Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 01:45:03 -0700 (MST)

-------------- BEGIN bread-bakers.v102.n011 --------------

    001 - Brianjwoody@aol.com       - Re: Sourdough evolution
    002 - Brianjwoody@aol.com       - Re: Travelling bread machine
    003 - Brianjwoody@aol.com       - Re: Maltcob flour
    004 - Gonzo White <gonzow@prodi - pizza toppings
    005 - "Ben Mcgehee" <bnmcgehee@ - Re: Gene Haldas - Starter Question
    006 - "Ben Mcgehee" <bnmcgehee@ - Re: Jeanette - Pizza toppings
    007 - "Jack Hill" <starb@wt.net - Cracked/Crushed Rye
    008 - Martha Stevens <mmstevens - Friendship Bread - re request for recipe
    009 - "Chris Dalrymple" <chrisd - Maltcob flour source
    010 - Ellen Lee <leep@mkl.com>  - Starter question from Bread Bakers Digest
    011 - "Walter Johnstone" <wjohn - Pizza Dough
    012 - Judith Barnett <pooh4jvn@ - Pizza toppings
    013 - Judith Barnett <pooh4jvn@ - Wonderful rye bread
    014 - Judith Barnett <pooh4jvn@ - Oh no! Travelling Bread Maching
    015 - Judith Barnett <pooh4jvn@ - Artisan breads
    016 - Claire E Kranz Banasiak < - Pizza Sauce
    017 - sherielynn@prodigy.net    - RE:Oh no! Travelling Bread Machine
    018 - Hahagranny@aol.com        - Re: maltcob flour
    019 - "Audrey & Bill" <2ofts@bi - Walking bread makers
    020 - "Mike Avery" <mavery@mail - Re: Digest bread-bakers.v102.n010
    021 - "Stone, Kenneth" <Stone@C - Rye flour
    022 - "robert" <rbrando1@nycap. - Re: Oh no! Travelling Bread Maching
    023 - "Herman Reinhart" <reinha - English Muffins
    024 - "Herman Reinhart" <reinha - Breadman Ultimate
    025 - AVSTROM@aol.com           - Re: Rye with milk sour
    026 - "Greg Carpenter" <bredhea - Starters and evolution
    027 - LizJeff Beardsley <ljbear - pizza toppings
    028 - Tarheel_Boy@webtv.net (Ta - Wandering Bread Machines...
    029 - Tarheel_Boy@webtv.net (Ta - English Muffins...
    030 - rhea <rheamav@concentric. - Re: Travelling Bread Machine

--------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v102.n011.1 ---------------

From: Brianjwoody@aol.com
Subject: Re: Sourdough evolution
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 07:45:06 EST


The evolution is a result of local airborne yeasts slowly overcoming the 
original. If you start with a San Francisco culture, and live there too, it 
will stay as is for ever (except that local things evolve too!). If you 
start in England with SF, as I did, it will slowly change. How slowly 
depends on how you nurture the culture, but change it will. You can freeze 
some of the original and reactivate at intervals, after throwing away the 
one you have been using. That keeps near the original for much longer.
Cheers, Brian 



--------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v102.n011.2 ---------------

From: Brianjwoody@aol.com
Subject: Re: Travelling bread machine
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 07:52:19 EST


There is a) something wrong with your machine, or b) more probably the mix 
was too stiff and the machine was labouring. I've had 3 machines and they 
barely move, just a little shake. The rubber feet stop any creep totally. 
If you think it will happen again just put the heaviest weight you have 
between the machine and the edge of your top. If it moves that you 
definitely have a faulty machine.
Brian
ps make sure there is no oil or grease under the machine; wipe the 
countertop with detergent, and the rubber feet. 



--------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v102.n011.3 ---------------

From: Brianjwoody@aol.com
Subject: Re: Maltcob flour
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 07:55:20 EST


Try King Arthur Flours at www.kingarthurflour.com, or beg some from a local
bakery. They will often sell a 5 or 10 lb sack, or tell you their sources.
You can also add grains, suitably treated, to wholewheat flour to get a
similar effect.
Brian 



--------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v102.n011.4 ---------------

From: Gonzo White <gonzow@prodigy.net.mx>
Subject: pizza toppings
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 07:12:51 -0600


My favorite pizza topping:
I start with a jar of Ragu Pizza Sauce, I then put 3 or 4 sliced
tomatoes,  and some Chorizo (Mexican Pork Sausage) a bit of Green Pepper 
and Onion and lots of cheese.



