Date: Sun, 11 Aug 2002 03:38:05 -0600 (MDT) -------------- BEGIN bread-bakers.v102.n034 -------------- 001 - Larry Klevans Subject: Bakeware Date: Tue, 06 Aug 2002 21:24:19 -0400 In a previous post by someone (whom I can't remember) was a web site for the Alfred Bakeware. The site is . The products, which were developed at the Ceramic Engineering program at Alfred University are all ceramic, and have very good release properties. I purchased a standard bread pan, and am very pleased. Larry Klevans --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v102.n034.2 --------------- From: Nifcon@aol.com Subject: Victor - Hearth Baking Date: Sun, 4 Aug 2002 07:09:19 EDT Victor Hearth baking in a domestic oven is an attempt to replicate the intense heat and steam of a commercial bread oven in order to maximise expansion of the baked dough and produce a lighter, more open-textured loaf. I'll describe the way I set up my oven to bake a typical batch of high-hydration Ciabatta style bread. I have 2 bakestones (the box called them "Pizza Stones") - dense, unglazed vitrified ceramic circles 12" in diameter and about 1/4" thick - which go into the oven on 2 shelves (it's a fan oven so shelf height is not very significant) from cold and stay there while the oven is heating - the oven is cranked up to maximum and left to heat for at least 1/2 hour and usually 3/4 hour or as long as the dough takes to proof. On the floor of the oven, also left in to heat thoroughly, is a large heavy steel baking pan. The loaves are proofed on Magic Carpet circles cut to fit the stones and when they are ready to bake I pump up the pressure sprayer - a garden spray bottle with a pressurising pump - gives a high volume fine mist - you can find them at garden centres and they're not expensive. I also bring a cup (8 oz) of water to a boil in the microwave. Working quickly I open the oven door , slide the loaves onto the very hot stones, pour the boiling water into the roasting pan and close the door. The boiling water hitting the hot pan gives an initial burst of steam that softens the expanding crust and allows the loaf to reach maximum size. After 30 seconds I open the door, spray the sides and top of the oven quickly and generously (the pressure sprayer comes into it's own here) and close the door. I repeat twice more at 30 sec intervals and then let the loaves finish baking. During baking the remains of the water in the roasting pan evaporates and the oven bakes dry for the rest of the time so that the crust can form and crisp. All this seems like a chore but the steamy environment delays the setting of the crust so that, as the loaf heats through, the expanding dough has room to rise and open up the texture of the crumb. Commercial ovens use a steam injection system which is very difficult to reproduce but the system I've described is very effective in increasing lightness and openness in your bread. It is also a pain in the neck at times but the quality of the bread is improved significantly by this technique. WHEN YOU OPEN THE OVEN TO SPRAY - STAND BACK !!!!!!! The first blast of evaporating water fills the oven with VERY hot steam and it rolls out of the oven in a potentially scalding blast of water vapour so take care! John John Wright Yorkshire, England "That which does not kill us makes us stronger" --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v102.n034.3 --------------- From: "Renzo64" Subject: Re: Unglazed Tiles vs. Standard Baking Stones Date: Sun, 4 Aug 2002 09:30:05 -0400 Becky wrote: > I can buy another > rectangular stone and put them side by side in the oven, but I was > wondering about unglazed tiles. I know there must be more than one person > out there who uses them, but I'm a little leery about lead in the clay and > so forth. In the late 70's, in the USA, lead was banned from building materials, so unglazed quarry tiles produced here are perfectly safe. I've been using mine for about 4 years now. They cost me less than $5. Prior to that I had a Pampered Chef baking stone and its replacement cracked in my oven! (I think it was the water spritz that did it.) I keep the tiles on the bottom rack of my lower oven which is the designated baking oven. The tile man kindly split 3 of them so that I could line the edges of the rack and have it fully covered. They remain there for whatever I cook in that oven and are only moved occasionally to vacuum up the burned bits of cornmeal that fall to the bottom of the oven. I bake formed breads and pizzas directly on them and loaves in their loaf pans all to good effect. A slow braised meat in a Dutch oven does better on them too...I think it is because they maintain a steady heat in the oven. The key is to get them up to heat properly...my oven needs a good 45 minutes before putting the bread in. I notice you live in Canada and I'm not sure of your lead laws, but I'd wager they are not much different from ours. I'm sure any purveyor of building materials would be able to tell you. I find the quarry tiles have made a positive difference in my breads and they are certainly a more affordable alternative to baking stones. renzo in ri --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v102.n034.4 --------------- From: "Mike Avery" Subject: Re:Malt Powder Date: Sun, 04 Aug 2002 07:44:01 -0600 Gonzo White wrote: > For Malt Powder.. > Go to your local grocery store and buy a bottle of Carnation Malt > powder. It's the same stuff and costs much much less. It's usually > with the ice cream toppings. It's not QUITE the same. It may work as well, but it is a mix of malt powder, sugar, and some chemicals. It's like the difference between ammonia and sudsy ammonia. If you use the wrong one, you might regret it. Given the amount of malt powder, or extract, used in a recipe, the cost per loaf - even if you buy it in a health food store instead of a brewing supply house - is pennies per loaf. Also, while Carnation might work for the some recipes, it non-diastatic, so if you need diastatic malt powder, it is definitely not the same. Mike -- Mike Avery MAvery@mail.otherwhen.com ICQ: 16241692 AOL IM: MAvery81230 Phone: 970-642-0282 --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v102.n034.5 --------------- From: "Mike Avery" Subject: Re: Unglazed Tiles vs. Standard Baking Stones Date: Sun, 04 Aug 2002 07:56:38 -0600 "Becky" wrote: > I have finally made an excellent pizza in my home oven by preheating > my Pampered Chef baking stone on the bottom rack (about 2" above the > floor) at 550 F for 30 minutes. I transferred the pizza to the stone > with a pizza peel dusted with semolina, and in 5 minutes we had > awesome pizza :-) > Now that I think I have the technique down, I'm looking to expand a > little, and I'm wondering what the best way to do that is. I can buy > another rectangular stone and put them side by side in the oven, but I > was wondering about unglazed tiles. I know there must be more than > one person out there who uses them, but I'm a little leery about lead > in the clay and so forth. Is there a source out there for food-grade > bricks or tiles? Or is there some way to determine the lead content > of tiles that are purchased from the local tile store? I'm thinking > that if I can get the right size ones, I can just leave them on the > bottom rack all the time - anybody ever run into any problems doing > this? I would think that it would be fine, and in fact might help > retain heat. The issue with clay isn't the clay, it's the glaze. Clay doesn't have significant amounts of lead. However, many glazes do. When a glaze is fired, the lead is supposed to be bound and non-reactive. However, this requires that all the glaze reach a certain temperature. Cheap tiles from third world nations often don't reach the right temperatures, evenly enough, or long enough. Which is why there are warnings against using the beautiful pottery you bought in Mexico for food. The second issue is cracking of the glaze. When it cracks, lower levels of the glaze are available, and lead can be leached out of that. The bottom line is that unglazed tiles are safe. Ask a hardware store or flooring store for unglazed quarry tiles. They'll know what you're looking for. A final comment on lead - the last time that this issue came up in rec.food.baking, I spent a weekend surfing the net looking for ANY indication that there was a problem with lead in clay tiles. I found none. I then asked my wife, who was a biologist in a former life and is currently a librarian, to look too. No evidence of lead in clay. At that point I asked the rather obnoxious poster in rec.food.baking who had claimed that lead was an issue for ANY evidence that lead in clay was a problem. Neither he, nor anyone else, came forward with any evidence. Correlating, suggestive, evidence. Clay tiles are baked at temperatures that your oven won't reach, even in its self-clean cycle. Anything in the tiles has been pretty well neutralized. It takes an acid solution and exposure time to leach lead out of tiles. When you drop a semi-solid loaf of bread on hot tiles, the surface seals at once, so there isn't much time for lead pickup, even if there was lead there, which there isn't. As to baking with tiles, I usually leave my tiles in the oven. I've covered both racks with tiles. The only drawback is it takes the oven longer to heat up than it does without. I was in a hurry this morning to make some sourdough blueberry muffins, so the tiles came out. The muffins also came out ... nicely, that is. Mike -- Mike Avery MAvery@mail.otherwhen.com ICQ: 16241692 AOL IM: MAvery81230 Phone: 970-642-0282 --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v102.n034.6 --------------- From: RPatter927@aol.com Subject: Re: long rise bread Date: Sun, 4 Aug 2002 11:28:39 EDT It used to be quite common to start the bread dough in a wooden dough trough at night and let it rise over night. The difference was the house temperature which was usually quite cold as the fireplace was not kept burning all night. Doing the same in a refrigerator makes an exceptionally flavored and textured loaf as a rule. Pat in Oregon --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v102.n034.7 --------------- From: "Chris Dalrymple" Subject: Unglazed Tiles vs. Standard Baking Stones Date: Sun, 4 Aug 2002 14:27:17 -0500 > ...I was wondering about unglazed tiles. I know there must be more > than one person out