bread-bakers-digest Saturday, 30 December 1995 Volume 06 : Number 055 Today's Subjects: Re: bread-bakers-digest V6 #54 "falling" bread PEPPER/FENNEL BREAD Gluten Re:Gluten Re: bread-bakers-digest V6 #54 RE: Yeast-free breads Altering recipes for machine bulk yeast Burned Bread Bread Machine Differences Re:Order of adding things Re: Yeast-free breads store bought mixes rising Re: VITAL WHEAT GLUTEN bread questions Wheat-free recipies Re: Honey and maple syrup in bread machine Re: Yeast-free breads Stollen Potato Bread Re: Converting "real" recipes to bread machine ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Blueiis1@aol.com Date: Sun, 24 Dec 1995 15:52:01 -0500 Subject: Re: bread-bakers-digest V6 #54 Bill, I had the Welbuilt 1.5 lb machine. At first it worked great, then burned bread, doorstops, etc. I now have a ZO, what a difference! Debbie ------------------------------ From: UmTarek@aol.com Date: Wed, 27 Dec 1995 00:56:57 -0500 Subject: "falling" bread Hello, fellow bread bakers-- I'm having a problem with bread in my machine. It rises beautifully, but when it begins to bake, it "falls", leaving the top wrinkled. The taste and texture of the bread are very good, but the appearance lacks something. Any suggestions? Kim ------------------------------ From: CHEFLZ@aol.com Date: Sun, 24 Dec 1995 13:49:14 -0500 Subject: PEPPER/FENNEL BREAD GOOD, BUT SOMEWHAT SPICY: FOR 1.5 LB. MACHINES: use a Light Whole Wheat Recipe(or White), BUT also add 2t. Fennel Seeds,2t. onion flakes,2t. pepper.& 2t. Granulated Garlic Powder,& then proceed to mix,knead etc.(in the machine). COMMENTS, QUESTIONS, OR COMPLAINTS? SEND TO: CHEFLZ@AOL.COM ------------------------------ From: Joel.Ehrlich@salata.com (Joel Ehrlich) Date: 27 Dec 95 07:43:56 -0800 Subject: Gluten ow> From: CHEFLZ@aol.com ow> Date: Tue, 19 Dec 1995 12:04:03 -0500 ow> Subject: VITAL WHEAT GLOUTEN(SP?) ow> If you use Vital Wheat Glouten(sp?) in regular unbleached flour, do ow> you need to use "Bread" Flour? No. One (level) tablespoon of gluten per cup of (U.S.) unbleached (all-purpose) flour is a good equivalent of (U.S.) "Bread" flour or (Canadian) "Strong" flour. Joel ------------------------------ From: aa122@detroit.freenet.org (John F Davis) Date: Sun, 24 Dec 1995 13:40:56 -0500 Subject: Re:Gluten LARRY ZIEGLER CHEFLZ@AOL.COM Asked: >>If you use Vital Wheat Glouten(sp?) in regular unbleached flour, do you need >>to use "Bread" Flour? The answer is usually NO. The major difference between the two flours is the amount of Gluten in them so if you are adding Gluten you are basically making the "All Purpose" stuff into "Bread" flour. - -- John F Davis In Delightful Detroit, Mi. aa122@detroit.freenet.org "Nothing adds excitement to your life like something that is clearly none of your business!" Battista ------------------------------ From: AFV63@aol.com Date: Sat, 23 Dec 1995 11:44:33 -0500 Subject: Re: bread-bakers-digest V6 #54 Vital Wheat Gluten is a good addition to a bread formula and yes, you can use it with regular flour in place of bread flour. Usual usage rate is about 0.01-0.02 lb of Vital Wheat Gluten to 1 lb of flour but it varies depending on the type of bread you're making and the amount of dough development you're looking for. Use a lot if you're planning to make something like hearth breads or bagels which require the product hold it's own shape. Also use higher levels in a formula that has whole wheat flour or other grains or fruits to "dilute" the flour. You have to experiment a bit to get the right level for the formula you're working with. ------------------------------ From: Dave Hastings Date: Sat, 23 Dec 1995 09:18:21 -0800 Subject: RE: Yeast-free breads | From: bj3@ix.netcom.com (BJ) | Subject: Yeast-free breads | | In the recent past (or as far back as you can conveniently go), has anyone | submitted yeast-free bread recipes that you could forward to me??? I don't know if this is the sort of thing you're looking for, but the _Joy of Cooking_ has a couple of recipies for salt-rising bread. One based on potato pulp, and one on stone ground corn meal. Let me know if you can't get access to a copy of the book. I've never made either. I'm new here, so a short introduction is probably in order. I'm Dave Hastings. I live in the Seattle area (Carntion actually) I bake bread by hand (large bowl, large wooden spoon). - -daveh - -------------------- Dave Hastings daveh@microsoft.com I don't speak for Microsoft ------------------------------ From: esther@rochgte.fidonet.org (Esther Vail) Date: Sat, 30 Dec 1995 13:08:55 -0800 Subject: Altering recipes for machine If you want to shape and bake the loaf manually after the machine has gone through the dough process, I have found no changes to be necessary, even for breads which include more flour than you would normally use in your machine. For a bread to be baked all the way in the machine, again, I have found no changes to be necessary other than to be sure you're not trying to use more flour than your machine can handle. This means finding recipes of about the right size, or perhaps cutting a recipe in half. This may not be true for all machines, but it has served me well in the original DAK machine (same as Welbilt). Naturally, in either case, you will place the ingredients in the machine in the same order you use for the recipes that come with the machine. Esther H. Vail, Rochester NY USA (esther@rochgte.fidonet.org) ------------------------------ From: amy@best.com Date: Sat, 23 Dec 1995 11:18:46 -0900 Subject: bulk yeast Ephraim Vishniac wrote: > LoisCon mentioned storing Red Star bulk yeast for a year in the > freezer. A friend sent me three vacuum-packed one-pound packages of > Fleischmann's yeast about a year and a half ago, and it's still > working fine. I keep the unopened packages in the freezer. When I open > one, I divide it into tight-sealing plastic containers and return all > but a few weeks' worth to the freezer. It seems to be keeping > perfectly. I've had good luck with bulk yeast also. I store a small portion in the fridge in a tupperware container, and keep the rest in the freezer. Every couple of months I proof some yeast before using it to make sure it is still active. My current yeast supply is over a year old now (those vacuum-pack bags go a long way). Even if you can't use the whole bag before it loses its strength, at about $2.50/lb at Costco it is still more economical than purchasing the 3-packet strips. Amy ------------------------------ From: Joel.Ehrlich@salata.com (Joel Ehrlich) Date: 27 Dec 95 07:48:13 -0800 Subject: Burned Bread ow> From: BILL.FLAVIN ow> Date: 20 Dec 95 11:21:49 EDT ow> Subject: Burned bread??? ow> Hi all, ow> I need some help. I've had and used the small Wel-Bilt machine ow> for about a year. Over that time, I've had very few failures. ow> Generally, I make the basic egg bread with additions such as ow> garlic, onion, oregano, chiles, cheese, etc. Occasionally, I'll ow> try something exotic. The problem is that of late, almost all the ow> loaves have come out extremely well done, almost burned. ow> The inside of the bread is ok -- a bit too dry -- but the crust ow> is way too dark, even on the light setting. And they don't seem ow> to be rising quite as much. Any ideas will be appreciated. You haven't given us much with which to work but... It almost sounds like your dough may be too dry causing your bread not to rise enough. With the Wel-Bilt and DAK machines I've noticed that, if the pan isn't fulled, all the heat gets applied to the part of the pan holding the bread. That gets too hot and the crust gets too dark. Joel ------------------------------ From: Joel.Ehrlich@salata.com (Joel Ehrlich) Date: 27 Dec 95 07:53:43 -0800 Subject: Bread Machine Differences ow> From: cmathew@iadfw.net (Craig & Joan Mathew) ow> Date: Sun, 17 Dec 1995 09:19:18 -0600 (CST) ow> Subject: ??re: adding ingredients in bread machine ow> Hi all, ow> Although I don't own a bread machine (I use my KitchenAid Proline or ow> Cuisinart 14-cup for kneading), I often read the posts about bread ow> machines with interest, and sometimes pick up some nice recipes. ow> As I was reading the snippet above, I wondered why there would be ow> any particular sequence listed in adding ingredients to a bread ow> machine? I understand that perhaps things like raisins would go in ow> later, toward the end of the kneading cycle. Other than keeping the ow> salt away from the yeast, why would the initial sequence make any ow> difference? Is there some mechanical architecture to these bread ow> machines that mandates it? ow> Just wondering, When making bread by hand, you proof the yeast before adding it to the liquid ingredients. You also mix the dry ingredients into the liquid ingredients. In a bread machine, you do not proof the yeast. You combine the ingredients and start the machine. There is much greater opportunity for the salt to adversely affect the yeast under those circumstances. Joel ------------------------------ From: aa122@detroit.freenet.org (John F Davis) Date: Sun, 24 Dec 1995 13:42:16 -0500 Subject: Re:Order of adding things Joan asked: > As I was reading the snippet above, I wondered why there would be any >particular sequence listed in adding ingredients to a bread machine? I >understand that perhaps things like raisins would go in later, toward the >end of the kneading cycle. Other than keeping the salt away from the yeast, >why would the initial sequence make any difference? Is there some >mechanical architecture to these bread machines that mandates it? Normally it would not matter much however, In bread machines it is sometimes NECESSARY to have either flour or water on the bottom (Depends on the type of seal used on the paddle shaft, They have a kneading paddle that is driven through the BOTTOM of the bread pan). Second, some folks use the "Delay" feature so they can wake up to fresh baked bread in the morning and when doing this it is important that selected ingreadents (IE YEAST) be kept as far as possible from other ingreadents (IE WATER) or they may not work properly when the time comes. Thus the "Sequence of adding things" - -- John F Davis In Delightful Detroit, Mi. aa122@detroit.freenet.org "Nothing adds excitement to your life like something that is clearly none of your business!" Battista ------------------------------ From: jvandenb@mail.wincom.net Date: Sat, 23 Dec 1995 09:35:23 -0500 Subject: Re: Yeast-free breads Jeanne... Here's a recipe for whole wheat bread reciped from Jean Pare's Company's Coming Muffins & More Cookbook that may interest you. I don't think you can do it in a breadmaker though. Enjoy. Janine Whole Wheat Bread 2 c whole wheat flour 1 c all purpose flour 1/4 c granulated sugar 2 tsp baking powder 1 tsp baking soda 1 tsp salt 1 1/2 c buttermilk or sour milk 1/4 c molasses 1/4 c cooking oil In large bowl combine all six dry ingredients. Stir to combine thoroughly. Make a well in the center. In a small bowl put buttermilk, molasses and oil. Stir until molasses has thinned and mixed in. Pour into well. Stir just enough to combine. Turn into greased loaf pan 9 x 5 x 3 inch. Bake in 350 F (180 C) oven for 40 - 50 minutes. Remove from pan to cool. Serve with butter Graham Bread: use graham flour instead of whole wheat. > From: bj3@ix.netcom.com (BJ) > Date: Fri, 22 Dec 1995 22:29:22 -0800 > Subject: Yeast-free breads > Hi all, > In the recent past (or as far back as you can conveniently go), has anyone > submitted yeast-free bread recipes that you could forward to me??? Having a > great deal of trouble finding these - and if you go to any health food > store, there are lots of different breads made w/out yeast. - ---------8<------- ------------------------------ From: als@ultranet.com (Allan Sherman) Date: Sun, 24 Dec 1995 00:28:20 -0500 (EST) Subject: store bought mixes rising > >Gina Rodriguez asked in V 6 No 53: >I was told that store bought mixes have never risen well. I am going to try >all of the above and see if I start getting larger loaves! Does anyone know >if it is true about the store bought mixes? > >Gina We bought the "Classic Hearth International Bread Mix Collection" at Costco. All four 1-1/2 lb loaves rose perfectly in our Hitachi. The loaves are: Mediterranean: Olive and Garlic Provincal: Sun-Dried Tomato & Basil Southwestern: Jalapeno Cheese Hawaiian: Island Sweet Bread We enjoyed all four. The mix is made by Continental Mills in Seattle. More than a year ago we bought the "Krusteaz Gold Label Specialty Bread & Roll Mix Variety Pack" by the same manufacturer. The breads in this kit are more "conventional": Sour Dough, Honey Wheat Berry, Garden Herb, Harvest Wheat, Home Style, and Cracked Wheat. These mixes made much smaller loaves, as if intended for a 1-lb machine (the size was not specified). Many did not rise very well. We bought a second carton of the Krusteaz breads about a year ago, but three of the bags are still unused. I guess we are not very enthusiastic about that one, but we definately plan on a repeat purchase of International Collection the next time we see it at Costco.... -Al Sherman ------------------------------ From: bbriscoe@infolink.morris.mn.us (Bonnie Briscoe) Date: Fri, 29 Dec 1995 00:14:47 -0600 Subject: Re: VITAL WHEAT GLUTEN Larry Ziegler asked, If you use Vital Wheat Glouten(sp?) in regular unbleached flour, do you need to use "Bread" Flour? In my experience, no. Adding a small amount of vital wheat gluten (called gluten flour by our food co-op supplier, but labeled "Wheat Gluten" on the carton) adds enough gluten to the unbleached flour that you do not also need to use bread flour. In fact, when I ran out of bread flour one time, I used just the plain unbleached flour (it's labeled "for bread" in the co-op supplier's catalog) in a recipe that uses no dark flour, and got the same result as I had obtained with bread flour in that recipe. When I use rye or whole wheat flours, or rolled oats or cornmeal, in my bread machine, I always add 1 1/2 to 2 tablespoons of gluten flour to help the bread rise. This is for a 1 1/2 pound loaf. If you use too much gluten flour, however, the bread can be tough and rubbery. Bonnie Briscoe ============================================================================ Bonnie Briscoe e-mail:bbriscoe@infolink.morris.mn.us Briscoe & Associates 500 East Third St. voice phone: (612)589-1258 Morris MN 56267 fax/modem: (612)589-1754 Language is all that separates us from the lower animals-- and from the bureaucrats. ============================================================================ ------------------------------ From: LoisCon@aol.com Date: Thu, 28 Dec 1995 00:03:12 -0500 Subject: bread questions Larry asked if he need to use "bread flour" if you add the vital wheat gluten to the all-purpose flour Larry, you can use the all-purpose flour. LoisCon@AOL.com Reid Furniss asked if there was a formula to convert real recipes to bread machine. Reid, we have a formula in our book, The Bread Machine Magic Book of Helpful Hints, page 120-121 of the new edition. It's just too long to copy here. LoisCon@AOL.com Jeanne asked for recipes for yeast-free breads. Try the book Easy Bread Making for Special Diets, Nicolette Dumke. published by Allergy Adapt, (303) 666-8253 OK for all of you who have asked here is that INCOMPLETE Schlotsky's Rolls recipe. If you can finish it, please let me know... SCHLOTSKY'S ROLLS INCOMPLETE... 