Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2004 01:11:50 -0700 (MST) -------------- BEGIN bread-bakers.v104.n001 -------------- 001 - William Waller Subject: re: Commercial flour what to buy... Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2003 12:18:18 -0600 Eric, I am sure that many readers of this group would recommend King Arthur flour. It is a superior product and the one I used extensively when I lived in New England. HOWEVER, if you live in the midwest, or, have access to Dakota Maid flours, I would give them very serious consideration. You will find the milling date printed on the top of every package. They have a web site for technical information: North Dakota Mill and Elevator was created by the legislature of North Dakota in 1922 in Grand Forks, ND to mill North Dakota wheat into flour. It is the only state owned mill and elevator in the United States. You will be amazed at how good this flour is. It literally is incomparable. You've got the best winter wheat agricultural sector in the US feeding a high tech, well funded, milling operation. As you work your way through Peter Reinhart's repertoire, set aside some extra time for the naturally leavened breads. If Peter hadn't started crying when he had his slow fermentation epiphany, he would have heard angels singing. It's that good. Will --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v104.n001.2 --------------- From: FREDERICKA COHEN Subject: KitchenAid Date: Sun, 28 Dec 2003 02:35:45 -0800 (PST) If you have "unmixed components" in the bottom of your KitchenAid bowl, your beaters need a simple adjustment. If you call the KitchenAid consumer line, they will tell you how to do the "dime test" to check the clearance. You may prefer the Bosch but there is no reason the KitchenAid shouldn't be available as well. Fredericka --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v104.n001.3 --------------- From: "Joyce Waits" Subject: Loaf-Size Bags Date: Sun, 28 Dec 2003 03:29:15 -0800 Hello All: This is sent if response to the request from Shirley regarding loaf-size bags. King Arthur Flour has both single and dougle loaf size bags at a very reasonable price. Check them out. Joyce in CA --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v104.n001.4 --------------- From: Wcsjohn@aol.com Subject: Disposable pans and oven temperature Date: Sun, 28 Dec 2003 06:48:33 EST Cheryl I use disposable, silicone parchment bread pans, very frequently, in a range of sizes and never even think about reducing oven temperature nor can I see any reason for doing so although, the pans being smaller than your normal size, you will need to reduce baking TIME. May I ask where you read this advice? Just so I know which bread writer is talking cr*p. And I would love to know their justification for this nonsensical "advice".g> Love John --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v104.n001.5 --------------- From: Wcsjohn@aol.com Subject: Glenn - heavy bread Date: Sun, 28 Dec 2003 07:00:03 EST Glenn There are innumerable possible causes of heavy bread. It would help in diagnosing your problem if you were to post details of a recipe that has produced heavy bread. Not just the ingredients but the method as well, in as much detail as possible. If you don't want to wait until the next digest, or you feel that the post would be too long for a public forum, you can email me personally. Love John --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v104.n001.6 --------------- From: fred smith Subject: RE: looking for loaf shaped freezer bags Date: Sun, 28 Dec 2003 08:00:50 -0500 Two possibilities: 1. I used to buy such bags in packages of 1000 from local plastic bag wholesalers. At the time I had several friends who also baked, and we'd each take 200 or so of them and it would last us a couple of years. 2. King Arthur's web site lists bread bags in packages of 100. they come in different sizes, I bought the "double" size bag last time, since I often have large loaves that don't fit in the single. ---- Fred Smith -- fredex@fcshome.stoneham.ma.us --------------------------= --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v104.n001.7 --------------- From: fred smith Subject: Re: Commercial Flour -- What to buy? Date: Sun, 28 Dec 2003 08:04:52 -0500 I did, for years, buy my flour at a local baker's supply wholesaler, who would happily sell to "civilians". They would even split a 50 lb bag of rolled oats for us small users. They sold an unbleached white named "Rex Royal", a product of General Mills. While I don't think it's as nice as, say, King Arthur's unbleached all purpose, it is nevertheless a decent quality flour. You wouldn't go far wrong if you could get it. Fred Smith --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v104.n001.8 --------------- From: "renzo_ri" Subject: Different Flours Date: Sun, 28 Dec 2003 09:13:16 -0500 Eric, I get all my flours from a bakery supply company, so it is always in 50 lb bags. I keep it in commercial-sized food saver containers purchased from a restaurant supply company. It is great fun to experiment with different flours and a range of protein. The best part of it is that I have never paid more than $12 for a 50 lb bag of flour, so the cost of this hobby is minimal. The SAF yeast is also very inexpensive--under $6 for 1/2 kilo. Some of the flours I have tried and liked are: 1. Bouncer [from Bay State Milling] 14.7% protein. http://www.bsm.com/ 2. Harvest King [from General Mills] 11.3-12.3% protein. (my favorite) http://www.generalmills.com/gmflour/flour.asp?type=Eharvestking 3. Sir Galahad (14%) and King Arthur Special (12.7%) [from King Arthur]. http://www.kingarthurflour.com/ 4. Miller's Choice (13%), Dakota Maid (13.2%) and Dakota Champion (terrific oven spring) [from North Dakota Mill] https://www.ndmill.com/ndmill/mill/bakery.htm Hope this helps. renzo --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v104.n001.9 --------------- From: Haack Carolyn Subject: bread bags Date: Sun, 28 Dec 2003 06:17:26 -0800 (PST) http://www.kingarthurflour.com/ Long-time readers may tire of the list's many references to the King Arthur Flour catalog, but they do have tons of useful stuff including the bread bags requested in the last list. I have used these bags for storage and for gifts, they are grand. Just note that you get a big stack of them, I once bought an order of every size and it took me quite a while to work the stock down to a reasonable level. --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v104.n001.10 --------------- From: "dontactlikejunome" Subject: Spelt Info Date: Sun, 28 Dec 2003 08:09:27 -0800 Spelt (Triticum spelta) is a distant relative of wheat (Triticum aestivum), and claims its origins in modern day Iraq. It has been written about as early as 5,000BC. It is a very nutritious grain, and has been used successfully as a wheat substitute for many people with wheat allergies. It is NOT gluten-free, however, nor is it a substitute for all people with wheat allergies. Some people with wheat allergies remain sensitive to such substitutes like spelt and Kamut. Spelt can be substituted for wheat flour in bread recipes, although the grain has a high water solubility, and so less water (up to 25% less) will be needed. The added water solubility also contributes to more nutrients being absorbed by the body. Spelt is quite high in B vitamins, is an excellent source of fiber, and is full of complex carbs, some of which specialize in assisting with blood clotting, as well as stimulating the immune system. And although spelt has a lower gluten content than does wheat (don't expect as large of a rise from spelt), it does have a higher protein content overall. Spelt typically has 10-25% more protein than commercially grown wheat strains. Spelt is typically characterized by a "nutty" taste. Hope this helps. (I did a report in high school about wheat allergies. This is what I can remember.) - Randy Clemens - Los Angeles, CA --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v104.n001.11 --------------- From: Epwerth15@aol.com Subject: Re: Butter Bell Date: Sun, 28 Dec 2003 11:13:47 EST To answer Joan's question about the Butter Bell....I've had one for over a year & love it. No more rock hard butter on warm, fresh bread. I don't refrigerate the butter in the bell at all, just change the water every 2 or 3 days, and it always stays fresh, even in the hottest weather. Evie --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v104.n001.12 --------------- From: "Sandy" Subject: re: butter bell Date: Sun, 28 Dec 2003 11:17:43 -0500 Hi Joan, I just got a butter bell for Christmas. I can't give advice on using it long term, but so far I love it! It does keep the butter at room temperature, soft and spreadable. Two things to note. You have to change the water every 3 days, and you are only supposed to use it for 30 days before you discard any unused butter. It holds the equivalent of one stick so I don't see this as a concern for my family of 5. Sandy --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v104.n001.13 --------------- From: Epwerth15@aol.com Subject: Re: buying commercial flour Date: Sun, 28 Dec 2003 11:21:06 EST Eric Bakken asks what kind of flour to buy if buying 50 lb. sacks... Patent flour is generally all-purpose flour, and Strong flour is usually high-gluten flour. I usually use the patent flour for everything except bagels. Evie --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v104.n001.14 --------------- From: Roxanne Rieske Subject: RE: Deck Ovens Date: Sun, 28 Dec 2003 09:36:41 -0700 Doug wrote: >Have always used my regular oven with a baking stone for baking my bread >at home. Good results, but low capacity. I now have access to a deck oven >from a friend who runs a pizza shop. Before I get all excited at the >prospect of baking 10-15 loaves at a time, are these type ovens good for >baking bread? I was thinking with the ceramic hearth and high temps >capabilities they would do a great job. Any comments would be greatly >appreciated. Thanks. This depends. My oven at work is a deck oven, but it doesn't work well for bread unless the steam cycle is used. Without the steam, the bread comes out with a molted, patchy, undeveloped crust. This is because only the bottom of the oven is lined with stone. To turn out a beautiful loaf in an hearth oven without steam the whole oven has to be stone or brick. So now the question is, is the deck oven you are going to use equipped for a steam cycle? Most deck ovens used in pizzarias are not because they simply don't need them. Roxanne --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v104.n001.15 --------------- From: Roxanne Rieske Subject: RE: 50lb. sacks of flour Date: Sun, 28 Dec 2003 09:44:11 -0700 ConAgra flours are consistant and dependable, and they have a full line of flours available for professional bakers: unbleached, unbleached/organic, pastry flour, high gluten, bread, all purpose, etc. etc. If you contact your customer service agents for your distributors they should be able to give you detailed information packates from ConAgra wich will give info on protein levels, ash content, etc. Also, I believe Sysco is a distributor for King Arthur's professional line. I'd inquire about that as well. Roxanne --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v104.n001.16 --------------- From: Chefsherry1@aol.com Subject: Re: Butter Bell Date: Sun, 28 Dec 2003 