Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 23:21:14 -0700 (MST) -------------- BEGIN bread-bakers.v103.n011 -------------- 001 - "Debbie Bone" - German bread (original recipe) 003 - "Nancy" - sourdough Dakota bread 006 - "Lynn Duff" Subject: conversions Date: Sat, 15 Feb 2003 07:58:14 -0500 I am on the eat right for your blood type good plan, which calls for the elimination of wheat. I use spelt flour, which even though is wheat, is not the processed whole wheat. I also have rye and rice flour. I would love to make some of the recipes I see in the digest, the sunrise bread looked really good :) Can any of you bread bakers come up with conversions, or recipes for folks like me? PS, I can't have dairy products either. It was a pain to stop eating these things, but I won't go back now, I feel 100 times better. Blessings all Debbie --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v103.n011.2 --------------- From: Lobo Subject: German bread (original recipe) Date: Sat, 15 Feb 2003 11:16:11 -0700 Sorry this took so long ... I finally dug out the original recipe the German lady sent me. I put in the weight conversions and a couple translations and notes. When I questioned the high temps advised (I've found 350 F to be the ideal temp for my bread) she said: "Don't worry! The first ten min. are necessary for the crust I think. 200 C (400 F) is quite normal. If you have an oven which "Umluft" circulating air you bake it 30 - 40 C (55 - 70 F) lower. You need also the higher temperature for the color and crust and because the dough is heavy (starch gets brown and there is no sugar in it). Pale bread doesn't look and taste good. Nobody would buy a pale, soft and doughy bread here. If you think your bread will get to dark cover it with aluminum foil the last 10 or 15 min. Every oven works different. But remember you need a thicker crust." VIERKORNBROT - excellent 350 g (12.3 oz or 2.5 cups) Weizenschrotmehl (wheat fresh grinded) 150 g (5.3 oz) Roggenschrotmehl (rye fresh grinded) 1 1/2 t. salt 30 g (1 oz.) frische Hefe (fresh yeast)(I used 1 T. dry yeast) 1/4 l (8 oz) lauwarmes Wasser (lukewarm water) 1 t. Honig (honey) First make yeast dough with all the ingredients. Then put in the following: (keep 2 tablespoons back for later) 50 g (1.8 oz. or 5 T.) Sesam (sesame seed) 50 g (1.8 oz. or 3.5 T.) Leinsamen (flaxseeds) 50 g (1.8 oz. or 4 T.) grobes Weizenschrot (coarse ground wheat) Mehl (flour for kneading) Oel (oil for cookie sheet) Wasser (water for bread top) Let dough stand warm (room temperature) 40-50 min. until the dough is doubled. Form bread, put it on a oily cookie sheet (I used one bread pan), brush water on top, put Sesam, Leinsamen and Weizenschrot on top. Cover the bread and let it stand warm again for another 15 min. (I did let mine rise until it had doubled in size) Meanwhile preheat oven at 200 C (392 F) Put a little bowl with water in the oven ground. Bake bread on the first level of the oven about 50 - 60 min. (I baked it at 350 F for 50 min.) --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v103.n011.3 --------------- From: "Nancy" Subject: Cold Oven Method Date: Sat, 15 Feb 2003 14:14:13 -0700 Since I live in Phoenix, I was anxious to try the cold oven method. I have a regular electric oven and bake French type bread at 450 degrees. The cold oven method, misting once before turning on the oven, worked great! The bread was as good if not better than when I have preheated and used a baking stone or steamer pan. Our lives are busy enough so the K.I.S.S. method makes sense. Thanks for your contribution! Nancy --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v103.n011.4 --------------- From: Mike Subject: Bread Machines Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2003 09:16:48 -0800 (PST) To all of the bread machine fanatics out there, I have owned two machines for quite some time. A fairly new Zo and a Breadman Plus. I gave my daughter the original Zo I had when I decided to purchase the new Zo. I was never overly impressed with the results of these machines. First off, you can't put your ingredients in one, program it and leave. You think you'll come home to a nice loaf of fresh baked bread or dinner? Fat chance. You have to watch it like a hawk so you can add a little water or some more flour. Same as when you do bread "the old fashioned