Date: Sat, 21 Sep 2002 00:59:48 -0600 (MDT) -------------- BEGIN bread-bakers.v102.n042 -------------- 001 - Susan Gable - sustaining bread crust crispness --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v102.n042.1 --------------- From: Susan Gable Subject: Re: Unsalted butter Date: Sat, 14 Sep 2002 22:51:24 -0700 > >From: "Herman Reinhart" >Subject: Unsalted butter >Date: Thu, 12 Sep 2002 11:38:36 -0700 > > >Why do some recipes call for unsalted butter then add salt? Is there a >reason or is this just left over from the time people churned the milk to >get butter? > >Herman Reinhart >reinhart@bigvalley.net > Using unsalted butter and adding salt gives you more precise control over the amount of salt in your dough. -- --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v102.n042.2 --------------- From: "Joshi, Anjali" Subject: Question on using unglazed clay tiles Date: Sat, 14 Sep 2002 20:26:23 -0700 Hello everyone. My baking stone had cracked badly, and so I went out and bought a few inexpensive unglazed clay tiles from the home improvement store. (that was thanks to a suggestion from a few people on the list). They worked well, did not crack, but the food stuck to the tiles too much and did not scrape off easily. (I remember someone had also suggested using fireplace tiles, but since the fireplace store was some distance away, I tried the Home Depot first.) Can anyone help me with ideas on what might have gone wrong? This how I baked with them: 1. Soaked the tiles in cold water for 3-4 hours. 2. Set them in a cold oven and then turned the oven on. 3. Once the correct temp was reached, I used a peel to put the food (in this case, pizza and mini-calzones) on the tiles, baked as usual. All suggestions welcome :-) Anjali --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v102.n042.3 --------------- From: Cliff Shettler Subject: the loss of a dough blade Date: Sun, 15 Sep 2002 21:30:59 -0500 I found your site and I'm wondering if you can give me some advice. My neighbor gave me his Welbilt bread machine, barely used, and I was so thrilled. I baked one delicious loaf of bread. My father-in-law was visiting and he proceeded to toss the dough blade in the trash. We didn't realize this until our garbage had already been collected. I've called the obvious suspects (the manufacturer, out of business; Williams Sonoma, where my neighbor bought it, no luck; culinary parts suppliers, no luck). Is there any hope or do I have to throw the whole machine out? Thanks so much for taking the time for this, Sincerely, Sandy [[ Editor's note: It's been about a year since this was last posted and several people have asked recently. So here is the Welbilt information. -- Reggie ]] Here is some useful information on obtaining customer service, parts and literature. This is from http://www.enodis.com/breadmaker.html "Please be advised that several years ago Welbilt Corporation sold its consumer appliance division to: Appliance Corporation of America P.O. Box 220709 Great Neck New York 11021 1-800-872-1656 and is no longer responsible for the manufacture and warranty of the Bread Machine, or any other household appliance licensed under Welbilt's name. Appliance Corporation of America will be happy to assist you and answer your consumer appliance questions. Please contact customer service at For further information: Phone: 1-800-872-1656 (Monday through Friday, 8:30AM to 5:00PM EST), or email: Cecilia Jones, Customer Service Manager For Welbilt small appliance PARTS and LITERATURE, and MANUALS contact: Tritronics Inc. 1306 Continental Dr. Abingdon, MD. 21009 1-410-676-7300 (extension "6" for parts) (Monday through Friday, 8:30AM to 5:00PM EST) Fax 1-800-888-3293 ONLINE PARTS ORDERING: http://www.tritronicsinc.com/aca.html We regret that neither Enodis plc nor Welbilt Corporation will be able to help with any questions you may have relating to these products. Copyright (c) 2000 Enodis plc except where explicitly stated otherwise. All rights reserved." --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v102.n042.4 --------------- From: RosesCakeBible@aol.com Subject: "Weigh to Bake!" Date: Wed, 18 Sep 2002 16:00:05 EDT WEIGH TO BAKE Of all the sweet things in life, few are as sweet as second chances. But when it comes to baking, you simply don't get any. You have to get it right the first time. When you bake a cake, you cannot taste it part way through the baking process and decide what to add. And if you measured the flour with cavalier indifference or a heavy hand, you cannot undo the effects of dryness and heavy texture. A cook must constantly taste, prod, evaluate and adapt to the variation of ingredients. A baker, however, is working with ingredients such as flour, sugar, baking powder, liquid and butter, which are far more