12:05:06 EST My daughter & I have been using a butter bell for over a year & love them! We both have stoneware fire-engine red ones made in France & bought from chefscatalog.com, I believe. Good investment in our opinion, even in Georgia & Alabama summers. --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v104.n001.17 --------------- From: "Jazzbel" Subject: Waffles Date: Sun, 28 Dec 2003 12:13:50 -0500 Inside me, there is Bone-Idle-Lazy baker screaming to come out. Please, is there a waffle recipe which does not require whipping the egg whites? Happy new Year all!! Later, Jazzbel --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v104.n001.18 --------------- From: "Doris Bruntel" Subject: Butter Bell Date: Sun, 28 Dec 2003 19:06:00 -0500 I have used one for several years, and will swear by it! Even in the worst of the summer in my (very hot) NYC kitchen, the Bell keeps the butter soft and spreadable. I am very diligent in changing the water, sometimes twice a day in the worst weather, and I have never had the butter go 'off' or rancid. Hope this helps, Doris --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v104.n001.19 --------------- From: Roxanne Rieske Subject: Holiday Bread on a whim Date: Sun, 28 Dec 2003 09:58:43 -0700 I had an adventurous streak last week and made this bread on a whim: I took Peter's recipe for middle class brioche and threw in a couple handfuls of fresh chopped cranberries, mini semi-sweet chocolate chips, golden raisins, and candied lemon peel. After the first rise and initial refrigeration, I stretched it out to a 10 inch by 6 inch log, filled it with a cinnamon-apple filling that I made myself, and rolled it up stollen style. Before going in the oven, I made two cross-like slashes on the top and sprinkled a nut struesal topping on the top. It was outstanding. Unfortunately, I couldn't even begin to write out what amounts I used. I just added stuff until it looked yummy to me :-). Roxanne --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v104.n001.20 --------------- From: "Paul and Ruth Provance" Subject: Bread bags Date: Sun, 28 Dec 2003 00:54:44 -0500 Dear Shirley, For a while there, I could find "food storage and bread bags" at Safeway, but they don't have them any more. I am still using my last box. I used to be able to get bags used for home freezing of vegetables in the half gallon size, and they could also be used for breads. However, both of the above options really only could handle the smaller loaves, 8 x 4 inches. The solution I have found is the King Arthur Baker's Catalog. Of course. I use the "single" bags for my everyday breads, which vary in size from 8 x 4 inch loaves to longer pans that are also 4 inches wide, to the 9 x 5 inch loaves. These bags have plenty of room. They also have baguette bags and double bags for two loaves. I use the "All Purpose" bags for my large Christmas stollen, and the single bags for my smaller, gift-sized stollen. Happy baking! Merry Christmas and Happy New Year! Ruth --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v104.n001.21 --------------- From: "Paul and Ruth Provance" Subject: Unsalted butter Date: Sun, 28 Dec 2003 00:59:28 -0500 Dear Bakers, The last digest certainly covered the salted vs. unsalted butter question. I thought I would add my personal experience. I usually use unsalted butter in everything, generally either Land-o-Lakes or Lucerne, from Safeway. Once, when I was visiting my Dad and brother, I baked them some bread, doing about the same thing I do at home, and found that it was quite a bit saltier than I was used to, though still edible. My brother (the professional cook) pointed out that they had salted butter. Duh. Since then, I pay much closer attention to the butter I am using. If I have salted butter, I use less salt in the dough. I may actually taste the dough to see if the salt level is correct. When using the unsalted butter, I don't worry about this. Just my two cents worth. Ruth --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v104.n001.22 --------------- From: Reggie Dwork Subject: Holiday Cranberry Yeast Bread Date: Sun, 28 Dec 2003 15:16:32 -0800 * Exported from MasterCook * Holiday Cranberry Yeast Bread Recipe By : Light & Tasty, Dec/Jan 2004 Serving Size : 16 Preparation Time :0:00 Categories : Breads Fruits Grains Hand Made Holidays Low Fat Amount Measure Ingredient -- Preparation Method -------- ------------ -------------------------------- 1 1/2 C Cranberries Fresh Or Frozen, Halved 1/3 C Packed Brown Sugar 1/3 C Molasses 1 1/4 C Warm Water -- (110-115F) 1 Tbsp Active Dry Yeast 1 Tbsp Honey 2 Tbsp Butter Or Margarine -- Melted 1 Tsp Salt 1/4 Tsp Ground Allspice 2 1/2 C Whole Wheat Flour 1 1/2 C All-Purpose Flour -- To 2 C "Wonderful aromas permeate the house while this bread is baking. The cranberries give each slice a yummy hint of sweet-tart flavor and the whole wheat flour adds a healthy touch to our holiday menu"... Joan Hallford, North Richland Hills, TX In a bowl, combine the cranberries, brown sugar and molasses; let stand for 1 hour. Stir in 1 C warm water. Add honey; let stand for 5 min. Add the butter, salt, allspice, whole wheat flour, 1 C all-purpose flour and cranberry mixture. Beat until smooth. Stir in enough remaining all-purpose flour to form a soft dough. Turn onto a floured surface; knead until smooth and elastic, about 6 - 8 min. Place in a bowl coated with nonstick cooking spray, turning once to coat top. Cover and let rise in a warm place until doubled, about 1 hr. Punch dough down and turn onto a floured surface; shape into a loaf. Place in a 9" x 5" x 3" loaf pan coated with nonstick cooking spray. Cover and let rise until doubled, about 30 min. Bake at 350F for 50 - 