Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2003 00:56:43 -0700 (MST) -------------- BEGIN bread-bakers.v103.n014 -------------- 001 - David - The Baker's Percentage koan & Beer Bread. 002 - "renzo64" - re Sun Dried Tomatoes 005 - "Gloria J. Martin" Subject: The Baker's Percentage koan & Beer Bread. Date: Sat, 08 Mar 2003 04:08:14 -0600 Well I love Mr. Reinhart's books, and the percentage system will give me the freedom to scale my own recipe's, once I get it in my head. It's awesome that he shares the professional method, & I want to learn it so I can use smaller amounts, and not throw 6 cups of flour out the window when I destroy one. But I abhor math, and have to say I got a real headache from 4 hours of re reading the formula over and over, twice. I felt like Woopie Goldberg in Jumping Jack Flash and kept repeating, "Peter Peter speak english"! But I know the problem is mine, because I am stupid lol. I like, forgot how to divide 10 years out of high school. Thank god for calculators. But I believe that when I finally figure this out, a light will go off, and I'll achieve nirvana, or at least be able to make great bread in any size I choose. His formula is like the philosophers stone, and I really want to master it. I'll buy another scale, but I also realized I was making it harder than it seems. It was the conversions from decimal to fractions that really messed me up, (because my scale only has fractions), and again it's my fault. I had better luck figuring out the water, than the yeast and salt, and I think at the small batches I am trying to use, the latter 2 are a big problem. And my scale won't measure that low. I had to use half and quarter spoon sizes. I'll figure it out, though I wish Mr. Reinhart would have drawn out each ingredient formula completely. He does the water to flour percentage for you, and converts it into ounces, but so far that I can find, he only gives you a percentage for the yeast and sugar, and the size difference is so great I can't use the water example to figure out the yeast and salt in ounces, (or fractions of). If I had a beef that would be the only one. But if I wasn't lousy at math it would be enough. But I treasure the books. Linda, I played with using beer in bread not long after I started, last summer. But I think my lack of experience made it difficult to tell how well it worked. A couple of them came out great though. I just substituted Bell Haven Scotch Ale, (the bottle), for most of the water, and also in the poolish. It's a sweet malty beer, (yum). I brew all grain beer once in a while, and want to try some of my own in a recipe eventually. David. --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v103.n014.2 --------------- From: "renzo64" Subject: Alla Rolla Request for Panettone Date: Sat, 8 Mar 2003 07:03:19 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time) This is a flavorful and unusually moist panettone. It is terrific toasted! renzo in ri * Exported from MasterCook * Panettone Recipe By :Patrizia Gerardi Serving Size : 0 Preparation Time :0:00 Categories : Amount Measure Ingredient -- Preparation Method -------- ------------ -------------------------------- 6 eggs 2 cups sugar 1 cup corn oil 1 cup marsalla wine 1 teaspoon any extract -- vanilla or lemon 5 1/2 teaspoons baking powder 2 teaspoons salt 4 3/4 cups flour zest of 2 lemons 2 tablespoons anise seeds 3/4 cup raisins -- optional Preheat oven to 350F. Grease a tube pan and set aside. In large bowl, mix together the first 5 ingredients. SLOWLY, add the remaining ingredients. Gently pour into prepared pan. Bake for 1 1/2 hours. Description: "Traditional Italian dessert bread." - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v103.n014.3 --------------- From: Mavis Nolte Subject: KGO Beer Bread Date: Sat, 08 Mar 2003 08:56:11 -0800 >Here's a recipe I gleaned off of the net. Josh said he doesn't >know where "radio" comes from, but I bet his great-grandmother got the >recipe from the radio. This recipe is very similar (possibly adapted from) to the recipe my mother got from KGO San Francisco in the 70's. My mother was a bit of an insomniac & she used to keep a radio in her bed. She'd listen to KGO on an "atmospheric bounce" in the middle of the night & get a good signal on Vancouver Island (on the Canadian West Coast). The only time she was ever able to pick it up during the day was when we had a major power outage & the radio waves were empty! KGO Beer Bread 3 cups self-raising flour 2 tsp. sugar 1 can (12 oz.) American beer If you use Canadian beer you will get an awful bloody overflowing mess in the bottom of the oven! Mix as little as possible. Put in a greased loaf pan (my mother used recycled head cheese pans - that's a whole other story & it comes in plastic now - that were about a 1 lb. loaf size). Let stand 15 minutes at room temperature. Bake 1 hour & 10 minutes