Date: Sun, 1 Dec 2002 01:00:02 -0700 (MST) -------------- BEGIN bread-bakers.v102.n055 -------------- 001 - Reggie Dwork Subject: Two weeks left Date: Sat, 30 Nov 2002 23:54:12 -0800 Only 14 days left in the great bread-bakers HearthKit raffle! Get your tickets before it's too late! And thanks to all who have entered already. Reggie & Jeff --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v102.n055.2 --------------- From: Easyquilt1@aol.com Subject: Mahlab Date: Sun, 24 Nov 2002 07:41:31 -0500 The Penzeys web site has mahlab listed starting at approx 1.49 for one oz. http://www.penzeys.com/ Put mahlab in "search" and you will get the what and how much info. If you are lucky (like I and a couple others on this list, you will have a Penzeys that you can walk into and buy it off the shelf. chris in KC --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v102.n055.3 --------------- From: Rick Quarles Subject: wheat-free Bread Date: Sun, 24 Nov 2002 09:13:30 -0500 Try a search for gluten-free. Several sites are: Rick --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v102.n055.4 --------------- From: DRogers248@aol.com Subject: Re: making butter Date: Sun, 24 Nov 2002 09:18:36 EST > I have a used Toastmaster Bread & Buttermaker without the recipe book. > Although I can find a lot of bread recipes but no buttermaking recipes. > Does somebody have a recipe to share on how to make butter? > > Thank You > Louis Schwartz You would have to have milk from the cow and let the cream rise to the top. I've never made it in a bread machine but I have made it in a crank churn and just shaking it in a quart jar with lid. You have it really cold and crank/shake till the butter comes to the top. It takes a LOT of cream to make a little butter. deb* --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v102.n055.5 --------------- From: Larry Klevans Subject: KA Training Date: Sun, 24 Nov 2002 09:32:01 -0500 I too went to the two King Arthur training sessions in Wilmington, DE, and had the same instructors that Jeff reported (and the same good experiences). I was lucky enough to win one of the cookbooks. Their visit was cosponsored by AMCE Stores, owned by Albertson, who just started to carry King Arthur flours. Between the two sessions, the participants in the training session completely bought out the local ACME's inventory of KA flours. Larry from Maryland --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v102.n055.6 --------------- From: "Adam N." Subject: sourdough starter trades Date: Sun, 24 Nov 2002 10:45:31 -0500 I have: San Francisco, Egypt, Bahrain, Russian, King Arthur 1790 Boston, 1889 Alaskan, 1847 Oregon Trail. Trade for any available other viable culture. Mail me directly at adam@xhaos.org Adam --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v102.n055.7 --------------- From: Harry Glass Subject: Re: herblady's bread machine hints Date: Sun, 24 Nov 2002 07:55:58 -0800 (PST) I have been baking bread weekly for at least 15 years, and my experience with the useful life of yeast is very different from herb lady's. I have been using SAF Instant for a number of years, and before that I used Red Star Instant Active (both packaged in 500 gm/17.6 oz bags). I all that time, I have never had to discard a loaf of bread because of weak yeast performance, nor have I discarded the yeast because it was past its "best if used by" date. Just a few weeks ago, I finished the last teaspoon (the amount I use for a large bread machine loaf loaf) of SAF Instant with an expiration date of April 1999. I began using it after its expiration date, kept it in the refrigerator (not the freezer), used it for over 2 years, and never had any indication of weakening of the yeast before the bag was empty. The bottom line of my experience is that good yeast which is kept in the refrigerator, and handled carefully (kept open only long enough to spoon out the yeast, and then tightly closed with a rubber band in its original 500 gm foil bag), will last a very long time. In fact, I have no idea how long it may last because I've never had to discard any! --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v102.n055.8 --------------- From: Nifcon@aol.com Subject: Andy and Penny - Wheat free Date: Sun, 24 Nov 2002 10:57:33 EST If you're web-capable, entering <"wheat-free" bread recipes> into Google will get you thousands of hits - more info than you ever wanted! John --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v102.n055.9 --------------- From: Nifcon@aol.com Subject: Bitter almonds Date: Sun, 24 Nov 2002 11:03:22 EST The botanical names are Prunus dulcis var. amara - bitter almond Prunus dulcis var. dulcis - sweet, safe almond, the kind you eat as a nut and make almond milk from. Source - "The Oxford Book of Food Plants". John --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v102.n055.10 --------------- From: fred smith Subject: Loaves without ears Date: Sun, 24 Nov 2002 12:21:31 -0500 > From: "Gilligan, Jonathan M" > Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 10:14:18 -0600 > > I am having