Date: Sun, 19 Dec 1999 00:08:53 -0800 (PST) -------------- BEGIN bread-bakers.v099.n067 -------------- 001 - Benjamin Strong Subject: Zojirushi Swap Date: Mon, 13 Dec 1999 14:49:56 -0600 Thanks to this great list I have made the swap that I wanted and, in addition, made a new friend. Merry Christmas and a Happy New year to all and especially Diana, my 'swapee'. --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v099.n067.2 --------------- From: JSNCOOKS@aol.com Subject: Pandoro Date: Wed, 15 Dec 1999 09:24:05 EST Hi, I'm a novice E-mailer, so I hope this works. I noticed that someone was looking for info on Pandoro. The Italian Baker by Carol Field has a recipe that sounds like what is being sought. Good luck. Judy Nelson --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v099.n067.3 --------------- From: indianabob Subject: Flour Date: Sat, 11 Dec 1999 15:22:11 -0600 my all time favorite is a flour called Five Rosesbud not available to many, next best alternative is Gordons Food service has a brand called bay city, type called bouncer for $5.60 for 25 lbs, an excellent bread flour. indianabob --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v099.n067.4 --------------- From: "Ruben or Tamera Yoakum" Subject: Jalepeno Bread Date: Sat, 11 Dec 1999 14:18:23 -0600 Hello! First let me thank those who responded to my request for recipes for Rosemary Bread. Now I am looking for a recipe for making good old fashion Jalepeno Cheese bread. I recently visited a family owned restaurant and it was there that I tasted the bread. I do not have a bread machine so I am looking for a recipe to make by hand. Tamera --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v099.n067.5 --------------- From: Epwerth15@aol.com Subject: KitchenAid vs Cuisinart, etc Date: Sun, 12 Dec 1999 15:35:02 EST I, too was not happy with the bread kneading process in my KitchenAid mixer, and the Cuisinart won't mix a big enough batch for me. Last year I was fortunate enough to find a Kenwood (from England) that was being discontinued (it's only a 5 qt)and was able to but it for next to nothing. I use that almost exclusively now for breads, and my KA for everything else. The Kenwood does a wonderful job of kneading, but it's extremely noisy at higher speeds. Evelyn --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v099.n067.6 --------------- From: Epwerth15@aol.com Subject: Heather's 50# bags of flour Date: Sun, 12 Dec 1999 15:29:25 EST I,too, do a lot of baking at home, but cannot meet the minimum order from a restaurant or bakery supply house. I've found that the wholesale clubs such as Sam's Club, Wal-Mart, or Costco has large bags of flour at or near the price ot the supply houses. Another alternative would be to on a local bakery's order. See if you can find one that will order a bag when they place their orders, (they usually order at least once a week, if nor more often,) Evelyn Werthmann --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v099.n067.7 --------------- From: indianabob Subject: onion beer rye Date: Sat, 11 Dec 1999 15:26:48 -0600 for the poolish = nite before one bottle beer (dark, stout, porter) add water to make 2 1/3 cup 2 1/4 tsp yeast 1 pkg onion soup mix 2 cups rye flour mix and cover nextday add to poolish 1 cup clear flour 2 T olive oil 1 egg 1 T molassas (or honey or sugar) 1 1/2 T carroway seed 1 tsp yeast 1 tsp diastatic malt 1 tsp deli rye powdeer 1 tsp salt approx 4 cups hard wheat bread flour mix well , knead, and rise punch shape and proof wash with egg wash slash loaves sprinkle with charnitzka (black carroway) bake 400 preheated oven to 200 internal or about 40 min --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v099.n067.8 --------------- From: MBills@aol.com Subject: Re: Hand vs. machine kneading Date: Sun, 12 Dec 1999 16:37:52 EST In a message dated 12/11/1999 7:17:59 AM Eastern Standard Time, bread-bakers-errors@lists.best.com writes: << and anyway, I LIKE kneading bread. >> It is such a great way to get out frustration isn't it :) I know that when my husband gets home from work and I'm kneading.... he turns and runs