Date: Sat, 29 Mar 1997 14:51:00 -0800 (PST) -------------- BEGIN bread-bakers.v097.n025 -------------- 001 - "Arnold Elser" Subject: Bagels Date: Sun, 16 Mar 97 16:39:53 UT What is a bagel? A bagel is traditionally a hefty, dense ring of somewhat bland tasting bread. But with different flours, such as rye and wheat, bagels take on different tastes. Add raisins, blueberries, strawberries, dates and nuts for a dessert-like bagel. Add veggies, onions, poppy seeds, peanut butter and other ingredients for an infinite variety of taste combinations. The popularity of bagels is as much attributed to what you can put on them and in them as to what you add to the unbaked dough. They are the perfect vehicles for spreads. Most often spreads consist of a cream cheese base that may be mixed with salmon or lox, fruits, vegetables and spices -- in myriad combinations. There are regional differences in how bagels are made, and ongoing arguments about what constitutes the "perfect" bagel and best spread combination. The traditional bagel sandwich consists of cream cheese, lox, a slice of onion and a slice of tomato. But that's only the beginning. Bagel sandwiches are so popular that bagel bakeries often list 40 or 50 sandwich variations on their menus. then there are mini bagels and bialys. For catered bagel brunches, there are 3- to 6- pound bagels that are filled and then cut into pie shaped wedges. Bagels have a lot going for them. They don't crush or smash while being carried; they don't melt from the heat or suffer from freezing. They're at their optimum goodness when fresh and hot from out of the oven, but they're delicious, too, even when frozen, thawed and toasted. If they get stale, they can be made into bagel chips or ground into bread crumbs. They're an all-around convenient, no-waste food product that is well suited to today's health conscious consumers. The plain water bagel is low in calories compared to other traditional breakfast foods. Estimates as to the number of calories in a bagel differ, and its size is a factor. Most bagels weigh 4 to 5 ounces, and tally up to between 150 to 200 calories. The addition of nuts, raisins, berries, chocolate chips and other ingredients will add to the count. I saw a cracked wheat bagel in a health food store that had 320 calories. Some bagels weigh 6 ounces. Mini bagels may be 1 to 3 ounces, so the calories vary accordingly. It's the toppings and spreads that shoot up the calorie tab, though this can be tempered by using light and fat-free cheeses, and spreads without cheese. A whopping dollop of cream cheese slapped onto each half of a bagel (2 tablespoons of cream cheese have 10 grams of fat and 100 calories) will wipe out the innocence of the plain bagel. Two tablespoons of regular preserves (there are sugar free varieties, too) can add on 50 calories but no fat. And peanut butter? Well, you would rather not know, if you're counting calories and grams of fat. Still, you're better off with bagels than with a doughnut, which has 176 calories and 11 grams of fat. A homemade bran muffin (not the giant restaurant or bakery size) has 112 calories and 5 grams of fat. A large croissant has 300 calories, 17 grams of fat and 85 milligrams of cholesterol. The butter will do it every time. There is no butter in a bagel recipe. Only egg bagels have cholesterol; even that can be eliminated using egg whites instead of a whole egg (or 1/4 cup liquid egg substitute). But a sweet roll with nut and raisin Danish filing, and icing, can top them all with about 360 calories, 2.3 grams of fat and 82.2 milligrams of cholesterol. The Best Bagels are made at home Donna Z. Meilach ISBN 1-55867-131-5 Carolyn Shaw April 1996 From: Homenet Cook ABOUT BAGELS -- GENERAL DIRECTIONS The process is simple. Initially, the boiling procedure may seem strange, but once you've done it, you'll wonder why you hesitated. Just boil a pot of water as you would for spaghetti, and boil the shaped bagel for about 2 minutes, turning once. Your first few bagels may not come out round and smooth on top, but they'll taste good anyway. Be patient. The second batch will look better; by the third, you mat think you're ready to go into business. Basically, these are the basic steps required to make bagels. We'll go into each in detail. 1. Mix, knead and first rise: Mix flour, water, salt, sugar (or malt or honey) and yeast, knead them and let the dough rise for about an hour. Mixing and kneading can be done in a bread machine, a food processor, a heavy duty mixer, or by hand. this same procedure is used to make any yeast bread. 2. Shape bagels: Form the dough into the traditional bagel shape by rolling, poking a hole in a ball or using a bagel cutter. 3. Second rise: Allow a short rest and second rise period, about 20 minutes. 4. Boil or "kettle": Drop the bagels into boiling water for 1 to 3 minutes and drain. You can bake immediately or refrigerate for 1 to 24 hours. 5. Glaze and apply topping: This step is not essential to the final product. 6. Bake: Bake in a preheated oven for 20 to 35 minutes. STEP 1: MIX, KNEAD AND FIRST RISE: The Bread Machine: The bread machine yields excellent results every time when you use fresh ingredients and follow directions. Set the machine on "dough cycle", and let it produce a dough with the texture of velvet and the stiff consistency required. When using a bread machine, add ingredients in the order recommended in your manufacturer's instructions. The recipes in this series have ingredients listed for machines that require adding liquids first and dry components last. Reverse the order for those that add dry ingredients first and wet ones last. Process on the "dough mode," or "program", or "mix bread cycle" or whatever it is termed by your machine's instructions. Allow the dough to rise through the full first rise period after the kneading phase, between 35 minutes and 1 hour. On shorter cycles, and depending on the weather and moisture of the ingredients, you may have to leave it in the machine for 10 or 15 minutes longer, or until the dough fills about 2/3 of the pan. Whole grain flours may require up to 1 to 2 hours for the first rise. Do not allow the dough to bake in the machine. Dry ingredients such as spices, cinnamon, nutmeg and finely chopped nuts are added with the fours at the beginning. Wet ingredients such as mashed bananas, applesauce, pumpkin, grated carrots and frozen berries are added with the liquids, but if you add more wet ingredients to the recipes in this series, their liquid content must replace an equal amount of liquid. Adding raisins and other dried fruits at the beginning is not recommended; most bread machines pulverize them so they're hardly visible in the finished bagel. Check dough about 5 minutes after you have started the machine. The dough should form a nice round ball. If a ball doesn't form, and the mixture appears crumbly, add water, a tablespoon or less at a time, until the correct consistency is achieved. If dough looks too wet or formless, add flour, a tablespoon or less at a time, until the dough forms a ball. Add ingredients such as raisins, dates, chocolate chips and apple pieces about 5 to 8 minutes before the end of the kneading phase. Some machine beep to indicate the optimum time to add nuts or raisins. Check your manufacturers instructions for the time required for each process in the dough cycle. If your machine does not provide this timed signal, determine the length of the kneading phase and set a timer for 5 minutes before the end; then open the machine and carefully add the ingredients, being sure that they do not spill onto the heating elements. Ingredients can also be kneaded into the dough by hand after it is removed from the machine. NOTE: When adding reconstituted dried foods to the dough in a bread machine (5 to 10 minutes before the end of the kneading phase), foods should be blotted very dry with a paper towel so that any retained moisture does not change the texture of the dough and inhibit it from rising properly. A 60 