bread-bakers-digest Sunday, 18 February 1996 Volume 06 : Number 070 Today's Subjects: Re: bread-bakers-digest V6 #65 Comments on Digest V6 #63 Chive Potato Bread Bread sponges Home Made Bread Like Grandma Made. . . Converting recipes No excuses sponge method Any recipes for King's Hawaiian Bread?? Le Cloche Re: bread-bakers-digest V6 #69 Potato Rolls & Bread "Lighter" whole-wheat breads Vegan Recipes Pizza Crust ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Blanche007@aol.com Date: Sun, 11 Feb 1996 22:52:29 -0500 Subject: Re: bread-bakers-digest V6 #65 glad you raised the subject of rapid rise -I really dislike it for the following reasons. One of the things that gives bread personality, flavor, texture and character is the action of the yeast on the other ingredients over time - the less the time, the more blah the result. Sure, rapid rise makes something that looks just like a loaf of bread, but the loaf has all the personality and taste of a piece of cardboard. I challenge you all to do the John Henry test - side by side with both products - there is no contest, ------------------------------ From: CPXD31A@prodigy.com (MR IRWIN H FRANZEL) Date: Mon, 12 Feb 1996 12:24:52 EST Subject: Comments on Digest V6 #63 There has certainly been a lot of activity for me from subscribers to this Digest. I welcome the opportunity to discuss problems with individuals via E-Mail but there are frequently asked questions and problems that I would like to reply to on the Digest. The first topic is the matter of yeast. Yeast is a single cell organism that eats sugar and produces carbon dioxide gas (CO2) and alcohol. There are many different varieties of yeast. Some metabolize or digest the sugar available to themselves more quickly, they are quick or instant yeasts. Some produce different ratios of gas, alcohol and acid compared to others. The nature of yeast and its variety was recognized by Louis Pasteur around 1860. Not very long ago, considering that yeast had been used for 5,000 years before that time. The best yeast we have ever tested in our own laboratory for use with ABMs, is that made by LeSafre, Co., in France. The same company that was established to produce and market yeasts which Pasteur, himself had identified. This SAF yeast is the most popular for commercial use in the world. It has not been available to the public but we have it for sale at reasonable prices. The most common questions about yeast are: 1. How much should I use? Our tests indicate that 1/2 tsp per cup flour is suitable for SAF Instant French Yeast, when the bread is to be baked in an ABM on the regular cycle. 3/4 tsp per cup flour is suitable for the quick cycle. 2. How do I store yeast? Stored properly, yeast can have a very long life (at least four years!) The arch enemy of yeast is water! It should be stored in absolutely dry, airtight containers. Measuring spoons should not be placed into the containers but the yeast should be poured out into smaller containers or measuring spoons. When a vacuum packed package of yeast is opened, a small amount should be put into a small container for daily use, tightly sealed and put into the refrigerator. The rest of the package should be put into a sealable container that is the right size to store the rest in the freezer. The object is to keep the air space to a minimum. Use the yeast from the refrigerated container and open it long enough to measure the yeast and return it to the refrigerator. When the small container needs to be refilled, Allow the container from the freezer to come to room temperature before opening it! Open it and pour the yeast into the small container. Re-cover both cont ainers and return them to their respective locations. 3. Will my breads rise higher if I add more yeast? Generally not! The bread rises because the gas produced by the yeast forms bubbles in the dough. The amount of gas produced is determined by how much sugar is available for the yeast to convert to CO2. The amount the bread rises is determined by how strong the dough is and whether it is able to retain most of the gas produced. 3. Are some brands better than others? In a given application, our testing has indicated that some yeasts are distinctly better than others. We found that Red Star was much better than Fleischmann's in the Zoji S-15. It produced more uniform bread, cost less and produced a better aroma. When we were encouraged to evaluate SAF Instant French Yeast, we found it to be superior to all other yeasts we had tested. It cost a little more than Red Star, (mostly because of shipping charges) but the rise, texture, uniformity, aroma and price, made it the best yeast we had ever tested. As a result we arranged to get the commercial package for our customers. On another note, several subscribers have asked about sources of information. If you don't have a copy of Bread Machine Magic Book of Helpful Hints, by Linda Rehberg and Lois Conway, get one! This book is a valuable source of general information, contains 55 excellent recipes and we think everyone who bakes bread, whether by hand or in an ABM should have a copy. We think this book is so helpful that we offer a copy for only $8.50 when ordered with a Zoji S-15A. I must respond to Ron, who asks, "What is the advantage of using a Bread Machine?" It is a very important question and the answer is the reason that our Rehabilitation organization got involved in the sale of Zojis in the first place. We thought of using bread machines to help improve the state of mind of patients who were suffering from depression. Producing good bread made them feel good about themselves. Many of our clients had suffered injuries to hands, wrists and shoulders that made it impossible for them to make bread, "the old fashioned way". The bread machine opened a door that had been closed to them. It is an excellent rehabilitation tool! It makes anyone feel good, who can give a loaf of bread to a friend and say, "I made it myself!" We have used the Zoji S-15(A) with mentally limited children, anti-social children and others who will cooperate with one another to make a bread for themselves. We have found them to be a powerful teaching tool. That's why we find considera ble advantage in using a bread machine, Ron. E-Mail if I can help. Irwin ------------------------------ From: doreen@mastnet.net (Doreen Howard) Date: Mon, 12 Feb 1996 19:48:43 -0600 Subject: Chive Potato Bread This is my first posting to the Bread Bakers List--I've been lurking for 2-1/2 months and enjoying all the recipes. Thought it was time I shared. I got this recipe off the KitmailBox Web Page under the AOL Chat archives. As usual, I could not leave perfection alone, so I tinkered with it. Here's my version. CHIVE POTATO BREAD 1 egg 1/2 cup PLUS 3 TBS. water 2 TBS. olive oil 1 tsp. lemon juice 2 TBS. powdered milk 1 tsp. salt 2 tsp. sugar 1/4 tsp. white pepper 1/3 cup dry potato flakes or buds 1 TBS. dried chives 1-1/3 cups bread flour 3/4 cup semolina flour 2 tsp. bread machine yeast Load bread machine with ingredients in the appropriate order, according to your machine's instructions. Set machine on lightest crust setting. Makes 1-1/4 pound loaf. This recipe works perfectly in a Panasonic 1-pound machine. Water may have to be increased or reduced for other machines. Doreen Howard doreen@mastnet.net Swimming in CyperSoup, as usual ------------------------------ From: DeniseR860@aol.com Date: Tue, 13 Feb 1996 08:43:48 -0500 Subject: Bread sponges I have never used a sponge before but would love to learn about this since you are so pleased with the resulting bread. I have a friend who has mentioned it in the last year but I have not pursued learning about it. Would you be willing to share your favorite recipe? We'd all love to read it, if not try it! (I plan to try it!) Happy Valentines Denise ------------------------------ From: DeniseR860@aol.com Date: Tue, 13 Feb 1996 08:43:46 -0500 Subject: Home Made Bread Like Grandma Made. . . Ariella, I use several cookbooks but my favorites are written by a local homebaker (local to my city!) who began baking when their was a shortage of bread in the US during a war. (Is that old enough for you?) The author is much older now, obviously, I took two classes under her last year. I must recommend her books to you. They make the best of reading, learning, and breads. America's Bread Book (these do come in softback, now) Mary Gubser Quill Publishers William Morrow, New York ISBN 0-688-11608-6 Mary's Bread Basket and Soup Kettle Morrow William Morrow and Company, Inc. New York (my copy is from 1974) She has another but I don't have it and don't remember it's title. I also use a book by Red Star yeast company: "The Red Star Centennial Braed Sampler" they published it themselves: Universal Foods Corporation Milwaukee, WI 53201 and a 72 page booklet by Fleishman's yeast that cost under $5. "Fleishmann's Bake-It Easy Yeast Book" write for their other booklets and pamphlets at Fleishmann's Yeast Educational Programs P.O. Box 2695 Grand Central Station New York, New York 10017 Hope this helps you compile a good wish list! Denise ------------------------------ From: schapin@mitre.org (Susan Chapin) Date: Tue, 13 Feb 1996 09:07:26 -0500 Subject: Converting recipes >And finally, a question. I have been hesitant to mess around with unproven >(no pun intended) recipes. How does one convert a regular bread recipe to >the bread machine? > >Jean Burnett What I do is to figure out a basic recipe --amount of flour, water, sweetener, oil, salt. Then I take the new recipe and do the fractions on the flour to get it to the bread machine amount of flour and on the liquid to get it to the bread machine amount of liquid, taking into account that liquid sweetener and oil count as liquid more or less. Then I try the converted recipe, watching the knead cycle and adding flour or water as required. I taste the result, and try again. It may take two or three loaves before I am satisfied. Note that most flours do not convert 1 to 1 to wheat by volume -- oat flour in particular is a bit denser -- but hey, for a first draft I usually ignore that, and add more water if necessary. Don't hesitate to play, but don't plan to serve your first converted loaf to company either. - susan - --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Susan Chapin, schapin@mitre.org The MITRE Corporation, McLean, VA, 22102-3481 Phone: 703/883-3610 FAX: 703/883-1397 - --------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ From: Ann Miner Date: Tue, 13 Feb 1996 09:11:46 -0500 (EST) Subject: No excuses >From: "R.C. Sagnella" >Date: Sat, 27 Jan 96 14:15:48 EST >Subject: Excuse My Dust > >I see that there are a number of queries regarding bread machines. I'm >awfully puzzled. We, my wife and I, have been making bread (we grind our >own whole wheat) for many years and have done it, more or less, the old >fashion way with a little help from our KitchenAid mixer, a work horse of a >machine if ever there was one. We make anywhere from five to six loaves at >a time. My question is, where is the advantage in using a bread machine? >Certainly it's not in the time saved, because in either case you must >prepare the dough; furthermore, it seems that you have to wait five hours >and more to realize your efforts of one loaf of bread when you use a >machine. In less time than than that we have five delicious loaves ready. > >Bread making the old fashion way is fun and easy. Raise a little flour dust >and try it. The advantages are many - beyond help for those with arthritic and other medical conditions. I don't have to "prepare the dough" - I put the ingredients in the machine. I walk away. I come back (in about 2-1/2 hours) to a wonderful tasting, fresh loaf of bread and my house smells terrific. I have no mess on the counter to clean up. With my lifestyle, it's either use a machine or buy bread. I'd rather use the machine and have fresh bread. Many people like to mix and knead bread - my mother does this a couple times a week. But, just like everything else in life, it is not for everyone. I have made bread by hand - it is not fun and easy to me. I think we can all co-exist on this list and discuss what we all love - good bread. Ann ------------------------------ From: Kay Klier Date: Tue, 13 Feb 1996 07:37:08 -0800 (PST) Subject: sponge method Yes, I've used the sponge method of breadmaking for years... it's a real energy (human) saver, esp. if you lack arm or hand strength. It's never required more time than conventional bread, so I'm a bit puzzled by the 8-10 hr rise -- unless you're using sourdough or very little yeast or sugar. The old Tassajara Bread Book had lots of good instructions on sponge-method breads, and you might want to look there for detailed methods. I learned the technique from my grandmother -- basically, you just put half the flour (or so -- it should be about like brownie batter in consistency) in the first rise, allow the gluten to develop, stir the sponge down, and add the rest of the flour for the second rise. Cuts kneading time, too. - ---- Kay Klier klier@fern.com (who is about ready to chuck the new bread machine and go back to real bread) ------------------------------ From: Tamara Shaffer Date: Tue, 13 Feb 96 11:08 EST Subject: Any recipes for King's Hawaiian Bread?? Hello from Austin, Texas. Do any of you have a recipe for King's Hawaiian Bread? I buy it at our local HEB grocery stores. It is very light and sweet, and is available either as rolls, or in a large, round loaf, similar to a sourdough (in shape). I'd love to make it at home. I've been on the list, through several changes, since May 1992, and it sure has picked up lately! I eagerly wait for each new digest. Keep it coming!! Thanks in advance if anyone can help with the Hawaiian Bread recipe. TAMARA ------------------------------ From: DougCutler@aol.com Date: Tue, 13 Feb 1996 11:35:30 -0500 Subject: Le Cloche Many years ago I picked up a Le Cloche at a kitchen store sale. I have never used it, not quite true, have used the bottom as a pizza stone!. I just saw a posting regarding starting bread in your ABM then cooking in this "oven". Does anybody use one of these on a regular basis for any type of bread making, if I remember rightly Clayton recommends it in one of his books. Doug Cutler ------------------------------ From: Blanche007@aol.com Date: Tue, 13 Feb 1996 12:24:25 -0500 Subject: Re: bread-bakers-digest V6 #69 Thanks so much for multitudes of responses to those willing to try my new sour dough product - I'm overwhlemed and have to cut off the offer as of last week - or I'll run out of money and never be able to get this up and running. What a response - over 100 people in the first few days (gasp). To those who replied in time - the samples are coming. Please please let me know what you think - I've also enclosed samples of my new Dough Relaxer (for pizza crusts that fight back and pie crusts that won't roll). When I'm in production I'll be happy to send the rest of you samples. Many many thanks! Lora ------------------------------ From: Sally Eisenberg Date: Tue, 13 Feb 1996 09:38:22 -0800 Subject: Potato Rolls & Bread Hi everyone, I to enjoy this list a great deal. Here are some potato recipes. I have not had the chance to make any of the recipes, but they sound great. I have the Tupperware bread boxes and I like them a lot. I also use the plastic bowl covers with the elastic sewn in and use these to cover the cut end of the bread. This keeps it from getting dried out even in the bread box. I call them little hats for the bread. Sounds silly but works wonderfully. Regarding gluten flour I use 3 tablespoons for all my bread machine recipes with fine results. I measure my flour by using a small scoop to lightly fill my measuring cup to over flowing and then use a flat edge knife to leavel the top. This has worked well for me no matter what kind of bread I making in the bread machine or my kitchen aid mixer. Thanks to all for the great recipes and useful information, this is a great sharing list. Sally * Exported from MasterCook II * Potato Icebox Rolls (1954) Recipe By : Serving Size : 36 Preparation Time :0:00 Categories : Rolls/Bisc. Amount Measure Ingredient -- Preparation Method - -------- ------------ -------------------------------- 3/4 pound baking potatoes -- peeled and diced 1 package active dry yeast 1/2 cup water -- warmed 1 cup milk -- warmed 1/2 cup shortening 2 large eggs 1/3 cup sugar 1 1/2 teaspoons salt 4 cups all-purpose flour 1 1/2 cups all-purpose flour 1- Place 3/4 pound baking potatoes peeled and diced and enough water to cover in saucepan. Bring to boil over high heat. Reduce heat to low; cover and simmer 15 to 20 minutes until tender. Drain. Press through ricer, food mill or seive. 