way". Leaving it is like a crap shoot and you usually wind up with a sub-par loaf. I have never had a failure when making bread the way we did before these machines were around. I'm all for convenience and machines, but bread machines just don't do it for me. I always wind up using my mixer and turning out more than one loaf at a time. I purchased a Magic Mill DLX which whips up a bunch of dough at one time and you can bake to your hearts content. Well worth the initial cash outlay. Kitchen Aid is another waste of money. If I could to buy a counter-top Hobart, now your talkin! I burned up two Kitchen Aids. Get them repaired? Nope. Went from the tilt head model to the K5, same disastrous results. Burned up motor. Oh well, all and all what ever works and you're happy with it, that's what counts. Happy baking! --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v103.n011.5 --------------- From: Lobo Subject: sourdough Dakota bread Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2003 13:24:20 -0700 I can never leave a good thing alone ... loved Kathleen's () Dakota Bread recipe from Cafe Latte in St. Paul, but had an abundance of sourdough starter yesterday and decided to convert it. It's SO good! I used 7 grain cereal because I didn't have cracked wheat and olive oil because I like the taste. I also dumped all the seeds into the dough and didn't use the egg wash on top of the loaves ... just lazy! My conversion also means you have to eyeball fifths of a cup for the flour and water. DAKOTA BREAD - SOURDOUGH VERSION 2 cups expanded sourdough ("expanded" meaning what you have after you've taken your starter out of the refrigerator the night before and fed it with water and flour so it's bubbly the next day) 1 1/5 cups warm water -- (105 to 115 F) 1/4 cup honey 1/4 cup olive oil 1/2 cup 7-grain cereal 1 Tablespoon salt 1 cup whole wheat flour 1/2 cup roasted unsalted sunflower seeds 1/3 cup hulled raw pumpkin seeds 1 tablespoon poppy seeds 1 tablespoon raw sesame seeds 3 4/5 cups unbleached all-purpose flour (or more for kneading) In a large bowl, combine sourdough, water, honey, oil, cereal, salt, whole wheat flour and seeds. Stir well, adding a little white flour to make it about muffin batter consistency. Allow to rest 15 minutes. Add the rest of the flour to make a soft dough and knead, adding only enough flour to make a nice soft dough. Knead about 10 to 15 minutes, sprinkling with more flour as necessary, or until the dough is smooth and elastic. (I let my KitchenAid knead it.) Turn the dough into a greased bowl, cover with a dishtowel, and set it in a warm place. Allow the dough to rise until double in bulk. Sourdough often takes longer to rise than yeast, so just watch the size of the dough. Punch the dough down. Let it rest for 5 minutes. Divide the dough and shape it into 2 loaves, placing them in greased bread pans (or make round loaves on a cookie sheet ... whatever you want). Let rise until doubled. Bake the loaves in a preheated 350 F oven for approximately 30 to 40 minutes, or until the loaves are nicely browned and sound hollow when tapped. Remove the loaves from the oven and cool on wire racks. Makes 2 loaves. --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v103.n011.6 --------------- From: "Lynn Duff" Subject: Pain De Campagne Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2003 17:12:18 -0600 COUNTRY BREAD (PAIN DE CAMPAGNE) MAKES 3 LOAVES A Great Rustic Loaf Here's another bread that I just tried today. Have had this recipe torn from the May 1994 issue of Bon Appetit for several years and never tried it. It takes more than one day to prepare and have hesitated until yesterday. We have been snowed in here in Iowa for the weekend and enjoyed the baking time. I usually knead my breads by hand but this one gave my KA mixer a work-out. This bread turned out great. The aroma from the kitchen was wonderful and the crust and texture of the bread was very nice. Makes you want to head to the French country side. I scanned the following straight from the page. Most dough is left to rise in a warm, draft-free place; this one develops best by longer, slower risings-one of them overnight-at room temperature (70 F to 75 F). FOR COUNTRY PEOPLE, bread is both a favorite food and a necessary fuel; served with every meal, it sustains and satisfies, while marking the rhythm of the