1 cup milk, scalded 1/4 cup honey 1/4 cup margarine 1 teaspoon salt 1 package dry yeast 1/4 cup warm water 4 cups flour 1 large egg 1/2 teaspoon baking soda added to the warm milk.............and that's all I have. If anyone can finish please let me know. LoisCon@AOL.com Also Bread Machine Baking for Better Health (delicious bread Recipes for Brimming Good Health) by Maureen B. Keane and Daniella Chase Prima Publishing P.O. Box 1260BK Rocklin, CA 95677 (916) 786-0426 "The Gluten-Free Gourmet" by Betty Hagman. It is published by Henry Holt. The ISBN for your bookstore is 0-8050-1835-2. She has written a second book, "More from the Gluten-Free Gourmet" Hope these titles help you. LoisCon @AOL.com Bill F. is having trouble with burnt breads.Try taking them out 10 minutes earlier..they are probably done anyway if they are "dry". If you can cut some of the sugar, or honey that may help too. Sweeter breads tend to come out darker. LoisCon @AOL.com To Cindy with the Hitachi problems..have you tried warming your ingredients more?? LoisCon@AOL.com ------------------------------ From: schapin@smiley.mitre.org (Susan L Chapin) Date: Sun, 24 Dec 95 21:43:56 EST Subject: Wheat-free recipies Someone asked about wheat-free recipes. There is a distinction to be made between "wheat free" and "gluten free." I am allergic to wheat, but not to gluten, and I make many wonderful breads by using 1/2 cup vital wheat gluten and 2 1/2 cups other flours. Flours I use include: brown rice flour, barley flour, teff flour, oat flour, oat flakes, soy flour, amaranth flour, quinoa flour, and many more, including kamut flour. Kamut is a wheat, and I can tolerate it, and I use that as the basis for many of my breads. Spelt is a wheat, also, but I can't tolerate it at all. Breads made without wheat flour tend to, not be softer exactly, but to have a less chewy, resilient texture. But they still make great sandwiches, and the flavor can be as good as any wheat bread. If you are allergic to gluten, you can do something similar, but you need to use Xanthan gum instead of gluten, and I don't know much about that. Lois Conway writes in one of her books that she has tried it -- Lois, do you have any comments? Many of my recipes I created by starting with a wheat bread recipe and substituting. Others I just dreamed up. The basic recipe is: 2 3/8 tsp yeast 1/2 vital wheat gluten 2 1/2 cups other flours 1 cup + 2 TB liquid 1 1/2 TB honey or molassas 1 - 1 1/2 tsp salt Here's one recipe I like a lot. It is for a Breadman 1 1/2 lb loaf, using the medium cycle (2 1/2 hours total): Yeast: 2 3/8 tsp Dry group: Gluten: 1/2 cup Kamut flour: 1 1/2 cup Soy flour: 1/4 cup Oatmeal flakes: 3/4 cup Corn germ: 2 TB Wet group Water: 1 cup + 2 TB Canola oil: 1 1/2 TB Honey: 1 1/2 TB Salt: 1 1/4 tsp Corn germ: 2 tb Send me email to schapin@mitre.org if you want more details. - susan (schapin@mitre.org; the opinions above are my own and are not known to or endorsed by my employer) ------------------------------ From: bbriscoe@infolink.morris.mn.us (Bonnie Briscoe) Date: Fri, 29 Dec 1995 00:15:04 -0600 Subject: Re: Honey and maple syrup in bread machine Ephraim Vishniac asked about using honey or maple syrup in the bread machine. I have found that if you successfully adapt a recipe to use a liquid sweetener such as honey, you can then use molasses or maple syrup without much difference except the flavor each gives to the bread. (The same appears to be true of using oil as the shortening ingredient--olive oil is great in herb bread, but you probably would want to use a vegetable oil in oatmeal bread.) Here's one of my recipes that can be made in a variety of ways: Your Choice Bread This bread offers lots of choices for sweeteners, grains, and additions--thus the name. 8 fluid ounces water 3 tablespoons light unsulphured molasses, honey, or real maple syrup--your choice 1 1/4 teaspoons salt 2 cups bread flour 1/2 cup oatmeal or yellow cornmeal--your choice 1/2 cup whole wheat or rye graham flour--your choice 2 tablespoons gluten flour 2 tablespoons wheat germ 1 1/2 tablespoons nonfat dry milk or powdered buttermilk--your choice 1 1/2 tablespoons butter 2 1/8 teaspoons active dry yeast 1/3 cup sesame seeds, unsalted roasted sunflower seeds, or chopped unsalted roasted peanuts--your choice 1. Place all ingredients in pan of bread machine in order listed, or in the order recommended for your machine. 2. Set controls for Basic bread with medium crust and start machine. Makes one 1 1/2-pound loaf. -- Bonnie Briscoe Enjoy! ============================================================================ Bonnie Briscoe e-mail:bbriscoe@infolink.morris.mn.us Briscoe & Associates 500 East Third St. voice phone: (612)589-1258 Morris MN 56267 fax/modem: (612)589-1754 Language is all that separates us from the lower animals-- and from the bureaucrats. ============================================================================ ------------------------------ From: bbriscoe@infolink.morris.mn.us (Bonnie Briscoe) Date: Fri, 29 Dec 1995 00:15:00 -0600 Subject: Re: Yeast-free breads This yeast-free bread is also gluten-free. It was developed by a member of our food co-op, who provides it to anyone who is interested in gluten-free cooking. Yeast-Free Gluten-Free White Bread This white bread is very tasty and not as crumbly as some gluten-free breads are. 2 1/4 cups whole-grain rice flour 1/4 cup soy flour (or quinoa flour) 1/2 cup cornstarch 2 tablespoons potato starch flour 1 (1/4 ounce) envelope unflavored gelatin 1 teaspoon salt 1/3 cup sugar 3 teaspoons baking powder 1 teaspoon soda 4 eggs 1 1/2 cups buttermilk 3/4 cup small-curd cottage cheese 3 tablespoons oil 1. Preheat oven to 350=B0. Grease three small loaf pans (7 1/2 x 3 1/2 x 2 1/4 inches). 2. Sift all dry ingredients together 4 or 5 times. Place in large bowl. 3. In medium bowl, beat the eggs on high speed for 2 minutes until frothy. 4. Add buttermilk, cottage cheese, and oil to eggs and mix well. 5. Pour the wet ingredients into the dry mix and beat on high speed for 3 to 5 minutes. 6. Divide batter among the three prepared loaf pans. 7. Place all the pans on one cookie sheet (for ease of handling) and bake about 45 minutes. - Ruth Domingo submitted by Bonnie Briscoe Bonnie Briscoe e-mail:bbriscoe@infolink.morris.mn.us Briscoe & Associates 500 East Third St. voice phone: (612)589-1258 Morris MN 56267 fax/modem: (612)589-1754 Language is all that separates us from the lower animals-- ------------------------------ From: arielle@taronga.com (Stephanie da Silva) Date: Tue, 26 Dec 1995 17:35:24 -0600 (CST) Subject: Stollen >About this time last year my next door neighbor knocked at the back door >holding something wrapped in decorative towels. I opened the door and >she smiled and said "this is stolen". She then tried to hand it to me. >In that I did not know what "Stolen" was at that time (is that >spelling right, Stolen?), she had to tell me what it was and show me >the contents before I would touch it. It's pronounced "shtah-lin", accent on the first syllable. Stollen is the plural form, Stolle is the singular. Here's a recipe: STOLLEN 1 Cup raisins (opt.) 5 Cups sifted flour 1 Cup mixed candied fruit 2 Eggs 1/4 Cup orange juice 1 teaspoon lemon peel 1/2 Cup milk 1/4 teaspoon mace 1/2 Cup sugar 1 Cup chopped almonds 1 Cup butter 2 Tablespoon sugar 1 Package dry yeast 1/2 teaspoon cinnamon 1/2 Cup warm water Creamy frosting Combine raisins, if used, candied fruits, lemon peel and mace with orange juice. Allow mixture to stand, covered, about one hour or overnight refrigerated. Sprinkle yeast on warm water; stir to dissolve. Meanwhile, scald milk; add 1/2 cup sugar and 1/2 cup butter. Cool to lukewarm. Add 2 cups flour, eggs and yeast to milk mixture. Beat with electric mixture on medium speed for two minutes. Stir in fruit mixture and enough remaining flour, a little at a time, to make a dough that leaves the sides of the bowl and that can be handled easily. Turn onto lightly floured surface; knead until smooth and satiny, about 5 minutes. Place in lightly greased bowl; turn dough over to grease top. Cover and let rise in warm place until doubled, about two hours. Punch down dough; turn onto surface, knead a few times and divide in half. Cover and let rest five minutes. Roll each half into a 15 x 9" oval. Melt remaining 1/2 cup butter; brush part of it over each oval, saving what is not used for frosting. Sprinkle with two tablespoons sugar mixed with cinnamon. Fold each oval lengthwise in half to make a big Parkerhouse roll. Carefully lift folded-over rolls to a greased baking sheet and curve the ends slightly. Cover and let rise until doubled, 1 to 1 1/2 hours. Bake in moderate oven 350 degrees F. about 35 minutes, or until loaves are golden. While hot, brush with Creamy Frosting and decorate with colored sprinkles. Makes two large loaves. Creamy Frosting: To 1 cup sifted confectioners sugar add 1 tablespoon cream or milk and 1/4 cup melted butter. Stir until smooth. ------------------------------ From: gregfam@aa.net (Lee & Gretchen Gregory) Date: Wed, 27 Dec 1995 15:25:50 -0800 Subject: Potato Bread Here's a great bread recipe I made the other day. Came out of a book someone on the list recommended to me--can't remember the title off hand. Gretchen POTATO BREAD 1 med.-lg. potato, about 1/2 lb. 2 T. honey 2 tsp. active dry yeast 1 T. oil, optional 1/4 c. warm water 6 c. whole wheat bread flour 1 c. fresh nonfat yogurt or buttermilk 2&1/2 tsp. sea salt 1 c. hot potato water Peel potato and trim off eyes and all dark spots. Rinse, quarter, and boil until tender. Drain, reserving water. Dissolve yeast in warm water. Mash potato and blend with liquids. The blender works well. Combine flour and salt, mixing them thoroughly. Combine liquids with drys. The dough will probably be a little bit stiff; depending on how much water your potato contained, it might be quite stiff. Add water on your hands as you knead about 20 minutes, until dough is very supple, soft, and bouncy. Form dough in ball and place, smooth side up, in a greased bowl. Cover and keep warm for about 1&1/2 hours. Poke center about 1/2" deep with wet finger--if hole doesn't fill in at all or if the dough sighs, it is ready for the next step. Press dough flat, form into a smooth round, and let rise again, about 45 minutes. Divide dough into 2 loaves, though if you've added extra potato flour or if your flour is very good or if you are a super kneader, there may be more dough than you require for two normal loaf pans. Each loaf should weigh about 1&3/4 pounds. Make hearth loaves --or just form a couple buns along with the two loaves. Let loaves rise in warm, humid place. Dust lightly with fine flour, if desired. If making hearth loaves, slash tops. Bake at 350 degrees nearly 1 hour. Note: You can sub leftover mashed potatoes in recipe, using 1-1&1/2 cups. You may desire to reduce salt in recipe if mashed potatoes contain butter and salt. Also, for richer flavor and better rise, add egg as part of the liquid measure. For a close-textured crumb, particularly pale and milk-sweet, stir in 6 tablespoons powdered milk into dry ingredients. This bread is light, airy, and delicious. Sesame Potato Bread: Use sesame oil for the oil measure in the bread. Roll dough in sesame seeds after shaping loaf. This is particularly delicious bread. Lee & Gretchen Gregory ************************************************ * ASLAN WEB DESIGN * * Website Design and Storage Svc. * * http://www.aa.net/~gregfam/aslan.htm * * NATURAL NUTRITION * * http://www.aa.net/~gregfam/nutritio.htm * ************************************************ ------------------------------ From: bbriscoe@infolink.morris.mn.us (Bonnie Briscoe) Date: Fri, 29 Dec 1995 00:14:52 -0600 Subject: Re: Converting "real" recipes to bread machine Once you are familiar with how your bread machine handles different combinations of flours and liquids, start to experiment with "old favorite" bread recipes that have ingredient amounts that are easy to divide in half. For example, if your machine takes 3 cups of flour, look for standard bread recipes that call for about 6 cups of flour. If the original recipe calls for one egg, remember that a large egg equals 1/4 cup liquid, and adjust the other liquid ingredients to account for this amount. Plan to be on hand when your newly converted recipe is mixing in the bread machine, so you can add a tablespoon of flour if the dough is too soft, or a teaspoon of water if it is too firm. You may need to experiment a bit to get the amounts right. Use the recipes you've tried from your bread machine manual as a guide in deciding whether the proportions of liquid and dry ingredients seem to be appropriate. Here are two of my favorite "converted" breads: Caraway Cheese Bread (in the machine) 1/2 can Cheddar Cheese soup, undiluted 1 large egg 1/2 cup plus 2 tablespoons water 1 1/4 teaspoons salt 3 cups bread flour 1 tablespoon sugar 1 1/2 teaspoons caraway seed 1/4 cup grated Parmesan cheese 1 tablespoon butter 2 teaspoons (level) active dry yeast 1. Divide can of soup evenly (I use two margarine tubs and weigh them). Seal and freeze second portion for next batch of bread. 2. Place all ingredients in pan of bread machine in order listed, or in the order recommended for your machine. 3. Set controls for Basic bread with medium crust and start machine. Makes one 1 1/2-pound loaf. Caraway Cheese Bread (original ingredients for 2 loaves) 1 can Cheddar Cheese soup, undiluted 2 large eggs 1 1/2 cups warm water 3 teaspoons salt 6 1/2 to 7 cups bread flour 2 tablespoons sugar 1 tablespoon caraway seed 1/2 cup grated Parmesan cheese 2 tablespoons butter 2 packages active dry yeast Most of the ingredients were divided in half, but I used slightly less than half the amount of water so that I would not exceed the maximum of 3 cups of flour for my bread machine. (This also has the effect of intensifying the cheese flavor.) I also used slightly less than half the amount of yeast, because this bread rises very high and will overflow the pan if I don't use LEVEL teaspoons of yeast. The amount of salt was reduced slightly below half due to personal taste. Shredded Wheat Bread (in the machine) 2 shredded wheat biscuits 11 fluid ounces (1 cup plus 3 tablespoons) boiling water 3 tablespoons honey 2 cups bread flour or unbleached flour 3/4 cup whole wheat bread flour 1 1/4 teaspoons salt 1 1/2 tablespoons gluten flour 2 tablespoons wheat germ 2 tablespoons butter 2 teaspoons active dry yeast 1. Crumble shredded wheat biscuits into bread machine pan. Add honey and boiling water, stir and let stand 20 to 30 minutes, until lukewarm. 