Date: Sun, 21 Aug 2005 10:10:30 GMT -------------- BEGIN bread-bakers.v105.n035 -------------- 001 - "Mary Fisher" Subject: Re: lean, indirect dough? Date: Sun, 14 Aug 2005 11:56:24 +0100 >The classic baguette is made from pain ordinaire, a lean indirect dough. That's useful to know, thank you. But what is a 'lean, indirect dough'? Mary --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v105.n035.2 --------------- From: Judi9826@aol.com Subject: Re: KitchenAid attachments Date: Sun, 14 Aug 2005 06:56:09 EDT Mike I have the meat grinder and use it regularly and I love it. I now buy my meat as chuck or whatever and cut off the fat as much as possible and grind my own hamburger and it is so much better than the lean you buy in the store. I would not part with this gadget ever. Judi --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v105.n035.3 --------------- From: paulzjoh Subject: KitchenAid stand mixer Date: Sun, 14 Aug 2005 06:03:20 -0500 KitchenAid stand mixer & attachments I have a 40 year old KA ( the good ones, when they were made by Hobart) the only attachment that was a failure was the pasta maker. Machine didn't have the power to process the pasta dough. ---- "I contend we are both atheists, I just believe in one fewer god than you do." Stephen F. Roberts --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v105.n035.4 --------------- From: "Arlene Klatt \(Baker_ia\)" Subject: Kitchen aid attachments Date: Sun, 14 Aug 2005 07:59:15 -0500 Hi I have a kitchen aid and have the food grinder and have used it very happily. I also got the Pasta maker plates that you put in the food grinder and have had very good luck with them too. I have not invested in any of the other accessories so far but these two have worked well. So hope this helps out Arlene in Iowa --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v105.n035.5 --------------- From: RisaG Subject: Cuisinart Convection Bread Machine Date: Sun, 14 Aug 2005 06:22:58 -0700 (PDT) I don't have that machine BUT I've had 2 others in the past. Some are not perfect at baking specific parts of the bread but the breads are great anyway. My Oster bakes pretty evenly but the Whole Wheat cycle doesn't work all that well. So, if I want to bake Whole Grain loaves I use either the dough cycle or the French cycle, which is similar in that it has more rise cycles. I don't know why you would exchange your machine (a Zo) for something lesser in quality, all because the top didn't brown right? I would try some of the other cycles and see if they brown right before doing that. My first machine made a horribly dark top so I changed the crust color to a lower cycle and it worked well. My second machine, a Breadman, made pretty dark loaves so I had to use the Light color for most. Even Medium was too dark most times. My Oster I use the light cycle for almost all breads as it gets too dark. Did you try this with the Zo?? If the top was too light, maybe you should've tried the Medium Crust or the Dark Crust to see the difference before returning. I hope someone has a Cuisinart Convection machine to hear about. I have a $40 Oster that I bought at Costco and I love it. It makes great bread. The only problem is it only goes up to 1-1/2 lb loaves. If I want to make a bigger loaf, I can make the dough on the dough cycle and then bake it separately. It also has a bake only cycle for those times when I make the dough somewhere else or I use the dough cycle, and then turn it off. A few minutes later, I use the Bake Only cycle (when I want Whole Wheat for instance). The most expensive machine I ever had was my DAK and my parents paid $120 in 1994. It lasted 2 years. I used it quite often. My Breadman cost $74 and it lasted one year - made horrid noises and then died, but it made amazing bread. So, I hope you can get a machine you are happy with, but make sure to test out the different crust cycles to make sure that it doesn't brown the way you like. I don't care if the top is lighter than the sides as long as the bread tastes great. Just my 2 cents... RisaG --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v105.n035.6 --------------- From: Corina Gaffney Subject: German pretzels or bretzeln Date: Sun, 14 Aug 2005 07:58:20 -0700 (PDT) For anyone who might be interested in trying the German pretzel recipe in the archives, I just thought I'd let you know of an accidental discovery which made my pretzels "the best they've ever been - better than in Germany" according to my mom and dad, who were born and raised there. Of course, a lot of you experts out there probably already knew what I accidentally found out! Usually, after my dough is finished mixing and rising in the bread machine, I