Date: Sat, 3 Jan 2009 05:43:10 GMT -------------- BEGIN bread-bakers.v109.n001 -------------- 001 - Michael - Stoillen 008 - Jolie Siebold Zimmer - Authentic German Christstollen 013 - - Jewish Bread 014 - "Allen Cohn" Subject: Re: recipe secrets Date: Sat, 27 Dec 2008 11:33:02 -0500 (EST) I am true believer in passing on recipes and know no secret recipes. I suspect many of us have memories of relatives or occasions due to some food. A favorite of mine is my grandmother's stuffed mushrooms. Those seem to secure the oldest memories I have of her (she passed on when I was very young). I make these mushrooms often and for every special occasion. Anyone that comes to our house for a holiday meal knows to expect those mushrooms. And every time I make them it helps to keep those fragile memories of my grandmother alive. I freely share the recipe with anyone that asks. Of course I have to tell them why the mushrooms are special to me and that I hope they'll think of my grandmother whenever they make them. So not only does her recipe live on through dozens of people; the memory of her does too. The same goes for my gandmother's spaghetti pie. I'm an avid runner and when I'm home the night before a marathon I always make spaghetti pie. It's my favorite dish to carbo-load with and spaghetti pie has fueled me for some of my most memorable marathons. I'm sure part of that is the special memories. So while I can understand why businesses and some restaurants have to keep their recipes secret, I may never understand what a person or even a family has to gain by doing so. Merry Christmas and Happy New Year, Mike --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v109.n001.2 --------------- From: "mary.fisher@zetnet.co.uk" Subject: Re: Recipe sharing Date: Sat, 27 Dec 2008 04:57:48 -0500 Original Message: ----------------- >From: Corina Gaffney >Subject: Re: Secrets for Authentic Dresdner Christstollen >Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2008 11:04:02 -0800 (PST) >>While I am not willing to part with all of my secrets for an >>authentic German Christstollen ... >I didn't say I wasn't willing to part with all my secrets to ANYONE, >just not everyone on this list. Why not? The list is an interchange of ideas, if you're not benefitting from others' experience and you're not prepared to give freely of yours why be here at all? If you DO benefit from others' experience but won't share yours then you have a selfish attitude. It doesn't endear you to anyone. Mary --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v109.n001.3 --------------- From: Reggie Dwork Subject: a couple recipes to try Date: Thu, 01 Jan 2009 15:39:09 -0800 Sorry - the panettone recipe is too late for Christmas. Cornlight Bread Mini Cranberry Panettones * Exported from MasterCook * Cornlight Bread Recipe By : Serving Size : 9 Preparation Time :0:00 Categories : Bread-Bakers Mailing List Breads Eat-Lf Mailing List Grains Low Fat Amount Measure Ingredient -- Preparation Method -------- ------------ -------------------------------- 4 tablespoons unsalted butter -- plus more for pan 1/2 cup all-purpose flour -- plus mre for pan 3/4 cup sugar 2 cups yellow cornmeal 1/4 teaspoon salt 1 teaspoon baking soda 2 cups lowfat buttermilk 1. Preheat oven to 350F. Butter a 9-by-5-inch loaf pan; dust with flour, and tap out excess. Sift flour, sugar, cornmeal, and salt into a large bowl. In a medium bowl, whisk baking soda into buttermilk; fold into flour mixture. Fold in butter. 2. Pour batter into prepared pan, and bake until top is golden brown and a cake tester inserted in the center comes out clean, about 40 minutes. Transfer to a wire rack; let cool 15 minutes before inverting. Cut into slices, and serve. Makes one 9" x 5" loaf Source: "marthastewart.com" - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Per Serving (excluding unknown items): 269 Calories; 6g Fat (20.6% calories from fat); 5g Protein; 48g Carbohydrate; 2g Dietary Fiber; 16mg Cholesterol; 257mg Sodium. Exchanges: 2 Grain(Starch); 0 Non-Fat Milk; 1 Fat; 1 Other Carbohydrates. NOTES : This is a slightly sweeter version of traditional cornbread, making it especially delicious when toasted and spread with preserves. * Exported from MasterCook * Mini Cranberry Panettones Recipe By : Serving Size : 24 Preparation Time :0:00 Categories : Breads Eat-Lf Mailing List Holidays Italian Low Fat Amount Measure Ingredient -- Preparation Method -------- ------------ -------------------------------- 4 1/2 teaspoons dry yeast -- (2 pkgs) 1 1/4 cups warm water -- 100 - 110 deg 