--------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v102.n011.5 ---------------

From: "Ben Mcgehee" <bnmcgehee@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Gene Haldas - Starter Question
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 08:21:58 -0500


 > A bakery in my neighborhood makes excellent sourdough bread. I tried
 > getting some starter from them but they told me they get their ready made
 > dough in bulk. I wonder if I got a few ounces of this dough could I use it
 > to make a starter?

It is probably possible, but not a very good idea. A starter has a 
different composition from dough. Starters never contain salt, and dough 
always does (I'm sure you could find exceptions, but 99.9%...). Depending 
on the bakery, they probably also have many other additives that make the 
dough work better for them, but would not make for a very good starter. The 
best choice is to get a starter somewhere else and try to get their recipe 
from the company that actually makes the dough - at least an ingredient 
list so you know what all they are adding besides the basic flour, water, 
starter, and salt.  Hope you find an acceptable substitute (or maybe 
someone else knows more about this than I do.)

Ben McGehee
UnAuthorized Type
http://uatype.faithweb.com



--------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v102.n011.6 ---------------

From: "Ben Mcgehee" <bnmcgehee@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Jeanette - Pizza toppings
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 08:30:36 -0500


 > But would those of you who gave your dough recipes please pass on some of
your favorite toppings for the pizzas, too?

I didn't give my dough recipe, so I hope that won't make you disregard my 
topping advice :)  A friend of mine who is now a pastor in Wyoming was 
famous for his pizza here at seminary. His favorite was a four cheese pizza 
- put down olive oil, the layer baby swiss, fontina, mozzarella, and 
gorgonzola. He really piled on the cheese, too. It was very good. Another 
thing I like to do is to slice tomatoes and put those down instead of pizza 
sauce - you'll probably want to throw on some Italian seasonings as well. I 
put all kinds of things on my pizza - basically whatever I have on hand: 
sausage, zucchini, squash, bell peppers, mushrooms, onion. Basically 
anything you like can be put on a pizza - it's very versatile.

Ben McGehee
UnAuthorized Type
http://uatype.faithweb.com



--------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v102.n011.7 ---------------

From: "Jack Hill" <starb@wt.net>
Subject: Cracked/Crushed Rye
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 07:50:07 -0600


To all of you who have helped me with resources, tips, offers, etc. on my 
search for cracked/crushed rye, I say "Thank YOU sooo very much!"  This 
list is truly wonderful; in more ways than just recipes.

Again, many thanks ..... I am on the right track!  ..... Star Hill



--------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v102.n011.8 ---------------

From: Martha Stevens <mmstevens@att.net>
Subject: Friendship Bread - re request for recipe
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 08:52:20 -0500


Here is a recipe for Friendship Bread that was posted by a member of the 
Baking Circle at the King Arthur Flour website.  The recipe calls for 
instant pudding mix -- it does not use a starter.  I've made it several 
times, and the bread/cake is delicious.

(from King Arthur Flour Baking Circle at www.bakingcircle.com)
12/31/2001
mrsm

Friendship Bread

I posted this recipe-without-a-starter on a much earlier thread, but since 
the topic has surfaced again, I repost it here. I have made this Amish 
bread many times, and after a while, I got tired of keeping the starter. My 
breads are always delicious, and like idotaxes wrote, I can't keep it in 
the house for more than a day or two when I make it. I found this recipe 
that tastes just like the starter bread, so I can enjoy it whenever I want 
without all the fuss of keeping starter. And yes, it is a quick bread. 
Probably would make fine muffins too, I have never tried that. If anyone 
does come up with a formula that does not use the instant pudding, I would 
love to know. I would prefer not to use instant chemicals in my bread.

Janet (MrsM)

Friendship Bread
2 cups all-purpose flour
1 cup sugar
4 tsp baking powder
1 1/2 tsp cinnamon
1/2 tsp salt
1/2 tsp baking soda
1 cup buttermilk (fresh, or powdered with 1 cup water)
2 eggs
1/3 cup oil (melted butter works also)
2 tsp vanilla
1 pkg vanilla instant pudding (or any flavor of your choice - chocolate and 
butterscotch are good)
Streusel Topping (optional - adds a crunchy topping)
2 tbsp sugar
1 tsp cinnamon
2 tsp softened butter

Heat oven to 350 F. Grease and flour bottom only of a 8x4 or 9x5 loaf pan.

In a large bowl, combine dry ingredients. Combine all wet ingredients in 
another bowl and add to the dry ingredients. Beat 3 minutes on medium speed 
of electric mixer. Combine streusel ingredients in a small bowl (if using 
streusel topping).

Pour batter into prepared pan and sprinkle streusel over batter.

Bake at 350 F for 45-55 minutes. Cool in pan 15 minutes, remove to wire 
rack and cool completely.

