Date: Sat, 29 Nov 2008 09:36:27 GMT -------------- BEGIN bread-bakers.v108.n043 -------------- 001 - Judith Mayberry - Stollen? 006 - "Sandy Krause" Subject: Ina Garten's Easy Sticky Buns, and Electrolux Assistent DLX 450W Stand Mixer Date: Date: November 8, 2008 5:04:07 PM PST First, I looked through Barefoot Contessa: Back to Basics new cookbook (at Costco) and noticed this recipe for easy sticky buns made with puff pastry! The picture looked scrumptious, and you can imagine how good that will taste and how fast it is to make! Second, I bought the mixer known as Magic Mill or Electrolux several years ago, when I planned to make multiple loaves of bread at a time. Well, I never did, and the machine has been stored away carefully and probably was not even used once. There is a new 600W model just coming to market, at a huge price. But the 450W has been widely embraced for years. If anyone is interested in my machine at a great price, please e-mail me. I'm in San Diego, California. Mine is white in color. Here are two descriptions: --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v108.n043.2 --------------- From: Socko47@aol.com Subject: Distilled water Date: Sat, 22 Nov 2008 08:37:23 EST Mike brings up an interesting bit of information for me. I remember going to a King Arthur presentation where they showed their flour mixed with water and another brand of flour mixed in the same proportions. The other brand looked like soup while the KA was a dough; demonstrating differences in flours. I put that info along with what I had read about general purpose flour varying between soft wheat and hard wheat, depending upon the season, to always suspect flour as the source of problems. I have soft water, but good tasting, and have tried bottled water without any noticeable difference to me. And I have made bread in different cities without a problem. So, now I will add this additional bit of info into my wet computer and be aware of seasonal changes in my water too. This is why I always enjoy reading about other bakers' experiences; every "crumb" of information helps makes one a better baker. Thanks Mike, Jeff, and Reggie. Joe Salkowitz --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v108.n043.3 --------------- From: RosesCakeBible@aol.com Subject: Re: texture Date: Sat, 22 Nov 2008 10:15:44 EST what a funny coincidence that just today i posted about maggie's wonderful book (_Artisan Baking Across America_ by Maggie Glezer) on my blog addressing exactly your question about texture! yes--maggie's recipes often use a pre-ferment which gives you wonderful flavor and texture. the recipe i did just this week for ciabatta has huge glisteny holes and not the slightest bit pasty. warmly, rose (levy beranbaum) --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v108.n043.4 --------------- From: Mike Avery Subject: Re: stand mixers Date: Sun, 23 Nov 2008 06:00:35 -0600 As you commented, many people are less than happy with KitchenAid mixers. In a number of bread forums, people are more than upset with their KitchenAids. However, many of the people who were upset with their mixers seriously overloaded them, and ran them far too long. The three key considerations on load limits are 1) Their flour power rating - the number of cups of flour the machines can mix, 2) The 50% de-rating if you use anything but white flour (or, if your machine is rated at 14 cups and you make whole wheat bread, now it's rated at 7 cups), and 3 The batch to batch limit - they warn you may not make more than a certain number of batches back to back (usually 2). These limits mean that you can't go into a massive baking frenzy with a KitchenAid. Still, they are suitable for most people and most reasonable kitchen workloads. I have an ancient K45SS and wouldn't want to part with it. Having owned all the mixers I'll discuss below I have to say I think the KitchenAid is the best general purpose mixer if you can work within it's limitations. Limitations? Let's imagine that you want to make 10 1.5 lb loaves of whole wheat bread for a church dinner. A look at my formula spreadsheet suggests it would take about 28 cups of flour. If you have a big new shiny KitchenAid with a 14 cup flour power rating, you start by cutting the 14 in half for the whole wheat flour, giving you a rating of 7 cup. 28/7 is 4, so you need to make your 10 loaves as 4 batches of 2.5 loaves each. Ooops.... that doesn't make a lot of sense - what do you do with 1/2 a loaf? So let's make it as 5 batches of 2 loaves each. After each 2 batches of 2 loaves, you need to let the mixer rest for 45 minutes. So, you need to make 2 batches, let the mixer rest 45 minutes, make 2 more batches, let the mixer rest 45 minutes and make the last batch. (If it was white bread, you could make it as 2 batches, and do them back to back. It is worth noting that the mixer may not be the bottleneck in your kitchen. How many loaves can you bake at a time? It makes sense to fill your oven as far as you practically can to keep your energy bills under control, and you don't want to have the dough over rising while it waits for its trip to ovenville.. I can do about 6 loaves at a time in my oven. So, simplifying my work flow, I don't want to make more than about 6 loaves every 45 minutes. If you can live within the KitchenAid limitations, it will be a workhorse. If you need to make more bread on a regular basis, it's time to look at larger mixers. Hobart has larger mixers, starting at 10 quarts. While pricey, they are the gold plated standard. You can often find them used on eBay at reasonable prices. More reasonable alternatives are the Bosch and Electrolux mixers. I've owned both. The Bosch is reasonably priced, and it is good for around 7 pounds of any dough you can put into it in a batch, and can do back to back batches. However, I feel it overworks dough and that it's a pain to use and clean. We had one in our bakery and used it for small batches and test bakes. The staff begged me to get rid of it. I did, and replaced it with an Electrolux. The last time I looked, Bosch Mixers