2- Dissolve 1 pkg. active dry yeast in 1/2 cup warm water ( 105 degrees F to 115 degress F ), let stand 5 minutes until foamy. Heat 1 cup milk and 1/2 cup vegetable shortening in small saucepan over medium heat until bubbles form around edge of pan, remove from heat. Cool slightly. 3- Beat 2 large eggs, 1/3 cup sugar and 1 1/2 teaspoon salt in mixer bowl at medium speed. Add yeast mixture, milk mixture and riced potatoes; beat until well blended. Gradually beat in 4 cups all purpose flour. Stir in 1 1/2 cups more flour with wooden spoon. 4- Turn dough onto floured surface and knead 8 to 10 minutes until smooth and elastic, kneading in 1/2 to 1 cup flour if needed. Place dough in large greased bowl turning to coat top. Cover dough with heavy plate or plastic wrap and refrigerate overnight or up to 48 hours. 5- About 2 1/2 hours before baking time, punch down dough. Grease 3 dozen 2 1/2-inch muffin pan cups or 3 cookie sheets. Divide dough into 36 equal pieces; roll each piece into a ball and place each into prepared muffin-pan or on cookie sheets. Cover with clean kitchen towels and let rise in warm draft-free place until doubled in size 2 to 2 1/2 hours. 6- Heat oven to 425 degrees F. Bake rolls 12 to 15 minutes until golden brown. NOTES: Per serving; One roll 135 calories, 4.5g fat, 29g carb. - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - * Exported from MasterCook II * Potato Sweet Biscuits Recipe By : Serving Size : 20 Preparation Time :0:00 Categories : Rolls/Bisc. Amount Measure Ingredient -- Preparation Method - -------- ------------ -------------------------------- 2 medium sweet potatoes -- peeled and diced 4 cups all-purpose flour 1/2 cup light brown sugar -- packed 5 teaspoons baking powder 1 teaspoon salt 10 Tablespoons margarine 1/3 cup milk 1- In 3-quart saucepan over high heat, heat sweet-potato dices and enough water to cover to boiling. Reduce heat to low; cover and simmer 12 to 15 minutes until potatoes are fork tender. Drain the potatoes; mash and set aside to cool. 2- Preheat oven to 425 degress F. In large bowl, combine flour, brown sugar, baking powder, and salt. With pastry blender cut in margarine until mixture resembles couarse crumbs. Stir in milk and cooled mashed sweet potatoes; mix until just combined. 3- On lightly floured surface, pat dough into an 8 1/2-inch square. Cut dough in half. Cut each half into 10 equal pieces. Place biscuits, 2-inches apart, on 2 ungreased large cookie sheets. 4- Place cookie sheets on 2 oven racks; bake biscuits 12 to 15 minutes until golden, rotating cookie sheets between upper and lower racks halfway thruogh baking time. Serve biscuits warm. Or cool on wire rack, store in tightly covered container to use within 1 day or wrap in foil and freeze to use within 2 weeks. NOTES: Per serving: One biscuit; 200 calories. 6g fat, 33g carb. - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - * Exported from MasterCook II * Dusty Potato Bread Recipe By : Serving Size : 2 Preparation Time :0:00 Categories : Bread Amount Measure Ingredient -- Preparation Method - -------- ------------ -------------------------------- 2 cups potato water -- warmed 1 package active dry yeast 3 Tablespoons sugar 1 Tablespoon salt 3 cups unbleached all purpose flour 2 Tablespoons shortening -- melted 2 1/2 cups unbleached all purpose flour 2 large potatoes -- diced Combine yeast with warm potato water and let foam.in large mixing bowl. Stir in sugar,salt and 3 cups flour. Beat well to develop gluten. Stir in cooled melted shortening . Add remaining 2 1/2 to 3 cups flour gradually. Turn dough out on a floured surface and knead 8 to 10 minutes. Place in a greased bowl, turning dough once to grease the top. Cover and let rise until doubled in bulk, 1 to 1 1/2 hours. Knead dough down in bowl. Divide dough in half. Shape into balls and place in well-greased rounded pans. Cover and let rise until almost doubled, 45 to 60 minutes. Before baking, dust loaves lightly with flour. Makes 2 loaves. Bake at 400 degrees F. for 35 to 40 minutes. Cool on wire racks. - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Lou&Sally Eisenberg sparky@netgate.net ------------------------------ From: Pat Hewitt Date: Tue, 13 Feb 1996 10:21:57 -0800 (PST) Subject: "Lighter" whole-wheat breads I have been baking breads, white and whole wheat, for many years (but not with a machine, only by hand and Kitchen Aid Mixer help) and have used the whole wheat flours sold in grocer stores and flour I would grind/mill from any Red Winter Wheatberries of no particular brand or source. About one year ago I happen to taste some whole wheat bread an acquaintance of mine had made and I was "in heaven". It was light in texture, sweet to taste, and what I then realized was no after bitter taste I had experienced in my own whole wheat breads. I couldn't get her recipe fast enough and was sure she used some kind of gluten or enhancer - I had tried these in my many experiments before also - but was SOOOO surprised to find that her recipe was very very basic: whole wheat flour, yeast, water, honey, salt. Nothing else! So I had to investigate her methods further to get to the big secret and this was what I found. She grinds her own wheat and used very specifically, a Montana Hard White Spring Wheat. So I immediatedly bought 3 - 50# bags and also her brand of yeast which is Fermipan - and made the most beautiful loaves of whole wheat bread I had every made in my life. I am totally converted to this wheat now and can hardly tolerate eating any other kind of bread. So this is my story of finding the "perfect bread recipe". If anyone is interested in the details of this recipe I will gladly bring it in to work and post it for you. Pat Hewitt hewitt@sequent.com ------------------------------ From: sherry@gorge.net (Sherry Rose) Date: Tue, 13 Feb 1996 11:38:05 -0800 Subject: Vegan Recipes Hello All, I am new to this list and am enjoying it very much. I am vegetarian and eat no eggs or dairy. I use a Westbend bread machine for all of my baking. Is there anyone else who is vegetarian no eggs or dairy and uses a bread machine who would like to exchange tried-and-liked bread recipes with me? Regards, Sherry Rose in Oregon ------------------------------ From: Sally Eisenberg Date: Tue, 13 Feb 1996 11:10:49 -0800 Subject: Pizza Crust Hi All, Here is a really good pizza crust. We have made this one twice and it has become a favorite. My husband rolls out the dough and puts on the toppings and then bakes it. All I do is make the dough, what an easy dinner, I love it. One thing be sure to use the fresh grated parmesan cheese, not the green can stuff as Donna German says. I guarantee you will like this crust. Sally * Exported from MasterCook II * Parmesan Thin Crust Pizza Dough Recipe By : Donna German Serving Size : 1 Preparation Time :0:00 Categories : Italian Amount Measure Ingredient -- Preparation Method - -------- ------------ -------------------------------- 1 teaspoon active yeast 2 cups bread flour 1/4 teaspoon salt 1/2 cup parmesan cheese -- freshly grated 1 Tablespoon olive oil 2/3 cup water -- lukewarm Put ingredients in the bread machine according to the instructions of your machine. Use the dough cycle. Pizza dough may be refrigerated, in a loosely wrapped plastic bag, for up to one week. Remove dough when needed, roll it out, top with your favorite ingredients and bake. If using pizza pans , the oven should be preheated for at least 30 minutes at 500 degrees F. If using stone the oven should be preheated for 1 hour at 500 dgrees F. to heat the stone porperly. Bake 15 to 20 minutes. - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Lou&Sally Eisenberg sparky@netgate.net ------------------------------ End of bread-bakers-digest V6 #70 ********************************* bread-bakers-digest Sunday, 18 February 1996 Volume 06 : Number 071 Today's Subjects: What a Relief! ABM manual procedure Re: Bread using sponge Re: bread-bakers-digest V6 #63 Irish Soda Bread Yeast-free, sugar-free recipes? re: REQ: Bread Book Recommendation King Arthur hello + recipe bread digest Food Processor dough. For men only! web sites manual vs machine Chorleywood process in High Speed Mixers Sticky Knead Bar (West Bend) Lebanese flat bread Bulk Yeast Adding grain? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "R.C. Sagnella" Date: Wed, 14 Feb 96 21:43:23 EST Subject: What a Relief! A while back, I wrote a short passage questioning the merits of the ABM. Subsequently, I have received aseveral friendly letters from readers explaining their preferences for the ABM. They were all very interesting. I am, however, partial to Cherie Ambrosino's discovery that bread making the old fashion way - for those who have the time and inclination and are not encumbered by a disability - is fun. There's no mystery to making good bread, only a willingness to learn to do it "correctly." You have to understand, through trial and error, how weather affects flour, how to mix your ingredients, and how to know when it's right. For that there is no substitute for your personal touch ... No matter what your preference, hands on or bread baking by machine, bread making is fun and rewarding. ABM, however, does have on advantage that a reader passed on to me: if something goes wrong, you can always blame the machine. Ron ------------------------------ From: leon.gerst@ccs.org (Leon Gerst) Date: Wed, 14 Feb 1996 17:05:00 GMT Subject: ABM manual procedure vegasjb@ix.netcom.com Sun, 4 Feb 1996 wrote: >the years and I have found that for good results I always do it by >touch as the bread mixes I feel and add more water or flour as needed, >and I never have problems with poor quality bread.In place of oil in my Marcia, What do you mean "by touch and feel as the bread mixes"? Don't have an ABM yet. Thought you just dumped everything in the pot, closed the lid, and away it went...? What IS the manual procedure using the ABMs? Leon Des Plaines IL ------------------------------ From: ShaunaR989@aol.com Date: Wed, 14 Feb 1996 17:44:24 -0500 Subject: Re: Bread using sponge >>Have been using a receipe I got from Fine Cooking a year or so ago, that >.requires a sponge, maturing in about 8-10 hours. Then, bread >>dough mixed and allowed to rise slowly--overnight. I love the result >>and tolerate the method. Anyone else using this? Or, does anyone do >.anything with sponges. I haven't tried the recipe you mentioned, but I've been making more and more breads with sponges in the last year because the flavor and texture are so much better. I don't even mind the wait--it lets me break up the breadmaking tasks a little more so I can fit them into my schedule better. What I haven't really gotten a handle on is how to convert a regular recipe to a sponge. Does anyone have any rules of thumb? Shauna Roberts in New Orleans ShaunaR989@aol.com ------------------------------ From: Cindy Bombassei & Robert Rauzi Date: Thu, 15 Feb 96 07:16 EST Subject: Re: bread-bakers-digest V6 #63 For a nice draft warm place to rise bread. I have always done it this way with great results. Warm oven to 150 degrees and turn it off. Put bread in for the second rise. Let rise 30 min. Leave bread in oven, turn on at 350, set timer for 36 min and let bake. Cindy ------------------------------ From: Marta Martin Date: Wed, 14 Feb 1996 04:31:27 -0500 Subject: Irish Soda Bread Hi All, First, just wanted to echo Priscilla's sentiments on the Tupperware Bread Machine Bread Keepers.....they work very well. I have two of them! This is a wonderfully simple recipe.....needs no ABM, and if you use the Buttermilk Baking Powder with skim it should bring the fat count down to almost nothing since there are no eggs or butter in this. It really is quite good. IRISH SODA BREAD 4 cups flour 1 tsp baking soda 2 tsp salt 1 cup sugar 2 tbs caraway seeds 1/2 box raisins 2 1/2 cups buttermilk Mix together first four ingredients. Mixing well, add final three. Pour into two greased loaf pans and bake for 55 minutes at 350 degrees. Nice and moist! Keeps well, too. Have a great week, Marta ========================================================================= Marta Martin-(marta@citynet.net) Love is the ultimate outlaw. It just won't adhere to any rules. The most any of us can do is sign on as its' accomplice. Tom Robbins Do not fear for I am with you, Do not be dismayed for I am your God. Isaiah 41:10 Shake your hips and hope for the best. Camille, age 9 ========================================================================= ------------------------------ From: Bonnie Fulmer Date: Thu, 15 Feb 1996 08:01:22 EST Subject: Yeast-free, sugar-free recipes? Dear Bread Experts, My friend's husband has just been put on a special diet, and he cannot eat anything with yeast or sugar (or vinegar, peanuts, etc., etc., etc!) He prefers sandwiches for lunch, and is getting really tired of matzoh and sourdough breads. He has no restrictions on the types of flour he can eat, though. Do you have any recipes for breads that do not contain any yeast or sugar? Is this even possible? Thanks for any recipes you can share! Bonnie Fulmer Rhinebeck, NY 12572 gbf1@maristb.marist.edu ------------------------------ From: ShaunaR989@aol.com Date: Wed, 14 Feb 1996 17:43:55 -0500 Subject: re: REQ: Bread Book Recommendation Ariella Jopling wrote: >>I would like a recommendation for a bread book. Not the kind with the >>new, fancy, yuppie recipes in them, but the kind of recipes that my >>grandmother would have been baking in the '50s. All I'm really concerned >>with is the fact that the recipes are for hand made bread, and are "tried >.and true." I just got _The Secrets of Jesuit Breadmaking_ by Brother Rick Curry, S.J. New