at 350F. If you want to add 1/2 cup of grated cheese (sharp cheddar is good), raise an extra 10 minutes. The bread is quite rustic & open textured. It is better with soup than sliced for sandwiches. Mavis --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v103.n014.4 --------------- From: Lobo Subject: re Sun Dried Tomatoes Date: Sat, 08 Mar 2003 10:05:13 -0700 >From: "Nancy Allen" I have never posted but faithfully read and have printed and tried many >recipes. I have a request: recipes using sun-dried tomatoes. I came upon a >steal of a deal and ended up with 12 pounds of them. I've made this once and I wasn't crazy about it, but my husband and our company loved it and ate the whole loaf: TOMATO WHEAT BAGUETTTES WITH GARLIC AND ROSEMARY 2 baguettes or 1 loaf Mix and let sit until yeast is bubbly: 1 c. tomato juice at room temp 1 1/2 t. dry yeast 1/2 t. sugar Mix in: 1 1/2 t. extra-virgin olive oil 1/4 t. salt 1 1/2 t. rosemary 1 1/2 t. minced garlic 3/4 c. whole wheat flour 2 1/4 c. flour 1/3 c. chopped sun-dried tomatoes Add more white flour as needed to make a soft dough. Knead for 10 minutes. Let rise until double in bulk. Shape into loaves. Let rise until double in bulk. Bake at 350 F for about 40 minutes. --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v103.n014.5 --------------- From: "Gloria J. Martin" Subject: Loaf size? Date: Sat, 8 Mar 2003 15:01:18 -0600 Our day-in-day-out bread that we eat as toast at breakfast has always been a plain white loaf of bread, made in our West Bend breadmaker. We've probably had in 4 years. The first 3 of those years we lived in Kansas City, MO, and the loaves consistently rose clear to the top of the breadmaker, touching the glass viewing area. A year ago we moved to Dallas, TX and our loaves have never risen as tall as the had in Kansas City. Now they barely rise over the top of the pan, if they even get that tall. The bread still tastes fine and the texture is good, but we are disappointed that they are shorter. Is it that our breadmaker is getting old, or is it the difference in the area---Dallas vs. Kansas City? Thanks for any answers I might get. Gloria Martin --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v103.n014.6 --------------- From: "llasser" Subject: ounces and weight Date: Sun, 9 Mar 2003 07:41:27 -0800 Regarding Peters use of tenth's of ounces in his book: I bought a postal scale a while back and am delighted with it as a kitchen scale. It is digital, accurate, graded in 10ths of ounces, and, as I recall, cost about $22.00 (at Costco). Accuracy is a good thing, you can choose to round up or down if you like. The problem I've been having is that I finally started weighing my flour and am dumbfounded that 2 1/4 cups of King Arthur unbleached white weighs 19 ounces! I have double and triple checked this. What's going on? No wonder I've been having to use more water than Peter calls for in his recipes. Is flour heavier on the west coast? Lissa [[ Editor's note: Lissa adds this two days later: ]] OOPS! I blew it, re-measured and made sure the scale was on something level. I weighed 2 cups of white bread flour and it was 11.2 ounces. That is much more realistic. --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v103.n014.7 --------------- From: lfc@juno.com Subject: KitchenAid vs. Breadmakers Date: Sun, 9 Mar 2003 15:00:31 -0600 I have baked bread both as treats and staple bread for about 15 years. I got a bread machine about 4 years ago and I really liked it for simple white or 50/50 bread (whole wheat/white flour) for a couple of years. For some reason, after a while it didn't bake as well. The loaves don't rise in the bake enough. I figured it was something I wasn't doing right. Reading all the dissappointment people have had with bread machines makes me wonder. I received a KitchenAid a couple of Christmas' ago and I love it. I mix and knead the bread, but I take it out to hand knead a little bit because I love the feel of the dough. Plus, I like the whole loaves without the hole-y loaf from the paddle. Happy baking Linda --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v103.n014.8 --------------- From: lfc@juno.com Subject: Whole wheat and low-sugar bread recipes??? Date: Sun, 9 Mar 2003 14:44:32 -0600 My family just started on Sugar Buster's a few weeks back and we're having great results, but I need a really great whole wheat bread recipe without sugar or at least without much sugar. I experimented with cups of warm water, yeast and a different sweetner per cup. Only the sugar made the yeast react. So, where I used 2 T of honey per loaf, now I use 1-2 tsp. honey for rising and 1 T Splenda for taste. This is my latest trial and it was good tasting and textured but it still didn't rise enough. I like a fairly dense, but soft bread to slice for sandwiches. Something soft enough to not wear out your jaws and that won't break or crumble when handled. 