60 min or until golden brown. Remove from pan to wire rack to cool. Yield: 1 loaf (16 slices) Very good!! Reggie - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - NOTES : Cal 164.6 Total Fat 2g Sat Fat 1g Carb 34.2g Fiber 2.9g Pro 4.1g Sod 154mg CFF 10.3% --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v104.n001.23 --------------- From: "s.reinhart" Subject: Mailing Address for Peter Reinhart & "American Pie" Date: Sun, 28 Dec 2003 23:02:44 -0500 Hi All, First, thank you to all who sent for books. I hope you received yours by now and are enjoying it. I will be going on the road soon and won't be able to do much mailing, so if you are still interested in getting a signed copy please note this is the last call, and also that my address has changed yet again (we got a real PO Box instead of a PMB box (you know, Mail Boxes Etc.). Here it is: Peter Reinhart, PO Box 78380, Charlotte, NC 28271. The previous "pmb" address will still be good for two more weeks so don't worry if you sent mail there, I will still be able to get it until the 14th of Jan. After that it will be returned to sender. For those who missed the earlier post, copies of "American Pie" are $20.00, including postage, or $26.00 to Canada. Please be sure to note if you were a recipe tester so I can include that in the inscription. I will try to post my travel teaching schedule soon and hope to meet many of you. The first upcoming event is at the Smithsonian on Feb. 8th, a bread symposium with Rose Levy Berenbaum, Mark Furstenburg, and me. It should be a fun day. The actual pizza classes will begin later in February and will continue through June, on and off. Johnson and Wales has been generous enough to let me do this tour in exchange for letting everyone out there know about our new campus in Charlotte. Quite fair--thank you J&W. I'll try to get the full tour schedule posted within the next 10 days or so, but the first phase covers Houston, Dallas, Scottsdale, Berkeley, Los Gatos, Sonoma, LA, Santa Monica, and Newport Beach. Ater a brief rest, it's on to the rest of the country. Exact dates and such will be posted soon. Again, thank you all for your tremendous support! Best wishes for a great 2004, Sincerely, Peter Reinhart [[Editor's note: the original announcement for "American Pie" was only in daily-bread, not bread-bakers. Sorry about that. -- Jeff & Reggie]] --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v104.n001.24 --------------- From: Andyfrog@aol.com Subject: DAK R2D2 cycle times? Date: Sun, 28 Dec 2003 23:20:32 EST I still have and love my old DAK R2D2. The original instruction manual did not list the length of time for the different cycles and the times for kneading, rising, baking, etc. Years ago I did find such a list on the internet, but, alas, I've lost it. Does anyone have these cycle times or have you figured them out? It would be greatly appreciated. Thanks, andyfrog@aol.com --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v104.n001.25 --------------- From: EZRecipe@aol.com Subject: ISO Sweet Potato Bread recipe Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2003 01:29:33 EST I lost a great recipe for Sweet Potato Bread ABM. It used canned sweet potatoes and marshmallows among the ingredients. It was a yeast bread. There were NO nuts in the recipe. I used to serve it every Thanksgiving. If anyone can find it I'd be eternally grateful! Eileen aka Puppies777@aol.com EZRecipe in the Heartland --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v104.n001.26 --------------- From: "Russell J. Fletcher" Subject: Kalamata Olive Country Bread 1.5 lb (Bread Machine Start) Date: Sun, 28 Dec 2003 22:42:14 -0800 I made this today. It turned out pretty well. Russ * Exported from MasterCook II * Kalamata Olive Country Bread 1.5 lb (Bread Machine Start) Recipe By : http://whatscookingamerica.net/ Serving Size : 1 Preparation Time :0:00 Categories : 30 % Cff Or Less Bread Machine Dough Cycle Amount Measure Ingredient -- Preparation Method -------- ------------ -------------------------------- warm water -- (save olive juice) 1 Tablespoon extra virgin olive oil 1 Tablespoon fresh rosemary -- minced,or dry 1 1/2 cups light rye flour 2 3/4 cups bread flour 1 teaspoon salt 3 teaspoons quick rise yeast 6 ounces kalamata olives, pitted 1/2 cup cold water -- (cornstarch glaze) 1 teaspoon cornstarch Add enough warm water to olive juice to equal 1 cup of total liquid. Place all ingredients in bread pan according to manufacturer's instructions; select dough setting and press start. NOTE: Depending on how much juice is in the olives, you might need to add additional flour. Check the dough (don't be afraid to open the lid). It should form a nice elastic ball. If you think the dough is too moist, add additional flour (a tablespoons at a time). The same is true if the dough is looking dry and gnarly. Add warm water (a tablespoon at a time). When dough cycle has finished, remove dough from pan and turn out onto a lightly oiled surface. Form dough into an oval, cover with plastic wrap, and let rest for 10 minutes. After resting, turn dough bottom side up and press to flatten. Fold dough into an envelope by folding the top 1/3 of the way to the bottom. Then fold the bottom a 1/3 of the way over the top. Then press dough with the palm of your hand to make an indentation down the center of the dough and fold the top completely to the bottom, sealing the seam with the palm of your hand. Place on a jelly roll pan [or cookie sheet] dusted with cornmeal; cover with plastic wrap, and place in a warm spot to rise for approximately 20 minutes. Preheat oven to 400 F. After dough has risen, slash the bread with a very sharp knife making three 1/2-inch deep diagonal