minute rise period is ideal. It's ok to open the machine and quickly test the dough during the rise period. Gently push your finger into the dough, and if the dent remains, dough is ready. If the impression bounces back, let dough rise a few minutes longer and retest. Dough can become slack if allowed to rise too long. White flour rises highest. White flour combined with whole wheat, rye and oats will not rise as high. Generally, the darker the dough, the lower the rise and the longer it takes. When ready, remove dough form the pan and proceed to Shape Bagels. THE FOOD PROCESSOR A food processor will knead dough ingredients very quickly and easily. It will reduce the process to a few minutes, even cutting down the time of the a bread machine. Our testers found the results extremely reliable. One tester much preferred it to the bread machine because he was in charge all the way and never had a failure. By mixing and kneading in the food processor and allowing the dough to rise in the microwave, bagels can be ready for boiling in under a half hour. You can optionally use the microwave for the first rise for dough that has been mixed in the bread machine, by hand or with an electric mixer. Then work the flavoring ingredients into the dough after the first rise as you would for dough made in the bread machine. Either active dry yeast or fast-rising yeast can be used. 1. Mix 1/4 of the liquid to 110-115 degrees in the microwave and add to the yeast and sugar in a small cup. Mix gently and let sit for 5 minutes. Pour remaining liquid in a cup and make it very cool, right out of the refrigerator, or add an ice cube. 2. Put the metal cutting blade into the food processor bowl. Measure flour and salt and put them into the processor bowl. Pulse tow or three times, just enough to mix the flour and salt. Add any oil or butter and pulse until it disappears, tow or three pulses. NOTE: Most food processors can mix 3 1/4 to 3 1/2 cups of flour. However, it's possible to mix a larger or double batch of dough. If the machine balks, it will stop automatically. Let it cool down and restart it. Or divide dough in half and continue processing each half separately. When mixed, knead the two batches together. 3. Pour yeast mixture into flour through the feeding tube and pulse for another 5 or 10 seconds until it forms a ball. Pulse a few more times to knead. When dough appears to come away from sides, it is ready. 4. Remove dough from the processor bowl and hand-knead to remove any gases. Let it rest for about 5 minutes. If it's not elastic enough, add a few more drops of water; if it's still too sticky, add a sprinkle of flour until it is smooth, velvety and elastic. The first rise can be done in a microwave oven in about 15 minutes or in a bowl in a draft-free environment for about 1 hour. Microwave ovens vary in wattage, so the rise period and settings may vary. You may have to experiment. To use a microwave oven, after the dough is kneaded, carefully remove it and the metal blade from the processor bowl. Form dough into a rectangle long enough to wrap once around the processor bowl. Grease dough with oil or nonstick vegetable spray, but do not cover bowl. (Be sure the bowl has no metal parts.) Place the bowl in the microwave. Method 1: Microwave on LOW (30%), or DEFROST (about 30%), for 1 minute. Let rest for 10 minutes. Repeat microwaving and resting 1 to 2 times, until the dough has doubled in size. Test with your fingers until a dent remains. If the dough springs back and dough has not doubled, microwave once more for a few minutes until a dent does remain and dough appears doubled in size. Method 2: Or, place dough in the processor bowl as instructed. Position an 8-ounce microwave-safe cup filled with water in the back corner of the microwave. cover the processor bowl lightly with a damp tea towel or plastic wrap and place it in the microwave on LOW (30%), or DEFROST (30%) setting. Heat for 3 minutes, rest for 3 minutes, heat for 3 minutes and rest for 6 minutes, repeating the 3-minute heat and the 6-minute rest once or twice if necessary, until dough has doubled in bulk. To allow dough to rise in a draft free environment, place dough in a large bowl lightly oiled with vegetable oil. Turn dough so all surfaces are greased. Cover with plastic wrap sprayed with nonstick vegetable spray and let rise until doubled in bulk, about 1 to 2 hours. Proceed to Shape Bagels. THE HEAVY DUTY MIXER WITH A DOUGH HOOK A heavy duty electric mixer with a dough hook will make short work of mixing small or large batches of dough quickly. Combine the warm liquid (110-115 degrees), syrup, honey or sugar, oil and yeast, and then add half the flour and all other dry ingredients. Add remaining flour until a ball forms. The dough hook will do part or all of the kneading, which should take about 5 minutes. If the dough begins to strain the machine, add more water so it becomes softer (check your manufacturer's directions; a heavy duty mixer with a dough hook should have no problem kneading). When dough appears near desired consistency, remove it from the bowl and knead in extra dough until it forms a soft ball. Follow the same first rise procedures as in the hand mixing or food processor methods. If a fast-rising yeast is used, the first rise is not necessary. Proceed to Shape Bagels. BY HAND: Mix together warm water (110-115 degrees), yeast and 1 tsp. sugar and let stand for 5 minutes. In a large bowl, add remaining sugar, salt and 2 cups flour. Stir in the yeast mixture. Add remaining flour, stirring to form dough. Turn dough out onto a lightly floured board. Knead dough by hand, adding more flour as necessary, for 10 to 15 minutes until dough is smooth, shiny, stiff and elastic. Keep the board and your hands dusted with flour to prevent sticking. Knead by pushing down on the dough with the palms of your hands, exerting pressure from your shoulders. Lift the dough from the top edge, turn it a quarter turn, fold it in half, press again, turn, fold, press, and repeat the process until dough forms a cohesive ball. When the dough is no longer sticky, stretch it to help develop elasticity. Knead it a few more times (by now you should be about ready to drop dead and buy frozen Lender's .) Drop it on your board, lift it, pick it up again and drop it again, continuing to stretch, drop and knead a few more times. If it becomes too stiff, add a few drops of water; if too sticky, add a little more flour. When optimally kneaded and shaped into a ball, dough will spring back when poked gently. Place dough in a lightly greased bowl. Turn dough so all surfaces are greased. cover with a sheet of plastic wrap sprayed with nonstick vegetable spray and let rise until doubled in bulk, about an hour. the test for proper rising, which about doubles the mass of the dough in size, is to poke two fingers lightly and quickly about 1/2" into dough. If dent stays, dough is doubled. Proceed to Shape Bagels STEP 2: SHAPE BAGELS Prepare baking sheets by lightly greasing them with nonstick vegetable spray, or oil with a little vegetable oil spread with your fingertips or waxed paper. Reach into the bread machine pan and pull dough out (if it is slightly sticky, dip your fingers into flour first.) Some machines punch dough down automatically at the end of the rise cycle, and just the act of removing the dough from the pan is usually adequate to remove gases, but you may need to punch dough down to remove any remaining air. Or, remove dough from bowl or food processor bowl and punch down. Knead dough once or twice and let it rest for 5 minutes. If the dough is still a little too wet and sticky, lightly flour the bread board or your hands and knead the dough manually, until it has a smooth, elastic consistency. Bagel dough should be stiff but elastic; if it's too stiff, sprinkle a little water on it or moisten your hands and knead the moisture into dough. After you've made one or two batches of bagels, you'll get the feeling of the ideal consistency. Roll and pull dough into a