consistent. The variance in baking results comes from the manner in which people measure the ingredients even more than from the mixing technique. Using scales to weigh the ingredients totally eliminates this problem. Bakers are born, not made. We are exacting people who delight in submitting ourselves to rules and formulas if it means achieving repeatable perfection. The rewards of this discipline go beyond providing absolute sensory pleasure. There is also a feeling of magic and alchemy that comes from starting with ingredients that don't remotely resemble the delicious magnificence of the final result. Any lover of baking ultimately will adore using scales once past the fear of what sometimes, at first, is perceived as a foreign object. Weighing ingredients is not only reassuring, it is much faster than measuring and results in far less cleanup. Consider how much easier it is to scoop cocoa or powdered sugar, with the inevitable lumps, into a bowl for weighing, rather than to try to measure out a level cup, lightly spooned. And I wouldn't dream of trying to figure out how tightly to pack brown sugar into a cup when I can weigh it in a flash. Also think how much more pleasant it is to weigh a greasy substance like vegetable shortening, rather than to smear it into a measuring cup or to weigh sticky corn syrup or honey. Scales that have the ability to eliminate (tare) the weight of the bowl also make it possible to add the dry ingredients to the mixing bowl, one after the other, rather than having to use separate bowls for each. They can then be mixed together, eliminating the need either to sift the flour or to sift the dry ingredients together. Another benefit of weighing is the ease of decreasing or increasing recipes. And once in a great while, I have completed a batter or dough and suddenly wondered if I remembered to add an ingredient. When in doubt, all I need to do is weigh the final unbaked product. If it is less than the total weight of the recipe, my suspicions are confirmed and I can add the missing ingredient. Of course, inaccurate scales are worse than no scales at all. The old fashioned beam-balance scales (the food goes on one pedestal and is balanced by weights set on the other one) is accurate but slower than the pendulum or electronic scales. I avoid scales made with springs as over time and with use they may rust or wear out and become less accurate. The best electronic scales can and should be calibrated regularly, using weights. Less expensive electronic models may not be as reliable so, as an alternate to a good quality electronic scale, I prefer a simple inexpensive pendulum scale such as the Cuisinarts one (800/726-0190) retailing for about $35. The two electronic scales that I have worked with for several years and which I can swear by are: the Mettler laboratory scale: Model #SB16001, 800/786-0038, retailing for $2,170; and the Edlund Model # E80, available through local food service equipment dealers $260. Both readily switch back and forth between ounces and grams. The Mettler's accuracy is sufficient to weigh a teaspoon of baking powder and its range of 35 pounds makes it possible to weigh ingredients in one bowl for a large wedding cake. The Edlund's capacity is only 5 pounds. The following cake from The Cake Bible has proven, over the past 10 years, to be a readers' favorite and is a great choice for the upcoming holidays. It is a moist, exceptionally full flavored chocolate pound cake but the slices resemble pieces of dark bread. If you have never baked by weight, borrow a scale and try it just once. I guarantee you will be an instant believer. I'll work on converting you to metric next but I'm taking this one step at a time! Note: to convert your favorite recipes to weight: 1 cup of sifted cake flour=3.5 ounces/100 grams, 1 cup of granulated sugar=7 ounces/200 grams, 1 cup of light brown sugar, firmly packed=7.65 ounces/217 grams --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v102.n042.5 --------------- From: NuttyBakerGirl Subject: re: unsalted butter Date: Sat, 14 Sep 2002 19:38:22 -0600 "Why do some recipes call for unsalted butter then add salt? Is there a reason or is this just left over from the time people churned the milk to get butter? Herman Reinhart" First, unsalted butter is ALWAYS fresher than the salted stuff. Manufactuers often times salt regular butter when it gets close to spoiling in order to set back the sell by date. Second, the amount of salt in salted butter is never really known. It changes from brand to brand, and even if you didn't add salt to the recipe, it can still really affect the taste. Often the amount of salt in salted butter is too much for yeast in a bread recipe. So, for a much fresher, cleaner taste in the product and consistent results, always use unsalted