Date: Sun, 3 Jul 2005 06:58:26 GMT -------------- BEGIN bread-bakers.v105.n028 -------------- 001 - NorthStarKennels@aol.com - Re: fallen gluten-free bread 002 - "Kyle" Subject: ciabatta bread Date: Sat, 25 Jun 2005 08:27:16 -0400 The key to those really big holes in ciabatta, or any bread for that matter is hydration. Wetter is better! Ciabatta has to start out almost more batter than dough. If you try and pick it up it should ooze through your fingers. Even at the end, after all of the turns, you should just barely be able to handle the dough. This stuff needs to be really, really wet. There are a couple of ways to handle this kind of dough. Some uses wet hands. I use copious quantities of bench flour. Try it again. When you think you have added enough water, add more! Hope this helps. Kyle --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v105.n028.3 --------------- From: JZingheim@aol.com Subject: No Holes in Cibatta Date: Sat, 25 Jun 2005 11:46:21 EDT You might try a couple of things. Increase the hydration by adding a bit more water to the dough. Ciabatta needs a somewhat slack dough so it can expand and form the air holes. Second, retard the dough overnight in the refrigerator right after kneading. Bring to room temperature and then proceed with fermentation. Try baking it on parchment. This makes sliding it onto the baking stone much easier. I will usually remove the parchment when I turn the loaf about 20 minutes into baking. (for even browning) Hope this helps Pop --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v105.n028.4 --------------- From: "Richard Walker" Subject: RE: ciabatta bread Date: Sat, 25 Jun 2005 12:17:54 -0500 Are you letting the sponge ferment overnight -- 12 to 24 hours? It needs to be very active to produce those holes. Richard L Walker Pensacola FL U.S.A. 32504-7726 --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v105.n028.5 --------------- From: "Pedro S. Arellano III" Subject: RE: artisan baking in electric oven Date: Sat, 25 Jun 2005 14:38:08 -0500 Of course you can make artisan bread in electric ovens. Would I rather have a top of the line Viking oven? Of course. Just make sure you have a good oven thermometer, but then again you MUST have a good oven thermometer no matter what. I baked bread in the worlds junkiest (coil on the stove top) oven in a college owned apartment. They had to have been at least 15 to 20 years old. I was in two different apartments and the temps varied from the "set" temp by anywhere from 25 to 150 degrees F. Yes, you read right: 150 degrees F. I made some fantastic breads in those ovens. Just use the thermometer and bake away. Okay, I do have a stone in mine also. Promise not to tell anyone? I didn't have a stone in my oven for my first two years of bread baking. Seriously, don't tell anyone - it's a secret. Just between you and me though? The bread I made in those first two years WITHOUT the stone still blew the bakery bread to smithereens. That bread made almost all Bakery bread look like weak girlie man's. Don't get me wrong I love my stone and you would get hurt trying to take it from me. 5'10 300 pounds and years of martial arts training and weight lifting :-) Conclusion, IMHO you can make FANTASTIC bread EVEN without a gas oven and baking stone. Your Fellow Bread Baking Fiend, Pedro --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v105.n028.6 --------------- From: "Pedro S. Arellano III" Subject: Re: ciabatta bread Date: Sat, 25 Jun 2005 14:47:14 -0500 Diane wrote, >I have been making the recipe for ciabatta bread from Peter >Reinhart's book _The Bread Baker's Apprentice_ for almost 2 years >now and have yet to achieve the holes he talks about. I haven't looked at the Reinhart recipe in quite some time, but my guess is you just need to take it easy on the kneading after the last rise. This question comes up in some form or another quite frequently. The holes are just air, if you knead the dough thoroughly after the last rise you will not get many holes. If you take it easy on the dough you'll get holes. That has been my experience anywho. Maybe the answer isn't that simple since the question does come up so frequently. I can only speak for my experience and I have baked at least a quarter ton I'm sure it's more like a half ton of bread in the last 7 years. Your Fellow Bread Baking Fiend, Pedro --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v105.n028.7 --------------- From: Frances Segerson Subject: Bread machine cinnamon rolls - corrected Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2005 14:39:52 -0700 (PDT) [[Sorry I left the yeast and the rising time out of the cinnamon rolls I posted last week. Thanks to Darren Hansen for letting me know. Here is the corrected recipe. Fran]] Thse are a little lighter (and smaller) than the Cinnabon, but I find them addictive. They are so much better than most cinnamon rolls. I adapted this from a Donna German bread machine recipe for Cinnamon Swirl Bread, and I have made it many times. Cinnamon Buns Makes 9 or 18 buns Ingredients (for 9 buns - double for 18): Dough 5/8 c Water 1 tbsp Margarine or butter 1/3 c Raisins 1 tbsp Sugar 1/2 tsp Salt 1 1/2 c Bread flour 1 tsp yeast Filling 3 tbsp Melted margarine 2 tsp Cinnamon 2 1/2 tbsp Brown sugar, packed 1 1/2 tbsp Chopped walnuts Graze 1/2 c Confectioners sugar 2 tsp Milk 1/8 tsp Vanilla extract Add dough ingredients to bread machine in order machine specifies. Process on dough cycle. As soon as kneading starts, make the filling ingredients in a small pan on low heat on top of the stove. Melt margaring (or butter), mix in cinnamon, brown sugar and walnuts. Remove from heat and leave to cool while dough continues to process. Once dough is complete, remove from bread machine. Place on a lightly floured surface, and roll into a rectangle about 1/8 in thick. Spread filling to within 1 inch of the rectangle edge. Starting with a long edge, roll up. Slice into 1 inch slices. Place them rolled edge up on a lightly-greased baking pan. Place them cut edge up on a lightly-greased baking pan. Cover and let rise 45 minutes to one hour before baking. Bake 16 minutes at 400 F and keep an eye on the oven. My oven is a little cool, so I use 400 F, but you might want to use 375 F. Remove from baking sheet. Mix glaze ingredients until smooth and quite thick. Add confectioners sugar or milk to adjust. Drizzle over baked rolls. Fran Segerson --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v105.n028.8 --------------- From: aqn@panix.com Subject: Re: ciabatta bread Date: Sun, 26 Jun 2005 22:39:42 -0400 (EDT) Dianne wrote: >I have been making the recipe for ciabatta bread from Peter >Reinhart'a book The Bread Baker's Apprentice_ for almost 2 years now >and have yet to achieve the holes he talks about. Sez who? |-) I don't know if given two ciabatta loaves, one with holes twice the size of holes in the other, that the one with bigger holes is necessarily the better one. My ciabatta loaves are airier than my French bread loaves, but they don't look anywhere near hole-y as the montrosity pictured in Reinhardt's book! |- >I stretch it and follow the recipe except for using the steam pan >but I do spray the oven with water like it suggests. You should try using a steam pan. That's what I do. I don't even bother with spraying anymore, since the volume of water in the pan (1 cup) is a whole lot more than I can introduce with spraying. Maybe you can try BOTH the steam pan AND spraying? The surplus of steam would slow the hardening of the crust and might help produce more oven spring in the loaf. >Does anyone have a solution? I use either Robin Hood bread flour or >Rodger's bread flour. Perhaps part of the problem is insufficient glutten development? How long do you knead the dough? I usually knead with the dough hook on my KitchenAid on setting #4 (middle setting) for 15-17 minutes. Andy Nguyen --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v105.n028.9 --------------- From: aqn@panix.com Subject: Re: artisan baking in electric oven Date: Sun, 26 Jun 2005 22:44:37 -0400 (EDT) Roxanne Rieske wrote: >You can bake artisan breads using a stone in electric ovens. Not all >electric ovens are alike, however. I have had a few that really were >shoddy. The last one I had baked everything really unevenly and most >of my breads turned out pale and rather horrid looking. My (electric) oven is uneven as well. It's hotter in the back than in the front. But I just rotate the loaf 180 degrees once or thrice and everything is fine. Come to think of it, I don't see how/why a gas oven would be less prone to producing uneven heat... Re. "artisan baking" in an electric oven: why not? It's a box that gets hot. Not really rocket science! Andy Nguyen --------------- END bread-bakers.v105.n028 --------------- Copyright (c) 1996-2006 Regina Dwork and Jeffrey Dwork All Rights Reserved