Date: Sun, 21 Sep 1997 09:29:16 -0700 (PDT) -------------- BEGIN bread-bakers.v097.n057 -------------- 001 - Ken Calkins Subject: The cost of home baking vs. store-bought. Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 00:14:43 -0400 I have been using my bread machine for nearly a year now, and I'm pleased to say that I am still in love with it. I bake beautiful, fresh loaves at least once a day, and love to try new recipes. My question is this... does anybody know approximately what it costs to make a loaf of bread at home instead of paying over $1 at the store? I buy my flour in bulk at a wholesale warehouse (Price Club/Costco). All other ingredients are bought at the local supermarket. --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v097.n057.2 --------------- From: "Natalie Frankel" Subject: Re: Russian Rye Bread Date: Sun, 14 Sep 1997 15:31:46 -0500 (CDT) Bonni was asking for a Russian Rye Bread using light and dark caraway seeds. I just bought something at Penzey's Spice Shop called Charnuska. The description says 'Known as Kalonji in India. The tiny, black, flavorful seed found on top of Jewish rye bread in N.,Y. City...also called black cumin or Russian caraway. A main ingredient in garam masala. Could this be the black caraway you are referring to? I wanted to use these on a rye bread and was looking for the right recipe. Hopefully, the rye recipe that someone sends in response to Bonni's request will be it. Has anyone used Charnuska on bread? Thanks, Natalie natalie.frankel@mixcom.com --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v097.n057.3 --------------- From: bbriscoe@runestone.net (Bonnie Briscoe) Subject: re: Rye Bricks Date: Sun, 14 Sep 1997 23:19:02 +0100 Bob Turnbull wrote: >I've been having trouble getting rye bread to rise in my West Bend >(America's Best) bread machine. I have had consistently good results >with white and whole wheat however. The rye actually rises well after >mixing but fails to rise again after the first and second kneadings. > >I have tried the following without success: > >Increase sugar >Increase yeast >Different yeast (Red Star regular - and rapid rise) >Increased salt (extra 1/2t like all other West Bend recipes) >Additional Gluten (1 or 2T in place of equal amount of white flour) >Moisture levels appear similar to successful white and whole wheat >batches. I never had good luck with recipes using lots of whole-grain flour when I used a West Bend bread machine either. (I solved the problem by switching to a Zojiruchi.) Of the list of things you tried, I would say that increasing salt would be least likely to succeed, because salt inhibits the action of yeast. Have you tried adding an acidifier to the recipe? I like to use 3 or 4 tablespoons of buttermilk powder in rye bread; it boosts the yeast and adds a tangy flavor. >Would dark vs. medium rye have any effect? What is the difference >between medium and dark rye? Is it a milling difference or a different >variety of rye? I believe it is a milling difference, with the dark rye being more coarsely ground (sometimes I've found it labeled as pumpernickel rye flour). I prefer the coarse texture, and have used this flour in recipes calling for medium rye with no problems. Have you tried removing the dough from the ABM and placing it in a loaf pan for the final rising, and then baking in an oven? If this produces good bread, then you know the problem is with the bread machine, or perhaps the recipe's response to the ABM's programmed cycle. Good luck! Bonnie Briscoe bbriscoe@runestone.net --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v097.n057.4 --------------- From: Reggie Dwork Subject: Yogurt Herb Bread Date: Sun, 14 Sep 1997 11:53:48 -0700 Here is a hand made bread for all of you who prefer to use this method of bread baking. I personally think that any bread no matter what method is wonderful!! Reggie * Exported from MasterCook * Yogurt Herb Bread Recipe By : TOH, Apr/May 1997 Serving Size : 32 Preparation Time :0:00 Categories : Bread-Bakers Mailing List Breads Hand Made Low Fat Amount Measure Ingredient -- Preparation Method -------- ------------ -------------------------------- - 2 Loaves: 5 1/2 C All-Purpose Flour -- To 6 1/2 C 1/2 Tsp Active Dry Yeast 2 Tbsp Sugar 2 Tsp Salt 1 C Water 1 C Plain Yogurt -- (8 Oz.) 3 Tbsp Vegetable Oil 1 Tsp Dill Weed 