Optional: Add 1/2 cup chocolate chips or raisins or both to batter before 
baking. 



--------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v102.n011.9 ---------------

From: "Chris Dalrymple" <chrisdd@bellsouth.net>
Subject: Maltcob flour source
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 08:59:58 -0600


This is in response to Helen who wanted a US source for English bread 
flours. I couldn't find anything at all on maltcob flour, but did find this 
info on granary flour at the UK's Flour Advisory Bureau
(http://www.wheatintolerance.co.uk/generalfaq.asp):

"What is Granary flour? Granary is a registered trade name of Rank Hovis 
and is a malted wheat grain flour. Malted wheat grain flour is a brown 
flour with malted wheat grains added for distinctive nutty flavour."

According to the Rank Hovis web site they do not sell their flour or bread 
anywhere in the US or Canada.

King Arthur Flour carries their version of other European flours; maybe you 
could convince them to come up with a blend similar to granary flour.

-Chris Dalrymple



--------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v102.n011.10 ---------------

From: Ellen Lee <leep@mkl.com>
Subject: Starter question from Bread Bakers Digest
Date: Fri, 1 Jan 1904 01:45:17 -0500


Gene, I am no expert, but I think you could try feeding the piece of dough 
with 1/2 cup warm water and one cup all-purpose flour and see if the 
mixture bubbles and expands. Then take out a cup of the resulting mixture 
and feed it again. Give it a long proofing time at room temperature. I 
think that if you cannot achieve true sourdough, you will have at least the 
biga for beginning a chain of good Italian bread.

Where is Bob the Tarheel Baker when we need him? I miss his postings!

Ellen Lee 



--------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v102.n011.11 ---------------

From: "Walter Johnstone" <wjohnstone@mindspring.com>
Subject: Pizza Dough
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 10:33:03 -0500


To All:

I have to put my two cents in about pizza before you all are off and 
running on another subject, all interesting of course.  I happened to catch 
a snippet of a demo from Nick Malgieri on TV a couple of years ago.  He put 
together a pizza dough in a couple of minutes, ending up with a very soft 
dough (didn't get the list of ingredients).  But what he did with the dough 
has since then remained with me and works beautifully; he patted the dough 
(being quite wet) with flour and rolled it right out on parchment and then 
baked it!

Ever since being in Rome a few years ago,  my goal has been to duplicate 
the wonderful thin-crusted pizzas that I enjoyed there in the Piazza de 
Navona.  Through much experimentation, I have come up with the following 
method:

For the dough:

1 1/2 tsp. dry yeast
1/2 cup plus 2 T warm water  (105 - 115 F)
1 1/4 cups all-purpose flour
1/4 tsp. salt (more or less)

Dissolve yeast in water in medium bowl.  Add flour and salt 
gradually.  Work very little, just until mixed well (couple of minutes).

Pour a little bit of oil in bowl; flip dough around with a dough scraper or 
rubber spatula to coat it all around.  Cover and either refrigerate for a 
few hours or overnight preferably (makes for a much more cooperative dough, 
easier to roll out; but you can at this point just let it rise and then 
roll out).

Either on the counter or on a cookie sheet (I have a tiled counter so I 
need the sheet), using a small roller preferably, roll out the dough until 
pretty thin onto parchment paper, with a little lip at the edges.  In the 
meantime, heat up the oven to 450 F, along with a pizza stone or tile onto 
the the bottom shelf (I am presently using a 16-inch porcelain tile 
(lightly glazed) purchased from Lowe's for $4).

Top with whatever you would like, but with a light touch!  Roman pizzas do 
not have much on top of them (makes for a soggy crust with too much 
topping).  Either slide the pizza (still on the parchment) onto a cookie 
sheet with one end open or on a peel; then slip the pizza onto the tile or 
stone.  Bake for about 13-15 minutes and then voila!  I use scissors to cut 
the pizza, finding this easier.  This makes enough pizza for two.  I 
usually double the recipe.

Notes:  The tile is wonderful, but you must make sure it is porcelain 
(fired at a much higher temperature).  I have not yet tried to clean it 
during the self-cleaning process of the oven; that is the next 
experiment.  Also, dust the dough after being placed on the parchment 
before rolling and also during rolling, if necessary.  You do not have to 
worry about the underside of the dough sticking to the parchment; that is 
the beauty of it; it sticks while you are rolling (which is what you want - 
no shrinking); after baking, it rises right off the parchment!  I use a 
little pastry roller I believe it is called, with two little rollers, one 
on each end.  It is easier than a larger roller for me.

I thank you all for all the baking tips.  I look forward every week to get 
into this digest; it is fun.  Also, if anyone is interested in my choice of 
toppings I would be glad to share them.  Roasted tomatoes are the way to 
go!