there who uses them, but I'm a little leery > about lead in the clay and so forth. Is there a source out there > for food-grade bricks or tiles? Or is there some way to determine > the lead content of tiles that are purchased from the local tile > store? I'm thinking that if I can get the right size ones, I can > just leave them on the bottom rack all the time - anybody ever > run into any problems doing this? I would think that it would be > fine, and in fact might help retain heat. > Any help, hints or tips would be appreciated - TIA > Becky > Windsor, CA Becky--I wanted to fit a double oven with tiles but didn't want to spend the money for 4 baking stones, so I bought unglazed floor tiles from Home Depot. They will even cut the tiles to your specifications (measure your oven interior and leave a 1" gap on all sides). Unfortunately, their saw wasn't working that day, so I cut them with a manual tile saw (huff puff). I, too, was worried about lead in the tiles, but the guy working in that department was a fellow bread head who assured me that they were safe for food. I leave them upside down (food drips onto them) in the oven and flip them over when baking bread on them. They do seem to hold the heat and keep the oven temperature from fluctuating as much. The only drawback I've found is that it takes longer for the oven to preheat. --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v102.n034.8 --------------- From: "Deb Tower" Subject: Raspberry scones Date: Sun, 4 Aug 2002 19:39:38 -0400 Hi All, Just looking to see if anyone has the recipe for the new raspberry and white chocolate scones from Dunkin Donuts. My husband and I love them but they can be expensive to buy for a family. Thanks, Debbie in Raymond, N.H. --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v102.n034.9 --------------- From: "Paschetag" Subject: A Question on Pita Bread Date: Mon, 5 Aug 2002 06:01:14 -0400 Hi there, Yesterday I made pita bread for the first time, using a recipe from the KAF Baking Sheet series. While the taste was excellent, the bread never really "poofed" up like a balloon during the baking process. After cooling, it did not separate into clean layers easily and was crisper than I expected. I baked the bread on a baking sheet placed on a preheated baking stone for 2 minutes and then moved the sheet higher in the oven for 5 minutes (500 F) as directed in the recipe. Does anyone out there have any thoughts on what I should do differently next time? Thanks! LP --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v102.n034.10 --------------- From: Bill Stanford Subject: Re: overnight rise Date: Mon, 5 Aug 2002 21:01:35 +1000 Just speaking with Ben here: overnight rises are a _big_ plus. The breadmaker I have (a local Breville Big Loaf) locks one into its cycles; and unless I do more than two rises I don't really get a good height and crumb, especially from wholemeals etc. But if I make dough at 11pm, rise for 3 hours then knead, rise, knock down, rise again and bake - at 7am, every day, we've a beautiful loaf... I don't rise in the fridge, just on the timer in the warm breadmaker. But Ben's right, you have to watch the amount of yeast used. For a 750g loaf (that's a 1-1/2lb loaf for most of you guys) I'd use 2 tsp of sugar and salt, 2 tsp of enhancer, but never more than a bit above a flat teaspoon of dry yeast. Occasionally for evening guests I'll make a loaf without a second long rise - but it's never the equal of our daily morning bread... Bill [de-lurking from Oz... >From: "Ben McGehee" >Subject: Re: overnight rise >Date: Sat, 27 Jul 2002 09:28:02 -0400 > > >Lobo writes: > > > >I didn't make the overnight one ... it seemed silly to me. Does anyone > >know what the point is? Have you tested such a recipe, and is it any > >better than a recipe you can complete in one morning or evening? > >Don't call something silly if you've never tried it. I much prefer longer >rising times for my breads, buns, etc. The longer rising times brings out >more flavors in the dough because the bacteria have a longer time to work. [snip] >with (a lot of) regular yeast. I would think that >the yeast would rise and then deflate in that time. I have only let >sourdough rise overnight, and even then I usually have to be careful. I >typically let my buns rise for an hour or two and then put them in the >fridge overnight to let the flavors develop --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v102.n034.11 --------------- From: "Greg Carpenter" Subject: Simulated Hearth Date: Mon, 5 Aug 2002 14:47:23 -0400 There are many options for simulating a hearth oven. My preferred material is refractory bricks in 1 inch thickness. The bricks are cheap and widely available in many sizes which allows one to fully cover the oven rack. Furthermore, the individual bricks are easy to remove and store (without worrying about cracking) when it's time to roast that holiday bird. Get tired of having them around? Use 'em to line your woodstove or jack up the car. As with any stone baking surface, be sure to wash them thoroughly and slowly heat them up to 500-plus F and let them fully cool to "season" them before baking. A stone hearth can do wonders for breads and