Date: Sat, 14 Sep 2002 17:30:34 -0600 (MDT) -------------- BEGIN bread-bakers.v102.n041 -------------- 001 - "Elizabeth" Subject: Re: bread storage Date: Sat, 7 Sep 2002 12:00:56 -0400 You know, Okie, I haven't found a good solution to this, either, though I've seen a cloth-type bag with a zip-lock liner for sale, don't know if it works (wouldn't that just be the same as a zip-lock bag? ;P). I've tried a bread box, can't say that works too well. There are cellophane bags with tiny pores in them [?] that I've tried, don't work too well. I've tried keeping it in the fridge or freezer, but then it gets that "fridge or thawed taste/smell" which is yucko. I have heard you can place a stalk of celery in with the bread, but haven't tried that. I have read that by adding an enzyme called maltogenic amylase to the flour, bread stays fresher longer. Didn't know anything about that substance, so didn't do that. Anyhow, everything just got stale and/or soggy, so...know what I do now? Whatever is left after a couple days gets toasted, made into French toast, bread crumbs, croutons, tossed in soup, salad, bread pudding, etc. I generally bake two large ww loaves at once, with flaxseed and oat bran and wheat germ and sunflower seeds in them. I use dough enhancer and malt and vital gluten. --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v102.n041.2 --------------- From: "James Thompson" Subject: Breadman Woes Date: Sat, 7 Sep 2002 12:22:47 -0400 This is a response to Tracy. I don't have a breadman bread machine, but I had a similar problem with my Zojirushi. I called coustomer service. They ask me if it's still under warranty? Yes it is, so I sent to the factory. The problem was the unit was it's not heating up for the correct rise temperature. You may want to call customer service for your Breadman and check the rising temperature. Laura --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v102.n041.3 --------------- From: "Richard L Walker" Subject: From ice cubes to preheating oven Date: Sat, 7 Sep 2002 11:46:34 -0500 Seems the ice cube idea is a no-go. Alternative plan B - preheating the oven: Does anyone heat their oven to 50F/10C (plus or minus) above the baking temperature prior to putting the bread in the oven, spritzing, etc. and then immediately lowering the heat to the normal baking temperature? Seems like the heat loss might bring the oven to the right baking temperature so that the dough would be in the oven at the right temperature the entire time -- and by resetting the oven from the higher temperature to the baking temperature immediately, the oven would tend to stay there. "Richard L Walker" Pensacola, FL 32504-7726 USA --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v102.n041.4 --------------- From: "Leigh Davisson" Subject: RE: bread storage Date: Sat, 7 Sep 2002 10:28:06 -0700 > Anyone have a "secret method" for storing bread, to retain crust crispness? I just store it cut side down on my kitchen counter. Our humidity is generally lower than yours and it's never exactly the way it was straight out of the oven, but my bread still has a nice crust on it the next day. Leigh --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v102.n041.5 --------------- From: Andie Paysinger Subject: refreshing crusts. Date: Sat, 07 Sep 2002 11:03:43 -0700 Re: Crisp crusts. I don't think there is any way to keep a crust crisp if you want the interior of the bread to remain soft. This is a very, very old trick used by bakers as well as home bakers. Simply put the loaf, or unsliced portion of same in a ziplock bag. When you want to refresh the loaf simply heat your oven to 375. Briefly run cold water over the crust of the loaf, direct from the tap, (avoiding the cut surface as much as possible but a little water will not hurt) then immediately place the loaf directly on the rack in the oven and set your timer for 15 to 20 minutes, depending on the size of the loaf. A regular "Italian" style loaf for 15, a large round boule for 18 to 20 minutes. You will find the crust is crisp, the interior is just as it should be. Cut and serve while still warm. The bread will stale more rapidly when treated like this but it is fine if you are going to use up the loaf immediately. Andie Paysinger & the PENDRAGON Basenjis, Teafer ,Singer & Player asenji@earthlink.net So. Calif. USA "In the face of adversity, be patient, in the face of a basenji, be prudent, be canny, be on your guard!" http://home.earthlink.net/~asenji/ --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v102.n041.6 --------------- From: "Sonia Martinez" Subject: Pan de Huevos Date: Sat, 7 Sep 2002 09:06:55 -1000 There is a recipe, popular in Mexico for PAN DE HUEVOS used mainly for November 2nd or Dia de los Muertos (day of the dead). The Mexicans also have another egg bread called Pan Dulce. I think I posted the Cuban version of Pan Dulce here sometime ago along with the Pan Cubano recipe. I use this recipe for Halloween. PAN DE HUEVOS 1 1/2 cups of flour 1/2 cup of sugar 1 teaspoon of salt 1 tablespoon of anise seed (optional) 2 packets of dry yeast 1/2 cup of milk 1/2 cup of water 1/2 cup of butter 4 eggs from 3 - 4 1/2 cups of flour Mix all dry ingredients together except the 3 - 4 1/2 cups of flour. In a small pan, heat the milk, the water, and the butter. Add the liquid mixture to the dry mixture. Beat well. Mix in the eggs and 1 1/2 cups of flour. Beat well. Put in the rest of the flour, little by little. Knead the mixture on a floured board for 9 - 10 minutes. Put the dough in a greased bowl and allow it to rise until it has doubled in size (about an hour and a half at sea level). Punch the dough down and reshape it with some "bone" shapes on top to decorate it. (bone shapes if to be used Nov 2nd or here on Halloween)(*) Let it rise another hour. Bake at 350 degrees F (175 degrees C) for about 40 minutes. After baking, sprinkle it with confectioner's sugar and colored sugar. (*)To Maintain the shape during the baking process, make the bones (or any other dough decorations) ahead and freeze. Place on top of the bread and glue on with water just before placing bread in oven. Do the customary egg wash. Sonia --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v102.n041.7 --------------- From: "Louise Hyson" Subject: Re: bread storage Date: Sat, 7 Sep 2002 15:17:17 -0400 Ed Okie, have you tried aluminum foil or a paper bag? LaBrea Bread Bakery recommends keeping their bread in the original bag and freshening in the oven the next day or two. Louise --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v102.n041.8 --------------- From: Nifcon@aol.com Subject: Ed - Weight and Metric Date: Sat, 7 Sep 2002 17:22:13 EDT Way to go Ed! I weigh everything I put in my bread and don't know how anyone can stand the totally unnecessary and laborious calculation involved in applying bakers' percentage formulae (the best and most compact methoxd of describing a bread's ingredients) to pounds, ounces and all the rest of the imperial stew of measures derived from some king's left foot shoe size. Actually the units aren't as stupid as the relationships between them. And as for volume measurement, words fail me! All that said I think you'll agree that all ANY sytem of measurement can give you is a good starting point. It's rare that a batch of bread mixes to exactly the required consistency without some small adjustment but using metric weights gets you closer than any other measuring method. John --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v102.n041.9 --------------- From: "Rosanne Cleveland-King" Subject: Fix or buy new? Date: Sat, 7 Sep 2002 15:16:09 -0700 About seven years ago I bought a Zojirushi and used it a lot. It has been dead for a while now. Shall I dump it and buy another or just have it fixed. If I remember it was quite expensive at the time. I am open to suggestions. At one time I baked bread twice a week, and it was so wonderful, but I believe I am beyond that now. Once in a while would be fine, but...... Thank you for any suggestions...... Rosanne --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v102.n041.10 --------------- From: "Sheila Lanthier" Subject: Re: Keeping the crust crisp Date: Sat, 7 Sep 2002 22:03:09 -0400 Re: Keeping the crust crisp on French bread. The only way I've ever managed to keep leftover baguettes fresh was to wrap them in foil and freeze them. Then put the frozen loaves into a 350 F. oven, unwrapped, for about 15-20 minutes, and they'll be as good as fresh-baked. Never, never let your bread come in contact with plastic bags, as plastic kills crusts! Hope this is of some help. Paddy Lanthier. --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v102.n041.11 --------------- From: "herblady" Subject: Re: machine baking liquid Date: Sat, 7 Sep 2002 21:22:40 -0700 Our weather in Hoosierland has been at best iffy. Weather does play a great part in machine baking. Hot, humid weather calls for less liquid in the machine. And we've had alot of that lately. No comments from our "purist" out there, please. You know who you are, the one from the south. LOL To each his or her own as to baking methods, the main thing is to keep on baking!!! gram --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v102.n041.12 --------------- From: "Anita" Subject: Re: bread storage Date: Sat, 7 Sep 2002 20:14:58 -0700 Ed Okie asked: "Anyone have a "secret method" for storing bread, to retain crust crispness?" We live in No. California foothills where the air