2. Add remaining ingredients in order recommended by bread machine manufacturer. Set controls for regular or basic bread. Makes one 1 1/2-pound loaf. Shredded Wheat Bread (original ingredients for 2 loaves) 4 shredded wheat biscuits 2 1/4 cups boiling water 1/3 cup honey 5 to 6 cups flour 1 tablespoon salt 2 tablespoons sugar 3 tablespoons butter 2 packages active dry yeast This one has a few more changes in ingredients, but it was a good one to try because the original made 3 pounds of bread. I wanted to add more fiber, so I substituted whole wheat flour and wheat germ for some of the white flour. By using only 3/4 cup of WW flour, I left room in the machine for the shredded wheat, gluten flour, and wheat germ. I used slightly more than half the original amount of honey, but omitted the sugar. The amount of butter is slightly more than half the original amount because I like the flavor and texture it gives, but you could reduce it to 1 1/2 tablespoons if you like. The first time I made this in the machine, I had to increase the amount of water slightly, so the machine recipe has a bit more than half as much water as the original. These have become two of our favorite breads in the machine. I make them more often now than in the past, because both were rather sticky and difficult to handle when made by hand. Converting your "old favorites" is definitely worth the effort! Enjoy! Bonnie Briscoe ============================================================================ Bonnie Briscoe e-mail:bbriscoe@infolink.morris.mn.us Briscoe & Associates 500 East Third St. voice phone: (612)589-1258 Morris MN 56267 fax/modem: (612)589-1754 Language is all that separates us from the lower animals-- and from the bureaucrats. ============================================================================ ------------------------------ End of bread-bakers-digest V6 #55 ********************************* bread-bakers-digest Saturday, 6 January 1996 Volume 06 : Number 056 Today's Subjects: Re: bread-bakers-digest V6 #54 Damark versus Kenmore Label underneath? Refrigerating dough falling loaves Falling Bread Re: bread-bakers-digest V6 #54 What To Buy .sig lines honey bread The proof is in the... er... bread Argh!!!!/MCv3/Help!!! English muffins Thanks to all & French Bread Recipe Italian Cracked Wheat And Pepper Bread + Yeast Free Bread ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Blanche007@aol.com Date: Tue, 2 Jan 1996 00:29:55 -0500 Subject: Re: bread-bakers-digest V6 #54 Blue Wave Max - thanks so much for your in-depth answer about the microwave question. I'm writing a book that includes microwave cooking - may I quote your wopnderfully worded information? ------------------------------ From: "Julie Johnson" Date: 31 Dec 95 09:26:10 EST Subject: Damark versus Kenmore Label underneath? We purchased an $80 breadmaker from Damark. We removed the sticker that was covered the branded label and saw the words Kenmore. I assume a Sears product?? Any ideas or info on this??? ------------------------------ From: Gene Haldas Date: Sun, 31 Dec 1995 11:47:18 -0800 Subject: Refrigerating dough I have a recipe for a stollen that requires the dough be refrigerated overnight. I have baked the stollen both after the prolonged cooling and no cooling at all. I could not tell the difference. Could someone explain what cooling the dough does? ------------------------------ From: LoisCon@aol.com Date: Tue, 2 Jan 1996 13:33:51 -0500 Subject: falling loaves Kim asked why her bread "falls"...Kim, try reducing the yeast. It sounds as if your bread is overproofing. It rises too high and then deflates. Another cause may be too much liquid. Try reducing the yeast first and then try reducing the liquid. If you need me write me at: LoisCon@AOL.com ------------------------------ From: Joel.Ehrlich@salata.com (Joel Ehrlich) Date: 31 Dec 95 07:29:20 -0800 Subject: Falling Bread ow> From: UmTarek@aol.com ow> Hello, fellow bread bakers-- ow> I'm having a problem with bread in my machine. It rises beautifully, ow> but when it begins to bake, it "falls", leaving the top wrinkled. The ow> taste and texture of the bread are very good, but the appearance lacks ow> something. Any suggestions? Too much liquid. Cut back on the amount of liquid you add to the dry ingredients. Remember, the amount of liquid needed varies because no two batches of flour have the same moisture content. Joel ------------------------------ From: Blanche007@aol.com Date: Tue, 2 Jan 1996 00:23:05 -0500 Subject: Re: bread-bakers-digest V6 #54 re vital wheat gluten: Larry, too much gluten in your dough will cause your bread to be dry and tough. Don't use both extra gluten and high gluten flour. I love King Arthur Flour - can you get it where you live? If not, look for a flour that has between 12 and 14 grams of protein per cup (check the panal on the package - the measurments are usually per 1/4 cup). Don't forget that whole wheat and other "dark" flours have less gluten than white. Rye flour is extremely low in gluten. Have you tried either the King Arthur "Special" or my product, Lotra Brody's Bread Dough Enhancer? ------------------------------ From: Bonnie Pollack Date: Sun, 31 Dec 1995 15:57:39 -0500 (EST) Subject: What To Buy I joined the list because I thought I had bought a breadmaker. I returned it and am still looking for one. If I ask for suggestions I will get more than the list cares to read. I do not want a Hitachi, the one I tried out went up in smoke. Are new ones coming out with a more store bread look? worth the wait? I want a dependable and easy model that allows me to stop for dough and also stop to add nuts and fruit. Oh what to buy? I thought I wanted the Breadman +. On the 28th of Jan QVC Network will have a horizontal welbuilt as a special value? I am perplexed and want to make bread the 90's way....Bonnie E-mail me privately so the list does not have to suffer. ------------------------------ From: Reggie Dwork Date: Sat, 06 Jan 1996 11:58:00 -0800 Subject: .sig lines Hi everyone, We would find it extremely helpful if folks who have long .sig files or beautiful pictures reduce them to no more then 5 lines. Although we find the pictures really pretty to look at and the texts interesting/funny some of them are getting a bit large/long. We am working on archiving all 5+ years of the digests and having difficulty with the sig lines. Also, we know that many of you keep the digests as they come out and storage might be a problem for some of these people. So if you could do this for us, we sure would appreciate it. Thanks, Reggie & Jeff - -- Reggie & Jeff Dwork Owners, eat-lf mailing list and bread-bakers mailing list eat-lf-admin@reggie.com bread-bakers-admin@reggie.com ------------------------------ From: jguevara@spin.com.mx (Jenka Guevara) Date: Fri, 5 Jan 1996 17:30:19 -0600 Subject: honey bread Marta Martin from the LowFat group sent me this recipe, which I wanted to share with all of you, it came out delicious, and I omitted the butter, with no adverse results! Jenka HONEY OATMEAL BREAD (for ABM) one cup of water 1 tbs butter 1/4 cup honey 1 tsp salt 1/2 cup oats 2 cups flour 1 tsp yeast Add ingredients in order listed above into pan of bread machine. Use regular or basic cycle (light). Enjoy! Fat content can be lowered by using applesauce instead of butter. Makes a one pound loaf. *********************************** * Jenka Guevara * * American School Foundation * * Mexico City * * jguevara@spin.unam.mx * *********************************** ------------------------------ From: arielle@taronga.com (Stephanie da Silva) Date: Mon, 01 Jan 1996 04:24:03 -0600 (CST) Subject: The proof is in the... er... bread > When making bread by hand, you proof the yeast before adding it to the > liquid ingredients. You also mix the dry ingredients into the liquid > ingredients. Once in a fit of madness, I didn't proof the yeast but instead tossed it dry into the flour, then kneaded it as usual. That batch of dough took *forever* to rise! While trying to decide what was wrong with the dough, I looked at it and could see the little granules of undissolved yeast underneath the surface. After that, I kept pulling it out and kneading it but still, it took like 18 hours for the first rise. Eventually the yeast dissolved into the dough and the bread baked out as usual (a couple days later). Was a weird experiment in baking bread. > Graham Bread: use graham flour instead of whole wheat. Really, I thought graham flour *was* whole wheat flour. ------------------------------ From: gourmet@mail.utexas.edu Date: Tue, 02 Jan 1996 06:06:04 -0500 Subject: Argh!!!!/MCv3/Help!!! Sorry to be doing this mass posting, but I have a big favor. Due to an undocumented feature in the new version of MCv3 combined with my lack of adequate backup (for those who are using the new version, if you uninstall and reinstall MCv3, be sure to keep separate backups, in a separate subdirectory *not* under the primary MCv3 one. One on floppy is even better), I have lost *all* of my recipes. I'm sure I can put together, from archives, etc., the virtual cookbook I had created. However, my personal recipes are gone, particularly since I threw away a lot of the hard copies once I entered them into MCII. Therefore, I am hoping one or several kind souls (who also keeps track of recipe posters) will have copies of at least some of the recipes I've posted over time. If so, I would very much appreciate getting copies. I'm sure I can put together, from archives, etc., the virtual cookbook I had created. However, my personal recipes are gone, particularly since I threw away a lot of the hard copies once I entered them into MCII. Thanks very much for any help I get with recreating my cookbook. Cindy ------------------------------ From: TLMVC@aol.com Date: Wed, 3 Jan 1996 13:15:35 -0500 Subject: English muffins In December Dennis asked for an English Muffin recipe. This is a recipe that has been handed down in our family. { Exported from MasterCook Mac } Charls English Muffins Recipe By: Serving Size: 1 Preparation Time: 0:00 Categories: Bread Amount Measure Ingredient Preparation Method 1/2 cup milk scalded 1/4 cup shortening 1 1/2 teaspoons salt 1 tablespoon sugar 1/2 cup water room temperature 1 package yeast 3 cups flour sifted 4 tablespoons white cornmeal Combine milk, shortening, salt and sugar. Cool to lukewarm by adding water. Dissolve yeast as directed on package. Add to milk mixture and stir well. Add flour and mix until a soft dough is formed. Roll out on floured board to 1/4 inch thickness. Cut with a 3 1/2 inch round cutter. Place on a baking sheet that has been sprinkled with 2 tablespoons cornmeal. Sprinkle tops of muffins with additional 2 tablespoons cornmeal. Let rise in a warm place(85-90 degrees) until double in bulk-about 1 hour. Bake sowly on a hot, ungreased griddle until brown, about 7 minutes on each side. Split muffins, toast and serve with butter and marmalade. ----- I hope this helps. Terri ------------------------------ From: DebReeves@aol.com Date: Mon, 1 Jan 1996 21:30:15 -0500 Subject: Thanks to all & French Bread Recipe Thanks to all for the tip about using gluten in the bread machine. I tried it today and my favorite bread recipe came out lighter and better than ever. I have had a Zoji machine for about two years now and I love it. Here is the recipe I make most often because it is low fat and delicious too. Hope you all enjoy it. DebReeves@aol.com * Exported from MasterCook II * French Honey Bread Recipe By : The Bread Machine Cookbook Serving Size : 10 Preparation Time :0:00 Categories : Breads Amount Measure Ingredient -- Preparation Method - -------- ------------ -------------------------------- 1 1/8 c water 1 tbsp honey 1 tbsp olive oil 1 tsp salt 1 tsp sugar 3 c bread flour 3 tbsp gluten 2 1/2 tsp yeast Put all ingredients into bread machine according to your directions. Wonderful, slightly sweet French bread with a light, crispy crust. - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - NOTES : This recipe makes a 2 lb (large) loaf. ------------------------------ From: Reggie Dwork Date: Thu, 04 Jan 1996 21:42:17 -0800 Subject: Italian Cracked Wheat And Pepper Bread + The first is the original recipe...the second is my version. I must say ... mine is really tasty also!! Reggie * Exported from MasterCook II * Italian Cracked Wheat And Pepper Bread Recipe By : The Best Bread Machine Cookbook Ever, Madge Rosenberg Serving Size : 16 Preparation Time :0:00 Categories : Bread Machine Low Fat Amount Measure Ingredient -- Preparation Method - -------- ------------ -------------------------------- 1 1/2 Lb Loaf: -- (1 lb loaf:) 2 1/4 Tsp Active Dry Yeast -- (1 1/2 t) 2 1/2 C Bread Flour -- (1 2/3 C) 3/4 C Cracked Wheat -- (1/2 C) 1 1/2 Tbsp Sugar -- (1 T) 3 Tbsp Wheat Germ -- T) 3/4 Tsp Black Pepper -- coarsely cracked, -- (1/2 t) 1 1/2 tsp Salt -- (1 t) 1 1/2 tbsp Olive Oil -- (1 T) 1 1/2 C Water -- (3/4 C + 2 T) Minestrone and vegetable soup taste even better with this spicy, crunchy bread,and it can make a fried egg sandwich a whole new experience. Toast slices and use as a base for eggs Benedict or rub with olive oil, cut into fingers, toast, and you will have a rustic, portable hors d'oeuvre. Add all ingredients in the order suggested by your bread machine manual and process on the basic bread cycle according to the manufacturer's directions. Let the loaf cool before slicing. Entered into MasterCook II by Reggie Dwork reggie@reggie.com - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - * Exported from MasterCook II * Reggie's Version Of Italian Cracked Wheat Bread Recipe By : modified from The Best Bread Machine Cookbook Ever Serving Size : 16 Preparation Time :0:00 Categories : Bread Machine Italian Low Fat Amount Measure Ingredient -- Preparation Method - -------- ------------ -------------------------------- 1 1/2 Lb Loaf: -- (1 lb loaf:) 2 1/4 Tsp Active Dry Yeast -- (1 1/2 t) 2 1/2 C Bread Flour -- (1 2/3 C) 3/4 C Cracked Wheat -- (1/2 C) 1 1/2 Tbsp Sugar -- (1 T) 1 1/2 Tsp Salt -- (1 t) 1 Tbsp Olive Oil -- (2 t) 1 1/4 C Water -- (3/4 C + 2 T) Since I can't eat anything with pepper in it this is my version of this bread. I must say that it was EXCELLENT - even though I didn't have any wheat germ to add (original recipe calls for wheat germ 3 T (2 T). The next time I made this (the next day) I tossed in some toasted sesame seeds and it was really good. Entered into MasterCook II and tested for you by Reggie Dwork reggie@reggie.com - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - ------------------------------ From: Joel.Ehrlich@salata.com (Joel Ehrlich) Date: 31 Dec 95 07:39:45 -0800 Subject: Yeast Free Bread ow> From: Dave Hastings ow> | From: bj3@ix.netcom.com (BJ) ow> | Subject: Yeast-free breads ow> | ow> ow> | In the recent past (or as far back as you can conveniently go), has ow> anyone | submitted yeast-free bread recipes that you could forward to ow> me??? ow> I don't know if this is the sort of thing you're looking for, but the ow> _Joy of Cooking_ has a couple of recipies for salt-rising bread. One ow> based on potato pulp, and one on stone ground corn meal. Let me know ow> if you can't get access to a copy of the book. I've never made ow> either. ow> I'm new here, so a short introduction is probably in order. I'm Dave ow> Hastings. I live in the Seattle area (Carntion actually) I bake bread ow> by hand (large bowl, large wooden spoon). ow> - -daveh Those breads are _not_ yeast free. They use native or "wild" yeast instead of commercial yeast. That is the reason the initial sponge is allowed to sit out in the open for a period of time. It is where the native yeast (which is _everywhere_) comes into contact with the mix. What that means is, just as with a true sourdough bread, these breads rise due to the action of yeast. They are most decidedly not yeast free. Joel ------------------------------ End of bread-bakers-digest V6 #56 ********************************* bread-bakers-digest Sunday, 14 January 1996 Volume 06 : Number 057 Today's Subjects: Cracked Wheat??? Need Receipe sweet bread Re: programmable bread machines not-so-sour sourdough two questions, please FAQ Hitachi vs Zoji Basic Questions Disaster My experience with Chefmate ABM Greetings and Questions/ABM [none] Assorted subjects ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: randell@tricon.net Date: Mon, 8 Jan 96 12:56:55 PST Subject: Cracked Wheat??? Could someone please give me a phone number for a catalog where I can order cracked wheat? I have tried all the local groceries & health stores in our area - nothing. Thanks Sherry-TN ------------------------------ From: Penchard@aol.com Date: Sat, 6 Jan 1996 16:48:02 -0500 Subject: Need Receipe I am new to this digest (two issues) and enjoy it very much. I am looking for (2) recipes for whole wheat bread, one with olives and one with sun-dried tomatoes. Can anyone help? Thanks, Penchard ------------------------------ From: bzwax@tiac.net (Rich & Debbie) Date: Mon, 8 Jan 1996 08:42:07 -0500 Subject: sweet bread Howdy, folks: I'm new to this list and have really enjoyed the first edition I just received. I am also fairly new to bread baking. Though I cooked professionally for years, I was never a baker and now find myself FASCINATED by the art of it. My question is about baking tender, sweet bread. What level of gluten/type of flour should I be thinking of using for, say, a yeast-raised coffee cake? Thanks- Debbie Bier Concord, MA ------------------------------ From: Theresa Wild Date: Thu, 11 Jan 96 19:43:59 EST Subject: Re: programmable bread machines Does anyone have any info on programmable bread machines? My parents would like to get a bread machine, but need to make low or gluten free breads. My understanding is that the times needed for mixing/baking are different than the factory programmed machines. They are currently obtaining a book from King Arthur's Flour on baking gluten free. Any and all suggestions/recipes welcome. Thanks, Terry Wild twild@uriacc.uri.edu ------------------------------ From: "Michael Greenberg, MD" Date: Sat, 06 Jan 1996 17:52:19 -0800 Subject: not-so-sour sourdough Dear fellow sourdough enthusiasts, I have a problem. I have a great sourdough starter that I cultivated from wild San Francisco yeast. It proofs great, but no matter how long I leave it out to proof (and sour) I can't seem to get it to develop the typical sourdough flavor. I have even tried adding rye flour which I am told has a propensity to feed the lactobacilli that yield the sourness. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Michael Greenberg San Francisco, CA ------------------------------ From: jguevara@spin.com.mx (Jenka Guevara) Date: Sat, 6 Jan 1996 23:23:33 -0600 Subject: two questions, please The best for 1996 for all of you. Now my two questions, How to proof yeast my bread is not rising always, I want to test my yeast, but do not remember how to do it. The hole at the bottom of bread What can be done to make this smaller? or how do you cut the bread to minimize the effects of this hole? Thanks to all for your recommendations on the list, and in advance thanks to whoever helps with my questions Jenka *********************************** * Jenka Guevara * * American School Foundation * * Mexico City * * jguevara@spin.com.mx * *********************************** ------------------------------ From: Reggie Dwork Date: Sat, 13 Jan 1996 13:06:12 -0800 Subject: FAQ A couple of friends (list members) have begun to write up a FAQ for bbd. We need your input. We are going to make a document that is related to consumer bread machine recommendations. Please send me letters about your brand of bread machine...likes, dislikes, anything you want to share. Could you also send me questions that you think should be included in the FAQ?? We really appreciate your help with this. We want to make the FAQ and related documents as user-friendly and helpful as possible. Your input will definitely be needed in this. Thanks, Reggie - -- Reggie & Jeff Dwork Owners, eat-lf mailing list and bread-bakers mailing list eat-lf-admin@reggie.com bread-bakers-admin@reggie.com ------------------------------ From: dorothy talbott Date: Mon, 8 Jan 1996 18:38:10 -0500 (EST) Subject: Hitachi vs Zoji I think this is the way to do this...After reading all of the negative comments regarding Hitachi, and finally understanding that it *WAS* the machine and *not* me, we took our machine back to Best Products where we had purchased it TEN months ago...we were amazed when they (1) refused the "lovely" garlic and parmesean cheese doorstop that I had baked and (2) gave us substantical credit on our purchase of a Zojir...machine. It seemed to garner the greatest praise from the list. Many loaves later, after all the Christmas holidays provides lots of eaters and opportunites for bread making, I would like to sincerely thank all of you for showing me that I was not losing my mind or my bread making ability. For that, I and my husband are deeply grateful!! Kay Talbott ktalbott@nccu.edu South Brunswick Middle School Southport, NC 28461 ------------------------------ From: Bonnie Pollack Date: Fri, 12 Jan 1996 18:46:10 -0500 (EST) Subject: Basic Questions I finally bought a breadmaker. The " sale " did it after all that research. I love it (snowed in with my Toastmaster Breadbox) #1. Why can't I use all purpose flour. I have some to get rid of two large packages #2 What is gluten and where is it sold? And if I have to add it, in what quantity? #3 Can bread be salt or sugar free or does the yeast need them to rise? #4 What is "proof the yeast" #5 Why do measurements have to be so exact? I cook with "pinches" and get crazy when asked to do something EXACTLY. I have most of my trouble with the yeast packets. Some of the recipes ask for a 1/4th more or less. I dump the entire packet and it seems ok. Much thanks for the help you all gave me in my efforts to find a breadmaker. This is a most awesome list. Thanks in advance for help with these questions. Bonnie Bpollack@umd5.umd.edu ------------------------------ From: sheila@freenet.victoria.bc.ca (Sheila Bluett) Date: Sat, 6 Jan 1996 13:51:24 -0800 Subject: Disaster Hello people. I am very new to this list and also very new to bread machines.If you have heard all this before, please bear with me. My family got together and bought me a Black and Decker machine for xmas and I have been having great fun trying out different things. My first two loaves, one white bread and one whole wheat, were edible but nothing to brag about. So armed with an instant thermometer I made sure the liquid was at the right temperature and tried another loaf of white bread and a raisin loaf, both of which were just great. Then came an absolute disaster. I thought I would make a loaf of french bread to accompany the dinner meal. According to the book that came with the machine, the liquid required is just water, which is what gives it a nice crust. Well, a nice crust I got, but it didn't rise and the inside of the loaf you could patch a hole in the wall with. Even the local seagulls tried to bury it! Does anyone have a recipe that has been tried and was a success for french bread? Many thanks to the one's that make this list possible, and to all you people so willing to help people like me. Sheila ------------------------------ From: pasquale@lanl.gov (Gina Pasquale) Date: Tue, 9 Jan 1996 10:39:23 -0700 Subject: My experience with Chefmate ABM Hi everyone, I enjoy this bread baking list so much and have gotten many wonderful recipes! I've decided to share some of my experiences with my Chefmate (Seiko) bread machine. I live at high altitude (6400') and have always had a problem with bread not rising enough before baking, unless I use all white bread flour. I tried adding lots of gluten, but that didn't help. I also made sure the water content was correct. Then I noticed something: my bread machine has 3 rise cycles! During the first 2 cycles, the bread rose great. On the 3rd rise cycle, the bread didn't rise so well and the baked loaf was always too small in my opinion. So, last weekend I just used the dough cycle and took the bread out (only 1 rise in the dough cycle). I shaped the loaf and put it in a pan to rise. It only took about 20 min to rise way above the pan (high altitude and a warm oven to rise in account for this, I think). I baked the loaf for 40 mins in 350 deg oven and had the best loaf ever! So, if other people like me are having problems with a Chefmate brand, just try what I did and you'll be pleasantly surprised! And it almost feels like you're making bread from "scratch"! :-) Happy baking, Gina ------------------------------ From: "Butts, Diane" Date: Thu, 11 Jan 96 7:38:47 -0500 Subject: Greetings and Questions/ABM Hello everyone.... I'm new to the list and am enjoying it already. I received a Breadman Plus machine for Christmas and have gotten mixed results. I also received a Pizza Stone so the first dough I tried was pizza crust. It has turned out great, due in part I'm sure to the stone...... I also tried a Pineapple Coconut bread with cream cheese. I got the recipe from a bread machine cookbook, which called for baking it on the "regular" cycle but I used the dough cycle and re-shaped it for a loaf pan and baked it in the oven. It also turned out very nicely. Now for my problem that I'm hoping you all can help me with..... Whenever I make the dough for rolls, it seems to do fine until I bake them. Although they are soft inside, the outside is too hard and the next day, almost inedible. What am I doing wrong??? I usually put the dough in the oven to rise [warmed to 250 degrees, then turned off] with a towel over the bread in the muffin tins. Perhaps the oven rising is the problem. Please help. I'd appreciate a private reply in addition to the list. thanks. *************************** Diane Butts phone: 202-501-7117 fax: 202-501-6093 e-mail: dbutts@usia.gov **************************** ------------------------------ From: gourmet@mail.utexas.edu Date: Mon, 08 Jan 1996 13:15:06 -0500 Subject: [none] First of all, a belated thank you to everyone who was so helpful during my recipe "crisis." Fortunately, I was even luckier (chalk it up to dumb luck) than I thought. I don't remember when or why, but I obviously made an export file of all the recipes that I had in Mastercook not too long before the end of the year. While I was cleaning off the hard drive this week, I lucked onto them. As partial repayment for everyone's help, I'm enclosing two recipes from the order form that several of you asked me about a while ago. (In addition to cleaning the hard drive, we're doing some major house cleaning as well, and I finally came across this today.) For those of you who asked me for the address, here it is: Robert Linn P.O. Box 2586 Edmund, OK 73083-2586 (800) 800-8520/(405) 359-9596 We have bought several knives from him, for ourselves and gifts. We are very happy with them; in our opinion, they are the best we've seen. As always, standard disclaimer applies. YMMV. Thanks again, everyone. Cindy P.S. Sorry about the confusing directions for Karen's Egg Bread. It is taken pretty much word-for-word from the order form. * Exported from MasterCook * Karen's Egg Bread Recipe By : Appalachian Bow Bread Knife Order Form Serving Size : 40 Preparation Time :0:00 Categories : Breads, Yeast Amount Measure Ingredient -- Preparation Method - -------- ------------ -------------------------------- 2 pkg Yeast 1 tsp Sugar 1/2 cup Water -- warm 3 Tbsp Oil 3/4 cup Sugar 1 Tbsp Salt 3 Eggs 10 cups Flour -- or as little as 8 c 1 Egg White Sesame Seeds Add yeast mixture to above. Add 3 cups water. Add flour. Knead, let rise twice, ro.l out into four loaves. Brush with egg white. Sprinkle with sesame seeds. Let rise. Bake 30 minutes at 350 degrees or until golden. - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - * Exported from MasterCook * Mama's Monkey Bread Recipe By : Appalachian Bow Bread Knife Order Form Serving Size : 40 Preparation Time :0:00 Categories : Breads, Yeast Amount Measure Ingredient -- Preparation Method - -------- ------------ -------------------------------- 1 qt Milk 1/4 cup Sugar 4 tsp Salt 2 Tbsp Shortening 1 pkg Yeast 1/4 cup Water -- warm 12 cups Flour -- or less, as needed 3/4 lb Butter -- melted, more as need Scald milk; add sugar, salt, and shortening. Cool mixture to lukewarm; add yeast that has been softened in warm water. Sift flour; use as much as needed to make dough stiff enough to handle. Add flour gradually -- knead until smooth and satiny. Shape into 4 loaves, brush witha little melted butter, let rise. Cut loaves into thick slices, dip into melted butter, place in pan, and let rise again. Bake in hot oven (400-425 degrees F) until golden and crusty, about 40 minutes. - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - ------------------------------ From: Reggie Dwork Date: Fri, 12 Jan 1996 16:23:17 -0800 Subject: Assorted subjects Hi everyone, I have a few things I wanted to share with you. I recently had need to replace my ZO baking pan (the seal was giving out on the bottom so it started to leak). I called Irwin of Delta Rehab and he sold me a new baking pan for a really excellent price...lower then ZO offers it. I also decided to buy a Miracle Mill and spoke with him about that. So he sent them to me. When the box arrived I got really excited and got the 2 items out and decided to make a loaf of bread. I got all the ingredients into the baking pan and put it in the machine. After the warm up cycle, when the knead started...the pan popped