Date: Sat, 8 Feb 2003 01:36:16 -0700 (MST) -------------- BEGIN bread-bakers.v103.n007 -------------- 001 - Efkhwebb@aol.com - Peter Reinhart's schedule? 002 - Lobo - German bread and Many Grain Bread 003 - Nifcon@aol.com - Hop yeast 004 - Nifcon@aol.com - Pain a l'Ancienne 005 - Nifcon@aol.com - Pain a la Ancienne - not rising 006 - Nifcon@aol.com - German 'little breads' 007 - judiec@comcast.net - Re: dough risers 008 - "Lynn Duff" - Dough bucket 016 - RosesCakeBible@aol.com - Re: crumpet recipe in bread-bakers.v103.n006 017 - AVRILFELLS@aol.com - Pasta in the bread machine 018 - "Margaret G. Cope" - Rising problems with pumpkin/squash bread 023 - "Koller" Subject: German bread and Many Grain Bread Date: Sat, 01 Feb 2003 00:49:19 -0700 The first recipe grew from a recipe a German woman sent to me after I visited there and loved the Fuenfkornbrot. I never seem to make a recipe the way it's written. The 2nd came from this list and is also very good. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ FUENFKORNBROT (Yes, I know I have more than 5 grains in it ....) Night before, mix together and let stand at room temp: 1 1/3 cup sour dough 2 c. whole rye, freshly ground 4 cups lukewarm water (or part beer) And soak 7 T. flaxseeds in water over night in the fridge. (Instead of the above sourdough mixture, you could start the same day and use 6 cups expanded sourdough starter and substitute 1 1/3 c. rye flour for 1 1/3 c. of the wheat flour. Pour boiling water over flax seed in this case and let it sit a while. Expanded: starter which has been "fed" with water and flour the night before.) Next day, add: 2 c. water (or beer) 7 c. flour or freshly ground wheat 2 2/3 c. whole wheat flour 1 1/3 c. Seven-Grain cereal 1 c. whole barley, grind it 2/3 c. oat bran 2 cup oatmeal, ground or whole 3/4 cup sunflower oil 2 T. salt I've also added: 2 T. sesame seeds 1/4 c. soy flour 1/4 c. wheat germ 1/4 c. sunflower seeds - Knead - put dough in a bowl for 2 - 3 hours til it is double. Cover it with a cloth. - knead again and form a loaf. Cover it with a bit of flour and cover it with a moist cloth and let it stand for 20 min. in a warm place. -bake at 350 F 40-50 min. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ NUTTY GRAIN BREAD Leslie Lapides From: Reggie Dwork 1 1/4 c. water/beer 2 tablespoons butter 1 1/3 cups bread flour 1 1/3 cups wheat flour 1 cup 7 Grain Cereal Mixed With Oats, Bran Etc 3 tablespoons brown sugar 1 1/4 teaspoons salt 2 1/4 teaspoons yeast 3 tablespoons walnuts -- or sunflower seeds 2 teaspoons dough enhancer (I've never used this and it comes out ok) Mix. Knead. Let rise. Makes 1 loaf. Let rise. Bake at 350 F for 40 mins. --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v103.n007.3 --------------- From: Nifcon@aol.com Subject: Hop yeast Date: Sat, 1 Feb 2003 04:38:45 EST Either there are wild yeasts on the hop flowers, as on just about any flower, which produce a culture more suitable for bread OR the antiseptic properties of hops make an environment in which useful yeasts can flourish while bacteria are discouraged OR it's just animistic nonsense. John --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v103.n007.4 --------------- From: Nifcon@aol.com Subject: Pain a l'Ancienne Date: Sat, 1 Feb 2003 05:00:25 EST Peter I've had considerable success cold autolysing the flour and water at 80% hydration overnight, then adding 1% instant yeast and 2% salt and rising, shaping and baking as a normal, if sloppy, baguette dough. The method given in Bread Baker's Apprentice just doesn't work FOR ME (others have had great success and every other bread that I've tried from the book has been superb). The first post I made is reproduced below. On Tuesday I thought I'd try Reinhart's Pain a l'Ancienne again but I'd come to the conclusion that, in my kitchen and given the amount of heat my old Kenwood throws out, all my previous attempts had begun fermentation BEFORE the sugar release detailed by Reinhart could occur and that the stage where I was losing most volume was the transfer from bowl to bench after fermentation. So - following on from a thread posted earlier, from whom, I'm ashamed to say, I don't remember - I mixed, with a spoon, in my mixer's bowl, 500 grams 13.2% bread flour and 400 grams ice cold water to a fairly smooth sticky dough and refrigerated immediately, leaving overnight. Next day, I added 1 teaspoon instant yeast and 10 grams salt. In with the dough hook. The mixture balled around the hook on the first revolution and the mixing was not required to develop the gluten, just distribute the yeast. It was almost as if the unyeasted dough had been mixed heavily the night before. Out onto the floured counter, shaped into a rectangle, a little flour over the top, covered with clingfilm and left to warm up and rise - about 4 hours to double. Divided into 6 baguettes, each placed, very gently, on a 10X4 inch strip of parchment and left to recover for 1/2 hour after which time the logs were VERY bubbly and wobbly. Oven preheated to 250C, 3 baguettes onto each stone, boiling water into the steam pan, baked for 15 minutes. Internal temp 94C, back into the oven 5 mins, temp 96C. Finished. The bread had the most glorious deep red-brown colour, thin crackly crust, the crumb was very light, very elastic, very porous with a whole range of sizes of irregular holes. Visually stunning. The taste! Sweet, wheaty, multi layered with what wine buffs call a "long finish". The best tasting lean dough I have ever produced. But is it Pain a l'Ancienne? I must admit I don't care, the result is just as Reinhart describes it and that's good enough