a problem with my loaves. I get wonderful flavor and a nice > open crumb, but for the life of me I cannot get a beautiful grigne with ears. > > When I put batards and boules in the oven, the grigne opens up nicely in > the initial spring (first 2 minutes or so), but then the inner part rises > up during the next 5 minutes or so and fills the split, so when the bread > finishes baking, there are no ears. While I've not baked the way you describe, nor the types of bread you describe, I'd say this is clear evidence that you need to let the loaves rise longer, before slashing or baking. When it rises "too much" (whatever that means, exactly) after being placed in the oven, it indicates under-proofing. ---- Fred Smith -- fredex@fcshome.stoneham.ma.us ----------------------------- "For him who is able to keep you from falling and to present you before his glorious presence without fault and with great joy--to the only God our Savior be glory, majesty, power and authority, through Jesus Christ our Lord, before all ages, now and forevermore! Amen." ----------------------------- Jude 1:24,25 (niv) ----------------------------- --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v102.n055.11 --------------- From: Barbara Ross Subject: Recipe for Dakota bread?? Date: Sun, 24 Nov 2002 12:29:41 -0500 Our local Great Harvest bread store has a bread they call DAKOTA BREAD. It's full of sunflower sees, sesame seeds, poppy seeds, whatever. Just really crunchy. Does anyone have a recipe for this bread? I've tried some bread that are seeded and it's just not he same. Barb Ross NJ --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v102.n055.12 --------------- From: "Barda, Joe & Chellie" Subject: enough already about almonds... Date: Sun, 24 Nov 2002 15:19:37 -0600 There are two principal forms of the Almond: 1.. the one with entirely pink flowers, Amygdalus communis, var. dulcis, producing Sweet Almonds; 2.. the other, A. communis, var. amara, with flowers slightly larger, and the petals almost white towards the tips, deepening into rose at the base, producing Bitter Almonds. Botanically, they are considered merely variations of the one type, and the difference in variety has been supposed originally to be mainly owing to climate, the Bitter Almond being a native of Barbary. The Sweet Almond is the earliest to flower, and is cultivated more largely than the Bitter Almond. It is valuable as a food and for confectionery purposes, as well as in medicine, being rich in a bland oil, and sustaining as a nutriment: the staying power conferred by a meal of Almonds and raisins is well known. It is only the Bitter Almond in the use of which caution is necessary, especially with regard to children, as it possesses dangerous poisonous properties. --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v102.n055.13 --------------- From: "Mike Avery" Subject: Re: starter formula Date: Sun, 24 Nov 2002 14:26:25 -0700 SeawrightS@aol.com wrote: > I am a living history re-enactor and would love to find a real good > formula for sour dough starter.....I have my glass jar ready and > waiting....I would be grateful for any help you can give me with > brands of yeast and flour.... My first suggestion is... don't use yeast. If someone tells you to use baker's yeast with sourdough they either don't understand sourdough, or they have a bad starter. Some baskers who are on a tight schedule (and who - in my opinion - don't understand sourdough) will mix baker's yeast with sourdough. But, it doesn't help the process. There are two good approaches in getting a starter. One is to buy one or get one from someone who has a good starter. The other is to culture your own starter. Getting a culture from someone else is an attractive option for beginners because you don't have to worry if you have a good culture. Culturing your own starter is a good option, but better for a more experienced baker. Three good sources for starters: * King Arthur Flour ( go to "the baker's catalogue online" and search by word for "sourdough" and look at item 1522) * Sourdough International (http://www.sourdo.com/) * the Friend's of Carl web page which offers a free - and highly regarded - Oregon Trail starter dating to 1847 (http://home.att.net/~carlsfriends/). All of them offer good starters for prices ranging from a stamped self-addressed envelope to around $20.00. Or you can culture your own starter by following the instructions at http://www.sourdoughhome.com/startingastarter.html or http://samartha.org/SD/MakeStarter01.html Both pages suggest using whole wheat or rye flour to start a starter for reasons they explain at some length. They also suggest against using basker's yeast, grapes, cabbage leaves, or other fruits or vegetables to start a starter. Basically, they aren't necessary and only delay getting a stable starter. Eat the fruit or vegetables and enjoy them - you'll get more out of them than the starter. Mike If you have more questions -- Mike Avery MAvery@mail.otherwhen.com ICQ: 16241692 AOL IM:MAvery81230 Phone: 970-642-0282 * Spam is for