York, HarperCollins, 1995). It may be the kind of book you're looking for: Simple, hearty recipes that had been feeding hungry monks for years, sometimes decades, before being collected for this book. I've only made two recipes from it so far, but was pleased with both. Shauna Roberts in New Orleans ShaunaR989@aol.com ------------------------------ From: Leotah@aol.com Date: Wed, 14 Feb 1996 11:53:40 -0500 Subject: King Arthur This is a note in praise of King Arthur, not just because I like their flour and other products, but because their baking department is so helpful. I had trouble with a recipe, and although it was not theirs, Erica of their baking department went to heroic efforts to help me, tracking down a friend who made a similar bread, and calling me back with several suggestions. So, thanks to King Arthur. Laury Epstein ------------------------------ From: mvinqvist@mta.ca (Mindy Vinqvist) Date: Fri, 16 Feb 1996 09:59:35 -0400 Subject: hello + recipe Hello, I just joined, thanks to info from a friend of mine, Dennis. Your digest is really interesting and I enjoy what I have read so far. I have been baking bread by hand since I was about 12 years old (I'm 28 now), but my hubby recently bought me a bread machine which I adore. I like the hands on baking because it is soothing, and will always use that method to make rolls I think, but the bread machine is quick and convenient (especially since I work and it is nice to come home to fresh bread), less messy, and my son likes to watch it work through the little window (I guess I am less exciting to watch). I have tried kits and plus I have adapted some favorite recipes and am quite pleased, except for a couple of questions.... ...when I make 50% whole wheat by hand it raises better than any other variety, but in the bread machine it doesn't...why? I've also tried 100% whole wheat and multigrain bread in the machine and it doesn't rise much (though it is still soft and tasty). I do have gluten which I have used when it was called for? Should I avoid the whole wheat cycle and stick to regular? Plus, when I have made recipes where I am to add things, like raisins or whatever, part way into the process (at the beep in the knead cycle), the things do tend to accumulate more near the bottom, even though I do poke at the dough with a soft spatula to help things mix (you know what I mean). Advice? I have a super yummy recipe that I got from somebody (Please forgive me but I don't remember who) on the eat-l recipe list. The chocolate chips melt and make chocolate swirls (yummy). I added pecans too since I ran out of walnuts...here it is Chocolate Walnut Bread (1 1/2 pound loaf) 1 egg+enough water to = 3/4 cup + 2 tbsp 1/2 tsp salt 3 tbsp brown sugar 1 tbsp butter 1/2 tsp vanilla 2 1/4 c flour 1 tbsp dry milk 1 1/4 tsp yeast 3/4 c chocolate chips 1/4 c chopped walnuts Measure carefully, placing all ingred in bread machine pan in the order recommended by the manufacturer. Select sweet cycle, do not use delay. Add chips and walnuts at beep in knead cycle. Notes: I had to add a bit of water during the kneading, but I didn't really measure it and you guys may wish to keep an eye on it and adjust it for yourselves, plus the original recipe used only 1 tsp yeast, which likely is fine but I didn't try it that way. Bye for now, please feel free to e-mail me or post answers to my (probably) silly questions. ;-) Mindy mvinqvist@mta.ca ------------------------------ From: LoisCon@aol.com Date: Thu, 15 Feb 1996 23:58:00 -0500 Subject: bread digest Tim asked about bulk yeast. I store mine in the freezer Tim. I do pull some off and put it into a small jar so it is easier to get at. It should last a year that way. Daniela asked about bread machines with a dough cycle which can be set on a timer. Some of the new Toastmaster models have that feature. If you have an older model 1 1/2 pound Panasonic, that was a standard feature on the crisp dough cycle. For all of you who want the King Arthur catalogue:1-800-827-6836 There have been several questions on storage of bread. Linda and I got a wonderful plastic bread box, which expands and holds the largest bread machine bread. It is called Wanda's Bread Box. We purchased it at Williams-Sonoma and we both notice that the bread stays fresher longer with it. Lois Conway (and Linda Rehberg) Bread Machine Magic and The Bread Machine Magic Book of Helpful Hints. For more information please contact me at: LoisCon@AOL.com I am happy to answer personal questions ------------------------------ From: Juliet Nalven Date: Wed, 14 Feb 1996 14:26:44 -0800 (PST) Subject: Food Processor dough. Thanks for taking part of your life to keep this list going. I just started recieving the mailings and been pleased with your responses to questions. I have an old DAK machine which sits covered on the floor, dreaming of making bread. But that darn stirring blade stays put. (previous contributor noted this with the West Bend). My solution was to (when bread has cooled in pan or out) to unwind the 'blade' and not pull it out. Yes a gap is left but no dough removed. But the real reason (I've been baking bread by hand for over 15 years) I stopped was the loss of control and the same boring shape. I now use my Cuisinart(extra large), with the regular knife blade. It's tricky, but once you find the correct consistency, it only takes 1-2 minutes to knead the dough. Over heating the dough can occur if left to knead much longer. I haven't tried it with whole grains. Mostly to make the softer doughs, egg bread ( Challah ), pizza, french bread, potato/corn meal. The advantages are that if I'm having a pizza party I can whip up tons of dough in a few minutes or make a party/dip loaf. I've also taken to producing huge crusty loaves with raggety tops. I smear the insides with some oil, cover with loose plastic wrap and close machine. Hitting the pulse switch to punch it down. The dough rises in the food processor, blade and all. Then dump the rough mass onto corn meal, or sesame seeds. Gently remove blade from top of mass. Pinch together the top here and there. Spray with water or dust with flour, bake at 450 F for 30 min. reduce to 350 for 20 min. or until it 'clunks'. Instant Potato Bread 450 F yield: 2/4x8 loaves (appx) 1/ 15x7"loaf 1.5- 2 tsp yeast (dry) 1/3 - 1/2 C sugar 1 T salt 1/4 C instant potato ( granulated,flakes may work) 2 T cornmeal (not cornFLOUR) 6 C Bread flour 3 3/4 to 4 C water I don't like a sour white bread, so a longer rise with less yeast is OK. Julia Childs "Best Chefs" series made a bread which looked like this one, raised in a basket, filled with olives. VERY slow rise. Crusty and fluffy inside. However this one is soft inside, and somewhat dense, like a bagel. a Montreal Bagel. Regards, Juliet Nalven, Eugene Oregon ------------------------------ From: CorgiSews@aol.com Date: Fri, 16 Feb 1996 10:57:53 -0500 Subject: For men only! My local paper, the Rochester Times Union, last week had an article about Bread Machines last week. Included was an annoucement of a contest FOR MEN ONLY. Sponsored by Black & Decker Household products, ABM recipes can be submitted in three categories: healthiest, most exotic and dessert breads. Contest ends April 30. Entry forms & rules can be obtained by sending a SASE to: Real Men Bake Bread Contest, P.O. Box 4320, Manhasset, NY 11030-4320. Grand prize is an all-expense-paid week in Paris, including bread making classes at the Cordon Bleu Cooking School. Six regional winners will receive $500. and be flown to NYC for final judging in May. Of course, if any of you guys enter this and are regional winners, we expect to see the recipes posted here - in due time. On second thought, the rules probably state the recipes become the property of Black & Decker! Debby, CorgiSews@aol.com Sewing is more interesting when your corgi uses the foot pedal as a chin rest. ------------------------------ From: Marta Martin Date: Wed, 14 Feb 1996 18:59:46 -0500 Subject: web sites Here are a couple of bread machine recipe web sites for those of you who are interested. www.use.net/~dahasher/bread_machine.html www.limey.net/~fiji/bread Marta ========================================================================= Marta Martin-(marta@citynet.net) ========================================================================= ------------------------------ From: emily@goblin.com (Emily Woudenberg) Date: Wed, 14 Feb 1996 23:38:39 -0700 Subject: manual vs machine On Feb. 5 Cherie Ambrosino asked about chosing between the two different sizes of Kitchenaid mixers. If you can possibly afford it,Cherie, I recommend purchasing the larger, 5 qt, machine. The engine is stronger and I find it easier to use when lifting out the beaters (the K-5 lifts the beaters straight up.) I'm sure others have comparable stories, but I have been using (and abusing) my K-5 for everything, particularly bread-making, since 1970! And it doesn't even look any different than the new ones! They've kept it looking just exactly the same, which for some reason I find extremely comforting. Regarding using a bread-machine vs the Kitchenaid or the manual method: aside from its obvious advantages for those with arthritis, fibromegalia, or other joint -problems, the bread-machine is a champion of neatness! Everything is self-contained--no flour flying around, no counters to scrape. Sometimes this is so important to me. But the total amount of flour you can use, at least in my larger machine, is 3 to 3/12 cups of flour. In my Kitchenaid I can mix 6 cups, which makes more loaves at once. I have discovered that if I drape my Kitchenaid mixer in a big old kitchen towel (sort of shroud it completely) when I am adding the last few cups of flour, it doesn't send out flurries of flour all over. Finally, I regard the manual method of mixing and kneading like I do driving in my old stick-shift car--it feels good to do it; the experience is authentic; but it's just not very convenient. However, I do tend to hover over my bread-machine while it is kneading so I can keep an eye on the relative dryness or wetness of the dough--and I almost always shape it and bake it in the oven myself rather than using the complete baking cycle! So who's fooling whom about "convenient"? BTW, could someone (re)enlighten me about how much vital wheat gluten to add to all-purpose flour to make it approximate bread flour? I read this recently , but can't recall exaxctly where. Was it 1 Tablespoon per cup of all-purpose flour? Thanks for a tremendously enlightening forum! - --Emily Emily Woudenberg emily@goblin.com ------------------------------ From: David Cripps Date: Thu, 15 Feb 1996 15:07:38 +1100 (EST) Subject: Chorleywood process in High Speed Mixers Hi everybody, Our Bakery in Southern Tasmania uses a High Speed Dough Mixer manufactured by Tweedy of Burnley for the Automatic production of our bread lines. This model of mixer (5500) allows us to use the Chorleywood Bread Process of dough mixing, however the high temperatures encountered during the mixing cycle, require large ammounts of chilled water to be added to the flour and ingredients. By increasing the final dough temperature we have reduced our chilled water requirements, but the consequences of doing so tend to make for an overmixed dough. As I understand it, the original manufacturers Tweedy are now owned by APV Baker Pty Ltd, of Burnley in Lancashire. We would like nothing better than to be able to make contact with other Bakeries with similar dough mixers, to compare notes on dough types, & the results of different recipe types. If your Bakery has a similar dough mixer, I would be delighted to hear from you. Kind regards David Cripps - -- dcripps@ozemail.com.au 20 Croydon Ave., Hobart, Tasmania. PH 61-02-725267 ------------------------------ From: Robert Turnbull Date: Tue, 13 Feb 1996 20:39:18 -0500 Subject: Sticky Knead Bar (West Bend) >From: jonathan@cyberus.ca (Jonathan File) >Subject: Help! Bread sticks to my paddle >I've got a Westbend bread maker. It is about 1.5 years old now. For the >last while, I've had a heck of a time getting my loaf out of the pan...the >reason being, the paddle won't come out of the cooked loaf. >Jonathan Call the West Bend 800 number. When I had started having sticky paddle problems they gave me a new redesigned paddle. (made of teflon or some similar slippery material). This cured the problem. ------------------------------ From: CorgiSews@aol.com Date: Fri, 16 Feb 1996 10:58:11 -0500 Subject: Lebanese flat bread The inquiry about Lebanese flat bread sent me back to the local library, where I remembered seeing a book that might be of interest. It is "Pita The Great" by Virginia T. Habeeb. Workman Publishing, NYC, 1986 On pg 13, the author says,"The Lebanese marook is shaped by hand in much the same manner as pizza, by tossing and stretching the dough until it is well over a foot in size. It is then flipped onto a concave shaped metal surface set over a heat source where it bakes quickly in minutes. The Armenians have a similar bread, called lavash, which is baked to a cracker-like crispness and measures anywhere from 5 to 20 inches." Then on page 31 is a recipe for Unleavened Griddle-Baked Pita. (Makes 12) 3 cups unbleached all-purpose flour. ( OR 2 cups all purpose flour & 1 cup whole wheat flour) plus flour for kneading. 1 teaspn salt 1 to 1 1/2 cups warm water (90 to 110 degrees F) Vegetable oil 1. Mix with a wooden spoon, the flour & salt in a large bowl. Add water till the dough pulls away from the sides of the bowl and is no longer sticky and is smooth. 2. Knead till smooth & elastic on a well floured board - 5 minutes. 3. Shape the dough into a rectangle, and divide into 12 smooth balls. Cover with sliighly damp towels & let rest for 5 to 10 minutes. 4 . Gently press each ball flat, keeping round shape. With floured work surface & rolling pin, roll each round to a 6 to 7 inch circle, paper thin. Cover with a slighly damp towel. 