Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2005 03:48:05 GMT -------------- BEGIN bread-bakers.v105.n003 -------------- 001 - "Allen Cohn" Subject: RE: bagel help Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2005 18:50:59 -0800 Hi Carolyn, I've made the recipe twice (cinnamon raisin version) with good success. Here are the things I found helpful...not sure if they'll address your problem * To approximate the specified high-gluten flour, I added pure gluten (from the local health food store) to bread flour. Assuming that bread flour is 12.5% protein and gluten is 100% protein, and using some high school math, I calculated one should swap out a little more than a quarter of an ounce of bread flour for gluten in both the sponge and the dough. * I found it necessary to bake the bagels for 50-100% longer than specified. * I didn't think the bagels' texture was quite right until several hours of cooling/drying out (despite their small size). Hope this helps! Allen --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v105.n003.2 --------------- From: RCannetoAL@aol.com Subject: Maple oatmeal Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2005 18:02:29 EST Hello Fellow Bread Bakers! It is cold and snowy here in New England but I am in absolute heaven baking some yummy whole wheat breads. I found the best Maple Oatmeal Bread recipe! The bread has a great crumb, color and the aroma is pure heaven. I have made several batches and taken them to school for my second graders and fellow teachers. What makes this bread even more wonderful is that I discovered a local source for the real deal - yes! Maple syrup tapped locally here in my neck of the woods. The original recipe called for bread flour but I put in two cups of stone ground whole wheat flour and what a treat! The recipe comes from Bernard Clayton's New Complete Book of Breads. The recipe is on page 218 - my take on it was the 2 cups whole wheat flour instead of using all white bread flour. On this cold January month I have been looking over some of my old bread books that I have been collecting since the 60's! I guess I have always had a love for bread baking! Ciao! Rose p.s. if anybody wants the recipe let me know --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v105.n003.3 --------------- From: Diane Purkiss Subject: Re: Soggy bagels Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2005 08:03:35 +0000 Carolyn wrote: >I tried making bagels from the Bread Baker's Apprentice today. The flavor >was wonderful and the crust was nice and chewy. But they were soggy in >spots. I'm sure this is a problem from the technique (my lack of >experience), not from the recipe. Carolyn, I'm not really the person you want because this has never happened to me, but I have a few notes on bagel baking that might lead to useful thoughts. Bagel dough, properly made, is the stiffest dough most of us handle, and stiff doughs have to be kneaded for a longish time by hand or there's an unevennness that leads to dry spots. Did you use a stand mixer? If so, I find it's good to split a batch of dough in half and kneads each half for 7-8 minutes on its own - prevents mixer burnout and gives a much smoother dough. Then shaping is a challenge. The tip that really worked for me is to spray the work surface with a thin film of water before starting to roll the bagels. I also find it useful to follow Nancy Silverton and divide the dough into pieces, then let it rest before shaping. Finally, I find an overnight retardation in the fridge is key. Diane Purkiss --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v105.n003.4 --------------- From: Maggie Glezer Subject: Re: I'm back with another request! Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2005 16:09:00 -0500 Dear Fredricka, >Now I want to further enhance this bread by replacing the sugar with honey >but I have twisted my brain trying to calculate the liquid difference! > >The recipe calls for 1 3/4 cups of water and 1/3 cup of sugar. (7 cups of >flour total) What I have come up with is 3/4 cup of water and 3T of honey. > >But it doesn't seem correct. Please help! I read the above conundrum on the list today, and thought I should help: you're right, you're way off! Honey contains only %18 percent water, so for all practical purposes, you just treat it like regular sugar in recipes. However, honey is sweeter than sugar, which doesn't usually impact the flavor so much, but can affect browning during baking. Also, in general, when you substitute ingredients in recipes, you must use an equal WEIGHT of the substituted ingredient, without regard to volume. In your case, use 3 tablespoons honey (65 grams) for 1/3 cup sugar (67 grams) (so far, so good), but use the full measure of water--1 3/4 cup. You might need to add just a spoonful more flour, but nothing worth changing your recipe for. The honey is only adding a few teaspoons of water to the dough. When you bake the bread, you might find it browning faster than normal (although the recipe is not very sweet, so I doubt it), in which case you should keep the same baking time, but reduce the temperature 25 degrees F, tenting it with foil if it is still browning too much. Lots of luck with your baking! Maggie Glezer --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v105.n003.5 --------------- From: Dave Glaze Subject: Re: moisture content of honey Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2005 13:19:27 -0800 Fredericka Cohen wrote: >Now I want to further enhance this bread by replacing the sugar with >honey >but I have twisted my brain trying to calculate the liquid difference! Fredericka, The USDA hosts a nutrition site that gives the moisture content of several foods. The link to the site is: "Nutrient list " This will bring up a list of nutrients, the first one being "moisture". Clicking on the green "A" beside moisture will bring up a window which allows you to open up an Adobe Reader document that list all kinds of foods with their moisture content. Scroll to Honey and you will see the amount of water in honey. In this case about 17% by weight. The moisture content of granulated sugar is listed as containing 0% water. Converting everything to grams, I came up with the following: Your recipe calls for 396 grams of water and 66 grams of sugar. If honey is 83% sugar and 17% water, then your recipe, substituting the honey for the sugar, would become 356 grams of water and 79 grams of honey, or 1.5 cups water and 3.8 TB (11 tsp) honey. I hope my calculations are right. In the end, this might not work for all honeys as some seem to be thinner than others. But it is a start. Calculating granular items by volume is not very accurate. Hope this helps. Cheers, Dave --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v105.n003.6 --------------- From: RisaG Subject: Whole Wheat Bread, fluffy Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2005 18:56:42 -0800 (PST) The ginger powder is there, along with the ascorbic acid (Vitamin C) to enhance the dough - like Lora Brody's Dough Enhancer that KA sells. So I think that the creator of the recipe wanted them there for a reason - to give the dough a specific consistency or to give the crumb a certain flakiness or to make the bread keep better. You could try the bread without the ginger and see what it really does. I have a dough enhancer recipe that includes ginger powder in it along with the Vitamin C and some diastatic malt powder and acid whey powder (that KA no longer sells). I used to use the enhancer a lot, in doughs that had no egg in it. I haven't really used it in awhile. It seems to help with ABM loaves a lot. If you aren't making the bread in an ABM I would think you wouldn't need it. Make the bread without it and see what happens. Ginger is easy to find if you don't have any. They sell it in the supermarket. I buy it in quantity through either Penzey's or an Indian spice shop I go to. RisaG --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v105.n003.7 --------------- From: "Rachael Lohr" Subject: Bagel help Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2005 23:06:26 -0600 The Markhams asked for some help with bagels. I am known for my bagel making, and while I am I die-hard Reinhart fan (helped test recipes for American Pie - a very worthwhile addition to your collection!), I sometimes had the same "soggy" experience with his bagels. While not draining them well after the boil (do blot them on a pan lined with a kitchen towel) would do that, I'm pretty convinced it had something to do with the overnight in the fridge. I don't know why. I have another recipe that I use that doesn't do the overnight, taste really great, and have never had the problem with soggy spots. This is really flexible (see variations at the end!) and can be made in just a couple hours start to finish! Golden Egg Bagels (adapted from Baker Boulanger) 1 1/4 c. water 4 tsp. yeast 2 beaten eggs 1 tbsp oil 1 1/2 tbsp sugar 1 1/2 tsp kosher salt 4 1/2 to 5 1/2 cups bread flour Whisk together water, yeast, eggs, oil, sugar and 1 cup of flour. Stir in salt and most of remaining flour. Knead 8-10 minutes by hand - 4 minutes by stand mixer until dough is stiff and smooth. Be generous with the flour - you want this to be a stiff dough. Cover and let rest for about 15 minutes. Line a baking sheet with a kitchen towel and another with parchment. Preheat over to 425 F. Deflate dough if it has risen. Divide into 12 pieces. Form "roll" round balls (like dinner rolls shape). Let rest while you shape the rest of the dough. Working back from the first shaped ball, poke a hole in the middle and "twirl" on your finger to coax into the bagel shape. Let rise for about 15-20 minutes (should be slightly puffy). Boil a full pan of water in a large Dutch oven. Add 1/2 tsp kosher salt and 1 tbsp sugar (or diastatic malt power if you have it). Boil bagels for a couple of minutes turning over once. Let dry on towel-lined pan and transfer to parchment lined pan. Top with beaten egg whites and sesame seeds/poppy seeds/dried onion/what ever! Bake 15-20 minutes turning once when close to done (last 5 minutes). Variations (mix into dough in first "whisking" step except raisins/craisins - add those with last flour): Cinnamon Raisin: Add 1 tsp cinnamon, extra 1 1/2 tbsp sugar and 3/4 c. raisins Orange Cranberry: Add 3/4 c. orange marmalade, 3/4 c. "craisins" (dried cranberries) and 2 tbsp extra flour Chocolate Chip: Add 3/4 c. mini chocolate chips Lower fat: Use 2 egg whites instead of two whole eggs Use your imagination - this dough will accept about any kind of