out of the machine. I thought I had not seated it properly. So I stopped the machine. This happened a couple of times. By then I was pretty frustrated. I ended up dumping the ingredients. I called Irwin and he was soooo incredibly helpful. I explained the problem to him and he knew right away what was wrong. The wrong baking pan was sent to me. He was sooooo sorry and apologetic. He overnite shipped the correct pan to me and I returned the incorrect one to him. Well, the next day I decided to crack some wheatberries in the Miracle Mill. Let me tell you, it was quiet, quick and really worked better then I could have ever guessed. I am really happy that Irwin makes these products available to everyone and at such great prices and that he stands behind his products. I highly recommend him if you have need of his services and/or products. Next, we have more then 1800 subscribers on list now. This is up from 1200 when we took the list over on June 27, 1995!! I am really happy how this continues to grow and for all the wonderful help and knowledge that all of you so willingly share with each other. Now, I know many of you have written to me about getting back issues of bbd. I am very busy getting it cleaned up and archived. It will be ready pretty soon. I will post a notice when it is up and how you can access it. I pulled a recipe out of one of the back issues and wanted to re-share it with all of you...it is wonderful!! And it smelled heavenly while it was baking. * Exported from MasterCook II * Apple Cider Cinnamon Bread Recipe By : bread-bakers-digest archive Serving Size : 16 Preparation Time :0:00 Categories : Bread Machine Low Fat Amount Measure Ingredient -- Preparation Method - -------- ------------ -------------------------------- 1 1/2 Lb Loaf: 2 1/4 Tsp Active Dry Yeast 3 C Bread Flour 1 Tsp Cinnamon 2 Tbsp Brown Sugar 1 Tbsp Wonderslim -- *see NOTE 1 Tsp Salt 1 1/4 C Apple Cider -- or applejuice *NOTE: The original recipe used 2 T butter. Put in bread baking pan per manufacturer's directions and bake. I used light crust. This is FABULOUS!! Entered into MasterCook II and tested for you by Reggie Dwork - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - NOTES : Cal 108.7 Fat 0.5g Carbs 22.4g Dietary Fiber 0.9g Protein 3.3g Sodium 135mg CFF 4% Reggie ------------------------------ End of bread-bakers-digest V6 #57 ********************************* bread-bakers-digest Saturday, 20 January 1996 Volume 06 : Number 058 Today's Subjects: Cracked wheat - where? STORING BREAD & ADDING LIQUOR sourdough info Sun-Dried Tomato Herb Bread Re: bread-bakers-digest V6 #57 Three Olive Breads THANKS A LOT! Re: bread-bakers-digest V6 #57 Re: bread-bakers-digest V6 #57 Re: bread-bakers-digest V6 #57 Re: bread-bakers-digest V6 #57 Re: Bread bakers digest list... Cheese Danish MasterCook Re: bread-bakers-digest V6 #57 stuck bread pan Question re American Harvest Machine Re: Gluten all purpose flour bread Re: Apple Cider Cinnamon Bread recipe factory programmed machines Re: bread-bakers-digest V6 #57 re: cracked wheat source quiet Grain Mill? Recipe to proof yeast? SourDough Starter Question Hitachi stuck shaft/paddle on Zoji Re: SF sourdough Re: bread-bakers-digest V6 #57 Re: Bread machines and such Zoji; Powdered Milk Zoj price is coming down ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: ClayCooker@aol.com Date: Sun, 14 Jan 1996 11:20:45 -0500 Subject: Cracked wheat - where? In V6#57 - Sherry asked for a phone number for a catalog that sells Cracked wheat? King Arthur Flour Calalog has it listed as #3412. A 2# sack is $2.85 plus shipping. The Catalog address is: The King Arthur Flour Baker's Catalogue, P.O. Box 876, Norwich, Vermont 05055-0876. It's easier to just call their toll free number and order one. That number is: 1-800-343-3002. - --Bev in Mn ------------------------------ From: CHEFLZ@aol.com Date: Sun, 14 Jan 1996 10:36:50 -0500 Subject: STORING BREAD & ADDING LIQUOR I have read of several methods of storing freshly baked bread,& I've had good luck in keeping it in a plastic bag(with air holes in it!) for about 1 1/2 weeks, except for a VERY, VERY moist loaf which I bagged & sealed(not wanting it to mold), & then refrigerated,BUT are there any better, or other ways? Also, what about putting a small amount of liquor in dough as a flavorer, would that hurt the yeast? THANKS, Larry Ziegler ------------------------------ From: ClayCooker@aol.com Date: Sun, 14 Jan 1996 11:21:06 -0500 Subject: sourdough info re: V6#57 Michael Greenberg asked about his sourdough starter? There is a really good Sourdough book our called: WORLDWIDE SOURDOUGHS FROM YOUR BREAD MACHINE written by Donna German (who has written many bread machine books) and Dr. Ed Wood who is a retired Physician scientist and authority on sourdough breads. Might be worth it to pick up this book. It is published in San Leandro, CA by Bristol Publishing Enterprises, Inc. and is a "NiTTY GRITTY" Cookbook. Dr. Wood uses NO store yeast in his breads. Donna German does! It's interesting reading too! Hope this might help? Bev in Mn. ------------------------------ From: ClayCooker@aol.com Date: Sun, 14 Jan 1996 11:20:50 -0500 Subject: Sun-Dried Tomato Herb Bread RE: V6 #57 Penchard asked for a Whole Wheat Bread with Sun dried Tomatoes: This recipe is from "The Bread Machine Cookbook by Melissa Clark and is called: SUN-DRIED TOMATO HERB BREAD 1# Size and (1-1/2# size) 1 C. (1-1/3 C) WATER 2 T. (3T.) OLIVE OIL 1/4 C. (1/3 C.) fresh BASIL LEAVES 2 T. (3T) fresh PARSLEY LEAVES 1 (1-1/2) cloves GARLIC, mashed 2 tsp. (2-1/2 tsp.) SUGAR 1 tsp. (1-1/2 tsp.) SALT 3/4 tsp. (1 tsp) PEPPER 1 C. (1-1/2 C.) Whole Wheat FLOUR 2 C. (2-1/2 C.) Bread FLOUR 1-1/2 tsp. (2-1/2 tsp.) YEAST 1/2 C. (2/3 C) oil-packed sun- dried TOMATOES, chopped Bake according to manuf. instruct. Add sun-dried tomatoes 5 min before the final kneading is finished...Bev in Mn ------------------------------ From: AFV63@aol.com Date: Sun, 14 Jan 1996 09:08:44 -0500 Subject: Re: bread-bakers-digest V6 #57 In a message dated 96-01-14 08:40:13 EST, you write: >Now my two questions, >How to proof yeast >my bread is not rising always, I want to test my yeast, but do not remember >how to do it. Add the yeast to warm water and a little sugar and keep in a warm area. If the yeast is "alive" you should get a lot of foam in about an hour. If you're using fresh yeast (instead of dried or instant) make sure that you aren't using yeast that is brown and dried out or wet and slimy looking. When fresh yeast is exposed to oxygen, it causes the yeast to autolyze and enzymes and other stuff to leak out of the ruptured yeast cells. The autolyzed yeast will make your dough too soft and since autolyzed yeast is dead, it can't help the bread rise. ------------------------------ From: ClayCooker@aol.com Date: Sun, 14 Jan 1996 11:20:58 -0500 Subject: Three Olive Breads RE: V6 #57 Penchard asked for a Whole Wheat Bread with Olives: This recipe is from "The Bread Machine Cookbook by Melissa Clark and is called: PROSCIUTTO OLIVE TOMATO BREAD 1# and (1-1/2# size) 1 C. (1-1/3 C.) WATER 2 T. (3T.) Vegetable OIL 1/3 C. (1/2 C.) Ripe TOMATO, chopped 1/3 C. (1/2 C.) Pitted Alfonse, or other wine-cured olives. 1/3 C. (1/3 C.) Prosciutto, shredded 2 tsp. (1T.) SUGAR 1/2 tsp. (2/3 tsp.) SAGE 1 tsp. (1-1/2 tsp.) SALT 1/3 C. (1/2 C.) Rye FLOUR 1-1/2 C. (1-2/3 C.) Whole-Wheat FLOUR 1-1/2 C. (2 C.) Bread FLOUR 1-1/2 tsp. (2-1/2 tsp.) YEAST Bake according to manuf. instructions. OLIVE COUNTRY BREAD 1# and (1-1/2# size) 1 C. (1-1/3 C.) WATER 2 T. (3 T.) Fresh LARD, or OLIVE OIL 2 tsp. (1 T.) SUGAR 1 tsp. (1-1/2 tsp.) SALT 1 T. (1-1/2 T) dried ROSEMARY, or 3T, (1/4 C.) fresh ROSEMARY 1-1/2 C. (2 C.) Whole-wheat FLOUR 1-1/2 C. (2 C.) Bread FLOUR 1-1/2 tsp. (2-1/2 tsp.) YEAST 2/3 C. (3/4 C.) pitted Moroccan OLIVES, or other good-quality black olives. Bake accord. to Manuf. Instruct. Add OLIVES five minutes before the final kneading is finished. CAPER OLIVE BREAD 1# and (1-1/2# size) 1 C. (1-1/3 C.) WATER 2 T. (3 T.) OLIVE OIL 1/3 C. (1/2 C.) fresh PARSLEY 2 tsp. (1 T.) SUGAR 1 tsp. (1-1/2 tsp.) SALT 1-1/2 C. (2 C.) Whole -wheat FLOUR 1-1/2 C. (2 C.) Bread FLOUR 1-1/2 tsp. (2-1/2 tsp) YEAST 1/3 C. (1/2 C.) CAPERS 1/3 C. (1/2 C.) pitted GREEN OLIVES Bake Accord to Manuf. Instruct. Add OLIVES and CAPERS five minutes before the final kneading is finished. Hope one of these might fit the bill? Bev in Mn ------------------------------ From: CHEFLZ@aol.com Date: Thu, 18 Jan 1996 13:34:26 -0500 Subject: THANKS A LOT! I REALLY APPRECIATE THIS NEWSLETTER!!, DR.LARRY ZIEGLER ------------------------------ From: Blanche007@aol.com Date: Wed, 17 Jan 1996 20:03:51 -0500 Subject: Re: bread-bakers-digest V6 #57 Re cracked wheat: call the King Arthur Flour Bakers Catalogue: 800 827-6836. Tell 'em Lora sent you. ------------------------------ From: Blanche007@aol.com Date: Wed, 17 Jan 1996 19:55:54 -0500 Subject: Re: bread-bakers-digest V6 #57 To Terry Wilde re low gluten recipes and bread machines - call Beth Hillson at the Gluten Free Pantry 203 633 3826 - she'll help you. ------------------------------ From: "J. R. Link" Date: Mon, 15 Jan 1996 19:34:26 PST Subject: Re: bread-bakers-digest V6 #57 Could some one tell me what is the difference between cut oats and rolled oats? - --------------- Jackie Link Fremont,Ca. - --------------- ------------------------------ From: Blanche007@aol.com Date: Wed, 17 Jan 1996 20:06:53 -0500 Subject: Re: bread-bakers-digest V6 #57 To Onnie about yeast - buy yeast in bulk. Forget those envelopes. They are expensive and a waste. Go to Costco or Sam's or = and look for Red Star Yeast in bulk. ------------------------------ From: an127@rgfn.epcc.Edu (Marie L. McMahel) Date: Sat, 20 Jan 96 18:26:11 MST Subject: Re: Bread bakers digest list... I would like you to ask the list to email me with the pros and cons of the lower priced bread machines, as my funds are very limited. Thanks again! Marie ------------------------------ From: yyj00138@cyberstore.ca (Steve Newell) Date: Sun, 14 Jan 1996 13:13:15 -0800 (PST) Subject: Cheese Danish Hi I was wondering if there was anyone with a cheese danish recipe, I have a Hitachi Bread Machine. None of the cookbooks I have has this recipe. Thanks. I'm here because I'm not all there! ------------------------------ From: dorothy talbott Date: Sun, 14 Jan 1996 14:42:57 -0500 (EST) Subject: MasterCook Okay, I give up...will someone PLEASE tell me what Master Cook and Master Cook II are please?? I kept waiting to ask figuring that sooner or later I would understand it; well I don't! I think it's something I want. The recipes sound delicious! Info, please. Kay Talbott ktalbott@nccu.edu South Brunswick Middle School Southport, NC 28461 ------------------------------ From: Blanche007@aol.com Date: Wed, 17 Jan 1996 21:05:14 -0500 Subject: Re: bread-bakers-digest V6 #57 To Debby re sweet yeast breads. You live in MA and can get King Arthur flour (regular, white, unbleached). Use it! Also add a couple of talbespoons of non-fat dry milk - this will give you a tender crust and crumb. For sweet doughs I like the Special for sweet breads yeast that you can get thru the King Arthur Catalogue 800 827-6836. Lora Brody ------------------------------ From: scarel@richmond.infi.net (Sherrie Carel) Date: Tue, 16 Jan 1996 16:18:21 -0500 Subject: stuck bread pan Here's hoping that someone can help. My bread machine pan is stuck. I have tried all the ways I know to unstick it. My machine is a Zo and I have had it for over 3 years. It's just been recently that I have had trouble. Also, does anyone have Franzel's email address? He is the one who sold me the pan. Maybe he could help. Thank you. Sherrie Carel ------------------------------ From: "Barbara S. Wand" Date: Sun, 14 Jan 1996 22:38:32 -0500 Subject: Question re American Harvest Machine I have an American Harvest machine (with two pans that allows to you bake two loaves at a time), and I really like it. The one problem that I have is that many times, the loaves come out with caked-on flour on the bottom corners of the loaves. Have any of you experienced this with your bread machines? What does one do to correct it? Many thanks! ------------------------------ From: "J. R. Link" Date: Mon, 15 Jan 1996 19:34:37 PST Subject: Re: Gluten Health food store had it at $2.50 per lb. Seems high. I got a little to try with my whole wheat flour worked well. Use a table spoon I think it said per cup of flour but I just used 2 tbl for 6 cups of four and it was fine. Flour that says Best for Bread really gives me a lighter loaf than regular flour.But I have used both with out gluten. - --------------- Jackie Link Fremont,Ca. - --------------- ------------------------------ From: TrinaMaria@aol.com Date: Mon, 15 Jan 1996 14:30:38 -0500 Subject: all purpose flour bread Here is a recipe for Bonnie, so she and any others can use their all purpose flour: BASIC BREAD 2tsp yeast; 3C regular all purpose flour; 3tsp gluten; 2tsp salt; 3tbsp sugar; 3tbsp dry milk; 2tbsp butter; 1C water --> Toss yeast in bread machine first; cover w/ flour and add other dry ingredients; take butter from fridge, crumple and add; use room temperature water. ------------------------------ From: BrendaB992@aol.com Date: Wed, 17 Jan 1996 00:51:41 -0500 Subject: Re: Apple Cider Cinnamon Bread recipe Reggie: You are right - that recipe is out of this world. I made it yesterday and my husband and I enjoyed it for "dessert" last night, for breakfast this am, and also "dessert": this evening. Thanks! Brenda (who, by the way, has a little R2D2 Welbilt that is so sturdy and refuses to do, despite falling off my kitchen island recently - nothing even broke! I've had it for 5 plus years and am dying for a new one!) ------------------------------ From: ClayCooker@aol.com Date: Sun, 14 Jan 1996 11:21:03 -0500 Subject: factory programmed machines Re: V6 #57 The only factory programmed bread machine I know of is the Zojirushi. I have the Zojirushi S-15. The best PRICE and SERVICE is from a very nice fellow in Florida by the name of Irwin Franzel. You can contact him easily via e-mail. Just write to: CPXD31A@Prodigy.com and he will be more than happy to send you all the information you could ask for! I think he also has an 800# but I don't have that handy. Hope this is the info you are looking for. Bev in Mn ------------------------------ From: Blanche007@aol.com Date: Wed, 17 Jan 1996 20:06:13 -0500 Subject: Re: bread-bakers-digest V6 #57 To Connie re flour, salt and sugar: Connie, by all means use your regular flour - make sure it has at least 12 grams of protein per cup - it will be fine for white bread. You can make bread withour sugar or other sweeteners, however bread made without salt lacks both flavor and well developed texture. Salt makes the yeast work longer and slower over the course of the dough making -this makes for good texture and flavor. No salt will make the dough