lusers who can't get business any other way * Once seen on road signs all over the United States: Pull off The road To change a flat Protect your life-- No spare for that! Burma-Shave --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v102.n055.14 --------------- From: Nifcon@aol.com Subject: Re: Ed - Hearthkit. Date: Sun, 24 Nov 2002 17:44:31 EST I wrote: >>improvement in final bread is only slightly better than using bakestones<< Ed ("Ed Dalton" ) wrote: >Not sure what you base this statement concerning the HearthKit on, as you say the only way you would have one is to win it in a lottery. This indicates to me you haven't tried one. I have owned and used a HearthKit since January, baking several hundred loaves. In a two week period in February I baked over a hundred loaves for an event. Prior to using a HearthKit I used a baking stone for many years and find the HearthKit produces a far superior loaf. Additionally chicken, Cornish game hens, duck etc, come out wonderful. Far superior to any other method I have tried at home.< You're perfectly correct - in future when asked about the hearthkit I will reply "I don't know if it's worth the money or not because I haven't tried one" which is all I'm entitled to say. I wrote: >>little time honing your knife skills so that crushing and chopping a clove of garlic is a matter of seconds, quicker than taking the press off the hook<< Ed wrote: >If one hones his walking skills an automobile isn't necessary, if one hones his candle making skills electric lights aren't necessary.< Neither statement is true - if you need to go 300 miles in 12 hours, no amount of walking practice will allow you to perform that journey on foot. If you need a milllion candlepower light to power a lighthouse then a million candles are an impractical way of achieving that light output no matter how good a candlemaker you are. Ed wrote: >There are a lot of things that are not necessary, however it's just fun to have and use them. The HearthKit is a great addition to those that enjoy the fun things and like making great breads at home.< Labour saving and deskilling devices are not fun to use, where's the fun in using a garlic press? A blender?. A mixer. Don't get me wrong, I' m not a neo-luddite, If I want to make Brioche I'll run my Kenwood (I'm not stingy with money when I think it's well spent) rather than mix the brioche by hand (yes I have done that). The kitchen equipment I enjoy using is well-made basic tools, knives, pans, excellent quality bakeware. I even have a couple of bannetons - the bread's no better- they just feel nice to pick up. A large proportion of the stock of kitchen shops is made up of items destined for the bottom drawer, the Gadgets' Graveyard. I can, and, due to circumstances beyond my control , often do make bread, excellent bread, and cook fine food in very poorly equipped kitchens because a manual skill can be improved by a better implement but if the skill has been replaced by a machine or was never developed in the first place you've got problems. And I'm not unaware that, due to illness or injury, a technique may be unavailable to an individual. Parkinson's Disease has already robbed me of much of my skill with a knife and I can no longer use a peel. But I can still crush a garlic clove with a knife faster than I can use and clean a press. I'm also well aware that I'm way off-topic here so I'd better stop. John --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v102.n055.15 --------------- From: "Joan and Larry Ross" Subject: re advantium oven Date: Sun, 24 Nov 2002 19:03:18 -0500 My old Sears double oven stove finally died after 30 years of constant use. So I wanted to buy a state of the art oven. I bought the G.E. Advantium 2 wall oven, a step down from the more costly Advantium. Anyway I have baked with the speed cook feature and the conventional feature and was very satisfied with the results. It does takes some getting used to determine how to set the upper and lower heating levels for the speed cook feature. I used their cook book as a guide. I made a variety of quick breads, coffee cakes and yeast breads which came out excellent. My husband and I installed the oven ourselves (a big hassle- as the stove must be installed under an existing cabinet etc. it wasn't that easy for us. Also in the long rung, make sure your fan exhausts outside (cut a hole in the wall) not recirculates :-) I suggest getting someone from wherever you buy the oven to install it. Home Depot, Sears and Best buy sell this stove as well as other stores I am sure. Otherwise I am very happy with all of its features and how it cooks, bakes and microwaves. Joan --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v102.n055.16 --------------- From: Corinaesq@aol.com Subject: Re: Toastmaster Bread & Buttermaker Date: Sun, 24 Nov 2002 20:28:55 -0500 > I have a used Toastmaster Bread & Buttermaker without > the recipe book. Although I can find a lot of bread > recipes but no buttermaking recipes. Does somebody > have a recipe to share on how to make butter? I have one