Date: Sat, 7 Feb 1998 13:03:23 -0800 (PST) -------------- BEGIN bread-bakers.v098.n011 -------------- 001 - "Jo in Minnesota" - 004 - Ken Vaughan - SF Sourdough Starter 012 - Tinindian7@aol.com - Dill Bread 013 - "Joe" Subject: More sticky paddle talk Date: Sun, 1 Feb 1998 10:30:55 -0600 A friend and I have identical bread makers, and we both put water in the pan to loosen the paddle. My friend has had to have the pan replaced several times because he could no longer shake the bread out. I have never had this happen and I think the reason is because I let the pan cool completely before putting the water in, and my friend dumps it in while the pan is still hot. Has anyone else had this experience? My friend thinks my theory is crazy . Any ideas? Jo in Minnesota --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v098.n011.2 --------------- From: CMoore9914@aol.com Subject: Raising in the microwave Date: Sun, 1 Feb 1998 12:00:08 EST I make one loaf of bread at the time. I knead it in my food processor and raise it in the microwave. This saves me ton of time especially when I forget to start bread early in the afternoon. I bring 3 cups of water to boil in the microwave in a 4-cup measuring cup. After the water boils, I slide the cup to the corner and put in my covered bread for the first rising. I put the power on low or 2 for about 10 minutes, then check the bread. If it hasn't risen enough, I go another 5 minutes. I take the bread out and shape it and put it on a baking stone or in a stone pan. Cover it up and back into the microwave as before. It works everytime and I get such lovely brown bread on the baking stone. Cindy --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v098.n011.3 --------------- From: rich Subject: Date: Sun, 1 Feb 1998 09:24:36 -0500 LGDarr wrote: <> Hello: Not only can you, but you SHOULD keep it in the 'fridge between uses if you don't use it every 1-2 days. I use a mason-type jar with a bail lid with NO rubber fitting. That makes it covered, but loose enough to allow the forming gasses to escape. I believe one can use glass or pottery, but not metal for a container. I presume plastic should be ok, too, but I don't really know. best, Debbie --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v098.n011.4 --------------- From: Ken Vaughan Subject: Pizza Date: Sun, 1 Feb 1998 09:45:19 -0900 (AKST) I attempted to send these but the recipes did not arrive with the message text. Second attempt * Exported from MasterCook * Pizza Dough - For Chicago Style Bread Pizza Recipe By : Serving Size : 1 Preparation Time :0:00 Categories : Pizza Amount Measure Ingredient -- Preparation Method -------- ------------ -------------------------------- 4 cups unbleached white flour OR a mixture of white and whole wheat -- flour 1/4 cup gluten flour 1/2 teaspoon salt 1/2 teaspoon ground black pepper 1/4 cup oil 1 package yeast or 1 tablespoon bulk dry yeast 1 1/4 cups warm water Mix the seasonings and oil with the warm water. Add the flours and knead until as smooth dough results. Allow to rise for 30 minutes or longer to relax before spreading in a large Chicago style pan or 2 flat pizza pans. Be sure to use the black pepper as it adds to the flavor. For Pesto crust, add 2-4 tablespoons of pesto with the oil This makes a good dough in a bread machine on the dough setting. Drizzle or brush a light coating of olive oil over the crust. Add the tomato sauce and toppings. Bake until just beginning to brown, and then add the cheese(s). This will tend to make a less drippy sauce. Seasoned pepper, ground chipolte pepper, or crushed red pepper may be added to the dough instead of black pepper for a more spicy flavor. - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - * Exported from MasterCook * Pizza Sauce - For Chicago Style Pizza Recipe By : Serving Size : 1 Preparation Time :0:00 Categories : Pizza Amount Measure Ingredient -- Preparation Method -------- ------------ -------------------------------- 1 can tomato sauce (28 oz.) ***OR*** 1 16 ounce can sauce with 1 can (6 0z) tomato paste 6 ounces water (or less for thicker sauce) ***SEASONINGS*** 1/2 teaspoon salt (optional) 1/2 teaspoon garlic powder 2 teaspoons italian seasoning 2 teaspoons fennel seed 2 teaspoons onion powder 1 tablespoon sugar Mix all the ingredients and allow to set for at least 30 minutes before use. The Fennel Seed is a key to the flavor!! Fresh herbs in season replace the italian seasoning. Finely minced fresh onion can replace the onion powder. Ken's favorite -- omit the salt and add a few chopped anchovie fillets or 2 teaspoons of anchove paste. This