Date: Mon, 2 Sep 2002 02:29:47 -0600 (MDT) -------------- BEGIN bread-bakers.v102.n038 -------------- 001 - Tarheel_Boy@webtv.net (Ta - The New and Improved Daily Bread List... 002 - NuttyBakerGirl - Diastatic malt powder in Canada 007 - "Richard L Walker" Subject: using and storing instant yeast Date: Sat, 24 Aug 2002 07:05:02 -0600 "I bought some yeast that I would like some tips using. I have always used the yeast that is in the little envelopes. This is Fleischmann's Instant Yeast and it is in a vaccuum sealed, 16 oz. brick package. Like I have seen some coffee packaged. Should I store it in the pantry before it is opened, since it was just on the shelf in the store? Should I refrigerate it once opened like it says or put it in the freezer like I've heard some of you talk about? (I'm not sure if you all were talking about this kind of yeast) And finally, how do I use this? Does it need to be proofed? How much do I use?" Once you bring instant yeast home, I would advise opening it and dumping the yaest into an air tight container and either storing it in the fridge or freezer (where ever you have room). It will last only a couple of months if stored in the pantry, but will last forever in the fridge or freezer. You use less instant yeast than active dry yeast in recipes and you don't proof it at all, you just mix it with the dry ingredients before adding the liquids. Whatever you do, you don't want to mix the yeast directly with salt or cold liquids; it will slow down the yeast and it could kill it. The envelopes of active dry yeast are 2 1/2 tsps. With the instant yeast you only use 2 tsps to replace the active dry yeast. --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v102.n038.3 --------------- From: Tarheel_Boy@webtv.net (Tarheel Boy) Subject: Re: Proofing yeast Date: Sat, 24 Aug 2002 10:29:06 -0400 (EDT) John Wright writes (I like that): Instant yeast, dried active yeast, fresh yeast they all work the same once they get going ( I know that's not strictly true but if I see another post from a fanatic who is convinced that the reason for his failures is the yeast rather than his sloppy technique I'll stop breathing) but dried active and fresh need reviving before you use them whereas "instant" or "ready mix" or "quick mix" or "quick" yeast has sufficient live cells to revive if it's mixed with the flour and that's the key to finding out which type of yeast you've got. Good on ya, John! Give those fanatics hell! One more thing on yeast and then I will shut up lest I be accused of being a fanatic (just kidding, John). Modern yeast manufacturers have developed their process so well that ninety-nine times out of a hundred, you don't have to proof active dry yeast anymore. I still use instant yeast because of the convenience and the fact that about 90% of the yeast cells are still alive as opposed to about 50% in active dry yeast. What shall we talk about next? Bob the Tarheel Baker --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v102.n038.4 --------------- From: Brown_D@pcfnotes1.wustl.edu Subject: Re: Hydration questions Date: Sat, 24 Aug 2002 10:59:28 -0500 Percent hydration is the amount of water expressed as a percentage of the weight of flour. If you were using one pound of flour, a 70% hydration dough would use 0.7 lb, or about 11 oz of water. Other ingredients may also be expressed similarly as a percentage of the flour weight, where the weight of flour is taken to be 100%. Slacker dough is softer, with slower recoil when kneaded, and usually is wetter (but could also, in some situations, be made with less gluten). Diane Brown --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v102.n038.5 --------------- From: "Max Prola" Subject: Spray bottles Date: Sat, 24 Aug 2002 15:23:39 +0100 Several people have expressed doubts about the value of a pump spray. I have used mine for a couple of weeks and also haven't noticed any difference in the bread's structure. I was hoping that the spray might eliminate the hair-line cracks which appear on the crust as the bread cools, but it didnt help much. Any ideas about eliminating these cracks? Doesn't seem to have anything to do with the bread's hydration, as it happens not only with dense breads, but also even with 75 - 80% hydration. Best wishes, Max Prola The spray came in very handy in baking taralli, an Italian savoury biscuit. It gives them a very nice shiny surface and a golden