Date: Wed, 4 Jan 1995 Bread Digest Wed, 4 Jan 1995 Volume 6 : Issue 1 Today's Topics: Banana Bread Recipes BREAD Digest V5 #50 Bread maker info Swedish Cardamom Bread ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 30 Dec 94 07:14:50 -0800 From: Joel.Ehrlich@salata.com (Joel Ehrlich) Subject: Banana Bread Recipes Message-ID: Responding to: "Tracy L. Carter" I own a Breadman Plus bread machine. I have been looking for a good bananna bread recipe. Does anyone have one to share? Here are several: Banana Nut Wheat Bread (ABM) No. 3212 Yields 1 Loaf 1 Pkg Yeast 1/2 Cup Pecans 3 Cups Whole Wheat Flour 1 1/2 Cups Mashed Banana 1 tsp Salt 1 Cup Warm Water 3 Tbls Maple Syrup 1 tsp Maple Extract All the ingredients except the water should be at room temperature before starting. Add the ingredients to the pan in the order listed. Select "Whole Wheat". Press "Start". Banana Oatmeal Bread (ABM) No. 3296 Yields 1 Loaf 2 tsp Active Dry Yeast Mashed 2 1/2 Cups Bread Flour 2 Tbls Corn Oil 1 Cup Quick Cooking Oats 1 X-Large Egg 4 Tbls Powdered Buttermilk 1/3 Cup Steel-Cut Oats 3 Tbls Brown Sugar 1/4 Cup Water 1 1/2 tsp Salt 1/3 Cup Water, Boiling 1 Cup Banana, Very Ripe, Add the steel-cut oats to the boiling water. Let stand until the mixture reaches room temperature. All other ingredients should be at room temperature before starting. Add the ingredients to the pan in the order listed. Select "Whole Wheat Bread". Press "Start". Peanut Butter & Banana Bread (ABM) No. 3125 Yields 1 Loaf 1 Pkg Yeast 1 LARGE Banana, Sliced 2 1/2 Cups Bread Flour 3/4 Cup Peanut Butter 1/2 Cup Wheat Flour 1 Egg 3 Tbls Gluten 1 Cup Very Warm Water 2 Tbls Brown Sugar, Packed 1 tsp Salt Add the ingredients to the pan in the order listed. Select "White Bread". Press "Start". Banana Raisin Bread (ABM) No. 3352 Yields 1 Loaf 2 tsp Active Dry Yeast Mashed 3 1/2 Cups Bread Flour 1 tsp Salt 1 tsp Cinnamon 2/3 Cup Water 1 Egg 1 Cup Raisins 2 Tbls Corn Oil 1/2 Cup Broken Walnut Meats 1/4 Cup Honey - Flour 1 1/2 Bananas, Peeled & All ingredients should be at room temperature before starting. Add all the ingredients except the raisins, broken nut meats and the final flour in the order listed. Select" White Bread". Press "Start". Roll the raisins in the extra flour. Add the raisins and the broken nut meats to the pan just before the end of the final kneading, when the "beeps" sound. ... I DID read the manual! That's why I'm confused!! ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 3 Jan 95 10:11 PST From: mary_white@sunshine.net (Mary White) Subject: Re: BREAD Digest V5 #50 Message-ID: >(For those who are asking about machines, I like the Breadman a LOT. I >usually make heavy, whole grain, wheat-free breads (with 1/2 cup gluten) >and it works just fine. I only wish it had a PAUSE button during the knead >cycle so I could manually fold nuts or raisins or corrective water/flour >into the dough without restarting from the beginning -- manufacturers are >you listening? Readers do you know of any machine that has such a >feature?) I have a Hitachi, and it has a "Mix Bread" cycle that stops and beeps so you know when to put raisins etc. in. This occurs 4 minutes before the Knead cycle ends and the First Rise begins. I think if you just opened the lid and threw the raisins in at this point without stopping the machine, it would work just as well. I haven't tried this but I've often added extra flour or water at any point without stopping the machine. {{ Mary White }} ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Dec 94 08:50:58 PST From: icdgat@rb.unisys.com Subject: Bread maker info Message-ID: <9412281656.AA28632@mail.unigate1.unisys.com> My wife just got a MISTER LOAF HB-210 breadmaker for her birthday. I was wondering if anyone has any info on this unit good/bad ... It only makes 1 pound .. which I heard isnt enough if you like bread... ;) Thanks for any info Gerald ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Dec 1994 11:47:35 -0500 From: bf138@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Bob Stedfeld) Subject: Swedish Cardamom Bread Message-ID: <199412281647.LAA24398@eeyore.INS.CWRU.Edu> This is a single, 1-1/2 pound bread-machine loaf that is fancier if baked free-form. Mostly, I've baked it for family gatherings; not much at other times. It's deliciously sweet, great for breakfast. The instructions are for a Hitachi B201. Swedish Cardamom Bread ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ 3/8 cup golden raisins 1 to 2 Tbsp dried orange zest (instructions later) 1/2 cup water. Include the orange zest soaking water. I also prefer potato water -- the water left over from boiling potatoes. 