sauce is thick and spreads well. - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v098.n011.5 --------------- From: "Christopher E. Eaves" Subject: Stuck bread paddle Date: Sun, 01 Feb 1998 20:03:32 -0600 To keep my paddle from getting stuck & also making a big hole I remove the paddle after the final rise cycle. Chris --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v098.n011.6 --------------- From: Letha Price Subject: Bread storage Date: Sun, 01 Feb 1998 17:36:42 -0800 How do most of you store your homemade bread? I have been putting it in a plastic food storage bag and then in put that in a ziploc bag. Any better suggetions? -- Letha Price L P Designs in Richmond VA mailto:letha@erols.com --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v098.n011.7 --------------- From: Dorothy V Subject: Graham Flour Date: Sun, 01 Feb 1998 14:14:34 -0500 Have a package of Bob's Red Mill Graham Flour I bought a while ago. I'm looking for a bread machine recipe that would use some of this flour along with, preferably, whole wheat flour. Can I just substitute some graham flour for a portion of the whole wheat? Thanks for any suggestions. --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v098.n011.8 --------------- From: "Yolanda Welch" Subject: what to put sourdough in Date: Sun, 01 Feb 98 12:10:35 PST > LGDarr asks what to put sourdough in while mixing and can it be stored in the refrigerator. Yes, it can be stored in the refrigerator. I even freeze mine when I get tired of it. Then when I want to use it, I place it on the counter and let it defrost, feed it and use. As far as what to store it in and mix it in, I use a large glass container with a tight fitting lid. I mix it in the jar then put it on the counter for it to process, then put the lid on it and put it in the fridge. Yolie yolieptr@cyberhighway.net --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v098.n011.9 --------------- From: "Christopher Flann" Subject: Programmable Bread Bakers Date: Sun, 1 Feb 1998 15:04:19 -0700 Besides the Zoji, are list subscribers aware of ABM's that permit a user programmed cycle. My Regal has helped me produce many a short loaf through the rise cycle not being long enough. I suspect our house is a partial culprit, we keep the temp around 65 F. My proposed solution is a machine that I can program for a longer rise time. I see from the King Arthur Flour site, the Zoji they are selling is programmable, but its a bit expensive, $200. Is this just an example of you get what you pay for? Or are there Regal priced ABM's ($80-100) with this feature? Christopher cjflann@imt.net Montana. The Last Best Place. --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v098.n011.10 --------------- From: "Yolanda Welch" Subject: diastatic malt-how to make Date: Sun, 01 Feb 98 12:17:08 PST > and Diastatic >Malt Powder (gives finer texture, keeps bread fresh longer). For those overachiever types like me: You can make diastatic malt. I found this recipe for it years ago (when I was sorta a back to the earth person) and it is really easy. You buy wheat, soak it overnight in water, drain water, cover with water, allow to sit on counter until sprouts form about the same length as the wheat. Then place on cookie sheet and place in oven. Dry at about 250 degrees, do not brown. When dry place in coffee grinder(clean out coffee grounds well) and grind to coffee-like consistency. Use in your bread and enjoy. Yolie yolieptr@cyberhighway.net --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v098.n011.11 --------------- From: Bru Subject: SF Sourdough Starter Date: Sun, 01 Feb 1998 16:14:58 -0500 Marie, The secret of all sourdough is the wild yeast it picks up. Just like some cheeses can only naturally be made in certain areas, some sourdoughs can only get a natural start in the area they're in. I have one I started about 20 years ago and another I started about 3 years ago. I am only 25 miles from where I started the other sponge, but this one is decidedly different tasting. Of course other things will affect the flavor too, what you feed it (flours, different types of sugars), how it's stored (mine takes a few weeks to get back to full flavor after being frozen a while), how long you let it develop before using it. I doubt it's San Francisco's water. If you want a true San Francisco sourdough, buy a packaged starter from a San Francisco concern. I've seen some in mail order catalogues, but be sure it's really from SF. But you might just let yours develop a while, use some, feed it, repeat a few months worth and see how the flavor develops. Bru