Date: Sun, 21 Dec 1997 22:24:46 -0800 (PST) -------------- BEGIN bread-bakers.v097.n078 -------------- 001 - Klevans - yeast 010 - Ruth Warren - Re: ABMs and Sourdough 017 - Takt EZ - Re: Bread Machine Cookbook 018 - Takt EZ - Re: Yeast 019 - Takt EZ - Re: Lora brody's Dough Relaxer Help? 020 - jefstone@juno.com (John E - Lora Brody's Dough Relaxer--Here's what's in it --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v097.n078.1 --------------- From: Klevans Subject: Stainless Steel Bread Pan Date: Sun, 14 Dec 1997 08:05:36 +0000 Although I have not made a detailed study of stainless steel bread pans there is very little reason to use stainless steel instead of aluminum because of the following reasons: Aluminum transfers heat much better, costs less, is easier to form into the shapes of a bread pan, and is easier to coat with non-stick finish. Larry Klevans klev4290@dpnet.net --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v097.n078.2 --------------- From: "Bill Hatcher" Subject: Re: Yeast Date: Sun, 14 Dec 1997 08:03:08 -0500 Chet - I, along with many others on the list, have been using the bulk yeast for a long time. Here in SE Virginia I get 2 1-pound packages of yeast at Sam's for $2-$3 (price fluctuates). Initially they carried Redstar which I prefer for the aroma, but for the last several months it has been all Fleishmans, which also works well. I keep the packages in the freezer, with a small jar in the refrigerator for ready use, refilling as needed. Once I open one of the foil pound packages, I seal the remainder in an air tight jar, still in the freezer. Yeast will remain viable this way indefinitely. There is really no need to bring the yeast to room temperature before using, since ABM's heat the batter during the rise process anyway. Regards. - - - - Bill Hatcher bhatcher@gc.net Southampton County, Virginia, USA >--------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v097.n077.3 --------------- > >From: Chettacka >Subject: Yeast >Date: Sun, 7 Dec 1997 09:21:39 EST > >A couple weeks into a hand-me-down bread machine, and I discovered the >inconvenience of those little yeast packets. The $5-jar of yeast was big news >to me!!! > >Now, a couple months into it, that jar doesn't seem to last very long AND it >seems expensive, compared to a 25-pound bag of bread flour. > >At a local warehouse operations (Sam's Club) they have a larger quantity of >yeast (1 pound???) for $2.99. The package says that, once opened, it must be >used within 2 weeks. > >Is this yeast something different from the little jars and packets??? > >I guess I just have some basic yeast questions and would appreciate any >advice/thoughts. > >Thanks. > >Chet > --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v097.n078.3 --------------- From: Vickie Kelley Subject: need a kneading pin for Zoji Date: Sun, 14 Dec 1997 13:36:29 +0000 All - I have lost the kneading pin for my upright Zoji. Where can I get another one? Many thanks for your hlep! ...Vic ------------------------------------------------------------------ Vickie C . Marlatt Department of Atmospheric Science phone: 970-491-8613 Colorado State University fax: 970-491-8449 Fort Collins, CO 80523-1371 vickie@.atmos.colostate.edu ------------------------------------------------------------------- --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v097.n078.4 --------------- From: Ann Schemmer Subject: freezing bread Date: Sun, 14 Dec 1997 12:10:13 -0600 Hi Bill, I have found that the best way to keep bread fresh is to wrap each cooled loaf in foil, individually, and then put them in freezer type zip bags. the double wrapping seems to keep them from losing moisture over time...try it .....works for me... Ann S --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v097.n078.5 --------------- From: qoe@sna.com Subject: added M&Ms becoming one with the dough Date: Sun, 14 Dec 1997 09:54:49 -0800 (PST) <> My Zoji would chew them up and would they'd almost become "one with the dough". There would be probably some brightly colored flakes and chocolate in the bread. If I wanted whole M&Ms I would try using the dough feature and gently knead them in my hand. Lynne --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v097.n078.6 --------------- From: Ann Schemmer Subject: scalded milk Date: Sun, 14 Dec 1997 12:23:57 -0600 Hi Caron Rose, Most of my more recent cookbooks say that scalding milk came from the days before pasturization and is not neccessary now. Unless you use fresh dairy milk. Just heating is sufficient. good luck Ann S From: "Caron Rose" Subject: Scalded Milk I'm curious. I've seen a few recipes now, that call for scalded milk. I know how to scald milk, but I'm not really sure what affect scalded milk has on a recipe, as opposed to non(?)scalded milk. Does anyone here know? Thanks, Caron --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v097.n078.7 --------------- From: Mike the Crow Subject: Re: Scalded Milk Date: Sun, 14 Dec 1997 13:04:48 -0600 >I'm curious. I've seen a few recipes now, that call for scalded milk. I >know how to scald milk, but I'm not really sure what affect scalded milk >has on a recipe, as opposed to non(?)scalded milk. Does anyone here know? Raw milk contains enzymes which break down the gluten in dough and prevent it from rising. Scalding the milk breaks these down, as does the dehydration process that creates the ubiquitous nonfat dry milk solids. This used to be a vital step in lacto-breadmaking, but no longer, as most household milk has already been scalded. Nowadays we call it "pasteurization." Source: Greenstein, _Secrets of a Jewish Baker_ -M. ------------ enkidu@mail.utexas.edu "You neee-ver eat the same breakfast twice!" - T.K. Seung, dept. of Philosophy --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v097.n078.8 --------------- From: Ann Schemmer Subject: yeast Date: Sun, 14 Dec 1997 12:15:42 -0600 Hi friend breadbaker, Yes, that bag of yeast is different. it is little round granuals instead of almost a powder. I find that the best way to use it is to do the proofing in warm water with a little sugar before adding to the flour mixture. A hint from one of the bakers here suggested that you take out a couple of months worth and freeze the rest. And always keep it in the refrigerator between bakings...I take mine out of the fridge about 2 hours before using to warm up. good luck. Ann S From: Chettacka Subject: Yeast Date: Sun, 7 Dec 1997 09:21:39 EST A couple weeks into a hand-me-down bread machine, and I discovered the inconvenience of those little yeast packets. The $5-jar of yeast was big news to me!!! Now, a couple months into it, that jar doesn't seem to last very long AND it seems expensive, compared to a 25-pound bag of bread flour. At a local warehouse operations (Sam's Club) they have a larger quantity of yeast (1 pound???) for $2.99. The package says that, once opened, it must be used within 2 weeks. Is this yeast something different from the little jars and packets??? I guess I just have some basic yeast questions and would appreciate any advice/thoughts. --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v097.n078.9 --------------- From: DebHSN Subject: yeast Date: Sun, 14 Dec 1997 15:33:47 EST Chet wrote asking about yeast. I can share from my experience that buying yeast at the grocery gets expensive, and trying to keep it on hand can mean making LOTS of trips to the store! The yeast that Sams and other buying clubs sell may be the same that you are buying--read the label. Instant yeast is not the same as active dry yeast; they are the two varieties that I see most often sold. I prefer buying active dry yeast--I have found a health food store that sells it by the pound for a great price. I keep it in the freezer when not in use, and have never had it go bad on me. Always proof it in warm water before using in your recipe, and you should have no problems. Any good bread baking book should have lots of information on yeast--try Laurel's Kitchen Bread Book as an example. I learned a lot there! Deb --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v097.n078.10 --------------- From: Ruth Warren Subject: Answers. Date: Sun, 14 Dec 1997 16:09:29 -0600 Rocky Hurley: If you haven't gotten a sourdough recipe yet, let me know, there are several good ones in each bread machine cookbook. Also on the net. Try Fleishmann's site http://www.breadworld.com or Kitchen Link. The best (I think) are in Donna German's Sourdough Cookbook. Bill Proctor: Don't remember where I read it, but use this tip in teaching. Wrap breads in plastic (ziploc bag will be fine) and freeze. Just take out of freezer and sit on counter, in plastic. Chettaka: Just put a small amount of yeast in jar and put rest in ziploc (being sure there is no air) and freeze the yeast. Store jar in fridge. Red Star has excellent helps, just call 800 number on packages. I buy regular yeast in 2 pound packages and have kept it that way for a year. The instant yeast I can get in 1 pound packages. And I do prefer Red Star. --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v097.n078.11 --------------- From: Raphael Ryan Subject: Scalded Milk Date: Sun, 14 Dec 1997 19:08:10 -0600 Caron wrote: "I'm curious. I've seen a few recipes now, that call for scalded milk. I know how to scald milk, but I'm not really sure what affect scalded milk has on a recipe, as opposed to non(?)scalded milk. Does anyone here know?" Thanks, Caron ~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Caron: Way back when raw milk usage was common, yeast recipes called for scalding the milk since raw milk has enzymes which retard the yeast. The enzymes are killed in pasteurization so I seriously doubt the need of scalding the milk in the U.S. today - unless you have your own cow. Raphael --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v097.n078.12 --------------- From: Raphael Ryan Subject: Yeast: Bulk yeast - easy to use & lots cheaper Date: Sun, 14 Dec 