because he knows it's been a bad day! :) "Uh-oh, Mommy's kneading!" Of course, if I'm kneading because I just want a loaf of bread.... :) I use my KA for mixing up the dough, but then pull it out for kneading. I don't think there's any better way to do it except by hand. Have a great day! Maureen --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v099.n067.9 --------------- From: "Mary and Craig" Subject: Need source for WW bread flour Date: Sun, 12 Dec 1999 18:18:18 -0800 Hello bakers, I've been enjoying your posts for months and now have a question--can anyone recommend a good source for whole wheat bread flour? Ideally organic and finely ground rather than stone ground but ANY info welcome. I was using (and still love) organic WW bread flour from Walnut Acres in PA, but they now only sell it in 2 lb bags which is too expensive for frequent baking. In the meantime I've been using various mixtures of the KA flours--white wheat, stone ground, bread machine special, etc, with only ok results. I don't have a machine and I like to bake the long rising 100% whole wheat recipes in the Laurel's Kitchen Bread Book. Thanks so much! Maryann in VA --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v099.n067.10 --------------- From: Raymond Kenyon Subject: KA Date: Sat, 11 Dec 1999 13:08:08 -0600 I bought a KA to make bread. It wouldn't work even with the recipe in their cookbook. The motor started burning. Their customer service represetative blamed me. After some discusion she admitted that they had tolerances on their motors. I told her I wanted one on the plus tolerance, that would perform up to their advertised standards. They picked up my KA, and sent me a new one which works perfectly. I mentioned this to someone else who had the same problem. The called, asked for an exchange to a plus tolerance mixer, and also have a new mixer that is fine for bread. I notice that many of the submitted recipes come from MasterCook. There are several books by this title. Can I get more information please. --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v099.n067.11 --------------- From: Ritterhaus@aol.com Subject: Sam's flour Date: Fri, 17 Dec 1999 16:40:11 EST I have used the Sam's flour - at 6200 feet elevation in Colorado and did not notice any difference between it and Gold Medal Better for Bread. Haven't checked it out lately, but our stores periodically have Gold Medal for unheard of prices - last week I paid only 69 cents for a 5# bag. Most of the time it is on sale for 79 cents, and this negates going after a larger bag at Sam's. Besides, Sam's will no longer honor my senior card after the first of the year, so guess they won't have the pleasure of my business anymore as I can't afford to pay their membership fee for the few things I always buy there. I usually have 10 bags (50#) or so of flour in a tight lidded plastic container in the garage where it is always cool in summer and cold in winter and have never lost any flour to bugs - or mice. Jean --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v099.n067.12 --------------- From: Lobo Subject: Kitchen Aide vs. Cuisinart vs. Hand kneading Date: Sat, 11 Dec 1999 21:54:39 -0700 Frank writes: >what I should do to be more consistently successful with the KA. I hope >they offer their responses, because I'm interested to hear them. Right now >I use my KA for cakes and cookie mixes and making meringues. I bought a KA about 4 years ago because age was creeping in and kneading bread made my hands and wrists sore. I bake 4 loaves at a time and soon learned that I couldn't knead them in the KA all at once. I mix up the liquid ingredients, shortening, salt, sugar and a portion of the flour in the KA. Then I pour out half of it, add flour and let the KA knead the remaining portion. That then goes into a big bowl, the other half goes into the KA to get its flour and kneading. Kind of a pain and you get an extra bowl dirty, but it works. Two loaves is definitely the limit and sometimes they "creep" up the shaft if they're on the big side. --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v099.n067.13 --------------- From: "Jazzbel" Subject: Re: Digest bread-bakers.v099.n066 Date: Sat, 11 Dec 1999 18:59:37 -0500 > From: Jack Elliott > In seeking a larger than 5 lb. bag of bread flour I find the local Sam's > Club offers a 25 lb. bag. It is labeled as Bread Flour, however it is > also bleached and enriched. The protein content seems to me to be low, > sorry I do not recall the precise number. Is this a suitable flour for > home baking? > No self-respecting bread flour should have less than 12% protein content. I, too have seen "bread flour" or "baker's flour" with low protein content. US National brands all-purpose flour usually have 11% protein content and work well for bread, except you may need to use enhancers for certain recipes. I only bake with Canadian flour, which is 12% for all-purpose and 14% for bread flour, both treated with vitamin (important bread enhancer). Later, Jazzbel >>>>> "A gourmet who thinks of calories is like a tart who looks at her watch". --James Beard. --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v099.n067.14 --------------- From: Tammie Subject: 100% Whole Wheat Bread Date: 11 Dec 99 13:25:21 EST Hi Everyone, This is my first time posting to the list. Someone requested a whole wheat bread recipe. I've had this recipe for almost 20 years and it was my first attempt at bread baking. It was from McCall's Magazine Cooking School (anyone remember that?) and makes a wonderful loaf of bread. 100% Whole Wheat Bread McCall's September 1980 2 cups milk 1/2 cup light-brown sugar, packed 1 TBS salt 1/4 cup butter 1 cup warm water (105-115) 2 pkg. active dry yeast 8 cups unsifted whole-wheat flour All-purpose white flour 3 TBS butter, melted In saucepan, heat milk till bubbles form around edge of pan; remove from heat. Add sugar, salt, and 1/4 cup of butter; stir until butter melts; cool to lukewarm. If possible check temperature of water with thermometer. Sprinkle yeast over water in large bowl. Stir to dissolve yeast; stir in the lukewar milk mixture. Add 4 cups whole-wheat flour; beat vigorously with wooden spoon until smooth. Gradually add rest of whole-wheat flour; mix in last of it with hand until dough is stiff enough to leave side of bowl. Turn dough out on lightly floured pastry cloth. Knead until dough is smooth and elastic--5 minutes. Place in lightly greased large bowl; turn dough to bring up greased side. Cover with towel; let rise in warm place (85), draft free, until doubled--1 hour. Again, turn dougn on cloth. Halve, let rest, covered, 10 minutes. Cut each halve into two. With palms, roll each part into a 12-inch strip. Twist two strips together three times; press ends even; pinch ends to seal. Place in greased 9x5x23/4 inch pan. Brush surface with a little melted butter. Repeat with other half. Let loaves rise in warm place, free from drafts, until sides come to the top of pans and tops are rounded--1 hour. Place rack in middle of oven. Preheat oven to 400F. Bake 35-40 minutes. Crust will be a deep golden-brown and loaves will sound hollow when tapped. (If crust is too brown after baking 25 minutes, cover with foil or brown paper.) Turn out of pans onto racks; brush tops with melted butter. Serve warm or cold. Makes 2 loaves. --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v099.n067.15 --------------- From: "Pua-Mai-'I-Mai Young" Subject: Bread flour/bulk flour/cookbook recommendations Date: Sat, 11 Dec 1999 17:44:10 -0600 Jack Elliott wrote: > In seeking a larger than 5 lb. bag of bread flour I find the local Sam's >Club offers a 25 lb. bag. It is labeled as Bread Flour, however it is >also bleached and enriched. The protein content seems to me to be low, >sorry I do not recall the precise number. Is this a suitable flour for >home baking? And then Heather Sarsfield wrote: >...I would love to be able to >buy good flour for a fairly cheap price in 25-50 lb bags. I have looked >into restaurant distributors, but it seems with most of those you have to >buy in very large quantities. The most I would get at one time would be 100 >lbs. I am looking for just general all purpose white flour that is not >bleached (like King Arthur). I would also want it to be good for breads, >for I am baking my own exclusively instead of buying from the store. I buy my bread flour in 25 lb. bags from my local Costco. It could even be the same brand Jack found at Sam's Club. While I'm a newbie at bread baking and so far haven't left the safety of my wonderful Oster machine, I've made delicious breads with the flour and I'm very satisfied with the results. Heather, if there's a club store in your area, you may want to check it out. Or you may want to inquire at a local health food store. You may be able to buy in bulk there in quantities less than 100 lbs. That's where I buy all my bulk miscellaneous ingredients, from stoneground whole wheat flour to granola to spices, especially dill -- it costs about 1/20 the grocery store price in the little jar! Andie Paysinger wrote: >My mother owned a bakery in a little town in Wisconsin and most of the >people in the area were of German extraction so we made German-type breads, >water rolls (hard rolls). Having just visited the New Glarus, WI Swiss bakery on Thursday, I certainly appreciated your post! A couple weeks ago there were some requests for good bread cookbooks. I'd like to add The Bread Machine Cookbook series by Donna Rathmell German. There are at least six volumes in this paperback series, which are easy to spot on the bookstore shelf because they're half-height. I have three of the books and I've had a wonderful time going through and testing various recipes. I've certainly never had any complaints from my coworkers, who are my taste testers/guinea pigs. Thanks to everyone for making this such an informative and friendly list. Melinda _________________________________________________________________________ Melinda Young http://www.the-waterfall.com/ melinda@the-waterfall.com --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v099.n067.16 --------------- From: Blanche007@aol.com Subject: Pumpernickel Bread Date: Mon, 13 Dec 1999 11:06:19 EST >------------ MESSAGE bread-bakers.v099.n066.4 --------------- > >From: mary hettich >Subject: rye bread >Date: 5 Dec 99 14:04:06 EST >i have a problem for the ever friendly baker folks. i have tried upwards of 50 >rye bread recipes, and have yet to find bread like you get in a NY kosher >deli. i have tried most of the books; current and past: bernard clayton, >julia child, etc. any help would be greatly appreciated; i'm tired of >eating bad rye bread. as it is, when any one from ny comes visiting, they >bring rye bread! >thanks again. joyce Pumpernickel Bread (c)1996 Lora Brody Like all hearty dark grain loaves, pumpernickel bread is best not overrisen. This version is dense and moist and makes a compact, finely textured loaf. The flavor and texture are developed with multiple kneads and a long, slow cool rise before the bread is shaped for the final rise and baking*. Don't be tempted to rush the process or you'll end up with a brick. Pumpernickel flour is a medium grind rye flour which contains almost no gluten and will not rise unless combined with other flour (such as white). The traditionally added black caraway is available in specialty food stores and by mail order from King Arthur. Altus is a mash made by soaking small pieces of stale sour rye bread in water overnight in the refrigerator and then squeezing out the excess liquid. This recipe can be made in the bread machine, in the food processor or by hand. If using the mixer or processor be very careful not to add enough flour to form a discreet ball of dough as this will make for a dry loaf of bread. 