Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2008 00:30:27 GMT -------------- BEGIN bread-bakers.v108.n014 -------------- 001 - WLHelms@aol.com - Rolls hard on the bottom 002 - Tarheel_Boy@webtv.net ( - Vital wheat gluten for Linda... 003 - - soft pretzels 004 - - Re: Steve's hard bottoms 005 - debunix I am so glad I listened to Carol about Peter Reinhart's method of >leaving dough over night in the fridge. It makes sense. That dough >is like a very thick batter and if you let it sit over night, >everything combines real nice. > >I made these rolls to accommodate half pound burgers. Now the >bottoms are a little hard. I would like a uniform softness all >around the crust. I have a gas oven and I start the rolls at 500 F >for 5 minutes and bring it down to 375 F and bake on cookie >sheets. What should I do? Steve, I would suggest moving your cookie sheet higher in your oven, the bottoms are simply baking too fast. --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v108.n014.2 --------------- From: Tarheel_Boy@webtv.net (Tarheel Boy) Subject: Vital wheat gluten for Linda... Date: Sun, 6 Apr 2008 10:45:33 -0400 I keep vital wheat gluten on hand for my loaves that contain whole wheat, rye and barley flour as these flours don't have as much gluten protein as do all-purpose and bread flours. As yeast creates carbon dioxide gas within developing bread dough, it's the gluten in the dough that traps the bubbles, giving your bread a lighter texture and firm structure. If the grain (or flour) that you start out with doesn't have sufficient quality or quantity of this gluten protein to start with, you will get "brick bread" -- good for doorstops but not for eating. The amount I use is 1 tablespoon per cup of whole grain flour. I keep it in my pantry in a "canning jar" that has a flip-top lid and rubber seal. It keeps for a long time. Although I don't keep mine that long, I am told it can keep for seven to ten years in a well-sealed jar. Good luck in your breadbaking. You will find very helpful people here so ask your questions. We all did in the beginning. Write to me personally, if you like. Bob the Tarheel Baker --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v108.n014.3 --------------- From: Subject: soft pretzels Date: Sun, 6 Apr 2008 12:53:40 -0500 Steve asked for a recipe for soft pretzels. I make this every once in a while and like them a lot. Soft Pretzels This is an interesting recipe. It looks almost like a bread recipe. But the boiling adds the pretzel flavor. These are really good but they don't keep well. I suggest you eat them quick. Great for a party, or watching a football game. 1 cup water 1 Tablespoon of Butter 1 Tablespoon of Sugar 3 cups flour 1 tsp salt 2 1/2 tsp yeast 1/4 cup of baking soda (for the boiling water,,do not to dough!! ) Put on dough cycle of a bread machine or knead by hand and let rise till double. Roll out into 10x16 inch rectangle. Cut into 12 strips 16 inch long shape into pretzel shapes, ( I just cut mine into mini bread sticks, much easier) place on 2 greased cookie sheets and let rise in a warm place for 15-20 minutes. In a pot bring 6 cups of water and 1/4 cup of Baking Soda to a boil. Boil pretzels 5 seconds on each side, put back on the cookie sheets. Brush with a mixture of 1 egg white mixed with 1 tablespoon of water. Sprinkle with coarse salt. (Pretzel Salt from King Arthur is great) Bake at 400 F for 9-10 minutes. Remove to a wire rack and let cool off a bit.. best eaten while warm. --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v108.n014.4 --------------- From: Subject: Re: Steve's hard bottoms Date: Sun, 6 Apr 2008 12:57:19 -0500 Steve says... "Now the bottoms are a little hard". He says he starts with the oven at 500 F and turns it down. When I make bread I start with a cold oven and let it warm up. I get great results that way. The bread and rolls tend to raise a bit more as they slowly warm up and the inside gets cooked. It sounds to me like the bottoms of your rolls are getting cooked faster then the insides and tops, SO lower the heat!! OR buy some of those insulated cookie sheets. --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v108.n014.5 --------------- From: debunix Subject: Re: boiling bagels with honey Date: Sun, 6 Apr 2008 11:09:35 -0700 >I heard that in Canada they boil bagels in water with honey added. >This sounds interesting. Has anyone tried this? I