3/8 cup milk 1/4 cup brown sugar 1-1/2 Tbsp honey 1 egg 1-1/2 tsp yeast 3 cups bread flour 1/2 tsp salt 1/2 tsp cardamom 1/2 tsp grated orange peel 3 Tbsp butter or margarine 1 egg yolk or whole egg for glaze You'll need the zest (the orange part of the rind) from several oranges. A zester can be used to cut off the zest. Dry the little strings overnight on a large plate. Another method is to slice off the orange part of the rind, trim off as much of the white stuff as possible, then julienne the orange zest. Soak the dried orange zest in 2 ounces hot water for several minutes until soft. Drain the water into a measuring cup and add potato water or tap water. Add the zest at the same time as the flour. Pick over the raisins. Crust: Light Menu Selection: Mix Bread (this bakes the bread in the machine, allowing the raisins to be dropped in when it beeps), or Bread plus Knead and First Rise cycle. If baking a free-form loaf using the Knead and First Rise cycle, add the raisins 4 to 8 minutes minutes before the rise starts (set a timer for 24 to 26 minutes). Or knead them in before shaping the dough. Divide the dough into two parts, 2/3 and 1/3 of the total. Separate each part into 3 pieces (total, 6 pieces). Roll the three larger pieces into 14 to 16-inch long "logs" and the three smaller pieces slightly shorter and much skinnier. Starting in the middle, braid the three parts together, first one end, then the other. Make two braids. Pinch the ends of the braids and tuck under slightly to make sure they don't open up while rising or baking. Place the larger braid on a greased cookie sheet. Then the smaller braid on top of the larger. Cover loosely with plastic wrap and let rise until doubled. After the rise, brush the top with egg yolk for a dark glaze, or a whole egg for a slightly lighter one. Mix the egg or yolk with a bit of water and a shake of salt. Bake for 40 minutes at 350 F. Cover with foil after 15 minutes, even if the crust looks light. Bob Stedfeld (bf138@cleveland.freenet.edu) ------------------------------ End of Bread Digest V6 #1 ****************************** Bread Digest Tue, 10 Jan 1995 Volume 6 : Issue 2 Today's Topics: Coffeecake crust Sugarless bread: what does yeast eat? trillium fruit/nut Wheat free Banana Nut Bread ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 07 Jan 1995 21:20:57 -0400 (EDT) From: CURTISK@NKU.EDU Subject: Coffeecake Message-ID: <01HLKV42X27695O23J@NKU.EDU> I just purchased my new breadmaker. The cookbook that came with it has quite a few good bread recipes, but not one sweetroll-coffeecake recipe-there is a dough setting. There is a recipe for cinnamon rolls and maybe that is supposed to function as the basic sweet roll-coffeecake recipe, but they don't tell me that. Also, they say that this cinnamon roll recipe can be made the night before and baked the next day. Does this mean let it rise the night before and then refrigerate? Won't it continue rising. If anyone has a good all purpose coffeecake recipe I would appreciate it. I have plenty of them for regular baking not using a bread machine, but I don't know if those recipes adapt to a breadmaker. Thank you for your help. any ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 07 Jan 1995 10:00:12 -0400 (EDT) From: CURTISK@NKU.EDU Subject: crust Message-ID: <01HLK7DAEC2A95O0D6@NKU.EDU> My daughter has recently received an Hitachi Breadmaster breadmaker. Apparently it can do everything, even make jam. I think it was in the $200-250 range. The only problem is the crust. She says it is not like regular baker's bread. It is chewy. Sometimes she even takes it off. Is this because of something she is doing or is probably the breadmaker's fault? .t3 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Jan 1995 14:17:27 +1100 From: michelle.campbell@stonebow.otago.ac.nz (Michelle Campbell) Subject: Sugarless bread: what does yeast eat? Message-ID: <199501060113.OAA11194@arwen.otago.ac.nz> I know that in normal bread recipes, some of the sugar is there to be used as yeast food. BUT what does the yeast eat when there is *no* sugar in the dough (eg, the pizza dough my SO makes)? Just curious, Miche ************************************************************************** Michelle Campbell Internet: michelle.campbell@stonebow.otago.ac.nz My opinions are my own, not those of the University of Otago Beer is furrowed. - Nigel Barley, _The Innocent Anthropologist_ ************************************************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 4 Jan 95 10:51 MST From: mormaker@rmii.com Subject: trillium fruit/nut Message-ID: Susan said: I have a Trillium Breadman and it has a "fruit and nut" cycle. This cycle has an additional first rise of 65 minutes. The scanty instructions say to use it for "breads such as banana and apple walnut." I have been successful with a heavily banana/walnut bread (1 1/3 cup banana and 3/4 cup walnuts) using the standard cycle. From a baker's standpoint, what would this initial rise accomplish? I am interested in answers such as "it lets the banana soak into the flour" or "you want a fine crumb for a fruit bread, so you want an extra rise" or "fruit inhibits yeast, so you need the extra rise time." ---------------------------------------- ------------------------------- I have a Trillium, too and I like to use the fruit/nut cycle to bake 100% whole wheat fat-free bread. The longer slower rising not only improves the flavor of the bread, but it also imporves the tenderness. I do sometimes use the ordinary bread cycle to bake whole wheat, but only when I need the bread fast. Micky ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Jan 95 13:27:32 EST From: schapin@mitre.org (Susan Chapin) Subject: Wheat free Banana Nut Bread Message-ID: Here is another Banana bread recipe. It is wheat starch free, but contains gluten, and tastes marvelous. This recipe is for a Breadman machine; adapt as necessary. Be sure to mix in the gluten until very well distributed, as described. I keep all my flours in the refrigerator, and warm the mixed flours in the microwave just before starting the bread. Yeast: 2 1/4 tsp Dry group: (measure into mixing bowl, stir until well blended to evenly distribute the gluten, either let come to room temperature or warm in microwave until slightly warm) 1/2 cup gluten 1 cup kamut flour 3/4 cup + 2 TB brown rice flour 1/4 cup soy flour 1/2 cup amaranth flour 1/4 cup oat bran Wet group: 1 TB water (adjust to compensate for different sizes of egg and banana) 1 egg, lightly beaten 1 TB Sucanat 2 TB canola oil 1 TB molassas 1/2 tsp nutmeg or a bit more 1 1/3 cup very ripe bananas (3 large), mashed 1/2 tsp lecithin (optional) 1 1/4 tsp salt Add 8 minutes before end of knead cycle: 3/4 cup walnuts, pieces and halves, toasted 7 minutes at 275 degrees and cooled a bit -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Susan Chapin, schapin@mitre.org The MITRE Corporation, McLean, VA Phone: 703/883-3610 FAX: 703/883-1397 -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ End of Bread Digest V6 #2 ****************************** Bread Digest Mon, 16 Jan 1995 Volume 6 : Issue 3 Today's Topics: BREAD Digest V6 #2 (3 msgs) Chewey Chrust... Gluten-free recipes Hardening a chewy crust/softening a rock-hard crust Is there any way to get a DAK repaired now? Japanese white bread Sugarless bread: what does yeast eat? Warning: re: "Wheat free Banana Nut Bread" ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 10 Jan 95 22:13:00 -0820 From: helen@mbbs.com (Helen Fleischer) Subject: BREAD Digest V6 #2 Message-ID: <291.9.754.0C343BBB@mbbs.com> Michelle Campbell asked: Br> I know that in normal bread recipes, some of the sugar is there to be Br> used Br> as yeast food. BUT what does the yeast eat when there is *no* sugar in Br> the dough (eg, the pizza dough my SO makes)? It eats the flour and water. The sugar is more or less a stimulating fast food that makes the yeast work faster, that's all. In my own bread machine I use malt powder instead of sugar. The yeast like it even better. ;) If you have access to one, Korean ethnic groceries carry the malt powder for a lot less money than you'd pay to get it from specialty catalogs. That is plain malted barley, ground into a powder or flour, not the stuff you use to make malted milk. ... "I used to be Snow White, but, I drifted." --Mae West * Q-Blue 1.0 * ------------------------------ Date: 11 Jan 95 08:18:38 -0800 From: Joel.Ehrlich@salata.com (Joel Ehrlich) Subject: Re: BREAD Digest V6 #2 Message-ID: BREAD@cykick.infores.com wrote about BREAD Digest V6 #2 to All on 10 Jan 95 08:45:13 saying... Responding to: michelle.campbell@stonebow.otago.ac.nz (Michelle Campbell) I know that in normal bread recipes, some of the sugar is there to be used as yeast food. BUT what does the yeast eat when there is *no* sugar in the dough (eg, the pizza dough my SO makes)? The yeast eats what ever sugars it can find. When it finds no sugar, it starts breaking down the dough to extract the sugars from the flour. Joel ... User error - Replace user and press any key to continue ------------------------------ Date: 11 Jan 95 08:23:34 -0800 From: Joel.Ehrlich@salata.com (Joel