Date: Sat, 9 Feb 2002 00:51:28 -0700 (MST) -------------- BEGIN bread-bakers.v102.n006 -------------- 001 - Roxanne Rieske Subject: replies Date: Sun, 3 Feb 2002 01:29:07 -0700 Peach_Rx wrote: "2. When using bannetons, I find it very difficult to tip the dough out onto a peel without deflating it. Anyone have any tips on doing this? I know that the more "slack" dough is preferable, but I just can't seem to get the hang of doing it right." If your dough is deflating, it may be because it's overproofed. These kinds of rustic breads should be proofed just until they are 1 1/2 times their size, not doubled. Another problem could be that the dough isn't strong enough to hold it's shape. I've found that all 80% hydration doughs (most rustic breads) really benefit from the stretching and folding technique. This stretches and strengthens the gluten strands even further which helps the loaves to maintain their shapes. For more info, refer to the Bread Bakers Apprentice. "3. I would like to find out the best way to "par bake" breads. I can only bake on the weekends, and I usually make multiple loaves. I have tried freezing the dough before the first rise, partially baking, and then freezing. I'd like to know what you find most successful." When I parbake, I bake the loaves till they reach 180 degrees. This ensures that I get the oven rise that I want and that the protein structure is set enough for freezer storage. Then when I want to finish baking, I bake at 350 until the bread is the right color. I really don't recommend parbaking for hearth breads, but for muli-grain breads, sandwhich loaves, and enriched rolls and sweet breads this works well. And about kitchen attatchments.....cooking.com usually has some good prices on replacement parts. You can also buy them at Sir La Table and Williams Sonoma Roxanne, the Nutty Baker -- "they say you're only half alive till you give extra whitening a try" --jewel "an angels face is tricky to wear constantly" --purple people "you don't have to like me for who I am, but we'll see what you're made of by what you make of me" --ani --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v102.n006.2 --------------- From: LAllin@aol.com Subject: Re: Breadman paddle Date: Sat, 2 Feb 2002 12:40:51 EST I had very good luck buying a pan and paddle for my TR500 from Breadkid. The pan was not available from most of the other sources or was twice as expensive as it was from Breadkid (which I think is affiliated with Salton). Here is the contact info if you'd like to check for your needs: Breadkid P.O. Box 921 Mt. Prospect IL 60056 (800) 233-9054 --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v102.n006.3 --------------- From: Cjconrad84@aol.com Subject: Kitchen Aid replacement parts Date: Sat, 2 Feb 2002 12:54:34 EST Re Kitchen Aid. Toll free number 1-800-541-6390 Web site kitchenaid.com Paddles and dough hooks $14.95, $16.00 for commercial. --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v102.n006.4 --------------- From: "Pedro S. Arellano III" Subject: Proof boxes Date: Sat, 2 Feb 2002 12:08:27 -0600 At the risk of beating the dead horse into a pile of... well-- ya. Anywho, several people have mentioned the use of a styrofoam cooler. I just wanted to let everyone know that Ed Wood has detailed instructions in his quintessential sourdough book "World Sourdoughs From Antiquity". You may want to visit his website. http://www.sourdo.com/book.htm Fellow Bread Fiend, Pedro --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v102.n006.5 --------------- From: "Jerry Ulett" Subject: KA Part Replacement Date: Sat, 02 Feb 2002 11:04:55 -0800 Melissa wrote: "I have been following the posts on the KA mixers and wondered if anyone else has had a similar problem. I got my KA almost 13 years ago when I got married and now the coating on the mixing paddle is coming off. My mixing paddle and dough hook are both coated in white paint or some other coating to match the mixer color (I guess). Has anyone else had this happen? Is it time to find a new mixer? Should I contact KA about the problem? Any suggestions appreciated." I ordered two Kitchen Aid replacement paddles. One for my mixer and one for my daughter> Both came from Culinary Parts. You can e-mail them at infor@culinaryparts.com. KA can also furnish. Their toll-free number is (or was, at least) 800-541-6390. My paddle was dragging on the bottom of the bowl and not only wore out the paddle, but also damaged the mixer and