Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2006 06:43:52 GMT -------------- BEGIN bread-bakers.v106.n025 -------------- 001 - Lorna Campbell Subject: Re: Bottled water Date: Sat, 17 Jun 2006 10:46:34 +0100 "bryan carmenati" wrote: >There are way too many 'acceptable' elements such as lime, calcium, >chlorine, etc. in U. S. tap water that will change the texture, >taste, baking qualities of a good bread. Bottled water is 'pure' >water without all the chemicals added Bryan, I'm going to respectfully disagree here. "pure" water as you describe it, without any chemicals in it, is known as "distilled water". It is completely tasteless, and most people don't enjoy it at all. Tap water, and most bottled waters too, do have chlorine added to reduce the risk of our picking up nasty bugs from drinking it. The chemicals in the water, far from being added, are there at source, dissolved in the water. Most European bottled water has a list of the dry content, and the taste of the water depends very much on where it comes from. Unless you live in an area with water so hard that your tea comes out black and scummy (Northern France is a good example) then I doubt you'd notice any difference in your baking. And frankly, even then I doubt it would make that much difference! You might be surprised to investigate the contents of your bottled water vs. tap water. Here in the UK research suggests that tap water is generally more "pure" than the bottled stuff, as the regulations are more stringent. HTH. Lorna --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v106.n025.2 --------------- From: "mike fuller" Subject: Airplane Dough Date: Sat, 17 Jun 2006 07:03:25 -0400 Joe asks if anyone has ever brought bread dough on an airplane. I once flew from Havana to Toronto with a half liter water bottle about 2/3 full of my Wilma hurricane sourdough starter. Then we drove together to upstate New York. I started feeding her upon arrival and made sourdough bread for weeks. Her mature, sophisticated flavor has graced many palates of the northeast by now, because I sent her to several bakers while there. I carefully took tablespoon samples of her, spread them on wax paper, let them dry and sent in regular mail. If anyone sees Wilma sourdough in New York artesan bakeries, now you know from where she came. Baked love, Mike in Havana mikesbread@gmail.com --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v106.n025.3 --------------- From: "Bev C" Subject: Bread tutor Date: Sat, 17 Jun 2006 06:30:22 -0500 Hi Pat, I'm certainly no expert when it comes to baking bread of any sort but most of our breads are at least 80% whole wheat. A couple of tips that might help: bear in mind my "facts" might not be scientifically accurate but the process works for me). 1. Whole wheat flour (especially it seems fresh-ground) seems to absorb more water than white flour ­ so you can start out with a wetter dough. Part way through the mixing cycle, let the dough rest for 5-10 minutes (a process called autolyse (I think). This resting period does amazing things for your dough. 2. I have found that adding a dough conditioner helps lighten the bread. I use a homemade mix made predominantly of granular lecithin, about one teaspoon per cup of flour. I also add vital wheat gluten (one tablespoon per cup of flour) to my doughs. I have occasionally forgotten to include these ingredients and it makes a world of difference. 3. In my opinion, weighing your homeground flour is crucial. Flour settles and after it's been ground for a while, a scooped cup of flour is much more than a measured cup. Plus if you consistently use the same weight of flour (and water) each time, your dough will be consistent. Try these suggestions and see how it goes! Happy Baking Bev Carney --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v106.n025.4 --------------- From: "Adele Klingberg" Subject: Re: Robin Hood Flour Date: Sat, 17 Jun 2006 08:00:00 -0500 Lois The last I check, Robin Hood Flour is not available in the US. If I remember you can get it in Canada, which is not too far from you. Adele --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v106.n025.5 --------------- From: "Allen Cohn" Subject: Re: Bottled water Date: Sat, 17 Jun 2006 08:00:56 -0700 I have heard, but cannot verify that using bottled water is a mistake because allegedly yeast needs some of those trace elements to thrive. Allen San Francisco --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v106.n025.6 --------------- From: Jonathan Kandell Subject: Re: Request for tutoring in whole grain bread-making Date: Sat, 17 Jun 2006 08:28:45 -0700 David, whole grain baking is definitely a different "animal" and using freshly ground whole grain flour is especially a different animal. Try posting this