Date: Sun, 19 Oct 2003 14:38:46 -0600 (MDT) -------------- BEGIN bread-bakers.v103.n045 -------------- 001 - "Mike Avery" - refreshing sourdough starters 005 - "Thomas O'Neal" Subject: Re: hi-altitude bread Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 08:24:09 -0600 On 5 Oct 2003 Larry T asked >Do bread recipes need to be adjusted for high altitudes? Yes. >Every year I cook Satuday dinner for a week-end dance camp up in the >mountains, at about 6000 ft. elevation. I'm not sure how much adjustment 6,000 feet requires. >Next year, since the dinner I'm thinking of preparing is simpler that what >I usually do, I'm thinking of baking fresh bread for the 40-or-so >participants. I'm thinking of using either the pan de campagne or ciabtta >recipes from The Bread Baker's Apprentice. Good, that will give you lots of time to practice! >What I want to do is > >1. Make the pre-ferments at home. > >2. Mix the final dough at home, and place in the fridge. They don't have >any mixers at the lodge, and I don't want to lug my Kitche-Aid up there. >Nor do I want to have to hand-knead it there. There are other, more fun >things to do. > >3. Try to keep the dough cool during transport, and refrigerate at the >camp until Saturday morning, when I'll take it out and let it warm and >rise, then bake it. > >Does anyone have any suggestions re the altitude or the prep? Should I >shape the loaves at step 2 or Saturday morning? I think you're going out of your way to make things hard for yourself. I'm at 7,700 feet. I usually cut the riser by about 1/3, lower the oven temperature by about 25F, and bake a little longer than called for. You didn't mention at what altitude your kitchen is situated. As a result, it's hard to guess what will happen when you take the dough from a lower to higher altitude. As people approach Leadville, Colorado, they hear strange explosions in their cars... it's the potato chip bags exploding. Our local health food store often samples chips because there's always a sack or two that burst when they are brought up here. So, what will happen to the dough? I suspect you'll get extra rise. My suggestion? Go back to the camp sometime during the year. Practice taking dough up with you, if you just have to do that, to see how it works. And then bake bread from scratch to see how that works. When the dinner rolls around, you can always recruit help from the 40 some odd people to get help kneading. As a final comment, with sourdough, it's rare that I knead more than 10 to 15 minutes. Mike -- Mike Avery MAvery@mail.otherwhen.com --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v103.n045.2 --------------- From: "LKR" Subject: Re: Larry at Somewhat High Altitude Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 10:19:35 -0600 Dear Larry, I regularly make breads, including Reinhart's pan de campagne, at 7,000 ft. At this altitude, the air usually holds less water than at sea level, so you will have to watch the dough closely as it rises to be sure it doesn't form a dry crust on top. I sometimes leave a very wet paper towel on the surface of rising dough if it is in a large bowl and there is a lot of air space between the dough and the covering. I always use plastic to cover, never cloth, to avoid drying out the dough. If you are doing the rise in bread pans, oiled plastic wrap will work well. Your dough will also rise faster due to lower atmospheric pressure at higher altitude. You might have more control over the faster rising if you don't form the loaves until Saturday morning when you are at the higher altitude. Once the dough is in the pans it is pretty hard to punch them down and start over, if you see what I mean. Mike Avery bakes at even higher altitude and is an extremely experienced baker so I am sure his comments will be particularly helpful to you and he will correct any erroneous information I may have given you. --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v103.n045.3 --------------- From: "Michael C. Zusman" Subject: Dark Rye Recipe Date: Sat, 18 Oct 2003 23:07:13 -0700 >From: >Subject: dark rye bread? >Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2003 05:39:12 -0400 > > "Mary Laird" asked: >Is there a good recipe for a dark, chewy rye bread with a hard crust? Maybe: Seeded Onion Rye Makes 2 approximately 1 1/2 lb. loaves Soaker: 125 g (4 oz.) cracked rye or rye meal 125 g (4 oz.) warm water Pre-ferment: 125 g (4 oz.) rye sour 125 g (4 oz.) water 200 g (7 oz.) high gluten white flour Dough: Soaker (all) Pre-ferment (all) 250 g (8 oz.) high gluten white flour 75 g (2 1/2 oz.) rye flour 10 g (1/4 oz.; one packet) yeast 15 g (1/2 oz.) salt 25 g (1 oz.) brown sugar colorant(s) (cocoa powder, molasses, caramel coloring) to preference (optional) 175 g (6 oz.) water 50 g (2 oz.) roasted onions 25 g (1 oz.) caraway seeds 10 g (1/2 oz.) charnushka seeds cornmeal (or polenta) for sprinkling an egg (for egg wash) Combine soaker ingredients. Allow to stand at room temperature 8 hours or overnight. Combine well pre-ferment ingredients. Allow to stand at room temperature 6 to 8 hours or overnight - until pre-ferment has fully risen and just begun to fall back. Once soaker and pre-ferment are ready, combine them in bowl of heavy duty mixer with flours, yeast (preferably instant), salt, brown sugar, colorant(s) (if using) and most of the water. (For ease of mixing, tear pre-ferment into rough 1 or 2 inch chunks first.) Mix at lowest speed to incorporate (approximately 3 to 4 minutes), scraping down sides of bowl once or twice, if necessary. Increase speed to medium low and mix for another 3 to 4 minutes until a sticky dough forms. Add onions and seeds at this point, and mix on low until incorporated. Complete mixing at medium high speed for another 3 to 4 minutes, adding water or flour as necessary. Finished dough should be moderately sticky, with a slight gloss and elastic feel. If dough seems too sticky, sprinkle some additional flour and knead for a minute or two to incorporate. Turn or scrape dough out to a lightly floured work surface. If dough is too sticky or is batter-like, sprinkle additional flour on top and knead to