for me. John --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v103.n007.5 --------------- From: Nifcon@aol.com Subject: Pain a la Ancienne - not rising Date: Sat, 1 Feb 2003 05:05:53 EST What yeast are you using? It must be instant not the more traditional 'active dried' yeast. John --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v103.n007.6 --------------- From: Nifcon@aol.com Subject: German 'little breads' Date: Sat, 1 Feb 2003 05:16:19 EST 'little breads' is a direct translation of the German "Broetchen" ("oe" is a printer friendly way of representing the Umlaut - the 2 little dots over vowels that you see in German text) the diminutive form of "Brot" and the best translation is probably "rolls". Google will find you thousands of hits for German rolls, I haven't made any of them so can't help there but Kaiser Rolls (Kaiser Broetchen) are one of the rolls you see in the morning in German bakeries. --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v103.n007.7 --------------- From: judiec@comcast.net Subject: Re: dough risers Date: Sat, 01 Feb 2003 07:26:04 -0500 Jean, I get mine (and all else for bread baking!) from King Arthur Flour. You can order right from their website. http://www.kingarthurflour.com/ Judie --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v103.n007.8 --------------- From: "Lynn Duff" Subject: re: saf yeast Date: Sat, 1 Feb 2003 06:40:35 -0600 In response to Mary's request: you can find SAF yeast at Wal-Mart in their grocery section. Lynn --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v103.n007.9 --------------- From: DRogers248@aol.com Subject: Re: dough rising bucket Date: Sat, 1 Feb 2003 09:55:35 EST > I am trying to locate a source for a dough rising bucket Have you tried EBay? --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v103.n007.10 --------------- From: Paul and Ruth Provance Subject: Little breads Date: Sat, 01 Feb 2003 10:10:14 -0500 Dear Sandy, "Little Breads" are called brotchen (there's an umlaut in there somewhere) and were my favorite thing to eat when I was in Germany. They are simple yeast rolls, made in an oval shape. They are somewhat larger than what Americans consider dinner rolls. I looked and looked for them here in the States, and ended up baking something like them myself, using the same recipe I use for pizza dough: Start with 2 cups of warm water and 1/4 cup of oil (I use Extra Virgin Olive oil). Add 1 1/2 teaspoon salt, one package (2 1/4 tsp) of active dry or instant yeast, and enough unbleached flour to make an easily worked dough. Knead until smooth and only slightly sticky. Let rise in a warm spot until double. When doubled, shape into 16 oval rolls, tucking the cut part of the dough to the inside so you have a smooth surface. (I hope this makes sense to you! I don't know how else to describe it!) I place the rolls on a sheet of parchment or on a pizza peel (paddle) coated with corn meal or Cream of Wheat. Cover with plastic wrap and let rise until doubled again. Meanwhile, preheat a pizza stone in your oven for at least 20 minutes at high. When the rolls are ready, turn the oven down to about 425 F, mist the rolls well with water, and slide the rolls on the parchment onto the hot stone. Bake for about 20 minutes, or until nicely browned, but not too dark. Spritz with water again about half way through the baking, if you like. The water makes a nice crust. Take out and cool. This should remind your exchange student of the brotchen at home, even if they are not the exact same thing! Other things you can do is use less yeast, about 1 tsp, and let rise at a cool room temperature for several hours. Many people like the flavor that comes from a slow rise. If you don't have a pizza stone, use a baking sheet. You might also try baking a half batch to start with. I often bake these rolls to bring to dinners at church or homes. I sometimes add herbs to the dough, or use some whole wheat flour. Happy Baking! Ruth --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v103.n007.11 --------------- From: "llasser" Subject: Pain a al ancienne Date: Sat, 1 Feb 2003 07:36:45 -0800 What a fun list this is! Thank you Peter for the "long" version. I tried your "short" version last weekend, forcing myself to follow your instructions exactly, and I was thrilled with the results. This is the bread I have been trying to make for years, getting approximate results sometimes, and not knowing why. I mixed the dough in the old zojirushi, being somewhat lazy, and forced myself to use the oil spray, ignoring my horrified brain screaming "What? Oil in the bread?", bought some parchment paper, which made me feel like an actress in a 1960's betty crocker no fuss no muss tv commercial, and baked the whole sh'bang in my 50 btu gas oven that takes about 10 minutes to get back to temperature every time I open the door. Aside from the immensely satisfying random pattern of irregularly sized air pockets, a crust that was crusty and delicate at the same time, and a rich flavor that lingered long afterward, the pain is my perfect bread. I do not say this lightly as this journey as taken me as long or longer than my quest for perfection in some other areas of life. I will try the long version and report back, and I thank you for posting it. My interest in the long version, David, was not with the hydration level, but rather my curiosity and a never ending need to tinker and experiment with recipes. I thank you for the suggestion about making it during the week, as I had been racking my brain trying to figure out a way to do it. My house is cold during the day, so perhaps a 10 hour ferment may