variation! Let me know if it works for you! --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v105.n003.8 --------------- From: Roxanne Rieske Subject: RE: ginger in whole wheat bread Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2005 07:54:14 -0700 I have tried whole wheat recipes that call for ginger. Personally, I hate the taste of it. I just leave it out, and I don't think I'm missing anything. Instead, sometimes, I add in about 1 tsp of finely grated orange zest per loaf. I find that adds a very bright flavor next to the whole wheat. Roxanne Rieske (Rokzane) rokzane@comcast.net --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v105.n003.9 --------------- From: Roxanne Rieske Subject: honey and water conversions Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2005 07:54:38 -0700 Very basic (if you want to get technical--you would use weight measurements: see the Bread Baker's Apprentice for exact weight conversions): 1 Tbs of honey will carry approx. 2 Tbs of water in it, so I would cut back on the water by 6 TBS to start with (1/4 cup plus 2 TBS). However, you might end up adding a tablespoon or two back into the dough while mixing if it seems dry. It's always better to cut back on the water and then add more in during mixing and kneading rather than having to add more flour--which can throw off the ratios for yeast and salt. Although, for that little amount of honey. It might not even make a difference in the dough. Where you really see the difference is when the honey is 1/2 cup or more. Roxanne Rieske (Rokzane) rokzane@comcast.net --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v105.n003.10 --------------- From: adam.newey@guardian.co.uk Subject: re: Crumpet question Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2005 11:12:40 +0000 "hghaynes" wrote: >Today I made the crumpets from RLB's Bread Bible. I got lots of bubbles >after I added the baking soda but the dough was quite, quite sticky and >didn't pour into the rings. I didn't get little bubbles when they >fried. What did I do wrong? I followed the recipe to the letter and they >taste good. Hello Holly, I'm pretty sure the problem is that your batter is too thick. The consistency should be a little thicker than double cream, ie easily pourable but not so thin that it seeps out from under the crumpet rings. Assuming that the pan is hot enough (it should be really hot!) the bottom will fry pretty quickly and prevent the batter from leaking. After six or seven minutes you should start to see those little bubbles on the top solidifying into little holes. So I'd suggest experimenting by adding a little bit more liquid. I guess the flour you're using could have some impact here too: I use a mixture of half strong bread flour and half plain soft (ie cake-making) flour. Hope this helps. best wishes, Adam --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v105.n003.11 --------------- From: RosesCakeBible@aol.com Subject: Re: Crumpet Question and frozen yeast Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2005 15:22:12 EST "hghaynes" wrote: >Today I made the crumpets from RLB's Bread Bible. I got lots of bubbles >after I added the baking soda but the dough was quite, quite sticky and >didn't pour into the rings. I didn't get little bubbles when they >fried. What did I do wrong? I followed the recipe to the letter and they >taste good. Thanks, Holly i'm quite sure that there was not enough liquid, since the batter didn't pour. the most probable reason is that different measuring cups vary quite a bit. i'm assuming you used volume rather than weight for the water and the flour. i'm glad they at least tasted goodo but you're right--the little bubbles are a major part of the delight of crumpets. also, higher protein flour requires more more water than lower protein flour to get the right consistency. on another note, i made my challah on thursday (it's now sunday) adding 16% of the weight of the flour in old sourdough starter (meaning i had not fed it for several days) in addition to the yeast. i left out the vinegar in the recipe since the sourdough acidity makes the dough so extensible. i'm happy to report that day 4 it is still moist which is amazing for challah! i'm also forwarding the following e-mail from a digest bread-baker who writes: >The whole thing was a total experiment so what did I have to lose. I >had dried yeast stored in my freezer with an expiration date of April 04 >and this is January 05. I used it in the recipe and believe it or not the >bread rose with totally NO problems. Isn't that unusual? from Rose: i''m using instant yeast store in the freezer that has an expiration date of july 03! if you store the bulk of the yeast in a larger container so you don't have to open it every time you need a little yeast it seems to keep for as long as 2 years! incidentally, for those of you who are members of iacp (international association of cooking professionals) peter reinhart has organized a terrific sounding session on yeast with the most knowledgeable yeast person i know, bill weekly who represents SAFand di holuigue, a terrific food personality from melbourne australia. (i'll be there!) --------------- END bread-bakers.v105.n003 --------------- Copyright (c) 1996-2005 Regina Dwork and Jeffrey Dwork All Rights Reserved