is probably drier, but I have wrapped my leftover bread in a paper bag for years, and the crust will stay harder, longer. There is also a cellophane bag that has tiny holes throughout, that some french breads in our area come packaged in and they seem to do about the same thing. Personally, I wait until the next morning and freeze anything that we are not going to eat that day. The bread coming out of the freezer should be warmed a bit (not long) before consuming. Guess you have to give up one thing to gain another. Anita Flanigan --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v102.n041.13 --------------- From: "." Subject: Mixer Recommendations? Date: Sat, 07 Sep 2002 22:21:42 -0700 Hi all: Really appreciate all the information contained in this list - am baking bread almost all the time now. I love the artisan, rye, and grain breads. I swear I could almost live on bread alone! Problem is though - my husband just wants the bland Wonder Bread!! Anyway, I've almost stopped using my Zo, and have started using the Kitchen Aid. I was reading with interest the thread on the Magic Mill, and was almost ready to buy one (450 watt / 8 quart / $450) because of what everyone said about the kneading action. Then, I saw an advertisement for the "DeLonghi" (800 watt / 7 quart / $400 w/ Blender attachment). It says it will operate 12 different attachments, like a pasta maker, juicer, etc., which would sure help me get rid of a lot of appliances. BUT - my main concern is the kneading. Does anyone have any input on this mixer? TIA CJC --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v102.n041.14 --------------- From: "Berti Steegs" Subject: re: bread storage/ crisp crust Date: Sun, 8 Sep 2002 07:42:36 +0200 Ed wrote: << Zip-lock bag logic: the bread at that point (last night) was crisp and dry... keeping it within the air-tight plastic bag prevents room humidity from going back into the bread (I live in Florida, the home well air conditioned, humidity controlled at 56%). But the zip-lock bag doesn't work. No next-day crispness. Even 10 hours later. Nada. Zero. Zip. >> Well I have had the same problem with plastic bags on other types of bread. I do not know if you let the bread cool FULLY. Plus, even when you do that, I do not recommend plastic bags because they can make the crust go soft. I recommend you try to get paper bags/ greaseproof paper bags like prof bakers use. Works for me (living in the Netherlands with no airco). Success! Greetings Berti --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v102.n041.15 --------------- From: Bill Stanford Subject: Re: using a scale Date: Sun, 8 Sep 2002 22:26:01 +1000 Hi all... Ed Okie's advice here is worth breaking mailing list good form for, and putting up again, with the added comment: he's right! Thirty odd years ago, when I had my first bout with bread baking, there were a lot of things I had to learn - bread flour as against plain flour, bread improver as against no improver, the use of gluten with rye, the importance of good stone ground wholemeal, overnight rises... But even when armed with quite a bit of knowledge and experience, I was never satisfied with my breads. And I couldn't seem to learn from my mistakes, as nothing ever repeated. Now though in my 2nd incarnation as a baker, I can make predictably good loaves, day in day out. And the difference is: a good set of metric scales! Along with this, the concept of a 750gm loaf, with about 300ml(grams) of water and 450gm of flour. With many variations around this norm; but variations with predictable outcomes. It sounds altogether too simple, but Ed's right! Bill stanfords@optusnet.com.au >My advice: Those with a moderate interest in baking, make the scale a >must-buy item. Ironically, scales are rarely mentioned in baking >discussions. Yes, you absolutely can bake without a scale. But a scale >pays two big dividends: > >1. Simplifies your baking life, >2. Makes you a better baker. > >Accuracy (repeatability in particular) improves greatly. A second bonus: >measuring cups are eliminated- less things to clean or keep track of. One >set of 1/8-to-1 tea measuring spoons (for items too small to weigh - salt, >yeast, etc.) is the only other tool needed. > >An equally strong recommendation: change to the metric system - use grams. >The ounces, pounds and measuring-cup system is a nightmare and >error-prone. Diane's hydration advice illustrates the pounds-ounces >stumbling block - a math-conversion nightmare. It becomes worse when trying >to increase or decrease (in size) a given recipe. When using grams, all >number-units stay in grams. > >In Diane's example: one pound equals 454 grams of flour. > >70% (water required) of 454 is 318 grams. > >In the mixing bowl (the bowl