eventually required repair of the mixer. Jerry Ulett When traveling incognito, do as the Cognitions. --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v102.n006.6 --------------- From: "Louise Hyson" Subject: For Peach_Rx re General Mills bread recipe Date: Sat, 2 Feb 2002 14:11:24 -0500 Re the first question in your posting: you might try checking out a book called "Best Recipes: From the Backs of Boxes, Bottles, Cans and Jars" by Ceil Dyer. Don't know if the recipe is there but it might be worth a look. Louise --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v102.n006.7 --------------- From: "bevco" Subject: Re: Blarney Stone recipe Date: Sat, 2 Feb 2002 17:13:52 -0600 Dear Maryanne, In response to the Blarney Stone recipe: The consistency you describe is either too much liquid or too little flour. Flour varies from crop year to crop year so you need to adjust based on the flour quality for that year, but usually it is just a moisture problem—in humid weather, use more flour. Add enough flour to make it form a doughball. You might want to take it out of the mixing pan and work it with your hands just to be sure the problem is that it is too sticky and needing more flour. It is also possible that the dough might be so stiff from too much flour that it is too stiff to work up into a ball. Bev --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v102.n006.8 --------------- From: "Werner Gansz" Subject: RE: Proofing Boxes and Books Date: Sun, 3 Feb 2002 08:06:59 -0500 Re: Proofing Boxes - When I turn on the light in my JennAir oven the temperature rises to 95 deg (with the door closed). But when I stick the handle of a wooden spoon in the door the temperature goes to 78 deg and stays there. I usually help the temperature to get started by turning the oven on for 15 seconds, then using the wooden spoon handle to hold the door ajar and keep the light on. The only down side is that you have to pull the dough out during the final rise in order to preheat the oven for baking, but once started the loaves will keep on rising at room temperature. Re: Peter Reinhart's "The Bread Baker's Apprentice" - Thank you to Reggie for recommending this book. I read through most of it before trying any baking. This is a good teaching book and is worth the read. (Joe Ortiz's "The Village Baker" is still the best teaching book on bread baking that I have seen but "Apprentice" is a close second.) The only bread I have had time to bake is his Pain a l'Ancienne. When I read the story behind the recipe the hyperbole and extravagant claims for the taste of the bread seemed over-done, but when I baked it I could not deny that this procedure resulted in the best tasting baguettes I have ever made. Considering that the ingredients are nothing special, just the usual white flour, water, yeast, and salt, the uniqueness of the bread is in the procedure. This is a cold dough bread. The flour is mixed to a very wet consistency with ice water and the kneaded dough is left to rise overnight in the fridge. The dough is then left out on the counter to warm and finish rising to the usual doubling the next morning. The dough is very wet so shaping the loaves into baguettes is not really possible. The dough is handled very much the way ciabatta dough is handled, by pulling and stretching into a rectangle, then cutting lengthwise to create long, thin and rather ugly looking dough strips. (It could be argued that this is really a ciabatta dough shaped into baguettes but that's for the purists to debate.) There is no final rise of the shaped loaves. Surprisingly, the dough-strips jump to attention in the oven and form rather rustic looking baguettes. (Hence the name "Ancienne"; I doubt that they had refrigerators in "ancienne" times.) The crust was thick and very chewy. The crumb has an off-white color and is very moist and irregular. The taste is superb. I've tried direct methods, wet sponge methods and overnight bigas to make French and Italian white breads but this method is by far the best tasting (and easiest). Unlike most baguettes, even in France I'm told, this bread for more than just soaking up soup. Werner Gansz --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v102.n006.9 --------------- From: "Amy A. Smereck" Subject: KA Beater Adjustment Clarification Date: Sun, 03 Feb 2002 15:18:10 -0500 Dear Melissa and interested others: The "Beater to Bowl Clearance" section of the KA manual pictures the screws involved. On the 4 