rectangle about 10x14" for a 1-pound recipe and 14x18" for a 1 1/2-pound recipe, and let it rest for 5 minutes. Sprinkle with dried fruits, nuts, vegetables, seeds, spices, chocolate, or any combination of flavorings. Roll dough into a log and knead the ingredients into the dough for a minute or so. The dough should weigh a little more than the size recipe you are using. Divide dough into pieces depending on the size bagel you want. A 1 1/2-pound recipe yields 8 to 12 finished bagels, each weighing 2 to 3 ounces, measuring about 4 inches across. Use a food scale if you want consistency, or measure with a ruler. Cut smaller pieces for mini bagels. Knead in added ingredients well before shaping each bagel. You can also divide dough and add different ingredients to each part so you get a varied batch of bagels from one recipe. Shape using any of the following methods: HOLE IN THE MIDDLE METHOD: Roll each piece of dough into a ball, poke a floured finger through the center to form the hole, and then shape top and smooth sides. Moisten your finger with water, if necessary to smooth. Pull gently to enlarge hole. The resulting bagel is smooth and there is no joint. OR, press the round on your floured board. Using the index fingers of both hands, poke a hole an pull dough until the hole is large, and then round out the bagel and smooth the top and edges. THE HULA HOOP AROUND THE FINGER METHOD: Create a circle without a joint by flattening a ball of dough slightly into a round shape, folding the bottom edge under and smoothing it until it looks like a mushroom top. With a floured index finger, make a hole in the center of the circle from the bottom up. Twirl the circle around your index finger, or two fingers, like a hula-hoop, to widen the hole. Pull out and shape the round. THE ROPE METHOD: Roll each piece of dough into a rope by rolling it on the bread board or between your hands. Wrap the rope around four fingers, overlap and join the ends, and turn the circle inside out. Until you get this hand movement down pat, you may have to moisten the ends to hold them together. Initially the length may be lumpy and the joint will show. It takes practice. OR, roll dough into 30" lengths, cut each length into thirds (each 10" long) and join the ends. If you become proficient at this hand-made method, make 10" marks on the edge of your bread board so your bagels will be a consistent size. BAGEL CUTTER METHOD: Roll dough out to a flat shape about 1/2" thick. Cut with a bagel cutter and smooth the tops over the sides so they're rounded, using a little water on your fingers to smooth, if necessary. Knead scraps again, reroll and cut into as many more bagels as there is dough. If you don't have a bagel cutter, use a wide champagne glass to cut out the outside. Cut the inside hole with the edge of a cordial glass or the small end of a measuring jigger. Any leftover dough can be rolled into two strips and made into a bagel twist (separate recipe), sealing ends with a dab of water so they don't untwist while boiling and baking. Place shaped bagels on the greased baking sheet for the second rise, spacing them at least an inch apart to allow for the second rise. Proceed to Step 3: Second Rise. STEP 3: SECOND RISE During the second rising of the dough, the bagels will puff up on the greased baking sheet. cover them with a length of plastic wrap sprayed with nonstick vegetable spray or a very lightly dampened cloth such as a tea towel. Place them in a draft free location and let them rise at room temperature until puffy, about 20 minutes. NOTE: Bagels can be refrigerated at this point, should you decide to boil and bake them later, or the next morning. Leave them covered so they do not dry out. Remove from the refrigerator and allow to warm slightly while you boil water and preheat the oven. The second rise can be speeded up by using the microwave. Fill a 2-cup microwave-safe measuring cup with water and bring the water to a boil. Place in a corner of the microwave. Place the baking sheet of covered bagels in the microwave and close the door, but so not turn on the microwave. The bagels should rise in a bout 6 minutes. (It won't matter if the sheet is metal because you don't turn on the oven.) Or, spray shaped tops of dough with water. Place bagels on a microwave-safe surface and heat in the microwave on LOW or DEFROST setting for 3 minutes; rest for 3 minutes. Repeat heating and resting until bagels are puffy. Proceed to Step 4: Boil or "kettle". STEP 4: BOIL OR "KETTLE" Fill a 4- to 6- quart soup pot with water 3 to 4 inches deep. Water alone can be used, or add 2 tbs. malt syrup, honey or sugar. Preheat the oven to 400F., so it's ready when you're through boiling the bagels. Drop bagels one at a time into the boiling water. Boil about 4 at a time or only so many that they float freely and so not crowd; they will expand further in the hot water. The bagel may sink to the bottom for a few seconds, and then float to the surface. Simmer for 30 seconds to 1 minute on each side, turning with a slotted spatula. Remove and put on a lightly greased rack or a lightly floured tea towel for a few minutes to drain. HINT: Put the top side of the bagel down into water first, and then turn over. When you remove them, the bagels will be top side up and slide off your spatula for draining and adding toppings. When cool enough to handle, proceed to Step 5: Glaze and Apply Topping, or if you omit this step, proceed to Step 6: Bake. STEP 5, OPTIONAL: GLAZE AND APPLY TOPPING GLAZES: Brush tops with glaze either before placing them in the oven or about 5 minutes into the baking and then again about 5 minutes before the end of baking. I've tried all the glazes listed below on the same bagels in one batch, using white flour bagels and whole grain flour bagels. Despite claims in some cookbooks that different glazes yield different shades and crustiness, I found no appreciable difference in either color or texture of the crusts when applied to bagels. You may have a different result. Water Glaze: A spray or brushing with room-temperature tap water will yield a subtle glaze similar to using the steam baking method (described elsewhere in directions). Try brushing some bagels at the beginning of the baking, some 5 minutes after and some near the end, and compare the differences. Nonstick Vegetable Spray Glaze: an easy, quick, effective, low calorie glaze is a spray of nonstick vegetable spray. It goes on more evenly than using a brush, yet yields an even glaze. Spray before placing in the oven and again about 5 minutes before baking time is completed. Melted Butter or Margarine Glaze: This glaze produces the same effect as vegetable oil. Watch the bagels carefully so they don't burn. Egg Glaze #1: Mix together 1 egg white, 1 egg yolk or 1 whole egg with 1 tbs. water, milk, or cream. Egg Glaze #2: Lightly beat 1 egg white. You can brush it on the bagels either before they are put into the oven or 5 minutes after baking time has begun, and 5 minutes before the baking is finished. Cornstarch Glaze: Dissolve 2 tbs. cornstarch in 1/4 cup cold water. Bring 1 cup water to a boil and whisk the dissolved solution into the boiling water until it thickens. This cornstarch mixture can be kept in the refrigerator for several days. Brush it on the bagel tops at the beginning of the baking and again as soon as you remove the bagels from the oven for a very high shine. TOPPINGS: A variety of toppings can be added to the bagel before baking, either directly to the dough after settling, or after the bagel is glazed. Poppy seeds, sesame seeds, caraway seeds and coarse salt are easiest to use because they can be placed in a dish directly from the jar, and the bagel can be dipped into the dish; the seeds adhere to the moist dough. Or they can be sprinkled on top of the bagels just before baking, and pressed down lightly to adhere. I've seen bagels with sparse toppings and those that are covered from top to bottom. There's no right or wrong way. Add 1/2 cup finely chopped, saut=E9ed