Date: Sat, 27 Dec 2003 23:33:46 -0700 (MST) -------------- BEGIN bread-bakers.v103.n053 -------------- 001 - Wcsjohn@aol.com - Unsalted butter 002 - "J. Mathew" - Unsalted butter 005 - "Max Prola" - Merry Christmas All!! 024 - Reggie Dwork Subject: Re: Unsalted Butter Date: Sat, 13 Dec 2003 06:09:12 -0600 (GMT-06:00) The purpose of using unsalted butter in recipes and then adding salt separately is to allow you complete control over the amount of salt that goes into the recipe. Regular butter has salt in it, but you cannot measure the amount exactly -- each brand varies to some degree. BTW, I usually buy only unsalted butter in my household since I do so much baking. When I want to serve butter on the table (e.g., when I'm having friends over for brunch or dinner) I serve tiny rectangles of it, "embellished" with kosher salt sprinkled on top and a tiny sprig of parsley. It has the multiple purpose of adding salt for the flavor but also makes a beautiful addition to the table setting. On another note but relating to butter topics, I've been eye-ing the "butter bell" that I've seen in the King Arthur catalog. Has anyone used these things -- do they really work well? I was thinking this might be just the thing when I make a big spread of baked breads and take them to the office where we don't have refrigeration options -- this might allow me to keep the butter out all day with the array of breads and other condiments so that it doesn't go rancid. Hope that helps, Joan --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v103.n053.3 --------------- From: "Tom Spillman" Subject: RE: Making Pizza Crusts for the Freezer Date: Sat, 13 Dec 2003 06:04:28 -0600 In bread-bakers.v103.n052 >From: "Schmitt, Barbara E." >Subject: Making Pizza Crusts for the Freezer >Date: Mon, 8 Dec 2003 09:22:50 -0500 >I know the purists on the list will be horrified at the shape of the pizza >and the fact that I bake it on parchment, but it works well for me and >gives us take-out quick pizza that tastes a lot better. Best of all, I >consistently get a crust that is uniformly thick, transfers easily from >counter to oven to cooling rack, and fits well into freezer bags. My >husband has banned "bought" pizza ever since the first of Peter's recipes >that I tested on him! Sounds good. I wouldn't be concerned about the purists complaints about the shape. When we were in Italy we saw many non-round pizzas, particularly in Rome. Many cafes served pizza and the only round pizzas we saw there were those made for an individual. Most slices were square. As to the parchment paper, I too have used it with success. I believe in a pragmatic approach: if it works, do it! Regards... Tom --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v103.n053.4 --------------- From: Ellen Lee Subject: Unsalted butter Date: Sat, 13 Dec 2003 08:02:11 -0500 Larry, I can tell that you don't watch or listen to Martha Stewart! There are two reasons for using unsalted butter for cooking and baking. First, if recipes need salt, they give how much to use. Salted butter yields extra salt (eureka!) but not in a standardized amount. Second, unsalted butter is and tastes fresher because salt acts as a preservative and as a disguiser of rancidity and thus has a longer "shelf life". A third reason: It doesn't contribute to the excess sodium in American diets. I haven't bought salted butter in at least 30 years. Ellen --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v103.n053.5 --------------- From: "Max Prola" Subject: Re: unsalted butter Date: Sat, 13 Dec 2003 13:32:56 -0000 Salt is added to butter both to retard and to conceal the deterioration in flavour which inevitably occurs, thus giving it a longer shelf life. The addition of salt also makes it possible to sell a low-grade butter to the unsuspecting consumer. Unsalted butter is sometimes also labelled "sweet butter." Best wishes, Max Prola Cheshire England --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v103.n053.6 --------------- From: Tarheel_Boy@webtv.net (Skallywagg) Subject: HAPPY HOLIDAYS Date: Sat, 13 Dec 2003 08:34:07 -0500 (EST) I'd like to sneak in here and wish all my fellow bakers a happy holiday season. I've learned so much from all of you and thank you for it. I've also met some wonderful people and we are now close friends (you know who you are). A special thank you goes to Reggie and Jeff Dwork without whom this would not have been possible. Bob the Tarheel Baker --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v103.n053.7 --------------- From: The Lawrences Subject: Deck ovens Date: Sat, 13 Dec 2003 09:17:03 -0500 Hello to all; Hope everyone's holiday baking is going well. Have a question about deck ovens I was hoping someone with more bread baking experience might help me with. Have always used my regular oven with a baking stone for baking my bread at home. Good results, but low capacity. I now have access to a deck oven from a friend who runs a pizza shop. Before I get all excited at the prospect of baking 10-15 loaves at a time, are these type ovens good for baking bread? I was thinking with the ceramic hearth and high