5 3/4 cups all-purpose flour -- divided 3/4 cup sugar 7 tablespoons butter 1 tablespoon orange rind -- fresh, finely chopped 1/2 teaspoon salt 2 large eggs 2 1/2 cups sweetened dried cranberries 1/4 cup crystallized ginger -- finely chopped cooking spray 2 tablespoons sliced almonds Dissolve yeast in water in a large bowl; let stand 5 minutes. Lightly spoon 1 1/4 cups flour into dry measuring cups; level with a knife. Add to yeast mixture, stirring with a whisk to combine. Cover; let rise in a warm place (85F), free from drafts, 1 hour. Combine sugar, butter, rind, and salt in a large bowl; beat with a heavy-duty stand mixer at medium speed until light and fluffy (about 3 minutes). Add eggs, beating until combined; beat in yeast mixture. Lightly spoon 4 cups flour into dry measuring cups; level with a knife. Add 4 cups flour to egg mixture, beating at medium speed until smooth. Turn dough out onto a floured surface. Knead until smooth and elastic (about 3 minutes); add enough of remaining flour, 1 tablespoon at a time, to prevent dough from sticking to hands (dough will feel sticky). Knead in cranberries and ginger until well incorporated. Place dough in a large bowl coated with cooking spray, turning to coat top. Cover and let rise in a warm place (85F), free from drafts, 1 hour or until doubled in size. (Gently press two fingers into dough. If indentation remains, dough has risen enough. Coat 6 (1-cup) muffin cups with cooking spray. Cut 6 (5 x 12-inch) strips of parchment paper; place paper in muffin cups to extend 3 inches from the top of the muffin cups. Divide dough evenly among the muffin cups. Lightly spray each muffin with cooking spray; sprinkle evenly with nuts. Let rise in a warm place (85F), free from drafts, 1 hour or until doubled in size. While muffins rise, preheat the oven to 375F. After muffins have doubled in size, bake at 375F for 25 minutes or until muffins are lightly browned. Yield 24 servings (serving size: 1/4 muffin) Source: "Cooling Light, Dec 2004" - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Per Serving (excluding unknown items): 182 Calories; 4g Fat (22.3% calories from fat); 4g Protein; 31g Carbohydrate; 1g Dietary Fiber; 27mg Cholesterol; 87mg Sodium. Exchanges: 1 1/2 Grain(Starch); 0 Lean Meat; 0 Fruit; 1 Fat; 1/2 Other Carbohydrates. NOTES : This classic Italian holiday sweet bread is a cross between a coffee cake and dessert that is now served year-round the world over. Lining the muffin cups with strips of parchment makes it easy to remove the panettones after baking. You can also prepare this recipe in traditional muffin tins for a yield of 18; trim the parchment paper for the muffin cups to 2 1/2 x 6 inches, and shorten the baking time to 20 minutes. --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v109.n001.4 --------------- From: "Ulrike Westphal" Subject: Secrets for Authentic Dresdner Christstollen Date: Sat, 27 Dec 2008 11:17:50 +0100 Hi, As a German Food Chemist I have some notes about Stollen. Dresdner Christstollen, Dresdner Butterstollen and Dresdner Stollen are synonyms. And an authentic Dresdner Christstollen must be baked in Dresden. This was part of the unification treaty between the Federal Republik of Germany and German Democratic Republic in 1989. http://www.dresdnerstollen.com/ Since than Dresden means a "geographical indication", which says nothing about the composition. You find the minimum requirements of "Stollen" in the guidelines for baked goods in the German Food Code. There is always a basic recipe and every bakery in and about Dresden has its secret. If you want to try a good Stollen recipe (German food blogger approved), try this http://kochtopf.twoday.net/stories/5391387/ Ulrike from Küchenlatein @ http://ostwestwind.twoday.net --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v109.n001.5 --------------- From: Rebecca Finch Subject: Kneading with a KA Food Processor Date: Sat, 27 Dec 2008 04:41:37 -0800 (PST) >I'm wondering if anyone has ever had good luck mixing bread dough in >a food processor? I know the recipes are out there; if I recall, >some mentioned that you can't mix the dough too long because it gets >too hot and kills the yeast. Suggestions / recipes will be welcomed. I have a KA food processor that I use to knead whole wheat bread dough. I bake two loaves at a time using a modified multigrain struan recipe from Peter Reinhart's whole grain cookbook.It took me awhile to learn how to do it, but it works very well for me. In fact, I could not get my bread to raise very well until I learned not to