Date: Sat, 17 Oct 1998 10:12:42 -0700 (PDT) -------------- BEGIN bread-bakers.v098.n071 -------------- 001 - Tario - What are you doing wrong? 002 - janat@1starnet.com - Thanks for the help! 003 - Rosemary Grimm - Potato bread 015 - Buese - mixing paddle gets stuck 016 - Reggie Dwork Subject: What are you doing wrong? Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1998 10:57:04 -0600 > Bread doesn't seem to rise much if anything at all. Oh you forgot to add the liquid! Bob H. --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v098.n071.2 --------------- From: janat@1starnet.com Subject: Thanks for the help! Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1998 08:18:38 -0500 I want to thank everyone who sent me copies of the Cinnamon Sunrise Bread recipe I've been searching for. I made some as soon as your recipes arrived and have been enjoying it ever since. I appreciate everyone taking the time to help me. Jana --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v098.n071.3 --------------- From: Rosemary Grimm Subject: salt in bread Date: Sun, 11 Oct 98 04:57:35 PDT Floyd, I don't believe Ms. Dash would work in breadmaking the way that salt does. Salt is not just for flavor; it "regulates" the action of yeast by killing some of it, and also strengthens the gluten. Other list members may have no-salt recipes. I would use less yeast and fewer rises. Make sure you knead well and try to make an interesting bread with flavorful ingredients to make up for the lack of salt flavor. The Ms Dash might help with the flavor. Rosemary Grimm, GARVANZA, CALIFORNIA The Blue Ribbon Bakery http://www.geocities.com/NapaValley/4496 ------------------------------------- Learn as if you will live forever. Live as if you will die tomorrow. --Gandhi ------------------------------------- --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v098.n071.4 --------------- From: Rosemary Grimm Subject: bread not rising Date: Sun, 11 Oct 98 04:35:56 PDT For CHAMBERS whose bread doesn't rise: It's easy to determine if your yeast is active. Just dissolve some in warm water; add a pinch of flour or sugar. If it's not bubbling up like crazy within 10 minutes, it's dead. If your yeast is active, are you killing it with too high a temperature? Or are you using the refrigerated flour without letting it warm up first? The yeast would still rise if the temperature were low, but it would take a very, very long time. Adding fat (this includes milk) or salt directly to the yeast can also diminish the rise. Are you kneading the dough sufficiently? If the gluten is not well developed, the dough will not hold the gases and expand with them. Oh, I noticed you're using a food processor to knead. Is this a part of the recipe directions? How long are you running it? A food processor works very fast and heats the dough; so it could be killing the yeast with heat or overkneading the dough. If you are able to make other bread that turns out well, then chuck this recipe and find another. Rosemary Grimm, GARVANZA, CALIFORNIA The Blue Ribbon Bakery http://www.geocities.com/NapaValley/4496 ------------------------------------- Learn as if you will live forever. Live as if you will die tomorrow. --Gandhi ------------------------------------- --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v098.n071.5 --------------- From: Rosemary Grimm Subject: Re: Mixmaster and Dough hooks Date: Sun, 11 Oct 98 07:07:24 PDT An electric mixer with dough hook doesn't necessarily make better bread. It's just easier than hand mixing for some folks. The book "Secrets of a Jewish Bread Baker" says that it is best to fully load the bowl of the mixer and there are mixer versions (larger batches) of all the recipes in that book. There may be other helpful mixer hints in that book; I just skimmed it at a bookstore. One problem that can occur, at least with the large KA mixer, is having flour thrown out of the bowl making a mess in the kitchen. You just need to keep the speed very low until most of the flour is incorporated. Increase the speed gradually until kneading begins. When kneading with the dough hook, look for the dough to hold together, clean the bowl and form a shape that begins slapping against the bowl sides. Stay with the mixer so it doesn't walk off the counter. Stop and feel the dough occasionally judging it's elasticity and wetness, just as you would with hand kneading. Mixers generally take 1/3 to 1/2 the time that hand kneading would require. Most people still want to do a little hand kneading at the end to round the dough before rising or just to have that great feel of live dough in their hands. Rosemary Grimm, GARVANZA, CALIFORNIA The Blue Ribbon Bakery http://www.geocities.com/NapaValley/4496 ------------------------------------- Learn as if you will live forever. Live as if you will die tomorrow. --Gandhi ------------------------------------- --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v098.n071.6 --------------- From: Ruth Warren Subject: stuff Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1998 11:07:30 -0500 Re salt substitution: OK, in my opinion, and that of a nutritionist, home economist, and Rehberg&Conway(Bread Machine Magic books authors) SOME SALT is NEEDED to conteract the effects of yeast and sugar rising, ALL ARE NECESSARY. However, I use Morton Lite Salt mixture: contains iodized salt & Potassium Chloride. Has half the sodium of table salt. It can be substituted equally for salt. However, I use scant measurements of it when measuring. In fact if a recipe calls for 1 1/2 t of salt, I use a scant 1 1/4t of this. You kind of need to know your recipe to figure how much you can short the measurement. If you are using Mrs. Dash (as do I) and not adding any salt elsewhere and reading package labels, this should pose no problems. Besides Mrs. Dash, I have gotten into growing my own herbs and using fresh in the summer and then drying my own for winter use. I don't use Mrs. Dash as much as I used too--everything tastes the same flavoring with it. I like to vary tastes with different herbs and spices, and using my own, I know it's pure and fresh! feel free to zap me with more questions. Now I have a non-bread machine question, yes, don't faint, non-machine!! I am working the polls this election and we all bring snacks to munch on. I'd like a bisquick mini muffin recipe with pumpkin IF THERE IS SUCH AN ANIMAL?????????? thanks, here's the latest rage among my friends: VANILLA RAISIN BREAD This makes a 1 1/2 lb loaf which basically fills my 2 lb machine. DO use pure vanilla extract for best results. If you don't have the time to soak the raisins ahead of time (I never do) just microwave the raisins and vanilla for 1 minute on high or med. high in a micro-safe bowl) 2/3 cup raisins soaked in 3 Tb vanilla for at least one hour (or microwaved as above); 1 1/4 cup buttermilk (or plain milk soured with a tsp of white vinegar works fine too); 1 egg; 1 tsp salt; 3 Tb butter or margarine; 2 Tb. sugar; 3 1/2 cups all purpose or bread flour 1 tsp cinnamon (this is optional) 1 1/2 tsp yeast (the recipe calls for 2 tsp but I find this way too much yeast - blows the top off the machine). Select basic or SWEET setting. This is from The BREAD MACHINE MAGIC Book of HELPFUL HINTS by Lois Conway and Linda Rehberg. Original recipe doesn't call for cinnamon. ruth -- ******************************************************** http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Acres/8785 ******************************************************** -- ******************************************************** http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Acres/8785 ******************************************************** --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v098.n071.7 --------------- From: Mary Subject: Re: Digest bread-bakers.v098.n070 Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1998 21:51:34 -0700 > snippity snip... Something is killing the yeast so the bread won't rise. If you are using a Cuisinart food processor, to make bread, it is probably caused by over kneading. I've never had any luck with food processor bread, so I ususally use the KitchenAid, or drag out the ABM. Below is a recipe from the Consumer Guide Food Processor Bread Book Hope the directions can be used as a guide for future bread making. Mary White Bread 3/4 to 1 cup water (105 to 115 degrees F) 1 package active dry yeast 1 tablespoon sugar 2 3/4 cups flour 3 tablespoons dried milk 2 tablespoons cold margarine or butter, cut into 2 pieces 1 teaspoon salt melted margarine or butter Combine 1/4 cup water, yeast and sugar. Stir to dissolve yeast and let stand until bubbly, about 5 minutes. Fit processor with steel blade. Measure flour, dried milk, butter and salt in work bowl. Process until mixed, about 15 seconds. Add yeast mixture to flour mixture. Process until blended, about 10 seconds. Turn on processor and very slowly drizzle just enough remaining water through feed tube into flour mixture so dough forms a ball that cleans the sides of the bowl. Process until ball turns around in bowl about 25 times. Turn off the processor and let dough stand 1 to 2 minutes. Turn on processor and gradually drizzle in enough water to make dough soft, smooth and satiny but not sticky. Process until dough turns around bowl about 15 times. Turn dough onto lightly floured board. Shape into ball and place in lightly greased bowl, round up. Cover loosely with plastic wrap and let stand in warm place until doubled, about 1 hour. Punch down dough. Shape into loaf. Place in a greased 8 1/2 x 4 1/2 x 2 1/2-inch pan. Brush with oil or melted butter. Let stand in warm place until doubled, 45 to 60 minutes. Heat oven to 375 degrees