temps capabilities they would do a great job. Any comments would be greatly appreciated. Thanks. Doug --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v103.n053.8 --------------- From: Joanie001@aol.com Subject: Re: bread made without flour? Date: Sat, 13 Dec 2003 09:36:59 EST Someone sent me some pictures of bread made without flour. I think you may have sent it by mistake, but I am intrigued. Is there a recipe for this? I would love to have it as so many of my friends are on the South Beach Diet, and it would be a great gift for them. Thanks Joanie --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v103.n053.9 --------------- From: Joanie001@aol.com Subject: Spelt Date: Sat, 13 Dec 2003 09:41:56 EST Can anyone tell me something about spelt. Can it be used in place of flour and how does it compare with whole wheat flour nutrition wise as well as a substitute in baking? I'm thinking about using more of it as I had some spelt pasta and though it compared favorably with whole wheat pasta which I normally use. Joanie --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v103.n053.10 --------------- From: "Jazzbel" Subject: Unsalted butter Date: Sat, 13 Dec 2003 10:21:06 -0500 The only difference is the salt. Unsalted butter stales faster. And there is hearsay that manufacturers salt old butter to salvage it, so unsalted butter is supposed to be fresher. Different brands of butter carry different levels of salt, so unsalted butter will guarantee that you can control the level of salt in your food. Mostly people use the unsalted butter to make cake buttercreams, but I do not find any significant difference, since I mostly use french butters which are lightly salted. Later, Jazzbel --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v103.n053.11 --------------- From: "St:" Subject: Sprouted Essene Bread? Date: Sat, 13 Dec 2003 08:56:25 -0800 (PST) I have been buying various brands of sprouted Essene Bread for years from the health food stores. Wonderful nutritional munchie breads. I have "tried" to make my own so that I can add a few extra goodies to the recipe like high protein Quinoa for example. Basically I don't have a clue how to get a good loaf. This bread is wet sprouted, can be multigrains and NOT oven baked because the higher heats tends to destroy a lot of the potential nutrition in the loaf. While the grains are still wet, they are run through a grinder, pat a shaped loaf and then dry the crust. The crust is dried in ultra low heat source or from sunlite directly or in a low temp solar oven with the objective of keeping the temps under 100 F. Does anyone have experience with Essene breads, know of recipes, understands the process and consistently gets good loafs?? I could use some help. Thanks, St: --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v103.n053.12 --------------- From: Roxanne Rieske Subject: re: salted butter Date: Sat, 13 Dec 2003 10:49:24 -0700 In one phrase: Salted butter generally means old butter. Butter past its prime is generally recycled by salting it to mask off flavors and to further extend its shelf life. In bread recipes, using salted butter will not alter the chemistry of the recipe by that much (although it may alter the taste of the bread). But in cake and pastry recipes, where a delicate balance must be maintained, it certainly does. Roxanne --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v103.n053.13 --------------- From: "King's Crown" Subject: Re: Unsalted Butter Date: Sat, 13 Dec 2003 11:41:52 -0800 Hi Larry, I found this out a few years ago when I met up with someone who was a chef. He said that the reason to use unsalted butter in some baking recipes is so YOU can control how much salt goes into the recipe. He said that salted butters can have varying amounts of salt in them. When baking sometimes the amount of salt matters and therefore use the unsalted butter and add your own premeasured amount of salt. All the best, Lynne --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v103.n053.14 --------------- From: Cheryl Subject: Quick Bread Question Date: Sat, 13 Dec 2003 14:48:17 -0600 Iam wanting to make some quick breads to give as holiday gifts. The recipes I am doing call for baking in a 9 x 5 loaf pan but I would like to bake them in 6 x 3 1/2 disposable pans. I have read that in order to do this I should reduce the oven temperature by one-third but this sounds a bit drastic. In the past I have baked dough in soup cans without reducing the temp and they came out OK. The recipe I'm using calls for some pricey ingredients and I don't want to screw it up. Any advice? Thanks. Cheryl --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v103.n053.15 --------------- From: Hahagranny@aol.com Subject: Re: viking mixers Date: Sat, 13 Dec 2003 16:00:51 -0500 The viking that you have seen in the store - is that the new one that you can "mix & match" for color coordination? God Bless You & Yours, Georgia (HAHAGRANNY) --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v103.n053.16 --------------- From: "David A Barrett" Subject: Re: Unsalted Butter Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2003 