be afraid to let the processor run for awhile. If you are using a KA processor, I strongly recommend NOT using the steel blade, but rather the plastic dough blade that is part of their kit. Aside from the fact that my steel blade broke when I was processing bread crumbs, I also found that when I tried the steel blade the dough never formed a ball, and it did not raise very well even when I finished the kneading on the bread board. When I use the plastic dough blade with enough flour, the dough forms a ball very quickly, which I then process for approximately 45 seconds. Contrary to all the warnings about the dough heating up, I have not found that to be a problem. If anything, I was under processing the dough when I first started because I was afraid of that. Though I mix up soaker and biga for two loaves at the same time, I process ingredients for one loaf at a time. I add the flour first to the processor bowl, then the yeast, diastatic malt powder and wheat gluten (though the struan recipe is delicious without the additives, it never raises enough for my taste unless I use them). Then I add the soaker and the biga, the salt and sweetener and a cooked potato chopped up and start the processor. If I have the ingredients in the right proportion, the dough will clear the bowl within a minute or so. If the dough is too wet, I add a little flour just until the dough clears the sides of the bowl. For me the whole process of kneading in the bowl takes 2-3 minutes. I have to say that I will never buy another KA food processor again. When the steel blade broke, they told me they would not replace it because the model was not the latest one. I had just bought the darn thing at Macy's on sale, so naturally I was pretty steamed when they tried that on me. I told them I would go back to Macy's and write to Consumer Reports about my experiences, and that finally got them to give up a new blade. But the real problem is in the design of the steel blade. It is set into a rubbery plastic core, so if it catches on something, like the stale bread that I was processing, it will break. If you look at a Cuisinart processor, you can see that the blade is designed differently, is bolted over the plastic core, and looks much sturdier. However, I will probably never buy a mixer. I am quite happy with what the food processor does, and I don't do enough baking to warrant having a heavy duty mixer. Best Regards, Rebecca Finch --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v109.n001.6 --------------- From: teresag715 Subject: mixers Date: Sat, 27 Dec 2008 07:54:33 -0500 I have a Bosch mixer that I quite like for when I want to knead loads of bread dough. (It's been somewhat neglected since the advent of artisan bread in 5 minutes a day. . . but that's another story.) I also like that I can do double or triple batches of cookies in it. It wasn't 1,000 dollars, but it is a spiral mixer I think. I got it from Pleasanthill Grain (who have amazing customer service, I've dealt with them a few times over the year and they go above and beyond). Teresa --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v109.n001.7 --------------- From: maure Subject: Stoillen Date: Sat, 27 Dec 2008 09:14:21 -0500 Thanks for the posts remarking on the keeping secrets to the grave. Why would I even try a recipe when the sender has said that they won't reveal some of the secret whys and wherefores of the recipe? I really would be a waste of time! I did make Stollen this year and it did turn out to be the best I have ever made. I used Martha Stewart's mother's recipe. It really was good. MM --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v109.n001.8 --------------- From: Jolie Siebold Zimmer Subject: Italian Flour: Tipo 00 Date: Sat, 27 Dec 2008 06:23:04 -0800 (PST) My daughter married an Italian and lives in Italy. She uses Tipo 00 Farina di Grano Tenero to bake with and her mother-in-law makes pasta from it as well. I would love to know the difference between this and other Italian flours and how it compares to our flours. We visit her every year and I would bring some back if I understood exactly what it is as what it is good--or better--for. Thanks much! By the way, I, too, cannot fathom why people don't want to share recipes!! Jolie Zimmer --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v109.n001.9 --------------- From: "Werner Gansz" Subject: Re: Mixing and Kneading with Food Processors Date: Sat, 27 Dec 2008 10:36:05 -0500 I've used a food processor many times, especially for pizza dough but I no longer use it. I now make very soft, wet dough for almost all my breads and pizzas and the food processor does not work well on soft or wet dough. 