Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2007 04:50:26 GMT -------------- BEGIN bread-bakers.v107.n001 -------------- 014 - "Mary Flack" Subject: No knead Bread recipe Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2007 17:45:31 -0600 After all the talk about the no-knead bread I decided to make it. So last night around 5 pm I mixed up the dough according to the video tape from NY Times. I did let it rise until 2 pm the next day and then folded it together and then let it rise another 3 hours. Baked it for 30 min covered and then for 15 min uncovered. When I took it out of the oven all looked wonderful. I checked the temp and it was at 206F. In my opinion it was a little doughy or should I say wet. So I would bake it another 15 min for a total of 30 min uncovered as the recipe stated. My family was in a big hurry for dinner or I would have baked longer. In my opinion it was bland and lacked flavor. I did use 1 1/4 tsp salt and 1 1/2 cups water. The crust was alittle tough also. Not like bread I bake that I knead. All in all my family thought it was great. So what can I do to get more flavor (The bread just tasted like white flour - just bland.) But the recipe did work for me the first time and had great color. Mary --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v107.n001.15 --------------- From: Anne Wallace Subject: please translate for home cook Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2007 10:54:23 -0500 Hello, I found the following recipe on the King Arthur Flour site under the section for professional bakers. Could anyone translate this recipe into simply home baker terms? Thanks, anne Annarosa's Ciabatta Dough Yield: 100# Prefermented Flour 30% Poolish Bread Flour (11%-12% protein) 16.85# 100% Water 16.85# 100% Yeast (compressed) 0.02# 0.10% Total 33.72# Final Dough Bread Flour (11%-12% protein) 39.33# 100% Water 25.28# 64.28% Yeast (compressed) 0.54# 1.37% Salt 1.13# 2.87% Poolish 33.72# 85.74% Total 100# Overall Formula Bread Flour 56.18# 100% Water 42.13# 75% Salt 1.13# 2% Yeast (compressed) 0.56# 1% Total 100 --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v107.n001.16 --------------- From: "Lloyd Davis" Subject: no knead bread Date: Mon, 1 Jan 2007 21:29:28 -0500 Some variation: I can't wait 18 hours, 1/2 tsp yeast for 8-10 hours works great, look for bubbles across the top: it has a red hued crust, great open crumb and delicious. I use 15 oz flour (all white or 2/3 white and 1/3 whole wheat), 1 and 1/2 cups water, 1 heaping tsp of kosher salt: the dough when completely mixed should be sticky but pull away from the back of a metal spoon. A well floured silpat mat works well for the folding (with a plastic dough blade) and after 1 and 1/2 hours proof (includes 30 min to preheat oven and pot to 450F), it is easy to slip your hands under the silpat and roll the dough into a pot. Since it flips upside down, I proof with the seams up. The dough bakes for 1 hr in the pot, why bother uncovering. I have noticed a higher rise if the pot is preheated rather than starting from a cold oven and pot, but there are dangers of burning and there is not that great a difference. This process has worded perfectly every time. I particularly like the whole wheat variation, it becomes a very dark loaf throughout the crumb. Lloyd --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v107.n001.17 --------------- From: "STEPHEN BLUMM" Subject: No-Knead & Misc Date: Mon, 1 Jan 2007 20:53:53 -0500 I would like to add my two cents to the discussion of Mark Bittman's no-knead bread article. I was excited when I read the article and rushed to try it. I have now made the bread four or five times. I realize that all taste is personal, but in comparison with breads made with a Poolish or pre-ferment, I don't think the no-knead recipe produces an interesting or complex taste. My taste expert, - namely my wife, - agrees. I am not about to give up loaves that require more effort, though I think I will try the no-knead recipe a few more times. I did find, as a recent participant states, that parchment paper helps a lot when making the no-knead recipe. I have been sending the no-knead recipe to people who like good bread, but don't make bread, and telling them that it produces a good loaf that is very easy to make. In Bittman's original article he said he would not buy a cloche because he avoids kitchen tools with only one use. Even though this is true, I would cast a strong vote in favor of the cloche. If you bake bread fairly often it is great. You get lovely crusts and really nice crumb. The no-knead recipe supposedly takes us back to the Egyptians, but the cloche definitely takes us back to the ancient Greeks, or at least there are vase paintings of Greeks and Romans using bell-shaped cloche-like devices to bake bread. When