09:48:07 -0500 How much salt is there in a tablespoon of salted butter? Don't know? Neither do I. I bet it varies from brand to brand too. Some time back, my wife and I discovered a french contraption called a "beurriere". Basically, it allows you to keep butter at room temperature for days or weeks at a time without having it go off. We stoppped using margarine the next day. What we discovered, when going back to butter as a spread, is that salted butter is *very* salty. Luckily, there is a brand of semi-salted butter available in our area, so we switched to that. I once tried to make croisants with salted butter (didn't have any unsalted in the house at the time). They were inedible, it made that much of a difference. This also illustrates another important point. The salt in the croisant dough is a necessary component that adds to the elasticity of the dough, I couldn't add less salt to the dough to compensate for the butter, because the butter is added to the recipe after the dough has been kneaded and risen. There's two reasons: timing and precision. Dave Barrett --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v103.n053.17 --------------- From: "Matt" Subject: Unsalted Butter Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2003 14:11:12 -0500 Unsalted butter, since it is not being preserved by salt is fresher. Regards, Matt --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v103.n053.18 --------------- From: "Raymond Kenyon" Subject: Need recipe for Semolina/Sesame bread Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2003 20:32:31 -0600 Anyone have a great recipe for semolina/sesame bread? --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v103.n053.19 --------------- From: Eric and Johanna Bakken Subject: Commercial Flour -- What to buy? Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2003 22:07:33 -0500 I've decided, after several years of baking for my family, several loaves a week, that the way to really learn baking is to buy a big bag of flour and bake it all--more than my family could ever eat (enjoying the sharing of the bread as much as baking, I'm sure), and working my way through the many techniques that Peter writes about. I work at a camp and can order through two major food distributors--US Foodservice and Sysco. I'm wondering what kind of flour I should ask for if I'm buying big 50 lb sacks. I do want unbleached, but beyond that, are their better brands/designations that others? Thanks, Eric Bakken --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v103.n053.20 --------------- From: Haack Carolyn Subject: unsalted butter Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2003 19:36:15 -0800 (PST) Been out of touch for a while, total kitchen replacement which included psychotic baking levels over the summer so we'd have good homemade bread for breakfast for 2 ... well, three ... well going on FOUR months. Finally got the new Wolf double ovens in as we were eating the last loaf in the freezer. YIKES! More on the ovens (including self-heating pizza stone) as I get to know them. But I digress ... I bake and cook a lot, from simple scrambled eggs to pretty fancy cakes (Rose Levy B's Cake Bible is my main squeeze there!). And, see above, lots of bread. In most cases I just use salted butter and move on ... if there is any "heft" to the essential flavor of the recipe, you'll never notice the difference. HOWEVER: When it comes to buttercream, truffles, delicate cakes & cookies -- sweet butter is absolutely the thing. When it comes to what to spread ON TOP OF a fine slice of homemade bread -- sweet butter is absolutely the thing. I save the investment (and somewhat shorter shelf-life) in sweet butter for those times it will absolutely, directly hit the tongue; otherwise, I'd say that unless you're counting every salt molecule (and some of have to do that) I'd use the regular salted and keep moving. --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v103.n053.21 --------------- From: "Larry Geller" Subject: Subject: Unsalted Butter Date: Thu, 18 Dec 2003 14:55:17 -1000 Unsalted butter tastes better! Plugra or Keller's are European-style cultured butters. Land O'Lakes is another brand you might find, not cultured. Try to buy these frozen. If they're in a refrigerator in the store, ask if they have some in their freezer in the back and buy that. European butter also has a high percentage of butterfat, 82 percent to 86 percent, and so a lower percentage of moisture (so don't warm it in the microwave, it could damage the unit). The best way to learn the difference is to buy some and experience it yourself. Cheerz, --Larry --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v103.n053.22 --------------- From: Wcsjohn@aol.com Subject: Using a Pasta machine to knead dough. Date: Sun, 21 Dec 2003 08:26:40 EST I was making a batch of very unadventurous poolish baguettes a couple of weeks ago. I ran them at 60% hydration and, when I got to the kneading, I just couldn't face the work of pummelling relatively stiff dough for 10 minutes (not entirely idleness, Parkinson's disease and tendonitis