1/2 qt model (where the bowl attaches to the bottom) this is the screw you can see when you tip the head back. You turn it counter clockwise to raise the beater and clockwise to lower the beater. On the other model, it is the screw between two Phillip's head screws (sort of in a triangle) apparently revealed when you put the bowl lift down and look upwards under the mixer head. I don't have this one so I am describing the picture in the manual. Again, Counter clockwise to raise and clockwise to lower. The manual cautions to unplug the unit while making these adjustments. They are adjusted at the factory but apparently don't stay adjusted or aren't adjusted very thoroughly. I find if you smear some butter or shortening on the bottom of the bowl you can check and see if the paddle is rubbing or not. If it does, you can see the tracings of the paddle on the bowl when you give it a few turns at low speed. Resmear and test again. The goal is to have it close to the bowl without coming into contact. The manual says "When properly adjusted the flat beater will not strike on bottom or side of bowl. If beater or wire whip is adjusted too close so that it strikes botteom of bowl, coating may wear off beater or wires may wear through on wire whip." It may be wise to check this every so often to keep things in tune. I imagine the rubbing puts extra stress on the motor (especially when baking my mother's anise drop cookies which require 45 minutes of beating.) The KA number is 1-800-541-6390; maybe they can send you a new manual, if you can survive the time on hold. Happy mixing, Amy --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v102.n006.10 --------------- From: "Mike Hammel" Subject: KA and other appliance parts Date: Sun, 3 Feb 2002 16:34:31 -0500 I discovered this website the other day. I haven't used them but they sure seem to have parts for just about every appliance ever made, including Kitchen Aid beaters. http://www.thegourmetdepot.com/ Mike --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v102.n006.11 --------------- From: Terry Vlossak Subject: KitchenAid Replacement Paddles Date: Sun, 3 Feb 2002 19:22:12 -0800 (PST) In my professional life, I have had to replace many KitchenAid paddles, dough hooks and beaters. The paddles get a lot of use in our bakery, and someone bent the tabs up on the bowls to lower the paddle position in the bowl (not knowing enough to use the adjustment screw, I suppose). The result was paddles that wore out in 3 months instead of 1 year. The quickest way to replace them is to go to a restaurant supply store and buy them there. If you have a few to chose from, call ahead and compare prices. I can usually buy any one of the three attachements for about $15, give or take a dollor or so. At home I have a KA heavy duty, and I've found it extremely helpful to have an extra paddle and whip, as well as an extra bowl. It's important to give them the correct model number of the KA you have, since the paddle for a K45 doesn't fit the bowl of a K5. Good luck! I wish all of our mixing problems were so easy to solve! Happy Baking, Terry --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v102.n006.12 --------------- From: ehgf@mindspring.com Subject: Re: Proofing Boxes Date: Tue, 05 Feb 2002 00:54:42 +0800 Hi All, As they say, "there is more than one way to skin a cat", but don't tell Shelby, Crystal and Cobi, our felines, that I said that!!!. When I first started baking bread, I discovered easy ways to create a warm environment for rising dough. The simplest was to just place the covered bowl on the TV cable box. The slight warmth emanating from the box was just right. Of course, I usually had to chase a cat off the box , first, as they coveted that warm surface, too. Placing the bowl over a pilot light would probably work in the same manner. When we got rid of cable, I tried other ways to create the right temperature. I found that putting a mug of water in the microwave and allowing it to heat to a boil, created a warm and moist environment. Once the water boils, I would place the covered bowl of dough in the now turned off microwave oven. Easy and effective for short rises as eventually the warmth subsides. I do not recommend that anyone let their dough rise in the same oven that they are going to bake in. Been there and done that. I once set the oven on low and placed dough within to rise. Unfortunately, I forgot that I had done that and after preheating the oven to