Baking Carol



--------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v102.n011.12 ---------------

From: Judith Barnett <pooh4jvn@pacbell.net>
Subject: Pizza toppings
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 08:28:30 -0800


I always plant a lot of basil in the spring so in the fall I make tons of 
pesto and stock up my freezer. I have found that this makes a great pizza 
topping instead of a tomato based sauce. Our favorite pizza is: pesto 
spread on crust, chicken pieces sauted with garlic, red onions, mushrooms, 
mozzarella cheese and green peppers.

I have also used the same ingredients and replace the chicken and garlic 
with sausage and/or pepperonia.

Judith Barnett
pooh4jvn@pacbell.net
http://www.pbase.com/pooh4jvn/galleries



--------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v102.n011.13 ---------------

From: Judith Barnett <pooh4jvn@pacbell.net>
Subject: Wonderful rye bread
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 08:40:05 -0800


Hi everyone,
I have strayed from this list for a while but I have been reading. I have 
joined another list also that is just for ABM recipes. I got this recipe 
from them and made it the other day and it is just wonderful! I know it 
sounds a little strange with the pickle juice in it but you won't be sorry! 
My problem now is keeping pickle juice in the house. We don't eat many 
pickles. Anyone know if you can buy just pickle juice? <g>

Dill Pickle Rye Bread
1-1/2 Pound

3/4 cup water
1 cup pickle juice
1 whole egg
2 tablespoons shortening
3 cups bread flour
1 1/2 cups rye flour
2 tablespoons sugar
1 1/2 teaspoons salt
1 tablespoon dill weed
1 1/2 teaspoons caraway seed
3 teaspoons instant yeast

Directions:

Place all of the ingredients in your machines fully assembled pan (with the 
exception of those ingredients listed under "add at beep"). Select the 
basic or white cycle and press start.

HearthKit Directions:

Place all of the ingredients in your machines fully assembled pan (with the 
exception of those ingredients listed under "add at beep"). Select the 
dough or manual cycle and press start.

When the dough is finished remove it to a lightly floured surface and knead 
to deflate the air. Flatted the dough out in to a rectangle making sure one 
side is no wider than your bread pan. Roll the dough up jelly roll style; 
pinch to seal seams and ends. Place roll of dough in a lightly greased 
bread pan seam side down. Cover with a damp towel and place in a warm draft 
free place to rise. Allow to rise for 1 hour.

While the bread dough is rising preheat the HearthKit to 350 F. It is 
important that you do it right setting the dough aside for its final rise. 
It takes time to heat the HearthKit stone to the proper temperature.

Once the dough has finished its 1 hour rise, place the pan of dough in the 
oven in the center of the HearthKit and bake for 35 to 40 minutes.

Remove from the oven and allow to cool 10 minutes and then remove the bread 
from the pan and place on a cooling rack to cool. Allow to cool completely 
before slicing.

Notes:

This recipe makes great sandwiches. Like vegetables and cheese. Meat and 
Cheese and especially tuna salad, egg salad or chicken salad.

I use the brine from natural brine pickles. You can usually find these in 
the cold area of the supermarket with the cheese and butter. One brand to 
look for is "Bubbies". If you have a Trader Joe's near by they also have
a natural brine pickle in the cooler area. Just make sure they are dill 
pickles and not sour's.

Variations:

1. If you don't like running across the whole Caraway seed, grind them up 
in blender or herb only coffee grinder. This gives you the flavor without 
the seeds.

2. Add some finally chopped onion or 1 tsp. onion powder to the dough for a 
onion type rye bread.

3. In addition to the dry dill weed add 2 to 4 tbsp. of fresh minced dill 
weed. Most supermarkets have fresh dill in the produce area. You want the 
fern part and not the heads

Judith Barnett
pooh4jvn@pacbell.net
http://www.pbase.com/pooh4jvn/galleries



--------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v102.n011.14 ---------------

From: Judith Barnett <pooh4jvn@pacbell.net>
Subject: Oh no! Travelling Bread Maching
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 08:43:21 -0800


I now have an Oster ABM which is very  stable but at one time I had a 
Welbilt that did a lot of "walking". I found the best (and easiest) 
solution was just to put it on the floor. My kitchen is right next to the 
dining room which has carpet. The noise of the ABM on the counter bothered 
me too so I found setting it on the carpet solved both problems.

Judith Barnett
pooh4jvn@pacbell.net
http://www.pbase.com/pooh4jvn/galleries



--------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v102.n011.15 ---------------

From: Judith Barnett <pooh4jvn@pacbell.net>
Subject: Artisan breads
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 08:45:04 -0800


Can someone explain to me what Artisan breads are and maybe a sample 
recipe? ABM preferred.