of those. All you do is put 1/2 pint heavy whipping cream into the buttermaker, with the paddle in, PUT THE PLASTIC TOP OVER THE BREAD PAN or you'll have cream all over your machine, then close the top and press the select button until you reach the number for butter, and then press Start. In about a half hour, you'll have fresh homemade butter. You add the salt later. You can also add honey, or orange marmelade, or blueberry marmelade, etc. for flavored butters. Corina --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v102.n055.17 --------------- From: "jronning" Subject: Re: Getting Started Date: Sun, 24 Nov 2002 20:21:05 -0600 Laura - Thank you for your input as to my questioning using a Vita Mixer for my grain grinding. After using the Vita Mix for a couple of weeks, I see that it is great for grinding up the grains and making one loaf of bread. I did take the flour temperature right after grinding and it rose above 130 degrees at which point I have been informed some enzymes are killed I believe I will want to also purchase a dedicated grinder so I can make bigger batches of bread and it sounds like the DLX mixer is the way to go for big batches of bread. It is great reading all of the messages and seeing the receipes. I am interested Laura in what different ways you use your Vita Mixer. Do all of you dedicated bread makers purchase your wheat berries in large quantities? I see one can order 25 and 50 pound bags. I assume the berries keep for years. Do many of you own and use a bread machine? Judith --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v102.n055.18 --------------- From: "Mark Judman" Subject: Re: bubbling pizza crust Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 10:38:05 -0500 I too used to be troubled by giant bubbles forming on my pizzas when I would partially bake them, un-topped, in order to get a nice crisp crust. I'd squeeze down the bubbles using my peel after about a minute, but they'd usually re-form, anyway. I did this for years. But no more! I've solved the problem to my satisfaction. I no longer pre-bake, un-topped. My technique: 1. Oven at max, 550 F., for me. If your oven goes higher, do it. 2. Use a pizza stone (or baking stone). 3. Thin crust. 4. Crust is spread with olive oil first, to water-proof it from the sauce and other toppings, and for flavor (of course). Crust bubbling is now within the normal or acceptable range and I get a nice crisp crust. (I too use Carol Field's "Italian Baker" dough.) Mark Judman --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v102.n055.19 --------------- From: Peach_Rx Subject: Bosch/Grain Mills/Dough Enhancers ???'s Comments Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 11:07:43 -0800 Hi all: Just wanted to say thank you for all the info I received when I had questions on what kind of mixer to buy. Just received the Bosch Concept 7, made 4 loaves of bread in it this weekend, and it was great! Made two whole wheat, and two La Brea's rosemary olive oil. Next major purchase is a grain mill. The bosch has a stone attachment, and a steel attachment. Has anyone tried these, or is it better to go with another stand alone brand? Any comments greatly appreciated. Also, since the instructions were rather vague, I would like to know what setting 1 - 4 that you use for the kneading. The other question I had was that with just the whisk and the kneading blade, which one would you use for something like mashed potatoes? My kitchenaid had the kneading, whisk, and paddle attachment. The Bosch just has the two. I also made some Stuffing Bread for Thanksgiving (recipe on KA's website). This I made in the Zo bread machine. The first loaf was very dense and didn't rise all that much. Since I was making three with the same ingredients, on the second and third loaf I added some commercial "Dough Enhancer" - 1 1/2 tsp. WOW - what a difference! Baked up at least 3-4" higher. Regards, CJC --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v102.n055.20 --------------- From: Paige_Everhart@rge.com Subject: Mahleb source Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 15:29:28 -0500 An online source for mahleb (they spell it mahlab) is Penzey's Spices, at penzeys.com, in quantities from an ounce to a pound. They have a number of "specialty" spices, as they call them, as well as more common seasonings and blends. From personal experience I can recommend them and their customer service. >>Diane Brown wrote: There is a wonderful spice called Mahleb, used in the middle east, and made from the pits of a type of cherry. It is available whole or ground from middle eastern groceries<< --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v102.n055.21 --------------- From: Masshlx@aol.com Subject: Sourdough Pizza Date: Sat, 30 Nov 2002 06:09:19 EST Does anybody here have a recipe for sourdough pizza dough? I've searched all over and haven't been able to find one. Thanks in advance, Patrick --------------- END bread-bakers.v102.n055 --------------- Copyright (c) 1996-2002 Regina Dwork and Jeffrey Dwork All Rights Reserved