Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2003 23:28:27 -0600 (MDT) -------------- BEGIN bread-bakers.v103.n038 -------------- 001 - FREDERICKA COHEN Subject: conversion charts Date: Sun, 31 Aug 2003 02:30:53 -0700 (PDT) This group is fortunate to have an international membership which means recipes come in metric and "American" measurements. I, on the other hand, am not fortunate enough to have an international mathematical mind to translate those measurements. (The markings on the Pyrex cup only help a bit!) Does anyone have a great link for a conversion chart? I'll swap you this terrific yeast chart for it. http://home.earthlink.net/~ggda/convert_yeast_two.htm By the way, I had been a devoted KA user until I tried the 14% bulk bread flour at Wild Oats. It is milled by Arrowhead.Price is 69 cents a pound. I find a flavor difference. (Sort of an "all I want is a bowl of soup or a cup of coffee with this bread" difference). Thanks for any help and just for being there. Fredericka [[Editor's note: From bread-bakers v102.n044.9: >The "How Many?" website: > http://www.unc.edu/~rowlett/units/index.html > >tells all the gory details of units of measurement. This site has a page of links. In the Unit Converter Sites section is: http://www.convertit.com/Go/ConvertIt/ which does conversions online. This site is run by the makers of a shareware units conversion program: http://www.entisoft.com/esunits2.htm There are many unit conversion programs available for download from: http://download.cnet.com/ Search for: units conversion Jeff & Reggie]] --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v103.n038.2 --------------- From: "renzo_ri" Subject: Re: "Moral" dilemma over flour Date: Sun, 31 Aug 2003 08:39:37 -0400 Re: "Moral" dilemma over flour SAM's now sells KA all-purpose flour in 25 pound bags for under $10. That's a bargain compared to the market price for the equivalence of 5-pound bags...and a steal compared to the cost of ordering direct from KA! renzo --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v103.n038.3 --------------- From: Lobo Subject: What is window pane test? Date: Sun, 31 Aug 2003 09:58:17 -0600 OK...I missed the definition. What is the window pane test? Thanks! Lobo --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v103.n038.4 --------------- From: "Mike Avery" Subject: Re: window pane test Date: Sun, 31 Aug 2003 11:38:06 -0600 On Sun, 24 Aug, 2003, lfc@juno.com wrote: >In response to: Brown_D@kids.wustl.edu >>The window pane test doesn't seem to work for whole wheat doughs, at >>least not in my hands. My father theorized that the bran will tend to >>"cut" the gluten strands as you stretch it out for the test. I don't know >>if that really makes sense or not, but it seemed a reasonable enough >>explanation that I stopped worrying about the windowpane test and went >>back to baking bread. >I make whole wheat and wondered why I could knead and knead and not get a >window pane! Hallelujah for that explanation. My bread turns out fine >when it is even textured, a little less sticky and I can make a nice ball >out of it. It just 'feels right.' So why did I chastise myself for not >kneading long enough to get a good window pane? Oh well, thanks so much >for your info. In the end, we don't eat our technique, we don't eat a windowpane. What we eat is bread. And it comes it two varieties, good enough, and not good enough. We select where the line is. However, as to not being able to produce a windowpane with whole wheat flour, I have no trouble doing so. Get a copy of Laurel Robertson's "Breads from Laurel's Kitchen" and follow the directions for her "Loaf for learning". They work. I have four probable reasons you can't produce a windowpane. 1. Low quality flour. Try another, less coarse, flour. 2. Adding too much flour. Whole wheat will get less sticky as you knead it - each time you add flour, you are starting the kneading over from ground zero. 3. Not kneading long enough - remember, each time you add flour, the clock starts over with more flour that needs to be kneaded. 4. Kneading technique. Everyone I know kneads differently, and no two books have the same approach to kneading. Some insist you be gentle, others slam the bread against a counter for 10 minutes. Still, some techniques seem to be better than others. Kneading, even gentle kneading, should result in some physical exertion. Can you make good bread without kneading until you have a windowpane? Of course. Is it necessary to have a windowpane? Of course not. But - it can be done, and I feel that whole wheat breads benefit from the long kneading that results in a good windowpane test. Mike PS - John - "windowpane whiner"? I'd call you a bone lazy baker, except you already call yourself that..... Mike -- Mike Avery MAvery@mail.otherwhen.com --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v103.n038.5 --------------- From: "Raymond Kenyon" Subject: Corn Bred Toast Date: Sun, 31 Aug 2003 15:26:12 -0500 Nichols bakery used to make Corn Bread Squares that could be put in a toaster and with a little butter came out tasting like real warm corn bread. They stopped making them. Anyone have a recipe? --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v103.n038.6 --------------- From: "Raymond Kenyon" Subject: Scale Date: Mon, 1 Sep 2003 08:41:15 -0500 Since many bread recipes now are by weight rater than volume can anyone recommend a