Ehrlich) Subject: Re: BREAD Digest V6 #2 Message-ID: Responding to: CURTISK@NKU.EDU I just purchased my new breadmaker. The cookbook that came with it has quite a few good bread recipes, but not one sweetroll-coffeecake recipe-there is a dough setting. There is a recipe for cinnamon rolls and maybe that is supposed to function as the basic sweet roll-coffeecake recipe, but they don't tell me that. Also, they say that this cinnamon roll recipe can be made the night before and baked the next day. Does this mean let it rise the night before and then refrigerate? Won't it continue rising. If anyone has a good all purpose coffeecake recipe I would appreciate it. I have plenty of them for regular baking not using a bread machine, but I don't know if those recipes adapt to a breadmaker. Thank you for your help. any Almost any bread machine can be used to mix and knead the dough for bread, cake, roll and biscuit dough. These machines have a dough cycle. You can use any of your existing recipes to mix and knead the dough. Then simply remove the dough and bake as usual. You have noted that your machine has a dough cycle. Simply use that cycle for the purpose. Joel ... If it tastes good it's fattening - if it don't it ain't. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Jan 1995 07:21:31 -0500 From: aa122@detroit.freenet.org (John F Davis) Subject: Re: Chewey Chrust... Message-ID: <199501111221.HAA29314@detroit.freenet.org> > > My daughter has recently received an Hitachi Breadmaster breadmaker. >Apparently it can do everything, even make jam. I think it was in the >$200-250 range. The only problem is the crust. She says it is not like >regular baker's bread. It is chewy. Sometimes she even takes it off. >Is this because of something she is doing or is probably the breadmaker's >fault? > Probably the breadmaker's fault as Mine does the same thing. By accident I found one thing that might help however. Sugar. Recently I had to make a "Quick Loaf" (Short on time) and as a result I used the "Quick" cycle and increased yeast 50%. I also increased sugar 50% as I use (or used to use) a ratio of 3 sugar to one yeast. Churst was much nicer. Not nearly as chewey or tough as what I had been getting. SO the next time I made a loaf I again used 50% more sugar (however as I was using the regullar cycle and not in a hurry I used the usuall amount of yeast. Again the chrust was better. (P.S. The day I was in a hurry I had to use "gloves" to slice the bread to make my sandwich so I could get to work on time. It was that tight Made it however) So. Try a bit more sugar. I'm thinking about a bit more still but as I'm diabetic I have to be careful about adding too much to the loaf or it will start to show up in me instead of all being eaten by the yeast. -- John F Davis In Delightful Detroit, Mi. aa122@detroit.freenet.org ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Jan 1995 19:21:10 -0400 (EST) From: "Todd W. Greenwood" Subject: Gluten-free recipes Message-ID: I'm allergic to gluten flours and I have a new Breadman breadmaker. I've had some good results and some that are less than acceptable -- soggy dough that doesn't quite rise. I'm looking for any suggestions on successes that others have had. Thanks! --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Todd Greenwood l "Never waste an opportunity, Instructional Systems Technology l to tell someone you love them" (812) 855-7586(w) 857-9714(h) l --Life's Little Instruction Book --------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Jan 1995 11:26:43 -0800 (PST) From: obrien@netcom.com (No parking EXCEPT FOR BOB) Subject: Hardening a chewy crust/softening a rock-hard crust Message-ID: <199501101926.LAA13610@netcom2.netcom.com> > Apparently it can do everything, even make jam. I think it was in the > $200-250 range. The only problem is the crust. She says it is not like > regular baker's bread. It is chewy. Sometimes she even takes it off. > Is this because of something she is doing or is probably the breadmaker's > fault? I've found, with my sourdough experiments, that I often want to take the bread out of the machine before it even finishes the cooling cycle, and set it out, fully exposed, on my countertop for a couple of hours. Other times, it's rock-hard, and I _seal_ it in a big rubbermaid container for a while to partly equalize the moisture content... I'm reminded of a story told about the early days of NASA rocketry - after a string of seven or so faultless launches where everything went "according to plan" it is said that Wherner Von Braun got irate, and shouted at people for being too