rise too fast (sometimes too high). ------------------------------ From: Gerard_Mcmahon@ftdetrck-ccmail.army.mil Date: Wed, 17 Jan 96 10:44:42 EST Subject: re: cracked wheat source Date: Mon, 15 Jan 1996 10:25:00 -0500 Subject: SourDough Starter Question Hi, I'm trying to make the Red Grape Sour Dough starter that is in Julia Child's Cooking with Master Cooks. The first stage is allowing the flour/water/grapes to sit for 6 days, stirring daily. I did that. Yesterday, I transfered the mixture to a clean container, and added 1 cup flour and 1 cup water. The mixture was supposed to bubble up in 3 to 4 hours. Well, I only saw about 4 bubbles after 5 hours. I covered and placed in refrigerator as per directions. I have two more feedings to go before the starter is ready for use. But I'm not sure everything is working right.... The starter does smell sour - like vinegar. Is that how the starter should smell? Any other hints on things to look for to know if the starter is ok? Thanks for any advice! Terry Capps capps@bnr.ca Raleigh, NC ------------------------------ From: Dave Jerzycki Date: Wed, 17 Jan 1996 07:54:23 -0700 Subject: Hitachi I've followed the negative comments over the last few months regarding the Hitachi bread machine. I've had mine (a 201B), for about 3 or 4 years now and couldn't be happier with it. Never had an electrical problem, a mechanical problem, or a bread diaster. My loafs come out fine, I use the regular cycle, the make dough cycle, when I want to finish the dough by hand or make pizza dough, and I can even make whole wheat bread with it. I always measure by weight my ingredients, not by volume, and make sure the cold ingredients, (like butter or eggs or yeast) are as close to room temp as possible. I always use warm water, about 100 - 110 degrees, (it will cool a little in the pan before the yeast get mixed in.) I'm sure there are other people out there that have a Hitachi that are as pleased with it as I am. Dave Jerzycki daveje@hpgrla ------------------------------ From: bzwax@tiac.net (Rich & Debbie) Date: Tue, 16 Jan 1996 19:08:38 -0500 Subject: stuck shaft/paddle on Zoji Hello, all: Sometimes I find that the shaft that on which the mixing paddle sits for my Zoji gets frozen. The darn thing just won't turn in either direction and I don't usually find that this has happened until the poor machine is straining to turn the shaft. NOT a pleasant discovery, because it means I either have to get it going some way or make the dough by hand (horrors!). In the past, all I have been able to do is make the shaft move using force (when I can: I often have to wait for our resident carpenter who has stronger hands than mine to get home!). This happens in about 1 in 15 loaves....otherwise, it's just fine! My question is: what can I do to prevent this? is this an indication that something is wrong with my mixing bucket? what can I do when I don't seem to have enough strength to move it? Thanks, Debbie Bier Concord, MA ------------------------------ From: "J. R. Link" Date: Mon, 15 Jan 1996 19:34:29 PST Subject: Re: SF sourdough No we in the SF bay area just can't get the exact sourdough flavor. That is why the SF sourdough company produces and sells so well. What is of interest is that Colombo, Toscano, Parisian and Bodean are all the SF Sourdough company and using the same sour dough starter. No they won't give me a sample. I use three different sour dough starters each gives a slightly different flavor but I still buy Sf sourdough that is made by SF sourdough companies. Also the flavor even varies with in this company. The hand kneaded or smaller batch stuff like Boudean tastes better. More tart I think. They have wonderful very hot ovens. Home ovens don't get that hot. So when in San Francisco or the bay area or at the airports pick up a loaf. I figure I won't pass up a good product. Mine is good just different. One time I heard that they flew the starter in from France but that might have just been some tall tale. - --------------- Jackie Link Fremont,Ca. - --------------- ------------------------------ From: Marta Martin Date: Mon, 15 Jan 1996 04:19:15 -0500 Subject: Re: bread-bakers-digest V6 #57 Regarding Michael Greenberg's question on Sourdough Starter. He wrote that no matter how long he leaves the starter out to proof, he cannot develop the strong sourdough flavor he seeks. I am no expert, but it has been my experience that it is not so much how long the starter is left out to proof, but how often it is used and fed that determines the level of sour taste. The more you use your starter and replenish it, the better the flavor gets. If you use the starter every 4 to 7 days, or at least take out a cup of the starter and then replenish if you are not going to bake bread, this ought to get you on your way. Hope this helps. Marta Martin marta@citynet.net ============================================================================ Marta Martin-(marta@citynet.net) Inside me there is a thin woman dying to get out. I ate her for lunch. Hallmark Cards I can barf like a dog. Toren, 3 years old Shake your hips and hope for the best. Camille, age 9 ============================================================================= ------------------------------ From: "J. R. Link" Date: Mon, 15 Jan 1996 19:34:32 PST Subject: Re: Bread machines and such I have a Panasonic bread maker. Love it but too small. My daughter has Hitachi and it makes a larger loaf of bread comes out well. But this Christmas I got a new Kitchenaide Mixer. The 350 watts with bread hook. This is the best as You can make all sorts of bread. The panasonic and Hitachi hard to judge the moisture for making sour dough. Panasonic minces up raisin etc so small so you have to add them part way through the cycle a pain. The kitchen aide mixer is a replacement for one I had since 1957 which is still working but no bread hook so I gave it to my son. I think if you want more than one loaf and you like to bake go the Kitchenaide route. If you want only a loaf now and then and want it very simple, measuring is the only thing that is fussy, buy a bread maker. My other son has Betty Crocker hot air blowing type my son likes very well. He is single and one loaf is fine for him. Barbara German puts out great books for bread makers and also has articles in the front of her oblong cookbooks rating the machines. - --------------- Jackie Link Fremont,Ca. - --------------- ------------------------------ From: KCHolz@aol.com Date: Fri, 19 Jan 1996 01:06:53 -0500 Subject: Zoji; Powdered Milk Hi, I started subscribing to this list about 4 months ago before I started baking bread to learn about this world and figure out what machine to tell Santa about. After reading about your problems with various machines I requested a Zoji, one that many of you seemed happy with. Good news: Santa came through and we've baked over 20 successful loaves already! All loaves have been good, and by adjusting a bit of yeast and a bit of water, we've gotten some nearly perfect. The only problem we had was that the belt came off the drive wheel (for the kneading blade) since the little set screw that holds it together came loose. It was an easy fix but did involve taking off the bottom of the machine. (You'll know this when it happens since instead of the "thump, thump" of the kneading cycle, you'll get a very loud chattering.) One cookbook we've really enjoyed has been "Electric Bread". It's easy to read, relatively simple, and has some tantalizing combinations. Our favorite so far is Chocolate Cherry Bread. The only problem that I have with the cookbook is that it often calls for a small amount of powdered milk (1-2 Tbs.). I try to stay vegan whenever possible, so I'd love to find a substitute. I've successfully replaced any eggs with "Egg Replacer" but I'm not sure what to use for the milk. Does anyone know what the function of the powdered milk is? Can I replace it with another "milk" like rice milk? If so, do I need to reduce the other liquids? Thanks in advance for the help. Happy Baking! Katherina KCHolz@aol.com ------------------------------ From: ellen@brakes.elekta.com Date: Thu, 18 Jan 1996 12:37:49 -0400 Subject: Zoj price is coming down I just spoke with Irwin at the Delta Rehab Center. (This is the lowcost, mail-order distributor of the S-15A Zojirushi.) He told me that effective Feb. 1, Zo was reducing the price of the machine by $10. The Delta Rehab will make that retroative to January 1, so that means the machine, including shipping, is now only $250! My machine just arrived and I am in the process of baking my first loaf--a honey whole wheat from the Donna German's Bread baking IV book. What's unique about this recipe is that it contains a fair amount of honey and very, very little salt. Here it is, and if it comes out anything less than spectacular, I'll let you know. * Exported from MasterCook Mac * HONEY WHEAT BREAD Recipe By : The Bread Machine Cookbook IV,Donna Rathmell German,p. 23 Serving Size : 1 Preparation Time :0:00 Categories : Bread Machine Breads Amount Measure Ingredient -- Preparation Method - -------- ------------ -------------------------------- For Medium size loaf: 1 1/8 cups water -- or milk 1/3 cup honey 1/3 teaspoon salt 1 1/2 tablespoons vital gluten -- optional (up to 3 tblsp) 3 cups whole wheat flour 2 teaspoons active dry yeast (or 1 1/2 tsp if using SAF instant yeast) Use regular/whole wheat cycle and medium crust setting. - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -- Ellen ellen@brakes.elekta.com ------------------------------ End of bread-bakers-digest V6 #58 ********************************* bread-bakers-digest Saturday, 20 January 1996 Volume 06 : Number 059 Today's Subjects: Barley and Oat Bread Fed up with my bread machine! RE: Basics Re: Basic Questions Hazelnut Bread And Biscotti bread-bakers digest V6 #57 Re: bread-bakers-digest V6 #57 bread digest answers Re: Bread bakers digest list... ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Reggie Dwork Date: Fri, 19 Jan 1996 03:15:56 -0800 Subject: Barley and Oat Bread Here is a really tasty loaf of bread that I made today. * Exported from MasterCook II * Barley And Oat Bread Recipe By : The Best Bread Machine Cookbook Ever, Madge Rosenberg Serving Size : 10 Preparation Time :0:00 Categories : Bread Machine Grains Low Fat Amount Measure Ingredient -- Preparation Method - -------- ------------ -------------------------------- 1 1/2 Lb Loaf: -- (1 lb loaf): 2 1/4 Tsp Active Dry Yeast -- (1 1/2 t) 2 1/2 C Bread Flour -- (1 2/3 C) 3/4 C Barley Flour -- (1/2 C) 1/3 C Rolled Oats -- (1/4 C) 3 Tbsp Wheat Germ -- (2 T), I omitted 3 Tbsp Nonfat Dry Milk Powder -- (2 T) 3 Tbsp Orange Zest -- grated, (2 T) 3 Tbsp Sesame Seeds -- optional, (2 T) 1 1/2 Tsp Salt -- (1 t) 3 Tbsp Honey -- (2 T) 1 1/2 Tsp Wonderslim -- *NOTE, (1/2 T) 1 1/3 C Water -- (3/4 C + 2 T) *NOTE: The original recipe used 1 1/2 T vegetable oil (1 T). A moist and chewy loaf like this one makes good peanut butter, tuna, or fresh ham sandwiches and excellent toast. It goes well with vegetable and meat soups, especially Scotch broth. Add all ingredients in the order suggested by your bread machine manual and process on the basic bread cycle according to the manufacturer's directions. Eat warm - but not hot - or cool. Entered into MasterCook II and tested for you by Reggie Dwork - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Hope you enjoy it. Reggie ------------------------------ From: DEHOLD@ccmail.monsanto.com Date: Tue, 16 Jan 1996 18:21:19 -0600 Subject: Fed up with my bread machine! Anybody want to buy a used Zojirushi? I about ready to throw this machine out the door onto the sidewalk! We received a Zoj for a wedding present about a year and a half ago. I suspect this may be an older model machine because it only has the four basic cycles - no crust adjustment or quick bread cycle. I have never seen my machine's model in any store or catalog where they sell this brand of bread machine. Anyway, the bread that I have made has *never* been what I would consider superior to even store bought loaf bread, hand-made bread or even other people's machine bread. The bread my machine produces comes out tasting all ready like it is three day's old - pretty dry and crumbly. In addition, for the past year or so, the loaves have only rarely risen satisfactorily. Most loaves are dense and heavy. When I first used the machine, I got loaves rising up to the lid (but still dry), but they are short and stumpy now. I have used different yeast (brands and freshness). I thought the answer was that I needed to bring everything to room temp but that yields no improvement. In addition, it seems that no matter what 'flavor' of bread that I make, they all have the same "taste". I've changed flours but they still all have the similar "background flavor". Is this normal? I stopped baking as frequently as I used to when I realized that I was trying to convince myself that this was good bread because, of course, it was fresh and hot, etc. but I finally admitted to myself "No, this is, in fact, not good bread." When I first tried some bread from a friend's machine, I was shocked at how moist, and flavorful it was - and it was just a basic wheat bread recipe. Remedies that I have tried include: increase water about a teaspoon or so (only little improvement), different recipes from different sources, extreme accuracy in measurement (not by weight, by volume only), bringing ingredients to room temp., new yeast, different yeast, various other tips that I have read about on this list. What else can I try to get out of my breadmachine blues? Thanks in advance. DeAnn Holden ------------------------------ From: "Michael E. Grabenstein" Date: Mon, 15 Jan 1996 21:28:29 -0500 Subject: RE: Basics #1: You can use all purpose flour. You can not use self raising... The "bread" flours just have more gluten and are usually a better milling than all purpose. But if you have a quality all purpose, it is probably just as good. #2: Gluten is sold at most large grocery stores (like you local Giant). Usualy one puts about a Tbs spoon full in a loaf of bread. It is used with whole wheat and all purpose flours that are too coarse or do not have enough gluten in them. What it does is set up the structure in the flour that makes it sticky and traps the air bubbles made by the yeast (which is how the bread raises). #3: Nope you can omit salt and sugar, as long as you understand what you are doing. Salt limits the growth of the yeast, so if you use less salt you need either less sugar, or less yeast, or both. Salts other importance is taste... Sugar can be substituted or omitted. Substitues would be orange juice concentrate (also adds water), applesause, jelly, fruit, etc... If you choose to omit the sugar, you will need more yeast and less salt... Note some recipes will not work if you make these changes, but most will, if