I first tried it I thought the no-knead recipe contained too much water, but this may relate to the flour I use (KA Bread Flour), its age, and local conditions. In general I have come to leave most of my doughs more moist and more sticky than called for in the recipes. Harder to work with but I think the results make the extra effort worthwhile. Stephen Blumm --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v107.n001.18 --------------- From: aqn@panix.com Subject: Re: No-knead bread Date: Mon, 1 Jan 2007 18:02:42 -0500 (EST) "D. Beeckler" wrote: >What is the problem: #1 I used rapid rise yeast, it works >everywhere else, why not here, AFAIK, the only differences between "instant" (a.k.a. "rapid rise") yeast and "active dry" yeast are: a. the amount of active yeast culture in a given weight of yeast instant yeast has 20% more yeast culture for a given weight, per "The Bread Baker's Apprentice"), and b. you need to "proof" active dry yeast (mixing it in warm water, to "prove" (hence "proof") that it's still active) before using it. >#2 How can you handle already risen dough and put it in a hot pan and Very carefully? :- If/when I try no-knead bread, I'd do the final rise on a piece of parchment, and slide the whole deal (parchment + loaf) into the pot at baking time. In my "normal" baking, I do the final rise/proofing of the loaf on a piece of parchment, so I don't need to pick up the dough, to minimize handling of the dough. >#3 Shouldn't there be some sugar or some other sweet in it. No. As many others have pointed out, very few bread recipes have table sugar in it. In any case, table sugar does nothing to/with the yeast & flour. Andy Nguyen --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v107.n001.19 --------------- From: Roxanne Rieske Subject: For those who need help w/ the No Knead bread... Date: Sun, 31 Dec 2006 12:28:36 -0700 I suggest visiting Rose's blog. She's had a wonderful 2 week adventure baking this bread, and it's well chronicled on her blog. She's perfected the recipe and the technique, and her tips and suggestions really work. She gets the best results and the best flavor with her Harvest King flour from Gold Medal. http://www.realbakingwithrose.com/ Roxanne Rieske --------------- END bread-bakers.v107.n001 --------------- -------------- BEGIN bread-bakers.v107.n002 -------------- 001 - "E.B. Wilson" Subject: No Knead Bread Date: Mon, 1 Jan 2007 12:18:54 -0500 I must say I am slightly bemused by the level of negative commentary posted for the No Knead technique. I have been baking bread for about fifteen years (including baking schools here and in France) always in pursuit similar characteristics to the bread found in Paris where I lived for seven years. The No Knead technique is without question the closest I have ever come. I have used the No Knead formula about fifteen times now (counting the two superb loaves I baked last evening for a black tie sit down down dinner for 20) with active experimenting on the margins to arrive at my own final formula. My protocols now are: (1) water, I have settled at 340 grams; (2) salt, just under a table spoon is best for my taste; (3) bake time, I use the full hour but during the last fifteen minutes with the cover off I place a disk of foil over the loaf to prevent a slight tendency to burn the high edges; (4) yeast, I use SAF from KA; (5) flour, I use French Bread Flour from KA; and (6) container, I find a smallish Creuset to be best so that the finished has a high rise. So you can see that I have not wandered far from the basic recipe and I urge others to do the same. The result is a thin, crunchy crust, great color, just the right moisture and wonderful taste and texture. Future quest: how to turn this formula into baguettes and rolls? -EB Wilson. --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v107.n002.2 --------------- From: Floyd W Foess Subject: No knead - more Date: Mon, 1 Jan 2007 08:41:58 -0800 For your interest (or not) I've been baking bread lately per Lahey's no knead procedure, with some interesting variations. I've followed his basic formula to the point of 'stretching and folding' the dough but at that point I put the loaf into a cold covered vessel (handling a 500 F container and dumping a lump of dough therein seemed to me to be haphazard at best and dangerous at worst, so I never tried it. This concern has been expressed by a number of folks) let it proof fully and then pop it, covered, into a 500 F oven for about 25 minutes, take it out and dump the partially baked loaf upright onto a sheet pan, return the loaf to the oven at 425 F and bake for another 30 minutes or so, to 210 F internal temp. I used various saucepans with lids, casseroles, etc., and they all seem to work equally well. I finally settled as best for my purpose a Corningware