Date: Sat, 3 May 2003 16:22:00 -0600 (MDT) -------------- BEGIN bread-bakers.v103.n022 -------------- 001 - Carolyn Schaffner - re: copyright issues 008 - evelyngreco@onebox.com - RE: all crust no middle 009 - "Matt" Subject: Yeasty/Word of the Day Date: Sat, 26 Apr 2003 06:22:17 -0400 You might be interested in this, from Merriam-Webster Carolyn Schaffner in Buffalo, NY ******************************* The Word of the Day for Apr 26 is: yeasty \YEE-stee\ adjective 1 : of, relating to, or resembling yeast : having the froth of yeast or one suggesting it 2 a : immature, unsettled *b : marked by change c : full of vitality d : frivolous Example sentence: "In that yeasty time in the mid-sixties when I went to work as a reporter in Paris, the world was about to pop," wrote Raymond Sokolov in his book Why We Eat What We Eat. Did you know? The word "yeast" has existed in English for as long as the language has existed. Spellings have varied over time — in Middle English it was "yest" and in Old English "gist" or "geist" — but the word's meaning has remained basically the same for centuries. in its earliest documented uses, "yeast" referred to a creamy or yellowish froth that forms on the top of fermented beverages such as beers or ales (not surprising, given that one of the first commercial uses of yeast was in the preparation of such drinks), and that sense is still used today. In its first documented English uses in the 1500s, the adjective "yeasty" described people or things with a similarly yellowish or frothy appearance. *Indicates the sense illustrated in the example sentence. --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v103.n022.2 --------------- From: "Jazzbel" Subject: Re: Copyright Issues Date: Sat, 26 Apr 2003 08:25:29 -0400 (Eastern Daylight Time) "Nada se faz, Nada se Cria, Tudo se Copia" -- "Chacrinha" A late Brazilian comedian used to say facetiously that nothing is made, nothing is created, everything is copied. People do not create recipes, they interpret them. Just like performers do not create the American Anthem at every Superbowl. I think the issues of copyright have been discussed previously on this list, Common sense dictates that copyright protection in the case of recipes is distinct from that of the text of "The Old Man and The Sea". List of ingredients or method description cannot be copyrighted, only parts of a recipe which would be creative writing. How could Jazzbel copyright french bread? 6 cups of flour, 2 tsp salt, 1/2 oz fresh yeast, 2 1/4 cups warm water. "Put the ingredients in the machine in the order recommended by the manufacturer"? Where feasible I will quote the source of the recipe I used, such as Panettone by Carol Field, Portuguese Sweetbread By Peter Reinhart. This is no different from what foodtv.com does in their recipes ("recipe courtesy of Emeril Lagasse"-- this does not mean that the creator of the recipe was Emeril Lagasse). In defense of Rosemary, I have to say that she always offers her interpretations of the recipes she posts, with detailed instructions of changes made to the recipe-- her interpretation, therefore her recipe. Also many times websites and other bread baking lists, where these recipes are posted offer no credits, so one cannot pass them on. Remember, the reverse also happens, many authors use mailing lists to obtain ideas, and very few credit where the ideas came from. To keep recipes proprietary, well, I think you have to do like KFC, don't write a book about it. Later, Jazzbel --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v103.n022.3 --------------- From: Epwerth15@aol.com Subject: Re: Jazzbel's Bagel disaster Date: Sat, 26 Apr 2003 10:33:44 EDT Regarding Jazzbel's Bagel disaster: I moved to the Eastern Sierra's of California from Michigan (Detroit suburbs) about 4 years ago. Knowing ahead of time that it would be impossible to get decent, let alone good, bagel here, I started making them myself, using Peter's recipe. They were perfect, even on the first try! They were the same as the New York bagel that I am very familiar with .... wonderful crust and a great, chewy interior. I did notice, however, that the ones that were on the bottom shelf of my fridge came out slightly better than the ones higher up, so checking the temperature of your refrigerator makes sense. Also, your dough should be quite stiff ... slightly tacky. Try again, Jazzbel. They're definitely worth the effort, which is really quite minimal ... Evie Werthmann --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v103.n022.4 --------------- From: Epwerth15@aol.com Subject: Re: bagels without holes Date: Sat, 26 Apr 2003 10:35:29 EDT In a message dated 4/26/2003 12:19:02 AM Pacific Standard Time, jhm@webtv.net (Jo helen matheson) writes: > From: jhm@webtv.net (Jo helen matheson) > Subject: bagels > Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2003 18:57:31 -0500 (CDT) > > Can you make bagels with out boilng them? If so, would some one post a > recipe? Thanks so much. > > jo helen Not really. Without boiling they're not really bagel .... they're rolls with a hole in the middle! Evie Werthmann --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v103.n022.5 --------------- From: "Ken Vaughan" Subject: Over retarded bread Date: Sat, 26 Apr 2003 09:30:25 -0800 I thought I would pop