you get the rest of the stuff figured out right. A loaf of bread is a delicate balance of the ingredients. #4: "Proof the yeast" is a term when using a sour dough starter. Get used to regular loaves, then start experimenting here. With sour dough you add some flour and water mixture that has fermented and to allow you to keep a portion of this for future use. You have to feed the "starter" water and flour and let it ferment (or proof) for some time (8-12 hours ussually). #5: you must be exact with certain things, somethings can be pinched. but 1) water, 2) flour, 3) yeast must be EXACT. A loaf is again a delicate balance of ingredients and your machine is a programmed to do things at certain times. If you bake by hand, you feel it and watch it and if it need more time you give it more, if it need more water you give it to it. the bread machine does nothing like this, at 20 minutes it stops kneading period, whether or not the dough is too dry, or too wet, or needs more kneading. Also becareful, a too dry dough can damage your machine. Later, Mike Michael.Grabenstein@gsfc.nasa.gov ------------------------------ From: Darrell_Greenwood@mindlink.net Date: Sun, 14 Jan 1996 14:56:21 -0800 Subject: Re: Basic Questions Bonnie Pollack writes; > #1. Why can't I use all purpose flour. I have some to get rid of two > large packages You can... and it may produce a nicer loaf of bread to your taste. I keep both all purpose and bread flour on hand... and sometimes mix the two dependent on the bread style I am making. > #2 What is gluten and where is it sold? And if I have to add it, in > what quantity? Gluten is the component of flour that traps, after being developed by kneading, the carbon dioxide gas produced by the yeast and causes the bread to rise. Gluten content of flour runs ~8-10% (cake and pastry), ~11-12% (all-purpose), ~13-14%(bread). You shouldn't have to add it normally with all-purpose or bread flour. > #3 Can bread be salt or sugar free or does the yeast need them to > rise? Sourdough bread is naturally sugar free as the yeast strain gets its nutrients from the flour only. Commercial yeast has been developed to be most effective with sugar as its food so omitting the sugar in an active yeast recipe will starve the yeast and your bread with not rise as much. It turns out that salt acts as a dough conditioner in addition to being a flavoring... so again your rises may not be as great if you omit it. > #4 What is "proof the yeast" Testing that is still alive. Generally by putting a dry active yeast in a sugar and water solution and seeing if bubbles are produced showing that it is still active. > #5 Why do measurements have to be so exact? I cook with "pinches" and > get crazy when asked to do something EXACTLY. Too many variables otherwise. A bread machine steps through its cycles regardless of the condition of the dough. If you are making bread by hand you can (and will) make adjustments for too dry or too wet, etc. Small variations cause big problems in the final bread if not corrected. > I have most of my trouble with the yeast packets. Some of the > recipes ask for a 1/4th more or less. I dump the entire packet and it > seems ok. Since yeast is a living organism, capable of multiplying, and does multiply in the dough, its variation is the least critical. Exam over? Great. :-) You may want to look at -- URL: I have pointers on this web page to various sourdough FAQ sources and information. Cheers, Darrell - -- Darrell Greenwood, Vancouver, BC darrell_greenwood@mindlink.net My web homepage... http://mindlink.net/darrell_greenwood/ ------------------------------ From: Reggie Dwork Date: Fri, 19 Jan 1996 03:15:56 -0800 Subject: Hazelnut Bread And Biscotti Well, I made this today and it smells wonderful as it is cooking. We were were going to make it into biscotti *but* we couldn't wait...so we just cut into it and ate it. Maybe the next loaf will be become biscotti or again... maybe not!! * Exported from MasterCook II * Hazelnut Bread And Biscotti Recipe By : The Best Bread Machine Cookbook Ever, Madge Rosenberg Serving Size : 16 Preparation Time :0:00 Categories : Bread Machine Cookies Italian Amount Measure Ingredient -- Preparation Method - -------- ------------ -------------------------------- 1 1/2 Lb Loaf: -- (1 lb loaf): 1 1/2 Tsp Active Dry Yeast -- (1 t) 2 1/4 C Bread Flour -- (1 1/2 C) 3/4 C Whole-Wheat Flour -- (1/2 C) 2 Tbsp Wheat Germ -- I omitted, (2 T) 3 Tbsp Nonfat Dry Milk Powder -- (2 T) 1/4 C Sugar -- PLUS 2 Tbsp Sugar -- (1/4 C) 3 tbsp Anise Seed -- or fennel seed, -- (2 T) 1 1/2 tbsp Wonderslim -- *NOTE, (2 T) 1 C Water -- PLUS 2 tbsp Water -- (3/4 C) 3/4 C Hazelnuts -- chopped, (1/2 C) *NOTE: The original recipe used 3 T vegetable oil (2 T). Biscotti are twice-baked cookies - a favorite Italian dessert. They are served with cappuccino, red wine or hot chocolate, and they keep so well that you can always have a supply on hand. Add all ingredients except the hazelnuts in the order suggested by your bread machine manual and process on the basic bread cycle according to the manufacturer's directions. At the beeper (or at the end of the first kneading in the Panasonic or National), add the hazelnuts. Let cool or eat warm. To make biscotti, preheat your oven to 350 deg F. Slice cooled bread 1/2" thick. Cut slices into fingers 1" wide. Place on baking sheet and toast for 15 - 20 min. The fresher the bread, the longer it needs to toast. Let cool and store in airtight containers or freeze. I didn't get to make this into biscotti as it smelled so good we went ahead and ate it!! This is an *excellent* bread. Probably very good as biscotti also...maybe next time. Entered into MasterCook II and tested for you by Reggie Dwork - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - NOTES : Cal 152.9 Fat 4.1g Carbs 25.3g Dietary Fiber 1.9g Protein 4.6g Sodium 6mg CFF 23.6% ------------------------------ From: smile@ridgecrest.ca.us (Mary Ash) Date: Sun, 14 Jan 1996 13:36:05 -0800 Subject: bread-bakers digest V6 #57 The following bread baking tips are for Debbie Bier in Concord, MA and Bonnie Pollack. First for Debbie: I have had good luck using straight bread flour for all my sweet dough type recipes. You can cheat and use high gluten flour with all purpose flour. Check the high gluten flour package directions for the amount to use. Using a good hard flour will produce nice tender coffee cakes, etc. Remember to keep the dough soft, almost sticky but you should be able to knead it to a smooth dough, and you'll always have good sweet dough. For Bonnie: 1) You can use all purpose flour if you add high gluten flour to the bread dough. Substitute a portion of the high gluten flour for the all purpose flour. Check the high gluten flour package for directions. 2) Gluten flour is sold at health food stores (where I buy mine) or you could probably order it from King Arthur's Flour catalog. 3) You need sugar in order to feed the yeast. Yeast is a living creature that needs to be fed. Feed it sugar to help with growth. No sugar, no growth. As to salt, it helps improve the flavor of the bread product but bread can be made without it. Check the rising times and they'll usually have to be cut in half. Be sure when using the bread maker to follow the manufacturer's directions on using yeast. For my bread machine I always place the salt separately from the yeast when adding ingredients. This is very important when allowing the ingredients to sit awhile. The salt will kill the yeast if placed too close together. 4) Proofing the yeast is checking it to make sure the critters are still alive. This usually translates to placing the yeast in the appropriate temperature of water with a little sugar and the yeast. If the yeast, water, sugar mixture begins to bubble and smelly yeasty the yeast is alive and will work in your recipe. If not, try another batch of yeast. Today most modern recipes do not require proofing the yeast, but if in doubt of the viability of the yeast, test a batch of yeast by doing the above method. Most recipes today, including breadmaker recipes, just have the bread baker mix dry ingredients together and then add liquid ingredients. 5) Bread baking is never exact in most phases of baking except when it comes to salt, sugar, yeast and temperature. Too much salt and temperature will kill the yeast. Too much yeast will leave the bread tasting yeasty and will rise too much and collapse after baking. Adding too much sugar won't hurt too much but it will slow the rising times. Adding flour and liquids are a little less critical since they are dependent on the flour dryness and type. In the end, all kneaded yeast doughs should end up being soft, satiny and smooth after kneading. Happy baking! Mary Ash ------------------------------ From: Blanche007@aol.com Date: Wed, 17 Jan 1996 21:18:46 -0500 Subject: Re: bread-bakers-digest V6 #57 To Sheila: For Perfect Loaves Every Time * USE GOOD QUALITY HARD WHEAT FLOUR THAT HAS AT LEAST 12 GRAMS OF PROTEIN PER CUP. (I like King Arthur) * USE FRESH, QUICK DISSOLVING ACTIVE YEAST SUCH AS RED STAR. * OPEN THE MACHINE AND CHECK THE DOUGH DURING THE FIRST 5 - 10 MINUTES OF THE FIRST KNEADING CYCLE !!! Even if your manual says not to do it. Flour acts as a sponge absorbing moisture on wet days and becoming dehydrated during dry weather. You'll have to adjust for fluctuating humidity and barometric pressure by adding small amounts of flour or liquid to the dough. So, you've never made bread before. How do you know how much to add? If the dough looks sticky and wet, is sticking to the bottom and sides of the pan, then sprinkle in flour, a tablespoon at a time (you may need up to an extra 1/2 cup) while the machine is kneading, until you have a smooth, firm ball of dough. If the mixture is dry and corrugated looking or the dough won't hold together then sprinkle in additional liquid, a little at a time, until the dough is smooth and pliable and forms a cohesive ball. If you've wandered away from your machine only to return to find a wet messy glob or a dry desert thumping around in the machine, press STOP (you can do this at any time - except if the machine has gone into the bake cycle), add a small amount of flour or liquid and press START. Stick around and make additional adjustments, if necessary, until the dough looks right. You've never baked before - how can you tell if the dough looks right? Go to the stop. Buy frozen dough, let it defrost according to the package directions. Place it on a lightly floured surface and play with it until you are familiar with the consistency. This is what you're aiming for in the bread machine. I have found that when you are either making dough, or placing the ingredients in the machine to make bread at that time, you can add either the liquids first or the dry ingredients first. The major exception to this is the old DAK (no longer made) where the yeast must be placed in the bread pan first in a position farthest away from the kneading blade. When programming ahead make sure to place any dried fruits away from contact with wet ingredients as they will absorb those liquids and throw off the recipe. EXTRAS Extra kneads and extra rise times all contribute to the depth of flavor, character of the crumb and general personality of a loaf of bread. One of the reasons I dislike rapid rise yeast and rapid cycles on the bread machines is that the dough really requires the entire life span of the yeast to become the amazing miracle that is bread. If you are partial to whole grain breads and are winding up with lower loaves than you wish, then try a double knead cycle: place the ingredients in the machine and program for DOUGH or MANUAL. At the end of the final knead reprogram the machine for BREAD (of Whole Wheat) and press start. You've given the dough an extra work-out to develop the gluten - that will result in a higher loaf. For an even higher loaf you can (if your machine permits) program for a longer rise time, or simply remove the dough from the pan after the final rise cycle (but before baking) transfer it to a bread pan and allow it to raise in a warm place until doubled in bulk. Then bake it in the oven. Sweet doughs with lots of butter and eggs, also respond well to a second long rise in a cool place. I remove my brioche from the machine after the DOUGH cycle is complete. I place it in a large freezer strength zip lock bag and refrigerate it overnight. Then I place it back in the machine (my Zojirushi has flexible programming), program for 2nd rise and bake. If you can't program your machine this way you can place the dough in a bread pan after you remove it from the machine, give it a long, refrigerated rise, and then bake it in the oven. Even non-wheat and non-sweet doughs can benefit from this extra rise. Hope this helps...Lora Brody ------------------------------ From: LoisCon@aol.com Date: Mon, 15 Jan 1996 16:19:50 -0500 Subject: bread digest answers Sherry asked where to buy cracked wheat. Here are some possible sources: Bob's Red Mill 1-800-553-2258. Jaffe Brothers 1-619-749-1133 Walnut Acres 1-800-433-3998 You can also substitute bulger..which is cracked wheat that has been parboiled. It will absorb your liquids faster. You can soften it by soaking. Contact me by E-mail for more instructions which we have in our book, The Bread Machine Magic Book of Helpful Hints. Debbie asked what kind of flour to use for a yeast-raised coffee cake. I would advise all-purpose flour. (assuming this is not being done in a bread machine) Therese asked about programmable bread machines for low or gluten-free breads. The only true programmable bread machine is the Zojirushi. It also has a pin on the side which makes for superior kneading which is helpful with these recipes. The West Bend Bakers Choice has a cycle in which you can extend the rising time but not the kneading time. A good book for these recipes is: Easy Bread Making For Special Diets by Nicolette Dumke. This is available through King Arthur Flour E-mail me for more sources at LoisCon@AOL.com Michael Greeenberg asked about getting his sourdough more "sour". Some suggestions. 1. Use non-fat or low-fat milk in your starter. 2.Another suggestion is to take out the starter the night before. 