Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2002 20:58:33 -0700 (MST) -------------- BEGIN bread-bakers.v102.n004 -------------- 001 - Roxanne Rieske Subject: Introduction and a few replys Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2002 13:31:29 -0700 Hello! I'm new to this list, and want'd to say hi to everyone. My name's Roxanne and I'm a professional baker. I work for a Scandinavian bakery in the Denver area. My specialities are pies and breads. Has anyone ever baked a pie in a hearth oven? I am yearning to do that, but as yet have no access to an hearth oven. I can just imagine what it would do for a fruit pie. At any rate, I would like to reply to a few things :) Carolyn wrote: ">Yes, you COULD proof a rustic loaf in a cheap China-made basket lined with > unwashable fabric of unknown origin, or line an ordinary bowl with a > linen dish towel, but it won't be the same. Technically it is the same. The results are usually the same. Most bakeries (artisian or not) can't afford to spend the money required to buy 30+ of these basket for their operations (take my word for it, owning and operating a bakery does not make you alot of money). Their only options are the alternatives. I bet you almost all the bakeries in your area producing these breads are using mostly cheap cost-plus baskets. I mean, really, 25 dollars or a buck a piece? To a bakery operator the cost difference means a lot. You do the math. To a home baker, the cost may not mean much. And if it doesn't, then by all means buy as many baskets as you want. But when you can't afford the cash, you use what you can. Me? well I'd rather spend the buck on the basket and spend the real money on the flour. Which is what really makes the difference. Shirley Lipscomb wrote: "I am in search of a recipe for dutch crunch bread" I'm really fond of Peter Rheinhart's Dutch Crunch recipe. It's in the "Bread Baker's Apprentice." Unfortunately, my copy is at the bakery, so I can't post it. Perhaps someone will post it soonfor you? Irene wrote: "My starter did well the first 36 hours, then fell, not to be revived the next day. What did I do wrong? Can I still save it?" Sounds like a case of too much yeast and not enough food. If you can't revive it, it's probably dead by now. If you are doing a wild yeast starter, once the yeast are captured and they start feeding, it's a really good idea to feed the starter every 8 hrs during the first 48 hour period. This ensures an active colony. Leave it at room temperature while it's colonizing. Once it's active refrigerate it and feed it every 3 to 5 days. After feeding it, leave at room temperature till it starts to get bubbly, then put it back in the fridge. If you have questions on the proper way to feed it, feel free to e-mail me If you are making a starter from commercial yeast, it's a good idea to use SAF Gold yeast. This is a special strand of yeast cultivated for acidic environments. Starters are acidic and the typical strand of yeast (S. cervasai-I know I spelled that wrong) will die in highly acidic environments. When using a commercial yeast, I ferment the starter at room temp until bubbly, feed it and then pop it in the fridge overnight. I'll feed it the next day and then feed it every 3 days from there. I hope all this information helps :) Roxanne, The Nutty Baker -- "they say you're only half alive till you give extra whitening a try" --jewel "an angels face is tricky to wear constantly" --purple people "you don't have to like me for who I am, but we'll see what you're made of by what you make of me" --ani --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v102.n004.2 --------------- From: "Max Prola" Subject: Re: proofing baskets Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2002 13:49:43 -0000 I also have made my own baskets as described in several recent postings. I use wheat flour to prevent sticking and found it unnecesary after a few usings. I store the baskets in large plastic shopping bags. Instead of plastic wrap to cover the loaves, I use (and re-use) a shower cap, preferably of the cheaper, thinner variety which is more flexible and can be obtained free of charge in most hotels. Best wishes, Max Prola Cheshire, England --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v102.n004.3 --------------- From: Rosemary Moore Subject: re: bannetons, brotforms, etc. Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2002 11:33:25 -0500 According to Maggie Glezer in her Artisan Breadbaking across America (p.10), the Della Fattoria bakery uses plastic tortilla chip baskets as bannetons. You can get them at restaurant supply stores. She says that the baskets are "just as nonstick and even easier to care for than the imported baskets." On the other hand, if you really want the imported baskets, why not get them? I'm in grad school now, so I use mixing bowls lined with heavy linen. But I wouldn't turn down the more expensive ones as a gift! Rosemary Moore --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v102.n004.4 --------------- From: Brianjwoody@aol.com Subject: Re: Digest bread-bakers.v102.n002 Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2002 07:56:04 EST Carolyn wrote: > With all due respect, the recent posts about banneton include too much > whining about the relative cost of these special dough-rising baskets. > ... > Yes, you COULD proof a rustic loaf in a cheap China-made basket lined > with unwashable fabric of unknown origin, or line an ordinary bowl with > a linen dish towel, but it won't be the same. The characteristic imprint > made by the beautiful craftsmanship of an Austrian-made brotformen cannot > be duplicated by these cut-rate means. You get what you pay for! > ... That would be a good argument if it were not normal to buy stuff exported to America, from England say (made there too|!), and buy it in US at 60% of the price. Look at CDs if you don't believe me. I have bought German stuff, clearly marked "made in Germany" in the US at nearly half the price in Germany, ditto France. The fair price yes. Regards, Brian --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v102.n004.5 --------------- From: qoe@us.inter.net Subject: Re: anyone baking? Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 19:17:57 -0800 Well, I finally quit reading and rereading Peter Reinhart's new book. I just love it. I baked once again the Potato Rosemary bread. This is the recipe I tested for him and it's wonderful. It says the roasted garlic is optional, but I think it's a necessity! Do make this recipe you'll be glad you went to all the effort. I purposely froze leftover mashed potatoes, so I'd have them for making this recipe. Regards, Lynne --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v102.n004.6 --------------- From: Nifcon@aol.com Subject: Pedro - yeast Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2002 13:04:40 EST Pedro I couldn't agree more with your attitude to yeast because it's identical to mine. It's far too easy to get hung up on different kinds of yeast and all too common for bakers to blame a failed bread on the yeast when the fault lies in their technique. As for quantities, I measure in grams for yeast but that's just because I weigh everything routinely. If I put a little too much yeast on the scale then I don't worry because the difference in the finished bread produced by 10 - 20 % variation in the yeast quantity is negligible. I occasionally buy packages of compressed live yeast from a local store and the packages are just lumps off a brick of yeast, clingfilmed with the weight on the price label. If a recipe calls for 25 grams yeast and the package weighs 30 grams, do I cut 1/6 off the lump of yeast? Of course not! I just use the 30 grams with no fear of derailing the bread. Born to be wild that's me! I've banged on about this before but I think there is a tendency on the part of some cooks to rely too much on the recipe and not trust their own judgement and taste. We've all seen recipes which specify every ingredient down to the last 1/16 teaspoon and do we trust them because of their exactness? The "Yeast Debate" reminds me of the "All-purpose Flour vs Bread Flour" argument , the "Grams or Cups" squabble, the "Metal Pans vs Glass Pans" skirmish, the "Sourdough vs Commercial Yeast" battle, the "Pizza Stones vs Quarry Tiles" campaign and the "Mixer vs ABM" war. All good wrangling fun but often irrelevant to daily bread making and very confusing to a beginner. John Wright Yorkshire, England (Any other Yorkshires in the world?) "That which does not kill us makes us stronger" --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v102.n004.7 --------------- From: ehgf@mindspring.com Subject: Sally Lunn, Bread Baskets and Wood Fired Ovens Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2002 03:28:03 +0800 Hi All, Recently there have been posts explaining the derivation of Sally Lunn bread. Most have cited that this bread may have been named for a woman called Sally Lunn who sold these cakes. I don't recall seeing the other explanation which I find more credible. Sally Lunn is believed, by some, to be a corruption of the French "soleil et lune" or "sun and moon" which was the name of a similar yeasted cake. Just as we have corrupted the "croissant" into a "crescent roll", I can imagine that the English corrupted the name of a bread that they admired and adopted for their own. As to the bread basket business, here is my take. There are baskets and there are baskets. I have only used the baskets that I purchased at SFBI years ago while taking classes there. They were so much less money than from KA and I didn't have to pay for shipping either. SFBI also sold couche material and non stick, reusable baking liner by the yard which was very cost effective. I am sure that you can use other types of baskets and cloth (you want something that will not shed or stick to your dough, however). I am glad that I spent the money for these baskets and I don't think the price has changed much over the years. I like using "professional" type equipment. These are made to last and are time tested, guaranteeing results. Besides, to this bread baker, they are a thing of beauty that sets them apart from any other type of basket. I believe that they can be useful for any free form bread. One doesn't always know if a proofing dough needs that extra support. When using a basket, one doesn't have to guess. I usually don't line my baskets with couche linen as I love the look of the pattern the basket leaves on the bread. I have found an easy way to evenly coat the inside of the basket to prevent sticking. If your dough sticks, unmolding will deflate it, destroying all your hard work. Dip a small strainer into the flour of your choice and then gently shake strainer over basket sifting the flour in an even manner. A fairly thick coating is best as too little flour will allow the dough to stick and