Date: Sun, 4 Aug 1996 11:09:17 -0700 -------------- BEGIN bread-bakers.v096.n028 -------------- 001 - "flash gordon, md" Subject: Re: Digest bread-bakers.v096.n027 Date: Sun, 28 Jul 1996 16:58:21 -0700 >From: MilesManor >Subject: RE: To Proof or Not To Proof > >I wonder about this too. Ever since I started to use my bread machine I >haven't proofed the Red Star yeast. I must say that over the last 5 years >the number of failed loaves I can attribute to a yeast problem I could count >on one hand. Yet when I get that failed loaf at the wrong time (morning >time-no bread for breakfast, no bread for lunches) I kick myself for not >proofing. . . here's an idea: if you haven't used your yeast for a while and aren't absolutely sure it's still good, and you want to use *dry* yeast since it's going in a bread machine, why not stir it up, take a little bit out and put it in a shot glass with a pinch of warm water and sugar? if it foams, it means the rest of the yeast should be good, too. note: i've never tried this, but it sounds like it might work. it would probably work with about one cent's worth of yeast: pretty cheap insurance imho. if you pay $3.50 per two pounds of yeast, that's a smidgen over a dime an ounce. a tenth of an ounce would be about a half teaspoon: so a penny's worth should be plenty. Excess on occasion is exhilarating. It prevents moderation from acquiring the deadening effect of a habit. -- W. Somerset Maugham *flash gordon, m.d., f.a.c.e.p. http://www.well.com/user/flash flash@well.com / flash@toad.com / flash@sirius.com / flash@river.org --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v096.n028.2 --------------- From: sue@interport.net (Curly Sue) Subject: Date: Sun, 28 Jul 1996 12:58:46 -0400 (EDT) >From: jbluedun@sover.net (Jeffrey Hamelman) >Subject: tools are made, born are hands >Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 19:33:29 -0400 >I am a new subscriber to this most interesting site. Also, I am a baker by >profession. This September 1 will be my 20th anniversary as a commercial >baker. For thirteen years I have owned my own bakery, in Vermont. Glad you're aboard Jeffrey! >Although I love the feel of a hand-kneaded loaf, I know indisputably that >for the initial mixing process, there is nothing that surpasses a machine. >Of course, in a commercial bakery, the initial mix is not even concievable >by hand. My bakery is relatively small, 400 loaves is a good day, and while >each loaf does get worked by hand, all the doughs begin in a mixer. As far >as making good breads at home goes, I guess bread machines seem a little >like condoms to me, that is, they remove us from the direct experience. Why >rely on some sealed and remote machine to do it all? First of all, I can understand why you would use a machine to mix the initial dough for 400 loaves. However, I don't understand why you would recommend it to the home baker but then criticize bread machines. People who use Kitchen Aids use them to knead the dough- where is the transcendence of that? I disagree with your assessment that they are so much more involved with it than I am because they use one machine than another; you have simply drawn an arbitry line that fits your needs. I think that you misunderstand how bread machines operate. Yes, they do all the physical work. But they are not "sealed" or remote. One can observe the process by lifting the lid, watching, and poking the dough. I find it very interesting to stand with my cup of tea and watch the different stages. I rarely walk by it in the kitchen while it's going without checking in on my bread. Believe it or not, I *enjoy* my bread machine! You also don't realize that having a machine to do the work does not release us from understanding the changes bread dough undergoes. Of course, at one extreme you can buy pre-packaged bread mixes for the machine, but this seems to be the minority of people who make bread. Most of us use flour, water, yeast, eggs, honey, oatmeal, and other ingredients. We can no more ignore seasonal changes in humidity or temperature, or the effects of different types of flours, sugars, yeasts, and other additives than you can. The fact that we don't physically knead the dough doesn't mean that we are so far removed that we don't know what's going on! Woe to those who don't. We learn the same way someone else does- experience, trial and error. As to whether one can make better bread manually, I don't doubt it. As to whether most people who make bread by hand do, I doubt it. I have read many statements to the effect that you have to let the dough rise for a long time to get this flavor or that, that you have to fuss with water and baking stones, and other such things that are not routinely done with a