lidded casserole, the white one with flat bottom, straight sides and clear glass lid. I've used all white flour, 70% white/30% whole wheat, and a w/w sourdough variation. They all produced outstanding bread, very consistently, perhaps the best I've made; although my tasters so far prefer the sourdough with sunflower seeds. It also makes a handsome loaf, not at all like some of the malformed things I have seen photos of. Maybe next a sourdough rye? FF --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v107.n002.3 --------------- From: Maggie Glezer Subject: Rapid Rise Yeast Date: Mon, 01 Jan 2007 14:38:45 -0500 Happy New Year to all of you bread bakers! I have a little gift for you all: a bit of knowledge. There has been a lot of myth bantered about recently by posters to this list, and I thought maybe I could set the record straight. I give my yeast lecture every time I teach, and hope I can make a little headway here. RapidRise yeast is Fleischmann's trademarked name for their instant yeast. It is not a distinct type of yeast. There are four types of yeast available to bakers: cream yeast, compressed yeast, active dry yeast, and instant active dry yeast. The first--creamed yeast--is only available to large wholesale bakers. It is yeast in slurry form straight from the factory, containing all its original water. It is pumpable, so highly desirable for large commercial bakeries. Compressed yeast--the most active yeast available to home bakers--contrary to what people might be imagining--is creamed yeast with the extra water removed. This yeast needs to be stored between 33 and 40 degrees F and only has a shelf life of two weeks, so usually only larger bakeries use this type of yeast. Old time bakers prefer it for its amazing leavening ability. A little goes a long, long way. Active dry yeast is what most bakers have been using because it is so easy to store. It will keep, in its original packaging, for about a year at room temperature, making it a big improvement from the compressed yeast. However, it is the least active yeast--producing the least amount of gas, because of its large number of dead yeast cells--and must be proofed, that is, rehydrated in warm water, before use. It is a pain to use and a relatively large amount must be used for decent leavening, so often recipes with active dry yeast have a yeasty odor and flavor. To improve this yeast, a new type of cooler drying process was invented that resulted in a yeast product that had many more viable cells than the active dry and a finer grain, and so did not need to be proofed before use. This is instant active dry yeast. Rather than call this yeast by its name--instant active dry yeast--which is admittedly a mouthful, the yeast companies all use a unique trademarked name for their product. Fleischmann's calls their instant yeast RapidRise, and they also market an instant yeast with ascorbic acid included as an improver called Bread Machine yeast. Red Star calls their instant yeast Quick-Rise yeast. SAF calls their yeast Perfect Rise. All these yeasts have continued to be marketed in the three-envelope strips, with 7 grams yeast. However, because the yeast has more viable cells, less needs to be used to produce the same leavening action as the old active dry yeast. Thus, the yeast appears to act faster. What home bakers need to know is that they just need to use slightly less yeast when converting between recipes calling for active dry yeast to recipes calling for instant yeast, usually about 8% less. For instance, while 1 teaspoon of active dry yeast can leaven about 1 pound of flour for ordinary bread recipes, 3/4 teaspoon instant yeast is sufficient. Yeast amounts can and should be adjusted according to temperature and time. In the marvelous No Knead bread recipe, any brand of INSTANT yeast can be used. I wish you all a healthy happy New Year, with lots of interesting and delicious bread adventures! Maggie Glezer --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v107.n002.4 --------------- From: aqn@panix.com Subject: Re: no-knead sticking to the pot Date: Mon, 1 Jan 2007 17:44:07 -0500 (EST) I have not tried no-knead bread yet. I first need to find a big enough oven-proof vessel for the baking. I have a question re. the bread sticking to the pot: I have seen mixed reports of that. Most people seem to say that their bread do not stick. Most people also do not say what kind of finish their baking vessel has: enameled, non-stick, cast iron, stainless steel, ceramic, etc. I saw one person reporting problems with the bread sticking to the pot, where they end up having to scrape it out. Has anybody else experienced sticking problems? I saw one person mention lightly oiling the pot (Ellen Lee ). What kind of oil did you use? Wouldn't there be an issue with the oil smoking at 