in a group such as , where they specialize in whole grain bread baking, including freshly milled flour. Many folks there (especially Tom Park, a fresh milled whole wheat expert) can help you for free! A quick answer to your question: time. I've found that if you use starters, poolishes and so on they break down the whole wheat enough it can be become lighter. Also, you need to change your mixing technique for fresh flour. (However, it will never be like a pugliese or baguette so you do have to adjust your expectations. Many people resort to the quick-n-dirty trick of adding gluten (or white flour) to their whole grain breads to get the rise up; I find that changes the taste so don't do it. Slashing and shaping are pretty much the same with ww and white. --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v106.n025.7 --------------- From: "Tom" Subject: Re: Bottled Water Date: Sat, 17 Jun 2006 10:19:23 -0700 Bryan wrote: >There are way too many 'acceptable' elements such as lime, calcium, >chlorine, etc. in U. S. tap water that will change the texture, >taste, baking qualities of a good bread. Bottled water is 'pure' >water without all the chemicals added Sorry, but this is just utter nonsense. Elements such as "lime, calcium" and all the other minerals that are in water are "in water" naturally no matter what the water source. Be it a deep water or a shallow water aquifer well, a lake, a river, a water reserve, a spring or a glacier (and even rain) - all contain many minerals. Water treatment facilities (be they for tap water or for bottles water) do not add any minerals to water. The only way to remove these minerals from water is to distill the water, but distilling once only partially removes minerals. To achive a 90%+ reduction in minerals one must triply distill the water. Water this pure is not recomended for baking, it is a very aggressive solvent and without the trace minerals can actually cause microoganisms to die as the elements in the microrganisms (like calcium, sodium and potasium - which are needed for any living cell to live) are extracted out. Deepending on the exact conditions this might actually kill the yeast in your dough. Yes, tap water contains a very, very, very small amount of chlorine that is added as a disinfectant and most communities add an extremely small amount of flourine (to prevent tooth decay). The trace amounts of these two elements in your tap water does not affect the taste of the water. Now here is a shocker for you, one fourth (25%) of all bottled water sold here in the states comes directly from the tap! Thats right, they turn on the city water facaut at their bottling plant and fill those bottles that you buy in the grocery store with plain old tap water. Some bottled waters do come from springs, but that does not mean they are "pure" - some of these sources actually contain more minerals than your tap water. There are very few regulations that govern bottled water. Bottled water is NOT required to be disinfected, no tests are required for E. Coli or Fecal Coliforms, they are required to test for bacteria once a week (whereas, tap water is tested hundreds of times a month), bottled water is NOT required to be filtered for pathogens or have a strictly protected source (tap water is), bottled water is not required to test for Cryptosporidium or Giardia viruses (tap water is). I know of one "Spring Water" bottled water source that was actually from an industrial parking lot next to a hazardous waste site....yummy. Now, don't get me wrong. Some tap waters or local well waters do at times have off tastes. These off flavors are mainly due to sulpher compounds in the water. These occur natuarally in some areas and may be extracted under different conditions throughout the year (this is why the taste of some water varies over time throughout the year). If you live in one of these areas and can taste differences in your water then by all means find a source of bottled water that you like the taste of and use it in your baking. However, if you like the taste of your tap water - save yourself some money and bake without concern. Chemist Tom --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v106.n025.8 --------------- From: Ritterhaus@aol.com Subject: Bottled water Date: Sat, 17 Jun 2006 22:54:11 EDT I have read numerous times that "some" bottled water is bottled directly from a city's tap water supply. So don't count on all bottled water to be "pure". Maybe Consumer's Reports has more info??? Ritterhaus --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v106.n025.9 --------------- From: Marcksmar@aol.com Subject: soy flour Date: Sat, 17 Jun 2006 22:58:19 EDT 1. Does anyone know if you can make a sourdough starter from soy flour? 