colour. --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v102.n038.6 --------------- From: Eric Fung Subject: Diastatic malt powder in Canada Date: Sat, 24 Aug 2002 13:00:12 -0400 I recently began baking breads from the formulas in The Bread Baker's Apprentice. Most of them have turned out very successfully! The batch of bagels I made last week turned out alright, but didn't brown or taste like the Montreal-style ones that I like. I would like to try using diastatic malt powder as Reinhart suggests, but am having a hard time finding it. I live in the Toronto, Ontario area. Does anyone know of a store that sells it? Or a mail-order source in Canada? --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v102.n038.7 --------------- From: "Richard L Walker" Subject: Spritzing Date: Sat, 24 Aug 2002 12:52:57 -0500 I am wondering if anyone has tried tossing 1 or 2 ice cubes into the oven instead of placing a pan of water in the oven or trying to open the door wide enough to spray. Seems like you would only have to crack the oven door a bit (for a very short time) to get an ice cube or two in there. I read about somebody trying this, but have not tried it myself. "Richard L Walker" Pensacola, FL 32504-7726 USA --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v102.n038.8 --------------- From: "Chris Dalrymple" Subject: Real bagel recipes Date: Sat, 24 Aug 2002 13:13:09 -0500 > From: "Richard L Walker" Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2002 12:27:34 -0500 > I'm trying to learn how to make bagels Richard-there are some recipes for "real" bagels to be found in the archives. I haven't tried any yet, so can't vouch for them. My favorite recipe, so far, for real bagels is Les Bagels de Jo Goldenberg from Bernard Clayton's "New Complete Book of Breads". (How could this bagel be anything but spectacular-the baker is Jewish AND Parisian!) This recipe produces a bagel that is dense and chewy on the inside and crusty on the outside, just as a bagel should be. The day after baking, they become very rubbery, but this problem is solved by toasting them. --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v102.n038.9 --------------- From: "Chris Dalrymple" Subject: Yeast Date: Sat, 24 Aug 2002 13:13:50 -0500 I really hate to contradict other posters, but in the interests of accuracy, I feel that I must. A number of posts replying to a question on yeast stated that instant yeast and rapid rise yeast are the same. But according to King Arthur Flour, they are different creatures. Quoted below is their answer when asked the same question. Q: What is the difference between instant yeast, active dry yeast, and rapid rise yeast? A: Active dry yeast is what most people are used to seeing in supermarkets, commonly found in strips of three packets or in jars. Because of the way it is dried, active dry yeast contains a large percentage of dead yeast cells surrounding the live yeast cells. For that reason, active dry yeast must be hydrated -- immersed in warm water -- for at least a few minutes to release the live yeast cells from the dead ones. This process, referred to as "proofing the yeast," is essential for active dry yeast Bycontrast, instant yeast -- often called "instant dissolving yeast" -- is manufactured so that there are far fewer dead yeast cells. As a result, instant yeast becomes active the "instant" it contacts moisture. Rather than proofing it prior to use, simply mix instant yeast with all the other dry ingredients. Then, when liquid is added, the yeast will activate right away. Also, because there are fewer dead yeast cells in instant yeast, you need less instant yeast than active dry yeast to achieve the same effect. Some people like to proof their instant yeast anyway to assure themselves that the yeast is still fresh. Doing this causes no harm. Instant yeast and active dry yeast are created from different strains of yeast cells. Instant yeast does make the bread rise a bit faster than active dry. Instant yeast starts fast and works moderately. Active dry starts more slowly, works moderately fast, and eventually (after several hours) catches up to instant yeast. Both quit at about the same time. Unlike both active dry yeast and instant yeast, rapid rise yeast is a whole different strain of yeast altogether. If active dry and instant yeast were marathon runners, rapid rise yeast would be a sprinter. It gives bread a speedy initial rise, but dies out quickly. Avoid rapid rise yeast when