1/2 Tsp Dried Chives 1/4 Tsp Dried Oregano 1/4 Tsp Dried Thyme 1/4 Tsp Dried Basil In a large mixing bowl, combine 2 1/2 C flour, yeast, sugar and salt. In a small saucepan, heat water and yogurt to 120 - 130F. Add to flour mixture; mix well. Add oil, herbs and enough of the remaining flour to form a stiff dough. Turn onto a floured surface; knead until smooth and elastic, about 6 - 8 min. Place in a greased bowl, turning once to grease top. Cover and let rise in a warm place until doubled, about 1 hr. Punch dough down; shape into 2 loaves. Place in two greased 8 x 4 x 2" loaf pans. Cover and let rise until doubled, about 1 hr. Bake at 375F for 35 - 40 min or until golden brown. Remove from pans to cool on wire racks. Yield: 2 loaves (32 slices) Diabetic Exchanges: 1 slice (prepared with lowfat yogurt) equals: 1 1/2 Starch; also 113 Cal, 139 mg Sod, trace Chole, 21g Carb, 3g Pro, 2g Fat Entered into MasterCook by Reggie Dwork - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Nutr. Assoc. : 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 356 0 0 0 --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v097.n057.5 --------------- From: "Robin Carroll-Mann" Subject: Re: Converting bread machine recipes Date: Sun, 14 Sep 1997 18:43:06 +0000 Terry & Kathleen Schuller said: >Once you understand the breakmaking process it is not too difficult >to convert bread machine recipes to hand made ones. But I think you >need to understand the basic process first. I agree! I make bread in my KitchenAid mixer, and many of my favorite recipes were written for bread machines. They have all converted nicely. I use Red Star Yeast, which I buy in bulk at Costo (I freeze most of it, and keep a smaller supply in the fridge). I heat the specified amount of liquid to warm (no higher than 110 F), add the other ingredients, including the yeast and all but 1 cup of the flour. Then I add as much of the remaining flour as I need to make a dough that's just right. By now, I know from experience what proper dough looks like and feels like. I let the machine knead for about 8 minutes after the initial mixing is complete. (Meanwhile, I toss my measuring stuff into the dishwasher.) I lightly grease a plastic container with spray oil. I have a set of containers that I got at Costco, different sizes, all with lids and measurements markings on the sides in 1/2 quart and 1/2 liter units. I'm bad at estimating "until doubled" by eye, but with these containers, I know for sure. In warmer weather, I often just leave the covered container on the counter. When it's cold, I put it inside my (electric) oven with the light switched on. The small bulb of the oven light is enough to warm the inside to about 80 F -- just right for dough. I punch down my risen dough and put the loaf into my favorite bread pan. It's a heavy steel one with a non-stick coating that I got at the King Arthur store. It bakes evenly and cleans easily. I pre-heat my oven to 375 F. This temperature seems to work well for all basic bread recipes. Depending on the weather, I might just leave the pan on the counter, covered with wax paper. Or I might put it in the microwave (away from drafts). Often, I set it on the rack of my broiler pan, having first filled the lower part of the pan with hot water. I let the loaf rise until the dough is slightly above the top of the pan -- but no more than 1 inch. I put the pan in the oven and check it at the 30 minute mark. I do the "thump it on the bottom and see if it sounds hollow" test for doneness, but if I'm not quite sure, I'll stick a meat thermometer into the loaf. A reading of 190-200 F means it's done. Then I take it out of the pan, cool it on a rack, and try to resist the temptation to devour half the loaf when it's cooling. Harper *** Robin Carroll-Mann harper @ idt.net "Mostly Harmless" -- Douglas Adams Harper's Bread Basket http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/3967 --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v097.n057.6 --------------- From: Randolph Cooper Subject: Re: Rye Bread--one I enjoyed Date: Sun, 14 Sep 1997 22:28:40 -0500 Bonni Lee Brown inquired: >I'm looking for a recipe for Russian Rye bread...not a black or marbled >bread, but a lightly colored rye with glazed crisp crust and both brown >and black caraway seeds. Does it ring a bell for anyone? I make