bread machine (although one can mix the dough and take it out for the rest). But those people who I know who make bread that way and also soundly criticize bread machines, don't do those things! I've read the recipes... "let the bread rise until double in volume, about an hour". I've read of ways to speed up the rising ("put in a warm place, such as the oven with the pilot light" and others). And you know something, for all their professed love of manual bread-making, they don't make it half as often as I do! Before I bought the bread machine, I didn't make bread. Period. It's not a choice between kneading and bread machine. I find a lot of creative involvement in making different types of bread. I experiment a lot without fear of wasting an afternoon on something that doesn't work. Sure I've had experiments that have gone wrong or never worked so the ingredients were wasted, but probably that would have happened if I made it "by hand." The bread machine makes being playful possible. >I would like to consider this the beginning of a dialogue. If you have an >opinion on this, why not post it? By the way, it was William Blake who said >it: "Tools are made, but born are hands." And I say "My kingdom for a dishwasher" ! Now, in return for presenting some reasons for using bread machines, my question is.... why do people who don't have bread machines care so much how others make bread? Seriously, this topic comes up over and over again, and I honestly don't understand it. Sue Girls just want to have fun! _______________________________ As you climb up the ladder of success, Don't let the boys look up your dress. *********************************************** --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v096.n028.3 --------------- From: sue@interport.net (Curly Sue) Subject: Potato flakes Date: Sun, 28 Jul 1996 10:33:48 -0400 (EDT) >From: Loiscon1@aol.com >Subject: bread digest response >Date: Thu, 25 Jul 1996 17:22:43 -0400 >LG Moyer asked about potato breads and rolls. You cannot substitute potato >flakes for flour in recipes. You probably can find potato flour at King >Arthur 1-800-827-6088 Have seen it at health food stores too. This might need some expansion. I have several recipes for potato bread that call for potato flakes/buds and they come out very well. The potato material is used in addition to regular flour along with extra liquid or are first reconstituted. Potato flour is made from whole, dried potatoes, so I don't understand why there would be a difference in making bread with it compared to flakes or how it could substitute for regular flour since it doesn't have the gluten-forming proteins. Sue Girls just want to have fun! _______________________________ As you climb up the ladder of success, Don't let the boys look up your dress. *********************************************** --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v096.n028.4 --------------- From: bzwax@tiac.net (rich) Subject: re: tools are made, born are hands Date: Sun, 28 Jul 1996 10:05:45 -0400 Jeffrey Handelman wrote so beautifully about making bread by hand. I, myself, don't and use a bread machine at all times. But I completely understand not just the romance of hand-made bread that some people talk about, but what Jeffrey is saying about needing to FEEL (and look at!) the dough to see if it is right is important. I find that step indispensible with the bread machine. Considering the mutability of New England weather and the way moisture content varies with ingredients naturally, I can't tell you the number of times I have saved what would have been a not-so-good loaf by simply CHECKING IT! I do not use the timed function because I would miss being able to check the dough. I always check just after it starts mixing (a number of times I have discovered I had forgotten the blade or had seated the pan incorrectly....3 hours later that would have been a nightmare!) and then toward the middle of the first kneading to check to see if it is too wet or dry and then adjust accordingly. If I am using a new recipe, I also check toward the end of the 2nd rising to make sure it isn't going to grow so large it will tough the top of the machine during baking. In that case by checking, I give myself the opportunity to gently puncture the top to slightly deflate it. I LIKE watching the bread go through its paces. Call me dull, but I find it entertaining. Best-Debbie Bier Concord, MA ----------------------------------- visit the Concord, MA homepage at http://www.concordma.com --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v096.n028.5 --------------- From: charles moffat Subject: Re: tools are made, born are hands & recipe Date: Sun, 28 Jul 1996 09:41:56 -0400 Ok Jeff, you opened up