3.What we do with our sourdough recipe in Bread Machine Magic is to start it the night before. We take half the flour called for in our recipe, add to it the starter at room temperature, and the water. Mix well,cover, and let sit in a warm place for 12-24 hours till sour and bubbly. Hope this helps. Lois Jenka asked how to make the hole left in the bread from the bread machine smaller. After the last punchdown and before the last rising (this varies with machines),pull the dough out, remove the paddle, and put the dough back into the bread pan. This will solve the problem. Zoji owners can now buy a Finish pan from Irwin Franzel. This pan will do a bread with no holes. You can cut the last size in quarters to minimize the holes. We have found different machines make different size holes! Bonnie asked why she can't use all purpose flour with the bread machine. You can Bonnie, but you will have to add gluten, 1 1/2 teaspoons per cup of flour. Bread flour has a higher gluten percentage. Your bread will not rise as high with all-purpose flour. Gluten is a protein. You can find it at health food stores,or at places like King Arthur, in a box, and in bulk. It is a key element in yeast breads. Use as directed on the box. If bought in bulk, use up to 1 tablespoon per cup of flour. It is usually used in whole grain breads and not in white breads. Don't confuse vital wheat gluten with gluten flour. Bonnie also asked if she could make a bread without salt or sugar. No Bonnie you need a minimal amount of salt. Sugar provides food for the yeast but you can use diastatic malt powder as a substitute. Bonnie asked what proofing yeast means. It is a test to see if the yeast is active, or good. I don't like measuring either, but baking is precise Bonnie, and becsuse the bread machine takes over and has timed cycles, measurements do have to be precise. A bit more yeast won't hurt as you found out...but often a tablespoon or two of liquid can change the whole recipe. Sheila asked for a french bread recipe that would work. We like to make our french bread as a dough and finish it up in the oven. We have heard that Donna German's bread machine book has a good french bread in it. Contact me by Email and I may be able to find it by then. Diane asked about her rolls that came out too hard. Firstly, you never gave us the recipe, but you could need more fat in it. To rise them, try a warm oven (no higher than 200x) for one minute. Then turn off the oven. You also may be baking the rolls at too high a temperature. May I offer some rolls from one of our books Bread Machine Magic. Email me for some more recipes. BUTTERHORN ROLLS 1 1/2 POUND 1 POUND IN () 3/4 cup milk for Welbilt/ (1/2) (add 1 DAK add 2 more tablespoons) tablespoon for Welbilt 1 egg (1) 3 cups all purpose flour (2) 1/3 cup oil (1/2) 1/3 cup sugar (1/4) 1 1/2 to 2 teaspoons Red Star (1 1/2) active dry yeast 1 1/2 tablespoons melted butter (1) or margarine Place all ingredients except melted butter in bread pan, select Dough Setting and press Start. When dough has risen long enough, the machine will beep. Turn off bread machine, remove bread pan, and turn out dough onto a floured countertop or cutting board. Shape dough into a log. For 1 1/2 POUND With a sharp knife, divide dough into 3 pieces, roll each piece into a ball. FOR 1 POUND With a sharp knife, divide dough into 2 pieces;roll each piece into a ball. With a rolling pin, roll each ball, one at a time, into a 9 inch circle. With a sharp knife or a pizza cutter, divide each circle into 8 wedges, as if cutting a pizza. Staring at the wide end roll up each wedge toward the point. Place rolls on an ungreased baking sheet, point side underneath. Cover and let rise in a warm oven 30 to 45 minutes until doubled. (Hint: to warm oven slightly,turn oven on Warm setting for 1 minute then turn it off,) and place covered rolls in oven to rise (Remove sheet from oven to preheat.) Preheat oven to 375 degrees. Brush rolls lightly with melted butter. Bake for 12 to 15 minutes until golden. Remove from oven and serve warm 1 1/2 pound dough yields 24 rolls 1 pound dough yields 16 rolls. >From Bread Machine Magic by Linda Rehberg and Lois Conway, St.Martin's Press. Make these once and they will become favorites. The dough is so easy to handle. They are rich and tender. If you need more information please contact me at LoisCon@AOL.com Thanks you, Lois Conway, co-author with Linda Rehberg of Bread Machine Magic and The Bread Machine Magic Book of Helpful Hints ------------------------------ From: an127@rgfn.epcc.Edu (Marie L. McMahel) Date: Sat, 20 Jan 96 18:26:11 MST Subject: Re: Bread bakers digest list... I would like to ask the list to email me with the pros and cons of the lower priced bread machines, as my funds are very limited. Thanks again! Marie ------------------------------ End of bread-bakers-digest V6 #59 ********************************* bread-bakers-digest Friday, 26 January 1996 Volume 06 : Number 060 Today's Subjects: mail source Zo $250? RE: stuck shaft/paddle... whole wheat bread recipes Re: bread-bakers-digest V6 #58 Converting machine receipe converting to 2 lb. loaves Re: REAL [none] Re: quiet Grain Mill? Re: bread-bakers-digest V6 #59 Question about Pizza Dough Recipes w/ spelt Re: bread-bakers-digest V6 #59 bread flour companies Herbs & Flavor (or Lack Thereof) [none] Bialys -- What's the Secret? Red-grape sourdough starter salt and powdered milk ??sources for bulk rapid-rise yeast RE: bread-bakers-digest V6 #57 RE: Fed up w/my bread machine Breads too sweet ??yeast RE: stuck shaft/paddle... bread digest response used Zojirushi Re: bbd #59 - Zoji problem Soft Pumpernickle bread DeAnn's breadmachine blues Storing flour/freezing dough ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Angela Fox Date: Mon, 22 Jan 1996 15:17:30 -0500 (EST) Subject: mail source Zo $250? Please let me know where I can order the Zo for $250 as mentioned in the latest digest! Thanks, Angie ------------------------------ From: bzwax@tiac.net (Rich & Debbie) Date: Mon, 22 Jan 1996 09:00:54 -0500 Subject: RE: stuck shaft/paddle... Hi, MIchael: Thanks for the info. That all makes sense..I will call and order a new pan (it's not under warantee anymore). Thanks so much, Debbie Bier ------------------------------ From: Matt Goike Date: Fri, 26 Jan 1996 21:41:47 -0800 Subject: whole wheat bread recipes hello fellow alchemists: i'm interested in using ONLY whole-grain flours in my breads. i'm also interested in baking bread that is not as heavy as that which i have been baking. any suggestions/tips, other than adding gluten flour? thanks. matthew ------------------------------ From: Blanche007@aol.com Date: Thu, 25 Jan 1996 11:01:15 -0500 Subject: Re: bread-bakers-digest V6 #58 I am looking for a few home bread bakers who would be willing to try a product I am developing to make sour dough bread. Please e mail me with your snail mail address if you would be willing to make a loaf (machine or manual) and e mail me feedback. Blanche007 ------------------------------ From: Tom Thalmann Date: Fri, 26 Jan 1996 21:41:49 -0800 Subject: Converting machine receipe Since I've belonged to this group I see numerious recipes for bread machines. I don't have a bread machine. Instead I have a Kitchen Aid mixer. What must be done to convert a machine receipe to an old fashion kneed the bread receipe? Thanks ------------------------------ From: Ellen Stier Date: Tue, 23 Jan 1996 12:58:06 -0800 (PST) Subject: converting to 2 lb. loaves Is there an easy conversion to convert 1.5 pound recipes to 2 pound recipes? I enjoy this feature of my new machine, but find I'm mostly making 1.5 pound loaves because those are the recipes I love most from my old machine. Thanks, Ellen ------------------------------ From: ClayCooker@aol.com Date: Mon, 22 Jan 1996 23:42:33 -0500 Subject: Re: REAL Mercy me! Must get new glasses...... I gave you'll the FAX number for the King Arthur Catalog instead of the Telephone number.... Life is getting so complicated? The TOLL FREE PHONE number is: 1-800-827-6836 I'm sorry if I caused anyone to shake their heads in wonder??? Bev in Mn "looking for her glasses"! ------------------------------ From: mosley@artsci.wustl.edu (Kim Mosley) Date: Fri, 26 Jan 1996 21:41:52 -0800 Subject: [none] I'm using an Hitachi almost daily and have found a recipe that works everytime. I want to share it. 1 3/8 cup water 3 cups of flour-usually 2 of ww and 1 of bread flour 2 tbl honey 2 tbl canola oil 1 tea salt 1 tea yeast (the very powerful kind from Sams) even grinding the ww I do it in 5 minutes. Kim Mosley mosley @artsci.wustl.edu ------------------------------ From: Reggie Dwork Date: Sat, 20 Jan 1996 22:16:34 -0800 Subject: Re: quiet Grain Mill? Yvonne - I purchased a Miracle Mill from Irwin Franzel and I think it is very quiet. I have used it about 4 times in 2 weeks and not only is is quiet but it works really well. I have been cracking wheatberries and it certainly does an excellent job. It doesn't heat up or heat the grain as far as I can tell either. Reggie ------------------------------ From: "Andy Hill" Date: Fri, 26 Jan 1996 21:41:50 -0800 Subject: Re: bread-bakers-digest V6 #59 DEHOLD@ccmail.monsanto.com writes: > it seems that no matter what 'flavor' of bread that I make, they all have the > same "taste". I've changed flours but they still all have the similar > "background flavor". Is this normal? > Have you tried fresh flour? Flour (*especially* whole wheat) does go bad. - ---- Andy Hill ahill@boi.hp.com ------------------------------ From: "Butts, Diane" Date: Wed, 24 Jan 96 8:24:54 -0500 Subject: Question about Pizza Dough Hello everyone: I love my new bread machine, especially the pizza dough recipe. Is there a way to make this in advance and store it in the fridge or freezer???? It takes to much time to start after work and if the dough is already made, I could just add the toppings. Thanks. *************************** Diane Butts phone: 202-501-7117 fax: 202-501-6093 e-mail: dbutts@usia.gov **************************** ------------------------------ From: Georgina Hansen Date: Fri, 26 Jan 1996 22:01:27 -0800 Subject: Recipes w/ spelt Hi - I'm new to the bread baker's list so I thought I'd send a question to the list. I have a friend who makes hand made bread (no bread machine) and who is allergic to wheat, so I'm looking for two things: 1) recipes using spelt, and 2) a converstion chart show substitute amounts for spelt and/or oat, rice and potato flour (or any combination of those) instead of wheat flour. Thank you. Georgina Hansen Sacramento, CA ------------------------------ From: sherae@zeta.org.au (Sheri McRae) Date: Sat, 27 Jan 1996 11:14:33 +1100 Subject: Re: bread-bakers-digest V6 #59 DeAnn, are you using enough fat (butter, olive oil, etc.) in your breads? It seems to me that dry bread is more often caused by lack of butter than lack of water. I don't know about your stumpies :-) but perhaps there is a problem with your machine since they used to be stilts and are now stumps. Cheers, Sheri Sheri McRae sherae@zeta.org.au Chickens, like two-edged swords, ofttimes come home to roost. - newspaper editor from Wisconsin ------------------------------ From: Mark.Sklaney@Microserve.com (Mark Sklaney) Date: Wed, 24 Jan 1996 10:43:14 EST Subject: bread flour companies * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * I am looking for some companies that sell flour (via Internet or mail). The only one I know is King Aurthur. Does anyone have any addresses or telephone numbers of any others? Does anyone have any other sources? Please e-mail me or post to the list. Thanks. -Mark- --> mark.sklaney@microserve.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * ------------------------------ From: bj3@ix.netcom.com (BJ) Date: Thu, 25 Jan 1996 06:43:08 -0800 Subject: Herbs & Flavor (or Lack Thereof) Have noticed many times when I use herbs in a bread machine recipe, the final result is less than satisfactory. Yesterday, I was very disappointed when I made a dill bread from Bread Machine Magic - using lots of dill and lots of dried onion. It smelled great and all that, but when I took a taste, there was little, if any, of either the dill or the onion. My herbs/spices are not old - and work fine for regular cooking. What causes this in the bread machine? Has anyone else had this problem? Thanks for any help! Jeanne ------------------------------ From: bzwax@tiac.net (Rich & Debbie) Date: Mon, 22 Jan 1996 15:45:42 -0500 Subject: [none] CHEFLZ@aol.com wrote: I have read of several methods of storing freshly baked bread,& I've had good luck in keeping it in a plastic bag(with air holes in it!) for about 1 1/2 weeks, except for a VERY, VERY moist loaf which I bagged & sealed(not wanting it to mold), & then refrigerated,BUT are there any better, or other ways? Hi, everyone: I don't store my bread as long as 1-1/2 weeks (we eat it too fast!), but usually keep it on the cutting board, cut side down. This is particularly good with a crusty loaf and it stays quite fresh. A more delicate bread wouldn't work as well. Best-Debbie Bier Concord, MA ------------------------------ From: Mark_Judman@colpal.com Date: Thu, 25 Jan 96 14:45:26 EST Subject: Bialys -- What's the Secret? I've made bialys from four different recipes in cookbooks; all looked, tasted, smelled wrong and had the wrong texture. Only one cookbook author (Joan Nathan) had the onion filling right (bread crumbs are mixed in with the onions). (The ones sold in bagel shops are almost universally wrong; they're not just bagels with failed holes and an onion filling.) OK. What's the secret? It appears to be a lost art. I've heard special high gluten flour. All the above were straight doughs. I suspect that the real, genuine item may be made with a sourdough or with a poolish (starter). Anyone know and willing to tell? Mark Judman (Mark_Judman@colpal.com) ------------------------------ From: widera@unr.edu (Debra Widera) Date: Mon, 22 Jan 1996 12:41:22 -0800 (PST) Subject: Red-grape sourdough starter Terry, I tried this starter last year & was really disappointed. I kept it going, though, and tried making bread from it even though it was not "progressing" as it should. The bread was a semi-disaster. But, I didn't throw out the starter; instead, I added a little granulated yeast (maybe 1/4 tsp.) to the starter & treated it the same (feeding, stirring, etc.). After about 2 weeks, it smelled just like wine (honest!) and when I used it 2 days later, I got the most flavorful bread imaginable! I have also made a starter in this *combined* method with onion--really great, esp. if you like onion sourdough! Good luck, Debra widera@unr.edu ------------------------------ From: jguevara@spin.com.mx (Jenka Guevara) Date: Mon, 22 Jan 1996 20:19:54 -0600 Subject: salt and powdered milk Lately I have been ommiting the salt and the powdered milk on my bread, and I really have not noticed any differences. The best bread I have been making is the Honey Oat that was posted some days ago, but I made some changes, I put 1 cup white flour 1 cup whole wheat flour two BIG tablespoons honey 1 cup sour dough starter 2 teaspoons yeast more than one cup water, as needed first by mistake and than seeing it was not needed I skipped salt and milk It comes out great Jenka ********************************* Jenka Guevara American School Foundation Mexico City jguevara@spin.com.mx ------------------------------ From: cmathew@iadfw.net (Craig & Joan Mathew) Date: Sun, 21 Jan 1996 09:09:53 -0600 (CST) Subject: ??sources for bulk rapid-rise yeast Hello all,