pizzas. So can a new oven door gasket. Greg Carpenter Petoskey, MI --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v102.n034.12 --------------- From: "Marcy Goldman" Subject: Re: Better Pizza Stone Date: Mon, 5 Aug 2002 20:00:26 -0400 Hi This is for Becky - concerning a better pizza stone: I am now using a Hearth Kit - you can check it out at . We use the HearthKit in our test kitchens for everything - but esp. pizza. It is a stoneware - 'cradle' and radiates intense heat from the thick bottom piece as well as the sides which are fitted into two slots. Take a look where you can also find a link to the Hearth Kit site. marcy goldman --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v102.n034.13 --------------- From: Tarheel_Boy@webtv.net (Tarheel Boy) Subject: Here's something different that I adapted from a bread machine Date: Sat, 10 Aug 2002 14:52:50 -0400 (EDT) White Ranch Bread 3 1/4 cups Flour 1/3 cup Dry Milk 2 Tbsp. Sugar 1 1/2 tsp. Salt 1 Tbsp. Powdered Ranch Dressing Mix 2 tsp. Instant Yeast Mix all dry ingredients in a large bowl. Add: 1 1/8 cup Water 1 Egg, beaten 1/4 cup Vegetable Oil Mix well. Turn out onto a lightly floured works surface and knead until the dough is "ready." Cover loosely with plastic wrap and allow to rise until double, about an hour. Turn out onto a lightly floured surface and knead briefly. Form into a loaf and place in lightly oiled loaf pan. Allow to rise until dough crests over pan, about 30 minutes. Bake in a preheated 350 F oven for 30-40 minutes or until an instant thermometer reads 180 F. Allow to completely cool before slicing. This recipe may be doubled. Bob the Tarheel Baker --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v102.n034.14 --------------- From: Pat Robb Subject: Sheepherders bread Date: Tue, 06 Aug 2002 09:01:58 -0700 I have the original recipe, torn from an issue of Sunset Magazine, which has been moved from file to file for years. I didn't think it would work, so I never tried it. But I kept that recipe. Now, after all these years it turns up here on bbd. I read all of this with great interest and decided to give it a try for the family dinner on Sunday. My ancient Kitchen Aid managed all 9 1/2 cups of flour and I baked it in my late mother's cast iron dutch oven. It was her mother's as well, so it's been around. The dough actually did lift the 5 lb. lid. And I baked it in my Hearthkit lined oven. Took a little longer than the recipe said, and the lid stuck to the dough a bit. I think next time I will put a small circle of greased parchment between the dough and the lid. The whole process created a kitchen full of observers who didn't think it would work. But, the loaf was immense, with a golden crust and simply delicous. Everyone took some home and my daughters both ordered cast iron dutch ovens on Monday. My leftovers made an exceptional bread pudding. The texture of the loaf is similar to pain de mie. I'm thinking I might like to vary the flavor a bit - some white whole wheat or maybe some rye blend substituted for part of the all purpose flour. Or maybe try a 9 1/2 C. recipe of sourdough. Any suggestions or comments would be appreciated. Pat Robb --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v102.n034.15 --------------- From: Reggie Dwork Subject: Doughmakers loaf pan web site correction Date: Sat, 10 Aug 2002 23:00:12 -0700 Well .. another famous Reggie DUH!!! I spoke with Bette and she said to go to their other website www.theBakersPlace.com which is where the loaf pans are listed. You can also get to that site from www.doughmakers.com ... click on find a store (you can see if there is somewhere locally closer to you by filling out that info or) scroll to the bottom of the list and at the bottom you will find theBakersPlace.com click on it, when you get there look on the left side of the listings, click on bakeware, on the right of the three columns the 4th listing down is the loaf pan ... WHEW!! You can also check out all the other things they offer ... what an array of merchandise. Reggie --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v102.n034.16 --------------- From: Reggie Dwork Subject: Help Needed Date: Sun, 11 Aug 2002 02:33:32 -0700 I am working on a project and need input from physically challenged bread bakers. If you'd like to help, please email me at and tell me about your disability and how you work around it when baking. My own abilities have been slowly declining over the last 30+ years following an injury. I use a wheelchair full time and have an attendant. I've made many changes to my baking techniques over the years and I'd like to know about other people's experiences. Thanks, Reggie --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v102.n034.17 --------------- From: Reggie Dwork Subject: Coming Next Week! Date: Sun, 11 Aug 2002 02:13:17 -0700 No, not to your local theater :-) Recently we had the pleasure of seeing the wood-burning ovens on display at Mugnaini Imports and eating some marvelous flatbreads baked on the spot. A full report coming next week. Reggie & Jeff --------------- END bread-bakers.v102.n034 --------------- Copyright (c) 1996-2002 Regina Dwork and Jeffrey Dwork All Rights Reserved