butter. Roxanne --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v102.n042.6 --------------- From: goldman@betterbaking.com Subject: Re: Several things from bread-bakers.v102.n041 Date: Sat, 14 Sep 2002 21:45:36 -0400 Hi All First an announcement - if you check http://www.betterbaking.com you will see a neat announcement for the first time ever, Home Baking Show. If you are in Toronto or Detroit area or plan to be in the city that weekend (NOV 8-10) come by the show (it is at the International Center)- I will be there doing book signings but moreover, it is a first time ever HUGE baking show for home bakers....so, this is sure to be a treat. Next - storing bread - I make smaller loaves so that there are no leftovers OR, I place the cut side down on the counter and lightly wrap the rest of the bread in a clean tea towel. Crust stays crusty, crumb stays fresh. Never heard of the Bosch Universal. Tried the Bosch - was not thrilled - but you all know I am a kitchenaid diehard. The Delonghi mixer - I have a feeling that is the new name for the old Rival or Kenwood - it is fine but you have to use it at full capacity - (7 quarts) - I really like my oversized kitchenaid (the 6 quart )and will be testing the tilt back head on their new Artisan - which gives you capacity and flexibility (tilt back head is helpful) For the question about salted versus salted butter. Salt is added to butter for taste but it also masks bad butter - i.e. if butter is off or stale - salt in it can masks that. Be that as it may - salt in baking is used to regulate fermentation. Without it - bread would spread and sprawl, as it rises, in a most ungainly manner. However - there is no telling - if one used salted butter - what proportion of salt is already present in the butter - If you use unsalted.... a) that is pure of taste and you can see it is fresh and b) THEN you add the appropriate ratio of salt to the bread dough vis a vis the other ingredients, and with a regard to regulating fermentation and providing taste. The only time I have ever seen Salted butter called for is in some French recipes - Kouig Aman is one - happy baking, marcy goldman from www.BetterBaking.Com --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v102.n042.7 --------------- From: "Chris Dalrymple" Subject: Unsalted butter Date: Sat, 14 Sep 2002 22:33:25 -0500 Herman wanted to know why some recipes call for unsalted butter and then add salt. It's to give you greater control over the amount of salt in your recipe. The amount can vary between different brands of salted butter. --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v102.n042.8 --------------- From: Dave Glaze Subject: preheating the oven Date: Sat, 14 Sep 2002 21:48:43 -0700 Richard L Walker asked if anyone preheats their oven above the baking temperature. I do that most times, especially for lean breads. I find the higher heat along with the insulation in my electric self clean oven, a layer of tiles to bake on and a layer of tiles on a rack just below the top element, I can open the door to pour water into a pan and then spray the bread three times at 30 seconds intervals, and then open the oven to rotate my breads halfway through the baking. I like my breads quite dark and sometimes preheat the oven even higher than 50 degrees above the baking temperature. I don't turn my oven down until after I've done all the spraying, and sometimes I wait longer that. My most important tool next to my metric balance scales is my "instant" thermometer (it is not instant). I make sure my lean breads register 200 to 210 degrees Fahrenheit, and if they are not dark enough I turn the heat down or off and leave them in the oven another 5 to 10 minutes. To retain moisture, I place an upside down tin over the air vent that is just below my back burner for 10 minutes then remove it (If I forget, the crust comes out thicker and tougher than I want it to be.). Cheers, Dave Glaze, Powell River, BC, Canada --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v102.n042.9 --------------- From: Dave Glaze Subject: Re Mixer Recommendations Date: Sat, 14 Sep 2002 22:11:30 -0700 I have a Kitchen Aid mixer, professional model, which is the largest they make for the home kitchen, and it handles most of what I want it to do. I was a bit disappointed because there were some recipes that it had to struggle with. I had heard that the Bosch was a heavier mixer, but when I read their ad, I wondered if it was a good machine to use for artisan breads. The ad boasted about how the Bosch dough hooks incorporated lots of air into the dough. My understanding is that with artisan breads, you have to be careful to not oxidize the dough. Incorporating air seems to work against that. Some bakers us the autolyse (rest period) to cut down on the mixing. Using