1 cup whole wheat pastry flour 2 cups whole white wheat flour 10 T Vital Wheat Gluten 1 egg 1 1/4 cup warm milk 1 1/2 tsp. honey 1 1/2 T Splenda 1 1/2 tsp. salt 2 T butter 3 tsp yeast I also tried it using all whole wheat pastry flour with similar results. It just doesn't rise enough. It rises well on the first rise, but in the pan it doesn't rise past the edge of the glass bread pan and I bake at 350F til brown. It only rises a little past the pan, so it is not a good sandwich-size loaf. ANY SUGGESTIONS FOR ADDITIONS OR CHANGES????? I am curious about the lecithin and 'modified food starch' that I've seen on some of the websites. Does anyone know how well they work. I read a post about lecithin being like an egg yolk, but does it work better? I'd stick to an egg if not. Thanks, Linda --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v103.n014.9 --------------- From: "Jenny Hensley" Subject: Thanks for the beer recipes.. Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2003 22:00:15 -0500 Thanks to those of you who posted..Now I may have to part with some of that ole 'BUD' in the fridge.. I bet the "Radio Beer Bread' was because whoever was making it probably mixed to the tunes..sound familiar?? Jenny --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v103.n014.10 --------------- From: Dave Glaze Subject: Re: weights and measures Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2003 09:24:44 -0800 My balance scale measures down to 10ths of a gram and so I can measure yeast and salt to the accuracy that Peter Reinhart's recipes call for. I have checked my weight measurements against the volume measurements (teaspoons) he gives in each recipe and found them to be close enough. So when measuring salt and yeast, you could use the volume measurements. His measurements are for instant yeast and for table salt. If you are using regular yeast or kosher salt or sea salt, you will have to convert using his tables on page 28 of The Bread Baker's Apprentice. Cheers Dave > I had a question about measurements. In Peter Reinhart's book, the > Bread Bakers Apprentice, he uses Ounces, often with hundredth's, in > his bread formula's, and it poses a problem for me as my scale only > goes down to fractions of ounces. Is there a conversion I could use, > or do you know of a scale that handles hundredth's of ounces? --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v103.n014.11 --------------- From: "Don Bischoff" Subject: Re: Ounces Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2003 19:18:27 -0600 In a message dated, Sun, 2 Mar 2003 09:41:50 EST, John said: -------------------------Quote------------------------ The one serious flaw in Peter Reinhart's Bread Bakers Apprentice is the use of decimal fractions of an ounce - it has no rationale , is a bastardised hybrid of decinal and avoidupois measurements with the worst features of both........... --------------------------------------------------------- I beg to differ with John's assessment. Whether one-quarter ounce is stated as a fraction (1/4) or a decimal (.25) it means the same thing. John further states: -------------------------Quote------------------------ ........and scales electronic or balance, always measure in binary fractions of an ounce so his quoted weights are unusable. --------------------------------------------------------- That is absurd. Binary refers to a numerical system that has only two numbers, one and zero. It is known to mathematicians as the base two numerical system. The decimal system (base ten) has ten numbers zero through nine. There also are other numeric systems as well such as, hexadecimal and octal, to name a just few. The binary system as used in computers because their memory systems are based on two-position switches that indicate either on or off, (1 or 0). The decimal system is used in everyday life because of it's simplicity. Digital scales use a microprocessor and convert the binary representation of weight to a decimal readout. Beam balance scales are analog. They don't even have a microprocessor, to say that a beam balance scale is binary is like saying a cow is aquatic. [[ Editor's note: I believe that John refers here to the fact that many scales in the US intended for kitchen use display fractional ounces as the sum the powers of two fractions - 1/2, 1/4, 1/8 - while similar metric scales (often the same ones) display fractional grams as decimals. ]] To say that the quoted weights are unusable is even more absurd. I have a digital scale that measures decimal fractions of an ounce as well as decimal fractions of a gram. I have made many of Reinhart's recipes using his weights and have encountered no problem whatsoever. John then continues with: -------------------------Quote------------------------ Why a baker of his skill and knowledge, in an otherwise marvellous