too much flour will harmlessly stay in the basket ready to be tapped out later. I am thinking of building an adobe oven using the Sunset Magazine's(Aug '98) instructions. I am also reading "The Bread Buillders" by Daniel Wing and Alan Scott and "Build Your Own Earth Oven" by Kiko Denzer to help me plan and design this oven. I reasoned that Sunset's "weekend" project would be the easiest and cheapest to build and would allow me to see if the bread tastes better or if baking this way is worth the trouble. If I loved the results, the oven could be easily broken apart and a more permanent, brick oven could take it's place. I'd like to hear from my fellow forum members any thoughts or experiences they have had with building, baking, and care taking of wood burning ovens. TIA Ellen aka Gormay --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v102.n004.8 --------------- From: Paul and Ruth Provance Subject: Dutch Crunch Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2002 14:50:38 -0500 To find some more recipes for Dutch Crunch Bread, go to the archives for this list. You will find the link to the website at the bottom of the digest. Type in "Dutch Crunch" under "Search," and there you go! I found five different digests listed that had recipes, not counting the one in 1991 with a question like yours. Have fun! Ruth --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v102.n004.9 --------------- From: "Lee Karam" Subject: Re: B&D bread machine Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2002 17:06:42 -0600 Gene, I bought B&D bread machine less than a year ago. With their instruction/recipe booklet they gave following 2 phone numbers for help: Canada 1-800-465-6070 US 1-800-231-9786 Lee --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v102.n004.10 --------------- From: Alexgejp@aol.com Subject: Yeast question Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2002 19:16:45 EST I received a Better Homes and Gardens Best Bread Machine Recipes cookbook for Christmas. With only a couple of exceptions, all the recipes for 1 1/2 lb. loaves call for only 1 teaspoon of yeast. This seems such a small amount of yeast since all the recipes that I usually cook call for 2 to 2 1/2 teaspoons of yeast. I would appreciate anyone who has cooked recipes (even one) from this book writing to let me know their results. TIA. Joy Alexander --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v102.n004.11 --------------- From: Melissa A Uttendorfsky Subject: KA Mixers Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2002 19:55:16 -0500 I have been following the posts on the KA mixers and wondered if anyone else has had a similar problem. I got my KA almost 13 years ago when I got married and now the coating on the mixing paddle is coming off. My mixing paddle and dough hook are both coated in white paint or some other coating to match the mixer color (I guess). Has anyone else had this happen? Is it time to find a new mixer? Should I contact KA about the problem? Any suggestions appreciated. Melissa --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v102.n004.12 --------------- From: Thomas Brown Subject: regarding bannetons- Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2002 11:18:55 -0500 Hello everyone from here in Virginia! I have been following the equipment discussions with even more interest than the recipes! But I do agree with Pedro about 'cheating' on the yeast amount! oops - there goes my license too! Regarding bannetons - I am a little puzzled - having never used one. I get the impression from the posts that they do not go in the oven; the bread is only 'proofed' for its' final rising, and removed -placed on a baking sheet(?) for the 'heat treatment'.. I am confident that if I tried to removed a proofed/risen loaf from a basket, it would be quite flat/un-risen by the time I got it to the oven. My levitation skills are not what they need to be to accomplish this! Can someone that knows about using these baskets enlighten me how not to turn every loaf into pizza? tom --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v102.n004.13 --------------- From: Reggie Dwork Subject: bread class Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 14:16:28 -0800 There is a wonderful sounding class at Sur La Table, Los Gatos, CA ... Making Indian Breads at Home A Hands-On-Class Ruta Kahate http://www.surlatable.com/cooking/pdfs/02WS_Los_Gatos.pdf You need Adobe Acrobat Reader to view this file. Reggie --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v102.n004.14 --------------- From: Kathleen Subject: Walnut Raisin Bread Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 06:08:37 -0500 I don't know why this recipe has pepper in the ingredient list. I suspect that the pepper prevents it from having a sweet taste. Well, I was suspicious of it as an ingredient and only added half the pepper. It leaves a very slightly warm feeling on the tongue. I husband, being a chile head and probably having burnt out taste buds, could not taste it. We like the bread, but, personally, I would have preferred cinnamon to black pepper. kathleen * Exported from MasterCook * Walnut Raisin Bread Recipe By : Moosewood Restaurant New Classics, page 403 Serving Size : 1 Preparation Time :0:00 Categories : Breads Fruits Grains And Cereals *Breads Amount Measure Ingredient -- Preparation Method -------- ------------ -------------------------------- 1 cup warm milk 1 cup warm water 2 