Date: Sunday, 18 February 1996 bread-bakers-digest Sunday, 18 February 1996 Volume 06 : Number 070 Today's Subjects: Re: bread-bakers-digest V6 #65 Comments on Digest V6 #63 Chive Potato Bread Bread sponges Home Made Bread Like Grandma Made. . . Converting recipes No excuses sponge method Any recipes for King's Hawaiian Bread?? Le Cloche Re: bread-bakers-digest V6 #69 Potato Rolls & Bread "Lighter" whole-wheat breads Vegan Recipes Pizza Crust ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Blanche007@aol.com Date: Sun, 11 Feb 1996 22:52:29 -0500 Subject: Re: bread-bakers-digest V6 #65 glad you raised the subject of rapid rise -I really dislike it for the following reasons. One of the things that gives bread personality, flavor, texture and character is the action of the yeast on the other ingredients over time - the less the time, the more blah the result. Sure, rapid rise makes something that looks just like a loaf of bread, but the loaf has all the personality and taste of a piece of cardboard. I challenge you all to do the John Henry test - side by side with both products - there is no contest, ------------------------------ From: CPXD31A@prodigy.com (MR IRWIN H FRANZEL) Date: Mon, 12 Feb 1996 12:24:52 EST Subject: Comments on Digest V6 #63 There has certainly been a lot of activity for me from subscribers to this Digest. I welcome the opportunity to discuss problems with individuals via E-Mail but there are frequently asked questions and problems that I would like to reply to on the Digest. The first topic is the matter of yeast. Yeast is a single cell organism that eats sugar and produces carbon dioxide gas (CO2) and alcohol. There are many different varieties of yeast. Some metabolize or digest the sugar available to themselves more quickly, they are quick or instant yeasts. Some produce different ratios of gas, alcohol and acid compared to others. The nature of yeast and its variety was recognized by Louis Pasteur around 1860. Not very long ago, considering that yeast had been used for 5,000 years before that time. The best yeast we have ever tested in our own laboratory for use with ABMs, is that made by LeSafre, Co., in France. The same company that was established to produce and market yeasts which Pasteur, himself had identified. This SAF yeast is the most popular for commercial use in the world. It has not been available to the public but we have it for sale at reasonable prices. The most common questions about yeast are: 1. How much should I use? Our tests indicate that 1/2 tsp per cup flour is suitable for SAF Instant French Yeast, when the bread is to be baked in an ABM on the regular cycle. 3/4 tsp per cup flour is suitable for the quick cycle. 2. How do I store yeast? Stored properly, yeast can have a very long life (at least four years!) The arch enemy of yeast is water! It should be stored in absolutely dry, airtight containers. Measuring spoons should not be placed into the containers but the yeast should be poured out into smaller containers or measuring spoons. When a vacuum packed package of yeast is opened, a small amount should be put into a small container for daily use, tightly sealed and put into the refrigerator. The rest of the package should be put into a sealable container that is the right size to store the rest in the freezer. The object is to keep the air space to a minimum. Use the yeast from the refrigerated container and open it long enough to measure the yeast and return it to the refrigerator. When the small container needs to be refilled, Allow the container from the freezer to come to room temperature before opening it! Open it and pour the yeast into the small container. Re-cover both cont ainers and return them to their respective locations. 3. Will my breads rise higher if I add more yeast? Generally not! The bread rises because the gas produced by the yeast forms bubbles in the dough. The amount of gas produced is determined by how much sugar is available for the yeast to convert to CO2. The amount the bread rises is determined by how strong the dough is and whether it is able to retain most of the gas produced. 3. Are some brands better than others? In a given application, our testing has indicated that some yeasts are distinctly better than others. We found that Red Star was much better than Fleischmann's in the Zoji S-15. It produced more uniform bread, cost less and produced a better aroma. When we were encouraged to evaluate SAF Instant French Yeast, we found it to be superior to all other yeasts we had tested. It cost a little more than Red Star, (mostly because of shipping charges) but the rise, texture, uniformity, aroma and price, made it the best yeast we had ever tested. As a result we arranged to get the commercial package for our customers. On another note, several subscribers have asked about sources of information. If you don't have a copy of Bread Machine Magic Book of Helpful Hints, by Linda Rehberg and Lois Conway, get one! This book is a valuable source of general information, contains 55 excellent recipes and we think everyone who bakes bread, whether by hand or in an ABM should have a copy. We think this book is so helpful that we offer a copy for only $8.50 when ordered with a Zoji S-15A. I must respond to Ron, who asks, "What is the advantage of using a Bread Machine?" It is a very important question and the answer is the reason that our Rehabilitation organization got involved in the sale of Zojis in the first place. We thought of using bread machines to help improve the state of mind of patients who were suffering from depression. Producing good bread made them feel good about themselves. Many of our clients had suffered injuries to hands, wrists and shoulders that made it impossible for them to make bread, "the old fashioned way". The bread machine opened a door that had been closed to them. It is an excellent rehabilitation tool! It makes anyone feel good, who can give a loaf of bread to a friend and say, "I made it myself!" We have used the Zoji S-15(A) with mentally limited children, anti-social children and others who will cooperate with one another to make a bread for themselves. We have found them to be a powerful teaching tool. That's why we find considera ble advantage in using a bread machine, Ron. E-Mail if I can help. Irwin ------------------------------ From: doreen@mastnet.net (Doreen Howard) Date: Mon, 12 Feb 1996 19:48:43 -0600 Subject: Chive Potato Bread This is my first posting to the Bread Bakers List--I've been lurking for 2-1/2 months and enjoying all the recipes. Thought it was time I shared. I got this recipe off the KitmailBox Web Page under the AOL Chat archives. As usual, I could not leave perfection alone, so I tinkered with it. Here's my version. CHIVE POTATO BREAD 1 egg 1/2 cup PLUS 3 TBS. water 2 TBS. olive oil 1 tsp. lemon juice 2 TBS. powdered milk 1 tsp. salt 2 tsp. sugar 1/4 tsp. white pepper 1/3 cup dry potato flakes or buds 1 TBS. dried chives 1-1/3 cups bread flour 3/4 cup semolina flour 2 tsp. bread machine yeast Load bread machine with ingredients in the appropriate order, according to your machine's instructions. Set machine on lightest crust setting. Makes 1-1/4 pound loaf. This recipe works perfectly in a Panasonic 1-pound machine. Water may have to be increased or reduced for other machines. Doreen Howard doreen@mastnet.net Swimming in CyperSoup, as usual ------------------------------ From: DeniseR860@aol.com Date: Tue, 13 Feb 1996 08:43:48 -0500 Subject: Bread sponges I have never used a sponge before but would love to learn about this since you are so pleased with the resulting bread. I have a friend who has mentioned it in the last year but I have not pursued learning about it. Would you be willing to share your favorite recipe? We'd all love to read it, if not try it! (I plan to try it!) Happy Valentines Denise ------------------------------ From: DeniseR860@aol.com Date: Tue, 13 Feb 1996 08:43:46 -0500 Subject: Home Made Bread Like Grandma Made. . . Ariella, I use several cookbooks but my favorites are written by a local homebaker (local to my city!) who began baking when their was a shortage of bread in the US during a war. (Is that old enough for you?) The author is much older now, obviously, I took two classes under her last year. I must recommend her books to you. They make the best of reading, learning, and breads. America's Bread Book (these do come in softback, now) Mary Gubser Quill Publishers William Morrow, New York ISBN 0-688-11608-6 Mary's Bread Basket and Soup Kettle Morrow William Morrow and Company, Inc. New York (my copy is from 1974) She has another but I don't have it and don't remember it's title. I also use a book by Red Star yeast company: "The Red Star Centennial Braed Sampler" they published it themselves: Universal Foods Corporation Milwaukee, WI 53201 and a 72 page booklet by Fleishman's yeast that cost under $5. "Fleishmann's Bake-It Easy Yeast Book" write for their other booklets and pamphlets at Fleishmann's Yeast Educational Programs P.O. Box 2695 Grand Central Station New York, New York 10017 Hope this helps you compile a good wish list! Denise ------------------------------ From: schapin@mitre.org (Susan Chapin) Date: Tue, 13 Feb 1996 09:07:26 -0500 Subject: Converting recipes >And finally, a question. I have been hesitant to mess around with unproven >(no pun intended) recipes. How does one convert a regular bread recipe to >the bread machine? > >Jean Burnett What I do is to figure out a basic recipe --amount of flour, water, sweetener, oil, salt. Then I take the new recipe and do the fractions on the flour to get it to the bread machine amount of flour and on the liquid to get it to the bread machine amount of liquid, taking into account that liquid sweetener and oil count as liquid more or less. Then I try the converted recipe, watching the knead cycle and adding flour or water as required. I taste the result, and try again. It may take two or three loaves before I am satisfied. Note that most flours do not convert 1 to 1 to wheat by volume -- oat flour in particular is a bit denser -- but hey, for a first draft I usually ignore that, and add more water if necessary. Don't hesitate to play, but don't plan to serve your first converted loaf to company either. - susan - --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Susan Chapin, schapin@mitre.org The MITRE Corporation, McLean, VA, 22102-3481 Phone: 703/883-3610 FAX: 703/883-1397 - --------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ From: Ann Miner Date: Tue, 13 Feb 1996 09:11:46 -0500 (EST) Subject: No excuses >From: "R.C. Sagnella" >Date: Sat, 27 Jan 96 14:15:48 EST >Subject: Excuse My Dust > >I see that there are a number of queries regarding bread machines. I'm >awfully puzzled. We, my wife and I, have been making bread (we grind our >own whole wheat) for many years and have done it, more or less, the old >fashion way with a little help from our KitchenAid mixer, a work horse of a >machine if ever there was one. We make anywhere from five to six loaves at >a time. My question is, where is the advantage in using a bread machine? >Certainly it's not in the time saved, because in either case you must >prepare the dough; furthermore, it seems that you have to wait five hours >and more to realize your efforts of one loaf of bread when you use a >machine. In less time than than that we have five delicious loaves ready. > >Bread making the old fashion way is fun and easy. Raise a little flour dust >and try it. The advantages are many - beyond help for those with arthritic and other medical conditions. I don't have to "prepare the dough" - I put the ingredients in the machine. I walk away. I come back (in about 2-1/2 hours) to a wonderful tasting, fresh loaf of bread and my house smells terrific. I have no mess on the counter to clean up. With my lifestyle, it's either use a machine or buy bread. I'd rather use the machine and have fresh bread. Many people like to mix and knead bread - my mother does this a couple times a week. But, just like everything else in life, it is not for everyone. I have made bread by hand - it is not fun and easy to me. I think we can all co-exist on this list and discuss what we all love - good bread. Ann ------------------------------ From: Kay Klier Date: Tue, 13 Feb 1996 07:37:08 -0800 (PST) Subject: sponge method Yes, I've used the sponge method of breadmaking for years... it's a real energy (human) saver, esp. if you lack arm or hand strength. It's never required more time than conventional bread, so I'm a bit puzzled by the 8-10 hr rise -- unless you're using sourdough or very little yeast or sugar. The old Tassajara Bread Book had lots of good instructions on sponge-method breads, and you might want to look there for detailed methods. I learned the technique from my grandmother -- basically, you just put half the flour (or so -- it should be about like brownie batter in consistency) in the first rise, allow the gluten to develop, stir the sponge down, and add the rest of the flour for the second rise. Cuts kneading time, too. - ---- Kay Klier klier@fern.com (who is about ready to chuck the new bread machine and go back to real bread) ------------------------------ From: Tamara Shaffer Date: Tue, 13 Feb 96 11:08 EST Subject: Any recipes for King's Hawaiian Bread?? Hello from Austin, Texas. Do any of you have a recipe for King's Hawaiian Bread? I buy it at our local HEB grocery stores. It is very light and sweet, and is available either as rolls, or in a large, round loaf, similar to a sourdough (in shape). I'd love to make it at home. I've been on the list, through several changes, since May 1992, and it sure has picked up lately! I eagerly wait for each new digest. Keep it coming!! Thanks in advance if anyone can help with the Hawaiian Bread recipe. TAMARA ------------------------------ From: DougCutler@aol.com Date: Tue, 13 Feb 1996 11:35:30 -0500 Subject: Le Cloche Many years ago I picked up a Le Cloche at a kitchen store sale. I have never used it, not quite true, have used the bottom as a pizza stone!. I just saw a posting regarding starting bread in your ABM then cooking in this "oven". Does anybody use one of these on a regular basis for any type of bread making, if I remember rightly Clayton recommends it in one of his books. Doug Cutler ------------------------------ From: Blanche007@aol.com Date: Tue, 13 Feb 1996 12:24:25 -0500 Subject: Re: bread-bakers-digest V6 #69 Thanks so much for multitudes of responses to those willing to try my new sour dough product - I'm overwhlemed and have to cut off the offer as of last week - or I'll run out of money and never be able to get this up and running. What a response - over 100 people in the first few days (gasp). To those who replied in time - the samples are coming. Please please let me know what you think - I've also enclosed samples of my new Dough Relaxer (for pizza crusts that fight back and pie crusts that won't roll). When I'm in production I'll be happy to send the rest of you samples. Many many thanks! Lora ------------------------------ From: Sally Eisenberg Date: Tue, 13 Feb 1996 09:38:22 -0800 Subject: Potato Rolls & Bread Hi everyone, I to enjoy this list a great deal. Here are some potato recipes. I have not had the chance to make any of the recipes, but they sound great. I have the Tupperware bread boxes and I like them a lot. I also use the plastic bowl covers with the elastic sewn in and use these to cover the cut end of the bread. This keeps it from getting dried out even in the bread box. I call them little hats for the bread. Sounds silly but works wonderfully. Regarding gluten flour I use 3 tablespoons for all my bread machine recipes with fine results. I measure my flour by using a small scoop to lightly fill my measuring cup to over flowing and then use a flat edge knife to leavel the top. This has worked well for me no matter what kind of bread I making in the bread machine or my kitchen aid mixer. Thanks to all for the great recipes and useful information, this is a great sharing list. Sally * Exported from MasterCook II * Potato Icebox Rolls (1954) Recipe By : Serving Size : 36 Preparation Time :0:00 Categories : Rolls/Bisc. Amount Measure Ingredient -- Preparation Method - -------- ------------ -------------------------------- 3/4 pound baking potatoes -- peeled and diced 1 package active dry yeast 1/2 cup water -- warmed 1 cup milk -- warmed 1/2 cup shortening 2 large eggs 1/3 cup sugar 1 1/2 teaspoons salt 4 cups all-purpose flour 1 1/2 cups all-purpose flour 1- Place 3/4 pound baking potatoes peeled and diced and enough water to cover in saucepan. Bring to boil over high heat. Reduce heat to low; cover and simmer 15 to 20 minutes until tender. Drain. Press through ricer, food mill or seive. 2- Dissolve 1 pkg. active dry yeast in 1/2 cup warm water ( 105 degrees F to 115 degress F ), let stand 5 minutes until foamy. Heat 1 cup milk and 1/2 cup vegetable shortening in small saucepan over medium heat until bubbles form around edge of pan, remove from heat. Cool slightly. 3- Beat 2 large eggs, 1/3 cup sugar and 1 1/2 teaspoon salt in mixer bowl at medium speed. Add yeast mixture, milk mixture and riced potatoes; beat until well blended. Gradually beat in 4 cups all purpose flour. Stir in 1 1/2 cups more flour with wooden spoon. 4- Turn dough onto floured surface and knead 8 to 10 minutes until smooth and elastic, kneading in 1/2 to 1 cup flour if needed. Place dough in large greased bowl turning to coat top. Cover dough with heavy plate or plastic wrap and refrigerate overnight or up to 48 hours. 5- About 2 1/2 hours before baking time, punch down dough. Grease 3 dozen 2 1/2-inch muffin pan cups or 3 cookie sheets. Divide dough into 36 equal pieces; roll each piece into a ball and place each into prepared muffin-pan or on cookie sheets. Cover with clean kitchen towels and let rise in warm draft-free place until doubled in size 2 to 2 1/2 hours. 6- Heat oven to 425 degrees F. Bake rolls 12 to 15 minutes until golden brown. NOTES: Per serving; One roll 135 calories, 4.5g fat, 29g carb. - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - * Exported from MasterCook II * Potato Sweet Biscuits Recipe By : Serving Size : 20 Preparation Time :0:00 Categories : Rolls/Bisc. Amount Measure Ingredient -- Preparation Method - -------- ------------ -------------------------------- 2 medium sweet potatoes -- peeled and diced 4 cups all-purpose flour 1/2 cup light brown sugar -- packed 5 teaspoons baking powder 1 teaspoon salt 10 Tablespoons margarine 1/3 cup milk 1- In 3-quart saucepan over high heat, heat sweet-potato dices and enough water to cover to boiling. Reduce heat to low; cover and simmer 12 to 15 minutes until potatoes are fork tender. Drain the potatoes; mash and set aside to cool. 2- Preheat oven to 425 degress F. In large bowl, combine flour, brown sugar, baking powder, and salt. With pastry blender cut in margarine until mixture resembles couarse crumbs. Stir in milk and cooled mashed sweet potatoes; mix until just combined. 3- On lightly floured surface, pat dough into an 8 1/2-inch square. Cut dough in half. Cut each half into 10 equal pieces. Place biscuits, 2-inches apart, on 2 ungreased large cookie sheets. 4- Place cookie sheets on 2 oven racks; bake biscuits 12 to 15 minutes until golden, rotating cookie sheets between upper and lower racks halfway thruogh baking time. Serve biscuits warm. Or cool on wire rack, store in tightly covered container to use within 1 day or wrap in foil and freeze to use within 2 weeks. NOTES: Per serving: One biscuit; 200 calories. 6g fat, 33g carb. - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - * Exported from MasterCook II * Dusty Potato Bread Recipe By : Serving Size : 2 Preparation Time :0:00 Categories : Bread Amount Measure Ingredient -- Preparation Method - -------- ------------ -------------------------------- 2 cups potato water -- warmed 1 package active dry yeast 3 Tablespoons sugar 1 Tablespoon salt 3 cups unbleached all purpose flour 2 Tablespoons shortening -- melted 2 1/2 cups unbleached all purpose flour 2 large potatoes -- diced Combine yeast with warm potato water and let foam.in large mixing bowl. Stir in sugar,salt and 3 cups flour. Beat well to develop gluten. Stir in cooled melted shortening . Add remaining 2 1/2 to 3 cups flour gradually. Turn dough out on a floured surface and knead 8 to 10 minutes. Place in a greased bowl, turning dough once to grease the top. Cover and let rise until doubled in bulk, 1 to 1 1/2 hours. Knead dough down in bowl. Divide dough in half. Shape into balls and place in well-greased rounded pans. Cover and let rise until almost doubled, 45 to 60 minutes. Before baking, dust loaves lightly with flour. Makes 2 loaves. Bake at 400 degrees F. for 35 to 40 minutes. Cool on wire racks. - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Lou&Sally Eisenberg sparky@netgate.net ------------------------------ From: Pat Hewitt Date: Tue, 13 Feb 1996 10:21:57 -0800 (PST) Subject: "Lighter" whole-wheat breads I have been baking breads, white and whole wheat, for many years (but not with a machine, only by hand and Kitchen Aid Mixer help) and have used the whole wheat flours sold in grocer stores and flour I would grind/mill from any Red Winter Wheatberries of no particular brand or source. About one year ago I happen to taste some whole wheat bread an acquaintance of mine had made and I was "in heaven". It was light in texture, sweet to taste, and what I then realized was no after bitter taste I had experienced in my own whole wheat breads. I couldn't get her recipe fast enough and was sure she used some kind of gluten or enhancer - I had tried these in my many experiments before also - but was SOOOO surprised to find that her recipe was very very basic: whole wheat flour, yeast, water, honey, salt. Nothing else! So I had to investigate her methods further to get to the big secret and this was what I found. She grinds her own wheat and used very specifically, a Montana Hard White Spring Wheat. So I immediatedly bought 3 - 50# bags and also her brand of yeast which is Fermipan - and made the most beautiful loaves of whole wheat bread I had every made in my life. I am totally converted to this wheat now and can hardly tolerate eating any other kind of bread. So this is my story of finding the "perfect bread recipe". If anyone is interested in the details of this recipe I will gladly bring it in to work and post it for you. Pat Hewitt hewitt@sequent.com ------------------------------ From: sherry@gorge.net (Sherry Rose) Date: Tue, 13 Feb 1996 11:38:05 -0800 Subject: Vegan Recipes Hello All, I am new to this list and am enjoying it very much. I am vegetarian and eat no eggs or dairy. I use a Westbend bread machine for all of my baking. Is there anyone else who is vegetarian no eggs or dairy and uses a bread machine who would like to exchange tried-and-liked bread recipes with me? Regards, Sherry Rose in Oregon ------------------------------ From: Sally Eisenberg Date: Tue, 13 Feb 1996 11:10:49 -0800 Subject: Pizza Crust Hi All, Here is a really good pizza crust. We have made this one twice and it has become a favorite. My husband rolls out the dough and puts on the toppings and then bakes it. All I do is make the dough, what an easy dinner, I love it. One thing be sure to use the fresh grated parmesan cheese, not the green can stuff as Donna German says. I guarantee you will like this crust. Sally * Exported from MasterCook II * Parmesan Thin Crust Pizza Dough Recipe By : Donna German Serving Size : 1 Preparation Time :0:00 Categories : Italian Amount Measure Ingredient -- Preparation Method - -------- ------------ -------------------------------- 1 teaspoon active yeast 2 cups bread flour 1/4 teaspoon salt 1/2 cup parmesan cheese -- freshly grated 1 Tablespoon olive oil 2/3 cup water -- lukewarm Put ingredients in the bread machine according to the instructions of your machine. Use the dough cycle. Pizza dough may be refrigerated, in a loosely wrapped plastic bag, for up to one week. Remove dough when needed, roll it out, top with your favorite ingredients and bake. If using pizza pans , the oven should be preheated for at least 30 minutes at 500 degrees F. If using stone the oven should be preheated for 1 hour at 500 dgrees F. to heat the stone porperly. Bake 15 to 20 minutes. - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Lou&Sally Eisenberg sparky@netgate.net ------------------------------ End of bread-bakers-digest V6 #70 ********************************* bread-bakers-digest Sunday, 18 February 1996 Volume 06 : Number 071 Today's Subjects: What a Relief! ABM manual procedure Re: Bread using sponge Re: bread-bakers-digest V6 #63 Irish Soda Bread Yeast-free, sugar-free recipes? re: REQ: Bread Book Recommendation King Arthur hello + recipe bread digest Food Processor dough. For men only! web sites manual vs machine Chorleywood process in High Speed Mixers Sticky Knead Bar (West Bend) Lebanese flat bread Bulk Yeast Adding grain? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "R.C. Sagnella" Date: Wed, 14 Feb 96 21:43:23 EST Subject: What a Relief! A while back, I wrote a short passage questioning the merits of the ABM. Subsequently, I have received aseveral friendly letters from readers explaining their preferences for the ABM. They were all very interesting. I am, however, partial to Cherie Ambrosino's discovery that bread making the old fashion way - for those who have the time and inclination and are not encumbered by a disability - is fun. There's no mystery to making good bread, only a willingness to learn to do it "correctly." You have to understand, through trial and error, how weather affects flour, how to mix your ingredients, and how to know when it's right. For that there is no substitute for your personal touch ... No matter what your preference, hands on or bread baking by machine, bread making is fun and rewarding. ABM, however, does have on advantage that a reader passed on to me: if something goes wrong, you can always blame the machine. Ron ------------------------------ From: leon.gerst@ccs.org (Leon Gerst) Date: Wed, 14 Feb 1996 17:05:00 GMT Subject: ABM manual procedure vegasjb@ix.netcom.com Sun, 4 Feb 1996 wrote: >the years and I have found that for good results I always do it by >touch as the bread mixes I feel and add more water or flour as needed, >and I never have problems with poor quality bread.In place of oil in my Marcia, What do you mean "by touch and feel as the bread mixes"? Don't have an ABM yet. Thought you just dumped everything in the pot, closed the lid, and away it went...? What IS the manual procedure using the ABMs? Leon Des Plaines IL ------------------------------ From: ShaunaR989@aol.com Date: Wed, 14 Feb 1996 17:44:24 -0500 Subject: Re: Bread using sponge >>Have been using a receipe I got from Fine Cooking a year or so ago, that >.requires a sponge, maturing in about 8-10 hours. Then, bread >>dough mixed and allowed to rise slowly--overnight. I love the result >>and tolerate the method. Anyone else using this? Or, does anyone do >.anything with sponges. I haven't tried the recipe you mentioned, but I've been making more and more breads with sponges in the last year because the flavor and texture are so much better. I don't even mind the wait--it lets me break up the breadmaking tasks a little more so I can fit them into my schedule better. What I haven't really gotten a handle on is how to convert a regular recipe to a sponge. Does anyone have any rules of thumb? Shauna Roberts in New Orleans ShaunaR989@aol.com ------------------------------ From: Cindy Bombassei & Robert Rauzi Date: Thu, 15 Feb 96 07:16 EST Subject: Re: bread-bakers-digest V6 #63 For a nice draft warm place to rise bread. I have always done it this way with great results. Warm oven to 150 degrees and turn it off. Put bread in for the second rise. Let rise 30 min. Leave bread in oven, turn on at 350, set timer for 36 min and let bake. Cindy ------------------------------ From: Marta Martin Date: Wed, 14 Feb 1996 04:31:27 -0500 Subject: Irish Soda Bread Hi All, First, just wanted to echo Priscilla's sentiments on the Tupperware Bread Machine Bread Keepers.....they work very well. I have two of them! This is a wonderfully simple recipe.....needs no ABM, and if you use the Buttermilk Baking Powder with skim it should bring the fat count down to almost nothing since there are no eggs or butter in this. It really is quite good. IRISH SODA BREAD 4 cups flour 1 tsp baking soda 2 tsp salt 1 cup sugar 2 tbs caraway seeds 1/2 box raisins 2 1/2 cups buttermilk Mix together first four ingredients. Mixing well, add final three. Pour into two greased loaf pans and bake for 55 minutes at 350 degrees. Nice and moist! Keeps well, too. Have a great week, Marta ========================================================================= Marta Martin-(marta@citynet.net) Love is the ultimate outlaw. It just won't adhere to any rules. The most any of us can do is sign on as its' accomplice. Tom Robbins Do not fear for I am with you, Do not be dismayed for I am your God. Isaiah 41:10 Shake your hips and hope for the best. Camille, age 9 ========================================================================= ------------------------------ From: Bonnie Fulmer Date: Thu, 15 Feb 1996 08:01:22 EST Subject: Yeast-free, sugar-free recipes? Dear Bread Experts, My friend's husband has just been put on a special diet, and he cannot eat anything with yeast or sugar (or vinegar, peanuts, etc., etc., etc!) He prefers sandwiches for lunch, and is getting really tired of matzoh and sourdough breads. He has no restrictions on the types of flour he can eat, though. Do you have any recipes for breads that do not contain any yeast or sugar? Is this even possible? Thanks for any recipes you can share! Bonnie Fulmer Rhinebeck, NY 12572 gbf1@maristb.marist.edu ------------------------------ From: ShaunaR989@aol.com Date: Wed, 14 Feb 1996 17:43:55 -0500 Subject: re: REQ: Bread Book Recommendation Ariella Jopling wrote: >>I would like a recommendation for a bread book. Not the kind with the >>new, fancy, yuppie recipes in them, but the kind of recipes that my >>grandmother would have been baking in the '50s. All I'm really concerned >>with is the fact that the recipes are for hand made bread, and are "tried >.and true." I just got _The Secrets of Jesuit Breadmaking_ by Brother Rick Curry, S.J. New York, HarperCollins, 1995). It may be the kind of book you're looking for: Simple, hearty recipes that had been feeding hungry monks for years, sometimes decades, before being collected for this book. I've only made two recipes from it so far, but was pleased with both. Shauna Roberts in New Orleans ShaunaR989@aol.com ------------------------------ From: Leotah@aol.com Date: Wed, 14 Feb 1996 11:53:40 -0500 Subject: King Arthur This is a note in praise of King Arthur, not just because I like their flour and other products, but because their baking department is so helpful. I had trouble with a recipe, and although it was not theirs, Erica of their baking department went to heroic efforts to help me, tracking down a friend who made a similar bread, and calling me back with several suggestions. So, thanks to King Arthur. Laury Epstein ------------------------------ From: mvinqvist@mta.ca (Mindy Vinqvist) Date: Fri, 16 Feb 1996 09:59:35 -0400 Subject: hello + recipe Hello, I just joined, thanks to info from a friend of mine, Dennis. Your digest is really interesting and I enjoy what I have read so far. I have been baking bread by hand since I was about 12 years old (I'm 28 now), but my hubby recently bought me a bread machine which I adore. I like the hands on baking because it is soothing, and will always use that method to make rolls I think, but the bread machine is quick and convenient (especially since I work and it is nice to come home to fresh bread), less messy, and my son likes to watch it work through the little window (I guess I am less exciting to watch). I have tried kits and plus I have adapted some favorite recipes and am quite pleased, except for a couple of questions.... ...when I make 50% whole wheat by hand it raises better than any other variety, but in the bread machine it doesn't...why? I've also tried 100% whole wheat and multigrain bread in the machine and it doesn't rise much (though it is still soft and tasty). I do have gluten which I have used when it was called for? Should I avoid the whole wheat cycle and stick to regular? Plus, when I have made recipes where I am to add things, like raisins or whatever, part way into the process (at the beep in the knead cycle), the things do tend to accumulate more near the bottom, even though I do poke at the dough with a soft spatula to help things mix (you know what I mean). Advice? I have a super yummy recipe that I got from somebody (Please forgive me but I don't remember who) on the eat-l recipe list. The chocolate chips melt and make chocolate swirls (yummy). I added pecans too since I ran out of walnuts...here it is Chocolate Walnut Bread (1 1/2 pound loaf) 1 egg+enough water to = 3/4 cup + 2 tbsp 1/2 tsp salt 3 tbsp brown sugar 1 tbsp butter 1/2 tsp vanilla 2 1/4 c flour 1 tbsp dry milk 1 1/4 tsp yeast 3/4 c chocolate chips 1/4 c chopped walnuts Measure carefully, placing all ingred in bread machine pan in the order recommended by the manufacturer. Select sweet cycle, do not use delay. Add chips and walnuts at beep in knead cycle. Notes: I had to add a bit of water during the kneading, but I didn't really measure it and you guys may wish to keep an eye on it and adjust it for yourselves, plus the original recipe used only 1 tsp yeast, which likely is fine but I didn't try it that way. Bye for now, please feel free to e-mail me or post answers to my (probably) silly questions. ;-) Mindy mvinqvist@mta.ca ------------------------------ From: LoisCon@aol.com Date: Thu, 15 Feb 1996 23:58:00 -0500 Subject: bread digest Tim asked about bulk yeast. I store mine in the freezer Tim. I do pull some off and put it into a small jar so it is easier to get at. It should last a year that way. Daniela asked about bread machines with a dough cycle which can be set on a timer. Some of the new Toastmaster models have that feature. If you have an older model 1 1/2 pound Panasonic, that was a standard feature on the crisp dough cycle. For all of you who want the King Arthur catalogue:1-800-827-6836 There have been several questions on storage of bread. Linda and I got a wonderful plastic bread box, which expands and holds the largest bread machine bread. It is called Wanda's Bread Box. We purchased it at Williams-Sonoma and we both notice that the bread stays fresher longer with it. Lois Conway (and Linda Rehberg) Bread Machine Magic and The Bread Machine Magic Book of Helpful Hints. For more information please contact me at: LoisCon@AOL.com I am happy to answer personal questions ------------------------------ From: Juliet Nalven Date: Wed, 14 Feb 1996 14:26:44 -0800 (PST) Subject: Food Processor dough. Thanks for taking part of your life to keep this list going. I just started recieving the mailings and been pleased with your responses to questions. I have an old DAK machine which sits covered on the floor, dreaming of making bread. But that darn stirring blade stays put. (previous contributor noted this with the West Bend). My solution was to (when bread has cooled in pan or out) to unwind the 'blade' and not pull it out. Yes a gap is left but no dough removed. But the real reason (I've been baking bread by hand for over 15 years) I stopped was the loss of control and the same boring shape. I now use my Cuisinart(extra large), with the regular knife blade. It's tricky, but once you find the correct consistency, it only takes 1-2 minutes to knead the dough. Over heating the dough can occur if left to knead much longer. I haven't tried it with whole grains. Mostly