BruBro@erinet.com Dayton, Ohio The REAL birthplace of aviation. --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v098.n011.12 --------------- From: Tinindian7@aol.com Subject: Dill Bread Date: Sun, 1 Feb 1998 21:27:17 EST I am searching for a Dill Bread recipe I think I found in one of the Bread Digest. However after searching many hours in the archives, with no luck I might add, I am still without a favorite recipe of my family. If someone has a recipe for Dill Bread that can be made in ABM i sure would appreciate it. Happy Bread Making Tinindian7@aol.com --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v098.n011.13 --------------- From: "Joe" Subject: Mixing pizza dough in a blender Date: Sun, 1 Feb 1998 20:19:07 -0600 I use to watch a program on TV called The Pizza Gourmet, and he use to mix enough dough for one pizza in a blender. When the dough formed a ball he stopped Cajun Joe --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v098.n011.14 --------------- From: Dave Littlehale Subject: Recipe request: M&M batter Date: Sun, 01 Feb 1998 23:23:19 -0500 I saw the posts about adding M&M's to a batter. I have a sister in law who is nuts over M&M's (especially peanut) pun intended. We are getting together in a couple of weeks and I would love to surprise her with a M&M bread. Can someone suggest a batter that would be fitting for such a treat? I need this by 2/12 at the latest. So could someone please email privately if there is a doubt about the timing. I could post it to the list after I receive it. Thank you ever so much Dave --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v098.n011.15 --------------- From: Jill & Joe Proehl Subject: Re: Digest bread-bakers.v098.n009 Date: Mon, 02 Feb 1998 00:26:30 -0600 Ellen - I, too, suffer from this same problem. My kids are waiting with baited breath to get into my bread. I take the internal temperature with an instant read thermometer. It should read 180 degrees. Also, you could tap the bottom of the loaf, and if it sounds hollow, your bread should be done. This has worked pretty well for me. I've only had a couple of recipes not be done when I've used this benchmark. As far as cutting the bread when it's just warm - I know, but not exactly why (something about cutting the gluten strands- someone help me out here) that you are not supposed to cut bread until it is completely cool. Sometimes I do and it slices no problem (depending on the recipe I'm making) and sometimes, it turns out to be a crumbly mess. I try to let it cool, but I know, sometimes, it's really really hard, isn't it? Jill --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v098.n011.16 --------------- From: SmokeyKat4@aol.com Subject: Re: Timer Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 11:39:31 EST Hi everyone! I have been so busy that all I had to catch up on reading the digest. Thanks for the input on the timer for making dough. I think I will try some of the ideas. Does anyone have a recipe for pita bread? How does the "pocket" form? Thanks for the great recipes and tips everyone! Barbara --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v098.n011.17 --------------- From: hirsc003@mc.duke.edu Subject: timer for dough cycle Date: Mon, 02 Feb 1998 08:56 -0500 (EST) I, too, often wish my ABM came with a timer for the dough cycle. since it doesn't, I have improvised with a little creative math. Let's say I want the *dough* to be ready at 5:00 p.m., and I know that the dough cycle is 1 1/2 hours of a 3 1/2 hour cycle. I set the timer for the entire cycle to be finished by 7:00 p.m., but I know I have to be around when the dough cycle is completed at 5:00 p.m. My kids laugh at me when I count on my fingers and toes to get it right, but it does work. Marcy --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v098.n011.18 --------------- From: Raphael Ryan Subject: A warm place to proof bread Date: Mon, 02 Feb 1998 08:29:58 -0600 The oven is a great place to proof your bread - if it's not already busy. Many years ago I read of a testing that had been done by some culinary laboratory or other where they tried baking everything imaginable starting with a pre-heated oven, and a cold oven. They found that the only food they where they could tell any difference was angel food cake. Surprised the heck out of me! but since then I have frequently used the oven-light method to proof my bread (even for the after-shapping proof). Then just turn on the oven to the proper baking temperature (while the loaves are still in the oven) when the loaves, buns, etc. have risen. The only time I can imagine this