passing day. Our recipe for the quintessential French country loaf comes to us from Roger Auzet, a fourth-generation baker at his family's boulangerie in the town of Cavaillon in Provence. The addition of rye flour-common in many hearty French breads-gives the bread great color and texture, and a fine crust. It's just the thing to serve with every meal, or no meal at all. STARTER 1 cup warm water (105 F to 115 F) 1 tablespoon honey 1 envelope dry yeast 1 cup rye flour 1 cup (about) plus 1-tablespoon bread flour Mix water and honey in medium bowl Add yeast; stir to dissolve. Let stand until foamy, 10 minutes. Add 1/2 cup rye flour and 1/2 cup bread flour; stir to combine. Add remaining 1/2 cup rye flour. Mix in enough bread flour to form shaggy mass that can be worked with hands & turn out starter onto floured surface; knead 3 minutes. adding more bread flour if too sticky to work. (Starter will be dough like in texture at this point) Sprinkle 1 tablespoon bread flour in medium bowl Add starter dough to bowl Cover with plastic; let stand at room temperature overnight (starter will lose its shape and spread to a thick batter). BREAD 2 3/4 cups warm water (lO5 to 115 F) 1 envelope dry yeast 6 cups (about) bread flour 3/4 cup rye flour 1 1/4 tablespoons fine sea salt Place 1/4 cup warm water in small bowl. Sprinkle yeast over, stir to dissolve, Mix 3 cups bread flour and rye flour in bowl of Heavy-duty mixer fitted with dough hook. Add yeast mixture and remaining 2 1/4 cups warm water mix on low speed to blend. Add 1 cup bread flour; beat 4 minutes. Add another 1 cup bread flour to form shaggy mass; beat 4 minutes. Add salt and starter; continue mixing until dough pulls away from sides of bowl, adding more bread flour if too sticky to form dough, about 5 minutes. Turn out dough onto lightly floured surface; turn to coat. Transfer dough to large bowl. Cover with kitchen towel. Let rise at room temperature 1 hour Generously flour 1 heavy large bak­ing sheet and 1 heavy medium baking sheet. Punch dough down. Turn out onto floured surface. Knead until smooth, 2 minutes. Divide into 3 equal portions. Shape each into ball. Place 2 balls on large sheet and 1 on medium sheet. Cover with kitchen towels. Let rise at room temperature until doubled (test by pressing 2 fingers gently into dough; if indentations remain, dough has risen completely), about 2 hours. Preheat oven to 450 F. Place bak­ing pan in bottom of oven; add water to create steam. Using sharp knife, cut 3 diagonal slits across top of each loaf. Place baking sheet with 2 loaves in oven. Bake until breads are deep brown and sound hollow when tapped on bottom, about 35 minutes. Transfer to rack. Place remaining loaf in oven. Bake until bread is deep brown and sounds hollow when tapped on bottom, about 35 minutes. Transfer to rack and cool. Hope you like this, Lynn --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v103.n011.7 --------------- From: Blanche007@aol.com Subject: Re: bread improver Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 15:09:34 EST << From: Sandramadsen@aol.com Subject: Bread improver Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2003 08:56:18 EST Where can I purchase bread improver? >> My company makes three all-natural bread conditioners which are distributed in the US, Canada and the UK. I'd be happy to send you (or any other baker) a free sample. You can get information about the products on my web site: www.lorabrody.com. l Lora Brody --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v103.n011.8 --------------- From: "Steven and Gretchen Dinin" Subject: Inexpensive Grain Mills Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 07:24:07 -0500 About 6 or 7 years ago I purchased a Braun coffee grinder to use as a grain mill and have used it ever since. Actually, Kling Arthur's flour advertised one on the same page as their very expensive mill at that time. Do not use the grinder for anything other than wheat berries. Probably any other brand coffee grinder would work out just as well. --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v103.n011.9 --------------- From: Ed Okie Subject: excellent and simple conversion resource Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 10:16:30 -0500 Here's the best website page I've come across when perplexed by different baking measurement