slashes. Brush the top of the bread with cold water and bake for 20 to 25 minutes or until nicely browned. A good check is to use an instant thermometer to test your bread. The temperature should be between 200 and 210 F. Cornstarch Glaze: 1/2 cup cold water mixed with 1 teaspoon starch. Place in pan and bring to a boil, stirring constantly. Remove from heat and brush top of bread 10 minutes before removing from the oven (this give the crust a nice crunch). Russ' note: I drained the olives well and didn't have to add any extra flour or water. formatted by Russell Fletcher acoder@xprt.net - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v104.n001.27 --------------- From: "J. Mathew" Subject: Re: Kitchen Aid vs. Bosch Mixers Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2003 06:34:09 -0600 (GMT-06:00) Re the ingredients left in the base of the KA mixing bowl, this does happen occasionally with certain very "dry" recipes or mixtures but I have not generally had this problem when kneading breads or making cakes -- there should be enough liquid in the recipe to pick up the ingredients during the mixing period. Are you certain that the height of the mixing bowl is adjusted properly so that the orbital mixing attachments are reaching the bottom level in the bowl? If memory serves, the manual for my mixer described the adjustment method as follows: place a penny in the bottom of the bowl and use the large adjustment screw on the riser of the mixer to adjust the bowl until the orbital attachment scoots the penny around the bottom ridge of the bowl. If it is not touching the penny then it is not adjusted low enough. One other thought I had about the dry ingredients remaining at the bottom of the bowl is that perhaps it may be beneficial to add a slightly larger amount of liquid ingredient to the dough -- in some instances I've noticed that very "hearty" bread recipes with added "goodies" sometimes tend to be a little on the dry side. I've had excellent results from adding a higher amount of liquid and letting these doughs rise a bit longer (or give them an additional rise). Speaking of making bread and mixers, I just have to throw in my personal "plug" for the Magic Mill Assistent (that's not a typo, it really is spelled with an "e") made by Electrolux -- this thing makes bread like I never would have believed, and its design is so simple (yet powerful) that it is a snap to clean up. It has truly become my new favorite for kneading bread doughs. I haven't tried it yet for large cake recipes -- I'll do that next time I'm "volunteered" for making baked-from-scratch cakes for a crowd of 30...hehe. The sheer volume of bread dough that it will hold easily exceeds my 5-quart KA Pro line mixer. I can't believe I waited 4 years to buy this device, but I'm so thrilled that I finally have it. Later this week I'm planning on making a big bunch of New Year's bread, complete with a "surprise" inside: one of the gold dollar coins that are so hard to find now (polished and wrapped in aluminum foil before being inserted into the bread for baking). These loaves will be given to several friends and neighbors who didn't receive Christmas gifts from me because I was so pressed for time (lest they think I've forgotten them). Hope this helps, Joan --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v104.n001.28 --------------- From: "J. Mathew" Subject: Re: Adding flour 2 hours after making dough Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2003 06:44:15 -0600 (GMT-06:00) Sheer speculation toggle ON..... Since the poster indicated that they were making whole wheat bread, I think what they might be referring to is the mixture and fermentation of the starter for the bread -- this usually contains a small portion of the flour required for the recipe. The starter is left to "rise and bubble" for a period of time, after which the main bread recipe is made using the starter. Whole wheat breads tend to be heavier than other types, so this probably gives it the equivalent of an extra rise, making the loaves lighter and fluffier. Many of the starter-type bread recipes that I'm familiar with indicate that it is satisfactory to leave the starter as long as 24 hours, sometimes in a cool place (e.g., refrigerator) and at other times on the countertop at warmer temperatures -- depends on the bread. My experience is that this often yields a lovely flavor to the bread in addition to making it lighter -- I have a heckuva ciabbatta recipe that uses this method, although it's not whole wheat (see my recipe page at http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/8098/recipes.html to find the ciabbatta recipe and quite a few of my other favorite bread bread recipes). I've left the starter for my ciabbatta in the fridge for as long as a week before I got around to making it, and I've found that the longer it is left the better the flavor! Sheer speculation toggle OFF..... Joan --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v104.n001.29 --------------- From: "J. Mathew" Subject: Re: Loaf shaped freezer bags Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2003 07:00:29 -0600 (GMT-06:00) I would like to suggest using the two-gallon-sized Ziploc freezer bags (the freezer bags use a thicker plastic than regular ones)? These work *great* for freshly-baked bread, and they're easy to find. For smaller loaves you can also use the gallon-sized bags. Depending on the size of your loaves you can sometimes put two bread loaves into a single two-gallon bag. Unless you intend to give the loaves in their bags as gifts to someone there's no requirement that the bags be shaped exactly like the loaves themselves. Make sure that your bread is thoroughly cooled