good digital (electronic) scale? I have difficulty reading the old dial type. It should display either grams or ounces. --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v103.n038.7 --------------- From: "David" Subject: Campfire bread baking? Date: Sun, 31 Aug 2003 12:24:07 -0700 I would like to make fresh bread over a fire or coals on a backpacking trip. The idea is to carry flour, salt, baking powder and maybe raisons and mix it w/ mtn water and then find a suitable stick to wrap it around. Simple enough but the implementation is tricky. At home using a barbque, I used wire coat hangers but the dough (w/ raisons) was too heavy. Then I used a section of pvc pipe but that began to melt. But by having a water can nearby I doused the pipe and dough whenever it became too hot. After a long while, the outside was crusty (and I ate it) but the inside was still dough. I am learning slowly that thickness and amount are factors not to mention the kind of stick or maybe 2 sticks. I would like to hear from someone w/ experience on the trail who wouldn't mind helping a neophyte w/ the details. Also, I tried taking a bit of my sourdough, adding flour and making a ball and puting that in a plastic sandwich bag. The next morning the sourdough had eaten through the ball and stuck to the bag. Then I put flour in the bag w/ another ball and the next morning it was okay. But I left it for 2 days and it became very clumpy and wouldn't resond to heat. I'm thinking now that a sourdough ball will only last one day in a pack. Tks, Dave --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v103.n038.8 --------------- From: "Sherry" Subject: re: Tibetan Barley Bread Date: Mon, 1 Sep 2003 12:14:09 -0400 >>>Has anyone ever tried to make the Tibetan Barley Bread from the Tassajara Bread Book? It's an unyeasted bread. I've never made unyeasted bread before, and am not sure if my results are "normal". I expect this bread to be quite heavy since there's nothing to cause it to rise, but would appreciate any feedback anyone might have.<<< Hi Cathy, As a big barley fan (there's some resting on the stove right now, for tabouleh), would you consider posting this to the list? Giving credit to the book and author of course. If you haven't made it yet, I will as soon as you post it and let you know how it turns out. Thanks!! Sherry --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v103.n038.9 --------------- From: "Andreas Wagner" Subject: RE: Sea salt and bread baking Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2003 10:34:23 +0200 Steven, I've been following advice from Elizabeth David's English Bread and Yeast Cookery - she recommends weighing the salt and dissolving it in the liquid, before adding it to the rest of the ingredients. I've been following that for years now, always with good results. Weighing the salt would mean that whatever type you use, i.e. coarse or fine, you always end up with the same amount. I have a small letter scale, which works very well for the salt also. Andreas For great holiday accommodation in the south of France visit our website at http://www.midihideaways.com --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v103.n038.10 --------------- From: Brown_D@kids.wustl.edu Subject: Re: Tibetan Barley Bread Date: Mon, 1 Sep 2003 13:54:30 -0500 I've never made the recipe from the Tassajara book, but I have made a Tibetan Barley Bread from "Flatbreads and Flavors" which does include yeast: it's about 50:50 wheat and barley, but you toast the barley first. Even with yeast it is a very heavy bread, but it is as tasty as it is heavy, and makes great toast. Diane Brown in St. Louis --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v103.n038.11 --------------- From: "Gabriel Filloy" Subject: Acidity problems Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2003 15:30:35 -0600 I have been able to create the sourdough bread I wanted. Using a starter made initially from grapes my bread is great, the only thing I have not been able to control is the acidity of the bread. I make my dough and let it rise for about 6 hours at room temperature, then I roll the dough and place it in a wicker basket with a rough linen canvas and cover it with plastic, place it in the refrigerator for 24 hours, then I take it out of the refrigerator and let it stand at room temperature for about 1 hour and in then goes in the oven at 425 F in a Dutch oven for 50 minutes. Can someone help me on how to control the acidity? Gabriel Filloy Costa Rica --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v103.n038.12 --------------- From: "Allen Cohn" Subject: RE: Differences in Flour Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2003 18:19:16 -0700 Concerning the differences in flours, see the attached link for an interesting article "How Different Flours Perform" from the San Francisco Baking Institute on the topic. The only measurement of flour attributes that I previously knew of was protein content...but there are apparently many more measurements to be made (such as ash content, whatever that is). There's even a lab in France that specializes in such measurements! http://www.sfbi.com/bindocs/Fall2002.pdf Allen Allen Cohn allen@cohnzone.com --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v103.n038.13 --------------- From: "Allen Cohn" Subject: RE: Consistent results with homemade bread flour and