this dialogue so here is my opinion on ABM's. > As far as making good breads at home goes, I guess bread machines seem a >little like condoms to me, that is, they remove us from the direct experience. Why >rely on some sealed and remote machine to do it all? Clearly, to make the >best breads, at home or by the hundreds in a bakery, you must feel, feel, feel the dough during all its stages. > My suggestion? Instead of a bread machine that removes you from direct contact >(therefore understanding) with your bread, far better to buy a Kitchen Aid style >machine. You can mix beautiful doughs, and have a much more complete >involvement with the dough, and how it evolves from minute one to minute eight. I made bread for years & hated every minute of it. Maybe you get a thrill out of kneading & feeling the dough but I don't. The only thing that interests me is the end product - a good loaf of bread. ABM's make delicious bread & they taste as good as any homeade that I've ever tasted. I also don't have the desire to understand my bread. I know enough to provide me with yummy bread & that's all that concerns me. And yes, I also have a Kitchenaid but it still requires your time & attention, which leads me to my next point. Time is also a factor. During the school year, I spend a lot of time at my son's school. I can put on a loaf of bread when my husband leaves for work & have it finished by the time my son leaves for school. I know I have a loaf of bread for dinner & have time to do other things that are more important than kneading bread. Variety: I can make a different loaf every day if I want & lots of different varieties. This is something that I normally do not have time to do by hand. We each have our favorites & I can make sure those are always available in the freezer when needed. Heat: I personally don't have central air. The ABM doesn't heat up the house like my oven but I still have delicious bread even in the summer. My mother also made bread for over 37 years. My father is partially disabled now & that means my mother has to do a lot of things around the house that he used to do. She no longer has the time or energy to knead bread. So she also uses an ABM & loves it for the convenience. Don't knock ABM's especially since you stated that you never used one. For those of you who get a thrill from kneading, go for it. I, however, will never go back to kneading! And since I've rambled on, here is a great recipe from Bread Machine Magic that is absolutely wonderful. It smells great while baking & is perfect for breakfast or brunch. Enjoy! Lavon Johnny Appleseed Bread 1 1/2 pound 1 pound 1/2 cup apple juice 1/3 cup 1/2 cup unsweetened applesauce 1/3 cup 3 cups bread flour 2 cups 1 1/2 tsp salt 1 tsp salt 1 1/2 tbsp butter or margarine 1 tbsp 3 tbsp brown sugar 2 tbsp 1/2 cup cored, peeled & chopped 1/3 cup Granny Smith apple 1/4 cup raisins, optional 3 tbsp 1/2 tsp ground cinnamon 1/2 tsp pinch ground nutmeg pinch 1 1/2 tsp active dry yeast 1 1/2 tsp Place all ingredients in bread pan & select Light Crust setting. Be sure to check this one because I usually add more flour to get it the right texture. The spices & yeast are the same for either 1 1/2 pound or 1 pound (it's not a typo). I also use the raisins. Source: Bread Machine Magic by Linda Rehberg & Lois Conway --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v096.n028.6 --------------- From: "Bill Hatcher" Subject: Re: Humidity and Looking for Winter Wheat Recipe Date: Sun, 28 Jul 1996 22:18:46 -0400 > From: FORD_KAREN/TUC_06@bbrown.com > Subject: Humidity and Looking for Winter Wheat Recipe > Date: Mon, 22 Jul 96 09:58:00 -0700 > > Hi All, > > I am fairly new to machine bread baking having just purchased my first > machine (a Welbilt) on Memorial Day. I had been having great success > (7 perfect loaves from pumpernickel to sourdough) until last weekend. > I made a second loaf of a cranberry granola bread that I had > successfully made the previous weekend. This time, instead of a > beautiful well-risen loaf I got a hockey puck! The only difference > from the first time I baked the bread was that not only was it hot, > but the humidity had increased (this is traditionally the monsoon > season here in Arizona). I plan to buy a temperature/humidity gage for > the kitchen, but was wondering, is there a humidity level where I > should just forget about baking or what? Judging from some of the > responses, there seem to be mixed opinions as to whether humidity has > anything to do with proper rising---anyway, I took a break this weekend > from baking and will continue to read your suggestions. Also, the only > other thing I can think of was that I added the cranberries and the > nuts about 5 minutes before the signal, because