before bagging and freezing it -- otherwise you end up with condensation that turns into ice in the freezer and tends to ruin the lovely homemade bread. To make it as airtight as I possibly can, I generally "zip" the seal all the way except for the last inch or two -- then press out as much air as you can and finish sealing the bag. This works well if you sort of roll the bagged loaf on the counter gently until the bag is basically wrapped around the loaf up to the point of the top seal, then squeeze out as much remaining air that you can and finish sealing. I've used the Ziploc bags for years with great results, and you can often get a nice discount or coupons on them at the grocery to make them very inexpensive. They're easily re-used -- just rinse out with warm, soapy water and dry (I drape them upside-down over my wooden spoons which are stacked upright in an earthen pitcher on my kitchen island -- they dry more thoroughly if you open up the bag and use the spoon as a "hook" while it's drying). NOTE: I do NOT like the bags with the plastic slide top used for sealing (I believe they're called "Easy Zipper") -- these do not create an airtight seal at the corner where they end their "slide" and end up ruining my bread. I prefer the bags with no "zipper slide" since they make a more reliable seal, called the FreezeGuard seal. Also, I believe Ziploc is now making a new bag called Ziploc Double Guard, which is a bag-in-bag design; however, they only come in one-quart and one-gallon sizes. Hope this helps, Joan --------------- END bread-bakers.v104.n001 --------------- -------------- BEGIN bread-bakers.v104.n002 -------------- 001 - - Sourdough Starter for Carolyn 002 - lfc@juno.com - Kitchen Aid vs. Bosch Mixers 003 - "Matt" Subject: Sourdough Starter for Carolyn Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2003 14:50:49 -0600 Hi Carolyn.........sorry it has taken me so long to get back with you on this recipe....my friend finally gave it to me last week. This is a good "starter" that I've been playing with for the last few months. It has worked consistently well using both bread machine and "by hand" techniques. SOURDOUGH STARTER: Mix together: 1 envelope of dry yeast (2 1/4 tsp.) 2 cups very warm water (I just used my hot water out of the tap) 2 cups all purpose flour 1 small potato, halved (I used 3 Tblsp. of potato flakes, instead) Leave mixture sitting out on the countertop all day. Toss out the potato and refrigerate the starter. Every Wednesday and Saturday morning (or any two days you choose...I've even dropped to once per week and it's OK), feed the starter with 1/2 cup sugar, 3 Tablespoons potato flakes, and 1 cup hot tap water. Stir with a wooden or plastic spoon (use glass or plastic bowl...nothing metal). Let the starter set out on countertop 8 to 10 hours (do not cover the starter.) THAT NIGHT, BEFORE RETIRING FOR BED...MAKE THE BREAD: Stir together: 1/2 cup sugar (or use 1/4 cup. if you like it less sweet) 1 1/2 tsp. salt 1/2 cup oil 1 1/2 cups hot tap water Add: 1 cup starter and stir again Add: 6 cups bread flour, adding 2 cups at a time, stirring after each 2 cups; you will need a large glass bowl to mix this in. Spray the top of the dough-ball with "Pam" after you get your dough mixed. Cover it and let it rise overnight on the counter. The next morning, punch the dough down; divide the dough into thirds, put in pans, and spray the tops with Pam. Cover and let rise 8 to 10 hours (or about 6 hours if you prefer your bread to be more firm.) Bake at 325 or 350 F for 30 to 35 min. Brush the browned tops with butter when you take it out of the oven to cool. Here's the recipe I've been using for the BREAD MACHINE VERSION.... (1 1/2 lb. loaf) Mix together 1 T. yeast and 1/2 tsp. sugar in 1/2 cup hot tap water. Set it aside for a few minutes so it will start to bubble up some. In your machine bowl: put in the above yeast and water mixture (it will have begun to bubble up some by now), 3/4 cup of the cold "starter" from your refrigerator, an additional 1/4 cup sugar (I like our bread slightly sweet), 3 T. oil, 1 1/2 tsp. salt, and then 3 cups bread flour. Set the cycle to either just "dough" (and just keep the dough in the frig until ready to shape and bake), or to your basic, "medium or dark crust" loaf of bread. Watch it closely the first 5 min. of kneading...you will need to add a couple of tsp. of water if it's too dry (add one tsp. at a time), or even add a tsp. of flour if it's too wet. After about 10 min. of kneading, it should be smooth, and sort-of sticky. If the machine is making too much of a pounding noise when it kneads...it's too dry...add some water to the dough (as mentioned above.) I have a Sears Kenmore bread machine....and it's a really good one....works perfectly every time. I've used this dough for bread (wonderful sandwiches or toast in the mornings) and also for rolls. Just made up a batch of dough last night to try cinnamon rolls today. They will go right to the "hips"....but hey....'tis the Season, right?!? Maybe I'll give them to that new Skinny-Butt neighbor of mine... Hope you all have a wonderful, safe, New Year! Jeanette in South Texas... where it's 70 degrees and we need a RAIN! --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v104.n002.2 --------------- From: lfc@juno.com Subject: Kitchen Aid vs. Bosch Mixers Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2003 22:16:32 -0600 Hi! Just a thought ... in response to your note about KitchenAid leaving unmixed stuff in the base of the bowl. Have you ever adjusted the little screw to get the paddle/hook/whisk closer to the bottom of the bowl??? Don't let it scratch the bottom, but the adjustment