work. I do not have any problem with wet doughs, and think that I used more water than Peter's formula. I only 'think' this since I went by volume not weight, but when I transferred the 8 inch baguettes to the parchment, I had to use the scraper to support the dough.... so that was pretty wet. Uma, could your yeast be old? Or did it get too close to the salt when you mixed your dough? Lissa Lasser, Psy.D. --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v103.n007.12 --------------- From: Lange Subject: Re: bread knives Date: Sat, 01 Feb 2003 08:05:22 -0800 Sorry for being so slow with my response on this. A good source of knives is Discount knives. (www.discountknives.com) I've been using him for years and save over 30%. Dave Redondo Beach, CA --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v103.n007.13 --------------- From: "Mike Avery" Subject: re: German breads Date: Sat, 01 Feb 2003 09:24:11 -0700 Sandy asked for German "little breads". I often think that people are very strongly tied to the breads of their youth. It's just the way we're wired. I think the breakfast bread she is looking for is "brotchen" or "little breads". They are a fairly hard roll with a soft crumb. If you have a Spanish or Mexican bakery in your area, bollilos are a good substitute. (I'm sure I misspelled bollilos... apologies to any Spanish speakers in the audience.) I haven't tried the recipe below, so I'd appreciate any feedback.... it's been in my "one of these days" pile for a while now... long enough that I have forgotten where I stole it from. Also... the best time to eat brotchen is when they are fresh. I'd suggest baking some about 80% of the way, freezing them, and then heating them and finishing baking just before breakfast. A well made brotchen is a very versatile roll... with jams for breakfast, with cold meat and cheese for lunch, perhaps even with a fleishsalat (or a German "meat salad" based on beef or fish). (more follows the recipe) -Begin Recipe Export- QBook version 1.00.14 Title: Brotchen Keywords: German, rolls, breakfast, bread Ingredients: 1 pk. dry active yeast 2 tsp sugar 3 cups bread flour (divided) 1 tsp salt 2 1/2 tbs corn oil (not Crisco!) 1 cup warm water Method: Combine yeast, salt and 2 1/2 cups flour. Mix on low speed in Kitchen Aid with flat hook until blended. Then slowly add the corn oil and finally the sugar dissolved in the warm water. Continue stirring for 2-3 minutes. Change to a dough hook and knead for 7 minutes, adding remaining flour during the first 4 minures. Adjust with flour or water to achieve an elastic mix (falls off the hook when just right). Place dough in an oiled bowl and let rise until doubled. Punch down and let rise for 15-20 minues more. Divide into 10-12 round portions on a greased cookie sheet. Allow to rise until doubled. Place in a 375 F. preheated oven and bake until golden brown (about 30 minutes). For additional crispness it helps to spray the rolls periodically with a fine mist of water. The rolls are finished when they sound hollow when tapped. Like many Germans I remove some of the inner dough after I cut them open since I much prefer the crusty exterior when making a sandwich. (Note from Mike - these should be oblong, with a slashed top right down the center of the oblong.) -End Recipe Export- From the kitchen of Mike Avery (mavery@mail.otherwhen.com) On the black bread front, that can be any of a number of breads. A very good (the BEST imho) site for information about genuiune pumpernickel is at http://samartha.net/SD/index.html - look at his pumpernickel information. He's a bit of a purist. Also, you might check your local library and look for a copy of Beatrice Ojakangas' "Great Whole Grain Breads" book. She has a number of German, Finnish, and other Eurpopean recipes that are quite good. I have a recipe for a nice sourdough rye at http://www.sourdoughhome.html/bohemianrye.html that I like a lot. Below is a conventional recipe that, once again, I haven't tried. -Begin Recipe Export- QBook version 1.00.14 Title: Roggenbrot (Rye Bread) Keywords: German, Breads Servings: 12 2 pk Yeast; Active Dry 1/2 c Warm Water(110-120 degrees) 1 1/2 c Milk; Lukewarm 2 T Sugar 1 t Salt 1/2 c Molasses 2 T Butter 3 1/4 c Rye Flour; Unsifted 2 1/2 c Bread Flour; Unsifted Dissolve yeast in warm water. In a large bowl combine milk, sugar, and salt. Use a mixer to beat in molasses, butter, yeast mixture and 1 cup of rye flour. Use a wooden spoon to mix in the remaining rye flour. Add white flour by stirring until the dough is stiff enough to knead. Knead 5 to 10 minutes, adding flour as needed. If the dough sticks to your hands or the board add more flour. Cover dough and let rise 1 to 1 1/2 hours or until double. Punch down dough and divide to form 2 round loaves. Let loaves rise on a greased baking sheet until double, about 1 1/2 hours. Preheat oven to 375 F. Bake for 30 to 35 minutes. Makes 2 round loaves. -End Recipe Export- From the kitchen of Mike Avery (mavery@mail.otherwhen.com) And a final offering... onion bread, or zweibelbrot. Depending on the part of Germany she is from, she might like this.... again, I haven't tied this... it's on my list... Onion Rye Bread 2 cups milk 1/4 cups sugar 4 teaspoons salt 1/4 cup salad oil 1 package active dry yeast 1 cup lukewarm water 6 cups sifted Stone-Buhr all-purpose flour 3 tablespoons caraway seeds 1 cup chopped onions 2 1/2 cups unsifted Stone-Buhr rye flour, approximately 1/4 cup Stone-Buhr cornmeal 2 tablespoons cream Scald milk and add sugar, salt and oil. Cool mixture to lukewarm. Soften the yeast in water and add to the milk mixture. Add white flour and mix