you want to develop flavor in the bread through long rising times. --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v102.n038.10 --------------- From: Carolyn Subject: "filled bread"?? Date: Sun, 25 Aug 2002 17:11:32 -0400 Only one Wegmans grocery store's bake shop offers "filled bread", and only at lunch hour!! If Im not in the vacinity at the right time, and if I'm not at the front of the line, I don't get any!! So, turning to you, I'm wondering if anyone has a recipe for bread that has filling, thus: The loaf is a couple of inches longer than the bag, some 14 inches. It is a chewy bread, something like a chewy French bread. It seems that the filling is placed on the dough, and the dough rolled and sealed, brushed with egg white (?) and olive oil and sesame seeds sprinkled on. Then four slits are cut in the top, and it's baked. Some fillings are spinach and ricotta, veggie (onion, garlic, red and yellow peppers) and portabella mushrooms with a little onion and garlic. Each has a few hot peppers in the mix. I think I can duplicate the filling, but what sort of bread might be used?? Many thanks, Carolyn Schaffner in Buffalo, NY --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v102.n038.11 --------------- From: Nifcon@aol.com Subject: Biblical bread Date: Sat, 24 Aug 2002 17:21:44 EDT You probably know this already but just use a Concordance to find all the uses of the words bread, dough, leaven and any other baking term you care to use. John --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v102.n038.12 --------------- From: "Jazzbel" Subject: Buttermilk Honey Bread Date: Sun, 25 Aug 2002 11:39:26 -0400 I made the most beautiful loaves this morning with Beth Hensperger's recipe. For the finish, rather than using her egg glaze, I used heavy whipping cream, as I had a little bit left over in the fridge. The loaves were firm (Sometimes the buttermilk bread is a little crumbly) I did not have honey, so I used golden syrup instead. I doubled this and used the Magic Mill Mixer to make 4 loaves. Her recipe for the bread machine follows below. Formula for two loaves: 3/4 cup warm water 1 tablespoon instant yeast 1 1/2 cup buttermilk, room temperature 2 tablespoons unsalted butter, melted 3 tablespoons honey 1 tablespoon salt 6 to 6 1/4 cups all purpuse flour. Formula for a 1'2 loaf-bread machine: 1 cup plus 3 tablespoons warm water 1 1/4 teaspoon instant yeast 2 tablespoons unsalted butter, melted 3 tablespoons honey 1/3 cup buttermilk powder 1 teaspoon salt 5 teaspoons gluten 3 cups bread flour. Later, jazzbel --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v102.n038.13 --------------- From: ehgf@mindspring.com Subject: Constructing and teaching a bread baking class Date: Sat, 24 Aug 2002 16:39:08 +0800 Hi All, In response to Ben's request: "I have volunteered at my church to teach a Wednesday Night class on how to bake bread. I plan to introduce people to the baking process using a different recipe every week which highlights a different method or ingredients. I also plan to highlight biblical usage of bread. This may be slightly off-topic (if so, forgive me), but I was wondering if anyone had read any cookbooks (or regular books) which talked about bread in the Bible. I have read Biblical Garden Cooking (or something like that), but most of the rest of my ideas are just from my own study of the Bible. Anyone have suggestions? Or suggestions about anything else with the class? Thanks". I, too, volunteered to teach bread baking classes as a fundraiser for my congregation. In fact, the last class in the series of three on Challah ("The Ultimate Challah", Two Whole Wheat Challahs and Flavorful Challah) will be held tomorrow. There are many biblical or religious references to why certain challah ingredients are customary as well as the symbolism of the various shapes of challah. The practice of the "taking of the challah" in order to make it kosher is also an interesting process. Look up challah in your bread baking books. Take out some Jewish cookbooks from the library. There is also a book (can't remember the title, but someone on the list will know) about the history of bread. Look up challah or the history of bread on the internet and you will find much that will be of interest to you and your class. After two successful (beginners luck ;-) classes, I feel that I can pass along how I constructed them. It was a lot of work and I have a new found respect for all