to make the softer doughs, egg bread ( Challah ), pizza, french bread, potato/corn meal. The advantages are that if I'm having a pizza party I can whip up tons of dough in a few minutes or make a party/dip loaf. I've also taken to producing huge crusty loaves with raggety tops. I smear the insides with some oil, cover with loose plastic wrap and close machine. Hitting the pulse switch to punch it down. The dough rises in the food processor, blade and all. Then dump the rough mass onto corn meal, or sesame seeds. Gently remove blade from top of mass. Pinch together the top here and there. Spray with water or dust with flour, bake at 450 F for 30 min. reduce to 350 for 20 min. or until it 'clunks'. Instant Potato Bread 450 F yield: 2/4x8 loaves (appx) 1/ 15x7"loaf 1.5- 2 tsp yeast (dry) 1/3 - 1/2 C sugar 1 T salt 1/4 C instant potato ( granulated,flakes may work) 2 T cornmeal (not cornFLOUR) 6 C Bread flour 3 3/4 to 4 C water I don't like a sour white bread, so a longer rise with less yeast is OK. Julia Childs "Best Chefs" series made a bread which looked like this one, raised in a basket, filled with olives. VERY slow rise. Crusty and fluffy inside. However this one is soft inside, and somewhat dense, like a bagel. a Montreal Bagel. Regards, Juliet Nalven, Eugene Oregon ------------------------------ From: CorgiSews@aol.com Date: Fri, 16 Feb 1996 10:57:53 -0500 Subject: For men only! My local paper, the Rochester Times Union, last week had an article about Bread Machines last week. Included was an annoucement of a contest FOR MEN ONLY. Sponsored by Black & Decker Household products, ABM recipes can be submitted in three categories: healthiest, most exotic and dessert breads. Contest ends April 30. Entry forms & rules can be obtained by sending a SASE to: Real Men Bake Bread Contest, P.O. Box 4320, Manhasset, NY 11030-4320. Grand prize is an all-expense-paid week in Paris, including bread making classes at the Cordon Bleu Cooking School. Six regional winners will receive $500. and be flown to NYC for final judging in May. Of course, if any of you guys enter this and are regional winners, we expect to see the recipes posted here - in due time. On second thought, the rules probably state the recipes become the property of Black & Decker! Debby, CorgiSews@aol.com Sewing is more interesting when your corgi uses the foot pedal as a chin rest. ------------------------------ From: Marta Martin Date: Wed, 14 Feb 1996 18:59:46 -0500 Subject: web sites Here are a couple of bread machine recipe web sites for those of you who are interested. www.use.net/~dahasher/bread_machine.html www.limey.net/~fiji/bread Marta ========================================================================= Marta Martin-(marta@citynet.net) ========================================================================= ------------------------------ From: emily@goblin.com (Emily Woudenberg) Date: Wed, 14 Feb 1996 23:38:39 -0700 Subject: manual vs machine On Feb. 5 Cherie Ambrosino asked about chosing between the two different sizes of Kitchenaid mixers. If you can possibly afford it,Cherie, I recommend purchasing the larger, 5 qt, machine. The engine is stronger and I find it easier to use when lifting out the beaters (the K-5 lifts the beaters straight up.) I'm sure others have comparable stories, but I have been using (and abusing) my K-5 for everything, particularly bread-making, since 1970! And it doesn't even look any different than the new ones! They've kept it looking just exactly the same, which for some reason I find extremely comforting. Regarding using a bread-machine vs the Kitchenaid or the manual method: aside from its obvious advantages for those with arthritis, fibromegalia, or other joint -problems, the bread-machine is a champion of neatness! Everything is self-contained--no flour flying around, no counters to scrape. Sometimes this is so important to me. But the total amount of flour you can use, at least in my larger machine, is 3 to 3/12 cups of flour. In my Kitchenaid I can mix 6 cups, which makes more loaves at once. I have discovered that if I drape my Kitchenaid mixer in a big old kitchen towel (sort of shroud it completely) when I am adding the last few cups of flour, it doesn't send out flurries of flour all over. Finally, I regard the manual method of mixing and kneading like I do driving in my old stick-shift car--it feels good to do it; the experience is authentic; but it's just not very convenient. However, I do tend to hover over my bread-machine while it is kneading so I can keep an eye on the relative dryness or wetness of the dough--and I almost always shape it and bake it in the oven myself rather than using the complete baking cycle! So who's fooling whom about "convenient"? BTW, could someone (re)enlighten me about how much vital wheat gluten to add to all-purpose flour to make it approximate bread flour? I read this recently , but can't recall exaxctly where. Was it 1 Tablespoon per cup of all-purpose flour? Thanks for a tremendously enlightening forum! - --Emily Emily Woudenberg emily@goblin.com ------------------------------ From: David Cripps Date: Thu, 15 Feb 1996 15:07:38 +1100 (EST) Subject: Chorleywood process in High Speed Mixers Hi everybody, Our Bakery in Southern Tasmania uses a High Speed Dough Mixer manufactured by Tweedy of Burnley for the Automatic production of our bread lines. This model of mixer (5500) allows us to use the Chorleywood Bread Process of dough mixing, however the high temperatures encountered during the mixing cycle, require large ammounts of chilled water to be added to the flour and ingredients. By increasing the final dough temperature we have reduced our chilled water requirements, but the consequences of doing so tend to make for an overmixed dough. As I understand it, the original manufacturers Tweedy are now owned by APV Baker Pty Ltd, of Burnley in Lancashire. We would like nothing better than to be able to make contact with other Bakeries with similar dough mixers, to compare notes on dough types, & the results of different recipe types. If your Bakery has a similar dough mixer, I would be delighted to hear from you. Kind regards David Cripps - -- dcripps@ozemail.com.au 20 Croydon Ave., Hobart, Tasmania. PH 61-02-725267 ------------------------------ From: Robert Turnbull Date: Tue, 13 Feb 1996 20:39:18 -0500 Subject: Sticky Knead Bar (West Bend) >From: jonathan@cyberus.ca (Jonathan File) >Subject: Help! Bread sticks to my paddle >I've got a Westbend bread maker. It is about 1.5 years old now. For the >last while, I've had a heck of a time getting my loaf out of the pan...the >reason being, the paddle won't come out of the cooked loaf. >Jonathan Call the West Bend 800 number. When I had started having sticky paddle problems they gave me a new redesigned paddle. (made of teflon or some similar slippery material). This cured the problem. ------------------------------ From: CorgiSews@aol.com Date: Fri, 16 Feb 1996 10:58:11 -0500 Subject: Lebanese flat bread The inquiry about Lebanese flat bread sent me back to the local library, where I remembered seeing a book that might be of interest. It is "Pita The Great" by Virginia T. Habeeb. Workman Publishing, NYC, 1986 On pg 13, the author says,"The Lebanese marook is shaped by hand in much the same manner as pizza, by tossing and stretching the dough until it is well over a foot in size. It is then flipped onto a concave shaped metal surface set over a heat source where it bakes quickly in minutes. The Armenians have a similar bread, called lavash, which is baked to a cracker-like crispness and measures anywhere from 5 to 20 inches." Then on page 31 is a recipe for Unleavened Griddle-Baked Pita. (Makes 12) 3 cups unbleached all-purpose flour. ( OR 2 cups all purpose flour & 1 cup whole wheat flour) plus flour for kneading. 1 teaspn salt 1 to 1 1/2 cups warm water (90 to 110 degrees F) Vegetable oil 1. Mix with a wooden spoon, the flour & salt in a large bowl. Add water till the dough pulls away from the sides of the bowl and is no longer sticky and is smooth. 2. Knead till smooth & elastic on a well floured board - 5 minutes. 3. Shape the dough into a rectangle, and divide into 12 smooth balls. Cover with sliighly damp towels & let rest for 5 to 10 minutes. 4 . Gently press each ball flat, keeping round shape. With floured work surface & rolling pin, roll each round to a 6 to 7 inch circle, paper thin. Cover with a slighly damp towel. 5. Lightly oil a griddle or large skillet & warm over medium high heat until hot. Gently stretch each round as thin as possible without holes as you place it on the griddle. Cook until browned, bubbly spots appear on the bottom, about 1 1/2 minutes; turn and brown the other side. Remove from the pan and immediately wrap in a clean towel until cool enough to handle. Serve warm or at room temp. 6. Repeat with all. Pan will have to be re-oiled after 3-4. Do not add too much oil or the pitas will be soggy and heavy. ****************************************************************** This book also includes many interesting stuffing recipes, dips, spreads, soups, tea, yogurt and such sweets as glazed pita puffs and apricot & apple combinations. Posting for the first time to this list. Thanks to all of you (especially LoisCon@.aol.com and her book, The Bread Machine Book of Helpful Hints ) for information that has made our first few weeks with an ABM much easier. We have a Zo, bought after returning a Breadman Plus due to it's burning, heavy crust. Debby Sewing is more interesting when your corgi uses the foot pedal as a chin rest! ------------------------------ From: DeniseR860@aol.com Date: Wed, 14 Feb 1996 13:52:21 -0500 Subject: Bulk Yeast Timothy, I buy yeast in bulk, as you do, and have bought the Red Star you mentioned. I keep mine in the freezer, in it's original packing that is in a freezer ziploc. I have kept it there for a year with no change in results. I take it out, measure it, and make my bread. I don't bake weekly so this helps me save the $$ that I want to over the three strip packs of yeast. It has worked for years like this for me. I even have just finished a package that I've had for over a year and it worked until I used it up. Really, I just have it handy in my freezer that is part of my refrig in the kitchen. Denise ------------------------------ From: rKimble@OREGON.UOREGON.EDU (Reeva Kimble) Date: Thu, 15 Feb 1996 15:30:06 -0800 (PST) Subject: Adding grain? I would like to add wheat berries, oat berries or rye berries to bread machine recipes. I assume I should soak the berries first? How long? An hour or overnight? Should the liquid in the recipe be decreased because of the extra liquid added to the grain? Any thought on this matter would be appreciated. Thanks Reeva Kimble Eugene, Oregon ------------------------------ End of bread-bakers-digest V6 #71 ********************************* bread-bakers-digest Sunday, 18 February 1996 Volume 06 : Number 072 Today's Subjects: Digest Hamburger Buns Re: Machine vs. Manual Re: bread-bakers-digest V6 #68 response just bread,,,,,, Apology! Re: bread-bakers-digest V6 #69 bread-bakers-digest V6 #68 bobliography Lecithin bread-bakers-digest V6 #68 bread-bakers-digest V6 #68 -- manual vs. machine Sweet doughs ? Crispy Crusty Bread ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Sharp, Kenneth" Date: Fri, 16 Feb 1996 11:34:04 -0800 Subject: Digest I have been receiving the digest for about 3 weeks and thoroughly enjoy it, unlike some of the other lists I have tried. With that said, I am interested if there have been discussions or if anyone has interests in pasta or noodle recipes, a bread in some respects. I would like to learn about pasta/noodle recipes and I am particularly interested in finding out if anyone has information or guidance about making rice noodles for Asian cuisine and whole gain pastas. ------------------------------ From: Blueiis1@aol.com Date: Fri, 16 Feb 1996 11:33:24 -0800 Subject: Hamburger Buns Hi Everyone! I was reading the recent accolades for Irwin and would like to add mine. My husband gave me a Zo for Christmas and Irwin has been great about answering my questions. Thanks Irwin! Now, does anyone have a recipe for hamburger buns for the bread machine? Also, maybe a tad off subject, I would love to have the recipe for the Sara Lee Pecan Coffee Cake. I have tried for a year to get this recipe. I could almost eat a whole one by myself. Its one of those cakes you hide in the back of the fridge so only you know where it is! Thanks Debbie ------------------------------ From: Janet_Wilson@mindlink.bc.ca (Janet Wilson) Date: Fri, 16 Feb 1996 11:34:06 -0800 Subject: Re: Machine vs. Manual I like making bread both ways, but I have specific reasons for choosing one method over another. Our family only goes through one loaf a day on average. Frozen bread is not the same a fresh bread, so I would much rather use the machine every day. That way, we are not drowning in bread, always have a lovely fresh loaf, and enjoy the aroma of fresh baking bread every day. I often set the cycle so that the baking coincides with visitors. The aroma gets raves. The machine also takes MUCH less time. Once you memorize your favourite recipes, it is much quicker to just fill the pan in the am. and walk away till the baking is done. I would venture to say that even per loaf, there is less time involved in machine bread than hand made bread. With the machine I can also try out a new recipe without committing a lot of time and materials. I make hand made bread when we have a crowd and need to feed lots of people. For hand made bread, I only use tried and true recipes. I hate investing all that time and flour to end up with 4 inedible loaves. I test recipes at our cabin, where there is no electricity! Breadmakers are my favourite wedding gift. I have the WestBend Automatic Bread and Dough Maker...great machine, great price, great customer suppport. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Janet_Wilson@mindlink.bc.ca Tsawwassen (Vancouver), BC, Canada ------------------------------ From: Kathryn Hagen <73174.2455@compuserve.com> Date: Fri, 16 Feb 1996 11:34:08 -0800 Subject: Re: bread-bakers-digest V6 #68 Ron asks: >My question is, where is the advantage in using a bread machine? >Certainly it's not in the time saved, because in either case you must >prepare the dough; furthermore, it seems that you have to wait five hours >and more to realize your efforts of one loaf of bread when you use a >machine. In less time than that we have five delicious loaves ready. Ron, I'm really confused as to 1) where you find your time savings in making bread by hand and 2) what you mean by "preparing the dough" when using a bread machine. 1) It takes less than five minutes to put the ingredients in the bread pan and four hours (3 if you use the light cycle) until the bread is ready. 2) You don't have to mix any ingredients when you use a bread machine. I have arthritis in my hands and spine and could no more make bread "the old fashion (sic) way" than the proverbial man in the moon. Also, with only my husband and I to feed, having five loaves of bread at one time is four too many. :-) Kathy ------------------------------ From: LoisCon@aol.com Date: Fri, 16 Feb 1996 17:51:12 -0500 Subject: response Subj: Re: bread digest Date: Fri, Feb 16, 1996 9:02 AM EDT From: bj29@mirage.skypoint.com X-From: bj29@mirage.skypoint.com (bjjan) For Daniela: A method I use when I want to Use a DELAY plus Dough cycle and my 1# Pana only lets me DELAY on other settings, not dough! If I have a rough idea when I want my dough to be done waiting for me????... Example: If I think I will be coming home about 5 o'clock, I set my bread machine for: BASIC CYCLE and set TIMER FOR 6:30 p.m. What I am trying to do is TRICK my machine. My machine is planning the ACTUAL BAKING of my BREAD at 6:00!! I come in the door at 5 or 5:15 or 5:30 and I still have enough time to go over to the machine and press CANCEL At this point, the machine is only in RISE, NOT getting HOT or BAKING When I press CANCEL, the dough can just SIT there until I really want to use it I hope you understand?? It is sort of confusing, but it works! I hope this isn't too confusing.....Bev in MN ------------------------------ From: "Neil T. Dunn" Date: Sat, 17 Feb 1996 13:42:33 +-1000 Subject: just bread,,,,,, Hello everyone; I have been subscribing to this list for quite sometime and have read so much useful information, it is almost staggering. I came from a houisehold where MOM was modern and didn't take the time to bake her own bread, yet grandma did. I would occassionally havbe the opportunity to experience the great aroma of the bread baking process. Over the years I tried on many occassions to simulate those good old days and pleasureable moments, but not with much success. Having been a twenty year military man also didn't leave many opportunities to constantly experiment day in and day out. Also being single I was usually overwhelmed by the mess remaining to be cleaned. In fact, just the daily routine of cleaning up after cooking any decent meal was viewed with strong disdain. The truth of the matter is the introduction of the bread making machine. It fits perfectly into my single life style. It impresses dates and it only leaves me one item to clean afterwards vice a bowl, a mixing utensil, a countertop or board sprinkled with flour, not to mention the flour I used to spill as a clutzy around the kitchen sort of guy, and all the used food items such as egg shells, etc. Add to this the time involved and in my particular case, which I am not afraid to admit, over cooking about 1/4 of the time. Folks, in my situation there is only solution!!!! GIVE ME BREAD MAKING MACHINE OR GIVE ME DEATH!!! I am not very artistic or ingenious when it comes to trying NEW ideas either. My many attempts at experimentation have, 100% of the time, resulted in disaster. Even when they look good, they taste like something directly out of the pits of hell. Folks, I am sure there are many others like me who have nothing substantial to contribute to this list, but who greatly appreciate all the effort you put forward in taking the time to put your ideas and recipes down in writing. Believe me, the silent majority is alive and we are reading eagerly every word you kindly share. Remember, I have nothing substantial to contribute. Truth is, my kitchen escapades could be chronicled and shown as a HBO Comedy spectacular. Please everyone, KEEP THOSE RECIPES AND IDEAS COMMING IN. Someone is reading and appreciating every word. Thanks to you ALL! Neil Dunn, from the EDGE of the WORLD, GUAM...where America's day begins....Paradise!! ------------------------------ From: "Natalie Frankel" Date: Sat, 17 Feb 1996 00:48:18 -0600 (CST) Subject: Apology! I need to apologize for posting a recipe for 7 or 9 grain bread last week without giving credit to the original poster. I'm sorry that I don't HAVE the name of the poster because I copied it into my recipe file, make a few changes so it would work in my fussy breadmaker, then copied it, without any header or credit to this list. I really forgot my manners on this one! If the wonderful baker that originally posted it saw it and cringed, please forgive me. It was very unintentional. A nice person sent me a gentle reminder and I appreciated that very much. Natalie Frankel Milwaukee, WI ------------------------------ From: Kronshage@aol.com Date: Sat, 17 Feb 1996 15:04:43 -0500 Subject: Re: bread-bakers-digest V6 #69 Betty Kuenzel asked about a recipe for asiago cheese bread. I made a bread called Italian Easter bread from a book called The Bread Machine Gourmet (have loaned the book at the moment, so I can't provide more details at the moment); it called for asiago cheese and was made using the dough cycle on the bread machine. It was creamy and wonderful! Hope this helps. This is my first contribution to the digest, which I have been receiving for a couple of months. Have used a bread machine for 3+ years: a Hitachi HBB201 and am very pleased with it. (I was surprised to read all the negatives about this machine in the digest.)--Una Kronshage ------------------------------ From: BreadMagician@prodigy.com (MRS LINDA L REHBERG) Date: Sat, 17 Feb 1996 22:12:29 -0800 Subject: bread-bakers-digest V6 #68 To: Rod McColl Good afternoon from San Diego, California. I think the best baker's catalog is King Arthur's. They do not have an E-mail address but here's their mailing address: The Baker's Catalog P.O. Box 876 Norwich, VT 05055-0876 U.S.A Even if you have to pay extra for postage, it would be worth it just for one catalog. Enjoy! Linda Rehberg ------------------------------ From: Reggie Dwork Date: Fri, 16 Feb 1996 23:05:03 -0800 Subject: bobliography A list member has offered to compile a bibliography for books that we all use and enjoy. If anyone wants to contribute to this please send a message to . It would be helpful if you would put the name of the book, author, ISBN#, if it is a bread machine, hand made, cuisinart made, mixer with dough hooks, a combo book or any other helpful info. I would also be interested in reading why you enjoy this particular book. She is hoping to break the list into hand made and machine made and any other sub-groups that might be helpful. So, send in your preferences. Thanks, Reggie - -- Reggie Dwork | Om Mani Padme Hung reggie@jeff-and-reggie.com | Owner bread-bakers, eat-lf and otbf mailing lists ------------------------------ From: BreadMagician@prodigy.com (MRS LINDA L REHBERG) Date: Sat, 17 Feb 1996 22:12:33 -0800 Subject: Lecithin Betty, Lois and I tested breads using granular lecithin alone as a dough enhancer. We found that alone it had no effect on the height of the loaf; however, when combined with vital wheat gluten, it actually produced a taller loaf than when using only gluten. So, when using lecithin, we always combine it with gluten for best results. BTW, avoid the liquid lecithin. It's extremely sticky and difficult to work with. Linda Rehberg ------------------------------ From: BreadMagician@prodigy.com (MRS LINDA L REHBERG) Date: Sat, 17 Feb 1996 22:12:31 -0800 Subject: bread-bakers-digest V6 #68 To: Tim Shih The trick to freezing those 1 and 2 lb bulk packages of yeast is freezing. Remove just enough for a few weeks of baking and place in a tightly sealed, small jar (something the size of a baby food jar). Then seal up the original package well, place in a ziplock bag and place in the freezer. You'll find that it will last at least one year that way! Air and heat are yeast's enemies so always keep it tightly sealed and cool (and dry). Linda Rehberg ------------------------------ From: "Angie Klidzejs" Date: Tue, 13 Feb 96 15:33:25 CDT Subject: bread-bakers-digest V6 #68 -- manual vs. machine In response to the question about whether to buy a 4.5 or 5 qt KitchenAid mixer, definitely get the 5 qt model. I started out with the 4.5 qt "Classic" model (250 watts) a little over a year ago. While it was adequate for most things, I wasn't entirely happy with it. Some bread doughs and double-batches of cookies simply stopped the machine. I lucked out because a friend was interested in buying it from me. I immediately went out and bought a 5 qt Heavy Duty model (325 watts) which works much better when I decide to push it. Even going one step up, to the 350 watt, might not be a bad idea for those who have the extra money to spend. Check prices at various kitchen supply stores, and watch prices at major department stores -- the mixers do go on sale from time to time. If you can find a good sale, the price is not that much greater than for the 4.5 qt models. The other drawback to the "Classic" mixer was its screw-base bowl with no handle; this sometimes got stuck in the mixer and was hard to remove. - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Date: Tue, 13 Feb 96 17:23:45 EST Subject: Sweet doughs ? Why does it take longer for sweet , rich bread doughs to rise? I would think that the yeast would have more to "eat", therefore rise faster! Just wondering... - -- Lorna McCloud Teacher-Librarian King Elementary Woodbridge, VA lmccloud@pen.k12.va.us ------------------------------ From: Sally Eisenberg Date: Tue, 13 Feb 1996 11:52:50 -0800 Subject: Crispy Crusty Bread Made this bread over the weekend and it is a real good tasting bread. Enjoy. Sally * Exported from MasterCook II * Dutch Crunch Bread Recipe By : Sunset Magazine Serving Size : 1 Preparation Time :0:00 Categories : Breads Amount Measure Ingredient -- Preparation Method -------- ------------ -------------------------------- 3/4 cup water -- warmed 1 teaspoon sugar 1 package active dry yeast 1/2 teaspoon salt 1 Tablespoon butter or margarine -- melted 2 1/2 cups all-purpose flour Dutch Crunch Topping 2 teaspoons sugar 2 packages active dry yeast 1/4 teaspoon salt 6 Tablespoons white rice flour 1 teaspoon salad oil 1/3 cup water -- warm 1. Combine warm water and sugar in a bowl. Add yeast and stir briefly; let stand until bubbly ( About 10 minutes ). Add salt and butter. 2. Stir in 1 1/2 cups of the flour. To knead with a dough hook, add 1/2 cup more flour and beat on high speed until dough is springy and pulls away from sides of bowl ( about 8 minutes ), adding more flour, few tablespoons at a time, if dough is sticky. 3. Cover with plastic wrap and let rise in a warm place until doubled ( 45 to 60 minutes). Meanwhile, prepare Dutch Crunch Topping. 4. Punch dough down and knead briefly on a lightly floured board to release air. Shape into a loaf and place in a greased 4-by 8-inch loaf pan. Spread topping over dough. Let stand, uncovered, in a warm place until puffy ( 20 to 25 minutes ). 5. Bake in a 375 degrees F oven until deep golden brown ( 50 to 60 minutes ). Turn loaf out onto a rack and let cool. Makes 1 loaf. Dutch Crunch Topping In a large bowl stir together all the ingredients and cover and let rise in a warm place until double (35 to 40 minutes ). Stir well. If made ahead, cover and let stand for up to 15 minutes; stir before using. - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - NOTES : I made this bread without the Dutch Crunch Topping, and the bread it's self was just great. It's a light-textured loaf with a crisp crust. Great for sandwiches. Lou&Sally Eisenberg sparky@netgate.net ------------------------------ End of bread-bakers-digest V6 #72 ********************************* bread-bakers-digest Sunday, 25 February 1996 Volume 06 : Number 073 Today's Subjects: bibliography What a Relief! Yeast-free, sugar-free recipes X-mas Zoji with loud clank... Re: clay cooker #70 Re: bread-bakers-digest V6 #71 Cranberry-orange bread Tupperware Bread Storage Keepers Lefsa! Re: bread-bakers-digest V6 #72 Bosch Food Processor recipe request Burger Buns The Controversy Continues... Re: bread-bakers-digest V6 #72 looking for James Beard Zepher roll recipe sourdoough samples DAK Bread Machine Paddles ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Reggie Dwork Date: Sun, 25 Feb 1996 00:47:51 -0800 Subject: bibliography Hi everyone, I put a note into last week's bbd but it didn't get many responses so I thought I would try again. A list member will do a bibliography of all the books we like to use. Please send to . Please include the author, ISBN#, if it is a machine made, hand made, combo of different ways to make bread, mixer made etc. type of book. It would also be helpful to put in why you like this/these book/s. I am almost thru with the archiving of all the bbd's for the last 5+ years and hope to have them accessible soon. I would also like to have the bibliography available to everyone. Thanks, Reggie - -- Reggie Dwork | Om Mani Padme Hung reggie@jeff-and-reggie.com | Owner bread-bakers, eat-lf and otbf mailing lists ------------------------------ From: ephraim@stonewire.com (Ephraim Vishniac) Date: Sun, 18 Feb 1996 15:48:55 -0500 Subject: What a Relief! From: "R.C. Sagnella" Date: Wed, 14 Feb 96 21:43:23 EST ABM, however, does have on advantage that a reader passed on to me: if something goes wrong, you can always blame the machine. Actually, all my failures with a bread machine have been entirely my fault. Forgot the paddle, didn't seat the paddle, forgot one ingredient or another. Wait, there was one failure that wasn't my fault, but it wasn't the machine's fault either: the power went off in the middle of the night. ------------------------------ From: gourmet@mail.utexas.edu (Cindy) Date: Sun, 18 Feb 1996 16:14:10 -0500 Subject: Yeast-free, sugar-free recipes Bonnie Fulmer said: > My friend's husband has just been put on a special diet, >and he cannot eat anything with yeast or sugar (or vinegar, >peanuts, etc., etc., etc!) He prefers sandwiches for lunch, >and is getting really tired of matzoh and sourdough breads. >He has no restrictions on the types of flour he can eat, >though. Do you have any recipes for breads that do not >contain any yeast or sugar? Is this even possible? > Thanks for any recipes you can share! She may want to look at the book Breadtime Storeis, by Susan Jane Cheney. There's lots of good information in there on natural-rise breads and flat breads that she may find useful. I hope this helps. Cindy ------------------------------ From: KCHolz@aol.com Date: Mon, 19 Feb 1996 00:52:22 -0500 Subject: X-mas Zoji with loud clank... We got a Zoji from King Arthur Flour in early December, 1995. It makes a loud clanking noise during the kneading cycles. Just got notified by King Arthur that this is not normal and they are replacing our Zoji. It appears Zoji left out a part! So, if you got one last year and it makes a loud noise, call Zoji directly for a replacement. Cheers, Katherina kcholz@aol.com ------------------------------ From: bj29@mirage.skypoint.com (bjjan) Date: Sun, 18 Feb 96 21:25 CST Subject: Re: clay cooker #70 Doug Cutler asked about cooking in a Clay Cooker? Since I have 5 and one of them is a LaCloche, I just want to tell him he going to LOVE using it! I use mine in many different ways. The easiest is to sprinkle (heavily) a coating of flour on the bottom of your LaCloche. Place the dough (either by-hand dough or dough out of a bread machine) on the bottom. Cover it and let it rise about and hour and a half to two hours. You want it nice and high without touching the top of the LaCloche. Slash the top of the dough. Then place the covered LaCloche into a COLD oven. Turn the temperature to 450=B0 and let it bake for 45 minutes. That's ALL there is to it! ...Except a recipe is also important! I good French or Italian loaf will make you "dream" you are really eating the wonderful crusty bread in Europe! If you have a bread machine, there is an excellent recipe in The Bread Machine Magic Book of Helpful Hints called French Bread Extraordinaire. It calls for 3-1/2 Cups of unbleached white flour, 1-1/2 teaspoons Salt, 1-1/4 C. Water, 2 teaspoons of Red Star brand active dry yeast. Although it isn't in the recipe, I also add 1 Tablespoon of Vital Wheat Gluten to give the dough extra body. Bev in Mn (aka Claycooker @AOL and bjjan on the Net) ------------------------------ From: Blanche007@aol.com Date: Sun, 18 Feb 1996 21:38:58 -0500 Subject: Re: bread-bakers-digest V6 #71 To Emily who uses her Kitchenaid mixer draped wiotha towel when making bread: Emily - there is a vert in the back of the head of machine which will suck in flour (or other dry ingredinets). This will eventually burn out the motor - I used touse a towel - had to buy a new machine.... ------------------------------ From: Kathryn Whitver Date: Mon, 19 Feb 96 08:20:48 CST Subject: Cranberry-orange bread Hi all, I've throroughly enjoyed this list and learned a great deal. Thanks for sharing your expertise! Since this is my first posting, I'll introduce myself with my favorite special breadmaker recipe (this is an easy one and always gathers compliments): Cranberry-Orange Bread Basic white bread recipe for your breadmaker Replace the water with orange juice Add one extra tablespoon sugar Add 2/3 cup dried sweetened cranberries Add 1 tsp dried orange peel I use these proportions for a 1 1/2 lb loaf, so you may want to adjust for a smaller or larger loaf. It's a special treat for Thanksgiving or other holiday dinners. Or try it toasted with cream cheese for breakfast! Kathryn ------------------------------ From: Ina Bechhoefer Date: Mon, 19 Feb 1996 07:53:10 -0500 Subject: Tupperware Bread Storage Keepers Do the tupperware storage keepers keep the crust from getting soft--a problem with my current bread keeper. Also, is there a source where one can get the keeper without particpating in one of those "loathsome" Tupperware parties? Thanks ------------------------------ From: Roger Devine Date: Mon, 19 Feb 1996 09:02:46 -0500 (EST) Subject: Lefsa! This list is wonderful - thanks so much for making it available. My question for the group is this - As a good (part-)Norwegian boy, I have had occasional cravings for a norwegian flatbread called lefsa that my grandmother used to make. Does anyone have a lefsa recipe they can post? I have been baking by hand, and don't have a machine, so hand-method recipes would be preferred. Given that it is a flatbread, I imagine that there aren't machine recipes, though. - -Roger Devine Devine@echonyc.com ------------------------------ From: vegasjb@ix.netcom.com (John and Marcia Bean) Date: Mon, 19 Feb 1996 06:20:01 -0800 Subject: Re: bread-bakers-digest V6 #72 Hamburger Buns This is a small batch I use in my bread machine. Yeast 1 Pkg Bread Flour 3 1/2 cups Parmesan Cheese 1/3 cup Sugar 2 Tbls Salt 1 Tsp Milk 1/2 cup Water 1/2 cup Shortening 2 Tbls Egg 1( 1/4 cup ) Mix on manual setting, when completed divide into 8 pieces form into balls then place on greased cookie sheet. Flatten each ball into a 4" diameter. Cover; let rise in warm place 15 to 30 min.You can if you wish brush buns with beaten egg and sprinkle with additional parmesan cheese. Bake at 400 degree for 10 to 12 min. ------------------------------ From: vvsurbey@aahz.magic.mb.ca (Val Surbey) Date: Mon, 19 Feb 96 08:23 CST Subject: Bosch Food Processor Hi: My name is Val Surbey and I live in Winnipeg, Manitoba Canada. We have four boys (as you can in our signature) and I have used a Bosch food processor for the past 10 years. The machine is like a work horse, or the energizer bunny, it keeps going and going. I only use a basic recipe with Canola Oil and I throw in a handful of bran as well. I use about 2/3 white flour and 1/3 whole wheat flour. Does anyone have any recipes other than the basic one from the Bosch book I'm using for this machine? Thanks. Vince and Val Surbey Dad and Mom to Christopher 8,(FAE), Timothy 5,(Down Syndrome), Ryan 5,(Microcephalic and possibly FAE), Preston 4,(FAS) ------------------------------ From: Jane Pullin Date: Mon, 19 Feb 1996 09:40:26 -0500 Subject: recipe request I misplaced the recipe for port and blue cheese bread. If someone could kindly send it to me I would be very grateful. Thanks. ------------------------------ From: "Rob Ryerson" Date: Mon, 19 Feb 1996 08:34:17 PST Subject: Burger Buns I retrieved this from the Fat Free archive where I posted it in '94. Didn't know if Linda or Lois would post it, as noted it is from their book. But it is great! It may have been adjusted to eliminate oil and dairy. I've also done variations with molasses and honey for the sugar. Don't know how well they would keep, they never last long enough to find out. - -------------------------- I made these burger/weenie buns last night for dinner. They were great. I put them into my P/C cookbook, Micro Cookbook and did an export for the nutritional analysis. - --> Exported from Micro Cookbook V4 <-- Whole Wheat Burger & Weenie Buns Serves 8 Prep 2:00 Cook :15 Stand :15 Total 2:30 >From the Speciality Bread Section of Bread Machine Magic by Linda Rehberg & Lois Conway 1 cup water 1 each powdered egg substitute 2 cups all-purpose flour 1 cup whole wheat flour 3/4 teaspoon salt 1/4 