onions to the tops of the bagels. Add 1/2 cup finely chopped raw onions to the tops of the bagels; they will cook right along with the bagels. Use dehydrated onion flakes or packaged onion soup that you have reconstituted with water, olive oil, or vegetable oil. Use 1 tbs. dry product to 1/2 tbs. water or oil, and soak for 2 to 3 minutes. Mix together 1/2 cup chopped yellow onions, 1 green onion (white part only), 2 tsp. olive oil, 2 tsp. poppy seeds. Sprinkle with garlic salt, finely chopped fresh garlic or garlic flakes. For the "Everything Bagel" (see recipe), combine 1/2 cup finely chopped onions, 1 clove garlic, finely chopped, and 1/4 cup sesame seeds. Sprinkle mixture on bagel tops before baking. Use ground caraway or whole caraway seeds. These are particularly good on rye bagels. They can be combined with the topping for the "everything bagel". Sprinkle with red pepper flakes, adjusting the "heat" to your liking. Top with mixed fresh herbs, including parsley, chives and dill. Dip into or distribute about 1/4 cup coarse salt or kosher salt on top of 1 batch of bagels just before baking. Poppy, caraway, sesame and celery seeds can be used directly from the jar. Just dip the bagels into a dish of seeds or sprinkle seeds on top. Toasting nuts before using them on (and in) bagels enhances their flavor. Walnuts, almonds, pecans or hazelnuts can be used on bagels as toppings and also added to the dough at the beginning or before they are shaped and rise the second time. Sprinkle with rolled oats or multigrain cereal, which will brown while baking. Proceed to Step 6: Baking STEP 6: BAKE Place bagels on a shelf just below the middle in a preheated 400F. oven and bake for 20 to 25 minutes or until the tops are a nice golden brown. BAKING SURFACES: Bake the bagels on a baking sheet. The easiest surface available to most home cooks is an aluminum cookie sheet or flat Teflon-coated sheet pan. Coat with a little oil and sprinkle very lightly with yellow cornmeal to prevent bagels from sticking. Or line the pan with parchment paper; it eliminates the use of oil and cornmeal and cleaning pans. Bake the bagels on wooden boards (described earlier in directions). Place bagels on the boards bottom side up to form a crusty bottom, and flip them off the board after 2 or 3 minutes onto a stone or sheet to continue baking. Bake the bagels directly on a baking stone or tiles. Place the stone or tiles on the lowest rack. Or line a baking sheet with the tiles and place that on the lowest rack. Preheat the oven, with stone or tiles inside, to 400F. for 1 hour before baking. Sprinkle cornmeal on the stone or tiles. Transfer unbaked bagels to the hot surface with a wooden peel (a long-handled wooden paddle used in baking), or any flat instrument with a long handle so you don't burn yourself; wear heavy padded gloves. Do not wash or immerse stone or tiles in cold water while they are hot; they may crack. Soak the cooled stone or tiles in cold water and scrape with a spatula. Do not use soap, as the surfaces tend to absorb soap, which will be imparted to the bagels. Stones and tiles will discolor, but that won't affect their baking ability. Don't place a hot stone directly on your kitchen counter; depending on the material, the heat could leave a mark. Steam baking gives bagel tops a crisp crust and extra shine. Create steam during the first few seconds of the baking by spraying the sides of the preheated oven with water from a spray bottle when you place the bagels inside. Place a heavy pan in the lower part of the oven bottom while it is heating. Place the bagels in the oven and then pour cold water or half a dozen ice cubes into the pan. STORING AND USING BAGELS: Bagels are best when they're eaten fresh from the oven while still warm. Because they don't usually contain egg or milk, they tend to dry out faster than breads that contain these ingredients. If you can't consume all the bagels in a reasonably short time, freezing them is recommended. It's smart to slice them horizontally before freezing so you can toast only half at a time, if you wish. Thaw bagels on the kitchen counter in a plastic bag for about 15 minutes or toast directly from the freezer. Or zap them in the microwave oven for about 1 minute on DEFROST and then toast them until lightly browned on top. Microwaving too long will make them tough. What if a few bagels get stale? Put them into your blender or food processor and grind them into bread crumbs. None of the tasty bread need ever go to waste! The Best Bagels are made at home by Dona Z. Meilach ISBN 1-55867-131-5 Carolyn Shaw April 1996 From: Homenet Cook I hope this answers most of your questions. Arnold Elser Sweet Technology - Los Angeles http://www.sweettechnology.com pastrywiz@msn.com Looking for a cookbook? Try http://www.pastrywiz.com/store/ --------------- END bread-bakers.v097.n025 --------------- -------------- BEGIN bread-bakers.v097.n026 -------------- 001 - Loiscon1@aol.com - King Arthur Flour 002 - Loiscon1@aol.com - re: questions on whole wheat 003 - Enkidu Subject: hi-gluten flour vs. gluten? Date: Sun, 23 Mar 1997 06:00:14 -0600 (CST) Vital gluten (also called gluten flour) is more-or-less pure protein, extracted from wheat and concentrated into a powder. High-gluten flour is simply flour with a lot of gluten in it, either because it comes from a hard wheat or because it has already been boosted with vital gluten. High-gluten flour could be anything from regular all-purpose flour (which is high-gluten compared to the flours ordinarily used in French baking, for example) to first-clear (a specialty flour with such ultra-high protein content that even breads usually don't call for it). If it has nutritional information on the package, you can estimate the protein content by dividing the total weight per serving by the weight of protein. 13-15% should be about right for breadmaking (if you care, all-purpose flour is about 12%, and pastry and cake flours float around 7-9). Another way of estimating is the drop-test: If you drop the (full) sack on the floor and it bounces back into your hands, you probably have a fairly strong flour. Omar ---------- "I would be a little careful with this, though, as I suspect it might be easy to burn the z'atar." debbie, Concord, ma --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v097.n026.4 --------------- From: Daniel and Mary Commini <4christ@bellsouth.net> Subject: Requesting a basic bread recipe Date: Sat, 22 Mar 1997 17:29:05 -0500 Hello, all! I just signed on to this list today, because I just haven't been finding many bread recipes on the recipe lists I already belonged to. I was hoping some of you could help me out. I'm looking for a recipe to make a basic loaf of bread, in an oven, not a bread maker -- I don't own one and can't afford one! I am also looking for anything in the way of Irish Soda Bread recipes, and Irish scones (a type of biscuit). If anyone help, I'd appreciate it! God bless, Mary --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v097.n026.5 --------------- From: "Joan Mathew" Subject: hi-gluten flour vs. gluten? Date: Sun, 23 Mar 1997 04:30:31 -0500 > From: rich > Subject: hi-gluten flour vs. gluten? > Date: Fri, 21 Mar 1997 09:30:23 -0500 > > Hi: I went to the store the other day to buy vital gluten. I accidently > brought home something called "hi gluten flour." The label has no > instructions for use or other comments on it. > > Is this the same thing as vital gluten? If not, what is it for and how is > it used? Debbie, Hi-Gluten flour is not quite the same as vital gluten; however, when you're using this hi-gluten flour you wouldn't really have to add any of the vital gluten to your recipes in all probability. Vital gluten is typically used in recipes that have a lower amount of gluten due to the type of flour being used or, in my experience, due to the denseness of the dough. For example, whole wheat breads tend to be quite dense when you make the dough, and I have found that adding the vital gluten to my recipes