a food processor also cuts down the mixing time. I haven't done any comparisons to see if it makes a difference. I'm just going by what I've read in the books. Cheers, Dave Glaze, Powell River, BC, Canada --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v102.n042.10 --------------- From: Carolyn Subject: Bread Storage Date: Sun, 15 Sep 2002 07:10:23 -0400 Someone said: <> => and this time of year, don't forget tomato-bread salad! Carolyn Schaffner in Buffalo, NY --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v102.n042.11 --------------- From: "Jazzbel" Subject: Unsalted butter and scales Date: Sun, 15 Sep 2002 07:29:40 -0400 Herman asked: >>>>>>>>>>Why do some recipes call for unsalted butter then add salt? Is there a reason or is this just left over from the time people churned the milk to get butter? It might well be an old-fashioned thing, if it is, there may be a good explanation for it: Different brands of butter contain vastly different amounts of salt, so the taste of your bread is different for different brands of butter. My folks notice the difference in the saltiness of bread more than I do. Unsalted butter has shorter shelf life--so I prefer salted butter. Too keep my bread fairly consisted, I use a particular brand of irish butter, and, when that is not available, I use a certain New Zealand brand. To add my comments to the scale thing: Weighing when baking does have many advantages. Specially when you are making, let's say, 4 loaves of bread--and the pesky recipe calls for you to "spoon" the flour into the cup. I wish American authors would stop stop spooning flour and start writing their recipes with scooped flour-- Madeleine Kamman did it in "The New Making of a Cook". So, it is nice to convert 1 lb. of flour into 4 lbs. of flour. But, I do not see any incredible advantage of the metric system over the imperial system. In the metric system, you multiply and divide by ten-- good. In the imperial system, well, you multiply and divide by four--even better, easier to halve things than to get 3/5 of things. I grew up with the metric system, and it was difficult as an adult to adapt to the imperial system. I really like modern british baking books because they present both metric and imperial measurements. Rose does the same in The Cake Bible. And, 1 oz. of water weighs 1oz. so, even the water issue is resolved in the imperial system. Later, Jazzbel --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v102.n042.12 --------------- From: "kylewarendorf@myvzw.com" Subject: Mixers Date: Sun, 15 Sep 2002 11:45:30 -0400 >>Then, I saw an advertisement for the "DeLonghi" (800 watt / 7 quart / $400<< DeLonghi bought the mixer division of Kenwood. I have no idea if they have changed anything other than the name. I have the Kenwood 7QT and I love it! KyleW --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v102.n042.13 --------------- From: Barbara Ross Subject: Weighing to bake Date: Sun, 15 Sep 2002 13:34:19 -0400 I would LOVE to bake bread by weighing ingredients as the few times I have, it's worked out great and it's much easier. The scale I have has a top large enough for a bowl. You put the item in til the weight, hit the button and it's back to zero and add the other item. No cups or spoons to clean up. And the end result is much better. Just one problem: most recipes come in cups, not ounces or grams, so how do we weigh when the recipe says to measure??? Barb Ross --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v102.n042.14 --------------- From: "Don Bischoff" Subject: Re: From ice cubes to preheating oven Date: Sun, 15 Sep 2002 14:08:09 -0500 Hi Richard, You asked, "Does anyone heat their oven to 50F/10C (plus or minus) above the baking temperature prior to putting the bread in the oven, spritzing, etc. and then immediately lowering the heat to the normal baking temperature?" Yes as a matter of fact, I do and the reason is exactly as you guessed, when you open the oven door to put your loaves in it lets a lot of the heat escape, so preheating to about 50 degrees over allows you to have your oven at about baking temp when the door is once again closed. It's important to remember that in a brick oven most of the heat is stored in the brick itself. In engineering terms that's known as a heat sink. The brick has great thermal mass giving it good heat retention capability. Opening the door on a brick oven therefore has little effect on baking temp. The home oven, however, has very little thermal mass and you are mainly baking with hot air. Each time the oven door is opened a lot of the hot air is replaced by cold air and after it is closed again that air must heated back up to baking temp. Hope this helps and... Happy Baking!!! Don --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v102.n042.15 --------------- From: "Don Bischoff" Subject: Re: yeast too much!! - alternatives?? Date: Sun, 15 Sep 2002 14:52:48 -0500 Hi Barb, You asked about the KA versus Bosch Universal mixers. I have a Bosch Concept 7 not the Universal but they are quite similar in operation. I can say without reservation and from personal experience that the Bosch will out perform the KA hands down. It'll easily handle small two loaf batches as well as large batches of four or five loaves. I've made white, whole wheat, rye and everything in between. I've never been able to strain the machine even the slightest bit and my bread quality made a step change for the better after I started using it. It's predecessor, a KA on the other hand has stripped its little guts out twice while using it totally within the guidelines of the manufacturer for kneading dough. The KA is a fine mixer for cake batter, cookies and other light duty jobs and we still use it for that. For bread dough however, get a heavy duty machine, you'll never regret it. And, speaking of heavy duty, you might also want to look into the Magic Mill DLX. I understand that it is a fine piece of equipment as well. If you do decide to buy the Bosch and have any questions about it's operation, please don't hesitate to drop an e-mail. I'd be glad to help in any way possible. Good luck with your search and... Happy Baking!!! Don --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v102.n042.16 --------------- From: Alexander/Karen Subject: Re: Preheating hotter Date: Sun, 15 Sep 2002 22:00:00 -0400 >Does anyone heat their oven to 50F/10C (plus or minus) above the baking >temperature prior to putting the bread in the oven, spritzing, etc. and >then immediately lowering the heat to the normal baking temperature? Yes, I do that most of the time. I think Peter Reinhart mentions that method in his Breadbaker's Apprentice book too. That's where I first read about it and it makes perfect sense. I have found that the oven tends to cool down when putting the bread in. Over time I have been baking at higher temps anyway, started out at 400, then 450 and now have been wondering what would happen if I did keep it on 500 for the first 10 minutes or so. Haven't tried the 500 approach yet, but might do that soon. Karen ----------- Karen, mom to Cees, Tim, Tara, Jane, Kate and Erik Our Homepage http://www.plomp.com/homepage.html Birth stories!!! (add yours) http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/7269/ --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v102.n042.17 --------------- From: Sandy Subject: re:mixers Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2002 10:37:48 -0400 CJC and Barb, When looking for a new mixer, I have had a Kitchen Aid for about 10 years that I love but wanted something with a larger capacity because it would only knead recipes with 5-6 cups of flour, I compared the Bosch and the Magic Mill. Magic Mill had a 450 watt motor and costs approximately $450. The Bosch Universal has a 700 watt motor for approximately $300. I asked and asked but could not find anyone to explain this difference to me. No one could say, get the Magic Mill because......... so I bought the Bosch. I've had it for about 6 months and love it. So CJC, I would suggest you at least look at this machine. And Barb, I don't know what the capacity of the Compact is, the Universal holds 12 pounds but I never make more than 2 loaves at a time. My reasoning was that I thought that it was worth the approximately $100 difference for the 700 watt vs. the 450 watt motor in the Compact. My thinking was that the stronger motor would have less stress and would therefore last longer. This may not be true, but it made sense to me. Good luck in your decisions! Sandy in Maryland Anyway, I've almost stopped using my Zo, and have started using the Kitchen Aid. I was reading with interest the thread on the Magic Mill, and was=20 almost ready to buy one (450 watt / 8 quart / $450) because of what=20 everyone said about the kneading action. Then, I saw an advertisement for the "DeLonghi" (800 watt / 7 quart / $400=20 w/ Blender attachment). It says it will operate 12 different attachments, like a pasta maker, juicer, etc., which would sure help me get rid of a lot of appliances. BUT - my main concern is the kneading. Does anyone have any input on this mixer? TIA CJC I want to get something for us that can do a couple of loaves a week - that is why I looked at the Kitchen Aid and Compact. Is the Universal too much=20 for what I need? All thoughts/comments (good and bad) would be much appreciated. Thanks in advance. Barb --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v102.n042.18 --------------- From: "Jeanette or Norbert Jacobs" Subject: Searching for roll recipe Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2002 