bread >using a KitchenAid. Thanks in advance. I don't think I have a precise match for that description. Sounds wonderful though. When it comes to glazed loaves, I love balls rather than my trusty machine. Properly basted domed shaped loaves are the food of the gods. Your query reminded of a buttermilk rye I made so I'll let you ponder it. I wish I knew who the source for this was so I could thank them. Hope you find what you're looking for. MMMMM----- Recipe via Meal-Master (tm) v8.05 Title: Finnish Holiday Rye bread) Categories: Bread, Finland Yield: 6 Servings 2 c Buttermilk 1/2 c Molasses 1/4 c Butter or margarine 2 ts Salt 1 ts Fennel seeds 1 ts Caraway seeds 2 tb Dry yeast 1/2 c Warm water Grated rind of 1 orange 1 c Rye flakes or wheat germ 2 c Dark or light rye flour 3 1/2 To 4 1/2 cups uncleached -white or whole wheat flour Glaze: 1 tb Molasses 2 tb Water Similar to Swedish rye. Can be toasted. Heat the buttermilk, molasses, butter or margarine, salt, fennel seeds, and caraway seeds until the butter melts. Set aside to cool. Dissolve the yeast in the warm water. Let it stand for 5 minutes until the yeast bubbles. ((My comment: whisk in some flour and molasses to nourish the yeast.)) Add the yeast to the cooled buttermilk mixture along with the grated orange rind, rye flakes or wheat germ, and rye flour. Beat well until smooth. Add 3 to 3 1/2 cups of wheat flour, stirring in a cup at a time, until the dough will not readily absorb more flour. The dough will be rough. Flour a work surface with the remaining wheat flour and turn the dough out onto it. Cover the dough with a damp cloth and let it rest for 15 minutes. (The gluten in rye is more fragile than in wheat. It needs a resting time to recuperate and reform and does not require as vigorous or lengthy a kneading). Gently knead the dough for 5 to 10 minutes until smooth. Form the dough into a ball and place it in a large buttered bowl or pot, turning it to coat all sides with butter. Cover it and let it rise, in a warm spot, until doubled in size, about an hour. Punch down the dough and gently knead it for one minute. Form the dough into three round loaves and place in lightly buttered 9-inch cake pans or on buttered baking sheets. Cover and let rise until almost doubled in size, 45 minutes to an hour. Preheat the oven to 375 degrees. Combine the water and molasses, brush the tops with half of this mixture to glaze. Then lightly pierce the loaves all over with a fork. Bake for 35 to 45 minutes, until the bread sopunds hollow when tapped on the bottom. While the bread is hot, brush it with the remaining glaze. Remove the loaves from the pans and cool on racks. Yields 3 loaves. MMMMM --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v097.n057.7 --------------- From: Ken Calkins Subject: Looking for recipe for Cheese Bread Sticks Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 00:16:40 -0400 Hello! I am looking for a reliable recipe for Cheese Bread Sticks. My children love the sticks I sometimes buy at the bakery, and I would love to create them at home myself, which will be cheaper and more convenient. Help Anybody?? --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v097.n057.8 --------------- From: Gerhard and Una Kronshage Subject: Re: Flour Power Date: Sun, 14 Sep 1997 21:19:15 -0600 In response to Sam Hurwitz's question re use of various flours: to get the health benefits of soy, I replace 1/4 cup of white bread flour with 1/4 cup of soy flour in all of my breads. Una Kronshage --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v097.n057.9 --------------- From: Vickie Kelley Subject: Bread w/o added sugars Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 08:30:20 +0100 Does anyone know of a good recipe for whole grain bread (no white flour) that contains NO sugars (sugar, honey, molasses, etc.)