helps the dough in rising. I end up with a lovely, light product because it was able to rise more easily. In my own baking I tend to add vital gluten only when there is a high percentage of flour that contains lower amounts of gluten, such as whole wheat flour. If I am making a white bread using bread flour, I often do not add gluten at all because *bread flour* has a higher content of gluten anyway. Although vital gluten is not absolutely necessary in bread-making, I have found it helps to yield wonderful bread products. The hi-gluten flour that you purchased would, by its name, indicate that you've purchased a flour that already has a high content of the vital gluten. Using the vital gluten in a recipe with this flour would be acceptable, but redundant in my opinion. Hope that helps, Joan cmathew@airmail.net http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/8098/ Deja News: http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Post to Usenet --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v097.n026.6 --------------- From: Enkidu Subject: Re: Unleavened Bread Date: Sat, 22 Mar 1997 20:38:47 -0600 (CST) If you want "official" unleavened bread like real-life Jews use in real-life seders, the bottom line is that you _can't_ make it. Sanctioned matzah nowadays has to be created under strict rabbinical supervision to ensure that the ingredients, from mixing to baking, remain unadulterated, and most importantly are never exposed to the air long enough to give wild yeast a chance to take hold. If you're thinking of "period" bread, your best bet is probably to do precisely what unleavened bakers of the time did, which is simply to make some cakes of water/flour dough until it feels about right (probably in the same concentration as you use for bread), add some salt, press thin, and bake until crisp. The lack of a definite recipe is part of the traditional nature, and would certainly help to evoke the feel of bread baked while fleeing from a pursuing army. Omar ---------- "I would be a little careful with this, though, as I suspect it might be easy to burn the z'atar." debbie, Concord, ma --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v097.n026.7 --------------- From: sue@interport.net (Curly Sue) Subject: Re: bread sticking Date: Sat, 22 Mar 1997 14:31:38 -0500 (EST) Lilia, This is not typical. If you are having so much trouble, call the manufacturer of your machine and tell them. Hopefully they will volunteer to send you a new pan, assuming the machine is still under warantee; if not, then ask/insist. >Hi, this is my first post to this list, so I hope I'm doing this right. I >have a question regarding my breadmaker. The first loaf or two came out >really nice, but the rest have trouble coming out. It seems to stick a >little, and although I usually get it out all in one piece, it is such a >hassle to get it out I keep thinking that there must be an easier way. Sue(tm) Lead me not into temptation... I can find it myself! --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v097.n026.8 --------------- From: Marcy Lawrence Subject: Re: Unleavened bread Date: Sun, 23 Mar 1997 15:34:31 -0500 Terri wrote: >My church is doing an Easter pageant and would like to use an *authentic* >recipe for the unleavened bread that would be used at Passover. Being a >Baptist, I have no idea what it would be. The lady who has made it in the >past for us has moved away, without giving her recipe to anyone. If anyone >has a recipe for a bread machine I would greatly appreciate it, although I >will be happy with anything I can get. The unleavened bread eaten during Passover is called "Matzoh". No need to use a bread machine because the bread is not allowed rise! No yeast allowed! During Passover, Jews are not allowed to eat any leavened products. This custom represents the Jews' flight from Egypt when there wasn't enough time allowed for the bread to rise. Matzoh is basically flour and water, mixed together, rolled out, pierced with holes (the prongs of a fork might work well) and then baked. Similar in texture to a cracker. I hope this helps! Marcy --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v097.n026.9 --------------- From: caspur@juno.com Subject: Re:Recipes Date: Sun, 23 Mar 1997 19:24:58 EST I don't have a bread machine and really do not intend to get one. Some of the recipes posted on this list for bread machines I really want to try. I use my kitchen Aid to mix and do part of the kneading. Is it possible just to follow the instructions for bread machine recipes or must I somehow modify them? Caspur@Juno.Com --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v097.n026.10 --------------- From: Fred Smith Subject: whole wheat & bread flour Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 19:11:54 -0500 (EST) > From: Lulumommy@aol.com > Subject: WW bread & Bread Flour > Date: Wed, 19 Mar 1997 23:05:27 -0500 (EST) > > Hi everybody, > ... > My goal is to make whole grain breads for my family with no eggs, milk, or > processed sugar, and I've tried a few whole wheat recipes that came with the > machine. However, every loaf I've made so far has turned out with a bitter > flavor. Is whole wheat destined to make a bitter bread? Could this package of > whole wheat flour simply be more bitter than it should be? Does the quality > of the flour really affect it that much? This is just an ordinary package of > whole wheat flour from the grocery store. What kind of flour do you all > recommend if you think this is my problem? Whole wheat flour DOES have a stronger flavor than does white flour, is it possible that's just what you detect? I use King Arthur's stone-ground whole wheat flour, available (around here at least) in grocery stores in 5-lb bags. It's great stuff! I've used it many times for 100% whole wheat bread, which rises up very nicely (if you knead it thoroughly!) and tastes great. I'd suggest you see if you can find some and see if it makes a difference. Also, whole wheat flours contain more oil than white flours, and this oil can go rancid with age, thereby damaging the flavor of the flour in a much more noticeable way than white flour. So, if the bag of flour is old (been sitting in a store for a year before you bought it) that might be the cause. > As you can see, I have narrowed this down to the flour > (I think)! Is it possible that something in the machine itself is causing an off flavor? (I always bake by hand, forgive the slight on your machine ;-) > Okay, now for my second question -- the manual explains that "bread flour" is > the type called for in the recipes, plus I see all of your recipes that call > for this "bread flour." However, I cannot find anything called bread flour at > the grocery store. Do you have to buy it somewhere else? Or is there another > name for it and it is right there under my nose? A good UNBLEACHED all-purpose flour will probably work just about as well, but avoid like the plague the cheap (and sometimes not so cheap) bleached (also called bromated) allpurpose flours. A good flour can really make a striking difference in the resulting bread. For bread flour, I believe that King Arthur's unbleached white is labeled as a bread flour, and it, like their whole wheat, is great stuff. Doesn't cost a TREMENDOUS amount more than cheaper flours, but the result is worth it. I do sometimes use the King Arthur (it's what is in the house right now) but usually purchase flour in 50-lb bags at a local bakery supply wholesaler. Not all such dealers will sell a bag or two at a time to an individual, but this one will. I get a product named "Rex Royal", a product of General Mills. It is labeled as an all-purpose flour, and it is unbleached. I find no difference in the taste of the resulting breads compared to King Arthur, but based on the amount of kneading required the King ARthur is probably higher in gluten. But the Rex Royal is still vastly better than the cheap grocery-store flours and is also relatively inexpensive in 50-lb bags. Happy baking! Fred PS: this is not a King Arthur commercial--I'm just a satisfied user of their products! -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- .