5. Lightly oil a griddle or large skillet & warm over medium high heat until hot. Gently stretch each round as thin as possible without holes as you place it on the griddle. Cook until browned, bubbly spots appear on the bottom, about 1 1/2 minutes; turn and brown the other side. Remove from the pan and immediately wrap in a clean towel until cool enough to handle. Serve warm or at room temp. 6. Repeat with all. Pan will have to be re-oiled after 3-4. Do not add too much oil or the pitas will be soggy and heavy. ****************************************************************** This book also includes many interesting stuffing recipes, dips, spreads, soups, tea, yogurt and such sweets as glazed pita puffs and apricot & apple combinations. Posting for the first time to this list. Thanks to all of you (especially LoisCon@.aol.com and her book, The Bread Machine Book of Helpful Hints ) for information that has made our first few weeks with an ABM much easier. We have a Zo, bought after returning a Breadman Plus due to it's burning, heavy crust. Debby Sewing is more interesting when your corgi uses the foot pedal as a chin rest! ------------------------------ From: DeniseR860@aol.com Date: Wed, 14 Feb 1996 13:52:21 -0500 Subject: Bulk Yeast Timothy, I buy yeast in bulk, as you do, and have bought the Red Star you mentioned. I keep mine in the freezer, in it's original packing that is in a freezer ziploc. I have kept it there for a year with no change in results. I take it out, measure it, and make my bread. I don't bake weekly so this helps me save the $$ that I want to over the three strip packs of yeast. It has worked for years like this for me. I even have just finished a package that I've had for over a year and it worked until I used it up. Really, I just have it handy in my freezer that is part of my refrig in the kitchen. Denise ------------------------------ From: rKimble@OREGON.UOREGON.EDU (Reeva Kimble) Date: Thu, 15 Feb 1996 15:30:06 -0800 (PST) Subject: Adding grain? I would like to add wheat berries, oat berries or rye berries to bread machine recipes. I assume I should soak the berries first? How long? An hour or overnight? Should the liquid in the recipe be decreased because of the extra liquid added to the grain? Any thought on this matter would be appreciated. Thanks Reeva Kimble Eugene, Oregon ------------------------------ End of bread-bakers-digest V6 #71 ********************************* bread-bakers-digest Sunday, 18 February 1996 Volume 06 : Number 072 Today's Subjects: Digest Hamburger Buns Re: Machine vs. Manual Re: bread-bakers-digest V6 #68 response just bread,,,,,, Apology! Re: bread-bakers-digest V6 #69 bread-bakers-digest V6 #68 bobliography Lecithin bread-bakers-digest V6 #68 bread-bakers-digest V6 #68 -- manual vs. machine Sweet doughs ? Crispy Crusty Bread ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Sharp, Kenneth" Date: Fri, 16 Feb 1996 11:34:04 -0800 Subject: Digest I have been receiving the digest for about 3 weeks and thoroughly enjoy it, unlike some of the other lists I have tried. With that said, I am interested if there have been discussions or if anyone has interests in pasta or noodle recipes, a bread in some respects. I would like to learn about pasta/noodle recipes and I am particularly interested in finding out if anyone has information or guidance about making rice noodles for Asian cuisine and whole gain pastas. ------------------------------ From: Blueiis1@aol.com Date: Fri, 16 Feb 1996 11:33:24 -0800 Subject: Hamburger Buns Hi Everyone! I was reading the recent accolades for Irwin and would like to add mine. My husband gave me a Zo for Christmas and Irwin has been great about answering my questions. Thanks Irwin! Now, does anyone have a recipe for hamburger buns for the bread machine? Also, maybe a tad off subject, I would love to have the recipe for the Sara Lee Pecan Coffee Cake. I have tried for a year to get this recipe. I could almost eat a whole one by myself. Its one of those cakes you hide in the back of the fridge so only you know where it is! Thanks Debbie ------------------------------ From: Janet_Wilson@mindlink.bc.ca (Janet Wilson) Date: Fri, 16 Feb 1996 11:34:06 -0800 Subject: Re: Machine vs. Manual I like making bread both ways, but I have specific reasons for choosing one method over another. Our family only goes through one loaf a day on average. Frozen bread is not the same a fresh bread, so I would much rather use the machine every day. That way, we are not drowning in bread, always have a lovely fresh loaf, and enjoy the aroma of fresh baking bread every day. I often set the cycle so that the baking coincides with visitors. The aroma gets raves. The machine also takes MUCH less time. Once you memorize your favourite recipes, it is much quicker to just fill the pan in the am. and walk away till the baking is done. I would venture to say that even per loaf, there is less time involved in machine bread than hand made bread. With the machine I can also try out a new recipe without committing a lot of time and materials. I make hand made bread when we have a crowd and need to feed lots of people. For hand made bread, I only use tried and true recipes. I hate investing all that time and flour to end up with 4 inedible loaves. I test recipes at our cabin, where there is no electricity! Breadmakers are my favourite wedding gift. I have the WestBend Automatic Bread and Dough Maker...great machine, great price, great customer suppport. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Janet_Wilson@mindlink.bc.ca Tsawwassen (Vancouver), BC, Canada ------------------------------ From: Kathryn Hagen <73174.2455@compuserve.com> Date: Fri, 16 Feb 1996 11:34:08 -0800 Subject: Re: bread-bakers-digest V6 #68 Ron asks: >My question is, where is the advantage in using a bread machine? >Certainly it's not in the time saved, because in either case you must >prepare the dough; furthermore, it seems that you have to wait five hours >and more to realize your efforts of one loaf of bread when you use a >machine. In less time than that we have five delicious loaves ready. Ron, I'm really confused as to 1) where you find your time savings in making bread by hand and 2) what you mean by "preparing the dough" when using a bread machine. 1) It takes less than five minutes to put the ingredients in the bread pan and four hours (3 if you use the light cycle) until the bread is ready. 2) You don't have to mix any ingredients when you use a bread machine. I have arthritis in my hands and spine and could no more make bread "the old fashion (sic) way" than the proverbial man in the moon. Also, with only my husband and I to feed, having five loaves of bread at one time is four too many. :-) Kathy ------------------------------ From: LoisCon@aol.com Date: Fri, 16 Feb 1996 17:51:12 -0500 Subject: response Subj: Re: bread digest Date: Fri, Feb 16, 1996 9:02 AM EDT From: bj29@mirage.skypoint.com X-From: bj29@mirage.skypoint.com (bjjan) For Daniela: A method I use when I want to Use a DELAY plus Dough cycle and my 1# Pana only lets me DELAY on other settings, not dough! If I have a rough idea when I want my dough to be done waiting for me????... Example: If I think I will be coming home about 5 o'clock, I set my bread machine for: BASIC CYCLE and set TIMER FOR 6:30 p.m. What I am trying to do is TRICK my machine. My machine is planning the ACTUAL BAKING of my BREAD at 6:00!! I come in the door at 5 or 5:15 or 5:30 and I still have enough time to go over to the machine and press CANCEL At this point, the machine is only in RISE, NOT getting HOT or BAKING When I press CANCEL, the dough can just SIT there until I really want to use it I hope you understand?? It is sort of confusing, but it works! I hope this isn't too confusing.....Bev in MN ------------------------------ From: "Neil T. Dunn" Date: Sat, 17 Feb 1996 13:42:33 +-1000 Subject: just bread,,,,,, Hello everyone; I have been subscribing to this list for quite sometime and have read so = much useful information, it is almost staggering. I came from a = houisehold where MOM was modern and didn't take the time to bake her own = bread, yet grandma did. I would occassionally havbe the opportunity to = experience the great aroma of the bread baking process. Over the years = I tried on many occassions to simulate those good old days and = pleasureable moments, but not with much success. Having been a twenty = year military man also didn't leave many opportunities to constantly = experiment day in and day out. Also being single I was usually = overwhelmed by the mess remaining to be cleaned. In fact, just the = daily routine of cleaning up after cooking any decent meal was viewed = with strong disdain. The truth of the matter is the introduction of the = bread making machine. It fits perfectly into my single life style. It = impresses dates and it only leaves me one item to clean afterwards vice = a bowl, a mixing utensil, a countertop or board sprinkled with flour, = not to mention the flour I used to spill as a clutzy around the kitchen = sort of guy, and all the used food items such as egg shells, etc. Add = to this the time involved and in my particular case, which I am not = afraid to admit, over cooking about 1/4 of the time. =20 Folks, in my situation there is only solution!!!! GIVE ME BREAD MAKING = MACHINE OR GIVE ME DEATH!!! I am not very artistic or ingenious when it comes to trying NEW ideas = either. My many attempts at experimentation have, 100% of the time, = resulted in disaster. Even when they look good, they taste like = something directly out of the pits of hell. Folks, I am sure there are = many others like me who have nothing substantial to contribute to this = list, but who greatly appreciate all the effort you put forward in = taking the time to put your ideas and recipes down in writing. Believe = me, the silent majority is alive and we are reading eagerly every word = you kindly share. Remember, I have nothing substantial to contribute. = Truth is, my kitchen escapades could be chronicled and shown as a HBO = Comedy spectacular. Please everyone, KEEP THOSE RECIPES AND IDEAS = COMMING IN. Someone is reading and appreciating every word. Thanks to you ALL! Neil Dunn, from the EDGE of the WORLD, GUAM...where America's day = begins....Paradise!! ------------------------------ From: "Natalie Frankel" Date: Sat, 17 Feb 1996 00:48:18 -0600 (CST) Subject: Apology! I need to apologize for posting a recipe for 7 or 9 grain bread last week without giving credit to the original poster. I'm sorry that I don't HAVE the name of the poster because I copied it into my recipe file, make a few changes so it would work in my fussy breadmaker, then copied it, without any header or credit to this list. I really forgot my manners on this one! If the wonderful baker that originally posted it saw it and cringed, please forgive me. It was very unintentional. A nice person sent me a gentle reminder and I appreciated that very much. Natalie Frankel Milwaukee, WI ------------------------------ From: Kronshage@aol.com Date: Sat, 17 Feb 1996 15:04:43 -0500 Subject: Re: bread-bakers-digest V6 #69 Betty Kuenzel asked about a recipe for asiago cheese bread. I made a bread called Italian Easter bread from a book called The Bread Machine Gourmet (have loaned the book at the moment, so I can't provide more details at the moment); it called for asiago cheese and was made using the dough cycle on the bread machine. It was creamy and wonderful! Hope this helps. This is my first contribution to the digest, which I have been receiving for a couple of months. Have used a bread machine for 3+ years: a Hitachi HBB201 and am very pleased with it. (I was surprised to read all the negatives about this machine in the digest.)--Una Kronshage ------------------------------ From: BreadMagician@prodigy.com (MRS LINDA L REHBERG) Date: Sat, 17 Feb 1996 22:12:29 -0800 Subject: bread-bakers-digest V6 #68 To: Rod McColl Good afternoon from San Diego, California. I think the best baker's catalog is King Arthur's. They do not have an E-mail address but here's their mailing address: The Baker's Catalog P.O. Box 876 Norwich, VT 05055-0876 U.S.A Even if you have to pay extra for postage, it would be worth it just for one catalog. Enjoy! Linda Rehberg ------------------------------ From: Reggie Dwork Date: Fri, 16 Feb 1996 23:05:03 -0800 Subject: bobliography A list member has offered to compile a bibliography for books that we all use and enjoy. If anyone wants to contribute to this please send a message to . It would be helpful if you would put the name of the book, author, ISBN#, if it is a bread machine, hand made, cuisinart made, mixer with dough hooks, a combo book or any other helpful info. I would also be interested in reading why you enjoy this particular book. She is hoping to break the list into hand made and machine made and any other sub-groups that might be helpful. So, send in your preferences. Thanks, Reggie - -- Reggie Dwork | Om Mani Padme Hung reggie@reggie.com | Owner bread-bakers, eat-lf and otbf mailing lists ------------------------------ From: BreadMagician@prodigy.com (MRS LINDA L REHBERG) Date: Sat, 17 Feb 1996 22:12:33 -0800 Subject: Lecithin Betty, Lois and I tested breads using granular lecithin alone as a dough enhancer. We found that alone it had no effect on the height of the loaf; however, when combined with vital wheat gluten, it actually produced a taller loaf than when using only gluten. So, when using lecithin, we always combine it with gluten for best results. BTW, avoid the liquid lecithin. It's extremely sticky and difficult to work with. Linda Rehberg ------------------------------ From: BreadMagician@prodigy.com (MRS LINDA L REHBERG) Date: Sat, 17 Feb 1996 22:12:31 -0800 Subject: bread-bakers-digest V6 #68 To: Tim Shih The trick to freezing those 1 and 2 lb bulk packages of yeast is freezing. Remove just enough for a few weeks of baking and place in a tightly sealed, small jar (something the size of a baby food jar). Then seal up the original package well, place in a ziplock bag and place in the freezer. You'll find that it will last at least one year that way! Air and heat are yeast's enemies so always keep it tightly sealed and cool (and dry). Linda Rehberg ------------------------------ From: "Angie Klidzejs" Date: Tue, 13 Feb 96 15:33:25 CDT Subject: bread-bakers-digest V6 #68 -- manual vs. machine In response to the question about whether to buy a 4.5 or 5 qt KitchenAid mixer, definitely get the 5 qt model. I started out with the 4.5 qt "Classic" model (250 watts) a little over a year ago. While it was adequate for most things, I wasn't entirely happy with it. Some bread doughs and double-batches of cookies simply stopped the machine. I lucked out because a friend was interested in buying it from me. I immediately went out and bought a 5 qt Heavy Duty model (325 watts) which works much better when I decide to push it. Even going one step up, to the 350 watt, might not be a bad idea for those who have the extra money to spend. Check prices at various kitchen supply stores, and watch prices at major department stores -- the mixers do go on sale from time to time. If you can find a good sale, the price is not that much greater than for the 4.5 qt models. The other drawback to the "Classic" mixer was its screw-base bowl with no handle; this sometimes got stuck in the mixer and was hard to remove. - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Date: Tue, 13 Feb 96 17:23:45 EST Subject: Sweet doughs ? Why does it take longer for sweet , rich bread doughs to rise? I would think that the yeast would have more to "eat", therefore rise faster! Just wondering... - -- Lorna McCloud Teacher-Librarian King Elementary Woodbridge, VA lmccloud@pen.k12.va.us ------------------------------ From: Sally Eisenberg Date: Tue, 13 Feb 1996 11:52:50 -0800 Subject: Crispy Crusty Bread Made this bread over the weekend and it is a real good tasting bread. Enjoy. Sally * Exported from MasterCook II * Dutch Crunch Bread Recipe By : Sunset Magazine Serving Size : 1 Preparation Time :0:00 Categories : Breads Amount Measure Ingredient -- Preparation Method -------- ------------ -------------------------------- 3/4 cup water -- warmed 1 teaspoon sugar 1 package active dry yeast 1/2 teaspoon salt 1 Tablespoon butter or margarine -- melted 2 1/2 cups all-purpose flour Dutch Crunch Topping 2 teaspoons sugar 2 packages active dry yeast 1/4 teaspoon salt 6 Tablespoons white rice flour 1 teaspoon salad oil 1/3 cup water -- warm 1. Combine warm water and sugar in a bowl. Add yeast and stir briefly; let stand until bubbly ( About 10 minutes ). Add salt and butter. 