1997 19:01:01 -0600 Chet wrote: ...At a local warehouse operations (Sam's Club) they have a larger quantity of yeast (1 pound???) for $2.99. The package says that, once opened, it must be used within 2 weeks... ~~~~~~~~~~~ I've been buying my granulated yeast in bulk for 30 years, and from Sam's Club for the last several years. Here is the way I handle it: Open the large bag and put it into several smaller glass jars with tight lids. Freeze it. Keep the jars frozen, taking the current one out of the freezer only long enough to measure out the quantity needed.The yeast will keep in the freezer for a couple of years if in a glass jar with a tight lid. My large loaf takes one rounded teaspoon of yeast but you'll have to adjust the quantity to suit the loaf you're making. Raphael --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v097.n078.13 --------------- From: TShea66106 Subject: Pocketless Pita Bread Date: Sat, 20 Dec 1997 18:32:44 EST Does anyone have a recipe for pocketless pita breads like the ones used for Greek gyro sandwiches and the “wrap” sandwiches at Wendy’s? They appear to be grilled rather than baked, but are much thicker than a flour tortilla. I saw some for sale at Sam’s Wholesale Club, but didn’t think my family of four could consume 4 dozen before they went bad! Cindi in Kansas City GO CHIEFS!!! --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v097.n078.14 --------------- From: BreadMagician@prodigy.com ( LINDA REHBERG) Subject: Scalding milk Date: Sat, 20 Dec 1997 15:20:07, -0500 To Caron Rose: Scalding milk was a normal step in making bread many years ago before milk was pasteurized because it contained an enzyme that interfered with the yeast's development. Heating milk broke down that enzyme. Of course, these days pasteurization does that for us so there's no need to scald the milk anymore. Linda Rehberg co-author of the BREAD MACHINE MAGIC books --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v097.n078.15 --------------- From: "Ken and Mary Ann Vaugnan" Subject: Flavor of breads (yeast) Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 12:32:01 -0900 Some of the recent discussion caused me to remember an article documenting an examnation of flavors of bread made with different yeasts. The article (Cooks I think) concluded on the basis of test panels on basic white bread that there were differences in the flavors of breads made with different yeasts. As I remember, Fleishman's Instant Yeast was that which tasted best to the panel members. Unfortunatly, I think that yeast does provide a better taste with plain breads, but is not available in bulk cheap. King Arthur does carry it in pound containers at a better price than the grocers, but it costs lots more than the Red Star at Costco. --- Ken's cheap solution -- Use the cheap red star for stronger flavored peasant breads and flat breads and use the good Instant Yeast for plain white bread. Sourdough is another workaround, but presents it's own set of special challenges too. Bottom line -- don't like the flavor of the bread, it might be time to try a different yeast because all yeast strains do not taste the same. --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v097.n078.16 --------------- From: Takt EZ Subject: Re: ABMs and Sourdough Date: Tue, 16 Dec 1997 20:29:39 EST In a message dated 97-12-14 13:50:45 EST, you write: << I hope all of you have a fine and Happy Holidays and all be safe! Now, We finally broke down and bought us an ABM. My most favorite bread is sourdough. My question is this.... Using a homemade starter, how do I make bread in the ABM with it? >> Hi Rocky, and happy holidays to you too. I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but the ABM and sourdough were just not made for one another. That having been said, I assume you're referring to real sourdough bread where there is no commercial yeast added, only the starter is used to leaven the bread. The problem with the ABM and sourdough is in the timing. If you've made sourdough bread, and it sounds like you have, you know that the fermentation and proofing times can take anywhere from 2 1/2 to 6 hours. The ABM operates on a fixed time cycle and that cycle is based on fermentation and proofing times for commercial yeast, which is much faster. Although some bread machines are programmable, this isn't much help either. The fermentation time for sourdough will vary considerably depending on ambient atmospheric conditions so one day you'll bake a doorstop and the next you'll have dough running over the top of your pan. Your only hope is to make sourdough using the starter as a flavoring agent only and adding commercial yeast as the primary leavening agent. Although this can make some nice bread, the true sourdough flavor gets somewhat obliterated by the commercial yeast. Again, sorry for the bad news, but if you want a recipe for ABM sourdough bread using commercial yeast as the primary leavening and the starter as a flavoring only, drop