? I'm hoping for a recipe that will still rise well, I have a zoji. THANKS! ------------------------------------------------------------------ Vickie C . Kelley Department of Atmospheric Science phone: 970-491-8613 Colorado State University fax: 970-491-8449 Fort Collins, CO 80523-1371 vickie@.atmos.colostate.edu _0 - \< - (*) (*) ------------------------------------------------------------------- --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v097.n057.10 --------------- From: beartooth@mcn.net (Beartooth Ranch) Subject: Pan Sizes Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 21:44:37 -1000 Hello to all! I've got a question about pan sizes for quick breads. Approximately how many cups of flour does a loaf of bread that fits in a 9x5x3-inch pan take, as opposed to a loaf that fits into an 8 1/2 x4 1/2 x3-inch pan? Thanks to anyone who can set me straight on this. K. A. Langston --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v097.n057.11 --------------- From: Grimer Subject: No salt Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 12:45:23 +0000 For health reasons, I need to make bread (in bread machine) without any salt. Would it be as simple as to just eliminate the salt and carry on with the same recipies I always make, or would the ingredients react in a different way? I am only trying to make normal, everyday kind of bread. Thanks for any help. Isa --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v097.n057.12 --------------- From: "Ricardo Roselli Guersia" Subject: Panettone Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 21:47:29 -0300 Hey everyone! I've been following this list for a few weeks now, but this is my first participation in it. I've been trying to make Panettone at home, but I haven't been satisfied with the results I've gotten so far. I'd like to have other recipes to compare with mine. Someone told me that Carol Field has a very good one in her book The Italian Baker, but I don't feel like buying a whole book just because of one recipe... Thanks a lot, Ricardo Roselli Guersia (Sao Paulo, Brazil) ricguers@nutecnet.com.br --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v097.n057.13 --------------- From: Dan Erwin Subject: A different style to make Focaccia Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 08:14:32 -0500 The recipe below can be used as a horizontally sliced bun or perhaps as a pull-apart crunchy snack. The basic dough recipe is from Betsy Oppenneer's book 'The Bread Book'. It is her Kaiser roll recipe. The herbs were used for my personal preferences as were their quantities listed. At a fancy restaurant I saw the style of bread as a part of a rather expensive entre. Though I have very little experience with bread machines I am certain that many of you who do have the experience could adjust the quantities properly for the dough setting. After the dough is made the forming and baking is all by hand. Dan Erwin * Exported from MasterCook * Country Herb Rolls Recipe By : BH&G, Simply Perfect Baking Serving Size : 24 Preparation Time :0:00 Categories : Bread/Muffins/Rolls Hand Made Low Fat Bread-Bakers Mailing List Amount Measure Ingredient -- Preparation Method -------- ------------ -------------------------------- 3 1/4 C All-Purpose Flour -- To 3 3/4 C 1/2 C Yellow Cornmeal 2 1/4 Tsp Active Dry Yeast 1/2 Tsp Dried Basil -- Crushed 1/2 Tsp Dried Oregano 3/4 C Nonfat Milk -- *Note 1/3 C Icbinb-Light -- **Note 1/4 C Sugar 1/2 Tsp Salt 1/2 C Egg Beaters 99% Egg Substitute -- Or Equiv To 2 Eggs 3 Tbsp Icbinb-Light -- Melted, ***Note *NOTE: Original recipe used regular milk **NOTE: Original recipe used regular butter or margarine ***NOTE: Original recipe used regular butter or margarine Combine 1 C of the flour, cornmeal, yeast, basil and oregano in a large mixing bowl; set aside. Heat and stir milk, the 1/3 C butter or margarine, sugar, and salt in a saucepan just till warm (120 - 130 deg F) and butter or margarine almost melts. Add to flour mixture; add eggs. Beat with an electric mixer on low to med speed for 30 seconds, scraping bowl. Beat on high speed for 3 min. Stir in as much of the remaining flour as you can. Knead dough on a lightly floured surface, kneading in enough remaining flour to make a moderately stiff dough that is smooth and elastic (6 - 8 min total). Shape into a ball. Place dough in a lightly greased bowl; turn once to grease surface. Cover and let rise in a warm place till double (about 1 hr). Punch dough down. turn out onto a floured surface. Cover and let rest for 10 min. Shape as desired. Place rolls 3" apart on greased baking sheets. Cover and let rise till nearly double (about 20 min). Brush tops of rolls with the 3 T melted butter or margarine. Bake in a 375 deg F oven about 12 min or till golden. Cool on a wire rack. Makes 24 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v097.n057.14 --------------- From: Reggie Dwork Subject: Oatmeal Batter Bread Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 16:35:19 -0700 This is a really wonderful bread!! Very tasty and easy to put together. Reggie * Exported from MasterCook * Oatmeal Batter Bread Recipe By : GH, Oct 1997 Serving Size : 24 Preparation Time :0:00 Categories : Breads Grains Hand Made Low Fat Bread-Bakers Mailing List Eat-Lf Mailing List Amount Measure Ingredient -- Preparation Method -------- ------------ -------------------------------- - 2 Loaves: 2 Pkg Active Dry Yeast 2 Tsp Salt 5 C All-Purpose Flour 1 C Quick-Cooking Oats -- Uncooked 1/2 C Light Molasses 1 Tbsp Butter Or Margarine -- Plus 2 Tsp Butter Or Margarine -- For Glazing 2 1/4 C Water Prep: 20 min plus rising and cooling Bake: 40 min Makes: 2 loaves, 12 servings each In large bowl, combine yeast, salt and 2 C flour. In 2 qt saucepan, mix oats, molasses, 1 T margarine, and 2 1/4 C water. Heat over low heat until very warm (120-130F); margarine need not melt. With mixer at low speed, gradually beat liquid into flour mixture just until blended. Increase speed to med; beat 2 min. Beat in 1/2 C flour to make a thick batter; beat 2 min longer, scraping bowl frequently with a rubber spatula. With wooden spoon, stir in remaining 2 1/2 C flour to make a stiff batter that leaves side of bowl. Cover bowl loosely with plastic wrap; let dough rise in warm place (80-85F) about 1 hr, until doubled. Grease two 2 qt round, shallow casseroles. With wooden spoon, stir down batter. Divide in half and turn into casseroles; with greased fingers, turn to grease tops and shape each into a ball. Cover loosely with plastic wrap; let rise in warm place about 45 min, until doubled. Preheat oven to 350F. Bake 40 min, or until loaves sound hollow when lightly tapped with fingers. Remove loaves from casseroles. If you like, for a soft crust, rub tops with remaining 2 tsp softened margarine cool on wire racks. INFO: Batter breads are a quick way to enjoy yeast breads. Because they don't require kneading, the relatively soft, sticky batter usually calls for vigorous beating to develop the gluten, which gives the bread its structure and allows it to rise. Batter breads have a rustic appearance. Although the texture won't be as fine-crumbed as bread that has been kneaded, the taste is still delicious. This is an amazing tasting loaf of bread!! Absolutely wonderful. Entered into MasterCook and tested for you by Reggie & Jeff Dwork - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - NOTES : Cal 134.3 Fat 1.3g Carb 26.8g Fib 0.6g Pro 3.6g Sod 189mg CFF 8.8% --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v097.n057.15 --------------- From: bbriscoe@runestone.net (Bonnie Briscoe) Subject: grain mill summary/garbage text Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 23:03:49 +0100 I have no idea why my message to the list in Digest bread-bakers.v097.n055 transformed each of the equal sign characters into this mess (=3D), or why the word "from" at the beginning of several sections was messed up. If anyone wants me to send the message directly to you (with the hope of getting it without all the garbage text), please notify me by private e-mail and I'll be glad to give it a try. Bonnie Briscoe bbriscoe@runestone.net --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v097.n057.16 --------------- From: Reggie Dwork Subject: = signs in the message Date: Sat, 20 Sep 1997 23:40:12 -0700 Bonnie (and everyone), When you see posts with '=3D' etc it is because your email program is encoding the message so that all the characters will get thru. The list software doesn't decode anything and once it gets in digest your receiving email program doesn't know to decode it so you see it in the digest. To prevent it you need to restrict your message to the basic ascii characters: A-Za-z0-9`~!@#$%^&*()_-+=}{[]"':;/?><,.|\ Don't use any fancy characters that you don't see on a typewriter or pc keyboard. Also, don't use any bold italics etc stuff that your word processor can do. And don't let any line get longer than 70 characters. Turn off quoted-printable (QP) encoding in your email program before sending the message. Jeff --------------- END bread-bakers.v097.n057 --------------- Copyright (c) 1996-2000 Regina Dwork and Jeffrey Dwork All Rights Reserved