2. Stir in 1 1/2 cups of the flour. To knead with a dough hook, add 1/2 cup more flour and beat on high speed until dough is springy and pulls away from sides of bowl ( about 8 minutes ), adding more flour, few tablespoons at a time, if dough is sticky. 3. Cover with plastic wrap and let rise in a warm place until doubled ( 45 to 60 minutes). Meanwhile, prepare Dutch Crunch Topping. 4. Punch dough down and knead briefly on a lightly floured board to release air. Shape into a loaf and place in a greased 4-by 8-inch loaf pan. Spread topping over dough. Let stand, uncovered, in a warm place until puffy ( 20 to 25 minutes ). 5. Bake in a 375 degrees F oven until deep golden brown ( 50 to 60 minutes ). Turn loaf out onto a rack and let cool. Makes 1 loaf. Dutch Crunch Topping In a large bowl stir together all the ingredients and cover and let rise in a warm place until double (35 to 40 minutes ). Stir well. If made ahead, cover and let stand for up to 15 minutes; stir before using. - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - NOTES : I made this bread without the Dutch Crunch Topping, and the bread it's self was just great. It's a light-textured loaf with a crisp crust. Great for sandwiches. Lou&Sally Eisenberg sparky@netgate.net ------------------------------ End of bread-bakers-digest V6 #72 ********************************* bread-bakers-digest Sunday, 25 February 1996 Volume 06 : Number 073 Today's Subjects: bibliography What a Relief! Yeast-free, sugar-free recipes X-mas Zoji with loud clank... Re: clay cooker #70 Re: bread-bakers-digest V6 #71 Cranberry-orange bread Tupperware Bread Storage Keepers Lefsa! Re: bread-bakers-digest V6 #72 Bosch Food Processor recipe request Burger Buns The Controversy Continues... Re: bread-bakers-digest V6 #72 looking for James Beard Zepher roll recipe sourdoough samples DAK Bread Machine Paddles ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Reggie Dwork Date: Sun, 25 Feb 1996 00:47:51 -0800 Subject: bibliography Hi everyone, I put a note into last week's bbd but it didn't get many responses so I thought I would try again. A list member will do a bibliography of all the books we like to use. Please send to . Please include the author, ISBN#, if it is a machine made, hand made, combo of different ways to make bread, mixer made etc. type of book. It would also be helpful to put in why you like this/these book/s. I am almost thru with the archiving of all the bbd's for the last 5+ years and hope to have them accessible soon. I would also like to have the bibliography available to everyone. Thanks, Reggie - -- Reggie Dwork | Om Mani Padme Hung reggie@reggie.com | Owner bread-bakers, eat-lf and otbf mailing lists ------------------------------ From: ephraim@stonewire.com (Ephraim Vishniac) Date: Sun, 18 Feb 1996 15:48:55 -0500 Subject: What a Relief! From: "R.C. Sagnella" Date: Wed, 14 Feb 96 21:43:23 EST ABM, however, does have on advantage that a reader passed on to me: if something goes wrong, you can always blame the machine. Actually, all my failures with a bread machine have been entirely my fault. Forgot the paddle, didn't seat the paddle, forgot one ingredient or another. Wait, there was one failure that wasn't my fault, but it wasn't the machine's fault either: the power went off in the middle of the night. ------------------------------ From: gourmet@mail.utexas.edu (Cindy) Date: Sun, 18 Feb 1996 16:14:10 -0500 Subject: Yeast-free, sugar-free recipes Bonnie Fulmer said: > My friend's husband has just been put on a special diet, >and he cannot eat anything with yeast or sugar (or vinegar, >peanuts, etc., etc., etc!) He prefers sandwiches for lunch, >and is getting really tired of matzoh and sourdough breads. >He has no restrictions on the types of flour he can eat, >though. Do you have any recipes for breads that do not >contain any yeast or sugar? Is this even possible? > Thanks for any recipes you can share! She may want to look at the book Breadtime Storeis, by Susan Jane Cheney. There's lots of good information in there on natural-rise breads and flat breads that she may find useful. I hope this helps. Cindy ------------------------------ From: KCHolz@aol.com Date: Mon, 19 Feb 1996 00:52:22 -0500 Subject: X-mas Zoji with loud clank... We got a Zoji from King Arthur Flour in early December, 1995. It makes a loud clanking noise during the kneading cycles. Just got notified by King Arthur that this is not normal and they are replacing our Zoji. It appears Zoji left out a part! So, if you got one last year and it makes a loud noise, call Zoji directly for a replacement. Cheers, Katherina kcholz@aol.com ------------------------------ From: bj29@mirage.skypoint.com (bjjan) Date: Sun, 18 Feb 96 21:25 CST Subject: Re: clay cooker #70 Doug Cutler asked about cooking in a Clay Cooker? Since I have 5 and one of them is a LaCloche, I just want to tell him he going to LOVE using it! I use mine in many different ways. The easiest is to sprinkle (heavily) a coating of flour on the bottom of your LaCloche. Place the dough (either by-hand dough or dough out of a bread machine) on the bottom. Cover it and let it rise about and hour and a half to two hours. You want it nice and high without touching the top of the LaCloche. Slash the top of the dough. Then place the covered LaCloche into a COLD oven. Turn the temperature to 450=B0 and let it bake for 45 minutes. That's ALL there is to it! ...Except a recipe is also important! I good French or Italian loaf will make you "dream" you are really eating the wonderful crusty bread in Europe! If you have a bread machine, there is an excellent recipe in The Bread Machine Magic Book of Helpful Hints called French Bread Extraordinaire. It calls for 3-1/2 Cups of unbleached white flour, 1-1/2 teaspoons Salt, 1-1/4 C. Water, 2 teaspoons of Red Star brand active dry yeast. Although it isn't in the recipe, I also add 1 Tablespoon of Vital Wheat Gluten to give the dough extra body. Bev in Mn (aka Claycooker @AOL and bjjan on the Net) ------------------------------ From: Blanche007@aol.com Date: Sun, 18 Feb 1996 21:38:58 -0500 Subject: Re: bread-bakers-digest V6 #71 To Emily who uses her Kitchenaid mixer draped wiotha towel when making bread: Emily - there is a vert in the back of the head of machine which will suck in flour (or other dry ingredinets). This will eventually burn out the motor - I used touse a towel - had to buy a new machine.... ------------------------------ From: Kathryn Whitver Date: Mon, 19 Feb 96 08:20:48 CST Subject: Cranberry-orange bread Hi all, I've throroughly enjoyed this list and learned a great deal. Thanks for sharing your expertise! Since this is my first posting, I'll introduce myself with my favorite special breadmaker recipe (this is an easy one and always gathers compliments): Cranberry-Orange Bread Basic white bread recipe for your breadmaker Replace the water with orange juice Add one extra tablespoon sugar Add 2/3 cup dried sweetened cranberries Add 1 tsp dried orange peel I use these proportions for a 1 1/2 lb loaf, so you may want to adjust for a smaller or larger loaf. It's a special treat for Thanksgiving or other holiday dinners. Or try it toasted with cream cheese for breakfast! Kathryn ------------------------------ From: Ina Bechhoefer Date: Mon, 19 Feb 1996 07:53:10 -0500 Subject: Tupperware Bread Storage Keepers Do the tupperware storage keepers keep the crust from getting soft--a problem with my current bread keeper. Also, is there a source where one can get the keeper without particpating in one of those "loathsome" Tupperware parties? Thanks ------------------------------ From: Roger Devine Date: Mon, 19 Feb 1996 09:02:46 -0500 (EST) Subject: Lefsa! This list is wonderful - thanks so much for making it available. My question for the group is this - As a good (part-)Norwegian boy, I have had occasional cravings for a norwegian flatbread called lefsa that my grandmother used to make. Does anyone have a lefsa recipe they can post? I have been baking by hand, and don't have a machine, so hand-method recipes would be preferred. Given that it is a flatbread, I imagine that there aren't machine recipes, though. - -Roger Devine Devine@echonyc.com ------------------------------ From: vegasjb@ix.netcom.com (John and Marcia Bean) Date: Mon, 19 Feb 1996 06:20:01 -0800 Subject: Re: bread-bakers-digest V6 #72 Hamburger Buns This is a small batch I use in my bread machine. Yeast 1 Pkg Bread Flour 3 1/2 cups Parmesan Cheese 1/3 cup Sugar 2 Tbls Salt 1 Tsp Milk 1/2 cup Water 1/2 cup Shortening 2 Tbls Egg 1( 1/4 cup ) Mix on manual setting, when completed divide into 8 pieces form into balls then place on greased cookie sheet. Flatten each ball into a 4" diameter. Cover; let rise in warm place 15 to 30 min.You can if you wish brush buns with beaten egg and sprinkle with additional parmesan cheese. Bake at 400 degree for 10 to 12 min. ------------------------------ From: vvsurbey@aahz.magic.mb.ca (Val Surbey) Date: Mon, 19 Feb 96 08:23 CST Subject: Bosch Food Processor Hi: My name is Val Surbey and I live in Winnipeg, Manitoba Canada. We have four boys (as you can in our signature) and I have used a Bosch food processor for the past 10 years. The machine is like a work horse, or the energizer bunny, it keeps going and going. I only use a basic recipe with Canola Oil and I throw in a handful of bran as well. I use about 2/3 white flour and 1/3 whole wheat flour. Does anyone have any recipes other than the basic one from the Bosch book I'm using for this machine? Thanks. Vince and Val Surbey Dad and Mom to Christopher 8,(FAE), Timothy 5,(Down Syndrome), Ryan 5,(Microcephalic and possibly FAE), Preston 4,(FAS) ------------------------------ From: Jane Pullin Date: Mon, 19 Feb 1996 09:40:26 -0500 Subject: recipe request I misplaced the recipe for port and blue cheese bread. If someone could kindly send it to me I would be very grateful. Thanks. ------------------------------ From: "Rob Ryerson" Date: Mon, 19 Feb 1996 08:34:17 PST Subject: Burger Buns I retrieved this from the Fat Free archive where I posted it in '94. Didn't know if Linda or Lois would post it, as noted it is from their book. But it is great! It may have been adjusted to eliminate oil and dairy. I've also done variations with molasses and honey for the sugar. Don't know how well they would keep, they never last long enough to find out. - -------------------------- I made these burger/weenie buns last night for dinner. They were great. I put them into my P/C cookbook, Micro Cookbook and did an export for the nutritional analysis. - --> Exported from Micro Cookbook V4 <-- Whole Wheat Burger & Weenie Buns Serves 8 Prep 2:00 Cook :15 Stand :15 Total 2:30 >From the Speciality Bread Section of Bread Machine Magic by Linda Rehberg & Lois Conway 1 cup water 1 each powdered egg substitute 2 cups all-purpose flour 1 cup whole wheat flour 3/4 teaspoon salt 1/4 cup frozen apple juice concentrate 1/4 cup sugar, (or fructose) 3 teaspoons yeast Place all ingredients in bread machine. Select dough cycle, and allow to complete. After machine dough cycle, remove from machine, and place on floured counter or dough board. Gently roll and shape into 12 inch rope. With a sharp knife, divide into 8 pieces for burger buns, or 12 pieces for weenie buns. Shape according to purpose, and place on sprayed baking sheet. Cover and allow to rise for 15 minutes until nearly doubled. Preheat oven to 400 deg. F. Bake for 12 to 15 minutes until golden brown. Remove from oven, and cool on racks. Slice to use. May be frozen for 3 to 4 weeks. Nutrition (per serving): 191 calories Saturated fat 0 g Total Fat 1 g (3% of calories) Protein 5 g (11% of calories) Carbohydrates 41 g (86% of calories) Cholesterol 1 mg Sodium 223 mg Fiber 0 g Iron 1 mg Vitamin A 2 IU Vitamin C 0 mg Alcohol 0 g Source: Bread Machine Magic Page(s): 155 Date Published: 1992 ISBN 0-312-06914-6 (paperback original) - --------------------------- P.S. For those of you who like to have cookbooks of recipes you've seen here, the 7 or 9 grain bread recipe recently posted was originally from Donna R. German's Bread Machine Cookbook IV. For my personal preferences, that was the best of her books, more whole grains. But it sits right next to my copy of Bread Machine Magic............. ------------------------------ From: "R.C. Sagnella" Date: Mon, 19 Feb 96 09:42:38 EST Subject: The Controversy Continues... I hope that no one on this list misunderstands my partiality to making bread "the old fashion way." I fully appreciate the convenience and practicality of bread machines. I am not being critical of those who prefer it. Are there many who make more than two loaves of bread at a time using the ABM? Ron ------------------------------ From: flash gordon md Date: Mon, 19 Feb 1996 09:29:58 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: bread-bakers-digest V6 #72 > In response to the question about whether to buy a 4.5 or 5 qt KitchenAid > mixer, definitely get the 5 qt model. when i was in the market for a mixer not long ago, i spoke to the folks at kitchen aide, specifically asking them how much stronger the motor in the 5 qt mixers were. they told me, to my astonishment, that the motors were *identical* in every way: that in fact the part number for *all* the mixers' motors was the same. in other words, they were interchangeable. so far, i've been happy with my 4.5 qt. mixer, which has never bogged down. of course, i found it used for $90, so i can't complain. i do admit that tilting the unit rather than lowering the bowl can make changing the attachments a little awkward, but i'm still enjoying using it. btw, i gave my old r2d2 unit away not long after getting the kitchen aide. however, now i'm thinking of getting a zoji, since i have less time to spend baking. oh well. ------------------------------ From: Bimini44@aol.com Date: Mon, 19 Feb 1996 11:10:53 -0500 Subject: looking for James Beard Zepher roll recipe A friend used to make wonderful 'zepher rolls' from her Beard on Bread book. Does anyone have it? I may not be saying the name right, but it was a very rich egg dough, made a fragrant golden roll, I could eat my weight in them! And, actually, the first successful hand-made bread recipe I tried was this one. Mine were good, but not as wonderful as this experienced baker produced. Would love to attempt again, now that I have a few 'secrets' under my belt! TIA martha And, to Neil in Guam,,, until you've 'accidentally' hatched out chicks in a basket on your counter, or exploded potatoes while baking them in the oven,, well, you get my drift, not all of us are pros around the kitchen!!! (voice of chicken-experience here) ------------------------------ From: Blanche007@aol.com Date: Mon, 19 Feb 1996 12:57:08 -0500 Subject: sourdoough samples Date: Mon, Feb 19, 1996 1:34 PM EDT From: Blanche007 Subj: re sour dough samples Date: Sun, Feb 18, 1996 10:53 PM EDT From: Blanche007 Subj: Re: bread-bakers-digest V6 #71 To: Blanche007 Note to all the folks who offered to try out my sourdough product: the samples were mailed