being counterproductive would possibly be when the bread is already over-proofed when the oven is turned on. For those of you who like to be ultra-precise, you can shorten the proofing time by 3 to 5 minutes and add that much to the baking time. I did this a few times, but couldn't really tell the difference in the results. Raphael Ryan Kansas City, MO --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v098.n011.19 --------------- From: tomwms@concentric.net (Tom R Williams) Subject: Cutting Hot Bread Date: Mon, 02 Feb 1998 15:11:43 GMT > Here's a question. I know approximately what temperature the >interior of my bread should be when it is fully baked. Does anyone know >what the approximate temperature of a freshly baked bread should be = before >cutting it? It is tough to cut bread until the temperature is around 110F or lower. Usually around 45 minutes or so. In the business, when we wanted to see what the inside looked like as rapidly as possible, we put the loaf directly into the freezer for 5 or 10 minutes. That system works just fine or if it's cold outside, try leaving it there for a short period of time. Tom Williams --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v098.n011.20 --------------- From: Raphael Ryan Subject: Dough Enhancers Date: Mon, 02 Feb 1998 09:17:18 -0600 Hi Matthew, Could it be that bread making is like any other hobby in that the personality of the person involved has much to do with the preferences? Or how about, "There's more than one 'right' way to do almost everything." It seems that bread making can be done many ways - quite successfully. If you're one who likes things complicated, add 10 ingredients, if you like it simple, pick a new ingredient see what it does before making its addition routine. Or just on impulse, try one (any one) of the dough enhancers. I've tried quite a number of additions to my bread dough throughout the years. It seems to me that additional gluten is a waste if you're buying 'bread flour' because that is one of the ingredients the mill has already increased to make it a good 'bread flour.' If you buy whole wheat or fresh grind your flour, then it can really help. Malt, either powder or syrup, is an even better 'food' for yeast than sugar. But with today's yeasts I sure have a hard time telling in which loaf I've used a a teaspoon of sugar from the one with the spoonful of malt. I like things as simple as possible and don't use - for very long - any ingredients that don't show a dramatic difference. That's why I latched on to the 'lecithin, ginger, vitamin C' dough enhancer. It's simple, less expensive than most, and the whole family noticed a difference in the 'buttery' taste (there's no butter and only 1 teaspoon of olive oil); the larger size of the loaf; and, if there's any left, the freshness of the loaf a couple of days later. But there are a million loaves of superb loaves of bread out there which include none of those ingredients! Bread making is just plain FUN, isn't it? And the Bread-bakers Digest and all the people who write to it surely adds to the fun! Raphael Ryan --------------- END bread-bakers.v098.n011 --------------- -------------- BEGIN bread-bakers.v098.n012 -------------- 001 - CHPTACEK@aol.com - paddle problems & bread flops 002 - myron@america.com (Myron - Gluten? Where can I get it? 003 - BillyFish@aol.com - Demand better ranges 004 - "Angie Klidzejs" wrote in a response: >>>>>>> I do my first rise in the oven, with the light switched on -- that keeps it about 80 F. But the second rise is a problem, since the oven needs to be preheating while the dough rises. Lately, I have been putting the bread pans on top of an electric heating pad set on low, with a towel over the pad to keep it clean and waxed paper over the loaves. Works very well for me. <<<<<<<< I have complained to Genral Electric about the inability to raise dough in their pilotless gas range. They probably consider me to be a nut. The justify not having a low temperature available as a health safety measure. It is not clear to me that pilotless really saves energy. Instead and electric ignitor runs all the time. That, however, is another story. They also have all the electrical arrangement available for very sophisticated oven control. They refuse to do so. Instead, probably because they always did it that way, have a lousy ergonomic oven controller. There is an opportunity for third party equipment more congenial to mad bakers everywhere. Please complain to range suppliers. They can brush me off, but it a swarm of other also complain, better products may result. William Buchman --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v098.n012.4 --------------- From: "Angie Klidzejs" Subject: Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 19:53:51 > Rainbow Foods does not carry Gluten. Anyone know where I can try to find > this? > Remo... Actually, Rainbow Foods DOES carry Gluten, but they don't stock it with other baking products. Check the "Natural Foods" section. You may also be able to find it at food co-ops. Call around. Angie Klidzejs --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v098.n012.5 --------------- From: "Larry Ziegler" Subject: FEEDBACK Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 10:29:46 -0600 I made the Stuffing Bread this last weekend(WITH A FEW ADDITIONS!), it was/is VERY GOOD!!! Larry Ziegler --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v098.n012.6 --------------- From: remo21 Subject: Re: Date: Thu, 5 Feb 98 13:18:09 -0600 Angie Klidzejs said this really silly thing: >Actually, Rainbow Foods DOES carry Gluten, but they don't stock it with >other baking products. Check the "Natural Foods" section. > >You may also be able to find it at food co-ops. Call around. Well, those sneaky buggers!! I'll check it out. Thanks, Angie! Remo... --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v098.n012.7 --------------- From: QuiltnGal@aol.com Subject: Proofing bread Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 00:22:23 EST Hi everyone! This is my first time to post to this list but wanted to let you know how I proof my bread when I'm not using my bread machine. First, wet a kitchen towel an squeeze out the excess water. Place the folded towel in your microwave and microwave for 3-4 minutes. Leave the towel in the microwave. Place your bread dough, either in a greased bowl or in the baking pans depending on which rise it is on, into the microwave. DO NOT turn on the microwave. Let rise as usual. It will take less time than at room temperature and you won't have to worry about the dough deflating because it stuck to the waxed paper in the final rise. Hope all of this makes sense! Laura, QuiltnGal@aol.com Castle Rock, CO --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v098.n012.8 --------------- From: NORTON746@aol.com Subject: new to list Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 20:55:40 EST Hello! I'm new to the list. I've had my machine for a year and am really enjoying it. I'm excited to learn what other kinds of breads I can make with it. I have a Black and Decker which makes either a 1.5 or 2. lb loaf. I would be interested to hear from anyone else who has one or has had experience with one (quirks, problems, helpful info, etc.) Right now I'm really into making pizza dough with my machine. I have a great recipe for that, compliments of my friend J. Allen. Recipe as follows: Pizza Dough 1 cup warm water 2tbs. olive oil 2tbs. sugar 1tsp. salt 3 cups bread flour herb seasoning (optional) 2 1/2 tsp. yeast Measure all ingred. into bread machine pan, select dough setting. Start! When it's finished, take the dough out and use the dough however you want to make your pizza. I can make one 15'' thick crust pizza or two 13'' thin crust pizzas with this dough. Bake at 425 for 10-15 min. on lower rack. I look forward to learning more and to getting feed-back to my many questions! Thanks, V. Norton --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v098.n012.9 --------------- From: rprovanc@gmu.edu Subject: Amaranth and other flours Date: Tue, 03 Feb 1998 19:37:56 -0800 Judith wrote to the Daily Bread list asking what to do with Amaranth Flour. In the first place, I have a recipe for Amaranth Oat Bread from the Arrowhead Mills Amaranth flour box: 1 C oat flakes 2 C water 2 t salt (optional) Bring the above to a boi, cook until thick and creamy. Cool to room temperature. combine and let set until bubbly (10 minutes): 2 t yeast 1/2 c warm water 3 T honey 1/4 c vegetable oil Combine all of the above and 1 C amaranth flour 4 C whole wheat flour Knead, let rise for 1 1/2 hours. Knead again, let rise second time, punch down and form into loaves. Let rise, bake at 350 degrees F for 60 minutes, until crust is golden brown and bread tests done. Of course, that is a traditional, not bread machine recipe. In the second place, one can replace part of the wheat flour with amaranth flour in any recipe. Try to use 1/4 amaranth flour, and see what happens. I use this method with lots of different ingredients, just to see how they work! Keep Baking! Ruth --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v098.n012.10 --------------- From: Tommy Armstrong