immediately shape it into pretzel shapes, let rise, dip in the lye solution, and bake. Last time, I had to go somewhere unexpectedly after the dough was finished in the bread machine, so I had to take it out and refrigerate it for a few hours until I had enough time to shape and bake. What a difference! Great taste, great texture, just all-around terrific, if I say so myself! Of course, if I'd spent much time thinking about it, it wouldn't have been an accidental discovery, as I learned when I went to Germany a couple of years ago, a bakery there freezes the shaped pretzels before dipping them in the lye solution, so obviously the cold slow rise adds something to the flavor. Just thought I'd let you know.... Corina --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v105.n035.7 --------------- From: "Leigh" Subject: KitchenAid attachments/Accessories, ratings of Date: Sun, 14 Aug 2005 08:02:08 -0700 Hi Mike - I'd like to get the grain mill; haven't been willing to spend the money thus far. I do have the food grinder. I grind all the hamburger my family eats. I like being able to control the quality of meat and quantity of fat. I'm happy with it. It works well for other things but that's the main way I use it. I recently bought the sausage stuffer but have yet to try it. It is entirely possible that it is my technique, but I have not been satisfied with the pasta maker and plates. I ended up buying a separate appliance. The problem could well have been not quite properly prepared pasta dough, but I got a mess out the other side of the pasta maker. The pasta roller set looks promising; I just saw that for the first time recently. Having already bought the other appliance, I have not used it. Leigh --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v105.n035.8 --------------- From: Sonia Martinez Subject: Flax seed crackers Date: Sun, 14 Aug 2005 08:45:15 -1000 I got this recipe from a little flax seed booklet that was sent to me recently by friends. We made the following crackers and liked them. Sonia in Hawaii Flax Seed Crackers 1/4 cup whole flax seeds 1/4 cup ground flax seeds 1 1/2 cups all-purpose flour 1/2 teaspoon baking powder 1/2 teaspoon salt 4 teaspoons butter, softened 1/2 cup skim milk In a bowl of a stand mixer, add all ingredients except milk. With paddle attachment, mix at low speed until mixture resembles a coarse meal. Stir in milk and mix until mixture forms a soft dough (can be done by hand). Wrap dough in plastic and chill 10 minutes. Preheat oven to 325F Divide the dough into quarters. Turn out onto a lightly floured board. Roll out very thin to a rectangle about 1/16 inch thick. cut into 2 1/2 inch squares. Repeat with remaining dough. Bake 20 minutes until crisp and golden Variations: For Onion flavor: Add 1 Tablespoon powdered onion sour mix For Cheese flavor: Add 1 cup grated cheddar cheese For Italian flavor: Add 1 Tablespoon oregano and 1 cup grated mozzarela cheese SOURCE: Flax Family Favorites - Recipes and healthy tips cookbooklet Flax Council of Canada 465-167 Lombard Avenue Winnipeg, MB, Canada R3B 076 --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v105.n035.9 --------------- From: Popthebaker@aol.com Subject: Correction to "Bātard vs. Baguette" Date: Sun, 14 Aug 2005 18:55:28 EDT My previous post stated: "It (a Bātard) is between a Boule and a Bātard in form." It should have read: "It is between a Boule and a baguette in form." I apologize for the incorrect information. Pop [[Editor's note: fixed in the archives.]] --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v105.n035.10 --------------- From: Popthebaker@aol.com Subject: Diastatic Malt Powder Date: Sun, 14 Aug 2005 18:59:09 EDT Diastatic malt powder is essentially powdered form of malt extract which still contains the enzymes necessary to break down complex carbohydrates into simple sugars. Barley, or other grain, is soaked in water and then allowed to germinate. The germination process is started and at a point where the enzymes have formed but there has been no conversion of the starch in the grain. It is then dried to stop the enzyme action and is now referred to as Malt. To make diastatic malt powder the malted grain is crushed and added to water to form a thick mixture. The enzymes are then reactivated by the water and convert the complex starch of the grain into sugars that can be digested by yeast to make alcohol and carbon dioxide. The water is removed from the mixture resulting in either thick syrup or a dry powder. Diastatic malt powder contains the enzymes necessary for starch conversion. A different process yields a non-diastatic malt powder that does not contain the enzymes. The conversion process for grain, usually