cup frozen apple juice concentrate 1/4 cup sugar, (or fructose) 3 teaspoons yeast Place all ingredients in bread machine. Select dough cycle, and allow to complete. After machine dough cycle, remove from machine, and place on floured counter or dough board. Gently roll and shape into 12 inch rope. With a sharp knife, divide into 8 pieces for burger buns, or 12 pieces for weenie buns. Shape according to purpose, and place on sprayed baking sheet. Cover and allow to rise for 15 minutes until nearly doubled. Preheat oven to 400 deg. F. Bake for 12 to 15 minutes until golden brown. Remove from oven, and cool on racks. Slice to use. May be frozen for 3 to 4 weeks. Nutrition (per serving): 191 calories Saturated fat 0 g Total Fat 1 g (3% of calories) Protein 5 g (11% of calories) Carbohydrates 41 g (86% of calories) Cholesterol 1 mg Sodium 223 mg Fiber 0 g Iron 1 mg Vitamin A 2 IU Vitamin C 0 mg Alcohol 0 g Source: Bread Machine Magic Page(s): 155 Date Published: 1992 ISBN 0-312-06914-6 (paperback original) - --------------------------- P.S. For those of you who like to have cookbooks of recipes you've seen here, the 7 or 9 grain bread recipe recently posted was originally from Donna R. German's Bread Machine Cookbook IV. For my personal preferences, that was the best of her books, more whole grains. But it sits right next to my copy of Bread Machine Magic............. ------------------------------ From: "R.C. Sagnella" Date: Mon, 19 Feb 96 09:42:38 EST Subject: The Controversy Continues... I hope that no one on this list misunderstands my partiality to making bread "the old fashion way." I fully appreciate the convenience and practicality of bread machines. I am not being critical of those who prefer it. Are there many who make more than two loaves of bread at a time using the ABM? Ron ------------------------------ From: flash gordon md Date: Mon, 19 Feb 1996 09:29:58 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: bread-bakers-digest V6 #72 > In response to the question about whether to buy a 4.5 or 5 qt KitchenAid > mixer, definitely get the 5 qt model. when i was in the market for a mixer not long ago, i spoke to the folks at kitchen aide, specifically asking them how much stronger the motor in the 5 qt mixers were. they told me, to my astonishment, that the motors were *identical* in every way: that in fact the part number for *all* the mixers' motors was the same. in other words, they were interchangeable. so far, i've been happy with my 4.5 qt. mixer, which has never bogged down. of course, i found it used for $90, so i can't complain. i do admit that tilting the unit rather than lowering the bowl can make changing the attachments a little awkward, but i'm still enjoying using it. btw, i gave my old r2d2 unit away not long after getting the kitchen aide. however, now i'm thinking of getting a zoji, since i have less time to spend baking. oh well. ------------------------------ From: Bimini44@aol.com Date: Mon, 19 Feb 1996 11:10:53 -0500 Subject: looking for James Beard Zepher roll recipe A friend used to make wonderful 'zepher rolls' from her Beard on Bread book. Does anyone have it? I may not be saying the name right, but it was a very rich egg dough, made a fragrant golden roll, I could eat my weight in them! And, actually, the first successful hand-made bread recipe I tried was this one. Mine were good, but not as wonderful as this experienced baker produced. Would love to attempt again, now that I have a few 'secrets' under my belt! TIA martha And, to Neil in Guam,,, until you've 'accidentally' hatched out chicks in a basket on your counter, or exploded potatoes while baking them in the oven,, well, you get my drift, not all of us are pros around the kitchen!!! (voice of chicken-experience here) ------------------------------ From: Blanche007@aol.com Date: Mon, 19 Feb 1996 12:57:08 -0500 Subject: sourdoough samples Date: Mon, Feb 19, 1996 1:34 PM EDT From: Blanche007 Subj: re sour dough samples Date: Sun, Feb 18, 1996 10:53 PM EDT From: Blanche007 Subj: Re: bread-bakers-digest V6 #71 To: Blanche007 Note to all the folks who offered to try out my sourdough product: the samples were mailed this past week. I've already heard from a few people. We had over 100 people ask for samples (had to turn down more than 25 late comers). This offer turned out to be a fairly expensive and time consuming undertaking so, I would dearly appreciate your taking the time to try the stuff and let me know what you think. p.s. I put in a sample of the new dough relaxer as well and would love comment about that. For those of you who asked about ingredients - both products are made with real food - without any chemicals or preservatives. Both are Kosher as well. Lora Brody ------------------------------ From: Kerry Ogata Date: Mon, 19 Feb 1996 13:20:21 -0500 Subject: DAK Bread Machine Paddles A friend of mine asked me to post this. She has a DAK bread machine and has lost the paddle. She thinks that DAK is out of business, and doesn't know where to get a replacement paddle. Can anyone here help? (Sorry, but I don't know the model #). I thought I remembered hearing that someone bought out DAK's bread machine line, but I'm not sure. :) Thanks, Kerry ------------------------------ End of bread-bakers-digest V6 #73 ********************************* bread-bakers-digest Sunday, 25 February 1996 Volume 06 : Number 074 Today's Subjects: Bread pan sticking problem Pasta machine vs hand (long) Wheat Grinder Problems with Red Star Yeast Re: bread-bakers-digest V6 #71 Re: bread-bakers-digest V6 #71 Hint for Busy Folks! Pasta Mixes? Hops bread Kitchenaid vs. Cuisinart Sponge Bread and Cold Kitchens bread-bakers-digest V6 #71 Red Star Yeast Re: bread-bakers-digest V6 #71 bagels bread-bakers-digest V6 #72 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Deborah Kirwan Date: Wed, 21 Feb 1996 09:11:12 -0600 (CST) Subject: Bread pan sticking problem I got a bread machine for Christmas, and I just love it! I've made one to two loaves a week--only one dud. However, I'm having more and more trouble getting the bread out of the pan when it's done. I only use plastic implements in the pan; it doesn't look scratched. I use about a tablespoon of oil per loaf (1 lb) as most recipes call for. Is there something I can do to improve the non-stick qualities of the bread pan? I hesitate to try spraying Pam in the pan for fear of gunking up the mechanism that turns the mixing paddle. Any advice? Deb * "In this world there are only two tragedies. kirwan@creighton.edu * One is not getting what one wants, and the other * is getting it." Oscar Wilde ------------------------------ From: MJSpence@aol.com Date: Tue, 20 Feb 1996 21:08:46 -0500 Subject: Pasta Kenneth Sharp asked for a recipe for rice noodles for Asian cuisine and whole grain pastas. I'd be delighted if the group would consider extending its scope to include pastas. I have a Pasta Express machine, which I've enjoyed, even though I don't have the time to use it I'd like. It has without fail produced some lovely things when I have. Here's a rice noodle recipe from "The Ultimate Pasta Machine Cookbook," Tom LaCalamita, Simon & Schuster. "The following recipe can be extruded as thin as angel hair for such dishes as Cantonese Rice noodles with Beef or as wide as linguine for Thai Rice Noodles with Broccoli" Dry Ingredients: 1 3/4 cup bread flour sifted with 1 1/4 cups white rice flour. Liquid Ingredients: 3/4 cup water. Following the instructions in your owner's manual, prepare and set up the pasta machine with an extruder die to make the desired shape of pasta. . . . All ingredients must be at room temperature. Add the dry ingredients to the pasta machine mixing bowl. Switch the pasta machine on. Slowly pour the liquid ingredients through the feed tube. Mix for approximately 3 minutes, or until the dough appears to be coming together in soft, pea-sized crumbs. Following instructions begin to extrude dough, cutting off the first 2 to 3 inches to discard. As pasta begins to come out, gently move it away from machine and cut with a sharp paring knife or scissors at desired lengths. Place on a wire race or clean kitchen cloth. Sprinkle lightly with flour and gently toss with fingers so noodles do not stick together. Let sit for at least 30 minutes before cooking or store for later use." Although this if for a machine, I can't imagine that the same ingredients won't be fine for hand-made pasta. Mitch ------------------------------ From: Crystalle Haynes Date: Tue, 20 Feb 1996 23:51:07 -0800 (PST) Subject: machine vs hand (long) Boy, I'll bet someone is sorry that asked this! I have been following this thread with interest, and have hesitated offering my opinion. Although I agree with what many people have already said (I only go through one or two loaves a week, I am busy, etc), I don't think I've seen a post that reflects why *I* use a machine. So here goes. I grew up with a mom who baked bread by hand - ground her own flour, the whole 9 yards. She made awesome whole-wheat bread. However, it was a whole day - it seemed to take forever! Not only that, but it was always such a big production. Grind the flour, make the bread, knead, rise, punchdown, rise, etc. We had a small kitchen, so other kitchen activity tended to come to a stand-still. There was no other place in the house to let 5 loaves of bread rise, except in the kitchen. So we couldn't really cook or bake until the whole process was over. Anyway, it all seemed too much work. However, I did try my hand at making cinnamon braids and some other stuff, but consistently killed the yeast, or I couldn't get the ambient temperature warm enough for the dough to rise well. I gave up, and for years figured it was a culinary mystery to which I was never going to be privy. I really bummed me out, but I religiously avoided ANYTHING that contained yeast in it. Yeasr later, I bought a bread machine for my boyfriend, who really wanted one. To make a long story short, I dumped the boyfriend and kept the bread machine (he never used it anyway, but I did). I lucked onto the Bread Machine Magic cookbooks, and consistently turned out yummy bread (all the while chanting "Yeast is my friend"). I took the advice of the authors and watched the machine knead the dough, and started to learn how the dough should look and act. I overcame my fear of touching the dough (I thought I would kill the yeast but over-kneading it), and am almost ready to start TRYING to make a loaf or two by hand. The machine has held my hand and taught me that I am not a complete klutz and serial yeast-killer. Now, even if my hand-made bread flops, I know I can still do bread in the machine. I apologize for going on and on - I have nothing but admiration and awe for people who make bread by hand. It seems to me that it is truly an art, as well as an act of love (not to mention time! :). So, maybe I am not as artistic, but I feel privileged to be able to finally be able to make bread myself (with the help of my loveable machine, of course!). BTW, a loaf of 1.5 pound bread only takes 2 1/2 hours on my machine (my machine won't even DO 5 hours!). Thanks for listening! Crystalle crystall@po.eecs.berkeley.edu Berkeley, California (USA) ------------------------------ From: "S. Shimeall" Date: Wed, 21 Feb 1996 14:08:26 -0800 (PST) Subject: Wheat Grinder I would like to purchase a wheat grinder and was hoping for your help. Is Magic Mill the only kind of wheat grinder, or is it just the best? What sources are there (phone numbers, addresses?) for purchasing a grinder? Thanks so much! Priscilla North Bend, WA stephans@u.washington.edu ------------------------------ From: Alan Robert Giblin Date: Tue, 20 Feb 1996 17:56:24 -0800 (PST) Subject: Problems with Red Star Yeast I bought some Red Star yeast at the store because that was all they had. I have made 4 loaves of bread with it and they have all risen badly. I just called Red Star and did the test they gave me and it turned out perfect. It was 1/2 cup very warm water, 1 teaspoon sugar and 2 1/4 teaspoons (1 packet) yeast. Let it sit for 10 minutes. If it rises to the 1 cup mark, the yeast is fine. Any ideas why this jar of yeast won't rise my bread when it passes the test? I used the last jar I had ( the brand with the yellow label) with this bag of flour and it worked just like it should. Kelly ------------------------------ From: LoisO43779@aol.com Date: Mon, 19 Feb 1996 14:40:28 -0500 Subject: Re: bread-bakers-digest V6 #71 Re: adding whole wheat berries to your breads. I am not a bread machine user, but a word of warning about using whole wheat berries. No matter how long you soak them or how soft they get, the ones that end up on the outside surface of your baked bread will again be very hard. Don't break a tooth. I had the experience (didn't break a tooth) but had some mighty tough chewing. ------------------------------ From: BillyFish@aol.com Date: Tue, 20 Feb 1996 13:49:17 -0500 Subject: Re: bread-bakers-digest V6 #71 I guess I am just not atuned to some of the nomenclature used in bread making. Just what is "sponge?" How does it differ from ordinary dough? Is sourdough sponge something different? I hate to be so ignorant on the subject, but I don't want to be to stupid to ask. William Buchman ------------------------------ From: bj29@mirage.skypoint.com (bjjan) Date: Mon, 19 Feb 96 21:53 CST Subject: Hint for Busy Folks! To save time....... Just line up about 5 or 6 ZIP-LOCK type bags on the counter. On the outiside of each bag write the name of ONE of your Favorite Breads. Also write the amount of water and yeast required for that recipe. Fill each baag with the amount of flour, salt, etc. required. Zip the bag shut and pop in your refrigerator or freezer. ....when you are in a rush to make bread, just open a bag, dump the contents into your bread machine, add the water and yeast....set the machine and push start! What could be easier, with less mess?? (It is better is you can plan a bit ahead so you can warm up the flour....like take a bag out the night before you want to use it.... or leave one on the counter and the rest in the freezer) When you get organized, you can have many different kinds on hand....a little variety? ---if the recipe contains oil or honey, no problem, just place it in the middle of the flour along with the other ingredients. Bev in Mn (aka ClayCooker) ------------------------------ From: DIANAR@delphi.com Date: Tue, 20 Feb 1996 21:47:25 -0500 (EST) Subject: Pasta Mixes? Hi all, I enjoy this list so much and have a question. I recently got a couple of boxes of Popeil's Pasta Mixes (5-1 lb. packs per box)at Sam's for only 1.99 a box! I will use them in the pasta maker, but wonder if they can be used for the bread machine, and if so, what enhancers might be necessary? The mixes are labeled "fancy durum wheat" as the main ingredient, with assorted seasonings. Thanks! Diana ------------------------------ From: Kay Klier Date: Tue, 20 Feb 1996 12:54:41 -0800 (PST) Subject: Hops bread While enjoying some excellent breads in restaurants this weekend, we started talking about favorite breads. Steve mentioned "hops bread" a bread made by lots of bakeries in Trinidad, where he grew up. Says he thinks it doesn't have anything to do with the plant hops (used for beer flavoring)-- it was a small, round loaf of rather crusty white bread, perhaps 6" in diameter. Seems to have some relationship to french or italian yeast breads, but has a finer grain than most. Anyone have a recipe? Or a method? Or should I just tell him he needs to send me down to the islands to learn how properly? ;-) - ---- Kay Klier klier@fern.com ------------------------------ From: Cathi Boronkay Date: Tue, 20 Feb 1996 11:53:46 -0800 (PST) Subject: Kitchenaid vs. Cuisinart I am now trying to decide between these two machines. I guess the question is, how do they compare in what else they can do. Anyone have an opinion on overall how useful these are? How did you decide which one to buy? Thanks, Cathi ------------------------------ From: Veronica Callinan Date: Mon, 19 Feb 1996 21:45:58 -0500 Subject: Sponge Bread and Cold Kitchens Hello all! I'm new to the list - from Toronto, Ontario, Canada. I tried baking bread years ago, and the results were beautiful, golden door stoppers. Completely inedible! I started using a breadmaker, 3 or 4 years ago, and the results have been fabulous! My husband loves homemade bread. I sometimes make the dough in the machine, then form and bake it in the oven. Regardless of where the baking is done - the loaves are eaten quickly and completely! I want to thank Bev in MN for your suggestion for timed dough. Your explanation wasn't confusing at all. To Pat Hewitt, I'd be very interested in your light whole wheat bread recipe. 1) The discussion on sponge bread has really pricked my interest. Kay Klier, wrote: "basically, you just put half the flour (or so -- it should be about like brownie batter in consistency) in the first rise, allow the gluten to develop, stir the sponge down, and add the rest of the flour for the second rise." In my breadmaker, adding flour after the knead cycle won't mix the ingredients properly. The second rise is preceded by a very minimal knead - 1 or 2 turns of the paddle at most. Are you talking about machine baking, or do you mean by hand? 2) Comments on gluten flour. The temperature in our kitchen varies greatly, from summer to winter. Timed bread didn't used to rise in winter, or on very hot summer nights. We turn the heat down at night in winter, so the kitchen gets chilly. Then I started adding gluten flour to the mix. By mixing 1/4 cup gluten flour to 1 cup all-purpose, the bread rises every time. So the mix is 20% gluten flour. I hope this helps others who have the same problem. Keep on baking!!!vc ------------------------------ From: BreadMagician@prodigy.com (MRS LINDA L REHBERG) Date: Wed, 21 Feb 1996 00:42:46 EST Subject: bread-bakers-digest V6 #71 To Bonnie: You requested yeast-free, sugar-free recipes. Here's one from a very good book called EASY BREAD MAKING FOR SPECIAL DIETS by Nicolette Dumke. It's made on the Quick Bread cycle of a bread machine but I'm sure you could also adapt it for the oven: NO YEAST WHITE BREAD 3 cups all-purpose flour 3 tsp baking powder 1/2 tsp salt 1/4 cup oil 1 1/4 cups water There are several yeast free recipes in the book. I think Barnes & Noble is now carrying it. You might also find it in your library. To Marta: Thanks for sharing the web site addresses. Here are a couple more: ww.fatfree.com/recipes/breads- machine/ and www.webcom.com/~stannet/bread/ To Emily: The makers of vital wheat gluten usually recommend 1 1/2 tsp per cup of flour for whole grain breads. We find that works well with the white breads on those rare occasions when it's needed but we double that amount for whole grain breads. To Reeva: You can soak wheat and rye berries overnight or place 1 cup berries in 3 cups of boiling water, cover, reduce heat, and simmer for 1 hour. (If you like your berries with a little more crunch to them, use 2:1 water/berries and simmer just 1/2 hour) You might want to decrease the liquid in your recipe by 1/8 - 1/4 cup and watch the dough as it kneads. If it appears dry and stiff, add more liquid 1 T at a time till a smooth ball of dough forms that is slightly tacky to the touch. Linda Rehberg, co-author BREAD MACHINE MAGIC and BMM BOOK OF HELPFUL HINTS ------------------------------ From: David Kingsley Date: Tue, 20 Feb 1996 09:48:48 -0500 Subject: Red Star Yeast Hello! We have been a subscribers for only a short time on this digest and have realized that there are many who enjoy the beaking of bread both by hand and with machines. I have gained some knowledge (in reading the posts here) that are difficult to come by anywhere else. My dad who is going on 92 years of age, bakes about two loaves a week in his Welbilt. He really enjoys this pastime and his output is enjoyed by everyone who happens to be lucky enough to sample his breads. We have been trying to find the address for Red Star yeast products. The local stores in the area don't always carry it. The information that we have shows that the company is located in Wisconsin. Would any of you avid baking fans kindly inform us as to where we can write to so that we can mail order it? >From snowy Massachusetts.......David K. davidk@pcix.com ------------------------------ From: BillyFish@aol.com Date: Tue, 20 Feb 1996 20:26:43 -0500 Subject: Re: bread-bakers-digest V6 #71 I guess I am just not atuned to some of the nomenclature used in bread making. Just what is "sponge?" How does it differ from ordinary dough? Is sourdough sponge something different? I hate to be so ignorant on the subject, but I don't want to be to stupid to ask. William Buchman ------------------------------ From: Gerard_Mcmahon@ftdetrck-ccmail.army.mil Date: Wed, 21 Feb 96 16:01:49 EST Subject: bagels Hi All, As the title of the books says these really are the best. Pretty simple too. Have fun, Gerry * Exported from MasterCook II * Apricot bagel Recipe By : The Best Bagels are made at home Dona Z. Meilach Serving Size : 15 Preparation Time :0:00 Categories : Bagels Machine Yeast Amount Measure Ingredient -- Preparation Method - -------- ------------ -------------------------------- 1 1/8 cups water 2 teaspoons orange extract -- optional 1 tablespoon olive oil 2 tablespoons malt powder -- or honey / sugar 1 teaspoon salt 3 1/3 cups bread flour 1 tablespoon wheat gluten -- optional 2 teaspoons yeast 3/4 cup dried apricots -- diced Place ingredients in the bread machine in the order listed. Use the dough setting. Add the apricots 5 minutes before the end of the kneading phase or work into the dough before shaping. If you don't have a dough setting stop the machine after the rises. Prepare the baking sheets or use nonstick sheets. Remove dough from the machine, punch it down, and roll it out into a rectangle about 14 x 18. Divide into equal pieces and shape into bagel form or use a cutter. Place the bagels on the sheets and let them rise again. I put them in the oven to provide a draft free location. This rise can be anywhere from 20 minutes to 4 hours depending on what else is going on in your life. Fill a 4 to 6 qt soup pot with water 3 to 4 " deep. You can add 2 T of malt syrup, honey, sugar or non-diastatic malt powder. Get the water to boiling. Preheat the oven to 400. Drop the bagels one at a time into the boiling water. Boil only 3 or 4 at a time so they don't crowd. Simmer each side for a minute and return to the baking sheet. Add glazes or toppings as desired. Bake just below the middle of a preheated 400 degree oven. The book calls for 20 to 25 minutes. I usually start at 15 minutes for the 1st sheet and less for the second. These are best eaten while they are still warm. They can be frozen - you may want to slice them first so you can defost them in the toaster. - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Serving Ideas : for peach bagels sub dried peaches for the apricots NOTES : I use orange oil instead of the orange extract. These are really excellent. * Exported from MasterCook II * Banana Nut Wheat bagel Recipe By : Serving Size : 15 Preparation Time :0:00 Categories : Bagels Machine Yeast Amount Measure Ingredient -- Preparation Method - -------- ------------ -------------------------------- 1 cup water 1 banana 1 tablespoon olive oil 2 tablespoons malt powder 1/4 cup cornmeal 1 cup wheat flour, whole-grain 2 1/3 cups bread flour 1 tablespoon wheat gluten 2 1/2 teaspoons yeast 3/4 cup walnuts - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - * Exported from MasterCook II * Hawaiian bagels Recipe By : The Best Bagels are made at home Dona Z. Meilach Serving Size : 15 Preparation Time :0:00 Categories : Bagels Machine Yeast Amount Measure Ingredient -- Preparation Method - -------- ------------ -------------------------------- 1 1/8 cups water 1 teaspoon coconut extract -- optional 1 tablespoon olive oil 2 tablespoons malt powder -- or honey / sugar 1 teaspoon salt 3 1/3 cups bread flour 1 tablespoon wheat gluten -- optional 2 teaspoons yeast 1/2 cup dried pineapple -- diced 5/8 cup dried coconut -- shredded or flaked Place ingredients in the bread machine in the order listed. Add the pineapple and coconut 5 minutes before the end of the Kneading phase or work into the dough before shaping. Use the dough setting. Or stop the machine after the rises. Prepare the baking sheets or use nonstick sheets. Remove dough from the machine, punch it down, and roll it out into a rectangle about 14 x 18. Divide into equal pieces and shape into bagel form or use a cutter. Place the bagels on the sheets and let them rise again. I put them in the oven to provide a draft free location. This rise can be anywhere from 20 minutes to 4 hours depending on what else is going on in your life. Fill a 4 to 6 qt soup pot with water 3 to 4 " deep. You can add 2 T of malt syrup, honey, sugar or non-diastatic malt powder. Get the water to boiling. Preheat the oven to 400. Drop the bagels one at a time into the boiling water. Boil only 3 or 4 at a time so they don't crowd. Simmer each side for a minute and return to the baking sheet. Add glazes or toppings as desired. Bake just below the middle of a preheated 400 degree oven. The book calls for 20 to 25 minutes. I usually start at 15 minutes for the 1st sheet and less for the second. These are best eaten while they are still warm. They can be frozen - you may want to slice them first so you can defost them in the toaster. - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - NOTES : These are really excellent. ------------------------------ From: BreadMagician@prodigy.com (MRS LINDA L REHBERG) Date: Wed, 21 Feb 1996 01:26:03 EST Subject: bread-bakers-digest V6 #72 To Lorna: You asked why it takes longer for sweet, rich bread doughs to rise. Here's a very non-chemical answer: Compare it to you sitting down to a moderate meal, say a stir-fry and rice dinner compared to a 12- course banquet with lots of rich, heavy goodies for dessert. Getting up from the table after the latter meal, the best way to describe how you would feel is sluggish. That's basically what happens to those little yeasties, too. To Debbie: Here's our favorite hamburger bun recipe: Title: WHOLE-WHEAT HAMBURGER AND HOT DOG BUNS Keywords: BREADS, BREAD MACHINE, BREAD MACHINE MAGIC These are definitely five-star hamburger buns. You'll never go back to the store-bought version once you've tried these. 1 1/2-pound 1-pound 1 cup water 5/8 cup water 1 egg 1 egg 2 cups all-purpose or 1 1/3 cups all-purpose or unbleached flour unbleached flour 1 cup whole-wheat flour 2/3 cup whole-wheat flour 3/4 teaspoon salt 1/2 teaspoon salt 1/4 cup shortening 3 tablespoons shortening 1/4 cup sugar 3 tablespoons sugar 3 teaspoons RED STAR 3 teaspoons RED STAR active dry yeast active dry yeast Place all ingredients in bread pan, select "dough" setting, and press "start". Once dough has risen long enough, the machine will beep. Turn off bread machine, remove bread pan, and turn out dough onto a floured counter top or cutting board. Gently roll and shape the dough into a 12-inch rope. For 1 1/2-pound: With a sharp knife, divide dough into 8 pieces for hamburger buns or 12 pieces for hot dog buns. For 1-pound: With a sharp knife, divide dough into 6 pieces for hamburger buns or 8 pieces for hot dog buns. Grease a cookie sheet. Roll pieces of dough into balls and flatten for hamburger buns or shape into 6-inch long rolls for hot dog buns. Place on prepared cookie sheet. Cover and let rise in warm oven 10 to 15 minutes until almost doubled. (Hint: To warm up oven slightly, turn oven on "warm" for two minutes, then turn it off, place covered dough in oven to rise.) Preheat oven to 400~F. Bake 12 to 15 minutes until golden brown. Remove from oven and cool on racks. When ready to use, split buns in half horizontally. These will keep in a plastic bag in the freezer for 3 to 4 weeks. 1 1/2-pound yields 8 hamburger or 12 hot dog buns 1-pound yields 6 hamburger or 8 hot dog buns From: "Bread Machine Magic" by Linda Rehberg, Lois Conway ------------------------------ End of bread-bakers-digest V6 #74 ********************************* [THERE WAS NO ISSUE # 75 IT WAS SACRIFICED TO MAJORDOMO SO IT WAS REPLACED BY # 76] ********************************* bread-bakers-digest Wednesday, 28 February 1996 Volume 06 : Number 076 Today's Subjects: Asiago Cheese Bread Re: vegan bread (no eggs, no dairy) Homestyle brick ovens -- information requested hochey pucks or rolls? Re: ABM vs. hand method Lost Zoji book tortillas Round loaves Australian bread, known as Damper COuldn't get through... ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: bbriscoe@infolink.morris.mn.us (Bonnie Briscoe) Date: Wed, 21 Feb 1996 23:47:12 -0600 Subject: Asiago Cheese Bread Asiago Cheese Bread 8 ounces water 1 large egg 1 1/4 teaspoons salt 1 tablespoon sugar 3 ounces finely shredded Asiago cheese (1 cup lightly packed) 1 ounce shredded Romano or Parmesan (generous 1/3 cup) 1/2 cup yellow cornmeal 2 3/4 cups bread flour or unbleached flour 2 teaspoons active dry yeast Place all ingredients in pan of bread machine in order listed, or in the order recommended for your machine. Set controls for Basic bread with medium crust and start machine. Makes one 1 1/2-pound loaf. I created this bread in response to a recent request on this list, and also because I wanted to make a cheese bread using some of the excellent Asiago cheese that we sell at our food co-op. This bread has an *absolutely wonderful* aroma while it's baking. I've made it twice and it has already become my husband's new all-time favorite bread. It's definitely worth the extra effort to use freshly grated cheeses. The cornmeal adds some body and helps make a crisper crust, but if you can't eat corn, leave it out and add more flour (start with 1/4 cup flour and add more if needed). Enjoy! Bonnie Briscoe ===================================================================== Bonnie Briscoe - bbriscoe@infolink.morris.mn.us Freelance writing, editing, desktop publishing * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * Language is all that separates us from the lower animals-- and from the bureaucrats. ===================================================================== ------------------------------ From: "Alison Hendon" Date: Wed, 21 Feb 1996 20:17:49 -0500 Subject: Re: vegan bread (no eggs, no dairy) To the requestor for vegan bread recipes: I too make non-dairy, no egg breads because of my partner's allergies. In fact, using the bread machine (I have tendinitis) means that I'm sure about all the ingredients. I use Ener-G powdered egg replacer, reconstituted, and powdered soy milk. Sometimes I use liquid soy milk but I don't have it on hand all the time. I use Fleischmann's unsalted margarine because it's lactose free. You have to watch out for that whey!! My favorite recipe is from Bread Machine Magic by Linda Rehberg & Lois Conway. Adapted for vegans (and allergic people), it reads like this: Linda's Easy Potato Bread (1 1/2 lb. loaf) 3 c. bread flour 1/4 c. instant potato flakes 1 1/2 t. salt 1 1/2 T. sugar 3 heaping T. powdered soy milk 1 1/2 t. margarine 2 t. yeast 3/4 c. water plus 3/8 cup water (1 c. plus 2 T. water) plus more water for Welbilt/Dak (3 T?) Bake on light crust. I hope it was ok to post this. In general I just substitute the soy milk powder for milk. I've also made the Basic Sweet Roll dough very successfully (great Jim's Cinnamon Rolls!). Linda & Lois's other book (whose name I don't have quite right), it's something like Bread Machine Magic Hints and was just reissued with even more hints, talks about substitutions for allergies, special diets, etc. Alison Hendon Alison Hendon ahendon@amanda.dorsai.org "Though my soul may set in darkness, It will rise in perfect light, I have loved the stars too fondly To be fearful of the night...." ------------------------------ From: "Angie Klidzejs" Date: Thu, 22 Feb 96 13:22:25 CDT Subject: Homestyle brick ovens -- information requested Hello fellow bakers: As I've learned more and more about bread, I've found that I'm becoming more and more interested in reducing the baking process to its most rudimentary forms. Four years ago I was thoroughly incapable of baking bread from scratch -- I ended up with grain-based equivalents of concrete blocks. Then I got a bread machine, which served as "training wheels" (as baker and cookbook author Dan Leader would describe it). I've graduated to using a KitchenAid mixer for making dough, and using a grain mill to grind my own flour, and am presently quite content with them. However, I'm interested in more than my electric oven can do for my breads. Does anyone on this list have experience with, or knowledge of, baking bread in brick ovens? I don't mean the commerical variety. I'm seeking information on building and using homestyle and homesize brick or stone ovens. Is this something a person can build and keep out in the yard? How is it constructed? How is it used? Where can I find technical plans and information? I destroy baking stones pretty easily and don't want to invest in more of them. I think that clay flower-pot saucers may be okay, but their use is limited. (My house isn't air-conditioned, and baking indoors during the summer is out of the question.) I would appreciate any and all information that people can suggest. Thank you. Angie Klidzejs Internet: a-klid@maroon.tc.umn.edu Accountant Department of Horticultural Science University of Minnesota 305 Alderman Hall 1970 Folwell Avenue Telephone: (612) 624-3795 Saint Paul, MN 55108 U.S.A. Fax: (612) 624-4941 ------------------------------ From: Susan Petusky Date: Fri, 23 Feb 1996 11:15:33 -0500 Subject: hochey pucks or rolls? Hi all. I'm coming out of lurkdom to ask a silly question-but I'm genuinely serious. Is it possible that my body gives off something that will make bread unable to rise? The reason I ask is I have a bread machine that makes great bread as long as I don't touch the dough. This includes checking the ball when I'm going to leave it in the machine to bake. My rolls are horrible and any loaf I've tried is sucky ,too. I have the same problem with cookies too. They are supposed to be soft and chewy but they are hard and crunchy. Also, if a plant even sees me walk by it imediately dies. (Slight exaggeration.). Really, if I touch it it is not long for this world. I really want to make those luscious kaiser rolls like you can buy in a deli. Does anyone know how to make these? I'm gonna keep on trying all your suggestions. Maybe I can convince my husband to do the dough handling-hmmm < YO, HONEY.... Thanks Susan ------------------------------ From: Deborah Kirwan Date: Fri, 23 Feb 1996 13:24:09 -0600 (CST) Subject: Re: ABM vs. hand method "My question is, where is the advantage in using a bread machine?" To add my $.02: For years before I worked outside the home, I made all my family's bread. I loved to make bread. I always argued that it wasn't hard at all, and in fact didn't even take that much time. Then I started working outside the home. For the last 15 years or so, I have hardly ever made bread. True, it doesn't take much time actually to make the bread, *but* you have to be ready for the next step when the bread is ready. This means you have to be available when the dough needs to be punched down, available when it needs to be shaped to go into the bread pan, available to turn on the oven when it has finished rising, available to take it out of the oven when done. The entire process takes several hours. It just never seemed to fit into my busy schedule. Now I have a bread machine. I cannot believe how wonderful it is. I make bread a couple times a week. In five minutes I can put the ingredients into the bread pan. I then set the machine for the time I want the bread to be ready. I can go to work, go to bed, go out to the store or to a meeting. I have nothing else to do but eat the bread when it's ready! As someone else mentioned, to me it's also an advantage that I only get one loaf at a time (in fact, I purposely bought a machine that only makes a small loaf). There are only two of us to eat it, and I prefer my bread fresh. So while I understand the therapeutic value of making bread by hand, I wouldn't give up my bread machine. Without it, we'd be back to having no home-baked bread at all. Deb * "In this world there are only two tragedies. kirwan@creighton.edu * One is not getting what one wants, and the other * is getting it." Oscar Wilde ------------------------------ From: "Molison, Ann" Date: Fri, 23 Feb 1996 11:50:58 -0800 Subject: Lost Zoji book Hi bread bakers. I received a Zoji (15) this Christmas from my husband. (He didn't know about the order by phone and thus paid dearly for it.) Last weekend, after using my instruction manual which gives recipes, I put it down and fear I must have done so on top of the Sunday paper and now it is gone. Does any one have a suggestion as to how I could replace it? I love many of the recipes in it and have found they are as reliable as any I have found in books I have borrowed or taken out of the library. Thanks to the wonderful contributors to this list, I have picked up a few recipes and tried them with good and often great success. One problem - however. Every time I use molasses my breads don't raise! They are half their size and awful. The molasses I have is dark and I think the brand is Bear Rabbit (or something like that). (I have never been into brand names and can't remember one from another.) As I am new to bread making - I follow the recipes to the nine and always measure carefully. Does anyone have any thoughts or suggestions. Thanks. Ann Molison Ames, IA 50014 ---------- ------------------------------ From: jguevara@spin.com.mx (Jenka Guevara) Date: Fri, 23 Feb 1996 18:57:02 -0600 (CST) Subject: tortillas About flour tortillas. Here in Mexico the only ones I know have lard. But ... I have started making pita bread, as I stated STARTED I have made some changes, and what I have now is: I use my breadmaker to make the dough of normal bread, more whole wheat than plain flour then I use some extra white flour to make small balls, which later I flatten out with a rolling pin (?) then comes the trick, for I have tried various ways, but last night I put them in the oven, a recipe I had said 3 mins each side, no way the first side was like 10 mins, it is till they blow up (more or less nicely) and then 3 mins the other side. What came out was not real flour tortillas, but was very good, first warm they were good, and now cold they are nice and crispy. My husband really enjoyed them. For the dough I used: (more or less on the quantities) 1 cup white flour 2 cups whole wheat 1 teaspoon yeast 1 cup sour dough 1 tablespoon honey 1 cup water and then watch it if you need more water or more flour By the way I use these same things and quantities to make my bread. In the bread I add various things, for instance caraway seeds, or garlic, or raisins, whatever I feel like The bread always comes out good. So this is my always recipe for bread or dough. Good luck if you try it Jenka PS As you can see my bread contains no salt or oil in any kind ********************************* Jenka Guevara American School Foundation Mexico City jguevara@spin.com.mx ------------------------------ From: "The Old Bean" Date: Fri, 23 Feb 1996 18:12:15 -8pst Subject: Round loaves Perhaps someone has struggled with the problem of flat loaves also. When I go to make a round loaf of bread it tends to spread out more than rise up. I end up with a loaf 3 inches tall and 10 inches or more across. Slightly reducing the liquid hasn't helped any. I have noticed that the bakery at our local grocery store makes loaves of sourdough that are almost round! Would that I could make these nice round loaves.... If anyone has some tips please let me know... Thanks, - -Rob- ------------------------------ From: MikeMayo@eworld.com Date: Sat, 24 Feb 1996 10:26:59 -0800 Subject: Australian bread, known as Damper In my 8-year-old son's class at elementary school each kid gets to bring in, when it is their assigned week to do so, a sample of bread from some specific region of the world, preferably with some explanation. Being three parts New Zealander myself, and since we visited Australia and N.Z. last year, I thought it would be good to do bread from that region. While browsing the Web I came across a Perth (Australia) restaurant, with an email address, so wrote to them explaining the problem and asking if they could send me a recipe for Damper, which is the name given to a variety of bread cooked by outback travellers in the ashes of a camp fire. The name derives from the word "damper" meaning something that satisfies appetite, as in a snack. Here's Terry's response to that email I sent..... (The bread I made using the DAMPER 1 recipe, using Wicked Pete's Ale, and whole wheat flour with some baking powder mixed in, tasted really good) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ - -------------- From: terry@netfx.com.au (Terry Lewis) To: MikeMayo@eworld.com DAMPER 1 provided by Craig - executive chef at Danekas Cafe Restaurant. ( in Perth, Australia ) Ingredients: 2 cups self raising flour pinch salt 1 teaspoon sugar approx. 