bake, I discovered a partially baked blob of dough in a somewhat melted plastic container (and now you know...I am a "little" absent minded). I have also tried "creating" a proofing box. The simplest one is made by placing a heating pad on a low setting upon a table. Place a cooling rack over the pad and your bowl of dough on the rack. Cover all with an overturned box. Enclosing all in an air filled clean plastic garbage bag would probably work, as well. I have also built a box using a styrofoam cooler and light bulb. The set up called for a "reastat" (?). This attachment is crucial as it allows you to dim the bulb to create just the right amount of heat contained within. With the ability to adjust the heat and have a steady source of warmth, it worked very well, especially with some of Ed Wood's sourdough recipes that call for very long, proofing times. Currently, I use a "warming drawer" which was part of a kitchen remodel. I highly recommend having one, if possible. They are useful for keeping food warm especially when entertaining. You have a range of temperature settings from low for proofing to high for keeping food hot so it does double duty. There is a vent which can stay closed to keep in moisture which is good for proofing or keeping fresh baked muffins moist and warm until everyone is awake on Sunday morning. Opening the vent is supposed to release the steam so foods like french fries can stay both crisp and warm. Hope this helps Ellen aka Gormay --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v102.n006.13 --------------- From: "Scullery Maid" Subject: Sheila: Sweet rice flour Date: Mon, 04 Feb 2002 14:25:45 -0600 Sheila, "sweet rice flour" means flour made from short-grain, glutinous rice. Because it's glutinous, it gets very sticky when cooked, not what you'd want for your Dutch Crunch. The Japanese brand Mochiko is a sweet rice flour. Hope this helps... -Mary --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v102.n006.14 --------------- From: "Jerry Ulett" Subject: Sourdough Problem Date: Mon, 04 Feb 2002 14:44:08 -0800 I baked two 1-1/2 pound loaves of sourdough bread yesterday, using an Ed Wood recipe and San Francisco Sourdough starter. The flavor was outstanding, but the loaves, which were raised and baked in a dual Italian bread pan (Chicago Metallic) with perforations, did not produce the kind of texture which I expected. First, they did not raise to the extent which I expected. Perhaps the dough was too dry. Second, although the crust was outstanding, there was a section on the side which tended to open up, rather than crust over. I made cuts in the unbaked crust just before baking them. Does anyone have any advice forme? Jerry Ulett A perfect gentleman: "An accordianist who doesn't play." W.C. Fields --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v102.n006.15 --------------- From: "Bryan Sowers" Subject: I need info on best value/price for ABMs on market currently... Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2002 23:09:38 -0500 I have a B & D machine from about 1995-6. No real complaints except that the bread sticks to the paddle and tears a fair sized hunk out of the bottom of the loaf and that it doesn't have a cool down feature (I survive w'out that ok) It is a vertical pan and does 2 hour quick loaf and 4:10 for wheat bread. Recipes in the book are all real good and it came with a video which was nice for beginners. NOW, 2002, I am about ready to move up to a newer machine - BUT they all seem to be horizontal loaf nowdays... I feel like I'm better off with a hunk out of the bottom of the loaf than with 2 hunks out of the side of a loaf... That's my FIRST question for y'all - Which do you prefer - vertical (1 paddle) or horizontal (2 paddle?) pans?? SECOND: I see that many machines now have 1 hour quick loaf cycles - Is that due to the machine or is it just a matter of adding lots more yeast to a recipe??? THIRD: Any specific brands or models of machines to recommend?? I'd like to stay in price range under about $120.00 and have 1.5 lb capacity (we don't eat it up that fast). Cool down is a real plus I like to make dough to make buns etc. but it takes almost as long to do that as it does to just bake the loaf in the machine - any machines do dough faster w/out requiring mass quantities of yeast?? I was not able to find any web sites with good side by side comparisons of machines SO I figured y'all are the real experts - Can you help me out?? ps, I