Date: Sat, 10 May 2008 06:07:42 GMT -------------- BEGIN bread-bakers.v108.n018 -------------- 001 - "Allen Cohn" Subject: RE: Question about non-diastic/diastic malt powder Date: Sun, 4 May 2008 22:52:13 -0700 I'm no expert, but here's my understanding: * plants store up food for their "babies" (the germ within the seeds/grains) * this food is sugar * For efficient storage, these sugars are combined into starches * Howver, the germs (living part) can't use the sugars in the form of starches. But luckily the seeds contain the mechanisms for deconstructing the starches back into sugars. These mechanisms are enzymes. * These enzymes become more active when the seeds sprout, i.e., just when the germs need the food * Barley malt are barley seeds that have sprouted...and so their enzymes are active So diastatic barley malt is barley malt in which the enzymes to convert starch into sugar are active. It has a distinctive sweet taste (from the starches deconstructed into sugars). Non-diastatic barley malt is the same thing...but the malt has been treated (by heat?) so that the enzymes are no longer functioning. The malt still tastes sweet from the starch already turned into sugar...but it won't desconstruct any *additional* starch into sugar. Building on this, non-diastatic malt is a lovely addition to dough to add sweetness or color (such as when one adds it to the boiling water for bagels). Diastatic barley malt powder is a great addition to wheat dough to help it release its own latent sweetness (instead of "adding" sweetness). But it's not often necessary. Wheat flour already includes its own enzymes...but sometimes less than is desired (in technical terms, the "falling number is too large"). In those cases one can add some diastatic malt to correct this deficiency...that's why you'll often see malt powder listed as an ingredient on the side of most bags of flour. All in all, I doubt adding diastatic malt to the recipe below would help...but why not try? Order some from King Arthur online (or find it at your local beer brewing supply store) and let us know the results. (Also, Reinhart has a new version of this formula in his "Whole Grain Breads" book. Compare and contrast! Other readers, please feel free to correct my "layman's interpretation." But I think/hope I got the gist of it correct... Allen SHB San Francisco --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v108.n018.2 --------------- From: "Allen Cohn" Subject: RE: Windowpane test Date: Sun, 4 May 2008 23:00:17 -0700 From what I've heard/read/been taught, there's not just one windowpane test...it's really a scale. For simplicity, many bakers talk about three stopping points on that scale: 1) Short mix: the dough holds a windowpane...but it's quite rough and uneven. This is a good stopping point for doughs that will receive "stretch and folds" during bulk fermentation such as rustic loaves, baguettes and other high hydration breads. 2) Intermediate mix: the windowpane forms well, but is not completely uniform. This is a good stopping point for many doughs. This can take a few minutes at speed 2 then a few more minutes at speed 4 in your stand mixer. 3) Intensive mix: the windowpane forms, it can be stretched very thin, and its thickness is very uniform. This is a good stopping point for breads that you want to have very even, fine crumb (such as brioche). This can take 10+ minutes in your stand mixer. Allen SHB San Francisco --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v108.n018.3 --------------- From: "Diane Purkiss" Subject: Lard Date: Mon, 5 May 2008 08:08:31 +0100 Lots of English variety breads are made with lard - the best example I can think of is Kentish huffkins, which use lard to make an enriched and milky dough not unlike brioche in texture, but tasting very unlike brioche. There is also Lardy Cake, which despite the name is more like viennoiserie made with lard instead of butter - extremely flaky and delicious. I should think lard could be substituted for butter in any recipe. I'm keen to try some Trotter Gear in enriched bread, which is rendered pig's feet fat after they've been baked in Madeira for 3 hours. --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v108.n018.4 --------------- From: "Mary Fisher" Subject: Re: lard Date: Mon, 5 May 2008 10:37:27 +0100 My mother always used lard in her bread. The ritual was to put the flour in the pancheonm make a well in it and put the cut up pieces of lard round the edge of the flour. She explained that it would become incorporated in the dough as she kneaded - which she always did on her knees with the pancheon on the floor. That was my first experience of bread making, in the early forties, and the bread was always excellent. I've not followed her example because I like the crumb of a lean bread and sourdough even more. We buy a whle pig carcase at a time and butcher it, the fat is rendered to lard and used for pastry - it makes the best pastry ever! We don't have chips. Mary --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v108.n018.5 --------------- From: Dennis Foley Subject: Commercial bread Date: Mon, 5 May 2008 03:15:13 -0700 (PDT) If you can find Iggy's bread, that is one example that is worth comparing to. I'm in the Boston, MA area, and it's baked here, plus we have a few really good bakeries in the area, but Iggy's is the only that's widely distributed. Any other commercial breads people like? Dennis Foley Plumbing 79 Benton Rd. Somerville, MA 02143-1104 info@dennisfoleyplumbing.com www.dennisfoleyplumbing.com --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v108.n018.6 --------------- From: Mike Avery Subject: Re: windowpane Date: Mon, 05 May 2008 06:43:41 -0500 There is a lot of confusion about window pane tests. Some people say you should be able to read through the dough. That's not a test for bread dough. That's a test for lingerie. For a bread dough windowpane it's enough to be able to see light through it. Think low quality medieval windowpane, not modern glass. Mike Mike Avery mavery at mail dot otherwhen dot com part time baker http://www.sourdoughhome.com networking guru Skype mavery81230 wordsmith Once seen on road signs all over the United States: Listen shavers Knock on wood When offered Something 'Just as good' Burma-Shave --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v108.n018.7 --------------- From: "Gonzo White" Subject: Re: ovenspring Date: Mon, 5 May 2008 07:00:52 -0500 Oh yes, it's the altitude. I live up high and find that I always have to add more flour then is called for in the recipes. I moved from sea level to 5000 feet. --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v108.n018.8 --------------- From: "Lucien Hamernik" Subject: Lard in bread. Date: Mon, 5 May 2008 07:59:50 -0500 My mother did because her mother did because that's all she had. I liked to spread lard on home baked bread and sprinkle it with sugar for a snack after school--60 years ago. The author, Edna Lewis, recommends lard in all baking. Lucien --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v108.n018.9 --------------- From: Epwerth15@aol.com Subject: Re: Oven spring at altitude Date: Mon, 5 May 2008 10:37:03 EDT Linda, the lack of oven spring is undoubtedly your oven. I moved from sea level to 8500 feet and get a little more oven spring now than I did at sea level. I also went from an electric oven to gas and found that the heat in an electric oven is a little drier. Try putting a custard cup (ovenproof, naturally) filled with hot water somewhere in the oven when you put your bread in. It won't create steam, but it will add enough moisture to keep the crust from forming before the bread has had a chance to rise. Evie --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v108.n018.10 --------------- From: marcksmar@bellsouth.net Subject: The crumb Date: Mon, 05 May 2008 15:02:50 +0000 I make good tasting and toasting bread, but never get that soft "pully" crumb for sandwiches. Any suggestions? --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v108.n018.11 --------------- From: Marcksmar@aol.com Subject: fine crumb? Date: Mon, 5 May 2008 11:39:10 EDT How do you get a fine crumb in your bread? Mine are always coarse. Am I not kneading it enough or what? --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v108.n018.12 --------------- From: "Leigh Monichon" Subject: RE: malt Date: Mon, 5 May 2008 08:51:04 -0700 Hi Irene - Diastatic malt contains enzymes that break down starch into sugar; this is the form bakers add to bread dough to help the yeast rise and create a good crust. Non-diastatic malt has no active enzymes and is used primarily for flavor. Yes, you would likely see a bit of flavor enhancement if you put malt in the dough. I don't typically use it in my breads, but may try it again now since the topic has come up. Leigh --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v108.n018.13 --------------- From: "L. Hansen" Subject: Re: lard Date: Mon, 05 May 2008 12:16:11 -0600 That's all we ever used for shortening when I was a kid, and not just a couple tablespoons, but the whole requirement. Pie crust is heavenly made with lard. I don't know if my parents were ever tested for high cholesterol, but they lived to be 82 and 87. Lobo --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v108.n018.14 --------------- From: "Steve Gomes" Subject: exactly whennnnn Date: Wed, 7 May 2008 16:57:10 -0600 Now that I am using the slow rise method, putting the dough in the fridge over night and shaping it the next day I don't know exactly when to put in the oven. I like to make long Italian loaves. So I punch it down and take it out of the bowl and flatten it out and roll it up and put it on the cookie sheet seem side down and put the whole shebang in a big plastic bag that is real loose. I bake at 450F. I want to achieve the highest rise possible. my web site www.11954.com/gomes --------------- END bread-bakers.v108.n018 --------------- Copyright (c) 1996-2008 Regina Dwork and Jeffrey Dwork All Rights Reserved