me an e-mail and I'll send it to you. Don --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v097.n078.17 --------------- From: Takt EZ Subject: Re: Bread Machine Cookbook Date: Tue, 16 Dec 1997 20:29:37 EST In a message dated 97-12-14 13:50:45 EST, you write: << I recently got a bread machine (Toastmaster Breadbox 1186) and am looking for a good basic bread machine cookbook. So as not to clutter up my bookshelves, I plan to buy only one or maybe two such books, so they would have to be excellent. >> Hi Josee I have a fairly extensive library of books on the topic of baking with yeast, but if I had to limit myself to just one, it would be The Bread Machine Book Of Helpful Hints by Linda Rehberg and Lois Conway. This book provides the best of all worlds. It not only has a great recipe section but is also very strong technically. For anyone wanting to know more about yeast baking than simply dumping the ingredients it the machine and pressing start, this book is a must. It contains everything the home baker needs and it's presented in a useful, interesting and readable format. In addition, the book is just plain fun to read. I obtained my copy at the local Barnes and Noble store, but it is also available from King Arthur's Bakers Catalog. --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v097.n078.18 --------------- From: Takt EZ Subject: Re: Yeast Date: Tue, 16 Dec 1997 20:29:40 EST In a message dated 97-12-14 13:50:45 EST, you write: << At a local warehouse operations (Sam's Club) they have a larger quantity of yeast (1 pound???) for $2.99. The package says that, once opened, it must be used within 2 weeks. Is this yeast something different from the little jars and packets??? >> Hi Chet I buy my yeast at Sam's Club and it's just great. I assume your store handles the same stuff as ours which is the Red Star Instant Active Yeast. It comes freeze dried in one pound foil packages and sells for $2.99 for two packages, or another words a buck fifty per pound. Once the package is opened the yeast must be used quickly provided it's stored at room temperature, if however, you put the contents of the opened package in a glass jar with a tight fitting lid and store it in the freezer, it will keep for over a year with no loss in activity. Chet, there is no difference between the stuff from Sam's Club, the little package or the jar. It's all basically the same product. It's just one heck of a good deal for those of us who bake all of our own bread. I hope this helps. Don --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v097.n078.19 --------------- From: Takt EZ Subject: Re: Lora brody's Dough Relaxer Help? Date: Tue, 16 Dec 1997 20:29:35 EST In a message dated 97-12-14 13:50:45 EST, you write: << I found an interesting recipe for stollen on the net and it calls for Lora Brody's dough relaxer. What is this exactly? Do yo make it or do you buy it? Help greatly appreciated. Thanks,Aileen >> Hi Aileen Lora Brody's Dough Relaxer is designed to weaken the gluten strands in your dough thereby facilitating easier rolling and shaping. In theory it's a good idea. In reality, it doesn't work very well. Oh, it relaxes the dough alright, in fact it's like a heavy dose of Valium. Problem is, it totally changes the texture, flavor and character of a dough to something much less desirable than it was originally. I have been baking bread and pastry for over 10 years now. Have prepared dough using bread machines, stand mixers and by hand. In that period of time the failures have been minimal, until Lora Brody's Dough Relaxer that is. My first attempt was in a coffee cake dough that I had been making successfully for years. The result was atrocious. Yes, the dough was relaxed. In fact, it was more like knocked out, but it didn't raise properly, the final product was dry, and the flavor was lacking. My second attempt was equally disappointing. To make matters worse, I gave the stuff to my wife to use in a pie crust. An old family recipe that had been used quite successfully for over 60 years. The resulting crust rolled out like a dream. Unfortunately, it couldn't be moved. It was like trying to lift a sheet of jello. After finally getting this blob into the pie pan, it baked up dry and crumbly. The crows in our back yard ate well that day, but needless to say, I fell in great disfavor with my wife. The good news is, our marriage is still intact despite the efforts of Ms. Brody's Dough Relaxer. As you might guess, I have a very low opinion of this product. To anyone thinking of using it, I say, "Use At Your Own Risk." If your recipe calls for it, leave it out, the final product will be improved. Don --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v097.n078.20 --------------- From: jefstone@juno.com (John E Firestone) Subject: Lora Brody's Dough Relaxer--Here's what's in it Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 19:11:55 EST We have a 10 oz. can of Lora Brody's Dough Relaxer that we purchased via