the great cooking teachers who have made it all look easy. For written material, I composed a general handout and a specific one for each class. The general handout contained the history, symbolism, customs and blessing associated with challah. I also included a bread "glossary" giving info on the primary ingredients, the usual stages and required techniques of bread making/baking. I also gave resources including recommended books and websites. The specific handouts contained the recipes we would use plus a "bonus" recipe such as a savory challah bread stuffing. For the classes themselves, my goal was to complete the class in 3 hours. I wanted students to see the dough and finished product in all its stages. I wanted them to be able to look, smell, taste and touch. To accomplish this, I had to run the class "out of order". I first baked the bread. This loaf (or loaves) was brought to class so students could see the finished product. After class, or when there was a lull, we tasted this loaf (or loaves). I prepared a dough the day before the class and kept it in the refrigerator. This dough was brought to room temp by the time I started the class. I shaped the dough for the students to see and then it was allowed to rise. I then started making the dough once again (#3 if you are counting) so the class could see how to mix and knead it. The first class had one dough done by hand. The second and third classes have two different doughs with one made in a mixer and one made in a bread machine. By the time these doughs were kneaded and ready to rise, the ones I had made the day before were ready to bake. The breads came out of the oven as the class was reaching the 3 hour mark. I took the last dough made (#3) home and played with it i.e. mini challahs, challah rolls with semi sweet chocolate middles, whole wheat challah herbed foccacia and white whole wheat pizza. What fun! I hope that these tips will help you and that I haven't bored anyone on the list. I love attending cooking classes, but have now experienced being student and teacher. Always learning, always wondering, always a "bread baker's apprentice", Ellen aka Gormay --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v102.n038.14 --------------- From: Nifcon@aol.com Subject: Hydration for Cathi Date: Sat, 24 Aug 2002 17:36:17 EDT Bread bakers use formulae in which the flour is the base ingredient at 100% and the other constituents are expressed as a percentage of the flour weight. A simple example. A lean dough made with 500 gm flour, 350 gm water, 10 gm salt and 5 gm yeast would give a formula Ingredient % Flour 100 Water - 350/500*100 = 70 Salt - 10/500*100 = 2 Yeast - 5/500*100 = 1 you can also express it as 70/2/1 the flour being assumed to be 100. Calculations of dough weight and ingredient quantities are simple using this notation, even simpler if you use metric. A slacker dough is indeed wetter John --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v102.n038.15 --------------- From: Howard Larson Subject: Re: Hydration questions Date: Sun, 25 Aug 2002 08:45:02 -0500 On Sat, 24 Aug 2002 00:02:25 -0600 (MDT), Cathi Boronkay wrote: > When one speaks of dough having a higher hydration, and it is put > in terms of a percentage (68-70% hydration), exactly what does that > mean? And when a dough is said to be slacker than normal, what does > that mean, wetter? > > cathi Hydration ratios are given as a percentage of the flour in the recipe. For example, 350 grams of water added to 500 grams of flour will result in 70 percent hydration. Slack is a relative term. Doughs with higher hydration ratios are said to be slack relative to those with lower hydration ratios. Howard Larson --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v102.n038.16 --------------- From: Tarheel_Boy@webtv.net (Tarheel Boy) Subject: It's a Dilly!!! Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2002 14:21:09 -0400 (EDT) Ever since I made the potato-rosemary bread in Peter Reinhart's "The Bread Baker's Apprentice," I've been fooling around with the recipe to make it into a dill bread. I think I've done it and I hope all y'all will try it and enjoy it. To begin with, you should know that when I emptied a jar of dill pickles a week ago, I saved the juice. Okay, here we go: Bob the Tarheel Baker's "It's a Dilly" Bread... Enough instant mashed potatoes to make 3-1/2 cups (you purists can use regular potatoes, but I guarantee you won't know the difference) 2 tablespoons instant yeast 2 cups liquid from jarred dill pickles About 8 cups of unbleached bread flour 1/2 cup nonfat dry milk powder 3 tablespoons sugar (I used Splenda) 3 tablespoons dried dill 2 tablespoons sea salt 4 large eggs, 3 lightly beaten 1. Make the instant mashed potatoes per package directions and set aside to cool. Measure out 3-1/2 cups when cool. 2. In a very large bowl, mix the yeast, bread flour, milk powder, sugar, dill, and sea salt. Mix the 3 beaten eggs to the dill pickle liquid and then add this mixture to the flour mixture, stirring to mix thoroughly. Using your hands, work all of the cooled mashed potatoes into the flour mixture. Mix until a soft, lumpy dough forms. 3. Scrape the dough out onto a lightly floured surface and knead until smooth, about 10 minutes. You want a smooth, satiny dough that is slightly sticky. Put the dough into a large, lightly oiled bowl, cover with plastic wrap (I use shower caps that I filch from hotels and motels), and let rise for about 45 minutes, or until doubled. 4. After the dough had risen, I cut the dough in half, formed a ball with one half, and returned it to the bowl. I covered it and put it in my fridge for an overnight retarded rise. I divided the second half into even amounts about half the size of tennis balls. It turned out that there were ten of them. I placed the balls in two rows of five so that they slightly touched each other on an oiled baking sheet (actually I used my Silpat). Then I covered them with a damp towel and let them rise until doubled, about 45 minutes. During this rise, I preheated my oven to 375F. 5. Just before baking, I mixed the remaining egg with a tablespoon of water and brushed the top of each ball. Bake the loaf for about 30-35 minutes, covering with foil after the first five minutes to prevent the tops from burning. When the tops are lightly golden (about 20 minutes), remove the foil so the top will brown evenly. Bake an additional ten or so minutes or until the interior temperature taken with an instant-read thermometer reaches 190F. Transfer the loaf to a rack to cool thoroughly before slicing. Note: Your oven will be different than mine, so, if you make this bread, watch it closely the first time so you can adjust the baking time. The next day, I made two boules from the remaining dough. Baking time was a bit longer because of the difference in shape. If you like the smell of dill, this bread will knock your socks off while it is baking. My mother-in-law is visiting us and she said it is the best bread she has ever had, and she is 86 years old. --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v102.n038.17 --------------- From: "Greg Carpenter" Subject: Open Crumb Date: Tue, 27 Aug 2002 09:55:43 -0400 Martin fritz wrote <> Martin, Many of the books out there will tell you that the answer to getting an open crumb is to use more water. While this is required, it's only half the story. To get an open crumb it is important to developed the dough slowly and carefully at an early stage and let it ferment slowly. You will need a dough that can hold gas even in a well-hydrated state (otherwise the gas escapes and you get smaller cells). Using a good flour that will remain extensible after a slow fermentation is also key. And most importantly, do not shape your breads too aggressively after the first rise (you'll turn the large cells into small ones). You must build dough strength before the final shaping and then shape the loaves gently, striving for a slightly taught outer crust and a relaxed interior in your final shape. The best tool I've discovered for keeping a dough strong-yet-extensible through a long fermentation is a technique called autolyse. To perform an autolyse, one combines only the flour and the water from the final dough and allows them to rest together for 30 to 60 minutes. This allows the proteins to slowly hydrate and greatly increases their extensibility (you can feel it happening). It also allows an enzyme called protease to work on the proteins. Protease "softens" wheat proteins and allows them to stretch more. Do not add salt, yeast, or any preferments (sponge, poolish, levain) to the autolyse. If added at the beginning they will strengthen the dough too much and negate the effect. Just the flour and water. After 30-60 minutes, add the remaining ingredients and finish kneading. Try kneading the bread until it is smooth (it must be smooth