1 tablespoon active dry yeast (this is not rapid rise, but instantly dissolving) such as Red Star or Saf Instant 2-3 tablespoons Lora Brody's Sour Dough Bread Enhancer, depending on the degree of sour desired 3 tablespoons Hershey's Cocoa (not Dutch process) 2 cups all purpose unbleached flour 1 cup pumpernickel flour or medium rye flour 2 1/2 teaspoons salt 1/2 cup altus 1 cup warm water or extra to make a soft, smooth ball of dough after the first 5-7 minutes of kneading 4 tablespoons corn meal 1/3 cup vegetable oil 2 tablespoons black strap molasses 1 egg white mixed with 2 tablespoons water black caraway seeds Stand mixer: place all the dry ingredients in a stand mixer fitted with a dough hook. With the machine on lowest speed, add the remaining ingredients except the egg white and caraway seeds. Increase the speed to medium and knead 5-7 minutes, adding more liquid if necessary to make a slack, moist dough which will not form a discreet ball. Cover the dough and allow it to rise until almost double in bulk. Punch down the dough and knead for another 4-5 minutes. Allow the dough to rest, covered for 10 minutes before shaping and baking (see below).* Food processor: Place all the dry ingredients in a large, heavy duty food processor fitted with the plastic blade. With the processor on add the wet ingredients except the egg white and caraway seeds. Process for 60 seconds. The dough should be very moist and slack - it will not form a discreet ball. Allow the dough to rise in the processor or in a covered, oiled bowl, until double in bulk, then process for an additional 60 seconds. Remove the dough to a lightly floured work space, cover and allow it to rest for 15 minutes Bread machine: Place all the ingredients except the egg white and seeds in the bread machine and program for DOUGH using the Whole Wheat Setting if available. Watch the dough forming during the first few minutes of the kneading cycle, adding additional water or white flour as needed to form a smooth, moist, supple ball. At the end of the final cycle, remove the dough to a lightly floured work surface.* To complete: Sprinkle a heavy duty baking sheet with cornmeal. Form the dough into a low, round loaf, cover with a damp cloth and allow to rise in a warm place until doubled in bulk. Preheat the oven to 375F with the rack in the center position. Glaze with the egg wash and sprinkle with the seeds. Bake for 30-45 minutes or until the bottom sounds hollow when tapped and the top crust is quite firm, or until the internal temperature of the loaf is 190F on an instant read thermometer. *The taste and texture of all doughs and this one in particular will benefit from an additional long, slow, cool rise. If you have the time, after the final rise and before shaping, place the dough in a large-sized zip lock bag and place it in the refrigerator for 4-24 hours, then proceed with the shaping and baking. --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v099.n067.17 --------------- From: Blanche007@aol.com Subject: Re: Digest bread-bakers.v099.n066 Date: Sun, 12 Dec 1999 12:20:25 EST Replies etc. from Lora Brody in CAPS: >--------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v099.n066.1 --------------- > >From: Jack Elliott >Subject: Bread Flour >Date: Sun, 05 Dec 1999 12:58:50 -0500 > > > In seeking a larger than 5 lb. bag of bread flour I find the local Sam's >Club offers a 25 lb. bag. It is labeled as Bread Flour, however it is >also bleached and enriched. The protein content seems to me to be low, >sorry I do not recall the precise number. Is this a suitable flour for >home baking? NO - YOU SHOULD NOT BE USING BLEACHED FLOUR FOR BREAD BAKING. BLEACHING IS A CHEMICAL PROCESS THAT ONLY MAKES THE FLOUR WHITER - IT HAS NO OTHER PURPOSE, ESPECIALLY WHEN IT COME TO BAKING BREAD. WHY WOULD YOU WANT YOUR FLOUR TREATED WITH CHLORINE BLEACH? STICK TO AN UNBLEACHED, UNBORMATED FLOUR SUCH AS KING ARTHUR ALL PURPOSE. LORA >--------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v099.n066.2 --------------- > >From: DebHSN@aol.com >Subject: Jeanne's "heavy" whole grain loaves >Date: Tue, 7 Dec 1999 15:55:14 EST > >When I bake breads with lots of grains and/or nuts, I add wheat gluten >(purchased at a local health food store). It allows a loaf with a nice >texture (as apposed to the bricks I used to get when I used all whole grain >flours), but lets you keep the whole grain thing going. Directions on the >package tell you how much to use. It really works-makes a great bread! I'LL BE HAPPY TO SEND YOU (ANY ANYONE ELSE WHO IS INTERESTED) A FREE SMAPLE OF MY BREAD DOUGH ENHANCER WHICH WILL DO THE