1/2 cup water or beer Method: Sift flour, salt and sugar; mix in enough water (or beer) until a dough forms; knead 5-10 minutes; mould into round form; score across top of dough with a sharp knife; dust with a little flour and bake in a hot (180 C) until golden. DAMPER 2 bushies recipe! Take one bag of flour and one can of beer, mix thoroughly and bake until done! Hope the damper turns out right and the kids enjoy this little touch of Oz! :-) Cheers Terry Terry Lewis NetFX Internet Services - ------------------------------------------------------- ( Terry wrote, later, that the recipe is said to work only with Australian beer! ) - ------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ From: CHALON@VENUS.TWU.EDU (Grace Chalon) Date: Tue, 20 Feb 1996 12:02:07 -0800 Subject: COuldn't get through... Hi Joan, I read your note about not being able to get bulk yeast at Sam's. I live in Denton, and USED TO work in Las Colinas, so I shopped at the Sam's on Northwest Highway. They always had yeast. Last week, my neighbor was heading to Sam's in Lewisville, and asked if I needed anything. (We sometimes split large packages of things.) I asked her to look for yeast. She said there were only 3 left on the shelf; she bought one for us to split. 2 pounds (2 packages, each a pound) cost around $3.60. - - Grace Chalon ------------------------------ End of bread-bakers-digest V6 #76 ********************************* bread-bakers-digest Saturday, 2 March 1996 Volume 06 : Number 077 Today's Subjects: Admin Notes Re: Tupperware Bread Storage Keepers Re: bread-bakers-digest V6 #73 Re:Port & Blue Cheese Bread Re: bread-bakers-digest V6 #74 Lora Brody's Sourdough Re: bread-bakers-digest V6 #73 Web Bread sites Re:Kitchenaid vs. Cuisinart Re: bread-bakers-digest V6 #73 Red Star Yeast Feb.5 inquiry about potato rolls DAK paddle pita bread bread-bakers-digest V6 #73 Texture improvement for corn bread. Re: bread-bakers-digest V6 #74 nuggethead of the week award Asiago Cheese Bread Homestyle brick ovens -- information requested Tupperware Bread Storage Keepers Red Star Yeast RE: bread-bakers-digest V6 #74 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Reggie Dwork Date: Sat, 02 Mar 1996 00:49:58 -0800 Subject: Admin Notes Hi everyone, We received 11 wonderful posts on the Zephyr Buns by James Beard...we decided to save some space in the digest and eliminated 9 of them. We left 2 in that were in different formats so if you have recipe software you can (hopefully) import them into what you are using. Also, last weekend we put out 3 issues of the digest...well, we sent 3 issues in to make up the digest and only 2 actually got sent out over the weekend (#'s 73 & 74). We found out later in the week that the 3rd issue didn't get sent out. So we re-sent it and because majordomo ate the original #75 the re-send was numbered 76. So, there is no #75...sorry if this creates a problem for anyone. Thanks to everyone who sent in their favorite books. We hope to start the compiling of these soon. If you have any more to send in please feel free to do so...it is never too late. Thanks, Reggie & Jeff - -- Reggie & Jeff Dwork Owners, bread-bakers, eat-lf, otbf (OverTheBackFence) Mailing Lists For info write or ------------------------------ From: cmathew@iadfw.net (Craig & Joan Mathew) Date: Sun, 25 Feb 1996 05:48:23 -0600 (CST) Subject: Re: Tupperware Bread Storage Keepers >Date: Mon, 19 Feb 1996 07:53:10 -0500 >Subject: Tupperware Bread Storage Keepers > >Also, is there a source where one can get the keeper without particpating in >one of those "loathsome" Tupperware parties? Yes. The word is "Rubbermaid"... :) You can get these keepers at many discount stores, like Target, K-Mart, Venture, even supermarkets... In my area these products often go on sale...such as a "50% off ALL Rubbermaid products" !! I use a lot of Rubbermaid in my house...for all kinds of food storage, bread storage, holding nuts, bolts, pencils, pens, thumb tacks, paper clips, you-name-it... very cheap when you get them on sale like this... Joan ------------------------------ From: bj29@mirage.skypoint.com (bjjan) Date: Sun, 25 Feb 96 07:15 CST Subject: Re: bread-bakers-digest V6 #73 Roger Devine asked for a Lefse recipe! I taught Lefse Making for years, but my very favorite of all was this one: **STATE FAIR Winning LEFSE** 8 Cups Russet POTATOES 1/2 Cup HEAVY CREAM 8 Tbls OLEO or BUTTER 1 Tbls SALT 1 Tbls SUGAR (about) 3-1/2 Cups FLOUR* add 1 C/see below Rice POTATOES while hot. Add CREAM, melted BUTTER, SALT, and SUGAR. Cool to room temperature. Refrig overnight Add 1 C.* Flour to 1/2 the Potato mixture Knead together well. After rolling/baking 1st half, Do the same to the saved 2nd half Add 1* Cup of the FLOUR to it Use remaining* FLOUR for rolling lefse. Don't use too much FLOUR for rolling. Roll mixture into thin pieces Bake on Lefse Grill **I think the "sugar" in the recipe is what makes it successful. I seems to be the one ingredient that isn't found in a hundred other similar lefse recipes. It rolls like a dream... As you know it isn't easy to roll up "mashed potatoes" without having them fall apart! If you want other Lefse recipes?? Bev in Mn ------------------------------ From: bj29@mirage.skypoint.com (bjjan) Date: Sun, 25 Feb 96 07:26 CST Subject: Re:Port & Blue Cheese Bread Jane Pullin asked for a Port and Blue Cheese Bread Recipe. I think that one is found in the Electric Bread Book however my cookbooks are in "never-never" land at the moment. We are moving so all my books are packed in boxes and are "someplace"?? Here's a 1# recipe I had in my Mega collection that might due until someone else can find the 1-1/2# recipe for her....Bev in Mn BLUE CHEESE AND PORT BREAD - 1# loaf size 2/3 c Water 2 c White bread flour 1 tb Sugar 1 ts Salt 2 ts Butter 2 tb Port red wine 1/4 c Blue cheese 1/4 c Coursley chopped walnuts 2 1/2 tb Applesauce 1 1/2 ts Yeast (active Dry) ------------------------------ From: bj29@mirage.skypoint.com (bjjan) Date: Sun, 25 Feb 96 07:49 CST Subject: Re: bread-bakers-digest V6 #74 David K wanted the address for Red Star Yeast. In the back of the Bread Machine Magic book of Helpful hints it lists: Universal Foods Corporation 433 East Michigan Street P.O. Box 737 Milwaukee, WI 93201 phone: 1-800-445-4746 sells: Red Star Active Dry Yeast, Quick Rise Yeast, and Instant Yeast in bulk packages! Bev in Mn ------------------------------ From: wmathews@falcon.liunet.edu Date: Sun, 25 Feb 1996 09:37:44 +22311408 (EST) Subject: Lora Brody's Sourdough I tried Lora Brody's sourdough bread the day I received her generous gift. It made great sourdough I thought (but what does a NewYorker know about sourdough). What did you SD aficionados think? I want to say hello to Sheryl, who introduced me to this entertaining and enlightening list. Thanks, S, hope to see you soon. Walter Mathews ------------------------------ From: charyk@inforamp.net (Field of Roses) Date: Sun, 25 Feb 1996 09:49:13 -0500 Subject: Re: bread-bakers-digest V6 #73 For Jean: Thought you might find this interesting: Linda Charyk >Cranberry-Orange Bread > >Basic white bread recipe for your breadmaker >Replace the water with orange juice >Add one extra tablespoon sugar >Add 2/3 cup dried sweetened cranberries >Add 1 tsp dried orange peel > >I use these proportions for a 1 1/2 lb loaf, so you >may want to adjust for a smaller or larger loaf. > >It's a special treat for Thanksgiving or other >holiday dinners. Or try it toasted with cream >cheese for breakfast! ------------------------------ From: bj29@mirage.skypoint.com (bjjan) Date: Sun, 25 Feb 96 07:42 CST Subject: Web Bread sites Linda Rehberg was kind enough to send me some "bread sites" . There seem to be so many of us who "are surfing the net" these days that I thought maybe you might want to see some more sites that I have checked out from the list she gave me. http://www.coloradosprings-travel.com/~dahasher/Bread_Machine.html http://www.honors.indiana.edu/~veggie/Food/Bread/ This one has 29 Bread recipes...I copied them all last night..whew! http://www.webcom.com/~stannet/bread/ (just mentioned in digest) This one offers a newsletter for $12. http://agriculture.com/contents/sf/food/breadrec.html This one has recipes from Bread Machine Bounty http://www.seanet.com/HTML/Vendors/spent/mixes.html This one only tells aobut their Spent Grain Baking Co. bread mixes http://www.proaxis.com/~pudljmpr/webbread.htm (no "l" on the end as most do) This one is Weber's Bread Pages with some Recipes http://www.fatfree.com/recipes/breads-machine/ This one is FULL of bread machine recipes...many, many, many of them! Bev in Mn ------------------------------ From: Stacy Hansen Date: Sun, 25 Feb 1996 10:56:10 -0800 Subject: Re:Kitchenaid vs. Cuisinart Hello, I am totally new to this list so hope I'm not jumping in too early. This is in response to Cathi's question: I have both machines. Like several others I used to make all of our bread from scratch - beginning with grinding the various grains. My husband took over that job when we purchased a bread machine a few years ago. I think your decision is going to depend on your most prevalent needs. I still use our Kitchenaid with the grinder attachment to grind the wheat, rye, etc. It is also a great way to cut down on the time spent making bread by "hand". It does a great job with kneading. It is an incredibly durable machine (I've had mine for at least 15 years now and it's been through a lot). We also occasionally use the pasta attachment. Our Cuisinart just didn't make quite as nice a bread (maybe it wasn't the machines fault). But, it can do things that the Kitchenaid can't (though the Kitchenaid can do many of the same things if you have its attachments. A blender can also do many of the same things a food processor can.) Personally, if you can only purchase one machine right now I would say go with the Kitchenaid. Stacy ------------------------------ From: Blanche007@aol.com Date: Sun, 25 Feb 1996 11:48:56 -0500 Subject: Re: bread-bakers-digest V6 #73 Re DAK paddle - I have a machine that no longer works - was going to junk it - - I'd be happy to send the paddle to your friend. ------------------------------ From: Bryce Hodgeman Date: Sun, 25 Feb 1996 18:22:08 -0600 Subject: Red Star Yeast The address for Red Star Yeast: P.O. Box 737, Milwaukee, WI 53201-0737 or call 1-800-445-4746. Julie Hodgeman ------------------------------ From: Cynthia Tindall-Cox Date: Sun, 25 Feb 1996 14:35:43 -0600 Subject: Feb.5 inquiry about potato rolls I am new to the list. When this was sent I requested to be added. Wendy L. May You asked for a potato roll recipe. This is from my hometown recipe book. I have not tried it personally yet, but my grandmother and I have made kolache's with potato dough and they are great! I do not have a bread machine so I do it all by hand. Potato Refrigerator Rolls Mrs. Elmer Livingston 1 1/2 c warm water (110-115) 1 pkg yeast 2/3 c sugar 1 1/2 tsp salt 2/3 c soft shortening 2 eggs 1 c lukewarm mashed potatoes 7 - 7 1/2 c flour In bowl, dissolve yeast in water. Stir in sugar, salt, shortening, eggs,and potatoes. Mix flour in until dough is easy to handle. Turn onto lightly floured board. Knead until smooth and elastic. Place greased side up in greased bowl. Cover with damp cloth, place in refrigerator. About 2 hrs. before baking, shape dough into rolls. Cover and let rise until double. 1 1/2-2 hrs. Heat oven to 400. Bake 12-15 min. ------------------------------ From: LeGal0000@aol.com Date: Sun, 25 Feb 1996 20:44:50 -0500 Subject: DAK paddle If DAK is truly out of business, try calling your local appliance repair facility. Many times, they will have out-of-stock items. It's my understanding that the DAK and Welbilt parts may be interchangeable. Try calling WELBILT at 1-516-747-9595 - that is their Appliance Parts Dept number. Good luck! Brenda ------------------------------ From: jguevara@spin.com.mx (Jenka Guevara) Date: Sun, 25 Feb 1996 19:52:53 -0600 (CST) Subject: pita bread After much trying I got them all to blow up, they tasted good. Some stayed longer in the oven, and my husband liked them crunchy, a sort of cookie. He now even warms some up, too long, in the microwave, and gets the crunchy ones. I used my normal bread dough, and used the ABM to make the dough. Then more flour was needed to be able to make the balls and flatten them. I left them like half an hour before putting them in the oven. If you are interested in the complete recipe let me know and I will post it with pleasure. Jenka ********************************* Jenka Guevara American School Foundation Mexico City jguevara@spin.com.mx ------------------------------ From: BreadMagician@prodigy.com (MRS LINDA L REHBERG) Date: Sun, 25 Feb 1996 22:25:15 EST Subject: bread-bakers-digest V6 #73 To Martha: Here's the Zephyr Roll recipe you requested: - -Begin Recipe Export- QBook version 1.00.14 Title: ZEPHYR BUNS Keywords: BREAD, ROLLS 1 pkg active dry yeast 2 T warm water 2 T sugar 1 tsp salt 3 eggs 2 C sifted all-purpose flour 1/4 C melted butter 1 tsp cool water Soften the yeast in warm water and stir in the sugar and salt to dissolve. In a bowl, beat 2 of the eggs and blend in the flour. Then stir in the yeast mixture and melted butter. Knead vigorously in the bowl with the hands, till the dough leaves the sides of the bowl and is elastic -- about 5 min. Make into a ball, put in a buttered bowl, and cover with plastic wrap. Let rise in a warm, draft-free place for 1 1/2 hours, or till doubled in bulk. Punch down and divide into 18 equal pieces. Roll the pieces into balls and arrange, well separated, on a buttered baking sheet. Let rise 30 min till doubled in size. Brush with remaining egg beaten with a tsp of water. Bake in a preheated oven at 375~ for 10 min or until nicely browned. Cool on a rack. - -End Recipe Export- Linda Rehberg ------------------------------ From: Tario@mcn.net Date: Sun, 25 Feb 1996 22:21:14 -0800 Subject: Texture improvement for corn bread. I wonder whether you might have some thoughts about this. Since 1938 I have been struggling to make the best-of-all-possible corn breads and as yet I have not succeeded! I'm talking about the simple, lowly 1 cup of all-purpose plus 1 cup yellow corn meal (with variations in ratio) and with baking powder rather than yeast (plus milk, sugar, salt.) But this combination and slight variations from it always yields crumbly bread. The two most perfect corn breads I've found so far in life (one found in Indianapolis, Indiana the other in Bozeman, Montana) not only hold together but are a wee bit chewy as well...a quality that I like very much. I haven't the courage to ask restaurant bakers for their trade secrets. How to make it chewy? Would wheat gluten help me here? Gluten flour, as such, is not the answer so I found. Sincerely, Bob Hosley ------------------------------ From: Warner Karl LTC Date: Sun, 25 Feb 1996 22:20:56 -0800 Subject: Re: bread-bakers-digest V6 #74 Anybody have a good recipe for salt-rising bread? Thanks. ------------------------------ From: "Jackson, Mandy" Date: Mon, 26 Feb 96 8:53:27 -0500 Subject: nuggethead of the week award greetings from a long-time lurker! well, i give myself the nuggethead of the week award. my chocolate chip bread loaf came out a little smaller than usual, so i figured the crust was harder because of that. i didn't even check to see if the blade was still in the machine. so there i was, slicing away in my bread slicer, when i realized i sliced the kneading blade in half. i called zojirushi and explained my story, and they said they would send me a new blade. 8 weeks is a long time to go without making bread! so i'll do it the other way. moral of the story - check pan before slicing bread! i hope others learn from my stupid mistake. ------------------------------ From: bbriscoe@infolink.morris.mn.us (Bonnie Briscoe) Date: Mon, 26 Feb 1996 10:42:16 -0600 Subject: Asiago Cheese Bread Asiago Cheese Bread 8 ounces water 1 large egg 1 1/4 teaspoons salt 1 tablespoon sugar 3 ounces finely shredded Asiago cheese (1 cup lightly packed) 1 ounce shredded Romano or Parmesan (generous 1/3 cup) 1/2 cup yellow cornmeal 2 3/4 cups bread flour or unbleached flour 2 teaspoons active dry yeast Place all ingredients in pan of bread machine in order listed, or in the order recommended for your machine. Set controls for Basic bread with medium crust and start machine. Makes one 1 1/2-pound loaf. I created this bread in response to a recent request on this list, and also because I wanted to make a cheese bread using some of the excellent Asiago cheese that we sell at our food co-op. This bread has an *absolutely wonderful* aroma while it's baking. I've made it twice and it has already become my husband's new all-time favorite bread. It's definitely worth the extra effort to use freshly grated cheeses. The cornmeal adds some body and helps make a crisper crust, but if you can't eat corn, leave it out and add more flour (start with 1/4 cup flour and add more if needed). Enjoy! Bonnie Briscoe ===================================================================== Bonnie Briscoe - bbriscoe@infolink.morris.mn.us Freelance writing, editing, desktop publishing * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * Language is all that separates us from the lower animals-- and from the bureaucrats. ===================================================================== ------------------------------ From: "Angie Klidzejs" Date: Mon, 26 Feb 96 11:00:05 CDT Subject: Homestyle brick ovens -- information requested Hello fellow bakers: Excuse me if this posting ends up on the list twice. I couldn't tell if my first message made it over to the list. As I've learned more and more about bread, I've found that I'm becoming more and more interested in reducing the baking process to its most rudimentary forms. Four years ago I was thoroughly incapable of baking bread from scratch -- I ended up with grain-based equivalents of concrete blocks. Then I got a bread machine, which served as "training wheels" (as baker and cookbook author Dan Leader would describe it). I've graduated to using a KitchenAid mixer for making dough, and using a grain mill to grind my own flour, and am presently quite content with them. However, I'm interested in more than my electric oven can do for my breads. Does anyone on this list have experience with, or knowledge of, baking bread in brick ovens? I don't mean the commerical variety. I'm seeking information on building and using homestyle and homesize brick or stone ovens. Is this something a person can build and keep out in the yard? How is it constructed? How is it used? Where can I find technical plans and information? I destroy baking stones pretty easily and don't want to invest in more of them. I think that clay flower-pot saucers may be okay, but their use is limited. (My house isn't air-conditioned, and baking indoors during the summer is out of the question.) I would appreciate any and all information that people can suggest. Thank you. Angie Klidzejs Internet: a-klid@maroon.tc.umn.edu Accountant Department of Horticultural Science University of Minnesota 305 Alderman Hall 1970 Folwell Avenue Telephone: (612) 624-3795 Saint Paul, MN 55108 U.S.A. Fax: (612) 624-4941 ------------------------------ From: "Langley Health Unit" Date: Mon, 26 Feb 96 09:45:25 PST Subject: Tupperware Bread Storage Keepers I am a Tupperware consultant. I live in Langley, British Columbia, Canada. If I may be of service just let me know. You can order product without attending a party. If you live elsewhere in Canada you can call 1-800-567-0400 for a consultant in your area or in the U.S. call 1-800-858-7221. I hope this helps. I haven't personally used this product but everyone rants and raves about it. Diane Owen Regards, Langley Health Unit 532-2300 Fax: 530-3750 Internet address: langle01@bcsc02.gov.bc.ca ------------------------------ From: K_SWOPE@ojc.cccoes.edu Date: Mon, 26 Feb 1996 09:42:42 -0700 (MST) Subject: Red Star Yeast Regarding the trouble w/rising using Red Star Yeast, I have found that using 1/2 teaspoon LESS salt helps the bread rise higher. I have been using Red Star for several years w/o any problems. Perhaps you could try this and see what happens. BTW, I have used this method in a Hitachi as well as a Welbilt and a Black & Decker (I think that was the brand). Kendra ------------------------------ From: "Neil T. Dunn" Date: Tue, 27 Feb 1996 04:30:14 +-1000 Subject: RE: bread-bakers-digest V6 #74 Hello. Even with the probability I am going to be riduculed as a total boob I have just got to ask this question which has been burning inside me for quite some time now. Just where in the heck do I get Gluten? I have searched supermarket shelves high and low and to no avail. Is it packaged/named something other then Gluten? If not I guess it is possible we just don't carry it in Guam. In that case, can anyone recommend an Internet or mail order source? Thanks. dying to try some recipes which call for the stuff. Neil ------------------------------ End of bread-bakers-digest V6 #77 ********************************* bread-bakers-digest Saturday, 2 March 1996 Volume 06 : Number 078 Today's Subjects: ZO machine Re: Tupperware Bread Storage Keepers Re: Clay Cookers Re: Hint for Busy Folks! elf: Lefse Squaw Bread Desem bread, #67 high gloss?,recipe,biblio,etc pita bread Re: Red Star Yeast Bread Recipe Books elf: Zephyr Rolls LORA BRODY'S SOURDOUGH BREAD "ENHANCER" re, Need DAK Address lefsa!, dak machines Re: bread-bakers-digest V6 #74 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Darci McCannon-Humphrey" Date: Mon, 26 Feb 1996 12:48:55 CST Subject: ZO machine I am interested in purchasing a bread machine. I collect Betty Crocker points and get their catalog. In the catalog they had the Zo machine for $160, regularly $260. It is not the Zo S-15, I think that is the newer model, it is the one before that. I was just wondering if this was a good deal, and how that model compares to the newer model. Thanks for your help. ------------------------------ From: marcy@j51.com (Marcy Lawrence) Date: Mon, 26 Feb 1996 21:16:20 GMT Subject: Re: Tupperware Bread Storage Keepers Ina Bechhoefer writes: >Do the tupperware storage keepers keep the crust from getting soft--a >problem with my current bread keeper. >Also, is there a source where one can get the keeper without particpating in >one of those "loathsome" Tupperware parties? I just ordered two storage keepers last week, I don't know if the keeper prevents the crust from getting soft... will let you know.. Good news! You don't have to attend those "loathsome" (and I agree!) Tupperware parties. Tupperware will take your order and it will be sent to you through the mail. Just call the local Tupperware dealer in your Yellow pages. Marcy marcy@j51.com ------------------------------ From: marcy@j51.com (Marcy Lawrence) Date: Mon, 26 Feb 1996 21:16:27 GMT Subject: Re: Clay Cookers I lost the instruction book for my "La Cloche". I faintly recall that the cloche had to be soaked in water and allowed to dry before placing the dough inside. Is this true or a figment of my imagination? Marcy marcy@j51.com ------------------------------ From: marcy@j51.com (Marcy Lawrence) Date: Mon, 26 Feb 1996 21:16:30 GMT Subject: Re: Hint for Busy Folks! Re: Bev's great hint for pre-mixing dry ingredients and storing in a zip-lock bag (digest volume #74) ... Bev, I've been doing just that for about two years and I agree that it is a wonderful idea. I've taken it one step further... I own a "Food Saver" vacuum packer. I make up a few bags, line them up and when I bake bread, I'll also make up a few "mixes", vacuum seal the bags, write the name of the bread and the ingredients to add with a permanent marker on the bag and toss in the freezer. I usually "forget" to defrost the mix in advance, so open the bag, place the mix on a plate and microwave for about 30 seconds to warm it up before placing in the bread machine pan. The mixes are also a nice gift idea for friends who have just bought a machine and are still using only the recipe book that came with the machine! Marcy marcy@j51.com ------------------------------ From: ellen@brakes.elekta.com Date: Mon, 26 Feb 1996 23:49:43 -0400 Subject: elf: Lefse Here is one lefse recipe from James Beard. Do read the quote from his book which states that there are many different versions of this bread, so this may or may not be what your Grandmother made. But I do I hope it is close. As this bread only contains 3 1/2 cups flour, the dough could be mixed in an automatic bread machine on the "dough" cycle and then taken out and rolled, cut, and cooked. Hmmm, I may just have to try this... Enjoy! Ellen * Exported from MasterCook Mac * Lefse Recipe By : Beard on Bread, James Beard (pp. 171-172) Serving Size : 1 Preparation Time :0:00 Categories : Bread Mailing List Breads Amount Measure Ingredient -- Preparation Method - -------- ------------ -------------------------------- 1 cup sour milk -- or buttermilk 1/4 cup sugar 6 tablespoons corn syrup 1/2 teaspoon baking soda 1/8 teaspoon cardamom 3 1/2 cups all-purpose flour Combine the ingredients and work the mixture with the hands, or in an electric mixer with a dough hook, to make a soft, pliable dough. Divide the dough into two pieces and roll each piece about 1/8 inch thick into a square, oblong, or circle. Cut into squares or circles with a 4-6 inch cutter. Bake on a lightly floured griddle, over quite low heat, 12-15 minutes one each side. The lefse should color very slightly. - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Per serving: 2134 Calories; 4g Fat (2% calories from fat); 45g Protein; 478g Carbohydrate; 0mg Cholesterol; 787mg Sodium NOTES : "Lefse is a rather unusual flatbread of Scandinavian origin, and there are many different recipes for it. It can be eaten warm or cold. When cold, it grows quite firm and crisp, but it is traditionally dipped lightly into water and softened before being rolled with a filling or simply spread with butter. When it is eaten warm, it should be taken from the griddle, folded into a napkin, and served with butter, cheeses, preserves, or other fillings. In either case, it is easy to prepare and delightful to eat." If it is not to be eaten warm, lefse should be stored in a tin or a box, where it will become crisp. [James Beard] - -- Ellen C. ellen@brakes.elekta.com ------------------------------ From: AbyssDream@aol.com Date: Tue, 27 Feb 1996 13:57:19 -0500 Subject: Squaw Bread Hello....have been searching (in vain) for a receipe that even closely resembles the Squaw Bread my grandmother used to make. The recipe that my DAK book has is a far cry! I remember it as being a sweeter, dark brown and medium soft bread. Can anyone assist me? I will convert to bread maker proportions - all I need is a recipe. Thanks, AbyssDream@ AOL.com aka: Sammi ------------------------------ From: "Miles, John W. (3672)" Date: Tue, 27 Feb 1996 09:17:00 -0800 (PST) Subject: Desem bread, #67 In reference to Paula Countryman's query in #67 about desem bread, it appears that there has been no response as yet. While I do not follow the Laurel's Kitchen Bread Book recipe to the letter, I believe that I do in spirit. I have yet to take the plunge to 100% whole wheat flour. I use half white and half whole wheat. I add other whole grains - rolled oats, cracked wheat, corn, barley, rice. These I soak, cook in a double boiler, then ferment for 12 hr or so with my sourdough culture before adding salt, additional water, and flour. Kneading is by hand (of course). It is a longish process, but the result is satisfying. Paula's reference to the Laurel's Kitchen Bread Book is the only one I recall seeing in this list. Does no one else use it? I suppose it is for "purists" (or the stubbornly old fashioned) only. Best regards, John Miles (Cali, Colombia) ------------------------------ From: Angela Fox Date: Tue, 27 Feb 1996 19:10:00 -0500 (EST) Subject: high gloss?,recipe,biblio,etc Hi, I will begin with a question. I have had a repeated problem (not consistent, but has happened more than once). Using a bread machine, if my dough starts out really wet and I proceed to add flour a tablespoon at a time until the dough looks right, on a few occasions it never quite looks or ends up right. The problem is the dough starts looking very shiny or very high-gloss - the consistency is really strange - very rubbery and no matter how much extra flour I add (to a point i stop) the dough does not seem to improve - once I kept adding flour and the resulting bread was like concrete even though the dough never got dry and crumbly. I realize this sounds like over-kneading but this happened today before the end of the regular kneading on the standard cycle. I was wondering if it might be due to some of the ingredients in the recipe. The recipe I used today was "Honey Mustard Bread" from the bread machine cookbook "Electric Bread". First of all I should have gone with my intuition that the recipe contained too much liquid for the amount of flour called for - 3 cups flour (1 ww, 2 white bread flour), 3/4 cup water, 1/2 cup veggie broth, 1/4 cup honey, 2 1/2 T wet mustard, 1 t "salt, 3 t yeast. I don't know why I didn't start out with less liquid, I just wanted to see what following the recipe would yield. I ended up adding 1/2 cup + 1 1/2 T extra white bread flour to this dough. It still collapsed when baked which I feel was a result of the dough being too wet still. (I have this false notion that if it is printed in the cookbook it must be sacred and it must work no matter what - or at least come close. This is my second disappointment from Electric Bread - btw don't forget to send in info for the digest bibliography everyone!) Does honey in that amount (1/4 cup) affect the consistency of dough? Maybe that is where the high gloss comes from? Is it the experience of most people that is more difficult to correct an overly wet dough than it is to correct a dry dough? Response to Crystalle regarding making bread by hand the old-fashioned way: I could relate so well to her beautifully told story about the fear of killing yeast. I have envied anyone who could bake a loaf of bread successfully by hand all my life. My few attempts resulted in yeast disasters going back to my clover leaf rolls in 4-H as a child. I have always considered myself a decent cook and have made quick breads galore trying to compensate for the inability to make a yeast loaf. Recently I have gone crazy with my bread machine baking (since obtained in December). I feel like the machine has taught me so much and held my hand as Crystalle puts it, and now I am having thoughts of trying a loaf the old-fashioned way too Crystalle. I have been taking so much from this list and have not shared much. Here is one of my favorite recipes: Cranberry Orange Bread or Bagels (for the Bread Machine) This is my very favorite bread. We have a local bakery that makes this bread and I was addicted to it before I discovered a bread machine. 