and well combined) but not overly developed. Let it rise once, punch it back, and let it rise again before shaping This will finish the development of the dough. Let the shaped loaf rise to Secondly, longer, slower fermentation tends to build more sturdy doughs. Use a preferment and/or a long, cool rise. Shape the loaves gently. A well developed dough may look very limp before it goes into the oven, but all of those cells inside the dough will inflate when the heat gets to them. A strong and extensible dough will stretch enough to hold the gasses. Good luck and keep experimenting. Greg Carpenter Petoskey, MI --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v102.n038.18 --------------- From: "Tamera Yoakum" Subject: recipe Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2002 11:31:29 -0500 Hello everyone, Does anyone have a bread recipe similar to the wonderful tasting herb bread made by the "Macaroni Grill" restaurant? I do not have bread machine so I will need one to do by hand. Thanks Tamera --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v102.n038.19 --------------- From: "D. Beeckler" Subject: Shaping dough Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2002 15:45:39 -0500 Could some of you long time shapers & bakers out there please give us who are new at it a tutorial on the proper methods of "shaping the dough into a loaf". Many of my bread machine recipes call for the dough to be made by machine and then removed and "shaped into a loaf and placed in a lightly greased loaf pan." I'm sure it can't be as easy as just patting it into a loaf shape and plopping it into the pan. Or is it? Many thanks. Diane in KY --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v102.n038.20 --------------- From: uma iyer Subject: Wholewheat bread Date: Sat, 24 Aug 2002 17:45:20 -0700 (PDT) Hi, I just made the wholewheat bread from the 'Bread Bakers Apprentice'. It was delicious. There was one problem though-the dough rose to fill about half the loaf pan. The recipe was for two loaves but I halved the recipe because i wanted to try one loaf. Any suggestions/ideas to remedy would be wonderful. Thank You very much Uma --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v102.n038.21 --------------- From: "Audrey & Bill" <2ofts@bigsky.net> Subject: What to do with old yeast? Date: Sat, 24 Aug 2002 11:26:41 -0600 (MDT) I have nearly a full pound brick of yeast that will not proof up any longer, but still has the smell, taste and consistency of it's original state. I know I can't use it for baking, but is there any other nutritional value to the body by eating it or mixing it in with liquids and drinking it? Audrey Konie 2ofts@bigsky.net --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v102.n038.22 --------------- From: Lobo From: "Richard L Walker" Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2002 12:27:34 -0500 > I'm trying to learn how to make bagels The following recipe is for sourdough bagels. To convert it to yeast bagels, add 1 T. yeast and proof it in some of the water. Substitute 4/5 cup water + 1 1/5 cup flour for 2 cups expanded sourdough. 2 c sourdough starter 2/3 c warm water 3 T sugar 1 t salt 3 1/2 c flour 3 qts boiling water 2 T sugar added to water 1 egg, beaten Mix sugar, salt, starter, water, and 2 1/2 C flour in large bowl until it pulls away from sides of bowl. Add flour to make firm dough (about 1 cup). Knead until smooth; let rise in a greased bowl until doubled. Punch down, knead briefly, and divide into 20 lumps. Shape each lump into a ball, then push a hole through to form bagel. (When I add raisins or blueberries, I make a wide rope of the lump, line up the fruit on it, fold dough over the fruit and press the edges together, then press the ends together into a circle. If you add frozen blueberries directly to the dough it gets very wet, slimy and gray and you have to add more flour. I haven't tried fresh blueberries yet.) Rise to double on greased sheets. Bring 3 qts water + 2 T. sugar to a boil. Adjust heat until boiling steadily but gently. Lift bagels off sheet with spatula, drop them into water one at a time. Boil 1 minute, then turn over for another minute. Lift out with slotted spoon onto baking sheet (drain if too wet). Brush them with beaten egg. Bake 20 minutes at 375 F or until golden. --------------- END bread-bakers.v102.n038 --------------- Copyright (c) 1996-2002 Regina Dwork and Jeffrey Dwork All Rights Reserved