SAME THING, PLUS EXTEND THE SHELF LIFE OF YOUR BREAD. YOU CAN EMAIL ME DIRECTLY BLANCHE007@AOL,COM, OR GO THROUGH OUR WEB SITE: WWW.LORABRODY.COM, OR CALL OUR TOLL FREE NUMBER (888) 9BAKEIT. LORA BRODY >--------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v099.n066.6 --------------- > >From: "heather sarsfield" >Subject: Bulk Flour >Date: Mon, 06 Dec 1999 16:44:08 -0500 > >Hi, I am rather new to this list (it seems you all hear that one a lot!!). >I am not a "great" bread baker, but I would like to be, and that is why I >joined this list! >i have a question that I am hoping someone can help me with. I have a large >family (6 children) and thus I do bake a LOT. I would love to be able to >buy good flour for a fairly cheap price in 25-50 lb bags. I have looked >into restaurant distributors, but it seems with most of those you have to >buy in very large quantities. The most I would get at one time would be 100 >lbs. I am looking for just general all purpose white flour that is not >bleached (like King Arthur). I would also want it to be good for breads, >for I am baking my own exclusively instead of buying from the store. I hope >this wasn't too long. Thanks in advance for any help you all can give! :-) > >Heather Sarsfield HEATHER - WHY DON'T YOU CALL KING ARTHUR AT 802 649-3881 AND ASK ABOUT BUYING FROM IN FOOD SERVICE VOLUME - OR ASK ABOUT A FOOD SERVICE OUTLET NEAR YOU. LORA >--------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v099.n066.7 --------------- > >From: SloSherri@aol.com >Subject: Kitchen Aide vs. Cuisinart vs. Hand kneading >Date: Mon, 6 Dec 1999 19:19:13 EST > >Frank writes: > > >what I should do to be more consistently successful with the KA. I hope > >they offer their responses, because I'm interested to hear them. Right now > >I use my KA for cakes and cookie mixes and making meringues. HI - CAN YOU BE A LITTLE MORE SPECIFIC ABOUT WHAT KIND OF PROBLEMS YOU ARE HAVING WITH THE KITCHEN AIDE AND I CAN TRY TO HELP YOU. LORA >Frank, > >I have had a Kitchen Aide mixer for nearly 20 years (gads! how can that be?! > that would mean I'm getting ... old!), and I agree with you about the poor >quality of the KA's kneading process. I quickly gave up on it after some >repeated failures, and have just kneaded my bread the old fashioned way for >years. I never thought the Cuisinart would be up to the task, and anyway, I >LIKE kneading bread. So, I agree with you in your analysis of the KA (I >thought you might need some support here!) It is fine for cookies, cakes, >meringues, mashed potatoes, and any general (and long - to give it credit) >tasks. But kneading bread? If you don't mind beating the dough back into >the bowl repeatedly, I guess it's adequate! > >Sherri > >--------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v099.n066.8 --------------- > >From: fred smith >Subject: lightening whole grain breads >Date: Sun, 5 Dec 1999 13:30:34 -0500 > > > Does anyone have any suggestions to "lighten" up whole grain breads? Mine > > are so dense, they are hard to cut. I don't like to use dairy products or > > very much white flour as I'm looking for a healthy loaf of bread. > >One thing you might want to experiment with is King Arthur's "White Whole >Wheat" flour. I've been using it more and more and find I really love it. >If used alone with no white flour it gives a light-colored loaf (not as >light as white, but nowhere near as dark as "normal" whole wheat) with a >much lighter flavor than ordinary whole wheat flour, yet a wonderful whole >wheat flavor. AGAIN, I'LL BE GLAD TO SEND YOU A FREE SMAPLE OF THE ENHANCER. LORA --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v099.n067.18 --------------- From: Reggie and Jeff Dwork Subject: Merry Christmas Date: Fri, 17 Dec 1999 21:12:03 -0800 (PST) Jeff and I wish you a happy and safe Christmas holiday filled with much good bread. Reggie -- Reggie Dwork | Om Mani Padme Hung reggie@jeff-and-reggie.com | Owner eat-lf, bread-bakers, otbf mailing lists --------------- END bread-bakers.v099.n067 --------------- Copyright (c) 1996-2000 Regina Dwork and Jeffrey Dwork All Rights Reserved