book, chose such a ridiculous means of expressing weight is beyond me. --------------------------------------------------------- It appears that the only thing ridiculous is John's inability to comprehend numerical systems and mathematics. He concludes with: -------------------------Quote------------------------ I just use the percentage formulae given in each recipe and work in metric - if you don't or won't use metric then you've got problems. --------------------------------------------------------- If John wants to go through the extra bother of converting all of the measurements to grams, more power to him. Some people just like to do things the hard way. As I stated before, I've used the formulae, as stated in the book, verbatim, and have had no problem. Also, many members of this forum have reported that they have made recipes from that book using the weights provided and none have complained of not understanding decimal fractions of an ounce. In light of the above, I can only conclude, that John's allegations are baseless and would best be ignored. Don --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v103.n014.12 --------------- From: "Anita" Subject: Holiday Breads Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2003 09:03:45 -0800 The traditional bread for St Patricks dinner is Irish soda bread. Since we really like a yeasted bread, I usually use the following recipe for our meal, but use the second recipe for the dinner we take to my mother in law's. (she's 95 and kind of "set in her ways") Hope you enjoy these, Anita Flanigan, No Calif. * Exported from MasterCook * Barm Brack (Irish Yeast Bread) Recipe By : Little Irish Cookbook (Chronicle Books) Serving Size : 1 Preparation Time :0:00 Categories : Breads Irish Amount Measure Ingredient -- Preparation Method -------- ------------ -------------------------------- 1/2 cup milk -- warmed 1 teaspoon sugar 1 teaspoon yeast 2 cups flour 1 teaspoon mixed spice 1 egg 3 Tablespoons butter 2 cups mixed dried fruit, raisins, white raisins, 2 Tablespoons sugar 1/2 teaspoon salt 1 teaspoon caraway seeds (optional) 2 tablespoons candied peel Cream the yeast and sugar and allow to froth up in the milk, which should be at blood heat. sieve the flour, caster sugar and spice and rub in the butter. Make a well in the centre and add the yeast mixture and the egg, beaten. Beat with a wooden spoon for about 1o minutes until a good dough forms. The fruit and the salt should be worked in by hand and the whole kneaded. Put in a worm bowl, cover and allow to rise in a warm place for about an hour until doubled in size. Knead lightly and place in a lightly-greased 7 in. cake tin and allow a further 30 min rising time. Bake near the top of a preheated oven at 400 F for 45 min. Glaze with 2 T sugar in 3 T boiling water when it comes out of the oven. Note: I usually use the bread machine on manual cycle to mix the dough. Also use dry yeast instead of fresh. And this one, a more traditional quick bread Irish Farmhouse Loaf Servings: 8 8 oz Flour 4 oz Sugar 8 oz Mixed dried fruit 1/2 Grated rind of a lemon 2 T Butter 1/2 t Salt 2 t Baking powder 1 pinch Baking soda 1 Egg, beaten 1 1/4 c Buttermilk Mix the flour, sugar, fruit, lemon rind, butter, baking powder and soda. Add the beaten egg and the buttermilk to make a nice soft dough; beat well and pour into a greased 2-pound loaf pan. Bake at 300 F for 1 hour, or until it tests done with a skewer. --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v103.n014.13 --------------- From: FREDERICKA COHEN Subject: baking stone Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2003 19:07:48 -0800 (PST) I must have misunderstood the building supply source explanation for a baking stone. When I go into Lowe's or Home Depot and ask for "unglazed quarry tiles", I get no response. I have found tiles like this at a local ceramic craft shop where they are used in kilns. At $6 for a 4 inch square....you figure the cost! Where are all those tiles that people claim to buy for 99 cents!?!? Please let me know directly at cohenfs@prodigy.net. I have some heavy duty baking scheduled for next week. Thanks. Fredericka Cohen --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v103.n014.14 --------------- From: Whitney511@aol.com Subject: Oatmeal in sourdough bread Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2003 12:03:57 EST I have started adding half a cup of cooked oatmeal to my sour dough bread recipe, adjusting the recipe for the oatmeal as if it were flour and also reducing the water called for in the recipe by what was used to cook the oatmeal. It seems to have a very noticable and profound effect on the beauty of the crust, the oven spring, and the chewy/crunchy quality of the crust. --------------- END bread-bakers.v103.n014 --------------- Copyright (c) 1996-2003 Regina Dwork and Jeffrey Dwork All Rights Reserved