---- Fred Smith / Office: fred@computrition.com ( /__ ,__. __ __ / __ : / 508-663-2524 / / / /__) / / /__) .+' Home: fredex@fcshome.stoneham.ma.us / / (__ (___ (__(_ (___ / :__ 617-438-5471 -------------------------------- Jude 1:24,25 --------------------------------- --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v097.n026.11 --------------- From: "Joan Mathew" Subject: WW bread & Bread Flour Date: Sat, 22 Mar 1997 16:53:11 -0500 > From: Lulumommy@aol.com > Subject: WW bread & Bread Flour > Okay, now for my second question -- the manual explains that "bread flour" is > the type called for in the recipes, plus I see all of your recipes that call > for this "bread flour." However, I cannot find anything called bread flour at > the grocery store. Do you have to buy it somewhere else? Or is there another > name for it and it is right there under my nose? Hi Laura, Most of the large grocery store chains here in the U.S. do carry some form of bread flour usually. Sometimes the brand names vary depending upon your locale; however, I can name one major brand that is carried everywhere I've seen: Gold Medal "Better for Bread". I have used this for several years and am very pleased with it; however, there are other brands that I'm sure are quite good as well. Sometimes you have to look really carefully when you're browsing through the "flour aisle" because the labels are sometimes not clear enough, and it's certainly easy to miss one type among that huge display of flours! Hope this helps a bit, Joan cmathew@airmail.net http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/8098/ Deja News: http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Post to Usenet --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v097.n026.12 --------------- From: "Karen D. Gouvin" Subject: peanut butter braid still wanted Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 19:28:14 -0500 (EST) Hi everyone-- I am still looking for the Fleishmann's recipe for a peanut butter braid. It is a sweet loaf. Several of you sent me recipes for twists and the one I tried was excellent. But what I am looking for makes either one or two loaves rather than individual twists. The recipe does not have any jam or jelly in it. Hope someone out there has the recipe.. Thanks. Karen ao774@osfn.org ##@# --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v097.n026.13 --------------- From: Mark and Jenny Wesner Subject: Bread sticking to the ABM pan Date: Sun, 26 Mar 1995 18:04:43 -0500 At 11:24 PM 3/21/97 -0800, Lilia wrote: really nice, but the rest have trouble coming out. It seems to stick a >little, and although I usually get it out all in one piece, it is such a >hassle to get it out I keep thinking that there must be an easier way. The >bread itself tastes great, it's just the sticking that is the trouble. Am >I maybe trying to take it out too quickly? >Lilia Prescod Hi Lilia, I've had the same trouble, and have found that if I wait for 15 min. to 1/2 hr. after the bread is done to remove it from the pan, I have absolutely no sticking. You can speed up the process a bit by removing the pan from the machine, which cools it faster. But do give it at least 15 minutes. That should solve your problem. Happy baking! Jenny --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v097.n026.14 --------------- From: Mark Sklaney Subject: bread machine input? Date: Sat, 29 Mar 1997 09:08:48 -0800 I am looking to buy a bread machine, and would like anyone on the list to send me input (via e-mail) on which machines they have purchased and are using, and if you -like- or -hate- it? Would appreciate the brand and model name if you could... I am sure some of them are better than others... Many thanks.... ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- |---> Mark in Alden, PA < ms@epix.net > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v097.n026.15 --------------- From: Jay Hosler Subject: Comments on Silverton; book recommendations Date: Sun, 23 Mar 1997 12:18:20 -0800 (PST) > music_class@earthlink.net (Katja) wrote: > > John Levin (great name for a baker, no? ;)) said: << While a good source > of recipes and technique, the Silverton book is oriented more towards > commercial sourdough baking, and her advice on starting new sourdough > starter is a bit eccentric. There are several good books on the subject, > check the King Arthur Flour catalog.>> > > Having invested in Nancy Silverton's book and regularly tasted her bread > from La Brea Bakery which is *outrageously* good, IMO (but not having baked > from the book yet), which specific books would you recommend for home > baking, John? I haven't looked lately, but hers is probably among those in > the catalog .. so more specific info would be really welcome to distinguish > the eccentric from the valuable, in your opinion, anyway. I have a chance > to buy a number of bread books I'd like at discount at the moment and .. > well, let's just say I have a propensity for over-collecting (no abm books, > though .. no machine). I have the Silverton book and must agree with John Levin that its starter instructions are less valuable than the recipes and techniques. However, I think the book works very well for the home baker. Nearly every bread recipe I've made from it has been a winner, but not one has worked out at the exact times/temperatures volumes that she gives. Despite her somewhat patronizing instructions (such as for Pumpernickel bread), you have to be prepared to adjust to get reasonable results. I think most of the problem lies in the great variability in the moisture content of starter, but she also specifies temperatures from place to place ("mix until the internal temp of the dough reaches 72") that never work out for me. The recipes I've made from her book that have worked out best are Pumpernickel, raisin currant (but I use sourdough instead of yeast in that), Potato dill. The normandy rye recipe didn't work out at all -- bland light-colored bread with no trace of apple flavor -- but the basic recipe and technique turns out to work extremely well for other rye-white recipes. Her techniques produce better-shaped more attractive bread. I bought some baskets - ordinary wicker round and oval baskets from an import store - and let the bread rise in them, on a floured towel. Refrigerating the dough produces better texture and better shape. It's a great book. Of the many (too many) books I have, the one with the biggest proportion of winners is "Rustic European Breads from your Bread Machine" by Linda Eckhardt. You don't need a bread machine to use the great recipes. I recommend it highly. Jay --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v097.n026.16 --------------- From: jmartin@london2.skn.net (Jerri Dawn Martin) Subject: port & blue cheese bread recipe Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 08:11:51 -0500 Penchard asked for the original recipe...here it is...but I still haven't tried it! Jerri >From: Katie E Green Date: Fri, 02 Feb 1996 18:01:42 . >Subject: Recipe: Port & Blue Cheese Bread--BREAD MACHINE PORT & BLUE CHEESE BREAD 1 lb. loaf 1.5 lb. loaf 2/3 cup water 1 cup 2 cups white Bread Flour 3 cups 1 TBS sugar 2 TBS 1 tsp salt 1.5 tsp 2 tsp Butter 1 TBS 2 TBS Port Ruby Red Wine 1/4 cup 1/4 cup Blue Cheese, crumbled 1/3 cup 1/4 cup walnuts, coarse chopped 1/3 cup 2 1/2 TBS applesauce 1/4 cup 3/4 tsp yeast--RAPID rise 1 tsp --OR-- 1 1/2 tsp yeast--active dry 2 tsp Load machine according to manufacturer's recommendations. --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v097.n026.17 --------------- From: "Bobbi Terkowitz" Subject: Books for Katja Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 11:15:10 -0500 I, like you, am likely to go overboard on breadbaking books--I have a few dozen now. My all-time favorites are Bernard Clayton's Breads of France, and Carol Field's The Italian Baker. (Her book on Focaccia