this past week. I've already heard from a few people. We had over 100 people ask for samples (had to turn down more than 25 late comers). This offer turned out to be a fairly expensive and time consuming undertaking so, I would dearly appreciate your taking the time to try the stuff and let me know what you think. p.s. I put in a sample of the new dough relaxer as well and would love comment about that. For those of you who asked about ingredients - both products are made with real food - without any chemicals or preservatives. Both are Kosher as well. Lora Brody ------------------------------ From: Kerry Ogata Date: Mon, 19 Feb 1996 13:20:21 -0500 Subject: DAK Bread Machine Paddles A friend of mine asked me to post this. She has a DAK bread machine and has lost the paddle. She thinks that DAK is out of business, and doesn't know where to get a replacement paddle. Can anyone here help? (Sorry, but I don't know the model #). I thought I remembered hearing that someone bought out DAK's bread machine line, but I'm not sure. :) Thanks, Kerry ------------------------------ End of bread-bakers-digest V6 #73 ********************************* bread-bakers-digest Sunday, 25 February 1996 Volume 06 : Number 074 Today's Subjects: Bread pan sticking problem Pasta machine vs hand (long) Wheat Grinder Problems with Red Star Yeast Re: bread-bakers-digest V6 #71 Re: bread-bakers-digest V6 #71 Hint for Busy Folks! Pasta Mixes? Hops bread Kitchenaid vs. Cuisinart Sponge Bread and Cold Kitchens bread-bakers-digest V6 #71 Red Star Yeast Re: bread-bakers-digest V6 #71 bagels bread-bakers-digest V6 #72 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Deborah Kirwan Date: Wed, 21 Feb 1996 09:11:12 -0600 (CST) Subject: Bread pan sticking problem I got a bread machine for Christmas, and I just love it! I've made one to two loaves a week--only one dud. However, I'm having more and more trouble getting the bread out of the pan when it's done. I only use plastic implements in the pan; it doesn't look scratched. I use about a tablespoon of oil per loaf (1 lb) as most recipes call for. Is there something I can do to improve the non-stick qualities of the bread pan? I hesitate to try spraying Pam in the pan for fear of gunking up the mechanism that turns the mixing paddle. Any advice? Deb * "In this world there are only two tragedies. kirwan@creighton.edu * One is not getting what one wants, and the other * is getting it." Oscar Wilde ------------------------------ From: MJSpence@aol.com Date: Tue, 20 Feb 1996 21:08:46 -0500 Subject: Pasta Kenneth Sharp asked for a recipe for rice noodles for Asian cuisine and whole grain pastas. I'd be delighted if the group would consider extending its scope to include pastas. I have a Pasta Express machine, which I've enjoyed, even though I don't have the time to use it I'd like. It has without fail produced some lovely things when I have. Here's a rice noodle recipe from "The Ultimate Pasta Machine Cookbook," Tom LaCalamita, Simon & Schuster. "The following recipe can be extruded as thin as angel hair for such dishes as Cantonese Rice noodles with Beef or as wide as linguine for Thai Rice Noodles with Broccoli" Dry Ingredients: 1 3/4 cup bread flour sifted with 1 1/4 cups white rice flour. Liquid Ingredients: 3/4 cup water. Following the instructions in your owner's manual, prepare and set up the pasta machine with an extruder die to make the desired shape of pasta. . . . All ingredients must be at room temperature. Add the dry ingredients to the pasta machine mixing bowl. Switch the pasta machine on. Slowly pour the liquid ingredients through the feed tube. Mix for approximately 3 minutes, or until the dough appears to be coming together in soft, pea-sized crumbs. Following instructions begin to extrude dough, cutting off the first 2 to 3 inches to discard. As pasta begins to come out, gently move it away from machine and cut with a sharp paring knife or scissors at desired lengths. Place on a wire race or clean kitchen cloth. Sprinkle lightly with flour and gently toss with fingers so noodles do not stick together. Let sit for at least 30 minutes before cooking or store for later use." Although this if for a machine, I can't imagine that the same ingredients won't be fine for hand-made pasta. Mitch ------------------------------ From: Crystalle Haynes Date: Tue, 20 Feb 1996 23:51:07 -0800 (PST) Subject: machine vs hand (long) Boy, I'll bet someone is sorry that asked this! I have been following this thread with interest, and have hesitated offering my opinion. Although I agree with what many people have already said (I only go through one or two loaves a week, I am busy, etc), I don't think I've seen a post that reflects why *I* use a machine. So here goes. I grew up with a mom who baked bread by hand - ground her own flour, the whole 9 yards. She made awesome whole-wheat bread. However, it was a whole day - it seemed to take forever! Not only that, but it was always such a big production. Grind the flour, make the bread, knead, rise, punchdown, rise, etc. We had a small kitchen, so other kitchen activity tended to come to a stand-still. There was no other place in the house to let 5 loaves of bread rise, except in the kitchen. So we couldn't really cook or bake until the whole process was over. Anyway, it all seemed too much work. However, I did try my hand at making cinnamon braids and some other stuff, but consistently killed the yeast, or I couldn't get the ambient temperature warm enough for the dough to rise well. I gave up, and for years figured it was a culinary mystery to which I was never going to be privy. I really bummed me out, but I religiously avoided ANYTHING that contained yeast in it. Yeasr later, I bought a bread machine for my boyfriend, who really wanted one. To make a long story short, I dumped the boyfriend and kept the bread machine (he never used it anyway, but I did). I lucked onto the Bread Machine Magic cookbooks, and consistently turned out yummy bread (all the while chanting "Yeast is my friend"). I took the advice of the authors and watched the machine knead the dough, and started to learn how the dough should look and act. I overcame my fear of touching the dough (I thought I would kill the yeast but over-kneading it), and am almost ready to start TRYING to make a loaf or two by hand. The machine has held my hand and taught me that I am not a complete klutz and serial yeast-killer. Now, even if my hand-made bread flops, I know I can still do bread in the machine. I apologize for going on and on - I have nothing but admiration and awe for people who make bread by hand. It seems to me that it is truly an art, as well as an act of love (not to mention time! :). So, maybe I am not as artistic, but I feel privileged to be able to finally be able to make bread myself (with the help of my loveable machine, of course!). BTW, a loaf of 1.5 pound bread only takes 2 1/2 hours on my machine (my machine won't even DO 5 hours!). Thanks for listening! Crystalle crystall@po.eecs.berkeley.edu Berkeley, California (USA) ------------------------------ From: "S. Shimeall" Date: Wed, 21 Feb 1996 14:08:26 -0800 (PST) Subject: Wheat Grinder I would like to purchase a wheat grinder and was hoping for your help. Is Magic Mill the only kind of wheat grinder, or is it just the best? What sources are there (phone numbers, addresses?) for purchasing a grinder? Thanks so much! Priscilla North Bend, WA stephans@u.washington.edu ------------------------------ From: Alan Robert Giblin Date: Tue, 20 Feb 1996 17:56:24 -0800 (PST) Subject: Problems with Red Star Yeast I bought some Red Star yeast at the store because that was all they had. I have made 4 loaves of bread with it and they have all risen badly. I just called Red Star and did the test they gave me and it turned out perfect. It was 1/2 cup very warm water, 1 teaspoon sugar and 2 1/4 teaspoons (1 packet) yeast. Let it sit for 10 minutes. If it rises to the 1 cup mark, the yeast is fine. Any ideas why this jar of yeast won't rise my bread when it passes the test? I used the last jar I had ( the brand with the yellow label) with this bag of flour and it worked just like it should. Kelly ------------------------------ From: LoisO43779@aol.com Date: Mon, 19 Feb 1996 14:40:28 -0500 Subject: Re: bread-bakers-digest V6 #71 Re: adding whole wheat berries to your breads. I am not a bread machine user, but a word of warning about using whole wheat berries. No matter how long you soak them or how soft they get, the ones that end up on the outside surface of your baked bread will again be very hard. Don't break a tooth. I had the experience (didn't break a tooth) but had some mighty tough chewing. ------------------------------ From: BillyFish@aol.com Date: Tue, 20 Feb 1996 13:49:17 -0500 Subject: Re: bread-bakers-digest V6 #71 I guess I am just not atuned to some of the nomenclature used in bread making. Just what is "sponge?" How does it differ from ordinary dough? Is sourdough sponge something different? I hate to be so ignorant on the subject, but I don't want to be to stupid to ask. William Buchman ------------------------------ From: bj29@mirage.skypoint.com (bjjan) Date: Mon, 19 Feb 96 21:53 CST Subject: Hint for Busy Folks! To save time....... Just line up about 5 or 6 ZIP-LOCK type bags on the counter. On the outiside of each bag write the name of ONE of your Favorite Breads. Also write the amount of water and yeast required for that recipe. Fill each baag with the amount of flour, salt, etc. required. Zip the bag shut and pop in your refrigerator or freezer. ....when you are in a rush to make bread, just open a bag, dump the contents into your bread machine, add the water and yeast....set the machine and push start! What could be easier, with less mess?? (It is better is you can plan a bit ahead so you can warm up the flour....like take a bag out the night before you want to use it.... or leave one on the counter and the rest in the freezer) When you get organized, you can have many different kinds on hand....a little variety? ---if the recipe contains oil or honey, no problem, just place it in the middle of the flour along with the other ingredients. Bev in Mn (aka ClayCooker) ------------------------------ From: DIANAR@delphi.com Date: Tue, 20 Feb 1996 21:47:25 -0500 (EST) Subject: Pasta Mixes? Hi all, I enjoy this list so much and have a question. I recently got a couple of boxes of Popeil's Pasta Mixes (5-1 lb. packs per box)at Sam's for only 1.99 a box! I will use them in the pasta maker, but wonder if they can be used for the bread machine, and if so, what enhancers might be necessary? The mixes are labeled "fancy durum wheat" as the main ingredient, with assorted seasonings. Thanks! Diana ------------------------------ From: Kay Klier Date: Tue, 20 Feb 1996 12:54:41 -0800 (PST) Subject: Hops bread While enjoying some excellent breads in restaurants this weekend, we started talking about favorite breads. Steve mentioned "hops bread" a bread made by lots of bakeries in Trinidad, where he grew up. Says he thinks it doesn't have anything to do with the plant hops (used for beer flavoring)-- it was a small, round loaf of rather crusty white bread, perhaps 6" in diameter. Seems to have some relationship to french or italian yeast breads, but has a finer grain than most. Anyone have a recipe? Or a method? Or should I just tell him he needs to send me down to the islands to learn how properly? ;-) - ---- Kay Klier klier@fern.com ------------------------------ From: Cathi Boronkay Date: Tue, 20 Feb 1996 11:53:46 -0800 (PST) Subject: Kitchenaid vs. Cuisinart I am now trying to decide between these two machines. I guess the question is, how do they compare in what else they can do. Anyone have an opinion on overall how useful these are? How did you decide which one to buy? Thanks, Cathi ------------------------------ From: Veronica Callinan Date: Mon, 19 Feb 1996 21:45:58 -0500 Subject: Sponge Bread and Cold Kitchens Hello all! I'm new to the list - from Toronto, Ontario, Canada. I tried baking bread years ago, and the results were beautiful, golden door stoppers. Completely inedible! I started using a breadmaker, 3 or 4 years ago, and the results have been fabulous! My husband loves homemade bread. I sometimes make the dough in the machine, then form and bake it in the oven. Regardless of where the baking is done - the loaves are eaten quickly and completely! I want to thank Bev in MN for your suggestion for timed dough. Your explanation wasn't confusing at all. To Pat Hewitt, I'd be very interested in your light whole wheat bread recipe. 1) The discussion on sponge bread has really pricked my interest. Kay Klier, wrote: "basically, you just put half the flour (or so -- it should be about like brownie batter in consistency) in the first rise, allow the gluten to develop, stir the sponge down, and add the rest of the flour for the second rise." In my breadmaker, adding flour after the knead cycle won't mix the ingredients properly. The second rise is preceded by a very minimal knead - 1 or 2 turns of the paddle at most. Are you talking about machine baking, or do you mean by hand? 2) Comments on gluten flour. The temperature in our kitchen varies greatly, from summer to winter. Timed bread didn't used to rise in winter, or on very hot summer nights. We turn the heat down at night in winter, so the kitchen gets chilly. Then I started adding gluten flour to the mix. By mixing 1/4 cup gluten flour to 1 cup all-purpose, the bread rises every time. So the mix is 20% gluten flour. I hope this helps others who have the same problem. Keep on baking!!!vc ------------------------------ From: BreadMagician@prodigy.com (MRS LINDA L REHBERG) Date: Wed, 21 Feb 1996 00:42:46 EST Subject: bread-bakers-digest V6 #71 To Bonnie: You requested yeast-free, sugar-free recipes. Here's one from a very good book called EASY BREAD MAKING FOR SPECIAL DIETS by Nicolette Dumke. It's made on the Quick Bread cycle of a bread machine but I'm sure you could also adapt it for the oven: NO YEAST WHITE BREAD 3 cups all-purpose flour 3 tsp baking powder 1/2 tsp salt 1/4 cup oil 1 1/4 cups water There are several yeast free recipes in the book. I think Barnes & Noble is now carrying it. You might also find it in your library. To Marta: Thanks for sharing the web site addresses. Here are a couple more: ww.fatfree.com/recipes/breads- machine/ and www.webcom.com/~stannet/bread/ To Emily: The makers of vital wheat gluten usually recommend 1 1/2 tsp per cup of flour for whole grain breads. We find that works well with the white breads on those rare occasions when it's needed but we double that amount for whole grain breads. To Reeva: You can soak wheat and rye berries overnight or place 1 cup berries in 3 cups of boiling water, cover, reduce heat, and simmer for 1 hour. (If you like your berries with a little more crunch to them, use 2:1 water/berries and simmer just 1/2 hour) You might want to decrease the liquid in your recipe by 1/8 - 1/4 cup and watch the dough as it kneads. If it appears dry and stiff, add more liquid 1 T at a time till a smooth ball of dough forms that is slightly tacky to the touch. Linda Rehberg, co-author BREAD MACHINE MAGIC and BMM BOOK