in on the topic of bread that has had extra opportunity to rise. Got back to Alaska yesterday from a weeks travel and noted that the hearth bread dough (based on a Beth Hensberger recipe and made on dough cycle in the bread machine) that I had made and placed in the Fridge 10 days ago was still chilling. Got it out to rise and went to work for the rest of the day. After about 8 hours sitting in the sink, the bag had gas but the bread had not materially changed shape. Spread the dough out on a 1/2 sheet pan with silpat pad and cut the dough into squares with a dough knife (dull). After heating the oven and baking the 2 pounds of dough for 25 minutes I had nice dense foccicia shaped pieces of bread. Not hockey puck, but very dense. Sliced one of the pieces and made a ham sandwich for my spouse when she got back here after a week of travel in interior Alaska. She raved about the flavor. Thin shaping of an over risen dough to a pizza or foccicia shape can result in a edible and tasty bread that just is not a high riser. I have not use this long a storage for dough before, but have used over risen dough to make a naan form on a hot griddle successfully. Conclusion -- old dough or over risen dough can make good bread, but not a high rising loaf. Ken Vaughan -- in Juneau where spring has finally come and the leaves are coming out. --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v103.n022.6 --------------- From: Tarheel_Boy@webtv.net (Skallywagg) Subject: Too much yeast ... Date: Sat, 26 Apr 2003 14:22:33 -0400 (EDT) I'm surprised that no one mentioned the obvious: Too much yeast makes your bread taste "yeasty." I use SAF Instant Yeast and have for quite some time. It is potent stuff. So much so, that I can decrease the amount called for by 1/4 to 1/2 teaspoon. Bob the Tarheel Baker --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v103.n022.7 --------------- From: Lobo Subject: re: copyright issues Date: Sat, 26 Apr 2003 12:45:54 -0600 You wrote to the bread list re: copyright and I do agree with you. I have a few comments though. snip >It also puts me in hot water (not tepid, not cold .... hot!) with editors >who hire me to write a bread feature and then see exclusive recipes I >developed for them on these sorts of lists. It discredits me .... and while >I cannot control it - it has caused horrific problems with print and online >editors and in fact, negates my freelance work. snip Your editors are very naive if they are blaming you for this. It does show that people are reading their websites. AND how on earth can it be YOUR fault if people like your recipes and copy them?? >snip >As I said - perhaps other colleagues feel differently about copyright >issues and recipe sharing at this level than I do, but it would not hurt >at all -to inform people, on this very special list, BEFORE you publish >their recipes in a broadcast email. snip I just looked up the BetterBaking site and the maple bread recipe (it sounds like a wonderful cinnamon bread!!). When I clicked on "print version" for the recipe, there was no credit to yourself or the site included. It would be an excellent idea to include a copyright notice at the bottom when the recipe is posted on your site and, of course, people should request permission before posting it elsewhere. I hope you will post some recipes to the bread bakers list. It's a great group and I've gotten some wonderful recipes off it. Lobo --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v103.n022.8 --------------- From: evelyngreco@onebox.com Subject: RE: all crust no middle Date: Sat, 26 Apr 2003 16:10:08 -0500 In Italy I ran into a roll that was all crust and nothing in the middle. As a butter lover, this was perfect for me, all crust no middle. I asked how to make these these rolls, but they told me I needed a special machine. I didn't believe them for they never pointed out the machine in their kitchen. Does anyone know how to make these rolls. I hope I'm going about the right way to ask this questions. thank you -- Evelyn Greco evelyngreco@onebox.com - email (858) 860-6401 x5151 - voicemail/fax --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v103.n022.9 --------------- From: "Matt" Subject: RE: kneading time Date: Sat, 26 Apr 2003 22:20:48 -0400 >Here's the query. The bread recipes in the instruction book call for a 2 >minute mixing time and then into the rising bowl. No kneading time >is mentioned. > >Could this be correct? Has any one done this? This machine is 325 watts >and the old one was 300. Fredericka, You will need to knead the dough for the normal time 10 to 12 min, until you can pull a window. To make good bread it is very important to develop the dough. I too have the 325 watt model at home, but I use it for cookies and cakes and mix the bread dough by hand. I find it comes out better that way. Regards, Matt --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v103.n022.10 --------------- From: dalepadams@juno.com Subject: durum and semolina Date: Sun, 27 Apr 2003 21:49:15 -0400 Hello to all, A couple of weeks ago someone asked about the difference between durum wheat and semolina. I am offering additional information on that query. There are six classes of wheat grown on a large scale in the US. They are hard red spring, hard white, soft red winter, soft white, and