is also terrific, though clearly very specialized.) The Village Baker by Joe Ortiz has fabulous sourdough recipes. I also use James Beard's Beard on Bread for special recipes (such as cranberry-orange quick bread, or Parker House rolls). By the way, my criteria for "great bread book" is not pictures or layout, but reliably great bread. Hope this helps! Regards, Bobbi --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v097.n026.18 --------------- From: "Joan Mathew" Subject: for Darlene: answers to "A couple of questions" Date: Sat, 22 Mar 1997 17:07:32 -0500 > 1. What is the "King Arthur Flour Catalogue"? Is there "King Arthur > Flour"? I have never seen it where we live or have lived > (northern/southern Idaho and British Columbia). Where can I get one of > those catalogues? The King Arthur company has a Web site where you can request a catalog, at: http://home.kingarthurflour.com/ If you don't have Web access, you can contact them at: King Arthur Flour P.O. Box 1010, Route 5 South Norwich, Vermont 05055 Voice: 802-649-3881 - Fax: 802-649-3323 E-Mail: info@KingArthurFlour.com > 2. What does this mean * Exported from MasterCook * ? What is > MasterCook? A computer program for chefs/bakers? I don't own it myself, but MasterCook is a software package that stores recipes, has the ability to categorize them, allows printing, etc. There are lots of various features, but I think what you wanted to know is that it's a program that runs on your PC! It is widely available, and I've seen a few Web sites about it. I'm sure some of the MasterCook owners here on the list can give you more info, but I hope that helps to clarify *what* it is. > 3. I use a Bosch mixer and bake my bread in the oven, can these bread > machine recipes be used for the Bosch instead of the bread machine? I had > a Bread Man Plus machine for a couple of months in the latter part of '96, > but returned it because the product was soooo inferior to my oven-baked > bread. Any bread machine recipe can be easily converted to a standard mixer. The sequence of mixing and kneading bread is fairly uniform throughout most standard bread recipes, so once you understand the basic procedure all you really need is the ingredient list and sometimes the oven temperature and baking time (even these last two are fairly uniform for most recipes). Hope that helps a bit, Joan cmathew@airmail.net http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/8098/ Deja News: http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Post to Usenet --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v097.n026.19 --------------- From: music_class@earthlink.net (Katja) Subject: REQ: hi-gluten flour/bread flour definition Date: Sun, 23 Mar 1997 05:15:29 -0800 Debbie, I use bread flour for my bread partly because it's easy for me to find and I can buy it in 10 lb. bags for $3.+ at a nearby restaurant supply place (Smart & Final, for those who drive by them all the time). I still supplement it with vital wheat gluten at 1 T. per cup of flour (because it's here), but that's not necessary. I use it just like all-purpose flour in bread baking .. no special recipes required. I THINK hi-gluten flour is the same as what I'm using but ... It so happens that I've been looking for an exact definition of hi-gluten (vs. bread flour) lately, after reading bagel recipes based on info from Izzy Cohen, a local, now-retired bagel hero. Nancy Silverton's bread book says that he comes into her La Brea Bakery many Saturdays to make bagels and that one week when he came in, he said, "no hi-gluten flour here today" and turned around and left. Others have cited that as critical for bagels as well. MY question is: is "hi-gluten flour" the same as what I find labeled "bread flour," which is at least a higher gluten flour than all-purpose. I looked at the King Arthur site (http://www.kingarthurflour.com/) and, from what I can tell, that's the case. Anyone know anything different? TIA, Katja ahhh .. as I wrote this, Mura sent a note that hi-gluten flour IS bread flour ... thanks! :) --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v097.n026.20 --------------- From: Irwin@prodigy.com (MR IRWIN H FRANZEL) Subject: Bread sticking Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 12:06:52, -0500 Lilia Prescod writes about the subject problem. There are several reasons why breads stick and Lilia is on the ball with respect to taking the bread out of the pan too soon. If the bread machine has a cool down cycle, the bread should be allowed to cool for at least 15 minutes in the machine. That will remove some of the moisture from the loaf and cause it to shrink a little. When that happens, it will be easier to remove the loaf from the pan. If she has a Zoji, using a Finnish Pan would allow the loaves to come sliding out of the pan without sticking at all. Another suggestion that might help with a sweet loaf, such as Hawaiian breads, is to lightly spray a release agent such as PAM on the interior of the bread pan and the kneading hardware. Irwin/Delta Rehab/Using Zojis --------------- END bread-bakers.v097.n026 --------------- -------------- BEGIN bread-bakers.v097.n027 -------------- 001 - "Joan Mathew" Subject: Re:Bagels--boiling and baking time/temp help Date: Sun, 23 Mar 1997 04:52:26 -0500 > From: TShea66106@aol.com > Subject: Re:Bagels--boiling and baking time/temp help > Date: Wed, 19 Mar 1997 14:33:32 -0500 (EST) > > I've finally been able to produce bagels that are like the ones at the bagel > bakery: chewy on the outside, soft on the inside. After much trial and > error, here's some hints I've found for making a better bagel: > 1. Most directions suggest rolling out a rope of dough then forming the > bagels by pinching together the ends. I've found they hold their shape much > better by rolling the dough out and cutting with a doughnut cutter. You can > re-roll the "holes" or boil and bake the holes along with the bagels (my > 2-yr-old thinks the holes are great). It seems like you could also use the holes "as is" to make some kind of monkey bread. You could do all kinds of things with the dough, from making a savory type of monkey bread to a sweet type, or use the "holes" to make pan rolls of some sort -- hey, they're already formed! I've even seen some breads that were fried -- don't have the recipes handy at the moment -- and maybe these "holes" could be used to make that type of bread, similar to how we make fried donut holes. Ah, the possibilities....! :) >2. This is probably the BEST HINT I've picked up: After you've >shaped the bagels, place on a waxed paper-lined cookie sheet and >freeze. When frozen, store in zip-lock bags until ready to boil and >bake. Even though they'll look small and puny, they will puff up and >rise when you bake them - I promise! I have not tried this trick, although I've made bagels on many occasions. When you take the bagels out of the freezer, do you let them come to room temperature for some period before submerging them in the boiling, malted water? I know they will puff up, but it seems that if they are not yet room temperature the amount of "puffing" will be reduced somewhat. Just wondering... Joan cmathew@airmail.net http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/8098/ Deja News: http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Post to Usenet --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v097.n027.2 --------------- From: "Joan Mathew" Subject: dough enhancer & conditioner ingredients? Date: Sun, 23 Mar 1997 04:52:26 -0500 > From: music_class@earthlink.net (Katja) > Subject: dough enhancer & conditioner ingredients? > > Title: DOUGH ENHANCER > 1 c Lecithin granules > 1 tb Vitamin C powder > 1 tb Ginger, ground > > Apparently, the ginger gooses the yeast and makes it act more > swiftly, the ascorbic acid strengthens the gluten, and the lecithin > aids the oil in causing the strands of gluten to slip against each > other more easily and thus rise better. > > THE BREADMACHINE COOKBOOK IV by Donna Rathmell German has a