OF HELPFUL HINTS ------------------------------ From: David Kingsley Date: Tue, 20 Feb 1996 09:48:48 -0500 Subject: Red Star Yeast Hello! We have been a subscribers for only a short time on this digest and have realized that there are many who enjoy the beaking of bread both by hand and with machines. I have gained some knowledge (in reading the posts here) that are difficult to come by anywhere else. My dad who is going on 92 years of age, bakes about two loaves a week in his Welbilt. He really enjoys this pastime and his output is enjoyed by everyone who happens to be lucky enough to sample his breads. We have been trying to find the address for Red Star yeast products. The local stores in the area don't always carry it. The information that we have shows that the company is located in Wisconsin. Would any of you avid baking fans kindly inform us as to where we can write to so that we can mail order it? >From snowy Massachusetts.......David K. davidk@pcix.com ------------------------------ From: BillyFish@aol.com Date: Tue, 20 Feb 1996 20:26:43 -0500 Subject: Re: bread-bakers-digest V6 #71 I guess I am just not atuned to some of the nomenclature used in bread making. Just what is "sponge?" How does it differ from ordinary dough? Is sourdough sponge something different? I hate to be so ignorant on the subject, but I don't want to be to stupid to ask. William Buchman ------------------------------ From: Gerard_Mcmahon@ftdetrck-ccmail.army.mil Date: Wed, 21 Feb 96 16:01:49 EST Subject: bagels Hi All, As the title of the books says these really are the best. Pretty simple too. Have fun, Gerry * Exported from MasterCook II * Apricot bagel Recipe By : The Best Bagels are made at home Dona Z. Meilach Serving Size : 15 Preparation Time :0:00 Categories : Bagels Machine Yeast Amount Measure Ingredient -- Preparation Method - -------- ------------ -------------------------------- 1 1/8 cups water 2 teaspoons orange extract -- optional 1 tablespoon olive oil 2 tablespoons malt powder -- or honey / sugar 1 teaspoon salt 3 1/3 cups bread flour 1 tablespoon wheat gluten -- optional 2 teaspoons yeast 3/4 cup dried apricots -- diced Place ingredients in the bread machine in the order listed. Use the dough setting. Add the apricots 5 minutes before the end of the kneading phase or work into the dough before shaping. If you don't have a dough setting stop the machine after the rises. Prepare the baking sheets or use nonstick sheets. Remove dough from the machine, punch it down, and roll it out into a rectangle about 14 x 18. Divide into equal pieces and shape into bagel form or use a cutter. Place the bagels on the sheets and let them rise again. I put them in the oven to provide a draft free location. This rise can be anywhere from 20 minutes to 4 hours depending on what else is going on in your life. Fill a 4 to 6 qt soup pot with water 3 to 4 " deep. You can add 2 T of malt syrup, honey, sugar or non-diastatic malt powder. Get the water to boiling. Preheat the oven to 400. Drop the bagels one at a time into the boiling water. Boil only 3 or 4 at a time so they don't crowd. Simmer each side for a minute and return to the baking sheet. Add glazes or toppings as desired. Bake just below the middle of a preheated 400 degree oven. The book calls for 20 to 25 minutes. I usually start at 15 minutes for the 1st sheet and less for the second. These are best eaten while they are still warm. They can be frozen - you may want to slice them first so you can defost them in the toaster. - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Serving Ideas : for peach bagels sub dried peaches for the apricots NOTES : I use orange oil instead of the orange extract. These are really excellent. * Exported from MasterCook II * Banana Nut Wheat bagel Recipe By : Serving Size : 15 Preparation Time :0:00 Categories : Bagels Machine Yeast Amount Measure Ingredient -- Preparation Method - -------- ------------ -------------------------------- 1 cup water 1 banana 1 tablespoon olive oil 2 tablespoons malt powder 1/4 cup cornmeal 1 cup wheat flour, whole-grain 2 1/3 cups bread flour 1 tablespoon wheat gluten 2 1/2 teaspoons yeast 3/4 cup walnuts - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - * Exported from MasterCook II * Hawaiian bagels Recipe By : The Best Bagels are made at home Dona Z. Meilach Serving Size : 15 Preparation Time :0:00 Categories : Bagels Machine Yeast Amount Measure Ingredient -- Preparation Method - -------- ------------ -------------------------------- 1 1/8 cups water 1 teaspoon coconut extract -- optional 1 tablespoon olive oil 2 tablespoons malt powder -- or honey / sugar 1 teaspoon salt 3 1/3 cups bread flour 1 tablespoon wheat gluten -- optional 2 teaspoons yeast 1/2 cup dried pineapple -- diced 5/8 cup dried coconut -- shredded or flaked Place ingredients in the bread machine in the order listed. Add the pineapple and coconut 5 minutes before the end of the Kneading phase or work into the dough before shaping. Use the dough setting. Or stop the machine after the rises. Prepare the baking sheets or use nonstick sheets. Remove dough from the machine, punch it down, and roll it out into a rectangle about 14 x 18. Divide into equal pieces and shape into bagel form or use a cutter. Place the bagels on the sheets and let them rise again. I put them in the oven to provide a draft free location. This rise can be anywhere from 20 minutes to 4 hours depending on what else is going on in your life. Fill a 4 to 6 qt soup pot with water 3 to 4 " deep. You can add 2 T of malt syrup, honey, sugar or non-diastatic malt powder. Get the water to boiling. Preheat the oven to 400. Drop the bagels one at a time into the boiling water. Boil only 3 or 4 at a time so they don't crowd. Simmer each side for a minute and return to the baking sheet. Add glazes or toppings as desired. Bake just below the middle of a preheated 400 degree oven. The book calls for 20 to 25 minutes. I usually start at 15 minutes for the 1st sheet and less for the second. These are best eaten while they are still warm. They can be frozen - you may want to slice them first so you can defost them in the toaster. - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - NOTES : These are really excellent. ------------------------------ From: BreadMagician@prodigy.com (MRS LINDA L REHBERG) Date: Wed, 21 Feb 1996 01:26:03 EST Subject: bread-bakers-digest V6 #72 To Lorna: You asked why it takes longer for sweet, rich bread doughs to rise. Here's a very non-chemical answer: Compare it to you sitting down to a moderate meal, say a stir-fry and rice dinner compared to a 12- course banquet with lots of rich, heavy goodies for dessert. Getting up from the table after the latter meal, the best way to describe how you would feel is sluggish. That's basically what happens to those little yeasties, too. To Debbie: Here's our favorite hamburger bun recipe: Title: WHOLE-WHEAT HAMBURGER AND HOT DOG BUNS Keywords: BREADS, BREAD MACHINE, BREAD MACHINE MAGIC These are definitely five-star hamburger buns. You'll never go back to the store-bought version once you've tried these. 1 1/2-pound 1-pound 1 cup water 5/8 cup water 1 egg 1 egg 2 cups all-purpose or 1 1/3 cups all-purpose or unbleached flour unbleached flour 1 cup whole-wheat flour 2/3 cup whole-wheat flour 3/4 teaspoon salt 1/2 teaspoon salt 1/4 cup shortening 3 tablespoons shortening 1/4 cup sugar 3 tablespoons sugar 3 teaspoons RED STAR 3 teaspoons RED STAR active dry yeast active dry yeast Place all ingredients in bread pan, select "dough" setting, and press "start". Once dough has risen long enough, the machine will beep. Turn off bread machine, remove bread pan, and turn out dough onto a floured counter top or cutting board. Gently roll and shape the dough into a 12-inch rope. For 1 1/2-pound: With a sharp knife, divide dough into 8 pieces for hamburger buns or 12 pieces for hot dog buns. For 1-pound: With a sharp knife, divide dough into 6 pieces for hamburger buns or 8 pieces for hot dog buns. Grease a cookie sheet. Roll pieces of dough into balls and flatten for hamburger buns or shape into 6-inch long rolls for hot dog buns. Place on prepared cookie sheet. Cover and let rise in warm oven 10 to 15 minutes until almost doubled. (Hint: To warm up oven slightly, turn oven on "warm" for two minutes, then turn it off, place covered dough in oven to rise.) Preheat oven to 400~F. Bake 12 to 15 minutes until golden brown. Remove from oven and cool on racks. When ready to use, split buns in half horizontally. These will keep in a plastic bag in the freezer for 3 to 4 weeks. 1 1/2-pound yields 8 hamburger or 12 hot dog buns 1-pound yields 6 hamburger or 8 hot dog buns From: "Bread Machine Magic" by Linda Rehberg, Lois Conway ------------------------------ End of bread-bakers-digest V6 #74 ********************************* [THERE WAS NO ISSUE # 75 IT WAS SACRIFICED TO MAJORDOMO SO IT WAS REPLACED BY # 76] ********************************* bread-bakers-digest Wednesday, 28 February 1996 Volume 06 : Number 076 Today's Subjects: Asiago Cheese Bread Re: vegan bread (no eggs, no dairy) Homestyle brick ovens -- information requested hochey pucks or rolls? Re: ABM vs. hand method Lost Zoji book tortillas Round loaves Australian bread, known as Damper COuldn't get through... ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: bbriscoe@infolink.morris.mn.us (Bonnie Briscoe) Date: Wed, 21 Feb 1996 23:47:12 -0600 Subject: Asiago Cheese Bread Asiago Cheese Bread 8 ounces water 1 large egg 1 1/4 teaspoons salt 1 tablespoon sugar 3 ounces finely shredded Asiago cheese (1 cup lightly packed) 1 ounce shredded Romano or Parmesan (generous 1/3 cup) 1/2 cup yellow cornmeal 2 3/4 cups bread flour or unbleached flour 2 teaspoons active dry yeast Place all ingredients in pan of bread machine in order listed, or in the order recommended for your machine. Set controls for Basic bread with medium crust and start machine. Makes one 1 1/2-pound loaf. I created this bread in response to a recent request on this list, and also because I wanted to make a cheese bread using some of the excellent Asiago cheese that we sell at our food co-op. This bread has an *absolutely wonderful* aroma while it's baking. I've made it twice and it has already become my husband's new all-time favorite bread. It's definitely worth the extra effort to use freshly grated cheeses. The cornmeal adds some body and helps make a crisper crust, but if you can't eat corn, leave it out and add more flour (start with 1/4 cup flour and add more if needed). Enjoy! Bonnie Briscoe ===================================================================== Bonnie Briscoe - bbriscoe@infolink.morris.mn.us Freelance writing, editing, desktop publishing * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * Language is all that separates us from the lower animals-- and from the bureaucrats. ===================================================================== ------------------------------ From: "Alison Hendon" Date: Wed, 21 Feb 1996 20:17:49 -0500 Subject: Re: vegan bread (no eggs, no dairy) To the requestor for vegan bread recipes: I too make non-dairy, no egg breads because of my partner's allergies. In fact, using the bread machine (I have tendinitis) means that I'm sure about all the ingredients. I use Ener-G powdered egg replacer, reconstituted, and powdered soy milk. Sometimes I use liquid soy milk but I don't have it on hand all the time. I use Fleischmann's unsalted margarine because it's lactose free. You have to watch out for that whey!! My favorite recipe is from Bread Machine Magic by Linda Rehberg & Lois Conway. Adapted for vegans (and allergic people), it reads like this: Linda's Easy Potato Bread (1 1/2 lb. loaf) 3 c. bread flour 1/4 c. instant potato flakes 1 1/2 t. salt 1 1/2 T. sugar 3 heaping T. powdered soy milk 1 1/2 t. margarine 2 t. yeast 3/4 c. water plus 3/8 cup water (1 c. plus 2 T. water) plus more water for Welbilt/Dak (3 T?) Bake on light crust. I hope it was ok to post this. In general I just substitute the soy milk powder for milk. I've also made the Basic Sweet Roll dough very successfully (great Jim's Cinnamon Rolls!). Linda & Lois's other book (whose name I don't have quite right), it's something like Bread Machine Magic Hints and was just reissued with even more hints, talks about substitutions for allergies, special diets, etc. Alison Hendon Alison Hendon ahendon@amanda.dorsai.org "Though my soul may set in darkness, It will rise in perfect light, I have loved the stars too fondly To be fearful of the night...." ------------------------------ From: "Angie Klidzejs" Date: Thu, 22 Feb 96 13:22:25 CDT Subject: Homestyle brick ovens -- information requested Hello fellow bakers: As I've learned more and more about bread, I've found that I'm becoming more and more interested in reducing the baking process to its most rudimentary forms. Four years ago I was thoroughly incapable of baking bread from scratch -- I ended up with grain-based equivalents of concrete blocks. Then I got a bread machine, which served as "training wheels" (as baker and cookbook author Dan Leader would describe it). I've graduated to using a KitchenAid mixer for making dough, and using a grain mill to grind my own flour, and am presently quite content with them. However, I'm interested in more than my electric oven can do for my breads. Does anyone on this list have experience with, or knowledge of, baking bread in brick ovens? I don't mean the commerical variety. I'm seeking information on building and using homestyle and homesize brick or stone ovens. Is this something a person can build and keep out in the yard? How is it constructed? How is it used? Where can I find technical plans and information? I destroy baking stones pretty easily and don't want to invest in more of them. I think that clay flower-pot saucers may be okay, but their use is limited. (My house isn't air-conditioned, and baking indoors during the summer is out of the question.) I would appreciate any and all information that people can suggest. Thank you. Angie Klidzejs Internet: a-klid@maroon.tc.umn.edu Accountant Department of Horticultural Science University of Minnesota 305 Alderman Hall 1970 Folwell Avenue Telephone: (612) 624-3795 Saint Paul, MN 55108 U.S.A. Fax: (612) 624-4941 ------------------------------ From: Susan Petusky Date: Fri, 23 Feb 1996 11:15:33 -0500 Subject: hochey pucks or rolls? Hi all. I'm coming out of lurkdom to ask a silly question-but I'm genuinely serious. Is it possible that my body gives off something that will make bread unable to rise? The reason I ask is I have a bread machine that makes great bread as long as I don't touch the dough. This includes checking the ball when I'm going to leave it in the machine to bake. My rolls are horrible and any loaf I've tried is sucky ,too. I have the same problem with cookies too. They are supposed to be soft and chewy but they are hard and crunchy. Also, if a plant even sees me walk by it imediately dies. (Slight exaggeration.). Really, if I touch it it is not long for this world. I really want to make those luscious kaiser rolls like you can buy in a deli. Does anyone know how to make these? I'm gonna keep on trying all your