systems, i.e., when one is faced with converting temperatures, weights, volume, etc. It's worth a look-see! http://gourmetsleuth.com/general_calcs.htm Ed Okie --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v103.n011.10 --------------- From: Ed Okie Subject: oven cold-start followup Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 10:01:24 -0500 Here's a followup undertaken by a fellow bread-baker to the "oven cold-start" topic I posted last week on the bread-list. The opening portion of my original text said: "Pre-heat the oven!" "Crank-it-up a gazillion-degrees!" "Pre-heat for an hour!" It's an admonishment heard time and again. Oft-repeated, almost absolute "truth." Hog-wash, I say. A cold-start oven not only works - it works very well, and is far simpler, plus safer. A perfect example of the KISS formula: Keep It Simple, Stupid! To wit: I virtually always use a cold-start oven when baking bread, even the persnickety French baguette. And heaven-forbid, I don't even use a baking stone, nor a peel..." **** Another baking guru took up the challenge and tested the cold-start/hot-start method in his kitchen. One dough batch was mixed that endured 2 rises across several hours in a cool room, thereafter divided in half, shaped into individual loaves and proofed for 1 1/2 hours. One half was baked using a cold-start oven, no baking stone, with water misted onto the oven's cold floor just before inserting the bread. The second half was baked in the pre-heated oven using a hot baking stone, boiling water tossed into a pan, etc. Both trials used the same oven temperature of 230C (446F), and breads were baked to identical internal temperatures of 96C (205F). The cold-start extended baking time to 28 minutes (+8 minutes to the recipe's stated time). The baking-guru said (and also included pictures): "Interesting results - just about identical! Better cut definition (slash area) on the hot, color slightly better on hot, no difference in expansion/oven spring. Bread interiors (texture) were equally close and even on both. Taste - couldn't tell them apart blind." **** Additional correspondence between us suggested that equal browning to the exterior for the cold-start method might be achieved if the temperature was set slightly higher, say 235C (455F). In summary: the baking methods, cold start or hot start, produced virtually equal breads! The cold-start required significantly less oven heating time (28 minutes versus 1 1/2 hours), was far safer (no boiling water tossed into a hot oven, nor repeated mistings and door openings), eliminated problems often encountered with using a peel. Overall, a far simpler and easier method of baking. Ed Okie --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v103.n011.11 --------------- From: Roxanne Rieske Subject: Progress on recipe testing for Peter Reinhart Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 13:49:12 -0700 I am mostly concentrating on the crust recipes for the pizzas. I am not a big fan of complicated pizzas. When it comes to pizza, I like simple; so I don't go for pies with more than 3 toppings, complicated or weird cheeses, or other strange components. Give me a great crust, a zesty sauce, a cheese like asiago, some fresh garlic, and either onions or spicy italian sausage, and that's perfect. So what I've got going now are the Napoletana and Neo-Neopolitan doughs fermenting in my fridge. The Napoletana I will be making tomorrow. The Neo-Neopolitan I will actually be freezing so I can make it on it on Tuesday night for my study group. I will be e-mailing a report of my results sometime Wednesday or Thursday night. Then I'll start anouther round of testing. Possibly starting with the New York Style crust. We'll see. Roxanne --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v103.n011.12 --------------- From: LDavis47@aol.com Subject: collecting favorites Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 16:26:31 EST I thought it would be fun to ask list members to send in their favorite bread recipies (maybe limit to 4 max) and techniques to post them. It would be very educational to new bakers and interesting to get some new ideas for people who have been making breads for a while. Lloyd Davis --------------- END bread-bakers.v103.n011 --------------- Copyright (c) 1996-2003 Regina Dwork and Jeffrey Dwork All Rights Reserved