the week before they > hadn't mixed into the dough very well and were mostly stuck on the > outside of the loaf. > > By the way, I too would LOVE to have a recipe for the Oroweat Master's > Best Winter Wheat Bread. It is by far the best testing commercial > bread I have ever eaten and if I could duplicate that by hand or > machine, I would be an extremely "happy camper"!! > > Karen > Hockey Pucks AreUs > Karen - While I realize there are diverse opinions, I personally have serious reservations as to humidity variations causing the catastrophic failure you describe. I am much more suspicious of something such as salt, and possibly cinammon or some other agent, coming in contact with the yeast and causing the problem. I had sporadic problems with "hockey pucks" until a few months ago when I read in one of the bread machine books to keep salt and yeast separate. Since then, I put all liquids, oils, butter/margarine, salt, cinammon, etc. in the bottom of my breadpan first, then the flour, and yeast on top of the flour. I don't worry about sugar, dry milk, etc. coming in contact with the yeast. The first couple of times I make a recipe I do it when I can check the dough frequently, adding additional flour or liquid as necessary to attain proper consistency. You want a dough ball that is tacky to the touch, but that does not leave dough on your fingers when you touch it. If you have to add to the original recipe, make sure you annotate the recipe so you can duplicate your results. After baking at least twice and calibrating the recipe, then (if it is not a fruit/nut type) I will trust the recipe to my preferred delayed bake cycle. I have not had a single no-rise failure in 6 months after starting to do it this way. This in outside temperatures below 0F with bone-dry humidity to 95+F with humidity a fish could breath. I use a Regal ABM. Good luck. Bill Hatcher bhatcher@gc.net Southampton County, Virginia, USA --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v096.n028.7 --------------- From: t4v8f4jv@coastalnet.com (warywoda) Subject: machine vs feel, feel, feel Date: Mon, 29 Jul 1996 16:25:02 -0400 It was wonderful to read something that didn't portray bread machines as the be all, end all. I love making bread by hand, and have developed a following for my bread. I do things with dough that can't be done when it's inside that "magic box". With the olympics going on, we can see that there is something to be said for hard work. Like the athletes achieving there medals, a golden loaf that is a result of my talents, hard work and prayer is much better than an over-yeasted, under-touched loaf. I love the recipes put out here, but I do always have to cut back on the yeast as I start from a sponge (and it never fails to work). I would love to here from other bread makers who make their own bread. --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v096.n028.8 --------------- From: Dennis & Sharon Foulk Subject: non-dairy/non-soy bread Date: Mon, 29 Jul 1996 17:02:32 -0400 (EDT) Thanks to everyone who answered my questions about fresh yeast and spaetzel! I really appreciate the help. Marvin Moskowitz was one of several people who wrote personally to suggest that I contact my local bakery to see if they would sell me some of their fresh yeast. Maybe I can return the favor, Marvin. I have used Rice Dream with great success in several recipes. The first is a variation of one of Donna Rathmell German's from her book,_The Bread Machine Cookbook_. The original recipe calls for water and I have substituted soy milk and rice dream and the results were great. The texture of the bread might have been a little finer, but not much. Also, I never use butter or margarine anymore. I use olive oil most of the time or canola. The results are equally good. I'll type her original recipe and put my substitutions in parentheses. KASHI water (rice dream)- 1 cup margarine (olive oil) - 1 1/3 Tbsp. brown sugar (sucanat) - 2 Tbsp. salt 1 1/3 tsp. (D.R. German says a rounded 1/4 tsp= 1/3tsp.) cooked Kashi (see below) 2/3 cup (cooked brown rice works great-my favorite) whole wheat flour 2/3 cup bread flour 2 2/3 cup yeast 2 1/2 tsp. *You can find Kashi in a natural foods store or in the cereal section of some grocery stores. I'm pretty sure that you'll be able to buy Kashi wherever you buy rice dream. It is a combination of 7 grain berries. Make sure you get the "breakfast pilaf" which requires cooking. Use 2parts water to 1 part kashi and cook, covered, for 30 min. The directions are on the box. Make it for the softer version because even cooking it that way, the wheat berries are very noticeable in the bread. The other recipe I have substituted both soy milk and rice dream in is the French Bread recipe that came with my bread machine. We use it like white bread. 