suggestions. Maybe I can convince my husband to do the dough handling-hmmm < YO, HONEY.... Thanks Susan ------------------------------ From: Deborah Kirwan Date: Fri, 23 Feb 1996 13:24:09 -0600 (CST) Subject: Re: ABM vs. hand method "My question is, where is the advantage in using a bread machine?" To add my $.02: For years before I worked outside the home, I made all my family's bread. I loved to make bread. I always argued that it wasn't hard at all, and in fact didn't even take that much time. Then I started working outside the home. For the last 15 years or so, I have hardly ever made bread. True, it doesn't take much time actually to make the bread, *but* you have to be ready for the next step when the bread is ready. This means you have to be available when the dough needs to be punched down, available when it needs to be shaped to go into the bread pan, available to turn on the oven when it has finished rising, available to take it out of the oven when done. The entire process takes several hours. It just never seemed to fit into my busy schedule. Now I have a bread machine. I cannot believe how wonderful it is. I make bread a couple times a week. In five minutes I can put the ingredients into the bread pan. I then set the machine for the time I want the bread to be ready. I can go to work, go to bed, go out to the store or to a meeting. I have nothing else to do but eat the bread when it's ready! As someone else mentioned, to me it's also an advantage that I only get one loaf at a time (in fact, I purposely bought a machine that only makes a small loaf). There are only two of us to eat it, and I prefer my bread fresh. So while I understand the therapeutic value of making bread by hand, I wouldn't give up my bread machine. Without it, we'd be back to having no home-baked bread at all. Deb * "In this world there are only two tragedies. kirwan@creighton.edu * One is not getting what one wants, and the other * is getting it." Oscar Wilde ------------------------------ From: "Molison, Ann" Date: Fri, 23 Feb 1996 11:50:58 -0800 Subject: Lost Zoji book Hi bread bakers. I received a Zoji (15) this Christmas from my husband. (He didn't know about the order by phone and thus paid dearly for it.) Last weekend, after using my instruction manual which gives recipes, I put it down and fear I must have done so on top of the Sunday paper and now it is gone. Does any one have a suggestion as to how I could replace it? I love many of the recipes in it and have found they are as reliable as any I have found in books I have borrowed or taken out of the library. Thanks to the wonderful contributors to this list, I have picked up a few recipes and tried them with good and often great success. One problem - however. Every time I use molasses my breads don't raise! They are half their size and awful. The molasses I have is dark and I think the brand is Bear Rabbit (or something like that). (I have never been into brand names and can't remember one from another.) As I am new to bread making - I follow the recipes to the nine and always measure carefully. Does anyone have any thoughts or suggestions. Thanks. Ann Molison Ames, IA 50014 ---------- ------------------------------ From: jguevara@spin.com.mx (Jenka Guevara) Date: Fri, 23 Feb 1996 18:57:02 -0600 (CST) Subject: tortillas About flour tortillas. Here in Mexico the only ones I know have lard. But ... I have started making pita bread, as I stated STARTED I have made some changes, and what I have now is: I use my breadmaker to make the dough of normal bread, more whole wheat than plain flour then I use some extra white flour to make small balls, which later I flatten out with a rolling pin (?) then comes the trick, for I have tried various ways, but last night I put them in the oven, a recipe I had said 3 mins each side, no way the first side was like 10 mins, it is till they blow up (more or less nicely) and then 3 mins the other side. What came out was not real flour tortillas, but was very good, first warm they were good, and now cold they are nice and crispy. My husband really enjoyed them. For the dough I used: (more or less on the quantities) 1 cup white flour 2 cups whole wheat 1 teaspoon yeast 1 cup sour dough 1 tablespoon honey 1 cup water and then watch it if you need more water or more flour By the way I use these same things and quantities to make my bread. In the bread I add various things, for instance caraway seeds, or garlic, or raisins, whatever I feel like The bread always comes out good. So this is my always recipe for bread or dough. Good luck if you try it Jenka PS As you can see my bread contains no salt or oil in any kind ********************************* Jenka Guevara American School Foundation Mexico City jguevara@spin.com.mx ------------------------------ From: "The Old Bean" Date: Fri, 23 Feb 1996 18:12:15 -8pst Subject: Round loaves Perhaps someone has struggled with the problem of flat loaves also. When I go to make a round loaf of bread it tends to spread out more than rise up. I end up with a loaf 3 inches tall and 10 inches or more across. Slightly reducing the liquid hasn't helped any. I have noticed that the bakery at our local grocery store makes loaves of sourdough that are almost round! Would that I could make these nice round loaves.... If anyone has some tips please let me know... Thanks, - -Rob- ------------------------------ From: MikeMayo@eworld.com Date: Sat, 24 Feb 1996 10:26:59 -0800 Subject: Australian bread, known as Damper In my 8-year-old son's class at elementary school each kid gets to bring in, when it is their assigned week to do so, a sample of bread from some specific region of the world, preferably with some explanation. Being three parts New Zealander myself, and since we visited Australia and N.Z. last year, I thought it would be good to do bread from that region. While browsing the Web I came across a Perth (Australia) restaurant, with an email address, so wrote to them explaining the problem and asking if they could send me a recipe for Damper, which is the name given to a variety of bread cooked by outback travellers in the ashes of a camp fire. The name derives from the word "damper" meaning something that satisfies appetite, as in a snack. Here's Terry's response to that email I sent..... (The bread I made using the DAMPER 1 recipe, using Wicked Pete's Ale, and whole wheat flour with some baking powder mixed in, tasted really good) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ - -------------- From: terry@netfx.com.au (Terry Lewis) To: MikeMayo@eworld.com DAMPER 1 provided by Craig - executive chef at Danekas Cafe Restaurant. ( in Perth, Australia ) Ingredients: 2 cups self raising flour pinch salt 1 teaspoon sugar approx. 1/2 cup water or beer Method: Sift flour, salt and sugar; mix in enough water (or beer) until a dough forms; knead 5-10 minutes; mould into round form; score across top of dough with a sharp knife; dust with a little flour and bake in a hot (180 C) until golden. DAMPER 2 bushies recipe! Take one bag of flour and one can of beer, mix thoroughly and bake until done! Hope the damper turns out right and the kids enjoy this little touch of Oz! :-) Cheers Terry Terry Lewis NetFX Internet Services - ------------------------------------------------------- ( Terry wrote, later, that the recipe is said to work only with Australian beer! ) - ------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ From: CHALON@VENUS.TWU.EDU (Grace Chalon) Date: Tue, 20 Feb 1996 12:02:07 -0800 Subject: COuldn't get through... Hi Joan, I read your note about not being able to get bulk yeast at Sam's. I live in Denton, and USED TO work in Las Colinas, so I shopped at the Sam's on Northwest Highway. They always had yeast. Last week, my neighbor was heading to Sam's in Lewisville, and asked if I needed anything. (We sometimes split large packages of things.) I asked her to look for yeast. She said there were only 3 left on the shelf; she bought one for us to split. 2 pounds (2 packages, each a pound) cost around $3.60. - - Grace Chalon ------------------------------ End of bread-bakers-digest V6 #76 ********************************* bread-bakers-digest Saturday, 2 March 1996 Volume 06 : Number 077 Today's Subjects: Admin Notes Re: Tupperware Bread Storage Keepers Re: bread-bakers-digest V6 #73 Re:Port & Blue Cheese Bread Re: bread-bakers-digest V6 #74 Lora Brody's Sourdough Re: bread-bakers-digest V6 #73 Web Bread sites Re:Kitchenaid vs. Cuisinart Re: bread-bakers-digest V6 #73 Red Star Yeast Feb.5 inquiry about potato rolls DAK paddle pita bread bread-bakers-digest V6 #73 Texture improvement for corn bread. Re: bread-bakers-digest V6 #74 nuggethead of the week award Asiago Cheese Bread Homestyle brick ovens -- information requested Tupperware Bread Storage Keepers Red Star Yeast RE: bread-bakers-digest V6 #74 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Reggie Dwork Date: Sat, 02 Mar 1996 00:49:58 -0800 Subject: Admin Notes Hi everyone, We received 11 wonderful posts on the Zephyr Buns by James Beard...we decided to save some space in the digest and eliminated 9 of them. We left 2 in that were in different formats so if you have recipe software you can (hopefully) import them into what you are using. Also, last weekend we put out 3 issues of the digest...well, we sent 3 issues in to make up the digest and only 2 actually got sent out over the weekend (#'s 73 & 74). We found out later in the week that the 3rd issue didn't get sent out. So we re-sent it and because majordomo ate the original #75 the re-send was numbered 76. So, there is no #75...sorry if this creates a problem for anyone. Thanks to everyone who sent in their favorite books. We hope to start the compiling of these soon. If you have any more to send in please feel free to do so...it is never too late. Thanks, Reggie & Jeff - -- Reggie & Jeff Dwork Owners, bread-bakers, eat-lf, otbf (OverTheBackFence) Mailing Lists For info write or ------------------------------ From: cmathew@iadfw.net (Craig & Joan Mathew) Date: Sun, 25 Feb 1996 05:48:23 -0600 (CST) Subject: Re: Tupperware Bread Storage Keepers >Date: Mon, 19 Feb 1996 07:53:10 -0500 >Subject: Tupperware Bread Storage Keepers > >Also, is there a source where one can get the keeper without particpating in >one of those "loathsome" Tupperware parties? Yes. The word is "Rubbermaid"... :) You can get these keepers at many discount stores, like Target, K-Mart, Venture, even supermarkets... In my area these products often go on sale...such as a "50% off ALL Rubbermaid products" !! I use a lot of Rubbermaid in my house...for all kinds of food storage, bread storage, holding nuts, bolts, pencils, pens, thumb tacks, paper clips, you-name-it... very cheap when you get them on sale like this... Joan ------------------------------ From: bj29@mirage.skypoint.com (bjjan) Date: Sun, 25 Feb 96 07:15 CST Subject: Re: bread-bakers-digest V6 #73 Roger Devine asked for a Lefse recipe! I taught Lefse Making for years, but my very favorite of all was this one: **STATE FAIR Winning LEFSE** 8 Cups Russet POTATOES 1/2 Cup HEAVY CREAM 8 Tbls OLEO or BUTTER 1 Tbls SALT 1 Tbls SUGAR (about) 3-1/2 Cups FLOUR* add 1 C/see below Rice POTATOES while hot. Add CREAM, melted BUTTER, SALT, and SUGAR. Cool to room temperature. Refrig overnight Add 1 C.* Flour to 1/2 the Potato mixture Knead together well. After rolling/baking 1st half, Do the same to the saved 2nd half Add 1* Cup of the FLOUR to it Use remaining* FLOUR for rolling lefse. Don't use too much FLOUR for rolling. Roll mixture into thin pieces Bake on Lefse Grill **I think the "sugar" in the recipe is what makes it successful. I seems to be the one ingredient that isn't found in a hundred other similar lefse recipes. It rolls like a dream... As you know it isn't easy to roll up "mashed potatoes" without having them fall apart! If you want other Lefse recipes?? Bev in Mn ------------------------------ From: bj29@mirage.skypoint.com (bjjan) Date: Sun, 25 Feb 96 07:26 CST Subject: Re:Port & Blue Cheese Bread Jane Pullin asked for a Port and Blue Cheese Bread Recipe. I think that one is found in the Electric Bread Book however my cookbooks are in "never-never" land at the moment. We are moving so all my books are packed in boxes and are "someplace"?? Here's a 1# recipe I had in my Mega collection that might due until someone else can find the 1-1/2# recipe for her....Bev in Mn BLUE CHEESE AND PORT BREAD - 1# loaf size 2/3 c Water 2 c White bread flour 1 tb Sugar 1 ts Salt 2 ts Butter 2 tb Port red wine 1/4 c Blue cheese 1/4 c Coursley chopped walnuts 2 1/2 tb Applesauce 1 1/2 ts Yeast (active Dry) ------------------------------ From: bj29@mirage.skypoint.com (bjjan) Date: Sun, 25 Feb 96 07:49 CST Subject: Re: bread-bakers-digest V6 #74 David K wanted the address for Red Star Yeast. In the back of the Bread Machine Magic book of Helpful hints it lists: Universal Foods Corporation 433 East Michigan Street P.O. Box 737 Milwaukee, WI 93201 phone: 1-800-445-4746 sells: Red Star Active Dry Yeast, Quick Rise Yeast, and Instant Yeast in bulk packages! Bev in Mn ------------------------------ From: wmathews@falcon.liunet.edu Date: Sun, 25 Feb 1996 09:37:44 +22311408 (EST) Subject: Lora Brody's Sourdough I tried Lora Brody's sourdough bread the day I received her generous gift. It made great sourdough I thought (but what does a NewYorker know about sourdough). What did you SD aficionados think? I want to say hello to Sheryl, who introduced me to this entertaining and enlightening list. Thanks, S, hope to see you soon. Walter Mathews ------------------------------ From: charyk@inforamp.net (Field of Roses) Date: Sun, 25 Feb 1996 09:49:13 -0500 Subject: Re: bread-bakers-digest V6 #73 For Jean: Thought you might find this interesting: Linda Charyk >Cranberry-Orange Bread > >Basic white bread recipe for your breadmaker >Replace the water with orange juice >Add one extra tablespoon sugar >Add 2/3 cup dried sweetened cranberries >Add 1 tsp dried orange peel > >I use these proportions for a 1 1/2 lb loaf, so you >may want to adjust for a smaller or larger loaf. > >It's a special treat for Thanksgiving or other >holiday dinners. Or try it toasted with cream >cheese for breakfast! ------------------------------ From: bj29@mirage.skypoint.com (bjjan) Date: Sun, 25 Feb 96 07:42 CST Subject: Web Bread sites Linda Rehberg was kind enough to send me some "bread sites" . There seem to be so many of us who "are surfing the net" these days that I thought maybe you might want to see some more sites that I have checked out from the list she gave me. http://www.coloradosprings-travel.com/~dahasher/Bread_Machine.html http://www.honors.indiana.edu/~veggie/Food/Bread/ This one has 29 Bread recipes...I copied them all last night..whew! http://www.webcom.com/~stannet/bread/ (just mentioned in digest) This one offers a newsletter for $12. http://agriculture.com/contents/sf/food/breadrec.html This one has recipes from Bread Machine Bounty http://www.seanet.com/HTML/Vendors/spent/mixes.html This one only tells aobut their Spent Grain Baking Co. bread mixes http://www.proaxis.com/~pudljmpr/webbread.htm (no "l" on the end as most do) This one is Weber's Bread Pages with some Recipes http://