think the point of the usual malt is just to add some sugar to the crust to improve the browning when baked. Honey should be just as good as malt. --diane in los angeles http://www.well.com/user/debunix/recipes/FoodPages.html --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v108.n014.6 --------------- From: John Hileman Subject: In response Date: Sun, 06 Apr 2008 14:57:20 -0400 In response to Linda and her question about vital wheat gluten, I never use it. That's probably because I generally only make a couple of kinds of bread that don't call for it. Mostly, I make a regular sandwich / toasting loaf (I use the recipe on the regular King Arthur flour bag, but use King Arthur bread flour instead), and a variation that I made up, a cracked wheat loaf with whole wheat and molasses. I use my bread machine to make the dough and then finish it in the oven. I have been experimenting with no knead bread and have made variations three times. First I tried the almost no knead version that Cooks Illustrated published (didn't care for it much, although I have never made bread that good looking before). Then I tried the New York times version, but with the added salt variation. That was way too salty. Finally, I tried the straight New York times version and it turned out much better, although it could have stood another 5 to 10 minutes in the oven. For Steve, I love half pound burgers too, but have to admit I usually buy kaiser rolls at Wegman's market. I wonder if your rolls are too hard on the bottom because of the initial blast of heat. Have you tried baking them at a uniform 375 F? Happy baking, John --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v108.n014.7 --------------- From: Margaret Cope Subject: Convection oven for bagels? Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2008 09:32:27 -0400 Does anyone have any thoughts about baking bagels with a convection oven? I can do either with my ovens. Has anyone used that feature baking bagels? --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v108.n014.8 --------------- From: "Werner Gansz" Subject: Notes on Bagels Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2008 10:28:01 -0400 A few additional notes on the Bagel recipe I posted a couple of weeks ago. I just made the recipe again today and the bagels were terrific. 1. I live in New England where the heated indoor winter air is extremely dry. The flour I used was bought earlier this winter and was very dry. The dough mixed per the recipe was firmer than when mixed in other seasons. The only impact of that was that it took a bit of extra work to "seal" the two ends of the rolled dough when forming the bagel. The firm dough makes great chewy bagels. If you also live where the air is seasonally dry you might add an extra 1/8 to 1/4 C cup extra water to make assembling the bagel easier but it is not necessary. 2. How do you knead a firm dough if your machine can't handle it or you don't have a machine? Beat it with a stick! Use a "French" rolling pin (no bearings or handles), or a clean baseball bat and whack the dough 100 times (make sure your counter surface can handle it). Whack it hard 10 times, gather it together with a dough scraper and repeat 9 more times. It's fun to take out your aggressions on a defenseless piece of dough. 3. The recipe called for All-Purpose flour with the addition of Vital Wheat Gluten. I use King Arthur All-Purpose which is almost bread flour already. The added gluten dominates the texture so it really doesn't matter whether you use bread flour or a good quality all-purpose flour. 4. The posted recipe called for 2 Tb malt syrup in the boiling water. I use a 6 quart pot full nearly to the brim to boil the bagels. The recipe includes an egg wash after boiling. Its only purpose is to glue the toppings on. If you don't add toppings you don't need the egg wash. The color will come out a beautiful dark reddish- brown anyway. I tried Mike Avery's technique of letting the malt syrup in the boiling water be the glue that holds the toppings on but for some reason it didn't work for me. Most of the seeds fell off as soon as I started to handle and slice the bagels. I've never had much luck getting seeds to stick to baked breads without an egg wash. Any suggestions? Werner --------------- END bread-bakers.v108.n014 --------------- Copyright (c) 1996-2008 Regina Dwork and Jeffrey Dwork All Rights Reserved