section > titled "Dough Enhancers" and in that section it mentions Lecithin. > "Lecithin is a food supplement which is obtained from oil in egg > yolks or soy beans. It improves moisture and assists in expansion > and elasticity of the bread dough. Add between 1 and 1 1/2 tsp. of > lecithin granules per cup of flour." I have seen lots of catalogs mention these dough enhancers, as well. Indeed, I have been using ginger in my bread products for some time now, and I recently was involved in a bread-making discussion that made me realize we could also add citrus juice (e.g., lemon, orange) to our bread recipes to supply the ascorbic acid. I was told that 1-2 Tbsp. of citrus juice is sufficient for a recipe yielding 1 loaf of bread. I don't think it really matters on the exact amount, but you might want to substitute this citrus juice for some of the other liquid in the recipe. For example, if you're using 1-1/2 cups of water in the recipe currently, you might wish to take out 2 Tbsp. of water from that amount and then put in the lemon juice. The comment about lecithin being obtained from eggs makes me think that perhaps we could accomplish the same effect as lecithin granules by simply adding 1 egg to our recipes, again calculating for the liquid ratios properly. Can anyone verify that my logic is correct on this? I guess one would also have to consider whether dietary/health restrictions allow the use of eggs or citrus juice in a recipe, too. Folks who have allergies, for example, may not be able to use certain citrus juices. Incidentally, I believe that lecithin (and the use of eggs) also helps to improve the longevity of a bread product when it is not frozen. That is, if you leave your bread out on the counter, use of lecithin, eggs, and/or a small amount of shortening helps to preserve it a bit longer. > PS I'm having a blast with Joan Matthew's website: > http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/8098/. I was going to check mail > quickly and now, 2 hours later .. still here cuz there's so much to look at > :). Good job, Joan! Imagine my surprise to see a "testimonial" about my site here on the bread list! Thank you so much for your kind words! I am very pleased that you are enjoying my site and finding it interesting and useful. Keep on "passing the word" as long as you find it enjoyable! Joan cmathew@airmail.net http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/8098/ Deja News: http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Post to Usenet --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v097.n027.3 --------------- From: "Joan Mathew" Subject: Re: Converting ounces to cups Date: Sat, 29 Mar 1997 16:16:39 -0500 > Hello, > > I'm wondering if anyone has an easy trick for converting ounces to cups. > Or do you all just have a weigh scale in your kitchens? What I'm doing is > making some meatballs as an appetizer for Easter tomorrow and my recipe > calls for 10 oz apricot preserves. It's a similar recipe to the grape > jelly/chili sauce recipe, but since I'm not a big grape jelly fan I'm > skeptical to try it, although from all the good stuff I've heard about it, > I keep thinking I should. But then I found a recipe calling for apricot > preserves and BBQ sauce which sounds more appealing to me. Anyway, if > anyone has any helpful tips, I'd be grateful. It's not just the > preservatives, I've some other recipes that call for X ounces and I never > know how to measure that. Lilia, If you have Web access, there is a pretty good cook's calculator that will convert several types of measurements, including weight, temperature, and volume. The URL is: http://internet.epicurean.com/latest/exchange/calculator.html There are some other Web sites that contain conversion information that may be useful for all of you cooks/bakers out there, as good references for all kinds of measurements (including metric): see the link about the British/American conversion tables: http://eng.hss.cmu.edu/recipes/ http://www.cei.net/~terry/auntedna/utilities.html http://www.envirolink.org/orgs/vegweb/measurements/ http://www.mit.edu:8001/people/wchuang/cooking/recipes/Conversion.txt http://foodnet.fic.ca/recipes/metric.html For your particular recipe which calls for 10 oz. of apricot preserves, I believe we are really talking "apples" and "apples" here. That is, we are talking about fluid ounces when dealing with measurements of preserves, so 10 oz. should equal 1-1/4 cups. Hope that helps, Joan cmathew@airmail.net http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/8098/ Deja News: http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Post to Usenet --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v097.n027.4 --------------- From: Elizabeth_C_Summo@gillette.com Subject: Recipe Request: Pannettone Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 16:18 -0500 (EST) Good Afternoon Everyone, This is my first message to list and I am a fairly new owner of a bread machine (Toastmaster). So far I've used it 3 times - I've only made the basic white and wheat breads. Tasted pretty basic - so know I am starting to get the courage to try something new. My mom is a big fan of pannettone which is usually only available during the Christmas Holidays. I am going to NY this coming weekend to visit her for Easter, plus to start shopping for a wedding dress! Anyway, I thought I would surprise her with a "homemade" pannettone. So I am asking if anyone out there has a really good recipe for me to try? Thanks in advance for your help. And I hope soon I can share some tried and true recipes with you too. Have a great day! - Liz --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v097.n027.5 --------------- From: "Arnold Elser" Subject: hi-gluten flour vs. gluten? Date: Thu, 27 Mar 97 21:20:15 UT Hi-gluten flour is almost the same as bread flour. The only difference is that high-gluten flour has between 5 - 10% more gluten. Just use is as you would use bread flour Flour listed by gluten content: Semolina <------ highest in gluten High-gluten flour Bread flour All-purpose flour Pastry flour Cake flour <-----lowest in gluten Arnold Elser Sweet Technology - Los Angeles http://www.sweettechnology.com pastrywiz@msn.com Looking for a cookbook? Try http://www.pastrywiz.com/store/ --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v097.n027.6 --------------- From: CHEFLZ@aol.com Subject: RE:Lila's "sticking" bread pan Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 12:06:15 -0500 (EST) I just spray the pan with a spray type oil(PAM) before adding the ingredients. --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v097.n027.7 --------------- From: Irwin@prodigy.com (MR IRWIN H FRANZEL) Subject: Whole wheat tasting bitter Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 12:07:00, -0500 To Laura, who writes about her whole wheat breads tasting rancid or bitter. The flavor problem you are experiencing is one that we have spent a great deal of time researching, before we solved the problem. This is what we found: Wheat germ oil is very delicate and becomes rancid within hours if exposed to the air. In the intact wheat berry, the oil lasts a long time without any rancidity. The answer to Laura's question is to grind the wheat yourself. It is easily done and well worth the cost and effort. Commercial millers, who package whole wheat flour, add a preservative to the flour to keep the oil from becoming rancid. Unfortunately, the preservative itself is bitter and detracts from the flavor of the finished bread. Laura, if you get a grain mill and buy wheat berries at your local bulk food or grain store, you will be amazed at the clean, nutty flavor you will get with even 100% whole wheat bread. Even children like it! If you have any questions, don't hesitate to call or E-mail. I can usually be reached at (800) 641-9093. Irwin/Delta Rehab/Using Zojis [Edited by listowner] --------------- END bread-bakers.v097.n027 --------------- Copyright (c) 1996-2000 Regina Dwork and Jeffrey Dwork All Rights Reserved