1 1/4 C orange juice 2 T orange juice concentrate 2 T fructose 1 t salt 3 C whole wheat flour fresh ground (reduce liquid about 2 tablespoons to start with if it is not fresh ground - I think fresh ground is drier) 2 T Vital Wheat Gluten 2 1/4 t yeast (I use SAF) 2 T chopped orange peel (I lightly peel one orange and chop up the peel) 3/4 C dried cranberries (added near the end of kneading) I prefer to bake this as a round loaf in my oven. I brush the loaf with egg white glaze - mix orange juice with the egg white if you think of it. I bake it at 350 for about 25-30 minutes. Of course you can let the bread machine bake it. I use this same recipe to make bagels. Follow your favorite bagel routine. THis dough is stiff enough for bagels using my fresh ground whole wheat flour, but reduce the orange juice about 2 T to start with if you are using purchased whole wheat flour. You could also do a combination of flours and start with the lesser amount of liquid. Next post I will share my favorite Swedish Rye recipe Angie ------------------------------ From: jguevara@spin.com.mx (Jenka Guevara) Date: Tue, 27 Feb 1996 18:35:13 -0600 (CST) Subject: pita bread Here is my recipe, the one that came out: PITA BREAD I make my normal bread recipe, htat is in the breadmaker I put, more or less: 1 1/2 teaspoons yeast 1 cup flour 2 cups whole wheat flour 1 Tablespoon honey 1 cup sour dough 1 1/4 cup water I set the ABM for dough, and when ready add flour as needed. then I shape my circles, I have used a rolling pin, but last time tried, with exit, a tortilla maker. Once the "tortillas" are made, you have to leave then about 1/2 an hour to rise. Then you put them, flipping them, so the side that was down is now up, on a cookie tray and into a very hot oven. When they start inflating you turn them over. ********************************* Jenka Guevara American School Foundation Mexico City jguevara@spin.com.mx ------------------------------ From: "Natalie Frankel" Date: Mon, 26 Feb 1996 20:31:15 -0600 (CST) Subject: Re: Red Star Yeast On Tue, 20 Feb 1996, David Kingsley asked if anyone knew where to write to Red Star yeast for mail order purchases. I live in Milwaukee where Red Star is made, so I called the company today and spoke with Lucy of the marketing department. This was no easy task, as there was no consumer number nor 800 # in the phone book so I just called the corporate number listed in the book. I was transferred 3 times and finally I was transferred to Lucy's voice mail so I could leave a message for her to return my call. I thought that was very interesting (especially since later I got the consumer 800 # from her). Anyway... The mail order service has been discontinued and she said they would like us to purchase our yeast at the grocery store or a wholesale club (the latter where you can buy it in 1-2 lb. bulk packages). She said if your local grocer doesn't carry it, ASK. They should be meeting the consumers' needs and know that we will shop elsewhere if they don't carry what we need. (I would also like to suggest your local natural food store, as I believe they have access to ordering in bulk - at least the one pound packages. It's certainly worth a try if you're having trouble locating it.) For individual or 3-strip packages purchased at the grocery store, just observe the expiration date to ensure freshness. For bulk packages, make sure the package is hard as a rock when you purchase it. Pour into a glass jar with a tight fitting lid as much as you will use in a month and store it in the back of the fridge. Wrap the rest of the package (in its original packaging), secure it with several rubber bands and it will last in the freezer for up to 6 months. When replenishing the refrigerator jar, work as quickly as possible so the frozen yeast doesn't thaw and refreeze. If you have consumer questions or need help with baking with yeast, their consumer number is 1-800-445-4746. Natalie Frankel Milwaukee, WI ------------------------------ From: Sally Eisenberg Date: Wed, 28 Feb 1996 07:51:16 -0800 Subject: Bread Recipe Books Hi, Here are the cookbooks that I use and like very much, because of useful information and great recipes. Donna German is one of my favorites. I posted one of our favorite breads, Third Bread. When toasted it brings out the honey flavor. Enjoy. Sally The Best Pizza is Made at Home - by: Donna German--ISBN 1-55867-094-7 The Bread Machine Cookbook V - by: Donna German--ISBN 1-55867-093-9 The bread Machine Cookbook II - by: Donna German--ISBN 1-55867-037-8 The Bread Machine Cookbook III - by: Donna German--ISBN 1-55867-048-3 Real Bread A Fearless Guide to Making It - by: Maggie Baylis & Coralie Castle-- ISBN 1-56426-554-4 The Best Bagels Are Made at Home - by: Dona Z. Meilach-- ISBN 1-55867-131-5 Sunset Breads - by: Sunset--ISBN 0-376-02749-5 * Exported from MasterCook II * Third Bread Recipe By : Serving Size : 1 Preparation Time :0:00 Categories : Breads Amount Measure Ingredient -- Preparation Method - -------- ------------ -------------------------------- -----FOR 1-1/2 LB. LOAF----- 1 package Yeast 3/4 cup Rye flour 3 cups Bread flour 3/4 cup Yellow cornmeal 1 1/2 teaspoons Salt 1/2 cup Honey 1 1/2 cups Very warm water Put ingredients into pan in the order listed, select white bread and push start. NOTE: Using two flours and a meal, this is called third bread and was found in many old cookbooks. It is a light, honey colored bread. It will sink a bit in the middle, but has a chewy crust and a sweet, very satisfying flavor. From Loafing It by DAK - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Lou&Sally Eisenberg sparky@netgate.net ------------------------------ From: ellen@brakes.elekta.com Date: Mon, 26 Feb 1996 23:50:00 -0400 Subject: elf: Zephyr Rolls Here are the Zephyr Rolls you requested from James Beard. Enjoy! Ellen * Exported from MasterCook Mac * Zephyr Buns ("Alvin Kerr's") Recipe By : Beard on Bread, James Beard (pp. 165) Serving Size : 18 Preparation Time :0:00 Categories : Bread Mailing List Breads Amount Measure Ingredient -- Preparation Method - -------- ------------ -------------------------------- 1 package active dry yeast 2 tablespoons warm water -- (100-115 degrees) 2 tablespoons sugar 1 teaspoon salt 3 whole eggs 2 cups all-purpose flour -- sifted 1/4 cup melted butter 1 teaspoon cool water Soften the yeast in warm water and stir in the sugar and salt to dissolve. In a bowl, beat 2 of the eggs and blend in the flour. Then stir in the yeast mixture and melted butter. Knead vigorously in the bowl with the hands, till the dough leaves the sides of the bowl and is elastic-5 minutes. Make into a ball, put in a buttered bowl, and cover with plastic wrap. Let rise in a warm, draft-free place for 1 1/2 hours, or till doubled in bulk. Punch down and divide into 18 equal pieces. Roll the pieces into balls and arrange, well separated, on a buttered baking sheet. Let rise 30 minutes, or until doubled in size. Brush with the remaining egg beaten with a teaspoon of water. Bake in a preheated oven at 375F for 10 minutes, or until nicely browned. Cool on a rack. - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Per serving: 91 Calories; 3g Fat (34% calories from fat); 3g Protein; 12g Carbohydrate; 37mg Cholesterol; 154mg Sodium - -- Ellen C. ellen@brakes.elekta.com ------------------------------ From: CHEFLZ@aol.com Date: Wed, 28 Feb 1996 11:44:10 -0500 Subject: LORA BRODY'S SOURDOUGH BREAD "ENHANCER" As one of the volunteers to test-bake using this new product, I can only rave about it, hopefully I can soon get rid of my Sourdough Starter(NO MORE FEEDING IT, ETC.,ETC.!!). Larry Ziegler ------------------------------ From: voyager@halcyon.com (Robert B. Isbell) Date: Mon, 26 Feb 1996 19:55:38 -0800 Subject: re, Need DAK Address Kerry Ogata wrote: >From: Kerry Ogata >Date: Mon, 19 Feb 1996 13:20:21 -0500 >Subject: DAK Bread Machine Paddles >A friend of mine asked me to post this. She has a DAK bread machine and has >lost the paddle. She thinks that DAK is out of business, and doesn't know >where to get a replacement paddle. Can anyone here help? (Sorry, but I >don't know the model #). I thought I remembered hearing that someone bought >out DAK's bread machine line, but I'm not sure. :) > >Thanks, >Kerry DAK Industries has gone out of business, but the bread making products were bought out, and are now offered by a company called... DAK Gourmet Products 19749 Bahama St. Northridge, CA 91324 800-656-2253 They have a nice catalog, and have parts for all the old DAK bread machines. They even build a new model much like the old ones. I called them, and they are sending me one of their catalogs. I know that Wellbuilt also has made a model very similar to the DAK, and that the pan and paddle works fine. I don't remember the model # right now, but can pass it on when I find it.(One of my relatives has one) voyager@halcyon.com ... mission, to search the internet for intelligent life forms. In real life ... Robert Isbell ------------------------------ From: BJH41@aol.com Date: Tue, 27 Feb 1996 23:45:39 -0500 Subject: lefsa!, dak machines My first remarks are to Kerry regarding Dak . I have a Dak bread machine (FAB-100-3). It was made by Welbilt, not Dak and I'm certain your friend can get a paddle from that company. My machine is round and has a very high see-through dome. Regarding LEFSE: I am 100% Norwegian and grew up on lefse. In the midwest it was made by sweet little ladies who packaged it at home and sold it by word of mouth or in smaller markets. Several members of my family could make it and I fortunately have a very good recipe from a cousin. It takes practice and patience but it is well worth the effort. Lefse 4 cups of riced or mashed salted potatoes (NOT PACKAGED POTATO BUDS) 11/2 cups flour (NO MORE) 2 T. melted butter 2T. melted shortening Add the shortening and butter to the potatoes FIRST. You do not want to add too much flour, barely 11/2 cups total, so I usually add about half that and use the rest to roll it out as that is the most difficult part. Work into a smooth dough and divide into balls about golfball size. (This depends on the size of lefse you want.) Keep the balls in the refrigerator while rolling dough because it rolls better if cool. Cool the balls for at least an hour before you start rolling them. The rolling is the tough part. As I said, keep the dough cool, flour the board well and roll the balls out as thin as you can. You need to be fast . Some people use a floured cloth on which to roll. You can buy long wooden paddles to transer the "crepe" to a griddle. At any rate,transfer the "crepe" to a hot griddle--teflon helps. Cook at about 425 until it begins to bubble, turn and cook until it bubbles up from the griddle.Remove and let cool. It really takes a lot of practice to make lefse. It ends up to look a lot like a tortilla but that is where the likeness stops. Lefse is used much like bread. It is buttered and rolled up and eaten with the meal. Another way is to put butter and mayonnaise on it, roll it around meat and eat it like a burrito. Good luck! Barbara ------------------------------ From: "Nancy S. Hsu" Date: Tue, 27 Feb 1996 00:43:30 -1000 (HST) Subject: Re: bread-bakers-digest V6 #74 I received a bread machine for xmas... having fun making bread, but I noticed last nite when my lights flickered, the machine would then reset ... which means my dough is basically no good... anyone else experiencing this problem? Nancy ------------------------------ End of bread-bakers-digest V6 #78 ********************************* bread-bakers-digest Saturday, 2 March 1996 Volume 06 : Number 079 Today's Subjects: Home brick ovens Homestyle brick ovens -- information requested Zoji manual and molasses Cake mix in bread machine? Questions About Grinding Flour Re: bread-bakers-digest V6 #76 Re: bread-bakers-digest V6 #76 Re: bread-bakers-digest V6 #76 [none] Re: bread-bakers-digest V6 #76 Wellbuilt equivelant of the DAK bread machine Re: bread-bakers-digest V6 #76 Seeking Information Rich Egg Bread Chocolate cherry bread bread digest responses [none] Perfect WW Bread Oat flour suppliers ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Cherie Ambrosino Date: 28 Feb 96 13:28:55 Subject: Home brick ovens Angie, you asked about baking in a brick oven at home - Bernard Clayton's Complete Book of Breads [newer version] has not only a short discussion on the subject but complete instructions and diagrams for making your own. I got the book out of the library before I decided it was something I really wanted to own. [its a great book by the way]. Good luck and let us know how it turns out! Cherie ------------------------------ From: bzwax@tiac.net (rich) Date: Wed, 28 Feb 1996 13:48:35 -0500 Subject: Homestyle brick ovens -- information requested Hello: i believe that Smithonian mag. had an article on brick oven building within the past year. I may be wrong on what mag! but this is my best guess. best-debbie how much wood would a woodchuck paint if a woodchuck could paint wood? ------------------------------ From: ellen@brakes.elekta.com Date: Wed, 28 Feb 1996 13:53:06 -0400 Subject: Zoji manual and molasses Ann Molison wrote: > Last weekend, after using my instruction manual which gives recipes, Try calling Zoji. Their customer service number is: 800-733-6270 >Every time I use molasses my breads don't raise! Typically (admittedly I have limited experience), breads that contain molasses also call for whole grain flours. Has this been the case for you? If so, are you using wheat gluten? That might make the difference. Try 1 tablespoon of gluten per cup of non-white flour. I hope this helps. - -- Ellen C. ellen@brakes.elekta.com ------------------------------ From: tshih@ucsd.edu (Timothy Shih) Date: Wed, 28 Feb 1996 16:34:30 -0800 Subject: Cake mix in bread machine? I have heard of baking a "box" cake mix in a bread machine... Is this true? How would I do it? Thanks in advance, Tim ------------------------------ From: jmmccomb@STTHOMAS.EDU Date: Wed, 28 Feb 1996 13:51:54 -0600 (CST) Subject: Questions About Grinding Flour I just purchased a flour mill from Irwin Franzel and have a few questions to those of you who grind your own flour. I have been using hard red winter wheat berries. The bread I have been baking is 100% whole wheat and does not rise properly, is very dense but has wonderful flavor (I also add the proper amount of gluten) my ABM is a Panasonic (large). My questions are: Do you sift the flour after you grind it? If so do you keep the cracked stuff? What do you do with it? Is gluten necessary when you mill your own flour? Should I not look for a high rising loaf? What other grains do you grind in your mill? Any other tips you can give to help as I am totally new to grinding flour? Do you increase the amount of yeast in the recipe? Sorry for all the questions, I know I could call Irwin and ask these questions, but I know how busy he must be and I truly do not want to pester him, and all of you people on this list are so very helpful. TIA Jeanne in MN Grinding.....Grinding.....Grinding..... ------------------------------ From: Blanche007@aol.com Date: Wed, 28 Feb 1996 21:21:09 -0500 Subject: Re: bread-bakers-digest V6 #76 Angie: re brick ovens. You ought to make a trip to Boiseville, NY to talk to Dan Leader about the brick oven he built in his back yard. He did it from some plans he bought or saw in a book. It wasn't terribly expensive. Dan is hard to get a hold of, but you could try calling him at the bakery and leave a message, or write to him. Boiseville is in the Catskills about 2 1/2 NW of New York City. Beautiful country - especially in the spring and summer. Tell him Lora sent you. ------------------------------ From: Blanche007@aol.com Date: Wed, 28 Feb 1996 21:24:35 -0500 Subject: Re: bread-bakers-digest V6 #76 To Susan: re allergy and Kaiser Rolls. Call P.J. Hamel at King Arthur (802) 649-3717 - burt wiat til next week - she's at the Euro Pan this week. She has the best recipe for Kaiser Rolls - also I think she'll know the answer to the killer yeast question - if memory serves, we discussed it at one point. Tell her Lora sent you. ------------------------------ From: Blanche007@aol.com Date: Wed, 28 Feb 1996 21:31:07 -0500 Subject: Re: bread-bakers-digest V6 #76 Deb - re what's great about a bread machine. Can't make this Ciabatta in anything else because the dough is so wet. sponge: 1 1/2 cups unbleached all-purpose flour 1 cup water 1/4 teaspoon instant active (not rapid rise) yeast Mix together the ingredients and let them rest overnight in a covered bowl at room temp. Dough: Sponge 1 teaspoon yeast 1 1/2 cups unbleached all-purpose flour 1 1/2 tsp salt 1 tsp. sugar 1/4 cup water plus enough olive oil to = 1/3 cup liquid Make this very wet dough in the bread machine. It should be between a batter and a runny dough.Shape into 2 ciabatta - long, rough ovals about 4 x 10 inches. Form on oiled baking sheet. Let rise til light and bubbly, using your fingers topoke indentations in the dough all over aobut 1.2 way through the rising period. Bake in a preheated 450 oven spraying with water once or twice during baking 9or add ice cubes to bottom of oven). Bake 25 minutes, then cool in turned off oven with door cracked open. Dust with flour. ------------------------------ From: Blanche007@aol.com Date: Wed, 28 Feb 1996 21:35:53 -0500 Subject: [none] samples - I'm eagerly awaiting feedback. Lora ------------------------------ From: Blanche007@aol.com Date: Wed, 28 Feb 1996 21:33:46 -0500 Subject: Re: bread-bakers-digest V6 #76 re lost Zo book - call headquarters at(800) 733-6270 and ask them to send you one. re molasses: too much sweetner in any form will slow down or completely stop the action of the yeast. Are you adding more than 2 tablespoons per 3 cups of flour? ------------------------------ From: voyager@halcyon.com (Robert B. Isbell) Date: Wed, 28 Feb 1996 19:07:10 -0800 Subject: Wellbuilt equivelant of the DAK bread machine In a previous article a subscriber wanted to know how to get a new paddle for their DAK bread machine. I posted an answer to that question with the "new" company's address and phone #. I also said that there was a Wellbuilt equivelant to most of the DAK machines. That equivelant is the Wellbuilt model ABM-100-4. I know from experience that the pan and paddle will fit all but the original DAK bread machines. I am sure that the lid heating element, and many other parts will also fit. The electronics are another matter though. They are not all the same. voyager@halcyon.com ... mission, to search the internet for intelligent life forms. In real life ... Robert Isbell ------------------------------ From: Kathryn Hagen <73174.2455@compuserve.com> Date: Fri, 01 Mar 1996 01:01:53 -0800 Subject: Re: bread-bakers-digest V6 #76 >>Does anyone on this list have experience with, or knowledge of, baking bread in brick ovens? I don't mean the commerical variety. I'm seeking information on building and using homestyle and homesize brick or stone ovens. Is this something a person can build and keep out in the yard? How is it constructed? How is it used? Where can I find technical plans and information? >>Angie Klidzejs A man in Rochester Hills, MI, has built an oven like you describe in his back yard. He based it on ovens that are used in France. Unfortunately, I do not know his name. However, if no one else here can help, I'll be glad to call around--people at the bakery might know who he is. Just let me know if you don't get anything more solid than this. Kathy Hagen 73174.2455@compuserve.com ------------------------------ From: Greenfox22@aol.com Date: Tue, 27 Feb 1996 18:47:00 -0500 Subject: Seeking Information I have just joined AOL and am unfamiliar with procedures. I am a former cooking teacher, with a special interest in European style, heavy crusted breads. What kind of information is available to me and how do I access it? My address is Greenfox22@aol.com. ------------------------------ From: Tina Durham Date: Fri, 01 Mar 1996 16:57:22 -0700 Subject: Rich Egg Bread This is based on a Betty Crocker Cookbook recipe for Rich Egg Bread, which I adapted for use in my bread machine. This is a cake-like bread that lasted less than four hours in our household. Even the puppy was begging for more! (Okay, well, maybe the puppy isn't a good indicator of food quality. But the humans, birds and one cat loved it too. It was really good!) Bread Cycle: white bread 2 1/4 tsp yeast 2 tbsp sugar 1 tsp salt 2 eggs 2 tbsp margarine, softened 3 1/3 cps of flour (maybe a little less!) 3/4 cp warm milk (original recipe said to scald and cool, but I didn't bother) 1/4 cp water I'm baking in the arid Arizona desert, so you may have to adjust the amount of flour. What I did: put in 3 cps of flour with the other ingredients and start the machine. Watch the dough during the initial kneading cycle. If it looks gluey and wet, add more flour one tablespoon at a time. Stop when the dough looks "just right." If you aren't sure what "just right" dough looks like, observe your own dough with a recipe you know works, then try this recipe. My theory about adapting bread recipes: my machine takes 3 cps of white flour very nicely. One package of dry active yeast is the same as 2 1/4 tsp. of yeast. Look at your original ingredient list. If the recipe makes two loaves and calls for 7 to 7 1/2 cps of flour, cut all the other ingredients in half. Use 2 1/4 tsp yeast. If you run into a peculiar amount of eggs, like 1 1/2 eggs, round up and use a little more flour or a little less fluid. Always watch the initial kneading cycle the first time you try the recipe, and add more flour or liquid as required. WRITE DOWN ALL YOUR MEASUREMENTS so you can refine your recipe the next time around. Happy baking! Tina Quinn Durham / tqd@asu.edu "What can you say about a society tqdurham@imap1.asu.edu that says that God is dead and Elvis is alive?" --Irv Kupcinci ------------------------------ From: Leotah@aol.com Date: Thu, 29 Feb 1996 06:43:38 -0500 Subject: Chocolate cherry bread Does anyone have a recipe for chocolate cherry bread, preferably one made with sourdough? There is a new bread book out with a recipe for it that does not work, so I wonder if anyone has such a recipe they've actually tried that succeeds? Thanks, Laury Epstein ------------------------------ From: LoisCon@aol.com Date: Thu, 29 Feb 1996 11:57:10 -0500 Subject: bread digest responses Susan Petusky asked about her problems with dough. No Susan we doubt your body gives off something that makes bread unable to rise.... We would like to help but need a lot more information. Why don't you E-mail us with details as to what recipe you are using, what bread machine, climate, etc. We are not sure exactly what is going on, but more information will help... Ann Mollison needs a manual and I suggest you call Zoji. It's in our book, The Bread Machine Magic Book of Helpful Hints but here it is in case you don't have the book..1-800-733-6270. David K. wants Red Star Yeast address...It's Universal Foods Corp. 433 East Michigan St. PO Box 737 Milwaukee, WI 53201 phone:1-800-445-4746 Alan why don't you write me with details about your Red Star Yeast problems. Write me at LoisCon@AOL.com Tell me the bread machine, give me the recipe and I will try and help. Rob, we are so happy you like. our Bread Machine Magic...and it is on your bookshelf, but the hamburger buns you posted and gave us credit for is not ours..we do have a hamburger bun recipe in the book which Linda posted in a later digest. Just thought you might like to credit the real author. Lois Conway, co-author Bread Machine Magic and The Bread Machine Magic Book of Helpful Hints. LoisCon@AOL.com ------------------------------ From: Leotah@aol.com Date: Thu, 29 Feb 1996 06:43:38 -0500 Subject: [none] why diastolic malt powder helps bread? That is, what does it do that enhances the bread? Can it be added to all breads, or are some more amenable to it than others? I'd appreciate any information. Laury Epstein ------------------------------ From: Pat Hewitt Date: Thu, 29 Feb 1996 09:13:45 -0800 (PST) Subject: Perfect WW Bread My apologies for taking so long to get this information posted. But here is the recipe for the "perfect" whole wheat bread I was bragging about a couple weeks ago. This is really a very basic recipe - and since I have made ww bread for so many years using many different dough enhancers, etc., I can only conclude that what makes this recipe so consistently great, is the particular wheat and perhaps the brand of yeast. I grind my own wheat which is Hard White Spring Wheat from Montana and I use Fermipan Yeast. When I got this recipe from an acquaintance last year I asked her what her brands she used of everything in the recipe and this is exactly what I am sharing with you. It is a lighter colored wheat bread and has a wonderful flavor that does not leave a bitter sort of aftertaste that I have experienced with my previous brands of wheat. I grind up 15-16 cups of flour first. Then I pour into my Kitchen Aid mixing bowl: 5 cups hot (95-105 degrees) water 1/2 cup honey (any brand will work) 2 Tblsp Fermipan Yeast (If using another brand, you might try 2 1/2 - 3 Tblsp) Let this sit for a few minutes to "proof" - it will begin to "grow" and will look bubbly and foamy. Add.....5 cups of the whole wheat flour and mix for 1 minute. Add.....1/3 cup oil (any good vegetable oil) 1 Tblsp salt Mix together another 1 minute Add.....7-9 cups of flour, until dough pulls away from sides of bowl. Knead and rise as usualy for any basic bread dough. This will make 3 very large loaves or 4-5 smaller pan size loaves or it is fun to make 12 of the very small loaves (maybe 2 1/2 x 3" pans) Now the sources: I buy the Fermipan yeast from the K-Tech stores when I am visiting my kids in Utah. There is a K-Tech store in Linden and one in Orem, and I am sure there are others around Salt Lake City. Here is the address off of the Fermipan package that I just opened: Food Ingredients, Inc. King of Prussia, PA 19406 1-800-662-GIST The Hard White Spring Wheat I also have purchased at the K-Tech Store, but they gave me the phone number of the farm in Montana that they purchase from so that I could call and get the name of distributors in my area (Portland, Oregon). So here is that phone number: Wheat Montana 1-800-535-2798 (These people were very helpful) Hope your results from this information is as successful as mine. I will be glad to help anyone further if needed. Bon Appetit! Pat Hewitt hewitt@sequent.com Sequent Computer Systems Inc. ------------------------------ From: JHS Date: Fri, 01 Mar 1996 18:11:44 -0800 Subject: Oat flour suppliers Does anybody know where we can buy oat flour in Los Angeles? Or, if there aren't any, if there is a mail order that sells oat flour. tia! Joachim Here's the world's longest (working!) URL: - ------------------------------------------ http://www.newciv.org/The/Logs/of/JD/Flora/is/a/unique/e-mail/sequel/-a/stra nge.mixture/of/Science/Fiction/Fantasy/and/Philosophy/-which/appeared/one/da y/on/the/hard/disk/of/an/unsuspecting/computer/guy/who_decided_to_share_the_ individual_files_-also_called_episodes_or_Logs_-_with_the_entire_Internet_co mmunity_Lucky_you_-_HERE_IT_IS.html ************************************************* ** Join the adventures of JD by subscribing ** ** to the SciFi/Fantasy e-mail sequel 'Logs ** **of JD Flora' http://www.newciv.org/jdf-logs/** ************************************************* ** Joachim H. Steingrubner, PhD ** ************************************************* ------------------------------ End of bread-bakers-digest V6 #79 ********************************* bread-bakers-digest Saturday, 9 March 1996 Volume 06 : Number 080 Today's Subjects: Re: Red Star Yeast Re: Web Bread sites Rubbermaid salt-rising bread Redstar Mailing Address Cornbread Tupperware malt/digest v6 #79 Which Yeast Should I Use? Pita bread technique Amount of gluten to flour RE: bread-bakers-digest V6 #79 Re:Tupperware Storage [none] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Billy Hatcher <0002040826@mcimail.com> Date: Sat, 2 Mar 96 08:36 EST Subject: Re: Red Star Yeast > From: K_SWOPE@ojc.cccoes.edu > Date: Mon, 26 Feb 1996 09:42:42 -0700 (MST) > Subject: Red Star Yeast > > Regarding the trouble w/rising using Red Star Yeast, I have found that using > 1/2 teaspoon LESS salt helps the bread rise higher. I have been using Red > Star for several years w/o any problems. Perhaps you could try this and see > what happens. > > BTW, I have used this method in a Hitachi as well as a Welbilt and a Black & > Decker (I think that was the brand). > > Kendra I was having difficulty with inconsistent rising using both Fleischmans and Red Star. After consulting "Bread Machine Magic Book of Helpful Hints," I now use room temp water as recommended instead of straight from the tap, and ~make sure the yeast is separate from the salt~. I had just been dumping the ingredients in, in the order called for, and frequently had loaves that did not rise properly. In the past 2 weeks, following the above advice, I have had no failures. I still put ingredients in as directed, but make sure the salt is on one side of the pan and the yeast is on the other. Don't know for sure this was my problem, but it works for me. Using our Regal, I have to reduce the required yeast in all recipes by 1/4 tsp to keep the rise to the right amount. Much prefer Red Star, due both to performance (great aroma and texture) and price (I get 2 pounds at Sam's for less than I pay for 4 ounces of Fleischmans) ------------------------------ From: Billy Hatcher <0002040826@mcimail.com> Date: Sat, 2 Mar 96 09:00 EST Subject: Re: Web Bread sites > From: bj29@mirage.skypoint.com (bjjan) > Date: Sun, 25 Feb 96 07:42 CST > Subject: Web Bread sites > > Linda Rehberg was kind enough to send me some "bread sites" . There seem to be > so many of us who "are surfing the net" these days that I thought maybe you > might want to see some more sites that I have checked out from the list she > gave me. http://www.coloradosprings-travel.com/~dahasher/Bread_Machine.html > http://www.honors.indiana.edu/~veggie/Food/Bread/ > This one has 29 Bread recipes...I copied them all last night..whew! [deleted] Bev - Tried to send this to your address above, but my mail program would not accept it. Sorry to clog up the list for something that should go direct, but can't get it there that way. Sure appreciated your list of web sites and have it filed away for future reference. Last summer we moved so far out in the country that I cannot get toll free access to the internet, so am limping along with email access only. Hope to get internet through ATT later this month. In the meantime, if you have the 29 recipes mentioned above that you so laboriously copied in your computer so you could send them to me via email, I would very much like to have them. I ~do not~ expect you to sit down and type them all over again to send to me! :)) If it isn't too inconvenient I would like to have them, but don't go out of your way. Thanks very much. Best regards from SE VA where spring is trying to come but having a hard time of it. Bill Hatcher 204-0826@mcimail.com Southampton County, Virginia, USA ------------------------------ From: kmosley@akai.fv.stlcc.cc.mo.us (Kim Mosley) Date: Sat, 2 Mar 1996 08:37:13 -0600 Subject: Rubbermaid Nice thing about Rubbermaid is that they will replace anything that breaks for life. On this basis I only buy Rubbermaid. Send cracked or broken products (cut out the model #) to: Rubbermaid, Customer Service Wooster OH 44691 Kim Mosley 4120 Parker Rd Florissant, MO 63033 314/595-4371 kmosley@fv.stlcc.cc.mo.us Homepage: http://www.fv.stlcc.cc.mo.us/~kmosley School's Page:http://www.fv.stlcc.cc.mo.us/ ------------------------------ From: williams@Rt66.com (Williams) Date: Sat, 2 Mar 96 12:38:35 MST Subject: salt-rising bread Someone asked for a recipe for salt-rising bread. I haven't actually tried this, but I believe this recipe has been in my family for hundreds of years. The instructions that I have were written down by my aunt about 50 years ago. My mother tells me that this stuff really does smell awful while its fermenting. My father used to make it back when they were first married during the depression. They would set it on the furnace in the hall of their apartment house, and apparently everyone in the apartment house complained about it. But my father claimed there was no better tasting bread. **** SALT-RISING BREAD The secret of success with this bread is to keep it very warm so that it can rise properly. Peel and slice one medium sized potato thin and add it to 1 quart of boiling water in which has been put 1 Tablespoon of sugar, 2 Tablespoons of cornmeal, and 1 teaspoon of salt. Keep the mixture warm overnight, 95-100 F. The next morning it should smell like beer. Drain out the potato (I assume this means keep the liquid, get rid of the potato) and add 1 cup of scalded sweet milk. Stir flour in until stiff, like muffin mix. Keep warm, 100-110 F, until it rises. Then add 1 pint warm water, 1/2 cup sugar, 1 teaspoon salt, 1 Tablespoon lard, and flour until it is the consistency of bread dough. Do not knead. Put into bread pans, let rise to double in bulk, and bake in a moderate, 375 F, oven 45 minutes to an hour. The dough must never be allowed to chill. **** Joy of Cooking also has recipes for salt-rising bread. I have no idea how many loaves the above recipe makes. It sounds like it might make half a dozen loaves. I'd be very interested in your results if you try this. - --LOUISE ------------------------------ From: "Floyd E. Whetzel, Jr." Date: Sun, 03 Mar 1996 15:51:32 -0500 Subject: Redstar Mailing Address >From the back of my RedStar packaging, their address is: RedStar Milwaukee, WI 53201 U.S.A. Phone Number: 1-800-423-5422 Floyd E. Whetzel, Jr. The Whetzel Group | mailto:floyd@whetzel.com | http://www.whetzel.com | ftp://ftp.whetzel.com | | Integrated Management and Internet Connectivity Services | | Microsoft Windows, Windows NT, and Novell CNE Certifications | ------------------------------ From: Judy Enz Date: Sun, 3 Mar 1996 13:37:50 -0600 (CST) Subject: Cornbread Bob Hosley asked for a good cornbread recipe. I got this one from an internet friend, and it's so easy and so good!! If you're on this list Jeanelle - here's to you :) Cornbread 1 c. flour 1 c. cornmeal 1/4 c. sugar (or even less - the original recipe called for 1/2 c.) 1 tsp. baking soda 1/2 tsp. salt 1 c. plain nonfat yogurt 2 eggs Mix dry ingredients together. Add yogurt and eggs. Mix well. Bake at 400 degrees in 8" square or round pan (I use a large cast iron skillet sprayed with Pam) for about 20 minutes. Enjoying the list Judy ------------------------------ From: Bonnie Pollack Date: Sat, 2 Mar 1996 17:32:28 -0500 (EST) Subject: Tupperware Bought my container at the mall. A representative was setting up a booth. The catalogue is available by calling either the local representative or the 800 number. No need for the tupperware marathon parties. BTW Rubbermaid does not even come close in quality to Tupperware. You get what you pay for. Bonnie ------------------------------ From: "Selena Chan" Date: Mon, 4 Mar 1996 12:24:35 NZST Subject: malt/digest v6 #79 I figure that Laury was referring to diastatic malt in her post. Diastatic malt contains a whole raft of enzymes which are present in the barley as they germinate (malting process). Most of these enzymes will be present in wheat flour as