barley, takes around two hours, plus or minus depending upon temperature. The usual temperature for mashing is between about 145 and 155 degrees F. Enzyme action begins at the time the crushed grain is hydrated. In beer making the enzymes are denatured when the wort, or liquid drained from the mash, is boiled. In baking the object is not to convert the starch to sugars. The enzymes will break down a very small portion of the starch in the flour. The sugar of the malt powder provides the yeast a little bit of readily metabolized food during the early part of the first fermentation. The quantity of malt powder used is generally quite small, only a few percentage of the weight of the flour. It was the manufacture of malt syrup and powder that enabled a few beer breweries to remain in business during Prohibition. Unfortunately many others did not survive and the United States lost many great local beers. Pop --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v105.n035.11 --------------- From: "Ronald Ploude" Subject: Regarding Kitchenaid Attachments Date: Sun, 14 Aug 2005 20:03:20 -0400 I have the meat grinding attachment and the pasta plates for my Kitchenaid. Both attachments work great but the machine motor gets real hot when I use the attachments. I have the small Kitchenaid mixer. If you have the more powerful Kitchenaid, you will be able to grind meat longer or make larger pasta recipes without shutting the machine down to cool. I don't use my Kitchenaid for bread making, my Zo serves all those needs, but as a blender and all around mixing machine, it does a great job. Ronald L. Ploude --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v105.n035.12 --------------- From: Margaret Thatcher Subject: bread from microwave oven ?? Date: Mon, 15 Aug 2005 10:22:27 -0700 (PDT) Did anyone try to bake the bread in the microwave oven? Not that i am a fan or believe anything good can come out. It's just over 100 F every day and we live in a very small apartment with only a window unit AC and turning on the oven even for an hour makes the plase unbearably hot. I just cannot stand american bread as I came here only 4 years ago from the country of delicious daily breads - Poland. Any suggestions? --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v105.n035.13 --------------- From: helenes@GBRonline.com Subject: Re: Kitchen Aid attachments Date: Mon, 15 Aug 2005 18:35:24 -0400 Hi Everyone.. I have been a lurker to this list..I love cooking and baking. To answer to question that someone posed about the attachments to the Kitchen Aid stand mixer..I have only this to say...I got one..a K5A...for my first anniversary...in 1974. My mother and grandmother bought it for me, knowing how much I loved to cook. At that time, I got the food grinder, the food shredder, the juicer..as the years went by..I added others...the sausage stuffer...even a silver polishing wheel. I cannot say enough about this mixer, and the attachments..every single one I've ever used...and currently use...is still in great shape, works well..and given me and my family countless great meals...I'm not able to get the pasta attachments unless I replace the food grinder, they are set up to work with a newer model...so I cannot comment on those, except to say, that I would expect it to be of the same high quality as the rest of what I own. Thirty one years later, the motor is probably in need of a good tune up...and overhaul...there are some speeds that don't work..anymore....but it's still a powerhorse...and I wouldn't trade it for any other brand out there. In fact..the mixer has lasted longer...31 years...than the marriage did....(it only went 30..lol)...anyway...those are my thoughts..on this mixer...I only have to add that I did buy a zozirushi (sp) bread machine...and used it twice..it's still in the closet...because I love the way the K5A mixes and kneads the bread dough...and whatever recipe I use..it comes out much better when I mix it with the mixer, and bake it in my oven...than when I used that machine.... Thanks for listening to this long winded endorsement, but I hope it helps......: --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v105.n035.14 --------------- From: "Adele Klingberg" Subject: Cloche Date: Mon, 15 Aug 2005 21:38:51 -0500 I received a used clay cloche from someone who no longer has use for it. Does anyone know how I can obtain directions and recipes for using this? I have tried a few sources but have not gotten anywhere with my inquiries. Any help would be appreciated. Adele --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v105.n035.15 --------------- From: Bev Subject: Kitchenaide attachments Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2005 