well. Stir in caraway seeds, onion and 2 cups rye flour and mix. Turn onto surface sprinkled with remaining 1/2 cup rye flour and knead until smooth and elastic, adding enough rye flour to give a fairly stiff dough. Place in a greased bowl, grease top, cover with a towel and let stand in a warm place until double in bulk, about 1 hour. Punch down, cover, and let rise again until double in bulk. Grease 3 9x5 inch loaf pans and sprinkle with cornmeal. Divide the dough into 1/3's, shape the loaves and place in pans. Brush the tops with cream and sprinkle with salt. Cover with a towel and let rise in a warm place until double in bulk, about 1 hour. Bake at 350 F for 1 hour or until loaves have a hollow sound when tapped. Turn out on rack to cool. Makes 3 loaves. Good luck, Mike -- Mike Avery MAvery@mail.otherwhen.com --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v103.n007.14 --------------- From: "Mike Avery" Subject: Re: 7 grain or 10 grain breads Date: Sat, 01 Feb 2003 09:27:13 -0700 "Givens, Debee" wrote: > I have been looking for a good 7 grain or 8,9,10 grain bread recipe. I > have not been successful with the one I have found so far. I have one that has been working very nicely for me. Check out my home page for the recipe at: http://www.sourdoughhome.com/sevengraincerealbread.html We gave a loaf to a friend... her husband never let her have any. He just walked away with it.... and then it was gone. Good luck, Mike -- Mike Avery --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v103.n007.15 --------------- From: Ellen Lee Subject: Dough bucket Date: Sat, 1 Feb 2003 12:07:15 -0500 Jean, you have an intriguing email address! You can order a dough bucket from King Arthur Flour at http://www.bakerscatalogue.com In the most recent catalog, it's shown in the lower right hand corner of page 7. It is item no. 5060, has 6-quart capacity, price $8.95. I have one, and although I seldom make enough bread dough to need such a large container for proofing, I have used it a great deal for other purposes. It's a Good Thing! Ellen Lee --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v103.n007.16 --------------- From: RosesCakeBible@aol.com Subject: Re: crumpet recipe in bread-bakers.v103.n006 Date: Sat, 1 Feb 2003 12:57:30 EST alert re the crumpet recipe: the water was given as 300 ml, 1/2 pint (which is 8 fluid ounces). but the milk was given as 225 ml, 8 fluid ounces. one or the other has to be wrong. Rose Levy Beranbaum [[ Editor's note: Ahh, the wonders of the measurement systems of the US and the UK. Again, from the "How Many?" website as posted in bread-bakers.v103.n005.2 http://www.unc.edu/~rowlett/units/index.html The US fluid ounce is 1/16 of a pint. There are 2 pints in a quart and 4 quarts in a gallon. The US system uses the traditional British wine gallon, defined as 231 cubic inches by Parliament in 1707. The US fluid ounce is about 29.57 milliliters. The British Imperial fluid ounce is 1/20 of an Imperial pint or 1/160 of an Imperial gallon. The Imperial gallon was defined by Parliament in 1824 to be exactly 277.42 cubic inches, which is the volumn of 10 pounds of water under certain conditions. The imperial fluid ounce is about 28.41 milliliters. So, since this recipe is from the ** British ** edition of the Good Housekeeping cookbook, the pints and fluid ounces are Imperial, not US. 1/2 Imperial pint = 10 Imperial fluid ounces = 284.1 ml which is close to 300 ml 8 Imperial fluid ounces = 8 * 28.41 = 227.28 ml, close to 225 ml So if you have US measuring cups and you're working from a British recipe, hope that the recipe has metric ingredient quantities so you don't have to turn on the computer and search for this post! PS - there is a typo in v103.n005.2 - it says "cubic ounces" instead of "cubic inches". It will be fixed in the archives. We will also add a note about the Imperial measurements to the crumpet recipe. Jeff & Reggie ]] --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v103.n007.17 --------------- From: AVRILFELLS@aol.com Subject: Pasta in the bread machine Date: Sat, 1 Feb 2003 13:18:43 EST I always make my pasta in my Panasonic bread machine, although I haven't made whole grain. Normally I use 300gms of flour to 3 eggs and set the machine for the short cycle for about 4 or 5 minutes or until the flour and eggs are combined. It works much better than a mixer, you can add spinach, tomato etc. too. Then it can be rolled out or put through a pasta machine. Regards, Avril Fells --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v103.n007.18 --------------- From: "Margaret G. Cope" Subject: Help Date: Sat, 01 Feb 2003 15:51:26 -0500 I make sour dough bread frequently with great success usually using Peter Reinhart's directions. Early this month I had a lot of firm starter and so I put some into well oiled baggies and into the freezer. I removed one two days ago. Let it warm up in the refrig and when it was thawed proceeded to make the final dough. Disaster. No rise. So I put it away in the refrigerator and will experiment by taking a bit and refreshing it and see if I can resuscitate it. Anybody have any thoughts on what went wrong? Also what is the advice about purchasing a not too expensive scale that weighs ounces, grams etc? --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v103.n007.19 --------------- From: "Regina Rectanus" Subject: Little German Breads Date: Sat, 1 Feb 2003 18:50:15 -0500 This is for Sandy Krause and her search for 'little German breads'. Having visited Munich and southern Germany many times, I found that most Germans dash down to the corner bakery to purchase freshly made breads for