Jeffrey Gerlach <jchelem@gmail.com>:
>Does sourdough normally rise more than 2X? I poked the dough and it
>appeared ready to bake, but the baked loaf was very dense on the
>bottom, which I think was an indication that it could have used more
>time. Any thoughts?
You need to learn to trust yourself. How does the dough feel? Has
it risen as far as it should? As far as it can? Touch the
dough. Some people gently poke the dough with their fingertips and
see how the dough reacts - the poke should be gentle and no more than
1/4 to 1/2 inch deep. If the loaf collapses, it has risen to
far. Bake the remaining loaves right away. If the indentions remain
in the loaf, it is probably over risen and needs to be baked without
delay. If the indentions slowly spring back, it's probably close to
right. If the indentions spring back, the dough isn't ready yet.
Other people gently lay their hand on the dough to feel the tension
of the dough. This is less likely to lead to a collapsed loaf than poking it.
Both methods require practice. The dough acted, or felt, like this
and the loaf turned out like that. Let's let the loaf go further, or
not as far, next time and see what the results are.
If you are looking for a loaf that opens gloriously when you slash
and bake it, the oven spring that allows that to happen occurs when
the loaf is somewhat under risen. When a loaf is fully, or over,
risen you won't get much, if any, oven spring. The French feel that
an excess of oven spring indicates the loaf should have been allowed
to rise longer - a lot of a bread's taste comes from fermentation, or
rising, and an under risen loaf has been short changed in that
regard. What's too much? What's too little? It's a matter of
taste. Your taste.
Some sourdoughs will rise 4x. However, determining when a dough has
doubled, trippled or quadrupled can be tricky. With a loaf in a pan,
things are fairly straight forward. When it rises from 2 to 4" high,
it's probably doubled. With a free form loaf, things aren't as
simple. Most free form loaves tend to spread out as well as rise
up. So, there is movement in three dimensions, not just along the
vertical axis. If the dough is twice as long, twice as wide and
twice as high, it's 8x larger.... give or take a bit.
Some people put a dough ball in a graduated measuring cup. When it
goes from 2 to 4 ounces, it has doubled. When it hits 6, it's
tripled. When it fills the 8oz cup, it's quadrupled.
To some extent, the bottom of the loaf will be denser than the
top. The bottom of the loaf is supporting the top and being
compressed by it. The top is free to fly away (please excuse the
poetic license). The question is one of degree.
Loaf forming can also be a factor, but this note is getting too long already.
>Does anyone know what internal temperature a sourdough loaf should
>reach? My loaves both registered 190-195F but turned out to be a bit
>too moist, i.e. they could have used more oven time.
You have to learn to trust yourself. There's no divine edict that
bread should be 205F internally, or 195F. Typically, bakers suggest
that at sea level 205 is a good temperature to shoot for. At the
altitude where my house was when I put most of sourdoughhome.com
together (7,703 feet above sea level), 195F was more appropriate
since water boiled at 198F.
The point of measuring - and to bake at home - is to be able to
consistently make a bread that YOU like. Not someone who wrote a
book on baking, not a French expert who will never see or taste your
bread, not someone who put together a web site, not the people who
hang out in bread oriented mailing lists, news groups, or
forums. But YOU. If you think the bread is too wet, then bake it
longer and to a higher temperature.
Here's another tidbit. Different breads can be done at different
internal temperatures.
Keep notes. "I baked the 1 1/2 pound loaf of white sourdough bread
for 45 minutes at 375F, it had an internal temperature of 195. The
crumb was too moist". Use that information to track where you want
to be and your approach to where you want to be.
Maybe 450F would work better for you. Maybe 210F as an internal
temperature would work better for you. It's your bread. You get to
decide. Really. (Similarly, it isn't your recipe until you change it.)
>I was very pleased with the bread regardless, although it wasn't
>very "sour". Am I correct in thinking that the starter will become
>more sour over time, and that my not-very-sour loaf was due to a
>newborn starter?
There are many, many factors affecting the sourness of a loaf of
sourdough bread. While you can make sour loaves with Carl's 1847
Oregon Trail starter, it isn't easy as this is a fast acting and
fairly mild starter. Here are some factors -
Thickness of the starter - thinner (more watery) starters tend to be
more sour than thicker (firmer) ones
The flour - flours with more ash (mineral content) tend to make
breads that are more sour
Rise time - the longer the rise, the greater the sour
The starter - some starters are more sour than others.
Hope this helps,
Mike