helps. --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v104.n002.3 --------------- From: "Matt" Subject: re: deck ovens Date: Wed, 31 Dec 2003 00:29:37 -0500 Doug, Deck ovens are designed for bread. We have two 3 deck ovens that bake 250 loaves per oven. The only think that I don't know in you case is how high the baking chamber is in you friends oven. Pizza's don't rise too much, but most pizza ovens that I see look like they will work fine for breads. Good luck Regards, Matt --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v104.n002.4 --------------- From: "Matt" Subject: re: Adding flour to the bread dough Date: Wed, 31 Dec 2003 00:43:01 -0500 Judith, I am not familar with that particular recipe, but the process they are speaking of is refered to as an autolyse. What you do in the the this process is mix the water and flour until the water is absorbed and then after 30 min or so you add the rest of the ingredients and knead. You will find that you will have to work the dough less to acheive a well developed dough. They also my be refering to a form of a sponge process. I use one as follows to make breads I make: You make a med to firm spong with flour water and yeast and let it come up then us it to make the final dough. In some cases the sponge is a significant part of the final dough. They my be doing this as whole wheat dough can be a bit difficult to get a nice smooth dough. regards, Matt --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v104.n002.5 --------------- From: "Matt" Subject: re: Spelt Date: Wed, 31 Dec 2003 00:35:23 -0500 Joanie, We use spelt on one bread which is a 100 % whole spelt flour. The trick to spelt is to not over knead it and to not let the dough over proof. Also, you must be gentle during makeup. I have substituted it in some pastry items and I have made dinner rolls with them with good results. I have read that it is very nutritious and that is is easier to digest. It does take some practice to bake with it. One reason we don't us it in more of our baking is that it is expensive. It costs us $45.00 per 50 pound bag. Any questions feel free to contact me. Matt --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v104.n002.6 --------------- From: "Matt" Subject: re: dense bread Date: Wed, 31 Dec 2003 00:48:16 -0500 Make sure that you are starting with a flour appropriate for making bread. King Arthur bread flour or All Purpose flour are excellent! Make sure you are using fresh yeast and are kneading the dough to a point that it is smooth and supple, yet strong. 10 to 15 min by hand. That to start with. matt --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v104.n002.7 --------------- From: "Werner Gansz" Subject: Pasta Machine for Bread Baking Date: Thu, 1 Jan 2004 11:34:50 -0500 Wcsjohn@aol.com wrote in last week's edition; >"Subject: Using a Pasta machine to knead dough. >Date: Sun, 21 Dec 2003 08:26:40 EST >.......I've been wondering for some time if a pasta machine could be used >to knead ordinary bread dough (I'd already used it successfully for Bagel >dough) so, out with the chrome mangle." Another use for a pasta machine in baking is to roll out Lavash, the paper thin Armenian cracker. I made Peter Reinhart's Lavash recipe once using a rolling pin to create the very thin dough sheets and that turned out to require some real skill with the rolling pin to get an even thickness ("thinness"). If they are not evenly thin they won't bake evenly and the thicker sections are tough to break and tougher to eat. This is the ultimate window pane test. The entire sheet is a window pane. To take the skill out of the process I used my hand-crank pasta machine on the second try. By sizing the dough pieces and working through the pasta machine numbers from thickest to thinnest and making sure that by the time I got to the thinnest setting (#7 on mine) the dough was as wide as the machine could handle, I could roll out 17" to 20" long window panes, 3 of which fully utilized the area of a baking sheet. (The sides of the sheets were occasionally a bit ragged but that only adds to the visual interest of the finished cracker. You can even leave undulations in the ends of the sheets to create visual interest, however don't allow the ends to fold onto themselves.) I used various seeds as toppings so I coated the sheets of dough with a watery egg-white glaze to help glue down the seeds and moisten the dough for a short final rest. I then let the dough rest for a half hour to restart the rising before baking. The result was a delicious crackly cracker that broke easily into random shapes. Besides tasting great they make an interesting display and conversation starter on the cheese board. Peter Reinhart's "Lavash Crackers", pg 178, Bread Baker's Apprentice (edited) This is a short form of the recipe. I would urge finding a copy of BBA and reading the entire procedure. 1 1/2 cup unbleached bread flour (I use KA bread flour; extra gluten is helpful here) 1/2 tsp (.13 oz) table salt or equivalent sea salt 1/2 tsp (.055 oz) instant yeast (I use Active Dry Yeast per BBA pg 28.) 