incorporate. (Do not add too much; rye dough is always going to be somewhat sticky.) Form dough into a rough ball and place into a lightly oiled bowl, turning dough in oil to coat all over. Cover bowl with plastic wrap. Allow to rise either at room temperature (1 1/2 to 2 1/2 hours) or in refrigerator (6 to 8 hours or overnight) until about doubled. If you are not ready to make the bread once the dough is doubled, deflate and allow to double again at room temperature. Preheat oven to 375F. Once dough is fully risen, remove plastic from bowl and pat any excess oil off dough with a paper towel. Turn out to lightly floured work surface and divide dough into two equal, roughly square or rectangular pieces. With hands, flatten and, if necessary, shape each piece of dough. To form each loaf, fold the dough over on itself in thirds, as one would fold a business letter. Pinch seam that forms to seal the bottom of the loaf. Then, tuck and press ends under the formed loaf to seal the ends. Roll the loaf back and forth on the work surface to finish sealing and elongate. (If the dough "fights back", allow to rest for a few minutes before finishing this step.) The finished loaves should look like 10 to 12 inch cylinders with rounded ends, seam on the bottom. Gently place each loaf on a baking sheet lined with parchment paper that has been lightly sprinkled with cornmeal (or polenta) or a nonstick baking sheet liner, such as a Silpat, with or without the cornmeal (or polenta) on it. Cover with a floured linen towel or lightly oiled plastic wrap. Allow to rise at room temperature or a little warmer for 45 minutes to an hour, or until the loaves have not quite doubled in bulk. Brush each loaf all over with an egg wash consisting of one egg plus 2 Tablespoons of water beaten together. Slash each loaf with a lame (or scalpel blade or extremely sharp knife) width-wise at each end and the middle and immediately place in oven. Bake 35-40 minutes at 375F until loaves are very dark and internal temperature is at least 190F. Turn off and vent oven and allow loaves to remain for another 5 minutes. Remove loaves carefully from baking sheet to cooling rack and allow to cool thoroughly before eating. --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v103.n045.4 --------------- From: Subject: refreshing sourdough starters Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 23:59:02 -0500 About a year and a half ago, someone (I looked in the archives and think I found that it was Alan Jackson) mentioned that they had been using the same starter for almost 8 years. He described that he only refreshed it every 1-2 weeks or so, and that it had never failed to work for him. The starter that was given to me is a thin, very sweet liquid. It tastes great, but the "refreshing" (with 1 c. hot water, 3 T. potato flakes, and 1/2 c. sugar) twice per week is killing me! Alan, would you please share your starter recipe? You mentioned that you obtained it from a FAQ off the Internet. Any help with a mixture that doesn't require so much tending will really be appreciated. Thanks, Jeanette in South Texas --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v103.n045.5 --------------- From: "Thomas O'Neal" Subject: Oat bread Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 08:41:58 -0400 Does someone have a good recipe for bread based on oat Flour? A commercial loaf I tried listed as ingredients: oat flour, barley flour, bread flour, molasses, sugar, milk, and possibly eggs (not sure about this last ingredient). Thanks! Denny O'Neal, Durham, NC --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v103.n045.6 --------------- From: "Kyle" Subject: dark rye bread? Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 08:41:35 -0400 Try Izzy's NY Rye from Nancy Silverton's "Breads From the La Brea Bakery". It's really tasty stuff! Kyle www.kylescupboard.com --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v103.n045.7 --------------- From: Jhawkblu@aol.com Subject: about honey Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 08:52:27 EDT Hello all my little busy bees! Actually this is somewhat of a misstatement. Bees look really busy, but when you take a hive apart, you will find a good percentage sitting around on empty comb basically doing nothing. Bees do need their rest. Don't think they actually "sleep", but do spend a significant amount of time motionless. A word of caution. As someone who always uses honey for sugar in my bread machine bread, and as a beekeeper, I recommend that you look at where your honey is coming from. Check story at www.amercan-reporter.com/2,194/4.html. Off shore honey is risky. Buy your honey from your local beekeeper. Ask him/her questions on how they work their hives. Make sure that all medications are applied when the supers are OFF the hive. You have to medicate, otherwise the bees will eventually die. And be prepared to pay a bit more than the local Sam's or Costco. If you do, make sure the honey is from the USA. At least the FDA is on your side here. Ivan(Kansas)(had a good honey crop this year) --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v103.n045.8 --------------- From: Epwerth15@aol.com Subject: Re: high altitude breads Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 09:38:11 EDT Larry T's question: >Do bread recipes need to be adjusted for high altitudes? I live at 8000 feet in the eastern Sierra's and have not had to make any adjustments to my bread recipes to allow for the altitude. Evie --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v103.n045.9 --------------- From: "Mike Avery" Subject: Re: baker's percentages Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 08:16:10 -0600 On 5 Oct 2003 POACHER2@aol.com wrote: >Bakers percentage is based on the ingredient that has the largest amount >in the recipe, usually flour. No, baker's percentages are ALWAYS based on flour being 100%. Which ingredient is the largest amount has nothing to do with it. Mike -- Mike Avery MAvery@mail.otherwhen.com --------------- END bread-bakers.v103.n045 --------------- Copyright (c) 1996-2003 Regina Dwork and Jeffrey Dwork All Rights Reserved