can make hand kneading very difficult for me). I've been wondering for some time if a pasta machine could be used to knead ordinary bread dough (I'd already used it successfully for Bagel dough) so, out with the chrome mangle. I cut the roughly mixed and autolysed dough into 4 pieces, each about 200 gm and passed them through the widest setting. Ropy, lumpy, very discouraging to anybody who's never made pasta. Fold in half, pass through, repeat, repeat, well look at that, we have real dough. amalgamate the strips of dough 2 at a time passing through the machine each time. Fold and pass the single strip through another 6 times. The result was the smoothest, most elastic bread dough I have ever produced. It even passed, with ease, the infamous window pane test. Shaping, without flour was a delight. Oven spring magnificent, slash definition sharp, the crumb was very elastic and extremely light. Lovely bread. Since then I have made 5 batches of 60% lean breads all different recipes, all varying between excellent and superb. The process is so easy that I've started keeping half the day's batch to make the next days bread, the way real bakers do it. I know, I know, this is John "High Hydration" Wright speaking but the results are far better than anything I ever managed with a Kenwood or my own fair hands and sufficiently good to make me question, very seriously, a lot of my asumptions about the value of mechanical working of bread dough. The current recipe follows. PASTA MACHINE BAGUETTES The batch size is 800 gm, 400 gm dough to make up into loaves and 400 gm to leave for the next time. This is sufficient for 3 ficelles or 6 Petit Pains, enough for a day's basic bread for Mo and myself. The pate I'm using is now on its 5th incarnation and it just gets better. Lean dough, indirect method, 60% hydration, 2 days to make. The pasta machine is kept on it's widest setting throughout. Pate starter (I use the reserved dough from the previous bake) 10 gm rye flour 240 gm white bread flour - my regular 12.2% protein type 150 gm warm water 1/2 teaspoon instant yeast 1 teaspoon salt. Main dough The starter 10 gm rye flour 240 gm white bread flour - my regular 12.2% protein type 150 gm warm water 1/2 teaspoon instant yeast 1 teaspoon salt. Roughly mix the starter ingredients and leave for 20 minutes to autolyse. Divide into 2 pieces.(This is purely for ease of handling.) Pass 1 piece through the machine. fold in 2. Pass through the machine, Repeat 3 times, you should now have recognisable bread dough. Repeat the process for the other piece. You now have 2 strips of dough. lay one on top of the other and pass through the machine. Fold and roll another 6 times. The dough will be incredibly smooth and elastic. Roll up tightly, put in a plastic bag, seal and leave at room temperature til next day. Mix the ingredients for the main dough, except for the starter, roughly and rest for 20 minutes. Flatten the dough out, flatten the pate starter to roughly the same shape and place on top. cut into 4 pieces and proceed as for the starter but, obviously, amalgamate the strips of dough in 2 operations, pairs of pieces then the two larger pieces to produce one long strip. Fold and pass through 5 times, or 6 if necessary to produce a smooth, elastic dough that shows a windowpane. (Bet you never thought you'd see that instruction written by me.). Roll up, cut in half if you're going to keep some dough to make tomorrows 's starter and put half in a plastic bag and leave til next day at room temp. Now just use the dough as you normally would, giving it at least 1 rise before shaping. Proof to at least double and this dough would normally take 3X. Slash and bake. I bake at flat max , 300C in my oven, reducing as soon as the bread is in the oven to 220C. The spring is remarkable and the bread will be very light. The flavour from the room temperature starter is excellent. The rye is important. Any questions, just ask. This is by far the best "conventional" 60/2/2 baguette dough I have ever produced. John --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v103.n053.23 --------------- From: sue Subject: Merry Christmas All!! Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2003 14:07:07 +0800 Thank-you for all the info I've been getting from the list and Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year to all!!! Sue --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v103.n053.24 --------------- From: Reggie Dwork Subject: Cornmeal Bread Date: Wed, 24 Dec 2003 15:08:09 -0800 * Exported from MasterCook * Cornmeal Bread Recipe By : Gourmet, 7/1996 Serving Size : 8 Preparation Time :0:00 Categories : Bread-Bakers Mailing List Breads Fatfree Gifts Grains Hand Made Holidays Amount Measure Ingredient -- Preparation Method -------- ------------ -------------------------------- 3/4 C Warm Water -- (105 - 115F) 2 1/2 Tsp Rapid-Rise Yeast 1/2 Tsp Sugar 1 1/4 C All-Purpose Flour 1/3 C Yellow Cornmeal 1 Tsp Salt This recipe makes 2 small loaves of cornmeal bread: You can freeze 1 loaf, wrapped in plastic wrap, up to 2 weeks. Lightly grease 2 loaf pans, 5 1/2 by 3 by 2 1/2". In