Judith Barnett
pooh4jvn@pacbell.net
http://www.pbase.com/pooh4jvn/galleries



--------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v102.n011.16 ---------------

From: Claire E Kranz Banasiak <cekb@juno.com>
Subject: Pizza Sauce
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 12:52:49 -0500


This is the pizza sauce I make for my pizza, whether I bake in the oven or 
on the grill.  It is not too sweet.  My family does not like sweet pizza sauce.

3 cloves garlic, chopped
pinch of crushed red pepper flakes
2 - 3 T olive oil
1 can (28oz) whole, peeled, plum tomatoes, with basil (San Marzano if you 
can find them)
1 tsp oregano

Put olive oil in sauce pan, add garlic and pepper flakes, and pinch of 
salt.  Saute until garlic is golden but not brown.  Mean while remove seeds 
from tomatoes, save juice.  When garlic is ready add tomatoes and juice to 
pan.  Add 1 tsp oregano.  If you have an immersion blender use to  puree 
tomatoes and garlic, otherwise put in blender and puree until smooth.  Let 
mixture cook 20 to 30 minutes.  Check for sweetness and salt.  If adding 
sugar let cook another 10 minutes.  Let cool before using.  Enjoy. 



--------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v102.n011.17 ---------------

From: sherielynn@prodigy.net
Subject: RE:Oh no! Travelling Bread Machine
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 11:16:18 -0800


All three of my bread machines have tried walking off my counter, but I 
have a very narrow counter.  I solved that problem, when I make bread, I 
place the machine on the floor.  No falls and it frees up my tiny counter 
for other uses.

Happy Baking,
Sherie



--------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v102.n011.18 ---------------

From: Hahagranny@aol.com
Subject: Re: maltcob flour
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 15:39:22 EST


Haven't checked any of these sites out but a quick search on yahoo showed 
these & more (I put in malt cob flour):

http://www.holgran.co.uk/pages/holmix2.htm

http://www.wrightsflour.co.uk/pages/trade/products/brown.html

If nothing else maybe they can lead you to a source.  You may also want to 
contact King Arthur & they may be able to help.

HTH & God Bless,
Georgia (HAHAGRANNY)



--------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v102.n011.19 ---------------

From: "Audrey & Bill" <2ofts@bigsky.net>
Subject: Walking bread makers
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 15:49:05 -0700


Dave Atkinson had his bread maker fall off the counter and was looking for 
a solution to keep this from happening again.  I wrote to him with the 
solution I found for myself.  Hope this works for those of you with the 
same problem.

I luckily caught my old Regal bread machine just about to walk off the edge 
of my counter one time.  I had four rubberized little coaster-type pieces 
that measured about 3" x 3" and put one each under the two "feet" at the 
counter edge.  Now, nothing walks away.  Some of this material is sold by 
the roll to use as shelf cushioning, but I think anything that is 
rubberized (or whatever material is used) will do the trick for you.

Happy baking to all of you.

Audrey Konie from Montana



--------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v102.n011.20 ---------------

From: "Mike Avery" <mavery@mail.otherwhen.com>
Subject: Re: Digest bread-bakers.v102.n010
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 08:43:13 -0700


On 9 Mar 2002 Gene Haldas wrote:

 > A bakery in my neighborhood makes excellent sourdough bread. I tried
 > getting some starter from them but they told me they get their ready
 > made dough in bulk. I wonder if I got a few ounces of this dough could
 > I use it to make a starter?

There is a really good chance that it's not sourdough at all.  Many 
bakeries get dough that has commercial yeast and chemicals added to taste 
like sourdough.  That won't culture.

If they wrap the bread and put labels on it, you might be able to tell what 
they are doing.  If baker's yeast, acetic acid, malic acid, and/or lactic 
acid are on the label, it's probably not really sourdough at all.

Mike



--------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v102.n011.21 ---------------

From: "Stone, Kenneth" <Stone@CSD.com>
Subject: Rye flour
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 08:05:03 -0800


How long is rye flour "good" for?  I've heard mention that it should be 
kept cold to make it last longer.  Isn't it just flour? 



--------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v102.n011.22 ---------------

From: "robert" <rbrando1@nycap.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Oh no! Travelling Bread Maching
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 11:23:12 -0500


I have a bit of a strange sense of humor and your 'post' set it off. It 
will make my day. So! In that you do not want to build a corral or do 
construction. How about setting the Machine on the floor, to start with, it 
surly will not fall up to the counter.

Perhaps a more balanced recipe?
(sorry).