well. Addition of diastatic malt ensures that variations in flour composition will not impact on your finished loaf quality. Its like an insurance! We use in here in NZ as our flour is not as strong as in the US. We can also buy non-diastatic malt for use in wholemeal & grain breads where enzyme activity is not required. This non enzyme malt contributes to crumb colour & flavour as the harsher roasting of the malt gives it a dark coffee colour. Please contact me if you need further infomation. Selena ------------------------------ From: David Schellenberg Date: Sun, 03 Mar 1996 21:58:01 -0600 Subject: Which Yeast Should I Use? I bought a Black & Decker B1600 (2 lb loaf) machine last fall, and after switching from all-purpose flour to bread flour, am pleased with most of the results, using Fleischmann's Bread Machine yeast. I do like to experiment, however, to see if there could be some improvements, and seeing that Bread Machine MAGIC recommends using Red Star yeast, I looked for it in vain - the Winnipeg grocery stores only carry Fleischmann's. This weekend my wife and I took a trip to Grand Forks, ND, where sure enough, they had both Red Star Quick-Rise (labelled "Good for Bread Machines") and the Active Dry Yeast (labelled "Preferred for Bread Machines"). Not taking any chances, I bought one of each. Then I re-read the reference in Bread Machine MAGIC, and found the authors do not recommend using the rapid rise. Someone else has stated here that the Fleischmann's yeast labelled for bread machines is their rapid rise yeast. So why would those of you who are knowledgeable about such things choose rapid rise versus the active dry? Surely the makers of bread machines must have assumed one or the other to program the rising cycle time? The manual with my B & D says: "The recipes in this cookbook have been tested with Bread Machine yeast. If you prefer to use Traditional Dry yeast, Rapid Rise yeast or Quick Rise yeast, you will have to increase yeast amount by 1/4 teaspoon in your recipe;" This doesn't help me at all, since now it sounds as if Bread Machine yeast is yet another, more potent, type. The B & D Basic White recipe using 4 cups of white flour calls for 1 1/4 tsp yeast. When I follow that instruction, the dough always touches the window on top, so I reduce it by 1/4 teaspoon, which corrects that. Please share your collective wisdom on the subject. David Schellenberg Winnipeg, Manitoba Dave Schellenberg Winnipeg, Manitoba ------------------------------ From: rbparker@henning.cfa.org (Ron Parker) Date: Sun, 3 Mar 1996 21:10:06 -0600 Subject: Pita bread technique For pita bread just use any ordinary flour, water, yeast, salt bread recipe of your choice. There is no magic recipe. Do the dough in the usual way, let it rise once. Punch it down and do a superficial kneading. Then divide the dough into lumps - the size depends on what size pita you want. A spherical blob that is about 1.5-2.0" in diameter will satisfy most needs. Knead each blob by holding it in one hand and kneading it with the thumb of the opposite hand, always kneading into the middle of the blob until it is silky and smooth. Place kneaded blob on a lightly floured surface and roll to a 6-7 inch pancake shape. Place on lightly floured board or cookie sheet, allowing space for a bit of expansion. Cover potential pitas with a towel, then some plastic film, and let rise until a bit puffy. Gently move puffy pitas to a lightly greased cookie sheet and put cookie sheet with pitas into a hot oven (400-450 F). Watch carefully. They should puff after a short wait. Bake until just browning - you don't want a brittle crust. It is very easy after you try it once, and the failures are wonderful bread in any case - puffed or not. - -->(Ron Parker) rbparker@prtel.com - -->This address will save space, but the one in the header will work too. ------------------------------ From: Rose Date: Mon, 04 Mar 1996 12:08:09 -0800 Subject: Amount of gluten to flour I got some pure gluten and I don't know how to use it for bread making, Can someone please tell me what is the ratio of gluten to plain flour and bread flour for making nice soft bread. Thanks in advance. Please e-mail to rmsy@gworld.net Rose ------------------------------ From: "Neil T. Dunn" Date: Mon, 4 Mar 1996 17:43:11 +-1000 Subject: RE: bread-bakers-digest V6 #79 Gluten: A success story!! Just want to say public thanks to the responses on my request as to where to find Gluten. The tip on health food stores did the trick!! I am now in gluten heaven with two delicous loaves hot from the oven by my side. They look so pretty I do NOT want to eat them. But, alas, they smell so good I think I need to give them a bite. Thanks again, Neil ------------------------------ From: Liz Haskell Date: Mon, 4 Mar 96 9:53:00 EST Subject: Re:Tupperware Storage I'll delurk for a moment to comment on a couple of things. First, my breadmachine was a gift for Christmas and I have truly appreciated both the advice and recipes I've found on this list. Thanks. Now for an opinion. I have a Tupperware bread keeper (I went to the "loathesome" party as a favor to a friend...it wasn't *that* awful since I got out of having to put the kids to bed that night :-) ) The keeper works very well, with the bread staying fresh for a number of days. It does *not* keep a crisp, fresh from the oven, crust, but it I've found it does a much better job than when I was sealing the bread in plastic bags. Just my $.02. Liz - -- Liz Haskell lhaskell@kzoo.edu ------------------------------ From: Bluemoon Date: Mon, 4 Mar 1996 15:50:54 -0800 Subject: [none] My mother was a southern cook and made the most delicious cornbread. Part of the secret is baking it in a cast iron skillet. Cornbread 1 cup flour 1 cup cornmeal 4 teaspoons baking powder 1 egg, slightly beaten 1 to 1 1/4 cups milk, soured by adding a teaspoon of cider vinegar 1/2 teaspoon salt 2 Tablespoons vegetable oil Preheat oven to 425 degrees. Put oil into cast iron skillet and put in oven while you mix all of the other ingredients in a large mixing bowl. Add enough milk to the batter until it is the consistency of pancake batter, which is thinner than most people make it. Stir only until mixed, then remove the cast iron skillet from the oven and pour the oil into your batter. ( Some of it will stay in the pan which is okay as it will make the crust very brown and crisp) Mix the oil in lightly then pour the batter into the hot skillet and return to the oven. Bake 25-30 minutes. Quote for the day: "Angels are the bright lights in the midst of our lives." ------------------------------ End of bread-bakers-digest V6 #80 ********************************* bread-bakers-digest Saturday, 9 March 1996 Volume 06 : Number 081 Today's Subjects: Recipe conversion tips for the abm Re: bread-bakers-digest V6 #76 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Gerard_Mcmahon@ftdetrck-ccmail.army.mil Date: Tue, 05 Mar 96 11:21:57 EST Subject: Recipe conversion Hi all, I have attached a text copy of the bread recipe conversion. This is taken from Quick and Delicious Bread Machine recipes by Norman Garrett, without permission. I have also attached it in WordPerfect format in case anyone wants the forms in their table form for nicer printing. {NOTE: We removed the WordPerfect version because of mailing list limitations. Reggie & Jeff} While I was keying this in I decided to pust some of my old DAK recipes through the conversion. Cause what was good for the R2D2 may not be good for the Zojirushi. I had made a loaf of Drew's Dill Onion bread last year when I first got my new machine, and it wasn't like I remembered it. In the old days, different machine, I used to make this all the time and loved it. I made the conversion on Sunday. The liquidity ratio for the Zo is 2.89 and the Dill onion bread recipe was 1.89. I modified it, dumped in the ingredients, poof! perfect dough ball. Cinnamon raisin next. Hope You're having a great day! Gerry Recipe Conversion This technique is for yeast breads only Four steps: 1. Cut the recipe down so it will make one loaf. 2. Determine the parameters of your bread machine. 3. Determine the liquidity ratio of the recipe. 4. Determine the overall bulk of the recipe. 1. Reducing recipe size. Most recipes tell how many loaves they make. Some will tell the size of the loaf. Cut the recipe down so it will make one loaf. A rough judgement can be made by looking at the flour required. A 1 pound loaf requires about 2 cups of flour. Therefore if your recipe calls for 6 cups of flour, you can figure it will make 3 - 1 pound loaves or 2 - 1 1/2 pound loaves. 2. Determine machine parameters. Since each machine varies in its capacity and motor power, you must determine the acceptable ranges for your machine in two categories: liquidity ratio and bulk. To find your machine's range, look at the basic white bread recipe that came with the machine. Determine the number of cups of flour called for. Follow that column until you find the row that shows the number of ounces of liquid (water or milk) called for in the recipe. In that box you will find the ratio range for your machine. Highlight or write down the ratio range. Bulk is determined by the number of cups of flour called for in the basic white bread recipe for your machine. If the recipe calls for 2 to 2 1/2 cups of flour, you have a 1 pound machine. If the recipe calls for 3 to 4 cups of flour you have a 1 1/2 pound (or greater) machine. Bread Machine Liquidity Ratios Ounces Liquid Cups of Flour 1/8C = 1oz 2 2 1/2 3 3 1/2 5 2.9-3.5 3.6-4.4 4.3-5.3 5.0-6.2 6 2.4-3.0 3.0-3.6 3.6-4.4 4.2-5.2 7 2.1-2.5 2.6-3.2 3.1-3.7 3.6-4.4 8 1.8-2.2 2.3-2.8 2.7-3.3 3.2-3.9 9 1.6-2.0 2.0-2.4 2.4-3.0 2.8-3.4 10 1.4-1.8 1.8-2.2 2.2-2.6 2.5-3.1 11 1.4-1.7 1.6-2.0 2.0-2.4 2.3-2.8 The ratio for my Zo is 2.89. (3.25 cups flour / 1 1/8 cups water) Ratio is computed by dividing dry ingredients by liquid. Higher ratios indicate stiffer dough. Lower ratios indicate more liquid dough. 3. Determining Liquidity Ratio. Using the following chart you now need to determine the liquidity ratio of your recipe. Fill in the ingredients and their amounts in the appropriate columns. Write the amounts as decimal fractions so you can use a calculator later to add them up. For example if the recipe calls for 2 1/2 cups of flour - - put 2.5 in the dry cup column. You'll have to determine whether an ingredient is dry or wet. Generally - use the form the ingredient is in when you add it. Exeptions to this are things that are goin to melt when heat is applied such as butter, margarine, fresh cheese or shortening. Some ingredients shouldn't be computed. Don't include the following in the calculation: yeast, raisins / nuts / seeds added at the mix cycle. You should count raisins / nuts / or seeds added initially as dry ingredients. After you have entered all the ingredients, total each column and place the sum in the subtotal box. Then multiply the subtotal by the multiplier specified and place the result in the total box. Add the totals together for wet and dry grand totals. Then divide the dry grand total by the wet grand total to compute the ratio for this recipe. For best results the ratio should fall within the range specified for your machine from step 2. If the ratio only misses by a few points it will probably be satifactory. If the ratio is below the range your dough might be too wet. Try a slight reduction in liquid ingredients or an increase in dry ingredients and recalculate. If the ratio is above the range, it is too dry. Add liquid or reduce the dry ingredients. You may still need to experiment a little but this calculation will get you beyond the trial and error stage. Dough Liquidity Calculation Worksheet DRY WET Ingredient tsp tbs cup tsp tbs cup oz Subtotal Multiplier 3 48 3 48 6 Total Grand Total Liquidity ratio 4. Determining Bulk. You don't want to overflow the machine so make sure that the recipe doesn't call for more than 2 1/2 cups of flour for a one pound machine, or more than 3 1/2 cups for a 1 1/2 pound machine. If you need to fine tune the recipe make equal adjustments to both the wet and dry ingredients in order to maintain the liquidity ratio. ------------------------------ From: LIR119@delphi.com Date: Sat, 02 Mar 1996 13:03:19 -0500 (EST) Subject: tips for the abm Although I have been with this list a month or so now I find myself overwhelmed with email etc. but I love bread making and have taught it as a cottage industry. I do love the abm and following is a quide I made up for my brother and others who need to know basics for the breadmaker. Hope this is not to repetitious for you pros. If you have any questions feel free to ask or email me. I think Ive made almost every kind of bread over the past 30 years but Im sure to find new ones here! MM: TIPS FOR THE ABM( by J.Ross) - ---------- Recipe via Meal-Master (tm) v8.02 Title: TIPS FOR THE ABM( by J.Ross) Categories: Miscell, Abm, Breads Yield: 1 servings From Joan's Kitchen Flour: the best flour to use for breads machines is bread or high gluten flour. This flour contains the proper amount of protein and gluten to allow for lengthy kneading, stretching and rising times without producing a small or collaspsed loaf.The loaf should be a good risier with a fine grain texture. Additional flour such as rye, oats, soy, cornmeal, wholewheat, rice etc. may be added to any recipe without increasing the size of the breads. These flours are deficient in gluten.( Except for whole wheat which ironically has sufficient gluten but has a sharp gluten structure which punctures and deflates the risen yeast cells ) You can sucessfully add 1 or 2 cups of these flours to recipes which use 3 cups of bread flour. The lightest and highest loaves are ones made with white bread flour, eggs, and liquids such as milk or water. The smaller denser loaves are made with rye and whole wheat flour etc. These breads can even be made lighter if the flour is blenderized before using. Blenderized oatmeal also makes a lighter textured bread. The best bread machine cycle for denser loaves is the standard mode. the turbo or quick mode is excellent for for basic white, french, italian or light weight breads.Become familiar with cycles on your own machine. Humidity and temperature affect flour and the dough consistency may never be the same in repeated recipes. Let your eyes be your guide to know when to add more flour or water to the dough in the kneading cycle. the dough should be a smooth somewhat tacky dough when touched. However no dough should cling to your fingers when touched.Add flour or water if needed in small amounts gradually to get the proper consisitency. All ingredients should be lukewarm ( not hot ) when added to the recipe.People have the tendency to make the water much to hot for the bread machine.This activates the yeast too quickly, causing a poor textured loaf which may often collapse. Too hot water also may rupture the yeast cells and render them ineffective.Follow your machines instructions. If in doubt, 80 to 100 degrees may be sufficient. Temperatures over 110 F may be too hot. There are many bakers yeasts on the market. Red Star is reputed to make breads rise higher than Fleischmans yeast. SAF instant yeast ( French imported yeast ) produces higher better textured bread using less yeast than called for in recipes. Judge for your self by experimenting. Ingredients which help improve texture , rising and character of bread: GLUTEN FLOUR or powder: very high in protein and helps breads rise higher.You dont need this if using a good brand of bread or high gluten flour.The protein adds a nutritional boost to breads. Available in health food stores PURE BARLEY MALT SYRUP: A tablespoon or so also helps breads rise higher as the sugars feed the yeast.Found in health food stores LIQUID LECITHIN: improves the textures of the breads, making it stay fresh longer. found in health food stores. VITAMIN C ( ascorbic acid ) crush a tablet or use it in powder form to help breads have a better texture and mellow gluten. FRESH LEMON JUICE: a few teaspoons also mellows the gluten and helps the texture of the bread making for a good keeper and riser. Other Miscellaneous tips for the breadmaker: Use bakers spray to spray the globe tops of bread machines in case your breads over rise and stick. This aids in cleanup! Use a small pastry or paint brush to sweep away the bread crumbs inside your machine and use a damp paper towel to pick them up. If your paddle sticks inside the bread, try using a bakers spray on the paddle next time. Low fat products such as skim milk, egg beaters, light margarine low or non fat sour cream etc. work well, but the texture of the bread may not be the same as for higher fat products.Bread may be denser and smaller. Bread that does not come out satisfactory may be use for breadcrumbs, bread pudding, bread dumplings or for the birds! A general safe ratio for breadmaking is: 3 cups bread flour, 1 1/4 cups liquid, 1 tsp salt and 1 tsp sugar and 2 tsp yeast. Experiment from there. Decrease the total amount of liquids if added oil and eggs are used It pays to buy yeast and flour in large quantities if making a lot of bread. Store flour in a cool dry place. Yeast may be refrigerated. Cool breads at least 30 minutes to 1 hour before slicing. Any breads that dont seem quite baked, place them in a conventional 35O oven for 10 minutes to finish baking, Eggs: when directions call for 1/2 of egg etc. just use one small egg.Normally in all baking large eggs are used. Too much garlic and cinnamon also decreases the power of yeast in a bread recipe.A small amount is okay when added directly with ingredients but dont go overboard if you are a garlic or cinnamon lover. Add the extras in the last kneading cycle. - ----- MM: Tips for the ABM,#2 by(J.Ross) - ---------- Recipe via Meal-Master (tm) v8.02 Title: Tips for the ABM,#2 by(J.Ross) Categories: Miscell, Breads Yield: 1 servings From Joan's Kitchen More about Ingredients: SALT: is needed to control the activity of the yeast. You must use salt or your bread may overise, collapse and have a coarse uneven texture. Certain salt substitutes may work well to replace table salt SUGAR: sugar feeds the yeast and helps it grow.Too much causes the yeast cells to overmultiply and eventually collapse, casing a poor small product. Brown sugar easily repalces granulated white sugar. So does honey but reduce the amount of the liquid by the same amount of honey added. Sugar substitutes cannot replace the function of sugar.Sweet breads tend to brown darker. Use sweet bread cycle for breads with a lot of sugar, fats and eggs. Only add the amount of dried fruit specified as dried fruit does add some sugar to the dough.Usaully fruits and nuts are added at the "beep ". as they may not remain whole if added and mixed into the dough to early. Eggs: As I mentioned previously, 1 small egg equal 1/2 of a large egg. 2 egg whites may be substituted for 1 large egg.One egg should equal 1/4 cup. Use egg substitites as directed on the carton to replace eggs. FATS( oil, butter, margarine, mayo, crisco etc. ) are all dough enhancers. Fats condition the dough and keep breads fresher longer.Butter tends to cause a crisper crust, margarine a little tougher and solid vegetable shortening a little softer. When used in small amounts none of the above will cause a noticeable change in flavor. LIQUIDS: such as milk and water etc. activate the gluten, bind ingredients and add moisture.Milk produces a softer smoother bread texture and browner crust than water does.Dry powdered milk or buttermilk is an excellent chioce to add to breads.If you add 2 tablespoons directly to the dry ingredients you need not necessarily alter the wet ingredients. HIGH ALTITUDE BAKING:Flour is dryer at higher altitudes and therefore will absorb more liquid. You'll need less flour in the recipe.Doughs also tend to rise faster at higher elevations. Therefore youll need less yeast, a bit more salt and a bit less sugar.Youll have to experiment with bread recipes to see what works for you. - ----- Joan,"Flour Power" `[1;34;41mRainbow V 1.18.3 for Delphi - Registered ------------------------------ From: Darrell_Greenwood@mindlink.net (Darrell Greenwood) Date: Sat, 2 Mar 1996 09:13:22 -0800 Subject: Re: bread-bakers-digest V6 #76 At 9:19 AM 2/28/96, "Angie Klidzejs" wrote: There was a thread on rec.food.sourdough from someone who was building one in the last 6 months. You can track the postings down via http://dejanews.dejanews.com/. Cheers, Darrell PS. I went to dejanews and had a look to make sure I was giving you the right pointers. I used the keyword of 'oven' and limited the search to rec.food.sourdough and found the article I was thinking of. It and another article are attached. > From: "Angie Klidzejs" > Date: Thu, 22 Feb 96 13:22:25 CDT > Subject: Homestyle brick ovens -- information requested > > Hello fellow bakers: > > As I've learned more and more about bread, I've found that I'm > becoming more and more interested in reducing the baking process to its > most rudimentary forms. Four years ago I was thoroughly incapable of > baking bread from scratch -- I ended up with grain-based equivalents of > concrete blocks. Then I got a bread machine, which served as "training > wheels" (as baker and cookbook author Dan Leader would describe it). I've > graduated to using a KitchenAid mixer for making dough, and using a > grain mill to grind my own flour, and am presently quite content with > them. However, I'm interested in more than my electric oven can do for my > breads. > > Does anyone on this list have experience with, or knowledge of, baking > bread in brick ovens? I don't mean the commerical variety. I'm seeking > information on building and using homestyle and homesize brick or stone > ovens. Is this something a person can build and keep out in the yard? > How is it constructed? How is it used? Where can I find technical plans > and information? I destroy baking stones pretty easily and don't want to > invest in more of them. I think that clay flower-pot saucers may be okay, > but their use is limited. (My house isn't air-conditioned, and baking > indoors during the summer is out of the question.) I would appreciate any > and all information that people can suggest. Thank you. > > > Angie Klidzejs Internet: a-klid@maroon.tc.umn.edu > Accountant > Department of Horticultural Science > University of Minnesota > 305 Alderman Hall > 1970 Folwell Avenue Telephone: (612) 624-3795 > Saint Paul, MN 55108 U.S.A. Fax: (612) 624-4941 Woodburning Oven, part deux - brick2.txt [1/1] From: milligan@smartdocs.com (Nancy Roatcap) Date: 1995/08/26 organization: SmartLink.net Premier ISP 805-294-1273 content-type: Text/Plain mime-version: 1.0 newsgroups: rec.food.sourdough Here comes more of the chronicles of ovenbuilding, for those of you following my folly. If you didn't catch the first installment and would like to do so, mail me and I will be happy to send you a copy. If you remember, I left off frustrated with a minor construction error, unchangeable, that left me unable to follow the plans for the front of the oven. The plans call for fire brick to be laid on top of the foundation wall for the front, where you would rest your peel while loading. In order to bring the brick up to the height of the interior hearth, pavers are laid on the wall before the brick can be mortared on. The interior hearth is 1/2 inch lower than the plans show and there is no room for a mortar bed for the pavers, and too much room to fill with mortar for the firebrick. The only solution is to pour a cap on the foundation wall that will allow the bricks to be laid flush with the hearth. July 9: After much consideration and a good 4th of July getaway, I decide to redesign the front. I want the oven to have more of a "southwest" look, than a "backeast" look. The plans call for an enclosing (weatherproofing) wall to be built atop the foundation wall (of bricks or wood, no matter), but I want the rounded form of the oven to be apparent, and so then would be the top of the foundation wall. The cap that must be poured in the front will now be a visible part of the finished oven. I decide to pour the entire front up to the hearth level rather than using the called for firebrick. July 12: I pour the first of 3 slabs that will make up the front of the oven. This one is 2 inches thick, the width of the wall and protrudes 1 inch out from the front and sides of the foundation. I did the formwork yesterday and it resembles a torture device, complete with clamps, ratcheting tie downs and pieces of wood sticking out here and there. For the first time I mix the concrete from scratch; white cement, sand and pea gravel. This is all new to me and I am not confident of the outcome. I decide to put "veins" of color in the concrete, shooting (in the dark) for a marbled granite look. The concrete is very dry and hard to work, but I have learned the drier the better, so I pound it into the form, sprinkle a little red powder in a line against the form, then pound in some more. July 13: In the morning I pull the forms and decide not to tear last nights work apart. After work I build the form for the second slab. Also 2 inches thick, it protrudes 1 inch out from the first slab and is 8 inches narrower on each end. Tomorrow evening I will pour the slab, then build the forms for the third and final pour day after tomorrow. It will also be two inches thick, (making it flush with the interior hearth) protrude an inch beyond the second slab and again be narrower by 8 inches on each end. The effect, I am told by a Saturday morning visitor, is decidedly "pueblo". By Sunday I am ready to begin construction of the walls, throat and the dome; three arches of 16 bricks each. Woodburning Oven, part deux - brick2.txt [1/1] From: milligan@smartdocs.com (Nancy Roatcap) Date: 1995/08/26 July 16: I stand all the wall bricks up, spacing them with a story stick 1/4 inch apart and marking their positions on the firebrick with a china pencil. I mix the mortar and revel in the difference between the readymix and my mixed from scratch blend; more plastic and less gritty, it is much easier to work with. I wish we had used this to put up the foundation blocks. The walls go up, one bricks height with a 1/4 mortar bed, skinny side facing in. The interior hearth is 28 inches wide and 37 inches long. Before I finish, I tear out the jamb bricks twice to get them exactly on the same plane. The door must be 10 inches high so I mortar a 2 inch piece of brick to the top of the jamb bricks, leaving enough room for a mortar bed to level the 2X3 inch piece of 1/4 inch angle iron that spans the door and holds up the front of the dome. During the week I lay the bricks that comprise the "throat", two lines of four courses just 1&1/2 common bricks long protruding from the jamb bricks out onto the slab I poured the week before. These courses bring the throat up higher than the 10 inch jamb so the angle iron can be mortared and leveled behind them, as it will require this support when the oven dome is completed against it. Also this week I work on building the form to support the arch, two pieces of plywood cut from a pattern made by placing the bricks on the wood in the desired shape and tracing their outline. I clamp the pieces together and carefully cut it with the jigsaw, then put a block between them and screw them together with the driver drill, checking for square and level. July 15: I start out bright and early by laying up the three straight courses of the back wall of the oven. It takes some time to cut the bricks as the wall tapers in to conform to the dome, and I cut them all before I mix the mortar. The arch form goes in supported by four upright bricks and shims made of old post cards to bring it up to wall height and level. As I begin to mortar up the arch, I can see I lose a little ground with each successive brick as mortar adds a fraction of an inch to the allotted space. The arch bricks must touch each other, long skinny sides down and a few grains of sand add enough to keep me from setting the last brick. By now I am getting good with the brick chisel so I decide to shape the brick. It doesn't work so I take out its neighbor and try the same technique. No good, I can't cut enough of the brick off in the right places and the arch comes down after 3 hours of work. More to come later. NancyR. Re: Req. plans for outdoor brick oven From: chrisb@vid.hp.com (Chris Bostak) Date: 1996/02/07 organization: Hewlett Packard newsgroups: misc.rural Dave Jensen (djensen@mailhost.gate.net) wrote: : Howdee! : I would like to build my own outdoor brick oven to bake bread. : Know anyone who has plans for this? I know of a few sources for this. I have only heard anything about the first reference. He has plans for three sizes of ovens. A few people have tried to do this and apparently, it takes more than your average masonry skills to make one correctly. - - Alan Scott Oven Crafters 5600 Marshall-Petaluma Road Petaluma, CA 94952 (415) 663-9010 - - TMR Linea Bar Bar & Restaurant Equipment 219 Ninth Street San Francisco, CA 94103 (415) 621-1171 - - Maurice Sabbagh Earthstone Ovens 1233 North Highland Avenue Los Angeles, CA 90038 (213) 656-5926 - - "The Bread Ovens of Quebec" by Lise Boily and Jean-Francois Blanchette (National Museum of Canada, 1979) This guide costs @ $12 (800)555-5621 Good luck! Chris - -- Darrell Greenwood, Vancouver, BC darrell_greenwood@mindlink.net My web homepage... http://mindlink.net/darrell_greenwood/ ------------------------------ End of bread-bakers-digest V6 #81 ********************************* bread-bakers-digest Sunday, 17 March 1996 Volume 06 : Number 082 Today's Subjects: Admin Post Re: bread-bakers-digest V6 #80 Re: bread-bakers-digest V6 #80 Re: bread-bakers-digest V6 #80 INFO RE BAGUETTES (New Orleans style) How to store bread? Lavender-Cheese Pastries salt rising bread pugliese recipe wanted Re: bread-bakers-digest V6 #80 Re: bread-bakers-digest V6 #80 Zo questions Re: bread-bakers-digest V6 #80 Canadian all-purpose vs bread flour Onion dill breads ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Reggie Dwork Date: Sun, 17 Mar 1996 12:30:49 -0800 Subject: Admin Post Hi everyone, Our service provider has decided to install new mailing list software. It will be installed in the very near future. As soon as it is up and running everyone will be moved over to the new list and we will send out a special bbd with all the info. Thanks, Reggie & Jeff - -- Reggie & Jeff Dwork Owners, bread-bakers, eat-lf, otbf (OverTheBackFence) Mailing Lists For info write or ------------------------------ From: Barbara Geiger Date: Sat, 9 Mar 1996 07:03:54 -0600 (CST) Subject: Re: bread-bakers-digest V6 #80 Hitachi HB-B101 - 2 years old I put the pan in the bread machine as usual & turned it on. It made this terrible clanking sound & locked up the shaft. Can anyone help? I don't want to force it. ************************************* * bgeiger@utdallas.edu * * Barbara Geiger * ************************************* ------------------------------ From: Lynda Hester Farabee Date: Sat, 9 Mar 1996 07:59:22 -0600 (CST) Subject: Re: bread-bakers-digest V6 #80 Not having ever replied to a "digest" before, I'm not sure I'm doing this correctly. Someone asked a couple of issues back, about "greasing" the pan of a bread machine. This person didn't want to use a Pam-like product. There were no replies. I'd be interested in what others do... I did use Pam for quite awhile, but it didn't seem to particularly help. Finally I went back to "nothing." I usually have to take a wooden paddle and go around the pan to get the bread out. I dislike doing that, seems like it should come out without all that effort. Any suggestions? Lynda Farabee * farabee@tenet.edu * Journalism Teacher Levelland High School * 1400 Hickory Street * Levelland, TX 79336 806.894-8515 [voice] * 806.894-8867 [FAX] ------------------------------ From: Blanche007@aol.com Date: Sat, 9 Mar 1996 10:35:26 -0500 Subject: Re: bread-bakers-digest V6 #80 Hi Reggie - good news. Pizza, Focaccia, Flat and Filled Breads From The Bread Machine Perfect Every Time has been nominated for an IACP cookbook award in the single subject category. The competition in the category is stiff, so I'm celebrating the nomination and forgetting about the prize. A year ago the IACP wouldn't even acknowledge the existence of bread machines, so this is a really good sign. Lora ------------------------------ From: Al Sroka Date: Sat, 9 Mar 1996 09:47:35 -0800 Subject: INFO RE BAGUETTES (New Orleans style) Since I was away last month I missed V6 #70 through #79. If someone replied to this inquiry which was posted shortly before I left, I would be mosr gratefull if they would send again. ORIGINAL INQUIRY............... French Bread/Baguettes as baked in New Orleans have an airy pile seldom equalled. Vacuoles one inch in diameter are common, giving the baguette unusual lightness.If any list member has information how this result is achieved I would appreciate the recipe, particularly details such as: 1.-Is it made by straight dough or sponge&dough method? 2.-Flour specification and any protein (Vital Gluten) addition 3.- Yeast, type as % of flour 4.-Yeast food if used as % of flour 5.- Dough conditioner, type as % of flour 6.-Any special notes on dough development and baking process . Since I live in the San Francisco area any comments on suppliers will be appreciated. Al Sroka ------------------------------ From: AKACarl@aol.com Date: Sat, 9 Mar 1996 12:55:25 -0500 Subject: How to store bread? Wonder why nobody seems to suggest freezing. When bread is cool, I slice and package it in ZipLock plastic bags and freeze it. This works fine and stays fresh indefinitely. There are only two of us and we like to have three or four kinds of bread available. Clare ------------------------------ From: Judith Burley Date: Sat, 9 Mar 1996 08:12:31 -0800 Subject: Lavender-Cheese Pastries Here is another recipe for you,It is from Lora Brody's "Deserts from Your Bread Machine" Lavender Sweet Cheese Pastries The marrying of the flowers and cheeses of provence in a sweet pastry turns out to be a joyous combination. The delicate sweet scent of lavender forms the perfect backdrop for the honey sweetened goat cheese filling. Dreid lavender flowers are available in most health food stores. These are the ones to look for - not the artificially scented types used in potpurri. Make sure to select a mild, neither aged nor spiced goat cheese. The inspiration for this recipe came from Beth Hensperger's wonderful book , Bread. Dough: Add to your bread machine in the order given, program for knead and first rise and press start, Meanwhile prepare the filling. At the end of the cycle remove the dough and proceed with completing the pastries. 