their breakfast every morning. As I recall, they are about the size of a Kaiser roll and most have 'seeds' of some kind on top. The crusts are quite shiny. She might ask her exchange student if the rolls she was trying to describe were home made or purchased in the baker shop. We found that the individual breads (little breads) were so good and inexpensive to buy that they are seldom made at home. Depending on where you live in Maryland, there is a very good authentic German bakery in Shepherdstown W. Va., right across the border from Maryland. It is very close to the Antietam battlefield. (Sorry I don't know the exact name but it is the only one in this small college town and is on the main street). I think I have seen the "little breads" in this German Bakery when we've stayed at the Bavarian Inn in Shepherdstown To achieve a shiny topping which will make the seeds adhere to the bread without falling off, I found this recipe from a book called "Bread: Making it the Natural Way." by Joan Wiener and Diana Collier: Crackle Glaze About 10 minutes before the loaf (or rolls) go into the oven, soak 1/2 tsp. yeast and 1 tsp. sugar in 2 Tablespoons of warm water. When it bubbles, stir in 2 Tablespoons arrowroot or cornstarch and 1 tsp. oil. Let it stand until just before the loaf goes into the oven. Stir down the bubbles and brush the glaze on the bread. As it bakes, the crust will crackle and form a mottled design. Makes a shiny, hard crust with blothes, spots, streaks of different colors and will help the seeds stick to the bread when baked. The consistency of the dough in these small loaves is almost like French bread as I recall. A good German book on bread baking from the library may have some recipes in them, or try going on line. There are a tremendous number of authentic recipes for ethnic cooking and baking. For specialty seeds and toppings, King Arthur Flour can provide these. Good luck --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v103.n007.20 --------------- From: "Regina Rectanus" Subject: Yet another Deep Dish Pizza recipe Date: Sat, 1 Feb 2003 22:33:59 -0500 I belonged to Weight Watchers many years ago and in 1987, members received a calendar with a good recipe for each month. I have made this recipe which is nourishing and filling and easily adapts to your own toppings. I've made some adaptations and here is my amended recipe. 3/4 C. all purpose flour l tsp. double acting baking powder 3 T. stick margarine 2 eggs 2/3 C. low fat cottage cheese or regular=20 1/2 C. pizza sauce 2 C. lightly blanched fresh spinach (New Zealand type is good), squeezed dry and chopped. 4 oz. shredded Mozarella cheese 1 T. grated Parmesan cheese Preheat oven to 375 F In a medium bowl, combine flour and baking powder. Add margarine and mix with a fork or pastry blender until mixture resembles coarse crumbs. In a small bowl, beat eggs and cottage cheese with a fork or wire shisk until blended. Mixture will be lumpy. Stir into dry ingredients. Place mixture in a 10" pie plate that has been sprayed with a non-stick cooking spray. Spread pizza sauce over dough evenly leaving a 1/2 " border around the edges. Add the spinach attractively over the sauce, then sprinkle with Mozzarella and Parmesan cheese. Bake 20 minutes. Cool 5 minutes before cutting. This same dough base makes a good foundation for a summer dessert such as sliced fresh peaches sprinkled with cinnamon and sugar or fresh Damson plums. --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v103.n007.21 --------------- From: "Anita" Subject: Re: German Breads Date: Sat, 1 Feb 2003 20:30:14 -0800 Sandy in Maryland asked for some bread ideas for her sisters exchange student from Germany. The "little breads" eaten at breakfast are probably nice crispy crusted hard rolls. They were served all over southern Europe when we visited. Also Kaiser rolls and something like St Francis Rolls as they were called in San Francisco in the 40's. That is just a hard roll made with bread flour and water, maybe a beaten egg white. The black bread could be a version of the Fuenfkornbrot which was posted not too long ago. It also has sunflower seeds. I too miss that and am only second generation German. Gets to you, those good flavors. The black bread is usually a sourdough. Hope this helps, Anita from Northern California --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v103.n007.22 --------------- From: Eric Fung Subject: Rising problems with pumpkin/squash bread Date: Tue, 4 Feb 2003 08:07:33 -0500 I've made the Cranberry-Walnut Pumpkin Bread in "Baking with Julia" twice now and am having trouble with it. The recipe calls for 1 cup of squash puree which is mixed into the dough using a stand mixer. Because the dough is so wet, I'm stirring it by hand, but I don't think this is quite the same as kneading it. The problem is that the enriched dough does not rise very much at all. Not during the initial two hour proofing, nor in the fridge, and not in the oven very much. This is one of the few breads I've made that haven't turned out as described. The finished loaves taste alright, a bit dense though. Anyone else tried making this loaf by hand with better success? --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v103.n007.23 --------------- From: "Koller" Subject: Breadman Ultimate problem Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2003 17:35:56 -0500 Greetings! I really enjoy reading all the posts and the terrific recipes. Hoping someone on the list can help me with this problem. In July 2001 after much soul searching, question asking and research, I purchased a Breadman Ultimate bread machine. I had seen