Date: Sat, 23 Apr 2005 09:44:54 GMT

-------------- BEGIN bread-bakers.v105.n018 --------------

    001 - dclancy64@aol.com         - mexican breads
    002 - Piper965@aol.com          - French Baggette
    003 - Haack Carolyn <haacknjack - proof box
    004 - Linda Badeen <linda.rose@ - Re: Semantics
    005 - "Barrie J. Lax" <barlax@s - Proving cabinets
    006 - Popthebaker@aol.com       - Iris: Proofing Cabinet
    007 - Tarheel_Boy@webtv.net ( - Re: A proofing box for Iris in Liverpool
    008 - Dave Glaze <daveglaze@sha - Re:a prover (proofing cabinet)
    009 - "Gerald Ulett" <tusko45@h - Proofing Cabinet
    010 - Larry J Renaud <ljrsphb@c - Home proofing cabinet
    011 - "Andreas Wagner" <Andreas - more steam...
    012 - lobo <lobo119@bresnan.net - whole wheat cocodrillo

--------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v105.n018.1 ---------------

From: dclancy64@aol.com
Subject: mexican breads
Date: Sun, 17 Apr 2005 07:55:53 EDT


hello fellow bakers, reading the post today, i smiled at the sight of 
"gonzo in mexico".  while i reside in Hershey, PA, (no, i never tire of 
chocolate nor the smell of it in the air) i have friends in mexico city, 
and have visited there a few times.  i'm enamored with their bakeries, in 
awe of the selections, and would love to try my luck at baking some.  i 
especially love the look of the bread (more of a roll actually) which i 
think is called a conch, like the shell.  anyone out there with some fab 
recipes?

thanks!
donna



--------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v105.n018.2 ---------------

From: Piper965@aol.com
Subject: French Baggette
Date: Sun, 17 Apr 2005 08:46:34 EDT


Hi,

Does anyone have a recipe that will make French bread like you find on the 
streets of Paris?  All of the French bread recipes we have come across make 
good bread but the bread is heavier and not crusty and full of holes like 
that you get in France.

Thanks,

Jim Winston
piper965@aol.com



--------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v105.n018.3 ---------------

From: Haack Carolyn <haacknjack@sbcglobal.net>
Subject: proof box
Date: Sun, 17 Apr 2005 05:50:57 -0700 (PDT)


Iris, you might want to take a low cost/low tech approach to see whether a 
"formal" proof box will make enough difference to be worth the research & 
investment.  I've been baking bread for many years (soon I'll be able to 
say many decades!) and have never found the need.  But I've been blessed to 
live in fairly modern accommodations which are toasty and not drafty.

The purpose of the box is to maintain even temperature & humidity around 
your loaves as they are in their final rise.  Consider taking a regular, 
corrogated-cardboard carton big enough to surround your usual batch of 
loaves -- maybe cover it with  shelf-liner or the plastic material on a 
roll, with release paper off the back -- pull off the release paper and 
then you can stick it on a surface...like your box! ... and make it 
decorative and easy to wipe.  While you'll have to estimate when to peek, 
this would protect the loaves as described and give you a chance to see how 
much difference you experience.

If you love the results, you could look in bakery-supply outlets, often the 
clear plastic lids used to keep the rolls & pastries fresh are often high 
enough to do this job.  Maybe your local bakery could include a lid for you 
in their next supply order!



--------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v105.n018.4 ---------------

From: Linda Badeen <linda.rose@comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Semantics
Date: Sun, 17 Apr 2005 09:06:53 -0400


I don't know about preheat... I haven't been able to figure out "hot water 
heater" either.  Why would you heat water that's already hot?  The thing is 
just a plain old "water heater."

I DID finally figure out why southerners call it an "ink pen" instead of 
just a "pen."  That's because with a southern twang there needs to some 
differentiation between pen and pin. Go ahead Tarheel; say them both and 
see if they don't sound just alike<GG>

And don't get me started on soda, pop, soda pop, coke, soda water.....

Linda,  who has spent half of her life in the south and half in the north

>From: Tarheel_Boy@webtv.net (Skallywagg ...)
>
>Now, is anyone able to tell me why we say we "preheat" an oven?  Does that 
>mean we heat it before we heat it?  Sort of like pre-boarding an airplane, 
>isn't it?  How can you get on before you get on?
>
>Bob the Tarheel Baker and part-time troublemaker  ;-



--------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v105.n018.5 ---------------

From: "Barrie J. Lax" <barlax@synapse.net>
Subject: Proving cabinets
Date: Sun, 17 Apr 2005 12:10:56 -0400


Iris ..

I'm not sure what you are looking for in a proofing cabinet, the attributes 
of professional cabinets vary.

I built my own out of plywood, just a plain box with full front door, small 
glass window in the door, with a thermometer attached against the window on 
the inside, all very inexpensive and simple. It could be lined with tinfoil 
but I didn't bother. Dimensions are (internal) 19 inches tall and wide and 
about 17 inches deep, pretty much a cube. A 100 watt long life light bulb 
supplies the heat, and a cheap ($7.00) thermostat sold for use with 
electric baseboard heaters supplies the control.