ran between $250 and 300. Despite my lack of enthusiasm for them, they have a loyal, and vocal, fan base. The Electrolux is, as are all Electrolux appliances, pricey. About twice as much as the Bosch. I find it much easier to use, and reports from Europe where it has been sold for a long time talk about people using their mixers for 40 and 50 years. It is a much better bread mixer than the Bosch. I can make about 10 pounds of dough at a time without any problems, and make back to back batches without problems. It is easy to use and clean. However, the manual is a total disaster and should be re-written for the American market. While it is easy to use, expect about a 2 week learning curve to feel comfortable with it - it is different from other mixers. Personally, I don't use the roller, just the dough hook. Sometimes I use the scraper. The dough tells me when to use the scraper. I have used it as a general purpose mixer and feel that the KitchenAid is better as a general purpose mixer than either the Bosch or KitchenAid. Cooks Illustrated didn't care for the Electrolux, but I have to disagree with them. It is a good general purpose mixer, and unrivaled for bread. I haven't used the Kenwood/Delonghi, but notice that the people on the Food Network have trouble with them on an ongoing basis. Things like Mario and Bobby Flay not being able to get the bowl out of the base, and picking up the whole mixer to pour out a topping onto a cake (if my pre-coffee memory is still working). Hope that helps, Mike *Bake With Mike * Mike Avery A Randomly Selected Bread Saying Of The Day: ?If thou tastest a crust of bread, thou tastest all the stars and all the heavens.? -Robert Browning --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v108.n043.5 --------------- From: maure Subject: Stollen? Date: Sun, 23 Nov 2008 09:57:43 -0500 Does anyone have a really good recipe for Stollen with marzipan? I have not found a satisfactory one yet. They are all too dry. I know it doesn't have to be that way Thanks Maure --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v108.n043.6 --------------- From: "Sandy Krause" Subject: RE: stand mixers Date: Sun, 23 Nov 2008 12:45:53 -0500 I have 2 Bosch stand mixers and love them both. I had a Kitchen Aid, and it sits on a shelf in my garage. I have the Bosch Compact and the Bosch Universal. I only need the Universal but found the Compact on sale for $50 and couldn't pass it up! If you can tell us what your daughter-in-law plans to use the mixer for we could give you a better recommendation. Sandy --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v108.n043.7 --------------- From: chasebusiness@sbcglobal.net Subject: stand mixer - Margaret Date: Sun, 23 Nov 2008 11:45:49 -0800 (PST) Hi Margaret, I used a KA 45 for years to make bread, etc and loved it, but I've been told they aren't as reliable as they used to be. I did wind up killing mine kneading bread and I did most of the kneading by hand. Since then, I have bought a Bosch Universal and absolutely love it. I do almost all the kneading with it and love the bread. You can make six loaves at a time, but it will also whip an egg white in the same bowl with no problem. I usually make 4 loaves at a time. Blessya' bunches from Linda chasebusiness@sbcglobal.net http://justastitchintime.blogspot.com --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v108.n043.8 --------------- From: "Joyce Esfeld" Subject: RE: stand mixers Date: Sun, 23 Nov 2008 14:00:44 -0600 My opinion on stand mixers: I own a Bosch concept mixer. There is also a Bosch Universal. I also own a Kitchen Aid Professional 5 that has a bowl that raises and lowers. I believe it is a 5 qt. bowl. A good size, but not the biggest. Prior to that I had the small standard Kitchen Aid. The Bosch can't be beat for yeast bread if you are making a recipe with at least 6 cups of flour. It is a "quantity" mixer and does an excellent job. Ingredients can be added easily because there is no mixer head in the way. I do not like it for beating egg whites because you need a large quantity to make it work. It has heavy duty cookie beaters available for purchase. I make very few cakes and cookies, so would be a poor source for information in that area. The Kitchen Aide Professional 5 seems to work for about everything. Being able to raise and lower the bowl helps tremendously in adding ingredients without missing. I would never own the "small" Kitchen Aid again. Even with a pouring chute (additional $) adding ingredients is messy. You are also limited in how much bread you can make and cannot add more than 1/2 cup flour at a time for yeast breads or it will sling it all over. I have no experience with the newer heavy duty stand mixers. --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v108.n043.9 --------------- From: Ed Wilkinson Subject: Re: stand mixers Date: Sun, 23 Nov 2008 21:18:34 -0800 I'm no expert, but every week for the last year I've baked three loaves of bread; two sourdough, using Peter Reinhardt's book Breadmaker's Apprentice, and one whole wheat loaf using Peter's other book Whole Wheat Bread, and I am very satisfied with my KA Pro 600. It's not the first one I had...I had to return my first one because the planetary post that holds the dough hook/whip/paddle came apart, a nylon bushing literally stripped out of the post and fell onto my batter, along with a bunch of black oil. I called KA, and got the best service I've ever had from a vendor, a box was shipped the next day and I had a new Pro 600 three days later. The only thing I regret is that when I bundled up the old supplies with the broken Pro600 I included the two-part pouring shield, which is much better than the horrible one piece they replaced it with, which sends flour flying all over the room to the point that I stopped using it. But I love my Pro 600. I make pasta, sausage, ice cream, etc., and my usual weekly three loaves and it's never let me down. Ed --------------- END bread-bakers.v108.n043 --------------- Copyright (c) 1996-2008 Regina Dwork and Jeffrey Dwork All Rights Reserved