a bowl stir together warm water, yeast, and sugar and let stand until foamy, about 5 min. In a small bowl stir together flour, cornmeal, and salt and gradually stir into yeast mixture, stirring until a soft dough is formed. On a lightly floured work surface with floured hands knead dough 5 min, or until smooth and elastic, and shape into a ball. Let dough rest, covered, 10 min. Form dough into 2 ovals. Transfer dough to loaf pans and let rise, covered loosely with plastic wrap, in a warm place until doubled in bulk, about 30 min. Preheat oven to 400F. Bake loaves in middle of oven 20 min, or until tops are golden and bread pulls away slightly from sides of pans. Cool loaves in pans on a rack. Bread may be made 1 day ahead and kept wrapped in plastic wrap at room temperature. Makes 2 loaves, each loaf serving 4. NOTES: We made these to give as holiday gifts to the neighbors. Instead of making 2 small loaves we made 1 out of the dough. It didn't rise very much and was dense but very tasty. - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - NOTES : Cal 96.8 Total Fat 0.4g Sat Fat 0.1g Carb 20.1g Fiber 0.8g Pro 3g Sod 268mg CFF 3.3% --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v103.n053.25 --------------- From: Glenn Teeter Subject: Bread baking. Date: Fri, 26 Dec 2003 11:57:12 -0800 (PST) I'm having a problem achieving a high, light loaf of bread. Baked bread turns out heavy and dense regardless of recipe or type. Anyone have any suggestions? --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v103.n053.26 --------------- From: ansleyrc@juno.com Subject: Kitchen Aid vs. Bosch Mixers Date: Sat, 27 Dec 2003 16:15:36 GMT Hello, Over the holidays I got out my mega-mixer, the Bosch, to mix homemade cakes and breads. As I baked the breads and cakes I noticed that the Bosch mixer did a much more thorough job mixing and definitely produced a lighter, fluffier bread and cake. Has anyone else had this type result? I also notice when I mix bread in my Kitchen Aid it inevitably leaves unmixed components in the base of the mixing bowl. There was none of this in the Bosch this year. Many kudos to Bosch designers. I just wondered if anyone else had a similar experience. --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v103.n053.27 --------------- From: Judith Mayberry Subject: Adding flour to the bread dough Date: Sat, 27 Dec 2003 13:04:04 -0800 Several weeks ago someone wrote this (and I apologize for not noting who): "I have been baking a lot of the breads from The Bread Bible and having read Rosie's comments on cracked wheat bread, I suddenly felt the urge to make some Whole Wheat Bread. I used the recipe from The King Arthur Cookbook. Having the dough do its thing for 2 hours before adding the rest of the flour made the difference. My bread came out sooo delicious!!!!" I don't understand the reference to adding flour 2 hours after the dough is made. Can anyone explain the process? Also, which King Arthur Cookbook--the old one or the new one? Thanks so much for helping this tardy group member. --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v103.n053.28 --------------- From: Larry Klevans Subject: Panettone for ABM Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2003 23:45:50 -0500 Panettone This is a bread machine recipe for traditional Italian fruit bread. It comes from the DAK gourmet Gazette. It works very well in the Breadman Ultimate Machine. 1 cup very warm water 5 Tablespoons of Sugar 5 Tablespoons of butter or margarine, softened or melted 3 Tablespoons non-fat dry milk 1/2 teaspoon salt 1/2 teaspoon vanilla 1/2 teaspoon almond extract 1 egg 3 cups of bread flour 1 package or 2 1/2 teaspoons regular yeast 2 Tablespoons pine nuts 3 tablespoons dried or candied fruit 1/2 cup raisins soaked in rum or water and well drained I use the 2.0 pound nut and fruit bread setting with a light crust. Also I load the pine nuts into the dispensing tray and push the "Extra" button to have the nut dispenser open. When the dispenser opens, about 8 minutes before the end of the kneading cycle, I add the candied fruit. Three minutes later I add the raisins. The bread comes out of the machine very soft and needs to cool on a rack for about 30 minutes. Larry from Maryland --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v103.n053.29 --------------- From: Reggie Dwork Subject: Wishes for the new year Date: Sun, 27 Dec 2003 22:22:09 -0800 May you all have good health, peace and prosperity in the coming year - and bake lots of bread! Reggie & Jeff --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v103.n053.30 --------------- From: "Richard Petty" Subject: looking for loaf shaped freezer bags Date: Fri, 19 Dec 2003 16:25:57 -0500 Does anyone know where I can find plastic, bread loaf shape bags to freeze my bread machine made loaves in? Even if it is not for the freezer I can use 2 bags instead of 1 that will equal a freezer bag. I can't find bags in the store shaped like a loaf of bread. Thanks, Shirley --------------- END bread-bakers.v103.n053 --------------- Copyright (c) 1996-2003 Regina Dwork and Jeffrey Dwork All Rights Reserved