Subject: Need Help With Some Very Old Recipes Date: Tue, 03 Feb 1998 02:51:13 -0500 Dear Master Breadmakers, A couple of years ago I started a project and asked members of this list for some help. They were kind and helpful. Well, my computer crashed, I lost everything, got a new job, and put the project off. I now have convinced myself to finish it and again am enlisting help. Some years ago, my Grandmother died and I got her recipe box. She was a caterer in Savannah, Georgia for 50+ years (she lived 1 block from the now infamous Mercer House where the murder in Midnight in the Garden of Good and Evil took place). She did parties for much of Savannah's 'society', and I think it would makea good cookbook. Grandmother Sallie was born in the Lowcountry of South Carolina. Her mother and grandmother lived on rice plantations in and around Beufort and Blufton. She came into her mother's hanwritten cookbook, which undoubtedly came also from her grandmother. These receipts probalbly date from the 1840's to the 1880's and are written in the 'old style'. It is my intention to try and combine these two resources (the old cookbook and her receipt box) into a "Four Generations of Southern Cooking" (my mother was also a part time caterer in Raleigh, NC and am going to include some of her classics for the Fouth Generation). My problem is the old receipts. I, my wife, and my mother are not not bakers. And there are about 25 breads that were obviously cooked by the slaves on the plantations on wood stoves. No cooking times, and many times no directions. It is my intention to treat these as historical documents, publish them as they were written, and also to translate them for the modern cook so that they could try them if they would like to. For example breads made in these new-fangled bread making machines as well as in the oven. This is where I would like to enlist yall's help. If anyone would care to test and modernize any of these receipts, I would be greatly appreciative and when this thing gets published--and I am confident that it will-- would of course give credit for the tranlation. Having many different people modernize them might lead to some inconsistency in style, but I think it would just add to the overall concept. If anyone would like to give them a try, drop me a note. Sincerely Tommy Armstrong PS. there are also cakes ,deserts, preserves, candies, pickles,catsups, and soups. --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v098.n012.11 --------------- From: Joan Ross Subject: types of yeast and conditioners Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 11:34:30 -0500 (EST) It was interesting to read what people have to say about the different brands of yeast. I have tried SAF, SAf with vit C, Fleishmans's ,Red Star and recently Fermipan (an Italian yeast with vit C- especially for Italian types of bread ) and have settled on Saf(with vit c) for the time being. All my breads came out fine with all varieties of yeast, but interesting enough I liked the "texture" I got with the Saf ( even the plain kind without the C ). I believe the results are a combination of factors. I suggest, the brand of flour has a lot to do with the overall quality and rise of the bread. I used to buy All Trumps- A General Mills flour that was high gluten ,bromated, bleached.It made the best loaves- But I switched for personal reasons that I did not wish to have all the bromates since my kids eat a ton of bread. For the past few years I switched to Baker's and Chef's flour ( available at Sam's ) and use their bread flour. They also have a high gluten-bromated flour if you don't mind using bromates. I have sometimes used Better For Bread Flour when I am out of my large quanitity flour and King Arthur Flour but still prefer the Baker's and Chefs flour. I like Hodgen's Mills for the whole grain flours and personally believe whole grain breads are probably the best to eat in the long run for your nutrition and health. I have owned 4 different kinds of bread machines and I can tell you the same recipes come out different in different machines! So there is a lot to consider when evaluting yeast and flour ( and even water!!) and the recipe. As far as dough conditioners /confusion of what to use: This is my suggestion: First evalutate the flour/yeast/recipe combination for your hand made or machine made breads( rising ability and texture etc. ) Recipes with fats, milk, sugars , eggs generally come out lighter textured, finer grained because some of the ingredients do indeed tenderize dough. 