1/4 cup milk 2 extra large eggs 6 tablespoons of unsalted butter - melted 1/4 cup honey 1 teasp. salt 3 & 1/4 cup unbleached white dlour 1 & 1/2 teaspoons finely grated lemon rind or 1/2 teasp. lemon oil 1 tablespoon dried lavender flowers 1 tablespoon yeast Completing the Pastries: Heaping 2/3 cup (6 ounces) cream cheese not whipped at room temperature Heaping 2/3 cup (6 ounces) fresh goat cheese at room temperature 1/4 cup honey 1 egg yolk finely grated rind of one lemon Confectioners sugar for dusting To make the filling - either by hand or in a food processor combine all ingredients except the confectioners sugar- mix until smooth. Lightly grease 2 heavy duty cookie sheets. Place the dough on a lightly floured work surface. Cut the dough into 4 pieces and working one piece at a time, and using as little additional flour as possible, roll it out into a 12 x 8 inch rectangle. Use a long sharp knife or pastry wheel to cut this into six 4 inch squares. Place a heaping tablespoon of the filling in the centre of each square. Bring one side over to form a rectangle and pinch the edges to seal them closed. Place the pastries 2 inches apart on the prepared cookie sheets. Allow the pastries to rise, uncovered in a warm draft-free place until doubled in bulk. Preheat the oven to 375 degrees f. with the rack in the centre position. Bake the pastries for 15 to 18 minutes or until the tops are puffed and golden. transfer them with a metal spatula to a rack to cool. Just before serving dust with the confectioners sugar. Enjoy, Judi jburley@worldtel.com ------------------------------ From: LIR119@delphi.com Date: Sat, 09 Mar 1996 19:30:53 -0500 (EST) Subject: salt rising bread Hello, I saw the salt rising bread recipe and would like to offer tips/recipe for a favorite. I dont know of to many people who make or like this kind of bread and I was happy to see it! Mine might be a little lengthy and I hope it can help some of you out. Most of my friends wouldnt even bother with it. But its an old recipe with a lot of character but I love the extra patience that goes into making a lot of the forgotton breads! Btw: people always ask about the 1/2 tsp baking soda. There seems to be enough alkaline/acid reaction to give the bread a boost.Since this bread always tastes and looks great I never omit it although you may find other recipes that dont use it. The chief leavener comes from the fermented potato/cornmeal mixture. Joan MM: Salt rising Bread ( text ) - ---------- Recipe via Meal-Master (tm) v8.02 Title: Salt rising Bread ( text ) Categories: Breads, Joan's Kitchen Yield: 1 servings Salt rising bread is a bread made from a potato/cornmeal starter which produces the only leavening in the recipe. This is a fickle bread because sometimes the mixture doesnt "take ". It is called salt rising not because of salt content but because the bowl containing the starter was packed or surrounded by salt to keep the bread warm! The recipe is a challenge because of this. Technically it is not a hard bread to make. If your starter doesnt bubble, foam , smell yeasty or unpleasant ( like ripened cheese ) then DONT BOTHER TO CONTNUE WITH THE RECIPE. If you consult old cookbooks you will find a variety of salt rising recipes. This recipe was passed on by a person who has made delicious successful bread. Ive had great results with this recipe. Please remember one thing: salt rising breads demand constant warmth.So make sure even utensils are warm. The finished bread is most delicious with a texture similar to yeast risen breads. Salt rising breads tend to be heavier and denser than most yeast risen white breads. The bread is excellent toasted. Now see the separate recipe and tips. - ----- MM: Salt rising bread: recipe/tips - ---------- Recipe via Meal-Master (tm) v8.02 Title: Salt rising bread: recipe/tips Categories: Breads, Joan's Kitchen Yield: 6 loaves 3 md or large potatoes 3 tb Yellow cornmeal 1 ts Sugar 1 ts Salt 4 c Boiling water 2 c Warm milk 1 c Warm water 1/2 ts Baking soda 2 ts Salt 2 tb Melted shortening or oil 5 lb Bag of flour, bread is best Wash potatoes and peel well. I use Eastern potatoes which are common in my area and are the cheapest. Slice raw potatoes thinly into a large pyrex or ceramic bowl ( non reactive ).Add by sprinkling on the cornmeal, sugar,salt and pour over the boiling water.Wrap the bowl tightly with a heavy towel and cover the towel with a foil wrap. Place in a constant warm place overnight such as a radiator or on a low heat warming tray.Set the tray to 90 degrees or a warmth that is comfortable when touched but not to hot to touch. Then place a larger towel over the entire covered bowl. I find that 12 to 15 hours is a good time limit to produce the foamy starter. If the next morning the starter isnt foamy or doesnt smell strong, then do not continue with the recipe. You must have the foam and the smell! Now in a separate bowl, mix together the warm milk, ( even skim is fine ), warm water, baking soda, salt and melted shortening or oil. Drain the potato mixture in a collander saving the starter liquid and mixing with the milk & water mixture. Stir in enough flour ( I use bread flour ) to make a smooth dough. Knead until smooth and elastic as you would for yeast dough, about 8 minutes or so, adding more flour as needed to prevent stickiness. divide the kneaded dough into 6, greased 1 pound small loaf ( 8 x 4 ) pans or 4, 9x3 loaf pans. dough should fill pan 1/3 full. Let the breads rise in a consisitent warm place covered ( again use a 90 degree warm warming tray ) until breads are almost double and risen almost to tops of pans. ( about 1 1/2 to 2 hours) . Bake in a 400 degree oven for 30 minutes or golden. remove to racks to cool. bvrush tops of loaves with melted butter. The characteristic strong odor you smell as the breads are baking will not overly manifest itself in the flavor of the bread. The bread has a nice grain and texture and pleasant taste. Great toasted.Freezes well. - ----- Joan,"Flour Power" `[1;35;40mRainbow V 1.18.3 for Delphi - Registered ------------------------------ From: flash gordon md Date: Sat, 9 Mar 1996 18:01:40 -0800 (PST) Subject: pugliese recipe wanted i really love the pugliese bread i buy here in san francisco. it's very crusty, and has *big* gas bubbles in it: a typical slice will have voids from the size of a large grape on down. i can get crusty bread without a problem by using my clay romertopf as a baking container, after soaking it, but i'm not sure how to get the chewy, bubbly bread itself. do i just need more gluten? baking powder? essence of swiss cheese holes? any pointers appreciated. ------------------------------ From: aspaffor@northland.lib.mi.us Date: Sat, 9 Mar 1996 21:09:02 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: bread-bakers-digest V6 #80 Is there a specific product by Rubbermaid for storing our bread machine loaves? I've looked in several stores and haven't seen anything. Andrea ------------------------------ From: sherae@zeta.org.au (Sheri McRae) Date: Sun, 10 Mar 1996 15:53:57 +1100 Subject: Re: bread-bakers-digest V6 #80 >From: Rose >Date: Mon, 04 Mar 1996 12:08:09 -0800 >Subject: Amount of gluten to flour > >I got some pure gluten and I don't know how to use it for bread making, Can >someone please tell me what is the ratio of gluten to plain flour and bread >flour for making nice soft bread. > >Thanks in advance. > >Please e-mail to rmsy@gworld.net > >Rose > Rose, since we don't have bread flour in Australia I always use gluten. It's also cheaper than buying bread flour. In addition, I don't have to keep regular flour and bread flour in the house. So gluten has much to recommend it. You'll see many different ratios of gluten to flour and I figure that means you don't have to be too finicky about the amount. As a guide, use 1 1/2 tsp. gluten to each cup flour. I don't measure, just pour some into my hand. "Yep, that lump looks like 3 tsp. for my 2 cups flour." You don't need to add gluten to bread flour; it's already there. Cheers, Sheri Sheri McRae sherae@zeta.org.au It's not listed in the Bible, but my spiritual gift, my specific calling from God, is to be a television talk-show host. - James Bakker, television evangelist ------------------------------ From: schapin@mitre.org (Susan Chapin) Date: Mon, 11 Mar 1996 08:17:23 -0500 Subject: Zo questions Got my Zojirushi S-15A from Irwin a couple of weeks ago -- thanks, Irwin, for making this available at an affordable price! and for the finish (oops, finnish) pan, which is a marvel. and for the yeast, which is super. and for the dough boards, which truly don't stick. All for under $300! -- and I have a couple of questions. What do you Zo users do about plugging it in: leave it plugged in to stretch the battery life? unplug it to protect against power surges? put a surge protection strip in your kitchen? Is there any reason to store the paddle/plug in the accessories cup, instead of in the pan, between bakings (I bake once or twice a week). Can the accessories cup/spoon be left in their hole (the one in the top of the machine) during baking, or does it get too hot for them? For all you non-Zo owners, if you have the $250 give yourselves a treat and take advantage of Irwin's affordable Zo's [IAZs?] (CPXD31A@prodigy.com (MR IRWIN H FRANZEL), phone number (800) 641-9093). Everything they say about the Zo is true -- it makes far better bread from the same recipe than the two other $100 machines I had. The "finnish" pan is very very useful, too. - susan (schapin@mitre.org) (The opinions above are my very own, and are not known to or necessarily approved by my employer.) ------------------------------ From: fearp@VAX.CS.HSCSYR.EDU (Peter Fear) Date: Mon, 11 Mar 1996 09:34:16 -0500 Subject: Re: bread-bakers-digest V6 #80 It's been my experience that Tupperware will do the same thing also. Just contact your local Tupperware distributor. I have no connection with Tupperware in fact most of our plasticware is Rubbermaid! Pete >From: kmosley@akai.fv.stlcc.cc.mo.us (Kim Mosley) >Date: Sat, 2 Mar 1996 08:37:13 -0600 >Subject: Rubbermaid > >Nice thing about Rubbermaid is that they will replace anything that breaks >for life. > >On this basis I only buy Rubbermaid. > >Send cracked or broken products (cut out the model #) to: >Rubbermaid, Customer Service >Wooster OH 44691 > >Kim Mosley >4120 Parker Rd >Florissant, MO 63033 >314/595-4371 >kmosley@fv.stlcc.cc.mo.us >Homepage: http://www.fv.stlcc.cc.mo.us/~kmosley >School's Page:http://www.fv.stlcc.cc.mo.us/ > > Peter Fear Radiation Safety Office SUNY Health Science Center 750 E. Adams St. Syracuse, NY 13210 (315)464-6510 fearp@vax.cs.hscsyr.edu ------------------------------ From: mvinqvist@mta.ca Date: Mon, 11 Mar 1996 10:33:55 -0400 Subject: Canadian all-purpose vs bread flour Hi everybody, I just read in my Canadian Living (and they surely wouldn't lie :-) ) that Canadian grown/milled flour has a high enough protein content that you don't need to use bread flour in your baking. I (yep, a Canadian) have always used all-purpose flour rather than bread flour for hand and machine-made breads and results have always been fine. So I thought I would pass that info on...therefore, if you are Canadian and are buying bread flour, just for fun why don't you try the all-purpose and see if you like it. In fact, Canadian Living even said that Italy imports our durum flour, due to it's higher protein level, to make pasta, for those of you with pasta machines (and I truly am jealous if you do have one). Have a super day Mindy Vinqvist mvinqvist@mta.ca ------------------------------ From: Gerard_Mcmahon@ftdetrck-ccmail.army.mil Date: Sun, 10 Mar 96 11:32:42 EST Subject: Onion dill breads Hi all, rose wanted the gluten to flour ratio - generally 1 tablespoon to 1 cup of flour. Tupperware also replaces broken, chipped etc. parts free for life. See any representative for the replacement. If the product you have is no longer available they will replace the entire piece with the current replacement. I recently bought the bread keeper and I really like it. I also have Rubbermaid products and they are just not the same. And the price difference is not that great either. BTW, I've only been to one T'ware party in my life and I really enjoyed it. If anyone wants the WP forms version of the conversion charts - send me an e-mail. I alluded to the dill onion bread in my conversion. So, following is Dill Onion bread - ingredient order modified for the Zo, then one after my conversion for liquidity, and a really excellent hand made version. Drew's original recipes called for real fat - cottage cheese, sour cream and butter and real eggs - so feel free to put them back in. Peace, Gerry * Exported from MasterCook II * Drew's Onion Dill Bread Recipe By : Drew Alan Kaplan Serving Size : 10 Preparation Time :0:15 Categories : Yeast Zo Amount Measure Ingredient -- Preparation Method - -------- ------------ -------------------------------- 1/4 cup water -- warmed 3/4 cup cottage cheese -- " 3/4 cup sour cream, lol fat free -- " 1 Egg Beatersr 99% egg substitute 1 1/2 tablespoons margarine, fleischmann's fat free 3 tablespoons sugar 3 tablespoons minced onions 2 tablespoons dill seed 1 1/2 teaspoons salt 1/4 teaspoon baking soda 3 1/3 cups flour 1 package yeast Mix together the water, cottage cheese and sour cream, warm (2 min microwave) and put in machine. In the order listed place the rest of the ingredients in the machine. Select white bread and press start. Lightly brush the top with Fleishmann's spread at baking time if desired. - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - * Exported from MasterCook II * Drew's Onion Dill Bread 2 Recipe By : Drew Alan Kaplan Serving Size : 10 Preparation Time :0:15 Categories : Yeast Machine Zo liquidity Amount Measure Ingredient -- Preparation Method - -------- ------------ -------------------------------- 3/4 cup cottage cheese, lowfat -- warmed 3/4 cup sour cream, lol fat free -- " 3 tablespoons sugar 3 tablespoons minced onions 2 tablespoons dill seed 1 1/2 teaspoons salt 1/4 teaspoon baking soda 3 1/2 cups flour 1 package yeast Mix together the cottage cheese and sour cream, warm (2 min microwave) and put in machine. In the order listed place the rest of the ingredients in the machine. Select white bread and press start. Lightly brush the top with Fleishmann's spread at baking time if desired. - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - * Exported from MasterCook II * Dill Yeast Bread Recipe By : Jo Anne Merrill Serving Size : 10 Preparation Time 4:00 Categories : Hand Yeast Amount Measure Ingredient -- Preparation Method - -------- ------------ -------------------------------- 1 cup cottage cheese 2 tablespoons sugar 1 tablespoon onion flakes 1 tablespoon fresh dill weed -- dill seed 1 teaspoon salt 1/4 teaspoon baking soda 2 Egg Beatersr 99% egg substitute 1 package yeast -- not instant 2 1/2 cups bread flour 1/2 teaspoon margarine, fleischmann's fat free -- brush on after baking Have eggs at room temperature. Heat the cottage cheese until barely warm to touch, about 110 degrees. Mix the cottage cheese in large bowl along with sugar, onion, dill, salt, baking soda, eggs and yeast. Add flour, 1/2 cup at a time, to make a stiff batter. Beat well after each addition with an electric mixer flat beater, or use a wooden spoon if mixing by hand. Since this is a heavy batter, not a dough, it will not be kneaded. Cover the dough with plastic wrap and let rise in warm place for 1 hour or more. Remove the plastic wrap and stir down the batter with 20-25 strong strokes. Spoon the batter into a greased 1-1/2 quart casserole dish. Cover with wax paper and leave until the batter doubles in size, about 45 minutes. Keep the waxed paper from touching the batter or it may collapse when the paper is pulled away. Bake in a PREHEATED 350-degree oven for 40-45 minutes or until deep brown and crusty. Test with a wooden toothpick and if it does not come out clean, then bake 5-8 minutes longer. Remove bread from oven and immediately brush with the margarine. Sprinkle with salt if desired. You might use coarse salt as an interesting variation. - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - ------------------------------ End of bread-bakers-digest V6 #82 ********************************* bread-bakers-digest Sunday, 17 March 1996 Volume 06 : Number 083 Today's Subjects: FYI: want Irish ale bread recipe bread-bakers-digest V6 #80 [none] Greek and Irish bread I'm new! Focaccia (Italian Flat Bread) Re: Which Yeast Should I Use? Lois's Country Crunch Bread question re:impropper rising Need pointer on whole-wheat bread sweet bread Re: bread-bakers-digest V6 #82 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Nicia_Pulido@maxtor.com Date: Mon, 11 Mar 1996 23:46:08 -0800 Subject: FYI: want Irish ale bread recipe Hello everyone, I am new to the list and just lurk alot. I wanted to ask, I have been looking for an Irish bread recipe I saw once 12 years ago. This is a Traditional Irish bread that was usually eaten in the Pub with a stout (?) or mug of warm ale on a cold day. This bread is kind of dark in color light maybe an almost bran type color and texture with a sweet taste. Does anyone know what bread this is and if possible can I get the recipe. I am interested in types of traditional Irish breads and the recipes and traditions behind them. If anyone has any info please let me know at Nicia_Pulido@Maxtor.COM. ------------------------------ From: BreadMagician@prodigy.com ( LINDA REHBERG) Date: Mon, 11 Mar 1996 23:46:09 -0800 Subject: bread-bakers-digest V6 #80 To David: As you noticed in our book BREAD MACHINE MAGIC, we do prefer the Red Star active dry yeast for most of our recipes. The instant, rapid rise type yeast works well, too, especially for the rapid bake breads or in machines that bake loaves in under 3 hours (it's a faster acting, shorter life type of yeast....does not work well at all for breads requiring more than 2 risings such as French and sourdough breads or breads that need long rising times). The Red Star Bread Machine yeast is the best of all, in my opinion, but harder to find and too expensive for the amount of bread we bake each week. We can buy the R.S. active dry in 2 lb bulk packages at our Price Club for $4.75 which is less than the 7 oz jar of bread machine yeast in our market. The Bread Machine Yeast has an added conditioner and an emulsifier that helps produce taller loaves of bread. Hope this clears up some of the confusion. To Rose: The box of Arrowhead Vital Wheat (pure) gluten recommends 1 1/2 tsp per cup of flour. We find that amount works for white breads (which rarely need it) and we double that amount for whole grain breads. Thanks, Bluemoon for sharing your mother's cornbread recipe. Sounds delicious! Linda Rehberg ------------------------------ From: Honasoge Dayananda Date: Tue, 12 Mar 1996 11:16:38 -0500 Subject: [none] Hi If anybody has the recipe for the Chinese Sweet dinner rolls could you please post it. Thankyou for your time Have a Nice day H.D ------------------------------ From: LIR119@delphi.com Date: Tue, 12 Mar 1996 18:02:32 -0500 (EST) Subject: Greek and Irish bread Well, I thought you may enjoy some good Greek bread recipes and a mix for yeast Irish bread. I love international bread baking. Anyway have any of you got good recipes for the Ensaimadas? ( Spanish yeast cheese rolls or bread ) I have only 2 and would like more. The following recipes may be cut in half. I always bake a lot and freeze the rest. Joan MM: Tsourekia- Greek Easter bread - ---------- Recipe via Meal-Master (tm) v8.02 Title: Tsourekia- Greek Easter bread Categories: Breads, Yeast, Ethnic Yield: 5 loaves 2 c Yoghurt 2 c Milk 12 Eggs ( reserve 3 yolks ) 5 lb Flour 3 pk Yeast 3 c Sugar 1 lb Sweet butter 2 c Warm water Seseme seeds Hard cooked colored eggs ( optional ) Dissolve yeast in the warm water and add enough flour to make a thick batter and cover and let rise double. this is called the " sponge '.Meanwhile In a large bowl, beat butter and sugar very light and fluffy, about 20 minutes. Beat in the eggs ( except for 3 yolks ).Alternate adding flour and yoghurt and milk to egg/ sugar mixture and stir in the yeast mixture. Enough flour should be added to make a non sticky dough. Knead smooth and elastic. Cover dough in a large greased bowl and let rise double. Punch down and let rise double again. Then shape as desired in pans or in braided rings. Let rise double and brush loaves with the reserved egg yolks. Sprinkle with seseme seeds. Traditionally for easter, red colored hard cooked eggs may be pressed into the braided ring before the 3rd rising. Baske in a 350 oven until golden, about 30minutes. loaves are light, sweet and delicious. Note: recipe may be easily halved. - ----- MM: Tsourekia- Greek Easter rolls - ---------- Recipe via Meal-Master (tm) v8.02 Title: Tsourekia- Greek Easter rolls Categories: Breads, Yeast, Ethnic Yield: 3 dozen 2 pk Dry yeast 1 c Warm milk 1/2 lb Butter 1 c Sugar 6 Eggs 2 1/2 lb Flour Dissolve yeast in the warm milk until foamy. Meanwhile beat butter and sugar together quite well. beat in eggs.Mix in the dissolved yeast. then mix in the flour, adding enough to form a non sticky dough, kneading smooth and elastic. Cover dough in bowl and let rise double. Punch down and shape into desired rolls. Let rise puffy. Bake 350 for 10 minutes than 325 until golden and done, another 15 minutes or so.Note: dough can also be shaped into loaves if desired. Recipe may be cut in half easily. - ----- MM: Irish Yeast Bread Mix - ---------- Recipe via Meal-Master (tm) v8.02 Title: Irish Yeast Bread Mix Categories: Breads Yield: 2 loaf Mix 8 c Flour 1 1/2 c Sugar 4 ts Salt 2 ts Allspice 2/3 c Instant nonfat milk Zest from 1 lemon For 1 loaf: 4 c Mix 2 pk Dry yeast 1 c Warm water 1/2 c Milk 1/3 c Soft butter 1/2 c Each currants and raisins More flour if necessary To make mix, combine all ingredients in plastic bag except lemon zest. Add zest and shake bag well. Seal and set aside until needed. To make 1 loaf: sprinkle yeast over warm water and let foam for 5 minutes. Place 2 cups of well shaken mix into a large bowl with the milk, butter and yeat mixture and beat with an electric mixer until well blended. Cover bowl and let mixture rise in a warm place for 30 minutes. Then place two more cups of mix onto the surface of dough in bowl. Beat until well blended again with mixer or by hand. Place a little flour on work surface and mix in the raisins and currants. Incorporate this into the dough and knead until smooth and elastic, adding additional flour to make a fairly stiff but pliable dough. Place dough in a large grerased bowl and turn to coat. Cover and let dough rise double in bulk, about 1 to 2 hours. Punch down and knead into a round loaf. Place on baking sheet and allow to rise double in bulk. Bake in a 350 oven until done, about 50 minutes. Makes 1 large loaf. - ----- MM: Psomi': Greek homemeade white bread - ---------- Recipe via Meal-Master (tm) v8.02 Title: Psomi': Greek homemeade white bread Categories: Breads, Yeast, Ethnic Yield: 5 loaves 5 lb Flour, + or - if needed 3 Yeast cakes 1 c Warm water 1/2 lb Margarine softened 1 c Oil 1 c Milk, more if necessary 1 ts Salt 1/2 c Sugar 1 ts Cinnamon 3 Or 4 eggs ( optional Egg wash: 1 egg/1 Tbs. milk Increase if needeed As you can see by previous Greek bread recipes, the Greek Housewives made plenty of bread. These recipes are directly from Greece and are in fairly large quantity.However this and other bread recipes can easily be halved for the smaller hosehold. All yeast breads freeze well too. Crumble yeast in the warm water and let dissolve. Beat the margarine until light and mix into the flour and yeast mixture. Then stir in the oil, sugar, salt, cinnamon, eggs if using ( a lighter baked good ) and the milk, adding " more if needed" to produce a kneadable nonsticky dough. Knead smooth and elastic. Cover in a large bowl and let rise double. Punch down and let rise double again. Shape into 5 loaves and place in pans. Beat egg and milk together and brush loaves. Slash top of each bread. Bake 400 for 15 minutes and then 375 for 30 to 40 minutes or until golden and done. Recipe can be halved easily. - ----- Joan,"Flour Power" `[1;33;40mRainbow V 1.18.3 for Delphi - Registered ------------------------------ From: "Therese Klodnicki" Date: Wed, 13 Mar 96 12:50:25 UT Subject: I'm new! Hi fellow bread bakers, I am new to the list and I am enjoying it. I wanted to tell you how I recently became enthusiastic about bread machines and then I have a few general questions that I would like to ask you. I am also including a recipe for carrot bread that I successfully made a couple of days ago. My husband is interested in high-tech items and has been wanting to get a bread machine ever since he heard of them many years ago. I never wanted to get one since I have a Kitchen Aid mixer that I have always used to make fresh bread for Sunday dinners. Well, this year I was forced to buy my husband the bread machine for Christmas since, he asked my 3 year old to ask Santa for it for him. I bought a Breadman machine and it came with a book of healthy bread recipes (the carrot recipe is from the book). Thanks to this book, I realized that making fresh bread can help me get my family to eat healthier. My husband is a very finicky eater. He eats very few fruits and vegetables and no legumes at all. My 2 and 4 year old sons seem to be picking up his bad habits. I have always known that we should try to eat more grains, beans, fruits and vegetables to be healthier, but I have always had a tough time getting the rest of my family to eat and try new things. Now, I make fresh bread for dinner every night and try to incorporate as many different healthy items as possible. (My husband almost never uses the machine, as I originally predicted that he wouldn't. He says that is because I took over the machine. Oh well, that's what he gets for trying to use a 3 year old to get what he wants. A present for me!) Does anyone have any great healthy bread recipes that they would like to share? The best ones are those that the rest of the family won't even realize are good for them. They like recipes with whole wheat flour, even though they know that is a little bit good for them, thank goodness. (My machine can make 1, 1 1/2, and 2 pound loafs and has whole wheat cycles.) I am interested in learning more about various grains and flours. Particularly, which ones are the healthiest and can easily be incorporated (and hopefully hidden) into my breads. I would appreciate any comments about specific favorite grains or perhaps, recommendations for good reading material on the subject. I don't have my own grinder, though. Also, I would appreciate any advice or suggestions in adapting recipes. I am not sure how to incorporate other grains into my breads without specific recipes. Are there guidelines to making substitutions? I happened to be in a store that sold some interesting items. I bought the following, because I had heard of them before and I thought they were particularly nutritious. 1. Brown Rice Flour 2. Millet Meal 3. Buckwheat Flour Does anyone know if these grains are actually healthier than the standards? Can anyone suggest ways or recipes in which they can be used? As you can tell, I am very interested in health issues. Does any one know about any other listservs that I may be interested in, particularly about maintaining good health? I appreciate your help and advice. Thank you in advance. Terry CARROT BREAD >From "The Complete Book of Bread Machine Baking" edited by Lara Pizzorno. Prima Publishing (I highly recommend this book.) 1 pound loaf 1 1/2 pound loaf carrot juice 1/3 cup 1/2 cup water 1/2 cup 1/2 cup canola oil 2/3 Tbl 1 Tbl molasses 1 Tbl 1 1/2 Tbl honey 1 Tbl 1 1/2 Tbl salt 1 tsp 1 1/2 tsp grated carrots or carrot pulp from juicing 1/2 cup 3/4 cup whole wheat flour 3/4 cup 1 1/3 cups unbleached flour 2/3 cup 1 cup gluten flour 1 1/2 Tbl 2 Tbl powdered whey 2 tsp 1 Tbl active dry yeast 1 1/2 tsp 2 tsp Put all ingredients in bread pan in the order listed. Use Basic Wheat Cycle, light setting. I don't have a juicer and didn't have any carrot juice handy so I substituted 1/2 applesauce and 1/2 water for the carrot juice. I also used bread flour instead of unbleached all- purpose flour, but I reduced the gluten flour by about a quarter. This bread is sweet and it came out very moist and light. Terry ------------------------------ From: Billy Hatcher <0002040826@mcimail.com> Date: Wed, 13 Mar 96 20:33 EST Subject: Focaccia (Italian Flat Bread) The following is an outstanding recipe for Focaccia from Red Star yeast. The first time I made it, I served it with steaming bowls of seasoned pinto beans and it was great. Enjoy. - - - - - - ITALIAN FLAT BREAD (FOCACCIA) 2 1/2 to 3 c. all purpose flour 1 pkg (2 1/4 t.) active dry yeast or Quick Rise yeast 1 T. sugar 1 t. salt 1 c. very warm water (120 - 130 deg. F) 1 T. oil 1/2 c. chopped onion 2 T. butter or margarine 1/4 t. sugar 1/8 t. salt In large mixer bowl, combine 1 1/2 c. flour, yeast, 1 T. sugar and 1 t. salt; mix well. Add water and oil to flour mixture. Blend at low speed until moistened; beat 3 minutes at medium speed. By hand, gradually stir in enough remaining flour to make a firm dough. Knead on floured surface 5 to 8 minutes, adding flour as needed. Place in greased bowl, turning to grease top. Cover; let rise in warm place about 40 minutes (20 minutes for Quick Rise yeast). Prepare onion topping. In small skillet, saute onion in butter until soft. Stir in 1/3 t. sugar and 1/8 t. salt. Punch down dough. On lightly floured surface, shape dough into a ball. Place on greased cookie sheet. Flatten to a 10-inch circle. With table knife, cut a circle in dough about 1 inch from edge, cutting almost through to cookie sheet. Prick center with a fork. Spread Onion Topping over the pricked dough. Cover; let rise in warm place about 30 minutes (15 minutes for Quick Rise). Bake at 375 deg. for 25 to 30 minutes until golden brown. Variation. Omit Onion Topping. Instead of pricking top, cut a criss-cross design with a sharp knife. Brush bread with an egg glaze made by combining 1 egg yolk and 1 T. milk or water. Sprinkle with sesame seed if desired. - - - - - - Bill Hatcher 204-0826@mcimail.com Southampton County, Virginia, USA ------------------------------ From: Kerry Ogata Date: Wed, 13 Mar 1996 19:50:28 -0500 Subject: Re: Which Yeast Should I Use? >From what I have read, there are several kinds of yeast: active dry, rapid rise, and instant (I'm not too clear on what the difference is between rapid rise and instant). I have also heard that Fleischmann's Bread Machine yeast is the same as their Instant Yeast (yeast + ascorbic acid). The experts (e.g., authors of Bread Machine Magic, Irwin, etc.) advocate using regular, active dry yeast in the bread machine. (Except for SAF instant yeast, which is apparently unlike any other yeast--but that's another story!) Rapid rise and instant are similar (the same?) in that they both supposedly have shorter lifespans and "die" in the long rising/baking cycles of the bread machine. However, I have a Breadman bread machine. I have used Fleischmann's instant yeast (aka Fleischmann's Bread Machine Yeast?) on the whole wheat cycle (complete time = 4 hrs) with no problems. In fact, after a recent conversation with Lois Conway (thanks, Lois!) about different yeasts, I purchased some Red Star active dry yeast and did some comparisons. I baked the exact same loaves of bread (1 plain whole wheat, 1 whole wheat-cinnamon raisin) on the same whole wheat cycle in my Breadman. I let all the ingredients come to room temp for exactly the same amount of time, and used the same measuring cups, etc. I baked 1 loaf of each bread using the Red Star dry active yeast, and 1 loaf of each using the Fleishmann's instant yeast. For yeast measurements, when using Red Star I used the amount called for in the recipes (both recipes were from Bread Machine Magic); for the Fleischmann's Instant (per conversations with Lois) I used 1/2 teaspoon per cup of flour. My husband and I tried both versions of each bread, side by side, and they tasted exactly the same--they were both great! Perhaps I have an unsophisticated palate, but I could NOT tell a difference. And contrary to what I had heard/read, the bread made with Fleischmann's instant yeast rose perfectly (just as high as the Red Star bread) and was the exact same texture as the Red Star bread. I saw no evidence that the "short life span" of the yeast caused any problems. It did perfectly fine in my whole wheat cycle. It may be that the ascorbic acid added to the Fleischmann's instant yeast causes it to perform as well as the Red Star active dry yeast (which has no additives). Ascorbic acid is supposed to help with rising. Perhaps that is why Instant Yeast is marketed as "Bread Machine Yeast." I suppose that some bread machines have quicker cycles (than, say, compared to hand-made bread) so that is also why they are marketing the instant (faster rising) yeast as better for bread machines. (Except for Red Star, which markets the REGULAR active dry as *best* for bread machines). But my bread machine's cycles are all at least 3 1/2 hrs long, so the faster performance isn't an issue. I plan to do the yeast test using the 3 1/2 hr quick cycle (which I hardly ever use) on my bread machine, the dough cycle, and maybe the French Bread cycle (which is exactly the same amount of time as the whole wheat cycle). I will see if I can find any differences between the Fleischmanns Instant and the Red Star active dry on these cycles. Of course I'll keep you all updated unless my husband and I explode from eating too much bread! FYI, I bought 2 lbs of the Fleishmann's instant yeast for $3 at Price Club. The Red Star (unavailable at Price Club) cost $6 for a 1/4 lb. jar at Safeway. Unless I suddenly see a difference in taste or performance, I'm going to keep using the Fleischmann's after I use up the Red Star. So, the point of this long-winded post (sorry!) is that my advice is to try the different yeasts you have bought using the same recipes and baking cycles. See if there is a difference--if not, keep using what is convenient, cheap, etc. Perhaps the fast-rising yeast will work better using the "quick" baking cycle--if so, keep it around for just that cycle, and use the dry active for longer cycles. Experimenting is fun, and you get to eat a lot of yummy bread! Anyway, hope this helps! Kerry ------------------------------ From: Reggie Dwork Date: Sun, 17 Mar 1996 11:39:58 -0800 Subject: Lois's Country Crunch Bread * Exported from MasterCook * Lois's Country Crunch Bread Recipe By : The Bread Machine Magic Book of Helpful Hints Serving Size : 16 Preparation Time :0:00 Categories : Bread Machine Low Fat Amount Measure Ingredient -- Preparation Method - -------- ------------ -------------------------------- 1 1/2 Lb Loaf: -- (1 lb loaf): 1 1/8 C Water -- to 1 1/4 C, -- (7/8 - 1 C) 1 1/2 Tsp Salt -- (1 t) 1/2 Tsp Wonderslim -- *NOTE, (1 t) 1 1/2 Tsp Sugar -- (1 t) 3 C Bread Flour -- (2 C) 2 Tsp Active Dry Yeast -- (1 1/2 t) This chewy loaf is Lois's favorite. NOTE: In the ZO, she had better results when she baked it on the Regular Cycle rather than the French Bread cycle. *NOTE: Original recipe used 1/2 t butter or margarine. I use Wonderslim to reduce the fat content. Place all ingredients in bread pan and press Start. After the baking cycle ends, remove bread from pan, place on cake rack, and allow to cool 1 hr before slicing. Crust: Medium Optional Bake Cycles: French Bread, Rapid Bake or Delayed Timer Variations: Place dough ingredients in bread pan, select Dough setting, and press Start. When the dough has risen long enough, the machine will beep. Turn off bread machine, remove bread pan, and turn out dough onto a lightly floured countertop or cutting board. Shape dough into a 15" log. Sprinkle a cookie sheet with cornmeal. Place dough on cookie sheet and brush with some olive oil. Cover with plastic wrap and refrigerate overnight. Remove from refrigerator, uncover, left stand at room temp one hour. Make 3 diagonal cuts with a sharp knife. Preheat oven to 425 deg F. Bake 25 - 30 min until golden brown. Remove from and cool on cake rack. LOIS'S COUNTRY CRUNCH from The Bread Machine Magic Book of Helpful Hints, Linda Rehberg & Lois Conway, St. Martin's Press This is VERY good!! Entered into MasterCook II and tested for you by Reggie Dwork - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - NOTES : W/wonderslim: Cal 95.8 Fat 0.5g Carb 19.2g Fiber 0.8g Protein 3.3g Sodium 201mg CFF 4.3% ------------------------------ From: jatomlia@prairienet.org (Janet Tomlianovich) Date: Fri, 15 Mar 1996 15:45:12 -0600 (CST) Subject: question re:impropper rising I have been enjoying all the comments and recipes here for some time. Thanks Reggie for all your efforts! Now I need the help of all you expert bread bakers. I have a small Welbuilt machine and have recently started having huge problems