2 to 2 1/2 tsp. yeast (depending on how old it is) 3 cups bread flour (have used 2 1/2 c bread flour and experimented with the last 1/2 cup being whole wheat, or blends of rye, soy, buckwheat, rice flours all with very good results) 1 1/2 tsp. salt 1 1/2 tsp. sugar (sucanat) 1 1/2 tsp. olive oil 1 1/3 cups water (rice dream and soy milk work great but the crust is not as crispy, but that's ok). I watch the dough during the first couple of minutes and sometimes I need to drizzle in a little more water, depending on the weather. This recipe also makes wonderful pizza dough-enough for 2 pizzas with thick crust With the success I have had substituting with the rice milk, I think you could easily use it in any dependable bread recipe. If you or anyone else needs the Kashi recipe for smaller bread machines let me know and I will e-mail it to you. Sorry, the French bread recipe only came one way. I hope this is some help to you. Sharon Foulk --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v096.n028.9 --------------- From: LIR119@delphi.com Subject: recipe: oat and onion bread Date: Mon, 29 Jul 1996 18:02:01 -0500 (EST) Here's a recipe a friend gave me. Its most delicious warm. Funny thing that when we both owned Dak machines I always had to increase the flour!! we compared notes and used different brands of flour and yeast. I wanted to note this as some people who email me re my recipes for advice wondering why the bread doesnt come out as desribed. I always remind people: use bread flour, makes sure yeast is fresh and no matter what the recipes says add more flour or water whatever the case so the dough ball is soft, pliable a touch tacky but NO DOUGH STICKS ON THE FINGERS. Please also follow manufactures instructions on how to add ingredients. Without further adieu for my breadmachine friends: JEFF'S OAT AND ONION BREAD 1 pkg active dry yeast 1 1/2 cups quick rolled oats 2 1/2 cups bread flour ** I use 3 cups+ 1 cup oat bran 1/2 cup nonfat dry milk 1/4 cup dehaydrated chopped onions 1 pkg Lipton onion soup mix 1 tsp salt 2 tbs honey 2 tbs oil 2 1/2 cups warm water Add ingredients as manufacture instructs and push start for regular bread mode. Best served warm but wonderful toasted when cold Note: Jeff also has put in chunks of meat or cheese, or even cinnamon and raisins for variations. ** I find his dough much to wet! I use 3 cups+ of bread flour.Ive tried reducing the water with the 2 1/2 cups flour but the loaf is then much smaller. So I opt to go and add the flour. This is really a delicious loaf when freshly baked. Joan,"Flour Power" `[1;36;47mRainbow V 1.18.3 for Delphi - Registered --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v096.n028.10 --------------- From: LIR119@delphi.com Subject: recipe: pretzel rolls Date: Mon, 29 Jul 1996 18:01:54 -0500 (EST) A while ago someone requested pretzels. Here is an unusal recipe for a cross between soft pretzel and a roll. The technique may remind you of bagel making! Surprisingly enough, my younger daughter was taught this in her home ec baking class. I definetely saved this recipe and was impressed with what she learned. Maybe she is a chip off the old block! Ill have to post her pizza recipe another time! PRETZEL ROLLS makes 8 2 3/4 c bread flour 1 pkt dry yeast 1 tsp salt 1 tsp sugar 1 tsp celery seed 1 cup plus 2 tbs. hot water Water solution: 8 cups water 1/4 cup ( yes ) baking soda 2 tbs sugar egg white glaze coarse salt Combine flour, yeast, salt, sugar and celery seeds and add enough water to form a smooth elastic dough . This may be done by hand or food processor.If using the food processor, process all one minute orso and if done by hand knead dough 5 minutes or until smooth , soft and pliable dough. Let dough rise double in a greased covered bowl.When double, punch down and divide into 8 pieces, rolling each piece into a ball. Using a serrated knife, cut an " X " in top center of each ball. Cover with a tea towel and let rise double. Bring 8 cups of water to a boil and add the baking soda and sugar ( water will foam ). Carefully place 4 rolls in the water and cook 30 seconds. Lift out with slotted spoon and place on a cornmeal lined baking sheet. Repeat with remaining rolls. Brush rolls with an egg white glaze ( 1 white mixed with a tsp+ of water ) and sprinkle with coarse salt if desired. Bake in a preheated 35 oven till browned, about 20 to 25 minutes. Cool on rack 10 minutes before serving. Note: boiling of rolls must be done to insure the soft pretzel like texture. Best served warm and the day made. May freeze if desired. Yummy with honey mustard! Joan,"Flour Power" `[1;35;45mRainbow V 1.18.3 for Delphi - Registered --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v096.n028.11 --------------- From: Herldine Radley Subject: Bread machine purchase? Date: Tue, 30 Jul 1996 14:03:30 -0500 (CDT) Hi y'all! I will be purchasing a bread machine for the first time and need your input. I can only spend around $100-$150 for the machine but I want the best machine for the money. I have lurked on this list for around three months and I know all of you have reasons you like or dislike a machine. Please e-mail me your likes and dislikes. I already know about the different sizes of breads but is there anything else? I live in Dallas so the actual purchase will probably be from one of the discount stores (Walmart, Circit City, Incredible Universe...). Most brands are available somewhere in the area. What else do I need to start breadmaking? I have some wonderful recipes from y'all... Thanks!! Herldine M. Radley U TX Southwestern Medical Center Library Dallas TX internet: radley@medcat.library.swmed.edu --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v096.n028.12 --------------- From: bbriscoe@infolink.morris.mn.us (Bonnie Briscoe) Subject: Re: tools are made, born are hands Date: Tue, 30 Jul 1996 22:24:28 -0500 Jeffrey Hamelman said: > My suggestion? Instead of a >bread machine that removes you from direct contact (therefore >understanding) with your bread, far better to buy a Kitchen Aid style >machine. You can mix beautiful doughs, and have a much more complete >involvement with the dough, and how it evolves from minute one to minute >eight. > >I would like to consider this the beginning of a dialogue. If you have an >opinion on this, why not post it? By the way, it was William Blake who said >it: "Tools are made, but born are hands." I agree that there's nothing to equal the experience of making bread by hand. But if the choice is between waiting until I have several hours available to do this (and having, in the meantime, to eat that stuff they sell as bread in the supermarket) or making my own bread in the bread machine, I'll vote for the machine every time. I have had a Kitchen Aid mixer for 21 years, but I wasn't getting enough time during the last few years to use it for making bread. However, in the 18 months I have had my West Bend bread machine, I have not bought a single loaf of bread at the store (I confess to having purchased some bagels) -- and bread is a significant part of my bottom-of-the-food-pyramid eating plan. I love bread, and I love to experiment with developing new recipes. Once I had learned how my machine behaves, I began playing with different combinations of grains and other ingredients. There are at least 10 recipes that I make routinely now, many of which require some pre-soaking of whole or cracked grains. I poke at the dough as it kneads, I tweak it by adding water or flour, I get involved in the process of making every loaf (I *never* just "set it and forget it"). But once the dough is off to a good start, then I'm free to leave the machine alone to do its work for the next 3 hours or so, and I can concentrate on doing my own work without having to worry about what the dough is doing. I admit that occasionally the result from the bread machine is not as good as I would like -- the texture is too coarse or the dough is too dry or too wet, problems that I could detect and correct more easily if I were making the bread by hand. But always, it is better than anything else that is available in town. And if one loaf flops, I haven't lost a huge investment in time or ingredients (and I can still grind it up for bread crumbs). My bread machine has become one of my most essential kitchen appliances because it helps me be more productive in the kitchen *and* in my home office--all at the same time. Just my $.02 worth. Bonnie Briscoe * * * * * * * * * * * * * Bonnie Briscoe internet: bbriscoe@infolink.morris.mn.us Briscoe & Associates -- Editorial Services & Training Program Development 500 East Third St. phone: 320-589-1258 Morris, MN, USA 56267 fax: 320-589-1754 Language is all that separates us from the lower animals-- and from the bureaucrats. * * * * * * * * * * * * * --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v096.n028.13 --------------- From: suesam@usa.pipeline.com (sam hurwitz) Subject: reduce costs Date: Wed, 31 Jul 1996 10:53:50 GMT I think the digest is great and enjoy seeing it grow so quickly. I make a lot of potato bread both for our own use and for gifts. Since I always put caraway seeds into the bread I was constantly running out of it. My daughter, who believes in buying in quantity bought me a bag of it at a baking supply store in Reading, PA. Turned out she bought me ten pounds of caraway seeds! I thought that they would never be used up, but after