durum. The so-called gold and white flour contains both bran and endosperm from white wheat. Durum, from the Latin word for hard, is the hardest of all wheat varieties. When durum is milled, bran is removed and endosperm is left. The endosperm of durum wheat is hard enough to hold together, unlike most wheats, which have a powdery endosperm flour. The result is called semolina. It is amber colored and larger than those of other wheat classes. It is used to make pasta. Also unique to durum is the fact that the endosperm is not creamy white but yellow, giving pasta its pleasing yellow color. Semolina is the principle raw ingredient in pasta and couscous. It is mixed with water to form a stiff dough. It is then forced through dies to create pasta's characteristic shapes. A rotating knife cuts the extruded pasta into desired lengths. Then the shaped pasta is dried to 12-13% water, allowing the pasta to be stored. A standard bushel of wheat weighs 60 pounds and that gives enough semolina for about 42 pounds of pasta, or about 210 servings. I hope this is interesting reading for all and not more than you ever wanted to know about durum wheat. Dale --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v103.n022.11 --------------- From: "Leigh Davisson" Subject: Re: Sue Ellen's question Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2003 14:03:12 -0700 I don't know anything about Mister Loaf, but I almost always make my bread in a bread machine and then finish it in the oven. I make all sorts of shapes of breads; baguettes, eight braid loaf, pan de mie, standard loaves, round ... For many people using a bread machine is heresy, but it works for me. I let the machine knead it and let it have the first rise in the bread machine. I then take it out and proceed with the recipe from there. A couple of things to watch for in a bread machine; 1) make sure not to overload it with more than the recommended weight of ingredients 2) check the dough often while it is kneading. You do not want to over mix the dough. It gets too hot and is kneaded too much. Kneading it the proper amount will give you a far superior loaf to one that is over or under kneaded. 3) Some machines like you to add the ingredients in a certain order. Some like flour first; mine likes the liquids added first. 4) Some machines are better than others. Some get the dough too hot. You will have to keep an eye on your machine and make sure it behaves. Play around with the amount of time you knead in the bread machine. As you said, you're only out a bit of dough if your bread isn't perfect. Good luck. Leigh --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v103.n022.12 --------------- From: L26LALA@aol.com Subject: Dough Cycle Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2003 00:49:16 EDT Hi, I would like to make the bread dough in my bread machine, and bake it in my oven. Can you please tell me what degree do you bake the bread, and for how long? Also, when you make a 1 1/2 lb. loaf, how many loaf pans do you use? Thank You, Yolanda --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v103.n022.13 --------------- From: "Margaret G. Cope" Subject: Refurbish Kitchen Aid? Date: Fri, 2 May 2003 15:54:41 -0400 Does anyone know where one can have a 25 year old Kitchen Aid refurbished? It is a work horse of a machine and is OK but it no longer works at low speed and needs abit of tuning. --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v103.n022.14 --------------- From: Reggie Dwork Subject: New bread machine cookbook review Date: Sat, 03 May 2003 14:35:49 -0700 Many cookbook authors come and go. It seems to me that this is particularly true of bread cookbook authors. But there are two authors who have tremendous staying power. Their bread machine cookbooks have set the standards and are referenced over and over again by beginning through advanced bread machine bakers. They are, of course, Lois Conway and Linda Rehburg authors of the Bread Machine Magic series. "Bread Machine Magic Revised Edition" has just been published by St. Martin's Press. There are 138 recipes in the book, every recipe has measurements for 1, 1 1/2 and 2 lb loaves and nutritional information. The first section of the book is devoted to imparting to beginning bakers important information regarding the different types of flour and the various ingredients like liquids, fats, sweeteners, eggs, etc., that can go into a loaf of bread. It continues with a note for people on special diets, tips for baking the perfect loaf, information for high altitude baking, a section on storage of the variety of ingredients and wraps up with "About Our Recipes". The book then goes into the 138 recipes. All are laid out clearly, with crust and bake cycle recommendations and even suggestions for optional bake cycles. As usual and as expected of this wonderful duo this Revised Edition of Bread Machine Magic is exceptional. It is on the shelves in bookstores now. I would recommend getting one before the crowd beats you to them. Reggie Usual disclaimer applies, I don't work for St Martin's Press, Lois Conway or Linda Rehberg. I make no profit from the sales of their books ... I just enjoy them!!) --------------- END bread-bakers.v103.n022 --------------- Copyright (c) 1996-2003 Regina Dwork and Jeffrey Dwork All Rights Reserved