placed directly on the scale), add 454 grams >of flour, reset the scale to zero, then pour in 318 grams of >water. Measuring cups are not used. None. > >Scales and the metric system provide another advantage in liquid >measurement: 1 milli-liter (ml) of water equals 1 gram of weight. There's >no need to use a graduated cup (many are inaccurate) to measure say, 300 ml >of water... simply pour 300 grams (weight) into the mixing bowl on the scale. > >In comparison: bending down trying to view the 11-ounce line on a measuring >cup, first figure out which column (of many) is in ounces, also remember >which side of the liquid's edge is the correct point of measure, and is the >cup setting on a level counter? > >Another advantage of scales: If you wish to make a slight adjustment, say >66% hydration (a stiffer dough) instead of 70% (which is wetter) ...the >water added (by weight) is 300 grams (66% of 454), the flour portion >remains 454 grams. > >I suspect we often get too wrapped up in discussions about flours, mixers, >knives, yeast, etc. Though each has its place, buying a scale provides the >best value by far. Once you own one you'll wonder how life is possible >without it! --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v102.n041.16 --------------- From: "Max Prola" Subject: Oven temperature drop Date: Sun, 8 Sep 2002 18:04:48 +0100 Some concern has been expressed that opening the oven door to spritz the interior, or to deposit some ice cubes in it, will lower the oven temperature and therefore should be avoided. The steel oven walls and the large volume of air in the oven retain a great deal of heat so it isnt likely that the few seconds needed would seriously affect the oven temperature. If the oven is gas fired, you might be able to check this out: on some ovens you can hear the thermostatically controlled burner re-igniting itself when the temperature drops. If you hear it kick in, then the temperature has dropped a bit. But does it matter? Max Prola Cheshire, England --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v102.n041.17 --------------- From: "Ben McGehee" Subject: Re: bread storage Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2002 04:52:55 -0400 Okie writes: >Anyone have a "secret method" for storing bread, to retain crust >crispness? First, don't expect to have the just out of the oven crust for more than a few hours. It is impossible to achieve without affecting other qualities of the bread, as you mentioned. Second, a zip-loc bag is one of the worst things you could use. The softness of the crust actually comes from the moisture in the bread, not the humidity, so putting it in something that allows it to breathe, such as a paper bag, is the best option. Try that and see if it turns out better. Ben McGehee --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v102.n041.18 --------------- From: "Barb Almond" Subject: yeast too much!! - alternatives?? Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2002 16:05:33 -0700 I have been making bread with a Black & Decker bread machine. I find that there is too much yeast (3 tsp. for 3 cups of flour) for me. I am looking for a mixer and have searched your archives. There are three adults in my family. What would be a good machine for us. I'm looking at the Kitchen Aid, Bosch Compact or Bosch Universal. Is the Kitchen Aid and Bosch Compact comparable in watts and how much flour they can handle? I know the Universal can do big amounts of bread; can it do cakes, cookies,etc...? I want to get something for us that can do a couple of loaves a week - that is why I looked at the Kitchen Aid and Compact. Is the Universal too much for what I need? All thoughts/comments (good and bad) would be much appreciated. Thanks in advance. Barb traco1@hotmail.com --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v102.n041.19 --------------- From: "Herman Reinhart" Subject: Unsalted butter Date: Thu, 12 Sep 2002 11:38:36 -0700 Why do some recipes call for unsalted butter then add salt? Is there a reason or is this just left over from the time people churned the milk to get butter? Herman Reinhart reinhart@bigvalley.net --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v102.n041.20 --------------- From: Reggie Dwork Subject: Betsy Oppenneer's teaching schedule Date: Thu, 12 Sep 2002 11:51:47 -0700 Here is the latest teaching schedule for Betsy Oppenneer. What a busy lady. If any of your are in the area and are able to attend one (or more) of her classes please do so. I am sure you will learn and enjoy the event. September 16 - Entertaining Breads at Western Reserve School of Cooking, Hudson, OH, 330-650-1665 September 18 - How to Conquer Your Bread-Baking Fears at Cook'sWares, Cincinnati, OH, 513-489-6400 