I use it to proof dough/bread, make Kefir and yogurt, and other things that 
require controlled heat. I could hatch eggs in it if I wanted to as well I 
suppose, all in all a rather useful thing that cost less than forty dollars 
to build out of scrap plywood. Any handyman could build it for you if you 
don't have the skills.

A glass of water supplies humidity if found necessary, and other 
refinements could be added.

bar.

Barrie J. Lax
Ottawa, Ontario
Canada



--------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v105.n018.6 ---------------

From: Popthebaker@aol.com
Subject: Iris: Proofing Cabinet
Date: Sun, 17 Apr 2005 12:36:47 EDT


A proofing cabinet should only be necessary if you need to ferment the 
dough quickly. The yeast  activity does decrease in proportion to the 
ambient temperature but that is not a disadvantage. The greater time will 
give the other critters (Acetobacter and  lactobacillus) time to work their 
magic as well as the enzymes in the dough to  work. This will result in a 
more intense flavor and improved crumb. The velocity  of the yeast activity 
changes by a factor of two for each 17 degrees F. (9.4 C.  if my math is 
correct) This means that the activity at 60 degrees F. will be half as fast 
as it would be at 77 degrees F. and twice as fast as at 53 degrees F.

If there is a need  to adjust the velocity of the fermentation it may be 
better to use the refrigerator rather than a proofing cabinet. This 
process, called retardation, gives time for the yeast to work and the 
ability to fit the process in your schedule. It generally takes dough about 
one hour to come to room temperature after retardation. It can then be 
rounded, fermented, and baked.

An inexpensive way to experiment, if you need to do so, is to place an 
electric heating in a cardboard box. Set it on a low setting and set a 
grate of some sort to keep the bowl above, but not in direct contact with, 
the pad. Stab a metal stem thermometer through the box to monitor the 
temperature. A box can be flattened and stored easily.

Pop



--------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v105.n018.7 ---------------

From: Tarheel_Boy@webtv.net (Skallywagg ...)
Subject: Re: A proofing box for Iris in Liverpool
Date: Sun, 17 Apr 2005 12:39:08 -0400


I say, old thing, what's a nice girl like you doing in Liverpool?  ;-)))
*
I don't use a proofing box, Iris.  I find that my oven, with the light left 
on, creates a perfect environment for my breads.  However, the article 
below (found on the internet) gives you an idea and also expresses my 
apprehension at using a styrofoam container.

Bob the Tarheel Baker
*
"A proofing box creates the perfect environment for leavening your bread 
because the temperature and humidity can be easily regulated. I found a 
portable metal oven designed for use on top of a woodburning heater stove 
at a junk store for $15. I use it primarily to leaven bread, but never for 
baking. It measures 18" high by 20" long by l2" deep, has a door with 
windows on the front and oven racks inside. It is just perfect for a couple 
of loaves of bread. I put a 60-watt light bulb on the bottom of the box, 
and this I control with an in-line dimmer switch outside the box. I also 
use an indoor-outdoor thermometer with a sensor inside the box. The beauty 
of the thermometer is that I don't have to open the door to check on the 
temperature. The dimmer switch controlling the light bulb quickly moves the 
temperature up or down. I think it's a slick setup. The bread dough must be 
covered when it goes in the box or it will dry out. I cover the bowl with a 
plate.

A proofing box should be made out of metal because it is simple to clean, 
doesn't easily allow the growth of mold and cannot catch fire. Check out 
used appliance stores, lawn sales, and the town landfill for a suitable 
box. Some bread books recommend Styrofoam coolers for proofing boxes, but I 
don't like them because Styrofoam is a plastic substance that could be 
perpetually out-gassing.

Your proofing box may also be an ideal environment to germinate flower and 
vegetable seeds and to culture yogurt."

 From Stu's Web Page found in a Google search.



--------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v105.n018.8 ---------------

From: Dave Glaze <daveglaze@shaw.ca>
Subject: Re:a prover (proofing cabinet)
Date: Sun, 17 Apr 2005 10:03:55 -0700


Iris

I proof my breads in an insulated wooden cabinet with two light bulbs 
attached to a thermostat.  I use two lightbulbs so when one burns out, I 
will still have some warmth in there.  Depending on weather, the 
temperature fluctuates about 8 or 10 degrees.  A more expensive thermostat 
would fluctuate less, but the one I use gives satisfactory results.  The 
breads are placed on the backs of  half-sheet pans (12" by 18") which are 
placed inside large, clear, food safe bags.  The openings of the bags are 
twist tied shut.  That way I don't have to worry about drying out.  The 
cabinet has wooden racks for shelving which I made myself from 3/4 sticks 
of wood.

Dave

Dave Glaze
daveglaze@shaw.ca



--------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v105.n018.9 ---------------

From: "Gerald Ulett" <tusko45@hotmail.com>
Subject: Proofing Cabinet
Date: Sun, 17 Apr 2005 11:08:01 -0700


Although I seldom use it for bread proofing, I have what is probably a 
perfect one which I built to use for making my own yogurt.