1 Tb honey 1 Tb vegetable oil (I used canola oil) 1/3 to 1/2 cup water at room temp toppings i.e., sesame and / or poppy seeds, coarse salt, seed mixtures such as KA's "Baking Blend" which includes caraway, fennel, and other strong flavored seeds often used to coat bread loaves. Reinhart even uses paprika and cumin. Mix and knead all of the ingredients except the toppings into a "firm" dough, i.e., firmer than a baguette dough. Ferment for 90 minutes or until doubled. (I put mine in the fridge overnight. It came out doubled). Divide the dough into 6 to 8 pieces. It will take some fiddling to size the pieces to create fully rolled out sheets that utilize your cookies sheets or baking pans efficiently. Use the pasta machine method discussed above (or use a rolling pin if you have the skill). Only roll out as much as you can bake at once. If you bake on more than one tray in your oven you may have to swap the trays once or twice during baking. Apply a thin egg white glaze (water misting just doesn't work well as a glue) and toppings, then let the dough rest for 1/2 hour. Bake at 350 F for 15 to 20 minutes. They are done when they have a generally uniform brownish cast. The some of the dough will lift off the tray and bake to a slightly different color than rest but if you started out thin enough they will all be fully baked when they look brown on average. Since the crackers are baked dry of moisture they can be left out for munching for a week or more. --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v104.n002.8 --------------- From: RCannetoAL@aol.com Subject: New wonderful bread books Date: Thu, 1 Jan 2004 13:16:49 EST Hello Fellow Bread Bakers! Feliz Ano nuevo! Happy New Year to All! Guess what I got for Christmas? Some really wonderful bread books. One of my favorites right now is one written by a Jesuit priest. It has wonderful bread receipes. The book is called The Secrets of Jesuit Bread Making by Brother Rick Curry. I made his Sweet Potato Bread. Yummy! The other book I got is called Bread Made Easy by Beth Hensperger. I love her notes on each bread receipe. We happen to live right close to the Kenyon Mills in Rhode Island and I got some wheat gluten and cracked wheat berries and once a week I make a wonderful batch of cracked wheat bread and take it to school for my second graders. We love to sit at snack time and enjoy some cracked wheat bread and a read aloud book. Again, wishing everyone a great 2004. Anyone going to the French Culinary Institute in New york for their one week seminar on artisan breads? The price is reasonable. Rose --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v104.n002.9 --------------- From: "Susannah Ayres-Thomas" Subject: RE: Butter bells Date: Thu, 1 Jan 2004 13:39:39 -0600 Someone asked about whether butter bells work: the answer is, yes, they do--but there is one drawback--the butter at the top of the bell (which is on the bottom when the bell is in the part which contains the water) is often wet from that water. I do have, and use, a butter bell, particularly in the summer time, when butter can go rancid in no time flat. But in the latest copy of the KA Flour catalog, they have a new, Polish, three-part butter dish which has a water reservoir on the bottom, then a tray in which you put the water, and finally a cover which goes over the whole assemblage. I haven't personally tried one, but it looks as though it would work, and it has the advantage of not getting any water on the butter. Also, the butter bell requires you to soften the butter, and then smush it into the bell, and that can be kind of tricky--the new dish takes a whole, intact stick of butter, without requiring that it be reshaped in any way. Susannah --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v104.n002.10 --------------- From: Reggie Dwork Subject: Dimension 2000 vs Bosch 7010 Date: Fri, 02 Jan 2004 19:51:08 -0800 I am interested in a Dimension 2000 mixer vs Bosch 7010 ... if you have either of these ... what are the benefits and why did you select it?? Are you happy with it?? Had any problems with it?? Anything else you would like to share with me about your choice?? Thanks, Reggie --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v104.n002.11 --------------- From: Reggie Dwork Subject: Peter Reinhart demonstations Date: Sun, 04 Dec 2004 23:16:32 -0800 Peter will be doing a demonstration class at Ramekins in Sonoma, CA on Feb 28, 2004 : Join Peter on his odyssey in search of perfect pizza. He will tell us stories of his pizza journeys throughout Italy and the United States and demonstrate a number of variations of classic pizzas and focaccia, from his new book, American Pie: My Search for the Perfect Pizza. Neo-Neapolitan White Clam Pizza ala "Frank Pepe's"; Pizze alle Napoletana: Pizza Margherita; Pizza Marinara; Pizza Apulia Focaccia col Formaggio di Recco - Ligurian two-crusted cheese pie; Genoa-style Focaccia with three variations; He will also be at Sur La Table with a similar (the same?) class on these dates: Berkeley: February 27 Dallas: February 25 Houston: February 24 Los Angeles: March 6 Los Gatos: February 26 Marlton: March 22 Newport Beach: March 4 Santa Monica: March 3 Scottsdale: March 1 --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v104.n002.12 --------------- From: Jeff Dwork Subject: New recipes on the bread-bakers web site Date: Sun, 04 Dec 2004 23:20:35 -0800 The recipes for the second half of 2001 are finally up on the web site - and 2002 will be ready soon! and click on "download recipes". Jeff --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v104.n002.13 --------------- From: Jeff Dwork Subject: King Arthur web links Date: Sun, 04 Dec 2004 23:40:22 -0800 When you send a message to bread-bakers and you want include a link to the King Arthur Flour web site, please don't just copy and paste the link from your browser into the message. These links look like this: http://ww2.kingarthurflour.com/cgibin/htmlos.cgi/3416.9.868206976619528645 which you will see in the address bar of your browser. Pages like this are created on the fly for your browsing session and the link won't work for very long. Please include the item number or name of the recipe or whatever will help people find the page. Jeff --------------- END bread-bakers.v104.n002 --------------- Copyright (c) 1996-2004 Regina Dwork and Jeffrey Dwork All Rights Reserved