F. Bake until golden and loaf sound hollow when tapped, 25 to 30 minutes. Remove immediately from pan. Brush crust with oil or melted butter, if desired. Cool on wire rack. Makes 1 loaf. > --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v098.n070.7 --------------- > > From: CHAMBERS > Subject: Re: Digest bread-bakers.v098.n069 > Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 11:06:32 -0500 (CDT) > > AAAAAAAAARGGGHHHHH!! What am I doing wrong? My pityful attempts at bread > making yield something like magnum size bread sticks. Bread doesn't seem > to rise much if anything at all. I have made some pretty decent Italian > style bread but upon turning to the main recipe and instructions from > "Best Bread Ever" I've baked some awful stuff. I've followed the > instructions meticulously as far as I can tell, use an instant > thermometer, used a Cuisinart Marchine to mix, used Instant Yeast > (RedStar) still within the dates printed on the package, etc. > > The bread just sits there without rising and bakes into baguettes that are > about an inch and a half in diameter and hard as rocks. I let a batch > rise an additional half hour yesterday and with no different results. I > keep the yeast and the flour in the refrigerator. True enough both have > been in the refrigerator for about six months. Is that a problem? > --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v098.n071.8 --------------- From: Edria J Philpott Subject: Cabin Rolls Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 21:38:59 -0500 My friend Cecilia sent me the recipe for cabin rolls that sounds great. Thought you might enjoy trying this simple recipe. Cabin Rolls 1 Cup self-rising flour 3/4 Cup sweet milk 3 Tbs mayonaise Bake at 350 degrees for 25 minutes in muffin tins. Makes 6 rolls. --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v098.n071.9 --------------- From: "Paula Ranney" Subject: Oatrim Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1998 17:31:37 -0700 I bought a package of a product called "Oatrim" which is an oat-based product that can be used to replaced up to 3/4 of the fat in regular baked goods recipes. I would like to know if anyone has any experience with this stuff, and what results you've had. I'd also love to have any recipes that you have tried and liked. Thanks. pjranney --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v098.n071.10 --------------- From: Ray Crooks Subject: Sweet Bread's Lack of Rise Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 17:01:09 -0500 I bought a box American Classic bread mixes, 2 cinnamon, 1 banana, and 1 cranberry orange. The box says "For .....any bread machine with quick bread cycle". I have a Black and Decker with a quick cycle (one hour 58 minutes). I have used one of the cinnamon and the cranberry orange. In each case the mix rose only about 3 inches in the pan. When cut (it tastes good) it looks and it is very dense inside a very narrow band around the loaf which appears more normal. No yeast was included or mentioned, but the list of ingredients in the mixes includes leavening(sodium acid pyrophjosphate, sodium bicarbonate, monocalcium phosphate). What might be the problem? Ray Crooks --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v098.n071.11 --------------- From: "Donner,Pamela" Subject: answer to trouble? Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 10:33:02 -0500 Hi, This is to the person that was having trouble producing a loaf of bread. The problem seemed to be that the bread did not rise at all despite the careful checking of all ingred, resulting in a rock-like loaf. The person used a cuisinart to mix and knead the dough. I use a cuisinart for bread making and it is possible to 1) overknead and/or 2) kill the yeast by heating it up too much. As soon as the dough forms a nice ball (ie you have achieved the right ratio of flour to liquid), you should only knead this dough for 30-45 secounds. I have seen several references that state 45sec in the cuisinart = 10 min by hand or by kichenaid. Also the motor of the cuisinart heats up the dough and if the dough gets too hot, the yeast will suffer. I proof my yeast breifly in a small amount of warm water (95-105 degrees F), then add the remaining liquid to the flour in the cuisinart at room temp (not warm). In one of Julia Child's books (Baking with Julia, I think), she actually adds COLD water to the cuisinart to prevent the dough from getting too hot. These are the two factors that I believe might be causing you trouble. Let us know how it works out! Good Luck, pam d --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v098.n071.12 --------------- From: "Terry Klodnicki" Subject: Yogurt Cheese Questions Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 21:50:36 -0400 Hi, Although I heard about it before (from this list along time ago???), I never tried to make