What kind of (Brand) Machine is it? Maybe I'll buy one. I could use a 
little more zest in my life. At least till Winter goes away. What a challenge!

Good luck with this & keep us posted, please.



--------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v102.n011.23 ---------------

From: "Herman Reinhart" <reinhart@bigvalley.net>
Subject: English Muffins
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 08:48:44 -0800


Note for Jerry Ulett and others,

I made a batch of muffins using The bread Makers Apprentice recipe. The 
taste was good and they were easier to make than I thought they would be. 
However they were a bit larger than I like. I think the Thomas brand have 
more nooks and crannies. Any one know how they do that?

Herman Reinhart
reinhart@bigvalley.net



--------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v102.n011.24 ---------------

From: "Herman Reinhart" <reinhart@bigvalley.net>
Subject: Breadman Ultimate
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 09:13:34 -0800


Several of you have been discussing the merits of various bread machines. I 
just bought The Ultimate 2 months ago when King Author was extolling its 
virtues. The next month they recommended the Zo. The programmability is not 
anything to write home about but it mixes a 6 cup recipe on the dough cycle 
very well. My problem with the Ultimate is the service the Salton people 
give. I E-mailed them for assistance in programming a dough cycle before I 
found out that it won't do what I want. The response I got was 6 weeks 
later and said they needed a model number (Ultimate was not good enough I 
guess). That was better than a week ago and no response yet. No wonder KA 
now recommends the Zo.

ps: No I am not related to Peter.

Herman Reinhart
reinhart@bigvalley.net



--------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v102.n011.25 ---------------

From: AVSTROM@aol.com
Subject: Re: Rye with milk sour
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 13:55:12 EST


Hello rye bread lovers

This is my first post to this (or any other)list, but I am couldn't 
restrain myself from responding to Jessica's rye bread quest.

She wrote (in bread-bakers.v102.n010):

 > Coincidentally, I'm trying the Ortiz recipe right now.  I've made
 > the one in Secrets of a Jewish Baker a few times (with good results
 > but it takes a longer time than I often have available), and the
 > one that was published in Cook's Illustrated a while back (excellent
 > sandwich bread, not quite the rye of my New York memories but still
 > good).

I have made the Secrets of a Jewish Baker one and liked it very much. 
YESTERDAY I made the one from Cook's Illustrated and didn't care for it. My 
favorite which I am returning to today is the seeded sour rye from A 
Treasury of Jewish Holiday Baking by Marcy Goldman. Let me know how the 
Ortiz one goes.

Thanks.

Amy Stromberg
Amherst, NY
avstrom@aol.com



--------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v102.n011.26 ---------------

From: "Greg Carpenter" <bredhead@breadworks.com>
Subject: Starters and evolution
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 14:29:03 -0500


Ed Dalton wrote

<<This would make Ed Woods Sourdoughs all the same after awhile, so there 
can be no starter dating back more than what- a month, two months, a year? >>

This is correct.

<<BTW, I have a grape starter that I have maintained since before Bread's 
from the La Brea Bakery was published around 6 years ago but based on the 
procedure and it has retained is unique quailities.  I also have Carl's 
which is unique to the grape starter.  I will from time to time do starters 
from scratch and each is different from the grape and Carl's.You have 
overlooked the symbiotic relationship that develops between yeast and the 
bacteria, one complementing the other and excluding other flora that might 
try to invade the happy home.>>

Ed,

Mr. Wood's book is a thoroughly entertaining read but should not be taken 
as a text on sourdough baking.  His unique starters may remain uncorrupted 
in a laboratory if each is given a unique refreshment schedule and kept in 
sanitized conditions.  However, even in a sanitized environment, starters 
that are given the same refreshment will become similar.

Starters evolve based on the ingredients used, the ratio of those 
ingredients and the time/temperature of their fermentation cycles.  If two 
different starters are refreshed with the same ingredients in the same 
ratios at the same time and given the same time/temperature process, they 
will eventually become similar.  Over time, the organisms favored by the 
controlled variables will thrive and those that don't will not.  And, yes, 
they will evolve into symbiotic relationships that involve many types of 
microorganisms.  But, these relationships are dynamic, not static.  Any 
baker who uses sourdough on a daily basis will verify that starters change 
over time.

In my bakery we have 3 starters that are fed the same flour and water but 
in different ratios and they are given different fermentation cycles. By 
design, they have vastly different characteristics.  They were all 
originally started in different places and given to me while I was working 
at another bakery.  They moved with me when I started my own bakery. 
Everything about them changed when I changed flour brands and used my new 
well water (something I had not counted on.  Experience is a good teacher). 
Furthermore, their characteristics change noticeably from season to season 
and flour lot to flour lot.  You can't stop evolution!  We now know how to 
effect desirable changes and minimize variation by manipulating the 
refreshments.