getting my loaves to rise propperly. The first recipe had oat flakes in it and didn't rise at all. After reading about having to add gluten with whole grains I tried another loaf of the same recipe adding 1 T gluten per 1 cup oat flakes. It only rose about an inch. Then I made a basic white bread which rose beautifully till the unit started to bake. It collapsed and I had two flat ends. Then tried a whole wheat bread adding the gluten and again it seemed to rise fine till it started to bake. This time it caved in very badly and the top portion didn't bake thoroughly so had to be given to the birds. What am I doing wrong? All of these recipes had been made before and turned out just fine. Could there be a problem with the machine, or is it just me? Any helpful tips you could give me would be greatly appreciated. Please e-mail all responses to me at jatomlia@prairienet.org Thanks in advance for all your help. Janet ------------------------------ From: Alan Deikman Date: Fri, 15 Mar 96 19:59:46 -0800 Subject: Need pointer on whole-wheat bread This is my first post here, so here goes. I have been reading since Digest #60 or so, and have been looking for pointers on how to make a good loaf of whole wheat bread. I have been to a number of restaurants that make their own whole-wheat loaves which are wonderfully light, with a crispy crust and flavorful interior. You don't even need butter. White breads I can do. But every time I try for, say 50-100% whole wheat loaf the results have been less than satisfactory. What I get I call "Utility-B grade State Bread." This is durable maximum density loaf issued by government for the comrade people's nutrition and efficient bowel movement. Surplus good for insulation and erosion fill. Any suggestions? - -------------------------------- Alan Deikman, ZNYX Corporation alan@znyx.com ------------------------------ From: skip Date: Thu, 14 Mar 1996 01:23:02 -0500 Subject: sweet bread I'm looking for a good recipie for portugese sweet bread also known as masa. If anybody has one I'd appreciate a copy. Non machine preferred I do it by hand. skip ------------------------------ From: Cathi Boronkay Date: Sun, 17 Mar 1996 15:03:09 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: bread-bakers-digest V6 #82 Hi! I have been testing some Irish Soda Bread recipes lately ( not just today, St. patrick's Day!). Have found that I really like them. Did one that is really plain - 4 c. flour, 1 1/2 tsp. salt, 1 tsp soda and 2 c. buttermilk. This is delicious. This came from the Marian Cunninham baking book. Also did the next one, a sweeter one with raisins. This was not quite what I was looking for. Anyone have some other recipes they really like? BTW, if anyone hasn't tried them, you can't imagine any bread easier to make. Thanks, Cathi ------------------------------ End of bread-bakers-digest V6 #83 ********************************* bread-bakers-digest Friday, 22 March 1996 Volume 06 : Number 084 Today's Subjects: FW: Hot Cross Buns & Seed Bread Re: bread keeper Re: #82 - Gluten rye flour onion pizza How to store bread? / freezing bread Canadian Flour Re: bread-bakers-digest V6 #82 re: chinese rolls whole wheat bread Adding mix-ins to bread recipe Whole wheat breads Re: bread-bakers-digest V6 #82 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Judith Burley Date: Sun, 17 Mar 1996 15:59:54 -0800 Subject: FW: Hot Cross Buns & Seed Bread Hi: Does someone have a good recipe for traditional Hot Cross Buns? My new daughter in law is English as was going on about being homesick and missing the smell of these baking on Easter morning so i thought I would make her some. Thanks for all your help Oh, I have a Hitachi Bread Machine but also make traditional style every once in a while - just so i won't forget how. And here is a great recipe for Seed Bread from Jan/95 - Canadian Living Magazine. Seed Bread (I have given both large (1&1/2 lbs. Loaf) and small (1 lb. loaf)) In your bread machine place in order given: Large Small Water 1 &1/4 c. 3/4 c. Liquid Honey 2 tbsp. 4 tsp. Vegetable Oil 2 tbsp. 4 tsp. Salt 1&1/2 tsp. 1 tsp. All Purpose Flour 2 c. 1&1/3 c. Whole Wheat Flour 1 c. 2/3 c. Flax Seeds 1/4 c. 3 tbsp. Sesame Seeds 2 tbsp. 4 tsp. Poppy Seeds 1 tbsp. 2 tsp. Yeast - quickacting 2 tsp. 1&1/4 tsp. This smells so wonderful as it bakes - can also be made manually. Judi jburley@worldtel.com ------------------------------ From: bj29@mirage.skypoint.com (bjjan) Date: Sun, 17 Mar 96 19:25 CST Subject: Re: bread keeper In Digest #82 aspaffor@northland.lib.mi.us asked for a specific product by Rubbermaid for storing abm loaves? In the latest Miles Kimball catalog on page 22 is a "Shrinking Bread Keeper" for $5.98. It is not a rubbermaid product but DOES work. I buy 10 at a time and give one with a fresh bread machine loaf as a hostess gift! . You can order a catalog by calling 1-414-231-4886...free shipping and handling on orders over $50. Bev in Mn ------------------------------ From: bj29@mirage.skypoint.com (bjjan) Date: Sun, 17 Mar 96 19:36 CST Subject: Re: #82 - Gluten >From: Rose asked how to use Pure Gluten. In The Bread Machine Magic Book of Helpful Hints it says: "we've learned that adding 1-1/2 teaspoon vital wheat gluten flour per cup of flour in white breads and 1 Tablespoon vital wheat gluten flour per cup of flour in whole-grain breads works best." "For example if the recipe listed 1 Cup of bread flour, 1 cup of whole wheat flour and 1 cup of rye flour, we added 3 Tablespoons of vital wheat gluten as well." (This is basically a whole-grain bread even though there is white flour in it) "As with vital wheat gluten, when adding vital wheat gluten flour to your dough, you may also need to increase the liquid by 1 or 2 tablespoons while it is kneading." ... Bev in Mn ------------------------------ From: owenr@TEN-NASH.TEN.K12.TN.US Date: Sun, 17 Mar 1996 19:39:07 -0600 (CST) Subject: rye flour I am relatively new to this list. Find it very interesting. Have recently started making rye bread and am trying to duplicate the European breads. The one I make is pretty good, but what I really want to know is the different types of rye flour. I have read that there is a light, medium, dark rye. Does anyone know how to distinguish or find? I have asked at my health food store and they just have rye flour. Thanks for the help. Rita Owen owenr@ten.nash.ten.k12.tn.us Springville School K-8 Henry County, TN ------------------------------ From: jguevara@spin.com.mx (Jenka Guevara) Date: Sun, 17 Mar 1996 22:29:48 -0600 (CST) Subject: onion pizza >From fatfree i obtained the following recipe: Onion Marmalade Recipe By : Julee Rosso's Great Good Food Serving Size : 16 Preparation Time :0:00 Categories : Low-Fat Pizza Vegetables Amount Measure Ingredient -- Preparation Method - - -------- ------------ -------------------------------- 2 tablespoons favorite broth 12 cups yellow onions -- thinly sliced 1/4 cup balsamic vinegar In a large saucepan over medium-high heat, warm the broth. Add the onion, cover, and cook until translucent and very soft, about 45 minutes. Uncover, lower the heat, and simmer for 1 hour, stirring periodically. Add the vinegar and cook until the onion is caramelized, about 1 hour longer. Use immediately, or store in a glass or plastic container in the refrigerator for up to 10 days. Makes 2 cups. Use as a pizza topping. Per 2 T. serving: 41 calories, .2 g fat, 3.4%CFF. Sorry for the name of the person who send it. She commented she had used it for pizza, and included the pizza recipe, I did not save that. Well, today I made 1/2 of my normal whole wheat bread recipe, and while it was rising, I started a sort of above recipe. I put apple juice in a pan, and then added 16 normal sliced onions. I did not know what yellow onions were. After a while, long while, when they became transparent I added some lemon juice, then I let them cook and cook for over an hour. I did not know what it meant that they would caramelize, (help accepted here) so when there was no more liquid I put them over my dough, which I had stretched out and had left about 1/2 hour to rise again, already stretched. Then I put half of the onions on the dough and put it for 20 mins in a very hot oven, then 10 mins in the broiler (that thing at the bottom of the oven that makes things nice and if not careful burns them!) The result was delicious. I will make the other half of onions in a pizza next week. We had that with a cucumber salad, it was great. Jenka ********************************* Jenka Guevara American School Foundation Mexico City jguevara@spin.com.mx ------------------------------ From: Joan Mathew Date: Sun, 17 Mar 1996 18:48:01 -0800 Subject: How to store bread? / freezing bread >From: AKACarl@aol.com >Date: Sat, 9 Mar 1996 12:55:25 -0500 >Subject: How to store bread? > >Wonder why nobody seems to suggest freezing. When bread is cool, I slice >and package it in ZipLock plastic bags and freeze it. This works fine and >stays fresh indefinitely. There are only two of us and we like to have three >or four kinds of bread available. Hi Clare, Well, *somebody* does suggest freezing...me! :) I also have been doing this for the last 5 years I've been making bread, with wonderful results! The key phrase in your note is "when the bread is cool". This is very important, because otherwise the moisture will cause condensation inside the bag and cause the bread to become somewhat soggy (yuck). I don't even slice up the bread, but just put the whole loaves into big 2-gallon sized Ziploc bags. In a pinch, these are nice to take to potlucks, or to give as a gift if you're invited to someone's house for dinner at the last minute, etc. I just make sure I take them out of the freezer at least 4 hours prior to using them and they are just fine. When I take them out of the freezer, I leave the Ziploc bag completely sealed and just put the whole package on the kitchen counter. That's where my bread stays until it's all used up, generally. Those Ziploc bags are marvellous inventions, aren't they?! :) Joan cmathew@iadfw.net http://www.geocities.com/RainForest/1514 ------------------------------ From: Stephanie Malone Thorson Date: Mon, 18 Mar 1996 09:32:19 +0000 (GMT) Subject: Canadian Flour > From: mvinqvist@mta.ca > Date: Mon, 11 Mar 1996 10:33:55 -0400 > Subject: Canadian all-purpose vs bread flour > > Hi everybody, > > I just read in my Canadian Living (and they surely wouldn't lie :-) ) that > Canadian grown/milled flour has a high enough protein content that you don't > need to use bread flour in your baking. I (yep, a Canadian) have always > used all-purpose flour rather than bread flour for hand and machine-made > breads and results have always been fine. So I thought I would pass that > info on...therefore, if you are Canadian and are buying bread flour, just > for fun why don't you try the all-purpose and see if you like it. It's my understanding that North American wheats (grown in the US and Canada both) are hard wheats (ie, high gluten) and that the all-purpose flour available in both countries, which is made from the hard wheats, is therefore perfectly acceptable for bread-making. In places where the local wheats are "soft" (low-gluten), special "bread flour" must be used. I don't know the trade secrets, but I suspect "bread flour" is either ground from hard wheats or has additional gluten added. I'm an American, and I always baked with all-purpose flour at home, and made very fine bread, too. Here in Britain, the local wheats are soft, so I have to use bread flour to get a high rising loaf. I think Elizabeth David treats the issue of hard and soft wheats in some detail in her _English Bread and Yeast Cookery_, which is well worth a look if you can get your hands on it. - --Stephanie ***************************************************************************** Stephanie M. Thorson * SCA: Lady Alianora Munro University of St Andrews * St Andrews, Scotland * Clan White Wing email smt2@st-andrews.ac.uk * Tarkhan, Khanate Red Lion ***************************************************************************** ------------------------------ From: Kent Campbell Date: Mon, 18 Mar 1996 08:18:41 -0600 Subject: Re: bread-bakers-digest V6 #82 Just worked out a Rye Bread recipe that I will share. First of all, though, after MUCH frustration in trying to perfect a Rye Bread recipe, I have determined that the flour is the most important thing. I started using Hodgson Mills whole grain, and it is much to coursely ground. I ended up with bricks and door stoppers. It was HORRIBLE. I am now using a different brand, I can't think of the name now, but they also make the whole wheat pastry flour I buy. It is much finer ground and I am sure must have a higher gluten content. I make all of my bread by hand, as I can't convince myself to have another appliance on the kitchen counter. Well, here is the recipe: 1 package fast rising yeast 1 1/2 cups fine ground rye flour 3 1/2 to 4 cups white bread flour 2 teaspoons sugar 1 cup skim milk and 1 cup tap water, combined 1/4 cup warm (100 degree) water 1 4 oz jar pureed prunes baby food Dissolve the yeast in the water with the sugar and allow to proof. Mix the prunes with the combined milk and water. Combine the flours in a bowl and stir well. In a separate bowl, start with the yeast and milk/prune mixture, and stir well. Add three cups of flour mixture, and stir till well mixed. Add 2 cups of flour mixture on top and work in with your hands. You may want to put some flour directly on your hands and wring them like you are washing them with the flour, this will help remove the goo from your fingers. Work in as much of the flour mixture as you can. Knead on a floured board for 5 to 7 minutes, until it is elastic. Place in a lightly sprayed bowl, cover with plastic wrap and a towel, and let rise till double. 1 to 1 1/2 hours depending on the temp of your kitchen! Punch down, reshape, and place in a 3 quart casserole dish that is sprayed and coated with cornmeal. Bake at 375 for 40 to 45 minutes. Cover with a towel for about 30 minutes after removing from oven, this will help make the crust soft. You may want to add caraway, anise, or fennel seeds to this recipe. I used caraway, and liked it a lot. Kent Campbell kencam@pobox.com _ _ _ (_) | | ( ) _____| | _____ ____ ____ _____ ____ |/ | _ _)| ___ || _ \ / ___)(____ || \ | | \ \ | ____|| | | |( (___ / ___ || | | | |_| \_)|_____)|_| |_| \____)\_____||_|_|_| ------------------------------ From: deb@essences.com (Deborah Bier) Date: Mon, 18 Mar 1996 09:18:12 -0500 Subject: re: chinese rolls Honasoge Dayananda wrote: >If anybody has the recipe for the Chinese Sweet >dinner rolls could you please post it. Hello: Here is an approximate recipe. I have made them (and bbq pork pastries, etc) by using a regular white bread recipe, and letting it rise once. Then, I roll out small balls of it until they are about 6" wide (about 1/4" or less thick). Using sweet bean paste (made from soy beans and purchased at a chinese grocery) I put a tablespoon or so of the paste in middle. Gather up all the edges to the middle and twist closed. Set onto a steamer rack twisted side up. Steam til done (gosh, can I remember how long that is?? i am guess from memory, so don't take me at my word)...maybe about 15 minutes? perhaps 20. Hope this helps more than confuses! best Deborah Bier Concord, MA ------------------------------ From: deb@essences.com (Deborah Bier) Date: Mon, 18 Mar 1996 09:22:46 -0500 Subject: whole wheat bread Alan Deikman wrote: >>What I get I call "Utility-B grade State Bread." This is durable maximum density loaf issued by government for the comrade people's nutrition and efficient bowel movement. Surplus good for insulation and erosion fill. Any suggestions?>> Yes, Alan: the surplus is also good for putting your car up on blocks... ;-) What TYPE of flour are you using? Perhaps you need a higher gluten flour or some other type of dough conditioner? Best-Deborah Bier Concord, MA ------------------------------ From: Linda Kosidlo Date: Mon, 18 Mar 96 09:48:46 EST Subject: Adding mix-ins to bread recipe Hi All - This weekend I tried a whole wheat bread recipe in my bread machine that called for adding raisins and walnuts during the "mix-in" phase (about 15 minutes after the first mixing/kneading phase). I did this as instructed, but the result was poor. The raisins all sunk to the bottom of the loaf, completly covering the bottom of the bread. How are these things supposed to be added to the machine so they don't all sink to the bottom? It seems like an odd question, I know, but I followed the recipe exactly and got these awful results. BTW - I have a 1 1/2 lb Oster bread machine. This machine was an upgrade sent to me after I contacted Oster-Sunbeam about my 1 lb Sunbeam bread maker that ceased to operate after only 5 months. I sent it back for repair and they sent me this new one! The white bread loaf mix that came with the machine was excellent, but their recipe book that comes with the machine makes bread that is just so-so. PS - no affiliation with this company, but their customer service was extremely helpful and I'm very happy with the way they handled my problem. Linda K. in MA linda@mc.com ------------------------------ From: "Therese Klodnicki" Date: Mon, 18 Mar 96 21:52:21 UT Subject: Whole wheat breads Alan Deikman asked for some good whole wheat bread recipes. Here are a few that my picky family loves. Also, I read somewhere that some bread machines cannot handle whole wheat loaves. Maybe this is Alan's problem. 100% WHEAT BREAD "The Complete Book of Bread Machine Baking", edited by Lara Pizzorno I don't know where they get the title since this is not 100% WW. However, I have been told that this is the best bread that I have made so far by two different sources. The crust has a nice crunch and the bread is light with a delicious flavor. 1 pound loaf 1 1/2 pound loaf water 1 cup 1 1/4 cups salt 1 tsp 1 1/2 tsp canola oil 1 1/2 Tbl 2 Tbl honey 1 1/4 Tbl 2 Tbl whole wheat flour 1 1/2 cups 2 1/8 cups unbleached flour 2/3 cup 3/4 cup gluten glour 2 Tbl 3 Tbl wheat germ 1 1/2 Tbl 2 Tbl powdered whey 1 1/4 tsp 2 Tbl active dry yeast 2 tsp 1 Tbl This book emphasizes healthy breads, that is why they suggest canola instead of vegetable oil, unbleached flour instead of all purpose flour, and why they add wheat germ. I don't doubt that you can easily substitute. OATMEAL WHEAT BREAD "The Complete Book of Bread Machine Baking", edited by Lara Pizzorno Another good one...chewier with a slightly different flavor. 1 pound loaf 1 1/2 pound loaf water 3/4 cup 1 1/8 cups salt 1 tsp 2 tsp canola oil 2 tsp 1 Tbl honey 2 tsp 1 Tbl unbleached flour 3/4 cup 1 cup whole wheat flour 3/4 cup 1 1/4 cups wheat germ 1 Tbl 1 1/2 Tbl oats 1/3 cup 1/2 cup powdered whey 1 Tbl 1 1/2 Tbl active dry yeast 1 1/2 tsp 2 tsp YOGURT WHOLE WHEAT BREAD "Healthy Bread Recipes & menu planner" Salton/Maxim Housewares, Inc. (This book came with my Breadman machine.) This bread is not quite as sweet as the typical whole wheat bread with honey. You can definitely taste the yogurt and the maple syrup. It has a nice flavor and is one of my favorites. 1 1/2 pound loaf 2 pound loaf plain nonfat yogurt 3/4 cup 1 cup water 1/4 cup 1/2 cup vegetable oil 1 Tbl 1 1/2 Tbl maple syrup 1 1/2 Tbl 2 Tbl whole wheat flour 1 1/8 cups 1 1/2 cups bread flour 1 2/3 cup 2 1/4 cups wheat germ 1 1/2 Tbl 2 Tbl salt 1 tsp 1 tsp dry yeast 1 1/2 tsp 2 tsp GARBANZO BREAD (PINTO BREAD) "The Complete Book of Bread Machine Baking", edited by Lara Pizzorno Believe it or not, this bread is delicious and light. My husband raved about it. I didn't dare tell him what was in it! I didn't have any garbanzo beans so I used pinto beans. I also substituted sugar for the sucanat. I was out of gluten flour so I used bread flour in place of half of the whole wheat flour. With half bread flour, the loaf I made- that was nice and light- probably had a significantly different texture than it would have had otherwise. 1 pound loaf 1 1/2 pound loaf water 3/4 cup + 1Tbl 1 1/4 cups canola oil 2/3 Tbl 1 Tbl Sucanat 2 tsp 1 Tbl lemon juice 2 tsp 1 Tbl cooked garbanzo beans 2/3 cup 1 cup salt 1 tsp 1 1/4 tsp whole wheat flour 2 cups 3 cups gluten flour 1 1/2 Tbl 2 Tbl powdered whey 1 1/2 Tbl 2 Tbl active dry yeast 1 1/2 tsp 2 tsp I hope you enjoy these breads as much as we do! Terry ------------------------------ From: rbparker@henning.cfa.org (Ron Parker) Date: Mon, 18 Mar 1996 18:02:00 -0600 Subject: Re: bread-bakers-digest V6 #82 Al Sroka asked: >French Bread/Baguettes as baked in New Orleans have an airy pile seldom >equalled. Vacuoles one inch in diameter are common, giving the baguette >unusual lightness.If any list member has information how this result is >achieved I would appreciate the recipe, particularly details such as: > > >1.-Is it made by straight dough or sponge&dough method? > 2.-Flour specification and any protein (Vital Gluten) addition > 3.- Yeast, type as % of flour >4.-Yeast food if used as % of flour >5.- Dough conditioner, type as % of flour >6.-Any special notes on dough development and baking process >. >Since I live in the San Francisco area any comments on suppliers will be >appreciated. I make a pretty good baguette (non commercial). I live in Minnesota where I have bread flour that is high gluten and all that stuff readily available. That is a problem, not a solution. For a classic baguette the flour should be low gluten. I use about a third or even a half Softasilk (tm) cake flour to balance off the high gluten of the hard spring wheat flours here. I also use the long rise, starting with 1 half tsp max of dry yeast, and let the dough rise for anyway 3-6 hours. I do the mixing and rising in a DAK BM, then form the loaves and put them in a lightly greased and cornmealed blue steel baguette pan to rise a bit more. Slash and put in a 400 oven with lots of steam from a pan of water plus spray with more every 5 minutes or so. May your vacuoles be splendid. Nothing fancy, plain dry yeast, no odd additives - a basic flour, water, yeast, dash of salt mix. The soft, cake flour is the New Orleans secret (maybe). ------------------------------ End of bread-bakers-digest V6 #84 ********************************* bread-bakers-digest Friday, 22 March 1996 Volume 06 : Number 085 Today's Subjects: Re: I'm new!--Healthy Breads bread-bakers-digest V6 #82 "greasing" bread pans package mix duplication Hitachi Bread Pan Re: bread-bakers-digest V6 #83 bread machines Multichef Breadmaker response Swedish Limpa Bread.. [none] Good Crust Returned mail: unknown mailer error 2 Re: Need pointer on whole-wheat bread Honey whole wheat - no fat Hot Cross Buns ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "S. Shimeall" Date: Mon, 18 Mar 1996 18:06:30 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: I'm new!--Healthy Breads Therese Klodnicki asked: > Does anyone have any great healthy bread recipes that they would like to > share? The best ones are those that the rest of the family won't even realize > are good for them. They like recipes with whole wheat flour, even though they > know that is a little bit good for them, thank goodness. (My machine can make > 1, 1 1/2, and 2 pound loafs and has whole wheat cycles.) Make sure you find web address http://www.fatfree.com Click on the searchable recipe index and then click on bread machine recipes. These are great, healthy breads! Priscilla stephans@u.washington.edu ------------------------------ From: BreadMagician@prodigy.com ( LINDA REHBERG) Date: Mon, 18 Mar 1996 23:43:34 -0800 Subject: bread-bakers-digest V6 #82 To Lynda: If your machine isn't that old, you ought to check with your manufacturer first. Several companies have had problems with their bread pans, loaves that get stuck and have to be pried out. You shouldn't ever have to do that....unless the pan is very old and the finish has worn off. So it's worth a call....it may be that you have a defective pan. To Susan: Congratulations on the new addition to your home! You'll have many years of happy baking with your Zoji plus the added bonus of coming into contact with a great guy like Irwin. I've seen Irwin recommend that the Zoji be left unplugged, especially if you have problems with power surges. We don't so I tend to leave it plugged in unless we're going to be gone for several days or we're having a thunderstorm. The surge protector is a good idea. I do not store the paddle/plug in the cup. I put it back in the pan after washing to avoid mistakes when I go to make the next batch of bread. Yes, the cup and spoon can be stored in the machine during baking. Funny, I wondered about that one, too. Linda Rehberg ------------------------------ From: TLMVC@aol.com Date: Tue, 19 Mar 1996 15:14:47 -0500 Subject: "greasing" bread pans Laura asked about "greasing" the pan of a bread machine because her loaves were sticking to the pan after baking. I too had this problem until I started rubbing the inside of the pan with shortening and also spraying with Pam. For some reason this seems to work much better than either one alone. Terri Matchett TLMVC@aol.com ------------------------------ From: Bonnie Pollack Date: Tue, 19 Mar 1996 21:12:05 -0500 (EST) Subject: package mix duplication I often would like to prepare a mix of my own so when in a hurry I can have everything ready to make bread in my brdadmaker. I have bought the mixes (prepackaged in different varieties ) and have wondered how they avoid using liquids or oils. Usually the package instruction just say add water (1 cup). How do they substitute for oils, butter etc? A quick second question. Since I have gotten my breadmachine in January I have make a different loaf everyday. I cannot make any of the breads with raisins---loaf too small. I have tried 3 boxed mixes and three recipes from scratch following the cookbooks to the letter. How can I get a decent sized loaf. I have a 2 lb Toastmaster #1195 and have had no problems other than raisins. I have added them at the cycle bell and even tried at the beginning. Bonnie ------------------------------ From: "John E. Johns" Date: Wed, 20 Mar 1996 16:00:04 -0500 Subject: Hitachi Bread Pan Hitachi Bread Pan Barbara Geiger asked about a frozen shaft on an Hitachi HB-B101. I just had a similar problem with the pan from an HB-B201. I turned the pan over, removed the C-clip and took off the piece with ears which engages the mechanism in the bottom of the bread maker. With a mallet, I tapped the shaft until it fell out, using a punch when it got level with the bushing. I cleaned everything including the gasket part which shows around the shaft inside the pan. I lubricated the shaft with petroleum jelly and reassembled everything. I have baked three loaves since and it has worked fine. John ------------------------------ From: Marta Martin Date: Wed, 20 Mar 1996 21:58:18 -0500 Subject: Re: bread-bakers-digest V6 #83 A few weeks ago a member of this mailing list offered to send me her grandmother's tortilla recipe. I then suffered acute technical failure and ended up being off line for about three weeks. When I signed back on I had 1742 messages and there was no way I could download them all without blowing up my computer. I had to have the local server go in and delete everything, so...to make a long story short, I didn't get the recipe and would still love to have it. BTW...in response to someone asking about a Rubbermaid Bread Machine Loaf Keeper....Tupperware makes a marvelous one. I have two of them! Marta Martin ========================================================================= Marta Martin-(marta@citynet.net) "This isn't flying.......it's falling with style." Buzz Lightyear from the movie Toy Story Success is not forever, and failure is not fatal. Don Shula Do not fear for I am with you, Do not be dismayed for I am your God. Isaiah 41:10 Shake your hips and hope for the best. Camille, age 9 ========================================================================= ------------------------------ From: Cynthia Ann Hinson Date: Thu, 21 Mar 1996 08:35:34 -0500 (EST) Subject: bread machines Could anyone tell me what bread machine makes/models would be good for a big family? I'm lost in the wilderness of brand names and functions!!! Thanks, Cindy Hinson ------------------------------ From: ardee@inforamp.net Date: Thu, 21 Mar 1996 21:28:58 -0500 (EST) Subject: Multichef Breadmaker I live in Toronto Canada and own a Multichef Breadmaker model BM-1, purchased locally well over five years ago. Multichef was a licensed name of the Weil Company, that is no longer in business. I am trying to find out the real manufacturer of the machine to locate a replacement pan. The only other thing I know is that the machine was made in Japan. Can anyone help? Regards, Ruth Drake ------------------------------ From: LoisCon@aol.com Date: Thu, 21 Mar 1996 23:42:29 -0500 Subject: response Janet asked about problems with her Welbilt. We'd like to help Janet but need more details such as the model of the bread machine, what recipe you used, etc. If you contact me at LoisCon@AOL.com, I will try and help you. Sheri asked about Rubbermaid products for storing bread machine loaves. Sheri we really love our Wanda's Bread Box. It holds a large loaf of bread and keeps it fresh longer than anything else we have tried. You can find Wanda's bread box at Williams Sonoma stores. ------------------------------ From: Craig Date: Fri, 22 Mar 1996 00:08:44 -0800 Subject: Swedish Limpa Bread.. I was raised in a Swedish household which thrived on bread bought from a local bakery. It was called Limpa and now that I have a bread machine and no longer buy store bought bread I would love to have a recipe for my machine in order to make this delicious bread. e-mail me at cwp007@ix.netcom.com if you can help, [Editor's Note: Please post these to the list also...I would love to try them...Reggie] Thanks , Craig ------------------------------ From: lcw@cci.com (Lori Wershing) Date: Fri, 22 Mar 1996 00:09:20 -0800 Subject: [none] Hi everyone, I've been reading this digest for a while now and this is my first post! I have 3 distinct requests for info - any help would be appreciated! I've recently gotten back "into" bread baking - for reasons too numerous to go through. I've been reading and scrutinizing the recipes posted looking for low-cal AND low-fat recipes. Low-fat seems to be easy, low-cal on the other hand is a professional bakers mystery. If anyone has insight or recipes which fit the bill (50cals or less per slice), I'd love to see them. I've been experimenting with Rye breads. I tried a German dark rye with caraway - too dense....then I tried just a plain old Rye - good texture, light taste, wrong shape. It said to bake it on a cookie sheet - made a great loaf of bread which is not conducive to sandwiches. (I ended up cutting it horizontally, then in sections!) My question to all you experts is: can any recipe be baked in a bread pan? Is there a trick to this? Does anyone have any great recipes for Rye which use a bread pan? I've recently purchased diastatic malt powder and vital wheat gluten from King Arthur Flour - these products really seem to help! Any hints or words or wisdom from past experience? Thanks - I hope I can become a contributor soon. I do have an awesome Oatmeal & Molasses Bread recipe if anyone is interested (and, no, it is not low-fat, low-cal - it is from the days prior to losing these 75+ pounds!). Lori. ------------------------------ From: Tom Thalmann Date: Fri, 22 Mar 1996 00:09:24 -0800 Subject: Good Crust A new bakery has just opened nearby. I am jealous of the great crust their bread has; they have a hard cursted french bread that is excellent. How do I get a crust like that? I've been baking bread on and off for twenty years (no bread machine). The key, I'm sure is in the oven. What type of oven is best? A good commercial oven would be great but within most folks budget. Thanks Tom Thalmann ------------------------------ From: Mail Delivery Subsystem Date: Fri, 22 Mar 1996 00:37:48 -0800 Subject: Returned mail: unknown mailer error 2 From: "Sherry Barwick" Date: Wed, 20 Mar 1996 14:39:33 EST Subject: Help! - Yeast Question I'm a new bread machine owner and all this talk of yeast has me confused and I think I'm goofed on my latest purchase. I headed off to Sam's after hearing after the good deals on yeast there. I purchased two 16 oz. packages of Red Star Instant Active Dry Yeast for $3.46. I thought I got a great deal until I got into the car and began to read the label which says "for food service". Have I bought yeast that I can't use in my bread machine? It has this lengthy conversion table on the side which makes no sense to me but I think the fact that it's "instant" active dry yeast is important. Any and all help would be greatly appreciated. Please e-mail me directly since I'll be waiting on information before I try this and ruin my bread! - ---------------------------------- Sherry Barwick Administrative Assistant Clayton State College P. O. Box 285 Morrow, GA 30260 barwick@dd.csc.peachnet.edu ------------------------------ From: judi@abs.net (Judi Hammett) Date: Fri, 22 Mar 1996 11:06:34 -0500 Subject: Re: Need pointer on whole-wheat bread >This is my first post here, so here goes. I have been reading since >Digest #60 or so, and have been looking for pointers on how to make >a good loaf of whole wheat bread. Hi, I'm fairly new here, and thought it was time to come out of lurk mode! I've had great success making a whole wheat bread based on a recipe from "Whole Foods for the Whole Family." Here's how I make it: 2 T. yeast 2 c. warm water 2-4 T. honey, molasses, or sugar 2 t. salt 1/4 c. oil 3 eggs 6-8 c. whole wheat flour Dissolve yeast in warm water with 1 t. honey. After it bubbles up, add remaining honey, salt, oil, and 3 c. of flour. Beat by hand 200 strokes (this strengthens the gluten and makes the bread rise more easily). Add 1 more cup of flour and beat briefly. Now you have the "sponge." Cover bowl and let sponge rise for about an hour until doubled in bulk(I put the bowl on an old heating pad set on low, and this works great). Add eggs and remaining flour until a soft dough results. Knead for about 10-15 minutes. Place dough in greased bowl, cover, and let rise until doubled in bulk. Punch down the dough, shape into two loaves, and put in two loaf pans. Let rise until doubled, then bake in 350 degree oven for 35 minutes. If you try this, let me know how it works. Judi Hammett Baltimore, Maryland - ---------------------- judi@abs.net ------------------------------ From: Reggie Dwork Date: Fri, 22 Mar 1996 18:08:22 -0800 Subject: Honey whole wheat - no fat Here is a pretty tasty loaf that I made the other day. Reggie * Exported from MasterCook * Honey Whole Wheat - No Fat Recipe By : The Bread Machine CookBook III, Donna Rathmell German Serving Size : 16 Preparation Time :0:00 Categories : Bread Machine Fatfree Grains Amount Measure Ingredient -- Preparation Method - -------- ------------ -------------------------------- 1 1/2 Lb Loaf: -- (1 Lb Loaf): 1 1/8 C Water -- (3/4 C) 3 Tbsp Honey -- (2 T) 1/3 Tsp Salt -- (1/4 T) 1 1/2 C Whole-Wheat Flour -- (1 C) 1 1/2 C Bread Flour -- (1 C) 1 1/2 Tsp Active Dry Yeast -- (1 T) Setting: Medium Cycle: White; timer This is very tasty. Entered into MasterCook and tested for you by Reggie Dwork reggie@jeff-and-reggie.com - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - ------------------------------ From: sherae@zeta.org.au (Sheri McRae) Date: Sat, 23 Mar 1996 17:03:54 +1100 Subject: Hot Cross Buns Do you have a bread machine recipe for hot cross buns? I'm seeing them in the grocery store and don't want to break my record of not buying bread since I bought my wonderful bread maker. Cheers, Sheri Sheri McRae sherae@zeta.org.au Our comedies are not to be laughed at. - movie mogul Samuel Goldwyn ------------------------------ End of bread-bakers-digest V6 #85 *********************************