Date: Fri, 16 May 2003 23:58:19 -0600 (MDT) -------------- BEGIN bread-bakers.v103.n024 -------------- 001 - Tarheel_Boy@webtv.net (Sk - Hamburgers and hotdogs... 002 - "Beverly Collins" Subject: Why loaves rise differently when baking Date: Sat, 10 May 2003 20:07:21 -0500 >"Bakers: Though I've been making bread for twenty years, I have yet to >figure out why some loaves rise quite a bit as they bake, and some hardly >at all. I can't find a pattern to this; all have been allowed to rise to >the subjective point of being "light" before being baked. The flour >doesn't seem to make a difference, either. Any ideas?" >- Maureen There are so many reasons. Here's a few: 1: Strength of gluten--the higher the gluten content of the flour, the more the rise. 2: Amount of enzyme--too much enzyme (from sprouted wheat) can weaken the dough. Flours can vary from purchase to purchase depending on the quality control of the company;they also can vary year to year--this is usually not a problem but you can get a sack on occasion that reacts differently. 3: Water content--not as much rise if very high or very low. 4: Amount of first (and second) rising--if you overrise the first or second time in the bowl, there'll be less oomph the final time around. 5: Amount of final rising--rising to double in volume will give optimal oven spring. If over risen, there's won't be much oven spring. If under 2X volume, you can get a lot of oven spring as well as break or "shred" at the side of the loaf where the top crust breaks from the side. 6: Heavier flours or additions to the dough cut the rise. 7: Moisture in oven: Steam helps oven spring. 8: Yeast activity: The more active the yeast, the more the rise. Quantity of live yeast can affect (age/activeness of yeast). 9: Dough temperature out of mixer--temperatures above 80 F start damaging the structure 10: Dough temperature going into oven--cool (not cold) doughs expand more because of the expansion of air during heating 11: Temperature at which the yeast was dissolved--if using dry yeast--at ideal temperature the walls of the yeast cell hydrate and seal up. At too high temperature, yeast is killed off. At too low temperature, yeast cell contents leak out and the glutathione release relaxes the dough. 12: Shape of bread pan--sloped sides give more spring. 13: Material of bread pan--metals that conduct heat better will result in better spring. 14: Crust or hardening on bread during rising will cut oven spring. 15: Making the bread by recipe rather than by feel: If you use the same amount of water when the weather is humid as you do when the weather is dry, you will have a different consistency dough, because flour is hydroscopic--taking on water when it is damp, and giving it up when it is dry. Heaviness of structure will affect the rise. Bev --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v103.n024.3 --------------- From: "mike fuller" Subject: Question on Elasticity Date: Sat, 10 May 2003 15:15:25 -0400 How can I get my breads more elastic, stretchy and chewy, instead of crumbly, like muffins? Thank you, Mike in Havana --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v103.n024.4 --------------- From: Nifcon@aol.com Subject: Oven Rise Date: Sun, 11 May 2003 07:48:29 EDT >Bakers: Though I've been making bread for twenty years, I have yet to >figure out why some loaves rise quite a bit as they bake, and some hardly >at all. >- Maureen Maureen, You are entering an area of contention and mystery when you start trying to work out what makes a loaf "spring" in the oven. The best bakers in the world are hard put to it explaining why two, apparently identical, loaves will expand by different amounts when baked. Large commercial bread operations can produce bread that "springs" much more predictably than a home baker's loaves but they have extremely tight control over the variables that can bedevil amateurs The general rule of thumb is, the more the loaf is proofed, the less the expansion in the oven, relative to the volume just before baking. (very long proofed dough will sometimes show a negative spring) but the final volume of the loaf after baking and cooling , relative to the UNPROOFED dough's volume is the important aspect. It is instructive and even, possibly, interesting, to take a simple dough (I performed this exercise using Peter Reinhart's Poolish Baguette dough) and treat it as normal, divide it into, say, 6 loaves, (I made 6 baguettes), weighing the divided dough so that the loaves are as close to identical as possible, shaping and leaving to proof until the dough is, as close as you can judge, 1/2 hour away from the state you would normally consider ready for the oven. Then put just one loaf in the oven, bake off as normal, and 1/2 hour after the first one goes in the oven, the temperature will have recovered and the second loaf can be baked. Keep on baking a single loaf every 1/2 hour until all 6 are baked. Use the same water/misting/slashing regime for all bakings. The differences between the finished breads will be marked. Will this exercise help you to predict oven expansion in the future? I found that the feeling for volume increase that I gained from the exercise allowed me to predict oven spring correctly about once in 5 - 6 bakes, rather than 1 in 10. But only for the particular dough I had used for the exercise - I suspect you would have to repeat the exercise for all the breads you bake, a mammoth task for my repertoire. I would say that trying to predict oven expansion accurately in the home