23:01:51 -0500 This was a new one on me... My husband and I recently visited a fascinating retreat called the Homestead Heritage Farm that is located a few miles northwest of Waco, Texas. The "farm" appeared to be run by a large group of people who are perhaps Mennonites or Anabaptists...similar to what the general public might correlate with our Amish friends. Their facility had large, hand-hewn barns where they taught pottery, furniture making, ironwork, etc. And in their gift shop, they offered for sale their wares of homespun dresses, Mustang Grape jelly, goat-milk soaps, stained glass, and the like. But I was especially intrigued by their restaurant. In their deli, they made wonderful homemade breads, sandwiches, and soups from their own stone-ground flours and cornmeal. Each was spectacular! When I double-backed there before we left, I was determined to have one of their sweet rolls that were stacked in their display case. I grabbed (yes, I paid for it!) the last roll they had that was called a "Bahgi". (Not sure on the spelling; maybe it was Bahji, or something similar to that.) Anyway, this roll was such a surprise because although it looked like a sweet roll...almost like what we call a "kolache"....it was not sweet, but was savory. The wheat dough (not white) was rolled into a circle, and the "filling" on the top was a cream cheese base, but it had fresh grated onion in it, and I think I tasted a little bacon in there somewhere. If anyone knows of a similar recipe for this little jewel, please post it to the list. They were wonderful! Now I know why it was out-selling all the other flavors in the case! By the way, for more info on this wonderful Homestead farm, they have a web-site: http://www.homesteadheritage.com It has some great pictures of the place! If you, too, would like to visit, I can recommend a really good Bed & Breakfast that we stayed in...just holler back. Thanks, Jeanette in South Texas --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v102.n042.19 --------------- From: Jack Elliott Subject: Quick bread Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2002 21:25:07 -0400 On occasion I see quick bread recipes posted. It is quite obvious most are into yeast breads however, some may wish to try this quick bread. I'm sure you will find the product different but with a pretty good taste. This recipe was given to me by a neighbor who received it from a retired collage professor. Maybe we should name it "The Professors Bread". Chocolate Cornbread In a large bowl combine: 1 1/2 cups cornmeal 1/2 teaspoon baking soda 1/2 cup all-purpose flour 1/4 cup sugar 1/4 cup cocoa 3 or 4 ounce package Jello instant pudding (chocolate is best, other flavor OK) Combine all of the above and mix well. In another bowl beat: 2 eggs 3/4 cup apple sauce 1 1/2 cup buttermilk 1 teaspoon vanilla extract Beat well then add to the dry mixture and mix until blended. Add 3/4 cup chocolate bits and 1/2 cup nuts, I prefer pecan pieces. Mix well. Bake in a greased and floured 8-inch X 8-inch Pyrex pan in a preheated 375 degree F oven for 30 minutes. Allow to cool in pan before slicing as one would Brownies. Hope you like this product, give it a try! Jack in Roanoke --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v102.n042.20 --------------- From: Okie Subject: sustaining bread crust crispness Date: Wed, 18 Sep 2002 08:19:43 -0400 To the many, many people who responded to my "how to keep bread crust crisp" query - Thank You! The subject obviously touched a nerve in many kitchens across the land. Here's a noteworthy followup on the subject. E-mail friend and resident-expert baking guru John Wright (on the "other side of the pond," in Yorkshire, England) delivered perfectly-baked insight: "If you want to preserve [overnight] the glory of a thin crust, putting it in a Ziploc bag or any other hermetically sealed container is NOT the way to go. The bread may seem "crisp and dry" but just-cooled bread still contains a considerable amount of moisture, hence old-wifely injunctions about not keeping bread and crackers in the same container. Compared to the very low moisture content of a cracker, a just-cooled loaf is wet. "The moisture is mainly [already] in the interior of the loaf and the crust softens at least as much from interior water content migrating to the dryer crust [surface]. What you need is to slow down the moisture loss to maintain crumb freshness... while wicking and evaporating any water that does make it to the crust. Best way I've found to do this for overnight keeping is to wrap the loaf in 2 layers of kitchen paper or a clean, dry towel. "It doesn't keep the full glory of a perfect crust, nothing can, bread at its absolute peak of freshness being a pleasure only bakers and their guest can know, but