1. Three or four cups of flour are about the limit for most food processors. Start with a 3 cup batch and see how your food processor handles it. The end result should be a firm dough. Wet dough gets sucked under the blade and between the blade and turning post. It also won't form a ball. 2. There is always a discussion about whether to use the metal or plastic blade for kneading. The purpose of kneading is to build an interconnected gluten network so it seems to me the metal blade would chop through the gluten network as it rotates through the dough. Also I worried that the cutting action of the metal blade would heat the dough more so I always used the plastic blade. 3. Add one or two ice cubes to your liquid measuring cup BEFORE adding and measuring the water. The volume difference between ice and water is trivial for baking purposes. (Or weigh the ice and water). Pour off a small amount (1/4 cup) of the ice water and heat to approx. 100 F and dissolve the yeast in the warmed water. Even instant yeast should be dissolved in the warm water rather than relying on it dissolving in ice water. 4. After 5 minutes pour the dissolved yeast mixture back into the ice water. Wait for the ice to melt completely. Once activated, dry or instant yeast will not be affected by the ice water. 5. Mix the dry ingredients (flour, salt, etc) in the processor by pulsing. 6. Turn the processor on and pour the wet mix slowly though the pour spout. In a few seconds the dough will start to form a ball. After 20 or 30 seconds most of the dough will be incorporated into the dough ball and it will start to rotate around the bowl. STOP ! 7. The dough should still be cool to the touch. Let the dough hydrate for 15-20 minutes. Firm dough take longer to hydrate. 8. Run the processor for 20 to 30 seconds to knead. The dough ball will now be warm. If you have a thermometer, measure the dough. You would like the dough to not get warmer than 78 F. 9. Knead by hand for a few minutes to build a unified structure into the dough. --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v109.n001.10 --------------- From: "Lisa Worthington" Subject: english muffins Date: Sat, 27 Dec 2008 10:48:03 -0500 I tried the recipe for English muffins that was posted here about a week ago and it was wonderful!!!! I have a child with allergies to corn, so no store bought muffins are OK. My husband said I could try the recipe and I bought the seminola flour and rings. Everyone said they were even better than the ones at the store! I am so excited to have such success right off the bat. Thank you so much for sharing! I am not a great baker, but I do my best. Lisa --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v109.n001.11 --------------- From: Ellen Lee Subject: Re: Stollen Date: Sat, 27 Dec 2008 11:35:40 -0500 Despite the tease, "While I am not willing to part with all of my secrets for an authentic German Christstollen", which I chose to ignore, I made two batches of the German Christmas Stollen recipe that was given a couple of weeks ago. Both batches were excellent and made nice gifts for friends and neighbors - and myself. I heartily recommend the recipe as submitted. It's good enough without the "secrets", so thank you to the person who gave it. Ellen --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v109.n001.12 --------------- From: Subject: Authentic German Christstollen Date: Sat, 27 Dec 2008 11:10:09 -0600 I have a question about the Authentic German Christstollen. It says "I only use my bread machine for kneading strollen." So I assumed this recipe was for a bread machine. I have a heavy duty machine that says it will take 3 or 4 cups of flour. So I put the 5 cups of flour the recipe calls for and no problems. Then when I went to put the 3 cups of fruit into the pan this big light started flashing and on the LCD there was a message are you kidding me. No way in hell are you going to put all that fruit in here. It overflowed the pan. I took it out and kneaded the fruit in by hand and it came out quite well, nice flavor, lots of fruit. But could you share the secret of how you fit everything into your bread machine? You have a supersize ABM? Or am I misunderstanding something? --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v109.n001.13 --------------- From: Subject: Jewish Bread Date: Sat, 27 Dec 2008 11:18:24 -0600 Laura asked about Jewish bread in Cuernavaca. We have a small Orthodox Jewish