scads of books with wonderful sounding bread-machine recipes and just couldn't help myself. I bought the machine through King Arthur, after several consultations with a consultant there who even explained why they had dropped the Zo and were (at that time) touting the Breadman. Well, life got complicated and I didn't get to use the Breadman very much at first. Just within the last six months have I been breaking it out about once a week and using it. In December 2002 (machine is now 17 months old) I tried to make a loaf of Salsa Bread from Better Homes and Gardens, when, 10 minutes into the Bake Cycle, the machine started to beep madly and displayed the code "_oo". Called Salton and the rep could not tell me what the code meant ; he could only tell me how to reset the machine. One loaf of bread gone. Since that time every other loaf does the same thing. I am throwing way too much dough away. Salton's solution on the last call? Since the machine is out of the one-year warranty, I can send it back (at my expense) with a check for $50 and they will send me a new machine. I don't think so!! Has anyone else ever encountered this problem? I will only use it now to knead bread doughs and then finish them off by hand but haven't had too much luck getting the bread to turn out as we have become accustomed to it. Any help or info would be appreciated! Cindy - who is frustrated beyond tears --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v103.n007.24 --------------- From: Gunter Petersen Subject: German Breads Date: Wed, 05 Feb 2003 16:29:33 -0800 This is in regard to Sandys question about little breads. The german word would be Broetchen or Semmel which is a bread roll or kaiserroll the closest I can think of. Black bread in german is Schwarzbrot where the main ingredient is rye flour. mostly made with sourdough. it is also called Volkorn bread whole grain bread. Here in the San Francisco Bay area those items are available I hope this gives you an idea what she is talking about. If I can be of more help e-mail me Gunter Petersen --------------- END bread-bakers.v103.n007 --------------- -------------- BEGIN bread-bakers.v103.n008 -------------- 001 - Ed Okie Subject: baking gurus may say, "It's impossible!" Date: Fri, 07 Feb 2003 09:14:57 -0500 "Pre-heat the oven!" "Crank-it-up a gazillion-degrees!" "Pre-heat for an hour!" It's an admonishment heard time and again. Oft-repeated, almost absolute "truth." Hog-wash, I say. A cold-start oven not only works - it works very well... and is far simpler, plus safer. A perfect example of the KISS formula: Keep It Simple, Stupid! To wit: I virtually always use a cold-start oven when baking bread, even the persnickety French baguette. And heaven-forbid, I don't even use a baking stone, nor a peel. Two prime motivators: I live in warm sunny Florida and minimizing heat buildup in the kitchen and home is desired (beyond wasted energy cost). Secondly, I value my life and skin - tossing boiling water into a hot oven with resulting steam... isn't fun-&-games! Here's my cold-start method: 1. Prior to bread insertion the oven's floor (sidewalls somewhat) is thoroughly misted with cold water. Speed is not required, it's a leisurely act. 2. Loaves are casually loaded into the oven: no daring-do is involved, nor fogged glasses, nor tossed scalding water. Quickly slamming the door shut isn't an issue. 3. After loaves are inserted the oven is turned on, the door thereafter never opened. The resulting steam-humidification effect created from the oven's floor being heated is remarkable - a cloud quickly envelopes the oven box, literally covers the viewing window, then disappears after a few minutes. My electric convection oven (KitchenAid Superba, moderately expensive but nothing to rave about) reaches the setpoint (say 450F) in 12-13 minutes from a cold start. If the bread formula (recipe) is from an outside source I apply an approximate +20% to the advised time, the baking temperature remains as specified. Example: if a recipe lists 450F for 19 minutes (for a pre-heated oven), 450F is keyed in but the time extended to roughly 23 minutes (trial and error provides a conversion factor, +20% seems about right with my equipment. Items that normally bake longer, popovers an example (380F for 40 minutes), require less time-percentage extension, about 15% or +6 minutes). One caveat: don't even think of using a cold start with a baking stone. The stone's mass will act in opposite fashion (absorb, instead of emit heat) and delay enormously the oven's heat rise. (And stones cause another problem - blocking air circulation by somewhat defeating the design-function of a convection-fan oven.) Yes, I've gone the stone route (the alleged gospel-secret of baking), of dealing with peel sliding-&-slipping frustrations, a pan at the bottom with boiling water tossed in, ice cubes, hot door-opening and repeated misting, etc. Each act is impressive, guaranteed to impress bystanders. But so what? For all the pushups involved (plus steam-burn potential), I find the cold-start/mist-the-floor is far, far simpler... the resulting bread little different. Apply a KISS. - Ed Okie --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v103.n008.2 --------------- From: Ed Okie Subject: Gosselin's pain a l'ancienne bread from Reinhart's notes Date: Fri, 07 Feb 2003 10:12:19 -0500 Baking expert Peter Reinhart posted on last week's bread-list, notes he had taken on a previous visit with French baking legend Philippe Gosselin, the subject: pain a l'ancienne bread. The formula (recipe) is slightly different than published in Peter's recent book, The Bread Baker's Apprentice. Peter asked readers for feedback if anyone attempted Gosselin's version. Here is my experience: The outcome was, well... glorious - rich sweet caramelized nutty flavors, but not that much different than results achieved by the simplified method offered in Peter's Baker's Apprentice book. Peter's bread-list notes last week stated, "...Philippe Gosselin...mixes a dough of about 65% water to flour, with no yeast or salt, using very cold water. This is held overnight in the refrigerator ...The next day he remixes the dough, adding 1% fresh yeast, approx. 