There have been times when I've had to restart each of these starters, 
either from scratch or from a piece of another starter (once I even used 
starter that one of my students brought to demonstrate this very 
point.  She had bought it from King Arthur.)  Within a week, using 
scheduled refreshments, the starter was performing as it always had 
(although things were definitely weird while achieving 
equilibrium).  Having used cultures from many sources over the years on a 
daily basis I can say unequivocally that it is the refreshment, not the 
source, that determines a starter's characteristics.  A skilled sourdough 
baker uses this knowledge to achieve the characteristics he/she desires in 
the finished loaf.

So, to the point, I'm sure your starters do taste different from each other 
(and that's good!), but this is because they are maintained differently or 
at different times, not because one is older or more exotic than the other. 
Should you choose, you can verify this.  Take pieces of two of your 
starters and give them the same refreshment schedule for 2 weeks. Put them 
in similar containers (clean, of course). Use the same amounts of the same 
flour and water (at the same temperatures), leave them next to each other 
on the same counter to ferment at the same time for the same amount of 
time.  After 2 weeks bake the same recipe with each starter.  Don't do 
anything to one that you don't do to the other.  You'll get the same bread.

Greg Mistell, a well-regarded Northwest baker and former coach of the 
Coupe-de Monde- winning US baking team, tells a story of how he paid top 
dollar for a small piece of "San Francisco" starter when he was just 
getting started, only to watch it evolve into something he already had for 
free. Experience is a good teacher.

Keep on baking,

Greg Carpenter
Petoskey, MI



--------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v102.n011.27 ---------------

From: LizJeff Beardsley <ljbeardsley@yahoo.com>
Subject: pizza toppings
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 13:50:17 -0800 (PST)


This is for Jeannette from Texas:  One of my favorite pizzas is Gorgonzola, 
fresh fig (quartered) and prosciutto (or not).  If fresh figs are not 
available, I've also used dried figs, quartered and 'plumped' in port.  You 
have to watch the pizza carefully, though, the figs can burn.  When making 
'plain' cheese pizza, I've found that Fontinella cheese mixed with regular 
mozzarella (not fresh) makes a good cheese blend. Clam pizza is great with 
oregano, olive oil and prosciutto (in this case it really makes a 
difference).  These are my favorites, but,have fun, try what you 
like!  It's especially fun to experiment with different grating cheeses 
(Manchego, aged goat Gouda, etc.).    



--------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v102.n011.28 ---------------

From: Tarheel_Boy@webtv.net (Tarheel Boy)
Subject: Wandering Bread Machines...
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 23:59:33 -0500 (EST)


Well, Catherine, I don't mean this to be funny, but have you considered 
putting your bread machine on your kitchen floor when you are not there to 
watch it?
          Bob the Tarheel Baker



--------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v102.n011.29 ---------------

From: Tarheel_Boy@webtv.net (Tarheel Boy)
Subject: English Muffins...
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 00:05:13 -0500 (EST)


Jerry, I have just made Rick Krall's English muffins and they are 
superb.  I'm going to try Peter Reinhart's recipe soon, but they will have 
to be very, very good to beat Rick's muffins.  They are the best I have 
ever eaten.  I'll report after I make Brother Peter's recipe.
             Bob the Tarheel Baker



--------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v102.n011.30 ---------------

From: rhea <rheamav@concentric.net>
Subject: Re: Travelling Bread Machine
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 16:49:46 -0500


I've never had bread machine, but i've heard of this problem somewhere and 
what that person did was put her machine on the floor.  It had nowhere to 
fall that way.

rhea



--------------- END bread-bakers.v102.n011 ---------------


-------------- BEGIN bread-bakers.v102.n012 --------------

    001 - "rachaellohr" <rachaelloh - Reinhart's English Muffins
    002 - "melissa milos" <milos.fa - I've forgotten how to send a letter hope this is O.K
    003 - "Janis McDill" <jmcdill@u - Mister Loaf Model HB-420
    004 - "Woofus" <woofus@adelphia - Re: Friendship Bread  "Joel Goodman"

--------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v102.n012.1 ---------------

From: "rachaellohr" <rachaellohr@email.msn.com>
Subject: Reinhart's English Muffins
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 19:20:22 -0600


Jerry Ulett wrote "I am also interested in appraisals of the English muffin 
recipe from the Reinhart Book 'The Bread Baker's Apprentice.'"