baker's kitchen is at best, futile, and, at worst, infuriating. John --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v103.n024.5 --------------- From: ATroi37324@aol.com Subject: Overnight Caramel Pull-Aparts Date: Sun, 11 May 2003 22:15:49 EDT I made the Cinnabon recipe this weekend and divided the dough in half and made half the recipe with Korintje cinnamon and half with Vietnamese Cinnamon. Both were delicious but I think the Vietnamese cinnamon was slightly better. It was expensive - I paid $5 for 1.20 oz. at Whole Foods. I also took 1 cup of whipping cream and added 1/2 cup of powdered sugar and poured it in 2 round pans and then set the cinnamon rolls over this. Scrumptious, as if I needed to add even more calories. I also made the Overnight Caramel Pull-Aparts (recipe follows) but used the Cinnabon dough instead of using frozen bread dough called for in the recipe. This recipe also came out very good. But don't make the mistake I made and divide the dough between 2 bundt pans. All the top rolls were falling off and out of the pan. Luckily I had put the bundt pan over a cookie sheet. I also drizzled the top with Cream Cheese Frosting left over from the Cinnabons. Overnight Caramel Pull-Aparts 2 loaves (1 lb. each) frozen bread dough, thawed (I used Cinnabon dough recipe) 1/2 cup sugar 1 Tbsp cinnamon 3/4 cup finely chopped pecans or walnuts 3/4 cup butter, melted 3 5/8 oz (1 pkg) butterscotch pudding and pie filling (not instant) 1/2 cup firmly packed brown sugar Grease a 12 cup bundt pan. (I suggest for the Cinnabon recipe using 2 bundt pans). Cut each thawed loaf into 8 slices. (I rolled out Cinnabon recipe into 1/2 inch thick rectangle and cut rounds with a biscuit cutter). Combine sugar with cinnamon and nuts into small bowl. Dip each slice of dough into melted butter, then coat with cinnamon/sugar mixture. Stand slices upright in prepared pan. (I just set rounds around the pan and on top of each other). Sprinkle any remaining cinnamon mixture over rolls, then sprinkle with dry pudding mix. Stir brown sugar into remaining melted butter, pour over rolls. Cover tightly with plastic wrap, refrigerate several hours or overnight. Let stand at room temperature for 10 to 15 minutes. (I just covered and let rise for about 40 minutes). Bake in preheated 325 F oven for 35 to 40 minutes. Invert onto serving dish. (I drizzled with Cream Cheese Frosting). Rosemary --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v103.n024.6 --------------- From: "Barrie J. Lax" Subject: Re: All crust in the middle Date: Sun, 11 May 2003 19:43:34 -0400 >From: evelyngreco@onebox.com > >In Italy I ran into a roll that was all crust and nothing in the >middle. As a butter lover, this was perfect for me, all crust, no middle. Evelyn .. I really had a good laugh when I read your message, it brought back many memories. This was the way Italian bread was /is, often mostly crust ..otherwise appearing as if a mouse had tunnelled his way through. Most bread today is sold by weight in Italy for this reason, people felt ripped off and the government was forced to act. Exactly how they get it this way is beyond me, more a question I think of yeast used, water content, and baking technique. I lived for a time in Milano and this is how all my bread and rolls seemed to be ... there were other types available at the larger stores, but at the store where I bought my processed meat, these were the only kind available. Which brings back another memory. Years ago I visited a small town in Nova Scotia and sat down to a lunch of fish and chips. The fish was plump and golden, very tasty, the only problem is that there was hardly any fish inside the batter !!! You certainly couldn't tell from the outside, only when you cut into it did you notice it was mostly hollow. I was most impressed, I asked the owner to tell me how he managed to produce fried fish with so little fish .. even offered to put together a franchise to sell the stuff. He wouldn't bite, and in fact I think he felt insulted. I was only sad.. I missed my chance to make a fortune, making fish without fish!! Barrie J. Lax Ottawa, Ontario Canada thank you -- Evelyn Greco evelyngreco@onebox.com - email (858) 860-6401 x5151 - voicemail/fax --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v103.n024.7 --------------- From: Bruno Maj Michael G Subject: German Rolls Date: Tue, 13 May 2003 10:03:56 -0400 Just joined this site and think it's great. Don't know how it actually works but will try. I have been trying for years to replicate the crusty german brotchen you find pretty commonly over there. I have tried all kinds of things including: a. Two Fibrament baking stones (one top/one bottom) b. Lava Rocks in a pan in the bottom of my oven (to produce steam). c. Spritzing water into the oven during the 1st few minutes to augment the steam. d. Folding egg whites into the dough. e. Wet doughs. f. Longer and also shorter rise times. g. One or two rises and then forming. h. Ascorbic acid, lecethin, corn oil additions i. Egg white washes I could keep going but nothing I've tried seems to work or produce a product that is even close. The Brotchen are crusty, crackly, very high, nice brown color, etc. Can anyone provide a good recipe or technique to assist in this matter? I do think it probably has something to do with dough conditioners but that's about as far as I've gotten. Thanks! --------------- END bread-bakers.v103.n024 --------------- Copyright (c) 1996-2003 Regina Dwork and Jeffrey Dwork All Rights Reserved