2nd, add one simple change to the recipe for evaluation, say lemon juice and take it from there. I have found out that bottled lemon juice/white vinegar is probably one of the cheapest sources of dough conditioners to start off with( tenderizers and relaxes the gluten in the recipe) Bottled lemon juice does contain some preservatives by the way - so use fresh if you wish )When I experimented with my dill pickle bread ( see the recipe on my culinary page: http://www.pipeline.com~/rosskat/ I was amazed that the bread was so fine grained, light textured and fluffy- most likely from the pickle brine ( vinegar/preservative based ).It's a great once in a while-try a change of pace- recipe. I have bought and tried a commercial dough conditioners called CT-1 which is excellent ( contains vit c and potassium bromote among other things ) which certainly aided in the keeping quality of the breads and the breads were moister and more tender but I was seeking a more simple (? healthier ) product. I didn't want to feel like I was buying supermarket bread. Again my personal opinion! I have tried diastatic malt powder, liquid malted barley, leicithin, dry milk powder, gluten powder, ginger etc. etc.and combinations of these dough conditioners but in the long run, I try to bake a great loaf of bread the most economical or practical way. So my suggestion and my own personal opinion is start with one or two changes in the recipe and evaluate from there. There is no need to buy expensive commercial pacakaged stuff when you can try different things at home and come up with what works best for YOU! Most supermarkets and health foods store will have what you may you need to make your won dough conditioners in your recipes. sincerely Joan Visit the Ross Family Homepage http://www.pipeline.com/~rosskat/ personal & culinary topics --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v098.n012.12 --------------- From: "Bob & Carole Walberg" Subject: Recipe: Light Rye Bread Date: Fri, 6 Feb 1998 15:13:42 +500 This is a tasty rye bread that I made twice yesterday because it was so good. Carole Walberg * Exported from MasterCook * Light Rye Bread Recipe By : Electric Bread Serving Size : 12 Preparation Time :0:00 Categories : Electric Bread Breads Amount Measure Ingredient -- Preparation Method -------- ------------ -------------------------------- 1 Cup Water -- Plus 2 Tbsp. 2 1/4 Cups White Bread Flour 3/4 Cup Rye Flour 2 1/2 Tablespoons Sugar 1 1/4 Teaspoons Salt 1 1/4 Tablespoons Butter 1 Tablespoon Cornmeal 1/2 Tablespoon Caraway Seeds 2 Teaspoons Yeast- Fast Rise -- Or 3 Teaspoons Active Dry Yeast This recipe can be made with the regular, rapid, or delayed time bake cycles. Carole's Note: I used 2 Tbsp margarine instead of 1 1/4 Tbsp. and used 2 tsp. active dry yeast instead of 3 tsp. active dry for the 1 1/2 lb. loaf. - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - carole@mts.net http://www.brandonu.ca/~walberrd/family.html for 1000's of recipes in MC format and the .MXP Browser for the non-MC user --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v098.n012.13 --------------- From: "Angie Klidzejs" Subject: Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 19:45:17 > We are new to baking bread and are about to try making a sourdough > starter - could anyone suggest the best type of container to keep the > starter in? Also - can it be kept in the refrigerator between uses? > Thanks - Leslie & Randy There are several types of containers that can be used for storing sourdough starter: 1) A ceramic crock with a lid (at least 1 qt. size); 2) a large (1-qt) wide-mouthed canning jar -- just don't screw the cap on too tightly, so that the mixture can breathe; 3) an "old-fashioned" style glass or ceramic jar which has a metal bail lid and plastic or rubber gasket. Yes, sourdough starter can be refrigerated. When you're ready to use it, just pull it out, let it warm up, and feed it for a couple of days. I store mine for weeks at a time in the refrigerator, between feedings. Keep in mind though, that your starter may develop mold if it sits for too long. You may want to pour some starter out on a saucer which has been covered with plastic wrap. Loosely cover with waxed paper and let the starter dry until all liquid has evaporated. Then peel your dried starter off of the plastic wrap, put it in a freezer bag or small jar, and store it in your freezer for future use. You can grind it into a powder and reconstitute it with water and flour if you need to make a new starter. Angie Klidzejs --------------- END bread-bakers.v098.n012 --------------- Copyright (c) 1996-2000 Regina Dwork and Jeffrey Dwork All Rights Reserved