05:43:13 -0500 Mike asked about KitchenAid attachments for his new stand mixer. I have many of them and here's my review. Grain Mill: I used this for years on a 5 quart mixer and it worked pretty well - flour was considerably coarser than that produced by a WhisperMill or an Ultra Mill but it worked fine in my Panasonic bread machine. I have tried it with my newer KitchenAid (wide bowl) and although it "should" have worked just fine, the mill wobbled precariously although I am pretty sure I had it hooked in there properly. At $149, it's a pricey gadget as you can get an Ultra Mill for that price too. One big advantage of the KitchenAid Mill is that you can coarse grind or even crack grains. Can't do that with the Ultra or Whisper Mill, or if you can, I've not figured out how. It does make a lovely coarse cornmeal. IMO, there are 2 downsides to the KitchenAid mill: First is that you can grind only 8-10 cups at a time and then you have to let the machine rest for 45 minutes. I got around that problem by pre-grinding my flour and storing it in the freezer. Secondly, it is quite noisy and if there is a breeze, messy. It also causes quite a strain on your mixer (or seems to). The pasta makers: I've no experience with the pasta roller but I have had the pasta tube with plates - I used it several times and tried my darndest to get pasta that didn't stick together horribly. Never did get a successful product. EVER. Donated that sucker to the thrift store. Food chopper/Food Mill/ Sausage Stuffer: We have this 3-pack of accessories and pretty much use just the food mill. The chopper/slicer does work but I had some trouble with food flying everywhere and as I have a food processor, that seemed to do the trick better. The food mill we LOVE. We use it every summer/fall to make over 200 jars of tomato juice/sauce/puree and it works a top. I have never used the hand-cranked food mills but can't compare them to the KitchenAid. All you have to do with this mill is cut your food to the proper size for the (small) feed tube, and push it in. The machine does the rest. It does tend to spatter some and makes a bit of a mess but I imagine all food mills do that. We have used the meat grinder successfully but not often. And I must have misspoke - we don't have the sausage stuffer. NOTE: I see one listed on Ebay (today is Aug 16) for $98 shipped from a hardware store in central Illinois. It is the "new" style grain mill from KitchenAid which supposedly grinds finer. Might be a good compromise. This is the first I have heard of a new style grain mill but then I've not been in the market for one for years so haven't kept up to date. Hope this helps - happy shopping. Bev C --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v105.n035.16 --------------- From: WLHelms@aol.com Subject: pain ordinaire recipe? Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2005 15:24:34 EDT In bread-bakers.v105.n034, Popthebaker@aol.com mentioned the classic baguette is made from pain ordinaire, a lean indirect dough. Can anyone provide a recipe for pain ordinaire and the type flour a baguette is made? I haven't tasted a decent baguette since I left France in 1957. I've attempted to make them but without much success. There are no bakeries in my area that will even attempt to make them. I would appreciate any help in this endeavor. Wayne --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v105.n035.17 --------------- From: debunix Subject: Re: ground soybeans Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2005 14:49:55 -0500 >I have a bag of soybeans that I want to use, but read that it is >bitter flour unless you cook them in water before grinding (sounds >messy-) or grind it and then toast it in the oven. Can you tell me >what you've done with it? It sounds like a lot more work than wheatberries. I have done it mixed in with wheat at a proportion of less than 10% of the weight of the wheat, and a couple of time done perhaps 100g straight. It was just for an additive for wheat bread, never for use on its own, as it does not taste good nor is it particularly good for you if eaten raw (rather than cooked or sprouted). --diane --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v105.n035.18 --------------- From: "Vickie Caldwell" Subject: bread classes in Memphis, Tn? Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2005 14:51:11 -0500 Is anyone aware of any classes to learn to make bread in the Memphis, Tn area? I have called a lot of places asking but have only found one class on October 18th. Thanks, Vickie --------------- END bread-bakers.v105.n035 --------------- Copyright (c) 1996-2006 Regina Dwork and Jeffrey Dwork All Rights Reserved