packages dry yeast 3 tablespoons sugar 3 tablespoons vegetable oil or butter at room temperature 2 teaspoons salt 2 teaspoons coarsely ground black pepper 2 cups whole wheat flour 1/2 cup cornmeal 2 cups unbleached white flour -- up to 3 1 cup chopped walnuts 1 1/2 cups raisins Yields two 9-inch round loaves. Prep and kneading time: 35 minutes. Rising time: about 2 1/2 hours. Baking about 30 minutes A loaf of Walnut-Raisin Whole Wheat Bread from Bittersweet Baking in Jacksonville, Vermont, made its way to Ithaca with Patti Harville, the sister of Moosewood cooks Susan Harville and Nancy Lazarus. Nancy loved the bread so much that she called Janet McGrath in Vermont to ask for the recipe. We made some adjustments to accommodate home baking, and we thank Janet for graciously sharing her expertise. In a large bowl, combine the milk, water, yeast, and 1 tablespoon of the sugar until the yeast dissolves. Set aside in a warm place until the yeast foams, about 10 minutes. With a large spoon, mix in the remaining sugar, the oil or butter, salt, pepper, whole wheat flour, and cornmeal. Vigorously stir in 2 to 3 cups of white flour, one cup at a time, until a soft ball forms. Turn the dough out onto a lightly floured board and knead for about 10 minutes, adding more flour as needed to prevent sticking. Add the walnuts and raisins to the dough and knead until well incorporated and evenly distributed, about 3 minutes. Place the dough in a large oiled bowl, cover with a clean, damp cloth, and set in a warm place to rise until doubled in size, about 1 to 1 1/2 hours. Punch down the dough, and divide it into halves. Press each half into a buttered 9-inch round cake pan. Set in a warm place to rise until doubled, about 1/2 to 1 hour Preheat the oven to 350F. Then bake for about 30 minutes, until golden on top and hollow-sounding when tapped on the bottom. Cool on a rack. PER 1-OUNCE SERVING: CALORIES, 2.4 G PROTEIN, 2.8 G FAT, 13.8 G CARBOHYDRATES, 0.5 G SATURATED FATTY ACIDS, 0.4 MG CHOLESTEROL, 103.2 MG SODIUM, 1.4 G TOTAL DIETARY FIBER --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v102.n004.15 --------------- From: Renee & Aaron Subject: Looking for a proofing box Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 10:35:58 -0800 Hi, I am looking for a small (not a cabinet) proofing box to use for one or two loaves to use at home. Any suggestins where I might purhase one? Thank-you Renee Chandler -- --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v102.n004.16 --------------- From: Kathleen Subject: Three Seed Whole Wheat Rolls Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 06:10:19 -0500 This is a very nice roll recipe. I've made it several times in the last few weeks. It only makes a dozen or so, so is perfect if you are looking for a whole grain type roll in small quantity. * Exported from MasterCook * Three Seed Whole Wheat Rolls Recipe By : Moosewood Restaurant New Classics, page 401 Serving Size : 12 Preparation Time :0:00 Categories : Breads Buns And Rolls *Breads Amount Measure Ingredient -- Preparation Method -------- ------------ -------------------------------- 1 tablespoon dry yeast 1/4 cup warm water -- (105F to 115F) 1 tablespoon sugar 3/4 cup milk 1/4 cup vegetable oil 1 teaspoon salt 1 cup whole wheat bread flour 1 1/4 cups unbleached white flour 1/4 cup sunflower seeds 1 tablespoon poppy seeds 1 tablespoon sesame seeds Yields 12 rolls. Preparation time: 25 minutes. Rising time: 30 to 40 minutes. Baking time: 15 to 20 minutes What could be better than fresh bread, warm from the oven, for a dinner party or an everyday family meal? These rolls are jeweled with poppy, sunflower, and sesame seeds, which add nutrition and attractiveness, but they can be made with fewer kinds of seeds. We suggest always using sunflower seeds, however, which are particularly nice because of their crunch. Lightly oil a baking sheet. In a small bowl, mix the yeast, warm water, and sugar and set aside to proof. In a small pan, warm the milk, oil, and salt to between 105F and 115F and then transfer to a large bowl. When the yeast has dissolved and is foamy, add it to the milk mixture. Add the whole wheat and white flours and the sunflower, poppy and sesame seeds and mix well. Turn the dough out onto a floured surface and knead for 5 to 10 minutes, until smooth and elastic, adding more flour as necessary. Divide into 12 equal pieces and roll into balls. Place the balls of dough a couple of inches apart on the prepared baking sheet. Cover with a clean, damp towel and put in a warm place for 30 to 40 minutes, until almost doubled in size. When rising is almost complete, preheat the oven to 400F. Bake the rolls for 12 to 15 minutes, until golden brown. Cool on a rack. PER 1.8-OUNCE SERVING: 152 CALORIES, 4.1 G PROTEIN, 7.2 G FAT, 18.7 G CARBOHYDRATES, 1.7 G SATURATED FATTY ACIDS, 1.1 MG CHOLESTEROL, 206.2 MG SODIUM, 2 G TOTAL DIETARY FIBER --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v102.n004.17 --------------- From: "C T Skoumbourdis" Subject: Yeastless lavash bread? Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2002 15:17:42 -0600 My wife and I are interested in making yeastless lavash bread but find no suitable recipes. Would appreciate a recipe. Thanks, Constantine and Tatiana Skoumbourdis 1859 Carefree Lane Booneville, AR 72927 --------------- END bread-bakers.v102.n004 --------------- Copyright (c) 1996-2002 Regina Dwork and Jeffrey Dwork All Rights Reserved