500-515 F (as called for in the video)? Thanks. Jesse Wasserman wrote: >And although I did cut back on the water slightly, because of the >humidity here, nevertheless the dough was so sticky that, after 18 >hours of resting, when I dumped it on the counter I had to add a >considerable amount of flour to even remove some but not all its >stickiness. Managed to get it on the floured towel with not much shape to it. That's about what I observed in the video on the NY Times Web site: the dough was super-sticky and stuck to everything. Andy Nguyen --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v107.n002.5 --------------- From: debunix Subject: Re: whole wheat no-knead Date: Mon, 1 Jan 2007 13:27:40 -0600 >nobody has reported success with 100% whole wheat, even white whole wheat. Depends on your definition of success, I think. I've made delicious bread with fresh-milled 100% hard white wheat, much, much tastier than I've gotten using all-purpose flour. I've had a hard time getting the central crumb to 210 degrees, and it's not been a super light loaf, but it does have a lovely crust, tasty crumb, and gets gobbled up reasonably quickly. I call that a success, although perhaps not everyone would agree. With my latest loaf, I went back to his 2nd column where he gave proportions of 430g flour and 370g water (I had been using 450g flour and 400g water, using my not-perfectly-precise rule-of-thumb conversion of 150g wheat before milling per 1C flour, and measuring the 1 5/8 C water as 400g on my scale). This loaf came out a little uneven, with smaller holds in the center of the crumb, and the crumb remains a bit wet, but it was lovely for breakfast this morning. http://www.flickr.com/photos/debunix/sets/72157594452135251/ --diane in st. louis --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v107.n002.6 --------------- From: RisaG Subject: No Knead Bread Date: Mon, 1 Jan 2007 11:17:56 -0800 (PST) I still haven't baked this but I have a = question - I have a Le Creuset Oval C= asserole - would this do for the dutch oven to bake it in? This is the main= reason I haven't made the bread yet. Have no idea what to bake it in. Otherwise I have all the ingredients. RisaG Risa's Food Service http://www.geocities.com/radiorlg --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v107.n002.7 --------------- From: "Lloyd Davis" Subject: no knead bread Date: Mon, 1 Jan 2007 21:29:28 -0500 Some variation: I can't wait 18 hours, 1/2 tsp yeast for 8-10 hours works great, look for bubbles across the top: it has a red hued crust, great open crumb and delicious. I use 15 oz flour (all white or 2/3 white and 1/3 whole wheat), 1 and 1/2 cups water, 1 heaping tsp of kosher salt: the dough when completely mixed should be sticky but pull away from the back of a metal spoon. A well floured silpat mat works well for the folding (with a plastic dough blade) and after 1 and 1/2 hours proof (includes 30 min to preheat oven and pot to 450F), it is easy to slip your hands under the silpat and roll the dough into a pot. Since it flips upside down, I proof with the seams up. The dough bakes for 1 hr in the pot, why bother uncovering. I have noticed a higher rise if the pot is preheated rather than starting from a cold oven and pot, but there are dangers of burning and there is not that great a difference. This process has worded perfectly every time. I particularly like the whole wheat variation, it becomes a very dark loaf throughout the crumb. Lloyd --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v107.n002.8 --------------- From: Jeff Dwork Subject: mixed-up item numbers in digest v107.n001 Date: Sun, 7 Jan 2007 20:49:56 -0800 (PST) Oops. Don't know exactly what went wrong, but... There were 14 items for this week's digest. Somehow, six of them got into v107.n001 with numbers 14-19. The other eight, plus this one, should be in v107.n002, numbered 1 through 9. But maybe this will also get mixed up. In any case, you should get all 15 eventually. Happy New Year, Jeff --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v107.n002.9 --------------- From: FREDERICKA COHEN Subject: doubling bread recipe advice Date: Sat, 30 Dec 2006 04:10:03 -0800 (PST) I have the opportunity to use an institutional mixer and oven. I usually use my KA stand mixer for bread recipes up to 6 cups of flour. I want to double a 5 cup recipe that calls for 2 Tbs of active yeast. (I would sub instant). Somehwre I read that , when increasing, never go beyond 2 1/2 Tbs yeast. Could someone help me out on this? If I just used my regular recipe and made two batches and combined them, what would happen? Many thanks for any help or direction. Happy New Year, Fredericka --------------- END bread-bakers.v107.n002 --------------- Copyright (c) 1996-2007 Regina Dwork and Jeffrey Dwork All Rights Reserved