September 19 - Entertaining Breads at Cook'sWares, Springboro, OH - new store, check information for telephone number September 22 - Entertaining Breads at Columbus State Culinary Academy - Columbus, OH, 614-287-5126 September 23 - How to Conquer Your Bread-Baking Fears at Betty Ann's Kitchen Classes, West Worthington, OH, 614-846-6518 September 24 - Holiday Breads at Betty Ann's Kitchen Classes, West Worthington, OH, 614-846-6518 October 8 - How to Conquer Your Bread-Baking Fears at Central Markets Cooking School, 5750 East Lovers Lane, Dallas, TX, 75206, 6:30 p.m., new store, check information for telephone number October 9 - How to Conquer Your Bread-Baking Fears at Central Markets Cooking School, 320 Coit Road, Plano, TX 75075, 10 a.m., 469-241-9339 October 9 - How to Conquer Your Bread-Baking Fears at Central Markets Cooking School, 4651 West Freeway, Fort Worth, TX 76107, 6:30 p.m., 817-377-9005 October 10 - How to Conquer Your Bread-Baking Fears at Central Markets Cooking School, 4001 North Lamar, Austin, TX 78756, 6:30 p.m., 512-206-1036 October 11 - How to Conquer Your Bread-Baking Fears at Central Markets Cooking School, 4821 Broadway, San Antonio, TX 78209, 11 a.m., 210-368-8618 October 12 - How to Conquer Your Bread-Baking Fears at Central Markets Cooking School, 3815 Westheimer (at Weslayan), Houston, TX 77027, 10 a.m., 713-993-9860 October 29 Holiday Breads, Classic Gourmet, 3864 Hillsboro Pike, Nashville, TN, 37215, 615-383-8700 November 11 - Holiday Breads at the Viking Culinary Arts Center, One Town Center, Bryn Mawr (Philadelphia), PA, new store, check information for telephone number November 18 - Holiday Breads at the Viking Culinary Arts Center, Brookwood Place on Peachtree, Atlanta, GA, new store, check information for telephone number --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v102.n041.21 --------------- From: "Kilpatrick, Kara E" Subject: Help with getting manuals Date: Tue, 3 Sep 2002 16:23:08 -0500 i recently bought a Magic Chef Breadmaker Model # CBM-310(310) second-hand and have no operating instructions for it. Do you know where i can get instructions for this model of breadmaker? i have tried calling Maytag (the parent company), but they don't know how to get one. Thank you for your help, Kara Kilpatrick [[ Editor's note: Google leads to this from http://www.about-bread.net/ Franklin Magic Chef 501-273-6352 (WalMart is the exclusive distributor/service for these machines) and this quote from Nov 2001 _Consumer Reports_ found on http://www.consumersearch.com Consumer Reports adds that most machines are made by Salton, which manufactures Breadman, Kenmore, Toastmaster, Welbilt and Magic Chef machines. but there is nothing on Salton's web site about it. Anyone have more/better information? Jeff ]] --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v102.n041.22 --------------- From: judiec@comcast.net Subject: Pump sprays Date: Sat, 07 Sep 2002 08:40:27 -0400 'm with Bob... it's not a good baking day unless I can hear those loaves singing to me! For John and the yeast discussion: I, too agree that the differences among MOST yeasts are negligible, but... numerous experiments that I have done have proven, to my satisfaction at least, that Rapid Rise yeast will not produce as flavorful a loaf as the instant yeast I normally use. I tend to use less yeast than most recipes require in order to slow down the rise a bit and increase the flavor. I also find the convenience of instant (no need to dissolve) more than enough reason to keep it as my yeast of choice. Judie --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v102.n041.23 --------------- From: RosesCakeBible@aol.com Subject: Re: scales Date: Sat, 7 Sep 2002 10:48:37 EDT Reply to Ed Okie re scales: Thank you for your brilliant treatise on the value of scales. I have found that it is not heat, humidity, or type of water that makes the difference in repeatability--it's the consistency of amounts that you get only by weighing (even the water). I should say especially the water because I have not found 2 liquid measuring cups that measure the same! Incidentally, I once wrote an article for a syndicated column pleading the case for scales. I entitled it "Weigh to Bake!" If interested, I'll be glad to forward it to the list or simply e-mail it to you. [[ Editor's note: I already asked Rose to send it to the list - Reggie ]] I'd also llike to thank the Tarheel Baker for his wonderful common-sense approach on just about everything! And all of you--you make my lonely process of editing the recipes for my bread book far less so! Rose Levy Beranbaum --------------- END bread-bakers.v102.n041 --------------- Copyright (c) 1996-2002 Regina Dwork and Jeffrey Dwork All Rights Reserved