Giusto's Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2003 18:19:18 -0700 Sorry...just catching up on past issues... Sorry if I mentioned this before, but Anita's addition of powdered diastatic malt to Giusto's flour is particularly important... Most flours have malt already added (check the ingredient list on your bag). But I called up Giusto's and found out that they don't! Diastatic malt contains the enzymes that break down the broken starch molecules into sugars and acids. This provides food for yeast and the sweet & sour taste we like on bread. Hope this is of interest. Allen --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v103.n038.14 --------------- From: Ed Okie Subject: Tips & tricks Date: Fri, 05 Sep 2003 10:10:21 -0400 From the Bone-Idle-Lazy pantry of passion: "Slash dough tops, or not to slash" is an interesting question. It popped up recently in another website forum. Responses were, as one might expect, passionate (the subject ranks right up there with yeast "type" and baking stones). One theme prevailed: the slash-opening allows dough to rise better in the oven, interior dough has room to expanded. Truth is: the slash doesn't make a bit of difference. Side-by-side tests in my kitchen consistently show "same as" or "rise higher -without- a slash." Esthetics and tradition is the reason for slashing. Your tummy won't experience a bit of difference. In the same arena: "skinned-over somewhat dry dough exteriors," the dryness allegedly preventing dough expansion during the baking phase. Rules say "the need" (and value of) "water-misting" dough prior to baking softens the exterior and makes it more elastic. Also required, "generating steam" (various methods) in the home oven (ice cubes, tossed boiling water, sprayers, etc.) Steam plus directly misting the tops allegedly creates higher and better oven spring (dough rise) during baking. Truth is: it doesn't. Even the notoriously difficult and cantankerous French baguette - bakes superbly well without misting, steaming, even when starting with a slightly dry skin. Yes, this is directly opposite traditional advice. Suggestion: give it a try and see what happens. Very likely you will be surprised. Most valued wisdom worth sharing: simplicity. KISS. Keep It Simple, Stupid. View complexity and a multitude of "necessary" steps as something to avoid (or reason not to buy a book). The baking guru who advocates "exotic" techniques and ingredients... likely has too much flour dust on his or her glasses (or is named Slick Willy and trying to sell you something). When exploring new baking techniques and methods, stick to baking one bread. Bake it repeatedly changing only one thing at a time. Again, a query on another website forum: "I just baked (four different bread-types in four days) and am having problems learning how to bake." I rolled my eyes and let that query pass. Explaining the obvious wasn't worth the time. A reminder to those using "no-spam" addresses posting a question on Reggie's excellent bread-bakers list: we can't respond directly to your question (and in more depth) when faced with frustrating "mail non-delivery" bounce-backs. A few weeks prior I answered a query about flour types, brands, etc. 20-minutes of user-specific writing went down the tube, the "non-delivery, we do not accept mail." Same arena, question variation: "Which (additive) should I use (dough improvers, enhancers, additives and various "secret" ingredients). Shared wisdom: toss 'em all in the trash. Don't buy 'em in the first place. Learn to work and understand basic ingredients, the techniques of working with four basic elements: flour, water, yeast and salt. The variations possible are enormous. Most enhancers and additives are often a short-trip to nowhere, band-aids to underlying problems (imagined or otherwise). Solid advice for those wanting to advance in baking: Weighing ingredients is by far the best method of constructing bread. Though the expense of a scale ($40-60) may seem frivolous - once used, you'll never go back to the "volume-cup" method. After you use a scale, "How did I ever get along without it?" will cross your lips. Beyond the accuracy issue (consistency), simplicity and less things to clean are extra but significant benefits... true Bone-Idle-Lazy goals in life. Will using a scale guarantee "perfection"? Absolutely not, but it is so-o-o much better! Example: measuring a cup of flour by - volume - (the physical cup) is highly variable, one of those "it depends" instances. Use the "dip & sweep" method and one cup weighs about 150 grams. Sprinkle flour into the same cup and it's about 120 grams. Sift the same flour into the same cup - only about 90 grams! Which is correct? All of 'em! Catch-22: the recipe you're reading well might be different than your cup-measuring method (often only mentioned in one brief sentence, "buried on page 3 of a 300-page book"). Highly regarded Cook's Illustrated magazine uses "dip & sweep," Maggie Glezer's "Artisan Baking Across America" book uses it. But many recipes use the "sprinkle" method. Interchange one for the other and significant baking errors result. You end up saying "but I followed the recipe exactly." Consider a recipe calling for say, 5 cups: 150x5=750 grams. But if you're sprinkling flour into the cup you're using 120x5=600 grams. The former is asking for - more than - a full cup of extra flour... that you didn't use! Wonder why the recipe