will be scouting through the recipes here :-) Thanks so much, Lydia --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v102.n006.16 --------------- From: "Ginger" Subject: Re: sweet rice flour Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2002 15:00:15 -0500 Hi Shelia, Sweet rice flour is from a short grain Chinese rice. It is sometimes called glutinous rice flour or sticky rice flour. I doubt that you would just happen to pick up that kind at your local store. I purchase my sweet rice flour at a Chinese grocery. More likely you would find what I have seen labeled as " rice flour". The sweet rice flour is always labeled as such. Hope that helped, Ginger There's no credit to cooking for people that........ .......... actually like TV dinners !!!!!!!!! --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v102.n006.17 --------------- From: Reggie Dwork Subject: King Arthur Classes in TX Date: Thu, 07 Feb 2002 12:08:33 -0800 SWEET DOUGH DEMONSTRATION Understand the basic how-to's of yeast, kneading, and rising. Become familiar with fillings and toppings for sweet doughs. Watch shaping techniques for fanciful loaves: twists, braids, and pull-aparts. ARTISAN BREAD DEMONSTRATION Understand the how-to's of yeast, kneading, and rising. Gain insight into starters, sponges, and pre-ferments. Learn both traditional and bread machine methods. Observe shaping techniques for boules, baguettes, epis, and decorative presentation breads. Discover how to get a crisp crust and chewy interior. Become familiar with baking stones, bannetons, couches, and slashing techniques. Each demonstration lasts 2 hours, is free of charge, and includes a free recipe booklet, yeast packet and door prizes. For specific locations and times of classes in Texas and for our complete spring schedule ... Here is the website for their class list ...http://ww3.kingarthurflour.com/cgibin/htmlos/02135.2.1997958796858389395 --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v102.n006.18 --------------- From: "Don Bischoff" Subject: I need advice.... again Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2002 13:32:04 -0600 Hi all, A little over a year ago my KA mixer stripped its little gears and I came to this group for advice regarding a new heavy duty replacement unit (Preferably not KA). The responses were overwhelming. The recommendations were divided among three brands. Magic Mill DLX, Bosch and Kenwood KM800. Since that time, I was able to repair the KA myself and that gave some time to study the market a little more closely. Well, the old KA is starting to get a little grumpy again and it's only a matter of time before I'm replacing the gears once more. A job, by the way, that is a big pain in the butt. After much deliberation, I have boiled it down to two units. The Kenwood and the Bosch. Unfortunately, I had to eliminate the DLX because of its huge capacity. I understand it doesn't do well with single loaf (3 cup) recipes and usually I make one or two loaves at a time yet occasionally I would like to make three or four. I pretty much know what the Kenwood will do because it's a rotary mixer similar to the KA but sturdy. What I really need is more information about the Bosch. I keep going back to websites and looking at that unit, and the more I look the better it keeps looking to me. Hopefully all you Bosch owners will throw in your two bits worth, give me some opinions and answer some questions for me. 1. Bosch makes four units. The Universal, the Concept7, the Comfort and the Compact. The Universal and the Concept7 look most appropriate to me. Which one would you recommend? 2. Is the Concept7 worth the extra $$$$ over the Universal? 3. Is there any justification for paying $100 extra for the stainless bowl option? 4. Are the attachments good pieces of equipment? 5. Does the Bosch handle small recipes as I'm led to believe it will? 6. Can cakes and cookies be successfully made with the Bosch? 7. Does the Bosch knead dough as efficiently and thoroughly as the advertising claims. 