community. They all live in one large condominium. Most (maybe all not sure) live in Mexico City and just come here on the Holidays and weekends. (we are an hours drive from the city but the weather is totally different Anyhow there are no Jewish bakeries here. Its one of the things I miss most from Detroit, I have to make my own pumpernickel, rye, etc. And, to do that I have to import the flours from the US. I have a friend bring me down a care package from King Arthur every year or so. We can get bagels at Sams Club. And this German Restaurant imports German bread from Mexico City once a week, But that's it. So as to the bread. I have no idea, it's not Mexican. One of bakeries makes a round loaf that people buy and scrape out the middle and put cheese dip in it. But that's the closest to what you are talking about that I have seen. Maybe that's what you are looking for. Hopefully someone on this list has a recipe for that. --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v109.n001.14 --------------- From: "Allen Cohn" Subject: Re: recipe secrets Date: Sat, 27 Dec 2008 10:22:20 -0800 I was amazed when I started meeting professional bakers through the Bread Bakers Guild of America that they all were so willing to give away their formulas. Partially it's just because "bread people are good people." :-) But also, they knew that their own skill and personal touch made a huge difference in how the product comes out. So they knew that even if they gave away the recipe, they weren't really putting their businesses at risk. In light of this, I now find it amusing when people resist sharing recipes. Allen San Francisco --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v109.n001.15 --------------- From: lobo Subject: Re: recipe secrets Date: Sat, 27 Dec 2008 11:20:59 -0700 "Joan and the Butterfly Dogs" wrote: >We had an Aunt who made the most phenomenal home made cherry strudel >for the holidays. Mom could never get the dough recipe right. > >I remember my mother trying to replicate it dozens of times and it >never came out the same. The aunt give bits and pieces of advice to >mom on how to improve it but it was just never the correct recipe! It's not necessarily the wrong recipe in some cases: My MIL made beef stroganoff, and my husband said my version never tasted the same as hers. I even stood and watched her make it and wrote down every step and every ingredient. It still didn't taste the same. So I started experimenting. One night I added double the sour cream and more water and he said I'd done it! For some reason I've never understood, 2 people can take the exact same recipe and it will not come out the same. I have a knack for bread .... others try my recipes and get bricks. Lobo --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v109.n001.16 --------------- From: JMille2788 Subject: Passing on recipes Date: Sat, 27 Dec 2008 10:44:33 -0800 I don't understand the people who say, "That recipe is a family secret." Unless you are planning to use them to open a mediocre food franchise like KFC then by all means pass along those recipes to anyone who will listen. I have always felt sharing recipes is a path to a form of immortality. If someone continues to use, share or improve your recipe then a part of you continues to live on. One of my wife's favorite possessions is a card file of old, discolored, food stained recipes her mother used. She created a family cook book with many of those recipes and included color reproductions of the stained cards in the file with her mother's handwriting and her notes that often said, "Cook until done." Hardly a day goes by without using some tool, recipe, or philosophy her mother left to us. My own mother's recipes are best left alone as her interests were more in literature, religion, and community service. My wife tells the story of a neighbor who each year brought to the annual ice cream social a batch of heavenly lemon chiffon ice cream. When my wife at age 12 asked if she could have the recipe, she was rebuffed with the, "that is a secret family recipe" line. Then and there my wife decided she would share any recipe she had with anyone who would ask. It has always been my theory that the neighbor bought the ice cream and repackaged it for the social (my wife says that isn't the case). So the moral of my story is share and teach. It will help you live forever. I taught juggling for several years and told each student that they needed to teach someone to juggle too. I hoped that eventually my teaching technique would get passed along and I too could