1.75% salt, and another 5% cold water." I applied the above percentages on a small 530-gram flour batch (Gold Medal Bread flour), water was at 39F, but the bowl, flour, etc., at room temperature. The mixture (without salt and yeast) incorporates reasonably well within a seven-minute machine mix, but the cold water noticeably slows the blending process (as it always does). After mixing, the dough's temperature was 64F, and immediately went into the 39F refrig overnight. "....Gosselin [the next day] mixes this [adds salt, yeast and +5% water until thoroughly incorporated, about 4 to 6 minutes or so. This dough is allowed to ferment [rise] for 6 hours at room temperature, during which time it awakens and doubles in size. This is a big batch, so a small batch might awaken faster." Gosselin's "about 4 to 6 minutes" was well off the mark. Here's what happened: Adding +5% ice cold water the next day (to an already stiff and cold 39F dough mass) made blending ingredients - very - difficult (impossible); I had to pause the mixer and manually separate the dough several times... required 12 minutes to accomplish, far longer than normal mixing (dough registered 52F after the lengthy mix period). The +5% water created a second problem: the water provided superb lubrication to the cold-congealed dough mass against the wall of the mixing bowl... the dough adamantly clung to the dough-hook and refused to let go; even centrifugal force wouldn't break it loose. Peter's "all at once" mixing method (suggested in the book) is more practical and easier, i.e., include everything on day-one. (A possible variation of Gosselin's formula: include - all - the water during day-one, add salt and yeast on day two?) "...baked like other baguettes (about 460 F). They nearly double in size in the oven, resulting in a crumb with holes somewhere between a regular baguette and a Ciabatta." I achieved sized doubling in the oven (oven spring), superb crust coloration, likewise very good crumb and hole criteria. "...My version is designed to make it more user friendly for non-professionals who don't have the luxury of baking shifts, waiting for 6 hours..." Peter's "user-friendly" approach is noteworthy. Baking gurus too-often get wrapped up in flowery prose and fail to communicate basic if not practical aspects. Waiting 6 hours wasn't a problem in my case.... the smaller (530g) batch achieved its room-temperature doubling in 5 hours. Peter concluded, "...If anyone tries the more difficult (Gosselin's) method described above, I'd love to hear how it turns out. Good luck!" Pain a l'ancienne's methodology, especially the use of ice-cold water and immediate refrigeration will strike first-timers as very unorthodox if not daunting. Words likely entering your mind: "this couldn't possibly work!" But the ending result in bread flavor and appearance is absolutely remarkable! I'm almost inclined to use the word astounding. The second aspect of the l'ancienne formula is overall simplicity, something that becomes apparent only - after - the steps are completed. It is both simpler and easier than normal baking-recipe methods! The methods are just different. The resulting bread taste is almost exotic! (For bread-list readers unfamiliar with "percentages" (a superb and very highly recommended method), weight is used to measure ingredients, not highly-variable "volume" cups. Another bonus: the number of measuring devices necessary is cut in half, i.e., less cleanup. 100% always represents the flour's total weight (530g was used above for 3 baguettes). 65% water calculates to 344 grams (530g x .65 344g); 1% yeast = 5.3g; 1.75% salt = 9.3g; the next-day extra 5% water = 26g. The true elegance of weight (plus using grams) is accuracy, repeatability and simplicity. Making larger or smaller quantities is "a piece of cake," er-r-r, bread in this instance.) - Ed Okie --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v103.n008.3 --------------- From: Frank.Yuhasz@pentairpump.com Subject: dough-rising bucket Date: Fri, 7 Feb 2003 18:22:27 -0500 Jean asked about locating a dough-rising bucket, and one can be purchased from King Arthur Flour, either at 1.800.827.6836 or via their website at www.bakerscatalogue.com. I have one, and it is quite useful indeed. The bucket is a 6-quart round polyethylene container with a lid. It is 9 inches diameter and 8 inches tall, with the capacity to hold 5 pounds of dough made with up to about 12 cups of flour, and allow it to double in volume. The American-made dough-rising bucket is item # 5060 and is $7.95. Rise and shine, Carolyn --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v103.n008.4 --------------- From: Arthur Altstedter Subject: help Date: Mon, 03 Feb 2003 10:01:15 -0700 what is size of 4 oz of butter what in cups is 5 oz of flour ? what is 25 g in size re tsps what is the weight of 1 cup of flour would appreciate where I am able to see a chart that can answers these questions or are you able to answer? Thank you greatly Arthur Altstedter Lethbridge,Alberta,Canada altstedter@shaw.ca --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v103.n008.5 --------------- From: Getitatfreds@aol.com Subject: breadman tr800 Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 17:36:39 EST I have a breadman and I lost the manual...AAAAAAAAAAAA!! I have searched the internet and cannot find any help in how to find the manual on line or how to operate my machine. I have only used it a few times and now it seems like I might as well throw it away without the operating instructions. Please help! --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v103.n008.6 --------------- From: "Erin Nesmith" Subject: multi-grain bread recipes Date: Tue, 4 Feb 2003 09:10:08 -0500 To Debee, who wanted multi-grain bread recipes. Here are two I like from Father Dominic Garramone's cookbooks. I love his recipes and advice. By watching his PBS show, I made the transition from a bread machine baker to a scratch baker. Now I'm having fun with artisan and sourdough breads. His cookbooks, which I highly recommend, are available at www.breaking-bread.com Erin Nesmith, who always has flour under her fingernails. Nine-Grain Bread Yield: 2 loaves Sponge: 1 c. lukewarm water 2 pkgs. yeast 1 c. bread flour 1/2 c. wheat flour 1 tsp. brown sugar Dough: 1 1/2 c. lukewarm water 2 Tbs. vegetable oil 2 Tbs. brown sugar 2 tsp. salt 1 c. nine- or ten-grain cereal mix (Use the kind to make hot cereal. Bob's Red Mill has some nice varieties, and you can also find varieties at the bulk food section of a large supermarket or health food store.) 1/4 c. millet 1/4 c. flaxseed 4 1/4 to 5 c. bread flour For sponge, combine all ingredients in medium bowl and beat until smooth. Let stand 20 minutes or until foamy and doubled in volume. For dough, add water, oil, brown sugar, and salt to sponge. Bear until smooth. Add cereal mix, millet and flaxseed, stir until thoroughly incorporated. Add 2 cups bread flour and beat until thoroughly incorporated. Repeat with 2 cups bread flour. Add enough of the remaining flour, 1/4 cup at a time, until a dough forms. It will be quite sticky, but don't add too much flour. Turn dough out onto a lightly floured surface and knead 10 to 12 minutes. Place in an oiled bowl and cover. Let rise for about 1 hour, or until doubled. Punch down dough and knead briefly to deflate large bubbles. Divide dough in half and shape into loaves. Place in well-greased loaf pans (be sure to get the sides, as my first batch stuck on the sides) to rise for about 45 minutes, or until doubled. Bake in a preheated 375 F oven for 35 to 45 minutes, or until loaves are golden brown, slide easily from the pan, and sound hollow when tapped on the bottom. Let cool on wire racks. From More Breaking Bread by Father Dominic Garramone, OSB My notes: I have also added the multi-grain cereal (I use Bob's Red Mill 10 grain blend) to the sponge. It makes for less crunch in the finished loaf. I haven't had flaxseed or millet on hand so I've never used them in this recipe. I use 1 rounded tablespoon of SAF instant yeast rather than 2 packages of regular yeast, and I let the sponge go for longer. Ezekiel's Six-Grain Bread This recipe is found in Ezekiel 4:9, where God tells the prophet, "Take wheat and barley, beans and lentils, millet and spelt; put them in a single vessel and make bread out of them". Yield: 2 loaves 2 c. warm water 2 pkgs. yeast 2 Tbs. honey 1/4 c. vegetable oil 2 tsp. salt 1 1/2 c. graham (whole wheat) flour, divided 1/4 c. lentil flour 1/4 c. white bean flour (fava, navy, etc.) 1/4 c. barley flour 1/4 c. millet flour 1/4 c. spelt flour 1 1/2 Tbs. ground coriander 2 to 2 1/2 c. bread flour sesame or poppy seeds (optional) Combine water, yeast, honey, oil and salt in a large bowl, stir to dissolve. Stir in 1/2 c. of the graham flour. Beat thoroughly. Let stand 10 minutes, or until foamy. Sift the remaining 1 c. graham flour, lentil flour, bean flour, barley flour, millet flour, spelt flour and coriander together. Stir until well blended. Add flour mixture, about 1 c. at a time, to the yeast mixture, stirring thoroughly after each addition. Add enough of the bread flour to make a stiff dough that pulls away from the sides of the bowl. Turn the dough out onto a lightly floured surface and knead 10 to 12 minutes. Place in an oiled bowl and cover. Let rise 1 1/2 hours, or until dough has doubled in bulk. Punch down dough. Knead lightly, then let dough rest 5 minutes. Divide in half and shape into two round loaves. Place loaves on a lightly greased baking sheet. Cover and let rise 30 to 45 minutes, or until doubled. While dough is rising, preheat oven to 350 F. If desired, lightly brush the tops of risen loaves with water and sprinkle with sesame or poppy seeds. Bake in a 350 F oven for about 45 minutes, or until tops are browned and loaves sound hollow when tapped. Remove from baking sheets and let cool on wire racks. Note: to make the bean or grain flours, grind dried beans or whole grains in an electric blender or food processor. Do not grind more than 1/4 c. at a time and take lots of breaks so your machine doesn't overheat. It will take quite some time to grind the flour. Sift the ground mixture though a fine sieve before use, or use a regular flour sifter if you want a coarser blend. These various flours absorb moisture at different rates, so be sure to follow the directions about sifting them together before adding them to the yeast mixture. Pearl barley can be used to make the barley flour. From Breaking Bread with Father Dominic, by Father Dominic Garramone --------------- END bread-bakers.v103.n008 --------------- Copyright (c) 1996-2003 Regina Dwork and Jeffrey Dwork All Rights Reserved