I took an old, non functioning microwave oven, removed the heavy electrical 
stuff and rewired the light bulb so that it was connected to the power 
cord. I bought a thermostat intended to be used for a reptile enclosure 
(got it on ebay), drilled a hole through the back of the oven cabinet so 
that the probe could be inserted inside and plugged everything together. 
The thermostat will control the temperature up to about 118 F. and 
certainly in the range for bread proofing.

If you want to find an old microwave, try a junk dealer. No one wants one 
for repair or normal use. If there is anything that I failed to mention 
here, email me and I will respond.

Jerry Ulett



--------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v105.n018.10 ---------------

From: Larry J Renaud <ljrsphb@comcast.net>
Subject: Home proofing cabinet
Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2005 09:36:53 -0400


To make a simple home proofing cabinet I do the following:
1. Use a box, any type will do, I use a Styrofoam cooler.
2. I cut out one side, and tap plastic curtain in its place
3. Turn upside down, insert instant read thermometer through the top 
(original bottom)
4. Lay top on counter, place heating pad on top, turn heating pad on to medium
5. Place cooling rack on heating pad.
6. Place bread in bowl, bowl on cooling rack
7. Place inverted Styrofoam cooler over

The inserted thermometer will read air temperature.
Use heating pad control to adjust temperature.
To create a humid environment put a cup of boiling water in the box too.

Larry 



--------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v105.n018.11 ---------------

From: "Andreas Wagner" <Andreas.Wagner@wanadoo.fr>
Subject: more steam...
Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2005 13:19:06 +0200


Hello everyone,

I've not experimented with steam myself as yet and reading the debate 
recently I'm not sure whether I will.  A friend here in France has just had 
a new kitchen installed, and a new electric Neff oven as part of 
that.  This oven seems to have two very neat features which may be of 
interest to us bakers - one is a proofing cycle, the other a special bread 
baking setting. I've not had a chance to look at the oven in detail, but 
basically for the proofing cycle you just pour a glass of water on the 
floor of the oven (it's specially shaped) and turn it on, it heats to about 
37 celsius and produces 100% humidity - this might be useful for Iris 
Goldman.  The door of the oven seems to be all glass on the inside and 
sealing quite well (this oven also has a self clean cycle based on 
water/steam).

Neff does have a website, but I've only found only one in German at 
http://www.neff.de - I'm sure they'd be able to let you know where you can 
buy their appliances, even if you write to them in English.

Happy baking everyone,
Andreas



--------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v105.n018.12 ---------------

From: lobo <lobo119@bresnan.net>
Subject: whole wheat cocodrillo
Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2005 18:39:58 -0600


A couple weeks ago, I made John's version of cocodrillo and really liked 
it.  I converted the grams to cups and it worked fine.  Last weekend, I 
decided to try putting whole wheat flour in it and baking it in pans 
instead of on a cookie sheet.  My changes for the whole wheat flour and the 
pans are in parens below.  The inside was very soft (not chewy as when 
baked on the cookie sheet), and it was sliceable for use as sandwich 
bread.  The whole wheat flour seemed to make no difference in texture, so 
I'll try that again outside the pans because I liked the chewiness better.


LOBO'S QUICK SUBSTITUTE FOR JOHN'S QUICK COCODRILLO SUBSTITUTE

Makes 4 small, 2 medium loaves, or 2 loaves in 3"x5"x9" pans

3  5/8 c. white flour (substitute 1 cup whole wheat flour)
18.5 fl. oz warm (30C) water  (I let the yeast grow a while in part of this 
with 1/2 t. sugar)
1 1/2 tsp instant yeast
1.5 t. salt

Mix til roughly combined, then let it rest 10 min. Beat on speed 2 on 
Kitchen-aid until the dough draws away from the sides of the bowl.

Tip the dough (it is glop) into a big Tupperware bowl and let rise, tightly 
covered, to triple. John says it MUST triple or this recipe will not 
work.  I have not tried otherwise.

Pour onto well floured surface, shake flour over, divide into 4 rough 
squares and plump gently with hands. Shake flour over loaves and leave 
until extremely puffy and wobbly, about 45 minutes.  (I let the whole batch 
of glop rise without dividing it at this point ... I should've divided it 
though.)

Heat oven to flat out max (which is 550 on my oven).

Free loaves and gently flip over, using floured hands (John recommended 
bench knife). Gently stretch to about 10" and onto greased cookie sheet 
(all 4 will fit on one).  Dough nearly stretches under its own 
weight.  Move quickly.  It will look totally and permanently deflated.  (I 
greased 2 loaf pans, divided the dough into 2 parts at this point (again 
.. I would divide them before rising the next time) and put it in the pans 
with as little handling as possible).

Straight into the raging oven, then after 10 minutes turn it down to 220C 
(425F).  Bake to an internal temp of at least 96-98C (204­208 F) if crust 
doesn't brown too quickly. (It nearly burned in the pans .. I covered the 
loaves loosely with aluminum foil).



--------------- END bread-bakers.v105.n018 ---------------



Copyright (c) 1996-2005 Regina Dwork and Jeffrey Dwork
All Rights Reserved