the King Arthur Baker's Catalogue @ 1-800-827-6836. The ingredients listed on the can include: Non-fat dry milk, diastatic malt, natural sour dough concentrate, baking powder, canola oil (anti-caking agent). We tried it today and we liked it! My wife traditionally makes Italian fig cookies every Christmas season--those funny little fig cookies with the thin cookie dough on the outside, slits on the side, a citrus icing on top, then sprinkled with multi-colored non-pareils. (Hungry yet??) At any rate, Lora's product made the cookie dough easier to roll out thin enough with less tendency to split or break up or to recoil. She plans to use it every time she makes the cookies from now on. Good luck!! John Firestone, Sr. --------------- END bread-bakers.v097.n078 --------------- -------------- BEGIN bread-bakers.v097.n079 -------------- 001 - D Klement Subject: Yeast Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 21:01:33 -0500 (EST) Hi All, I am new to this list but that Nancy Hill woman from Toronto knows me from another list(...Hi Nancy). About the yeast in the Large can...I know that it says to use it within two weeks but if I keep it in the fridge I am able to keep it for 4-6 months and it performs very well in my B&D BM. I get mine at Costco/Price Club in a 1 lb can. I find it so fresh that I only have to use the amount reccomended for bread machine yeast and not add the extra 1/4 tsp needed when using reg yeast. Hope this helps, Debbie in Hamilton, Ontario, Canada ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ The Klement Family Darryl, Debbie, Kathleen(12),Nathan(7)&Samantha(6) dklement@netcom.ca " Education is what survives when what has been learned has been forgotten " B.F. Skinner in "New Scientist". ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v097.n079.2 --------------- From: josephine@amcigroup.com Subject: Shelf life Date: Fri, 19 Dec 1997 10:22:21 -0500 How long does certain types of flour, semolina, whole wheat, rye stay fresh in a tightly sealed glass cannister? Also, dry milk, what is its shelf life? Thanks --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v097.n079.3 --------------- From: "John Lifer, jr" Subject: RE: Yeast and Spent Grain Date: Sun, 14 Dec 1997 07:18:09 -0600 On the use of Sam's yeast, I bought a double package about 6-8 months ago. Opened one up, put about half in each of two jars, one I put in the fridge, the other I stored on the shelf. I just finished the second jar from the first pack without detecting any changes in the use or quality. The instructions to use it up quick are in my mind for a restaurant which might not store the yeast closed or well. Buy It! As far as the spent grain question, I brew and have tried the spent grain route. Don't really like it, but if you like a lot of roughage in your bread, try it. Substitute a half cup or so in BMaker recipe. Don't over do it. I feed my grain to my seven goats and they eat it up like it is candy. After brewing, the starches are converted to sugar and the grain is sweet( whatever is left) John in Mississippi --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v097.n079.4 --------------- From: BOB FORD Subject: dough enhancer Date: Tue, 16 Dec 1997 10:00:29 -0500 In every loaf of bread I make, I add the following home made dough enhancer. It is much cheaper (and I think better) than the kind you buy prepackaged. 1 EGG and 1 tablespoon of each of the following: VITAMIN C POWDER DRIED TOFU POWDER PECTIN DRY BUTTERMILK POWDER LECITHIN GRANULES MALTED MILK This dough enhancer does wonders for me. If you can not find these ingredients in a grocery store try a health food store. I also cut the salt in half for several reasons. 1. I think most people get too much salt in their diet for good health 2. It make the bread rise higher, especially in wheat breads. 3. I tried several different breads with half the salt and the full amount and I could not tell any difference in the bread. BOB FORD BOB_FORD@COMPUSERVE.COM --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v097.n079.5 --------------- From: Reggie Dwork Subject: Happy Holidays Date: Sun, 21 Dec 1997 22:45:43 -0800 Jeff and I want to wish everyone a very Happy Holiday season!! We also hope that if you are traveling that you have a safe journey. A friend sent us this and we wanted to pass it on to each of you. The Twelve Gifts I Wish for You ... in this special season and all the year through Happiness. Deep down within. Serenity. With each sunrise. Success. In each facet of your life. Family. Beside you. Close and caring friends. Health. Inside you. Love. That never ends. Special memories. Of all the yesterdays. A bright today. With much to be thankful for. A path. That leads to beautiful tomorrows. Dreams. That do their best to come true. Appreciation. Of all the wonderful things about you. Reggie & Jeff --------------- END bread-bakers.v097.n079 --------------- Copyright (c) 1996-2000 Regina Dwork and Jeffrey Dwork All Rights Reserved