failed? Grams-vs-ounces. BIL (Bone-Idle-Lazy) club members on both sides of the pond (ocean) use grams. We swear by 'em. It's simpler. It's easier. And there's less swearing. With grams the number-flow stays consistent and easy to understand (doesn't jump between pounds and ounces, or fractions of an ounce; most scales "stop" at 16 oz and heavier amounts are displayed in pounds plus ounces). If you need to proportionately increase or decrease with grams - percentages is a piece of cake (pun intended). Attempt the same with ounces and pounds - a headache, and very error prone. "But I'm not a math-whiz" is the cry of anguish. Answer: keep a cheap hand calculator next to the scale. And since you're weighing everything, it's a great chance to clear space and get rid of all those measuring cups and bowls. (I place the machine's empty mixing bowl directly on the scale and dump each ingredient into the bowl, liquids are last (the dry ingredients blended prior to adding liquids). No other containers are used; milk from the carton goes direct to bowl, same with olive oil, honey, etc. Water is added using the hose-spray at the sink. Other tradition-changing methods: I never oil my mixing bowl for rising dough. After the mix period, the dough stays in the bowl for whatever rise (ferment) time required. Plastic wrap covers the bowl. The "Stretch-Tite" (yellow box) brand is the best I've come across, less than $3 for 250 feet; clings better than any other brand, and is heavy duty in thickness. Highly recommended. Do BIL members weigh token amounts such as yeast and salt? No. Scales aren't accurate in those low weight ranges (1 gram of yeast as an example). Keep one set of measuring spoons at hand. The most functional and accurate set I've used is made by "Endurance" called Spice Measuring Spoons. They have extra-long, 4" handles and narrow rectangular heads that reach easily into small jars. The set (on a small chain) includes 1/8, 1/4, 1/2, 3/4, 1 tsp, 1 Tbsp (about $8-10). A worthy investment. Silicone baking mats - another "they're a dream" BIL staple. Frankly, years ago I thought they were just another gimmick. They're "the real deal." Simpler. Easier. Cleaner. Place 'em in the bottom of whatever tray or cookie sheet being used. Reuse 'em forever, untouched. The thicker French Exopat Matfer is about $20; I prefer (by far) a less expensive version made in China named SiliconeZone ($15) - it is paper-thin, red border, almost fragile looking. Thinness IS the major asset: the ability to conform to any tray shape. I use 'em in 3-slot perforated-metal baguette trays. Never has the bread bonded to the mat; wish I could say the same when dough rests directly on the non-stick perforated metal surface (even when using messy sprays). Bottom browning of the bread: equal-to or better-than the bare metal! Bonus with the silicone sheet: I like baguettes with corn meal on the bottom, the "extra-crunch" factor. Sprinkle corn meal on the silicone sheet before placing the dough on top. Result: Not a bit of mess with corn meal dropping or burning on the oven's floor! Haven't had to clean the oven in a year! A Bone-Idler's dream. Handling hot trays, etc. Best product Bone-Idler's have found: Lowes or Home Depot - buy a pair of Welder's gloves! About $10-12 for a pair. The gripping ability (fingers, not a mitt) vastly exceeds that of a slippery cotton mitten (or miserable "hot pad.") Baking tip: books and magazines often specify "unsalted butter." Hint from the BIL crew: using unsalted butter isn't important. Doesn't make a bit of difference in your breads, salted or unsalted butter. It's laboratory-technical gibberish, in relative terms a microscopic measurement. To wit: salted butter with a "serving size of 1 Tbsp" weighs 14 grams. The salt content of 1 Tbsp is listed as "Sodium 90 mg" ("mg" means milligrams - 1000ths of one gram.) If the recipe uses 1 Tbsp of butter you've added 90 mg of extra salt. But, the recipe also calls for 1 Tbsp of salt (weight is 18 grams) - in math terms that is the same as 18,000 mg of salt!) Do you think butter's 90mg-worth of salt makes a twit of difference out of the 18,000 mg of salt added? Not a bit. It's like saying I missed two blades of grass when mowing the whole yard. Use whatever butter is on hand, salted or unsalted. - Ed Okie --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v103.n038.15 --------------- From: Fredericka Cohen Subject: mystery pan Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2003 17:52:01 -0700 (PDT) While on a thrift shop expedition...the only way to shop!...I discovered (and purchased) a mysterious lidded tinned pan.(No manufacturer's name or sign) It is 13 1/2 inches long and 3 5/8 inches deep and hold 8 cups of whatever unknown matter went into it. Did I mention that it is a half circle shape? Because it doesn't seem as heavy as the usual baking pan, it might have been used for a frozen mold. I want to try it as a pain de mie (pullman loaf) but I can't find a recipe for it or instructions for the pan. I know the lid is removed before the baking is completed (after oven rise?) and I need a bread with a fine texture. Anybody have 1)identification, 2) recipe, 3 instructions? If not, I'll just turn my 45 cent purchase into a place to dump coupons. Thanks, Fredericka --------------- END bread-bakers.v103.n038 --------------- Copyright (c) 1996-2003 Regina Dwork and Jeffrey Dwork All Rights Reserved