yogurt cheese, but recent posts have peaked my interest. I love the idea of making it flavored. Do you think I could mix some mashed berries into the yogurt before draining? Does anyone have any other flavored yogurt cheese recipes that they really like? If you make it plain, does it taste like plain yogurt, or is it more like cream cheese? A few specifics... How long should the cheese drain? How should it be stored, and how long will it keep? Can you use nonfat yogurt? Thanks, Terry --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v098.n071.13 --------------- From: Priscilla Martel Subject: Bread Making Classes East Coast Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 17:15:40 -0500 We have been reading the Daily Bread and Bread Bakers lists for some time with great interest. The other day, a Bonnie Lee Brown (brown@castalnet.com) inquired about bread classes on the East Coast in a posting to the Daily Bread Mailing list. Charles van Over, author of The Best Bread Ever: Making Great Bread At Home Using Your Food Processor, Broadway Books 1997, and I will be teaching a class at Boston University on Thursday October 29, 1998 at the Metropolitan College. You can read about Charlie and his book at amazon.com's listing for the book. It has a recommendation from amazon's on-line cookbook editor, the publisher, a note from Charlie and 6 on-line reader reviews, all 5 star. Charlie and I have been making bread together for 25 years both the traditional way and the food processor way, at home and in professional kitchens. It was a real honor to see the book win two cookbook awards this past Spring. In a nutshell, Charlie is a hands-on baker, very devoted to mixing artisan style breads in the food processor. He has years of experience using stand mixers both commercial and at home and a strong attachment to breads with pre-ferments and sours. His area of interest tends to be European breads from baguette to rye. (In fact, he's experimenting with rye breads with high percentage of rye flour, more like what is made in Germany and Europe than what we find in the US.) Neither of us has ever used a bread machine but feel we'd better try so as not to be left out! Here is the copy from the BU announcement and all pertinent information. (They have other baking classes to offer as well.) And, Charlie and I will be doing a bread series in January in Providence, RI. Sincerely, Priscilla Martel Boston University copy reads: "FORTY-FIVE SECONDS TO THE BEST BREAD EVER Watch as Charles van Over and chef Priscilla Martel demonstrate a brilliant forty-five second food processor technique for turning out everything from the classic crusty baguette to pizza and sweet yeast breads and more. You'll always have time to make wonderful breads at home. Participants receive a copy of Charles van Over's James Beard and Julia Child IACP award-winning book along with a tasting of breads and savoury accompaniments." Time 6-9PM, Thursday October 29, 1998 Tuition: $50 includes book For more information: 617-353-9852 --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v098.n071.14 --------------- From: Buese Subject: Potato bread Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 10:15:49 -0500 (CDT) I need a simple recipe for potato bread for a bread machine, using instant potato flakes. I lost the one I had! Thanks. Lisa Lisa Buese Ste. Genevieve County, MoGenWeb Coordinator --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v098.n071.15 --------------- From: Buese Subject: mixing paddle gets stuck Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 10:15:51 -0500 (CDT) I have a Toastmaster bread machine, and the mixing paddle keeps getting stuck in the loaves. That's no big deal, but getting it out involves pulling out a BIG chunk of the loaf, no matter how careful I am. When the machine was newer (I've had it about 6 months) the paddle occasionally got stuck, but it didn't pull out much bread when I took it out. Is there anything I can do about this? Lisa Lisa Buese Ste. Genevieve County, MoGenWeb Coordinator --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v098.n071.16 --------------- From: Reggie Dwork Subject: vegetarian bagel and scone Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 22:39:05 -0500 Celery Dill Bagels Whole Wheat Orange Scones Here are a couple of vegetarian recipes to try. Reggie * Exported from MasterCook * Celery Dill Bagels Recipe By : Veggie Life, May 1998 Serving Size : 12 Preparation Time :0:00 Categories : Breads/Muffins/Rolls Ethnic Low Fat Vegetarian Bread Bakers Mailing List Amount Measure Ingredient -- Preparation Method -------- ------------ -------------------------------- 4 C Bread Flour 1 1/2 C Whole Wheat Flour 2 Pkg Active Dry Yeast 3 Tbsp Sugar -- Or Barley Malt Syrup 2 Tsp Salt 1 Tsp Dill Seed 1 Tsp Celery Seed 2 C Lukewarm Water 1 Tbsp Cornmeal Egg Wash -- Optional Dill Seed -- Optional To Sprinkle On Top In a mixing bowl, stir together flours, yeast, sugar (if using), salt, dill seed, and celery seed. If using barley malt syrup, stir it into water. Add to bowl with dry ingredients and mix to form a stiff dough. (Mixture will seem dry and shaggy at this point, but light kneading will bring it together.) On a lightly floured surface, knead dough lightly into a smooth ball and return to bowl. Cover with plastic an set aside in a warm place for an hour to rest. (At this point the dough may be refrigerated for several hours. Set out at room temp for about 2 hrs before proceeding to step 3.) Preheat oven to 400F. Lightly spray or brush a baking sheet with oil and sprinkle with cornmeal. Set a large pot of water and 1 Tbsp sugar to boil. On a lightly floured surface, turn out dough and divide in half. Return one half to bowl and divide the other into 6 equal pieces. Roll each piece into smooth ball. Flatten balls slightly, push thumbs through center, place index fingers inside, and roll into a smooth, open bagel shape. (Dough will rise to fill in hole if it isn't large enough.) Drop 3 bagels into boiling water and boil gently, turning often, for 5 min. Using a strainer or slotted spoon, remove bagels carefully. Rest spoon briefly on towel to remove excess water and set bagels a few inches apart, on prepared sheet. Repeat with remaining 3 bagels. Brush bagels with egg wash and sprinkle with seeds, if desired. Bake for about 30 min, until glossy and well browned. Repeat with second half of dough. Makes 12 bagels. - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Nutr. Assoc. : 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 1582 0 0 0 0 * Exported from MasterCook * Whole Wheat Orange Scones Recipe By : Vegetarian Times, May 1998 Serving Size : 12 Preparation Time :0:00 Categories : Breads/Muffins/Rolls Low Fat Vegetarian Want To Try Bread Bakers Mailing List Amount Measure Ingredient -- Preparation Method -------- ------------ -------------------------------- Vegetable Oil 1 1/2 C Flour -- Unbleached 1/2 C Whole Wheat Flour 2 Tbsp Brown Sugar 1/2 Tsp Baking Soda 2 Tsp Baking Powder 4 Tbsp Lowfat Margarine -- Or Butter, Cut Into Small Pieces 2/3 C Unsweetened Applesauce 2 Tbsp Finely Chopped Orange Zest 1/3 C Raisins 1/3 C Buttermilk Granulated Sugar -- For Sprinkling This recipe can be a springboard for creativity, providing a basic dough to which you can add lemon, blueberries or dried cranberries. Preheat oven to 400F. Lightly coat a baking sheet with cooking spray. In med bowl. mix both flours, brown sugar baking soda and baking powder. Using a pastry blender or two knives, cut in margarine or butter until mixture resembles coarse meal. Stir in applesauce, orange zest, raisins and just enough buttermilk to form a stiff dough. Turn dough out onto a lightly floured surface. With floured hands, pat dough to 3/4" thickness. Using a 2" round cookie cutter, cut out circles of dough. Put scones on prepared baking sheet, brush tops with buttermilk and sprinkle with granulated sugar. Bake until golden, about 15 min. Serve warm or at room temp. Makes 12 scones LACTO - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Nutr. Assoc. : 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 1012 0 0 0 --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v098.n071.17 --------------- From: Reggie Dwork Subject: Cumin Scented Flatbreads Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 22:44:01 -0500 * Exported from MasterCook * Cumin Scented Flatbreads Recipe By : First For Women, 6/29/98 Serving Size : 12 Preparation Time :0:00 Categories : Breads/Muffins/Rolls Grill/Bbq Low Fat Bread Bakers Mailing List Hand Made Amount Measure Ingredient -- Preparation Method -------- ------------ -------------------------------- 1 C All-Purpose Flour 1 C Whole Wheat Flour 1 C Yellow Cornmeal 1 C Loosely Packed Parsley Leaves -- Chopped 1 Tsp Salt 1 Tsp Ground Cumin 4 1/2 Tbsp Olive Oil -- Divided In bowl, combine first six ingredients. With fork, stir in 3 Tbsp oil and 1 C water until dough comes together. On floured surface, knead dough 2 min or until smooth. Divide dough in half and flatten into discs. Wrap in plastic; chill 15 min. Heat grill to high for direct heat or position broiler rack 2 - 3 " from heat source and heat broiler. On floured surface, roll out each half to an 18" circle. Brush dough with remaining oil. With knife, cut dough into 12 wedges; grill, uncovered, or broil 2 - 3 minutes, turning once, until golden and crispy. If desired, sprinkle with coarse salt and pepper before serving. Work Time: 20 min Total Time: 40 min - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Nutr. Assoc. : 0 0 0 1036 0 0 0 --------------- END bread-bakers.v098.n071 --------------- Copyright (c) 1996-2000 Regina Dwork and Jeffrey Dwork All Rights Reserved