8. I've heard that the Bosch has a tendency to walk around the counter. Is this fact or fiction and is it a problem for you? I certainly would appreciate any and all information you can give me regarding this unit. I need to make a change muy pronto. Thank you very much. Don Bischoff E-mail Address: TaktEZ@earthlink.net --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v102.n006.19 --------------- From: Brianjwoody@aol.com Subject: Re: Digest bread-bakers.v102.n005 Date: Sat, 2 Feb 2002 04:54:56 EST This idea originated with Ed Wood In his book "World Sourdoughs From Antiquity". He includes instructions for making the box, and lots of advice on 'nurturing' the starter. He has an updated book now, out recently - a good read. Brian --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v102.n006.20 --------------- From: "Jack Hill" Subject: Crushed Rye Date: Sat, 2 Feb 2002 05:50:37 -0600 Can anyone help me in locating Crushed Rye to purchase? I live near Houston, but am at the point where I will buy it from anywhere. I would make my own in my Vita Mix, if I could find the rye berries, but do not know what it is supposed to look like. You can email me directly at starb@wt.net if you like. Thank you. Star Hill --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v102.n006.21 --------------- From: "Carol S. Henry" Subject: Proofing Box Date: Sat, 2 Feb 2002 08:33:47 -0500 I use the oven on my electric stove as a proofing box. For bread dough I turn the oven light on when I make the dough, and on really cold days only, preheat the oven at its lowest setting for a 10 to 30 seconds, depending on the warmth of my kitchen, then turn the oven off, and slip the dough inside. The heat from the light keeps all at a perfect temperature for raising dough. When I put my sourdough starter to work, the night before using it I add the water and flour, mix it, cover the casserole and pop it into a cool oven, turn the oven light on and let it sit there overnight. ( I learned the hard way to ALWAYS tape a small note to the oven control as a reminder that there is sourdough inside.) The next morning, the starter is always alive and ready to be used. I have been doing this since about 1965 and am still working from my original starter given me by a friend. I feel sad thinking of children growing up eating frozen prepared pancakes and waffles and store bread. --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v102.n006.22 --------------- From: Gonzo White Subject: vicki's disappearing teflon Date: Sat, 02 Feb 2002 07:45:12 -0600 Vicki... One question you didn't answer was do you wash your pans? If so that could be why your Teflon is disappearing. You are scrubbing it off. I never wash my pans. I just shake the bread out, if using it to make dough I wait until the next day when anything left behind dries and just gently wipe the pan out. The pans stay nice and clean. The nuts and seeds might be doing the damage especially if you use a stiff dough. Try adding a bit more liquid in your nut and seed breads. Gonzo --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v102.n006.23 --------------- From: "James Thompson" Subject: Kitchen Aid Paddle Date: Sat, 2 Feb 2002 11:42:35 -0500 I have a KA and my paddle also chipped . What I did was sand the area and applied Doro Appliance Touch Up.I haven,t had any more problems. You can get it at a hardware type store. Good Luck ! LAURA --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v102.n006.24 --------------- From: Andie Paysinger Subject: KA mixer paddles Date: Sat, 02 Feb 2002 08:45:55 -0800 One of my KA mixers is 35 years old and has a plain metal hook and paddle. The finish on the cast aluminum is still the way it was the day I took it out of the box. The newer one has the white coated hook and paddle and I also purchased the "new" rounded hook a year or so ago, also coated. The paddle has a few chips in it, not from mixing but from being dropped in the sink, etc. I have never noticed any of the coating coming off into the food and I use the mixer constantly. Storing the paddle and hook in a drawer with other utensils or in the bowl of themixer is not a good idea, hang them up if you can find a spot. My 20 quart Hobart mixer has plain cast aluminum paddles and hook and there is no problem with using them in acidic materials because one is not going to leave them in there long enough for the aluminum to be affected. If you are worried about the coating you can look for one of the cast aluminum paddles from the older machines. I found one at an appliance repair shop - someone had taken in an old mixer which could not be repaired and just left it there along with the paddle which I bought for $5.00. I have also seen them come up on ebay from time to time. Andie Paysinger --------------- END bread-bakers.v102.n006 --------------- Copyright (c) 1996-2002 Regina Dwork and Jeffrey Dwork All Rights Reserved