abaout 4-5 years they were all gone, and I bought another bag a few weeks ago for about $19 at the same place. I don;t remember the name, but it is a large baking supply store around the corner from the Giant market next to Allbright College. The seeds seem to last very nicely in a plastic bag on the shelf for that time period. Sounds like a lot, but they certainly get used up over the years. Keep up the good work. --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v096.n028.14 --------------- From: Don Griffin Subject: Toastmaster machines Date: Thu, 1 Aug 1996 10:56:13 -0500 Hi everybody, I'm new to the list so please forgive me if this topic has already been discussed. I'm getting ready to buy my first bread machine and would appreciate any advice. I can get a good deal on the Toastmaster model (the one that also makes butter) and wanted to talk with someone who actually owns one. Feel free to Email directly. Also, I was wondering about the economics of baking bread using a machine vs. buying bread at the store. Can you really save money by doing it at home after buying the machine, the ingredients, the electric useage, etc.? Thanks, Kiana griffind@oz.sunflower.org --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v096.n028.15 --------------- From: Marcy Lawrence Subject: Sourdough Baking In Bread Machine -- Need Advice Date: Wed, 31 Jul 1996 22:34:28 -0400 Has anyone had success baking a soudough bread without using any commercial yeast, in a bread machine? I'm attempting this task using Ed Wood's instructions in "Worldwide Sourdoughs From Your Bread Machine". So far, all I have is a clump of dough not rising very well. My questions: When mixing the starter and half the flour together for the 8 hour resting period, what should the consistency of the mixture look like? Is it better to place this mixture in a proofing box to keep it warm? What cycle should I use on the machine? I have a Panasonic 1 1/2 lb. machine. I'm using the Russian starter. All advice is appreciated! Thanks, Marcy marcy@j51.com --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v096.n028.16 --------------- From: "Therese Klodnicki" Subject: bread crumbs Date: Sat, 3 Aug 96 16:05:19 UT Does anyone know how I can make and store bread crumbs using my leftover or stale bread. I would like to have plain bread crumbs available similar to if I bought them in the store. I suppose I need to toast them. Does anyone else do this? Thanks, Terry --------------- END bread-bakers.v096.n028 --------------- -------------- BEGIN bread-bakers.v096.n029 -------------- 001 - LIR119@delphi.com - Re: opinion on how bread is made --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v096.n029.1 --------------- From: LIR119@delphi.com Subject: Re: opinion on how bread is made Date: Mon, 29 Jul 1996 18:01:46 -0500 (EST) Dear Jeffrey H. sounds like you are a talented and sincere baker. I hope I can help you appreciate why people use breadmakers. It is true that nothing is comparable to making bread by hand and getting feel for the liveliness of the dough.I been baking bread for over 30 years for enjoyment and also for profit.I also have a kitchen aid heavy duty mixer plus a bread machine! I post both handmade ( sometimes large quantity recipes! ) and breadmachine recipes. While it it certainly true that" hands on" helps ascertain the liveliness and "living quality" of the dough not every person is interested or perhaps I should say intense in their bread making as you or others may be. There is indeed a market for the bread machine for the disabled, the elderly the busy homemaker , the working parent and beg my pardon the lazy person as well as the gadget collector ( me for one :) ) I throughly enjoy this bread-bakers lists because all kinds of bread recipes appear, machine as well as hand made recipes. The bread machine is a unique invention . Its amazing how much discussion is generated on every single topic from recipe ingredients to parts of the machine. People who freqent this list are being educated on all aspects and breadmaking and do get into the scientific how and whys and nitty gritty of yeast baking. Some of them choose not to have a " white thumb".There is nothing to feel sorry about either. Its simply their choice how they make they make their bread. IMHO, just let's enjoy our bread, no matter how we accomplish the finished product! I wish you continued success with your baking and I do hope you understand a bit why some people choose to use the breadmachine. " Diversification is the spice of life " Joan,"Flour Power" `[1;30;43mRainbow V 1.18.3 for Delphi - Registered --------------- END bread-bakers.v096.n029 --------------- Copyright (c) 1996-2000 Regina Dwork and Jeffrey Dwork All Rights Reserved