live forever through juggling. JD Miller Tumwater WA --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v109.n001.17 --------------- From: Will Waller Subject: cherry strudel Date: Sat, 27 Dec 2008 12:57:11 -0600 Joan wrote: "We had an Aunt who made the most phenomenal home made cherry strudel for the holidays. Mom could never get the dough recipe right." Strudel is one of those things we thrive on in WI. I don't know what your aunt did that was special, but you might want to give Ruth Levy Beranbaum's strudel from "The Pie and Pastry Bible" a try. Her formula and technique are very precise. We get excellent results every time. Will --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v109.n001.18 --------------- From: D L Reynolds Subject: Re: Stand mixers, etc. Date: Sat, 27 Dec 2008 16:03:42 -0500 Just a note to thank all of you who have contributed to the discussion of stand mixers. I've learned a lot and I'm leaning toward the Bosch Universal Plus. I've been pleased to see that I'm not the only one who is dissatisfied with the KitchenAid (which I expected to adore). And thank you to Diane Purkiss for describing the KitchenAid as "a useless fashion item." Perfect! And re: "Authentic Dresdner Christstollen" -- Please, either share fully or not at all. While it's a little late for fruitcake recipes, the recipe for dark fruitcake in the Fanny Farmer Baking Book is worth a look. All the fruit contained therein is recognizable as fruit: apricots, dates, figs, prunes, golden raisins, currents, etc. My 70-year-old neighbor said it is as good as the fruitcake his Italian grandmother used to bake. High praise indeed. Wishing all a happy, healthy, and prosperous New Year. Donna Reynolds Woolwell Farm --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v109.n001.19 --------------- From: "Karen Thornton" Subject: Food processors Date: Sat, 27 Dec 2008 22:39:47 -0500 Hi, This is my first posting to the list although I enjoy reading it every week. The book "Secrets of a Jewish Baker" has the food processor recipe for each of its breads, along with the hand mix and dough mixing machine recipes. I love this book! Oh yes and the author is George Greenstein. Happy kneading! Karen --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v109.n001.20 --------------- From: Brian Rice Subject: Re: Viking Mixers Date: Sun, 28 Dec 2008 00:06:52 -0500 I, too, have a 5 qt. Viking mixer that I got from King Arthur two years ago. It is loud and the way the dough hook and mixing paddle attach to the head leaves them prone to falling out when you lift it up. But overall, I'm happy with it. It's given me no trouble whatsoever. Subsequent to getting the mixer, I also picked up a Viking food processor which I'm also happy with. -Brian --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v109.n001.21 --------------- From: Linda C Subject: sharing recipes Date: Sat, 27 Dec 2008 21:55:04 -0800 (PST) http://www.recipezaar.com/Dresdner-Stollen-Christstollen-342518 http://germanfood.about.com/od/baking/r/weihstollen.htm I'm sure there are tricks to making it that are passed down from generation to generation. I can see women sitting in the kitchen together, older women teaching the younger, as the Bible teaches us. I have a friend who never wanted to share a particular recipe with anyone... or any of her special recipes. She said she'd worked too hard to get the perfect recipe and anyone who wanted to cook well needed to put in the same effort. But... she decided to give this particular recipe to me... Funny thing is, I'd already found the exact recipe on the internet and made it well. "Nothing new under the sun." Since then, my dear friend has realized that I can share wonderful things with her that took me much time to learn and others in our 'circle' are sharing other wonderful things with her, too. So she is loosening up and we are all working together to "eat and drink and enjoy the good in all our labors". No judgement, just a thought. --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v109.n001.22 --------------- From: Dennis Foley Subject: Re: Food processor question Date: Sun, 28 Dec 2008 10:01:18 -0800 (PST) There is a book called _The Best Bread Ever_ by Van Over that has a full discussion and directions for making bread in a processor. It can make very good breads, and I have used his techniques many times, although that's not all I do, but it is worth getting. Dennis Foley --------------- END bread-bakers.v109.n001 --------------- Copyright (c) 1996-2009 Regina Dwork and Jeffrey Dwork All Rights Reserved