2. How much wheat gluten must I add to a dough that has 1 1/2 c white flour and 1/2 soy flour? Mar --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v106.n025.10 --------------- From: "Schmitt, Barbara E." Subject: Question for Sariah Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 17:51:54 -0400 You say that your Bosch mixer fell on a hard tile floor and kept right on mixing. Inquiring minds want to know -- what happened to the floor?!? --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v106.n025.11 --------------- From: "William Potere" Subject: old names for bakers Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 12:25:04 -0400 I subscribe to A Word a Day and this week they are listing names which denote one's trade but have since lost their common use. I couldn't help but think that you bakers with the name BAXTER would like this one. baxter (BAK-stuhr) noun A baker, especially a female baker. [From Old English baecestre, feminine of baecere, from bacan (to bake).] Other names for bakers have been backster, backmann, becker, furner (literally, one who is in charge of an oven), and pistor (literally, one who pounded the grain: a miller or a baker). "Than all the baxters will I ban That mixes bread with dust and bran." David Lyndsay; Ane Satyre of the Thrie Estaitis; 16th c. Bill Potere 248-651-7838 Bpotere45@ameritech.net --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v106.n025.12 --------------- From: yguaba@yahoo.com.br Subject: Re: Mixer woes Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2006 00:46:57 -0300 Dear all, I just really wanted to profusely thank each and every one of you who replied to my post and shared your experiences and recommendations. I learned in a couple of weeks from you what would otherwise have taken me years, lots of money, and an untold amount of frustration. Before signing off, I want to comment on Karen's post: "Karen Ford" wrote: >As a product marketer in a large company, I sure would want to >see/hear about this kind of input if customers were having that kind >of problem with my products, as it will certainly begin to affect >the bottom-line.revenue. Although, I doubt KA is unaware at this >point if folks have been experiencing problems for this long! I have been in touch with Whirlpool (the company that owns KitchenAid) from the very beginning. They were actually quite good at showing sympathy, sounding concerned, and asking what they could do to make me happy. Here's part of the last message I received from a Whirlpool manager (which was also addressed to other Whirlpool people, hence the "we" in the message): >I believe it is time to recognize that there are probably many >consumers like Erik, but don't have the kindness nor the >faithfulness to the brand to communicate, they have just walked away >from the KitchenAid Brand. > >Erik, please try to let us know how we can still prove to you that >the KitchenAid Brand is more than just the products we put our name >on, it is about customer service and how well we take care of our >VALUED KitchenAid consumers. Unfortunately, in the end it's all empty talk, because what I want is a mixer that actually gets the job done without all the hassle I've had. But KA doesn't seem to be willing to make mixers as dependable and durable as they once were. Oh well, I'll start flirting with a Bosch... Cheers, Erik --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v106.n025.13 --------------- From: Tarheel_Boy@webtv.net (Tarheel Boy) Subject: Got bread? Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2006 19:12:24 -0400 Here's an interesting site... Bob the Tarheel Baker --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v106.n025.14 --------------- From: Mike Subject: Mixer Woes Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2006 20:44:02 -0700 (PDT) Hello once again. I've been following the debate about mixers and I too was in the same spot. I subscribed to a group that was as helpful as anyone could ask for. If you want some excellent info about heavy duty home mixers, look into this group: You will be glad you did, I was. I purchased the Magic Mill after many months of comparing everything out there for home heavy duty use. It came down to Bosch and the Magic Mill. I'm very happy with my purchase and have never regreted not buying the Bosch . I did consider Viking only because of their professional appliance reputation. But keep in mind, the mixer is a home unit not a commercial unit. Way too many bad write-ups about it so I stayed far away. Hope this helps. Good Luck! (Let us know what you decide on) Mike A loud mouth is often nothing more than an echo from an empty head --------------- END bread-bakers.v106.n025 --------------- Copyright (c) 1996-2006 Regina Dwork and Jeffrey Dwork All Rights Reserved