it's as good a method as I've found." John's countertop insight is accurate. It was a case of "I had my nose too close to the grindstone" to see the obvious. The prime culprit is the moisture - already within - the seemingly well-baked loaf that causes the next-day crust softness. A reheat in the oven... to dry the now-damp crust, appears as the only solution to restore a crisp crust. The paper or towel wrap idea (as several people suggested), may work in other climates but not here in Florida where normal humidity levels are higher (even within air-conditioned homes). Given my Florida location, the best bread-storage solution I've found is "the freezer" - a well-cooled loaf placed in a heavy Ziploc bag. The next day (or weeks later), thaw the bread for a few hours and place it (the bare loaf) in the oven for about 10-15 minutes. I use a cold-start oven set at a token 180F degrees. (Along with the bread I typically insert dinner plates, using the opportunity to pre-warm plates). This brief reheat restores about 80% of the fresh-bread experience... about the best we can apparently expect. The underlying dilemma: Once we taste and experience fresh baked bread - there is no alternative. And it is a perfectly good reason why we bakers keep baking! --------------- END bread-bakers.v102.n042 --------------- -------------- BEGIN bread-bakers.v102.n043 -------------- 001 - "melissa milos" Subject: flat soft bread for fahitas and tacos Date: Wed, 18 Sep 2002 12:31:05 -0400 I have been baking bread for at least 18 years now and my reprituar and knowledge are above the normal publics, but certainly not above the working knowledge of the contributers of this sight. I do much and almost all of the bread and pasta preparation for my family as well as the baked goods. I live in canada so ordering from King Aurthur is not finacially viable. Other places of ordering preferably canadian would be a god sent. I have had to purchace my soft taco shells because of the time consumtion of rolling them and as well my mini pizza shells. The type I like arelike the ones used for wraps at kfc or wendy's if anyone would share their recipe with me you would further save my family food budget and then a could buy an attachment for my magicmill which I love. Further note I discovered baking by wieght 4 years ago and those who say it is the consisrancy for baking are absolutly right in most of europe it has been a standard for many generations. My german bread books all give measurements in weight. --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v102.n043.2 --------------- From: "Steven Leof" Subject: Weighing liquids, amount of protein and amount of yeast Date: Thu, 19 Sep 2002 10:59:59 +0100 I recently subscribed to the Bread-Bakers list which has been helpful. Not knowing anyone who bakes seriously and relying only on books and common sense I appreciate access to the forum for questions and ideas. Following the recent thread about using scales coincidently I have been struggling to convert my bread recipes from avoirdupois to the metric system. Weighing dry ingredients seems straightforward (rightly or wrongly I assume that 1 cup of flour is equal to 8 ounces or 228 grams). However converting liquid measures from teaspoons, tablespoons and cups to grams has left me scratching my head. Weighing a cup of water isn't a problem for my trusty old-fashioned English Weylux Queen scale. But what is the weight I should assume correct for a cup of water? Does the weight of water vary in a colder or a warmer room? I have not seen a conversion table anywhere. When substituting milk, buttermilk, olive oil and other liquids in recipes should I assume that all liquids weigh the same? Recipes with percentages are much easier to replicate time and again and to modify than traditional recipes; even the new wave of bread books fall down when it comes to liquids.... Quite separate from the above I tend to use a Poolish for most of my breads. What is the prevailing opinion for the optimal amount of protein in flour for artisan bread? Is the difference between 11.8%, 12.5% and 13.2% in the end product discernable? I have been told that doughs that are retarded are fine with flour at the lower end of the range and that breads that are not retarded are better with flour at the higher end of the range. Is this correct? One final question today if I may. I find it easier to fit bread-making into my schedule when retarding dough than when proofing it at room temperature. I usually use a total of 2% yeast in my recipes (benchmarked against the flour). Should I reduce the amount I use for doughs that are retarded? If so by how much? Steven Leof --------------- END bread-bakers.v102.n043 --------------- Copyright (c) 1996-2002 Regina Dwork and Jeffrey Dwork All Rights Reserved