I LOVE the Reinhart book and everything I've tried from it (make sure you 
try the Italian bread and the bagels).  When I made the English Muffins, 
the texture and flavour were outstanding, but they did rise at a rather 
frightening rate and got kind of thick for my regular (not wide-slot 
toaster).  Next time I will either shape them to be wider (and thus 
thinner), or try decreasing the yeast just a bit.  I think Mr. Reinhart 
himself would want us to use this book as a guide, not a formula, so have 
fun experimenting!

Rachael Lohr



--------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v102.n012.2 ---------------

From: "melissa milos" <milos.family@sympatico.ca>
Subject: I've forgotten how to send a letter hope this is O.K
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 12:35:14 -0500


I purchased lecithin liquid because I saw it in a healthy bread cookbook, 
and hoped it was like malt extact. It is not and tasted really gross.

Help! Does any one know why or how to use it in bread, I probably should 
have bought the cookbook and now I can't remember which book it was.

Thanks melissa
milos.family@sympatico.ca



--------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v102.n012.3 ---------------

From: "Janis McDill" <jmcdill@uscenter.net>
Subject: Mister Loaf Model HB-420
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 09:17:12 -0600


My son purchased a Mister Loaf Model HB-420 bread machine for me at a 
garage sale.  It is like new, but has no instructions.  Can you help me 
find instructions for its use.  My email address is 
jmcdill@uscenter.net.  Thank you.



--------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v102.n012.4 ---------------

From: "Woofus" <woofus@adelphia.net>
Subject: Re: Friendship Bread  "Joel Goodman"
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 11:58:12 -0500


Hello Joel, A quick search on the web yielded the following recipe so I'll 
send it along in its entirety and give credit for the bread to Mrs. Norma 
Condon of Los Angeles and I supplied my starter recipe.  It's a difficult 
life for an internet geek, baker, + cook such as myself. So many recipes 
out there, so little time. <sigh>

Let me share my "difficult life" with you. Misery loves company (chuckle). 
If you are looking for something unusual and have www access try the most 
powerful search site I know of. www.google.com

I typed in what you were looking for, in this case  friendship bread 
instant pudding   and turned up many responses. Now that you've reminded me 
of how good these cakes are, I'm going to try an Amish Cinnamon Bread 
w/instant pudding item that turned up there. If you don't have access to 
the web join me as I stay with the bread-bakers list. The people subscribed 
here have offered great advice and recipes time after time. I always wanted 
an opportunity to return the favor to someone and say, "Thank You" for 
everyone else's postings.


Amish Friendship Bread w/instant pudding

Important Note: Don't use metal spoons or equipment. Do not refrigerate. 
Use only glazed ceramic or plastic bowls or containers.

Required Main Ingredient

1 cup live yeast starter

Yeast Starter
Friendship Starter:

1/2 tsp Active dry yeast
2 tbsp Warm water
1 cup sugar
1 cup flour
1 cup milk

Day one:

Combine yeast, warm water, and a pinch of sugar in a cup; allow to stand a 
few minutes until it begins to foam. In a large glass or plastic bowl 
combine sugar, flour, and milk with a wooden or plastic spoon. Stir in the 
yeast mixture. Do not use a metal bowl, spoon or beater. Also, Do not 
refrigerate the starter. Cover loosely and keep at room temperature.

day 1:
Do nothing extra to the starter.

days 2-5:
Stir with a wooden spoon.

day 6:
Add 1 cup flour, 1 cup sugar, and 1 cup milk. Stir with a wooden spoon.

days 7-9:
Stir with a wooden spoon.

Day 10:
Add 1 cup flour, 1 cup sugar and 1 cup milk. Stir. Take out 3 cups and 
place 1 cup each into three separate plastic containers. Give one cup and a 
copy of this recipe to three friends. To the balance (a little over one 
cup) of the batter, add the following ingredients and mix well.

1 cup oil
1/2 cup milk
3 eggs
1 tsp vanilla

In a separate bowl combine the following dry ingredients and mix well:

2 cups flour
1 cup sugar
1 1/2 tsp baking powder
2 tsp cinnamon
1/2 tsp baking soda
1 box (5.1 oz) instant vanilla pudding
1/2 tsp salt
1 cup nuts (if desired)

Add dry ingredients to wet ingredients. Mix and pour into two well greased 
and sugared bread pans. Bake at 325 F for 1 hour.

Enjoy!

Tom
http://home.adelphia.net/~thomabie/

[[ Editor's note: This recipe was also sent in by Mary 
<Croft.Family@connriver.net>.  Her variation used a "ziplock" bag for the 
starter.  Mixing is done by squeezing the bag.  -- Jeff ]]
  



--------------- END bread-bakers.v102.n012 ---------------



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