conservative. His opinion was that without an occasional failure, one is not *learning* as much as one could. Bob O`Bob -- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Jan 95 10:08 EST From: Tamara Shaffer Subject: Is there any way to get a DAK repaired now? Message-ID: <199501161509.AA18866@mozart> My DAK died and I am not having any luck getting it fixed. Has anyone else been through this? The motor is fine, but the computer just quit. I've tried some appliance repair shops but no one was willing to work on it. Of course all my paperwork says to send it to DAK, and they're gone... Any advice? Isn't there some way to get the computer replaced in it? TAMARA ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Jan 1995 17:58:38 -0400 (EST) From: rgreenwo Subject: Japanese white bread Message-ID: Does anyone have a recipe for the bread that's found in Japan...a sweetish white bread? My Japanese friend misses it, so I'd like to surprise her with a loaf. It has a "softo" crust... She says that they don't use all-purpose flour. I didn't have an oven when I lived there, nor a bread machine, so I can only guess that it's a finer flour. (I have a Breadman Plus now.) Thanks! Ruth ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Jan 95 09:11:00 S From: Jack Herrington Subject: Re: Sugarless bread: what does yeast eat? Message-ID: <2F130547@axonet.com.au> I can't give you any technical explanation. But yeast uses the flour to nourish it's development. I have a recipe for italian bread that has a sponge that looks like this; 2 C warm water 2 T (packets) active dry yeast 3 C all-purpose flour So you mix that together and let it sit for 45 minutes. And it rises VERY well. I also have heard that too much sugar is bad for a bread. Sort of a too much of a good thing syndrome. This is why sweet breads have more yeast, so they can compensate for the effect of the sugars. Salt also hurts the yeasts ability to produce. So salt is almost invariably added last. That gives the yeast as much lead time as possible. I'm curious, the recipe for the Italian bread sponge is from Secrets of a Jewish Baker, if I posted the whole recipe would that be illegal? -Jack jack@axonet.com.au ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Jan 95 07:57:47 EST From: schapin@mitre.org (Susan Chapin) Subject: Warning: re: "Wheat free Banana Nut Bread" Message-ID: I received this message in email and thought I should post it to the group: >Susan - > >Just saw your contribution to the Jan. 10 Bread Digest, and >wanted to make a quick comment. > >The banana nut bread recipe you posted looks great! But I would >advise (having 28+ years of experience in wheat protein research) >you to not call it "wheat free," as in the subject header. >Gluten is, of course, the protein of wheat. And a few people who >don't know this, and who have problems with celiac disease, could >be deceived. Also, I doubt seriously that it makes any >difference whether the bread is free of wheat starch or not, >since most cereal starches have similar (though slightly >different) properties. But you should also keep in mind that >vital wheat gluten DOES contain probably 10% of wheat starch, in >addition to the major protein ingredients. So this bread is >neither wheat-free or wheat starch free. > I (this is Susan, the original poster, speaking) get an allergic reaction from even fairly small amounts of (modern) whole or white wheat flour or spelt flour, but not from kamut flour or any of the non-wheat flours. But I don't get a reaction from any of the breads I make with 1/2 cup gluten in them. I know that a lot of people are allergic to gluten, but I did mention that the bread is "not gluten free." I thought this was enough for anyone who is knowledgeable enough about baking to be making their own bread. I am sorry if I confused anyone. - susan (I represent only myself; none of the opinions expressed above are endorsed by my employer.) ------------------------------ End of Bread Digest V6 #3 ****************************** Bread Digest Mon, 23 Jan 1995 Volume 6 : Issue 4 Today's Topics: BREAD Digest V6 #3 gluten free (yeast) bread New Bread Machine! repairing DAK machines sourdough Sourdough experiments Sugarless dough (and posting recipes) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 17 Jan 95 13:33:47 -0400 From: Danielle Driscoll Subject: Re: BREAD Digest V6 #3 Message-ID: <17JAN95.14648244.0250.MUSIC@UNB.CA> Hi there, I was wondering if anyone knew where I could get some of the gr eat recipes that I have seen here , but that do not require a breadmaker since I do not have one. thanks danielle ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Jan 95 10:16:29 CST From: marym@mpd.tandem.com (Mary Matejka) Subject: gluten free (yeast) bread Message-ID: <9501171616.AA06104@europa> I saved this info awhile a go but you might give it a whirl. The book is available from King Arthur Flours as well. Gluten does hold the bread together, and allows stuff to rise. Devin Ben-Hur, in <1992Apr2.215835.4605@quclab.scn.rain.com> suggests using Xanthan Gum as a binder, but puts way too much in (can you spell r-u-b-b-e-r) -- you only need about 1t per cup of flour. That's what my wife uses to bake bread (she's dictating this article to me over my shoulder!) First of all, let me recommend a cookbook to you: The Gluten Free Gourmet: Living Well Without Wheat, by Bette Hagman. It is published by Henry Holt; ISBN 0-8050-1210-9. This cookbooks has all kinds of baking recipes, including mutliple pizza dough recipes. Its main trick is to use a mixture of non-gluten flours as a substitute for regular flour -- this mixture is 2 parts white rice flour, 2/3 part potato starch, 1/3 part tapioca flour. You can use this mixture almost as a 1 for 1 substitute in regular recipes for quick breads (e.g., corn bread, muffins). You can also use it in normal breads, but other adjustments are required -- see the book for details. Here's - quick pizza dough that doesn't even use the mixture. My wife has used this and thinks it's pretty good. You take 1/4c of milk, and 2 lg. eggs and beat them together. Add 1/3c cornstarch, 2/3c rice flour, 1/4t xanthan gum (optional, see note), 1t salt, 1/4c melted shortening. Beat well. Spread this stuff on a pizza pan. Top it, and bake in a preheated 400oF oven for 25 minutes. Allegedly serves 6, although if you have pizza-starved, GF people, will probably serve about 3. Note: If you don't have a local source for xanthan gum, you can order it from Ener-G Foods, in Seattle, 800/331-5222. In WA State 800/325-9788. This is also a source for Methylcellulose and prepackaged GF stuff. Corn breads with sufficient milk and eggs, using the GF flour mix mentioned above in place of wheat flour, will usually hold together OK. You can also use the cornbread recipe from the side of the Albers cornmeal box, substituting GF flour mix or rice flour for the wheat flour (and soymilk for the milk, if need be). It holds together with the GF flour mix. Lastly, if your friend is truly gluten free for a medical reason (such as Celiac Sprue), she should contact the Celiac Society. The number is in Bette Hagmans book ... hold on whilst we look it up ... there, got it ... Gluten Intolerance Group of North America -- 206/325-6980; Celiac Sprue Association of the US: 402/558-0600. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Jan 95 16:55:43 EST From: kla@karen.webo.dg.com (Karen Plaskon) Subject: New Bread Machine! Message-ID: <9501162155.AA21760@karen.webo.dg.com> Hi all. I've been using a small Welbilt machine quite happily for about 2 1/2-3 years now. Until I just got a LARGE Hitachi. How cool! I made 4 loaves of bread over the weekend, trying to adapt some of my favorites to the new, bigger size. I love it! Here are some of the things I found great: - Much larger size (can make extra large loaves that take 4 cups of flour. My other machine only handled 2) - Better crust - crispier, not so soggy - Much quieter - was able to run it overnite with weekend guests in an ajoining room - Easier to clean. The Welbilt had a hole in the bottom where the dough hook went, so some "goop" always leaked out the bottom. Also, I can take the bowl out and fill it anywhere, then put it back in the machine. This will also make it easier to clean when I make dough. - Window in the top to see what's cooking without opening it (and getting my glasses all steamed up!) - Jam maker (I haven't tried this yet, but it looks yummy. Has anyone used this feature of their machines?) I can't wait to get home and make some more! -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Karen L. Plaskon (karen_plaskon@dg.com) Data General Corp., Enterprise Solutions Engineering ----------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Jan 95 15:17:02 EST From: jane@apollo.hp.com Subject: repairing DAK machines > My DAK died and I am not having any luck getting it fixed. Has > anyone else been through this? The motor is fine, but the computer > just quit. I've tried some appliance repair shops but no one was > willing to work on it. Of course all my paperwork says to send it > to DAK, and they're gone... I have just the opposite problem: my motor is bad, but the computer is fine (as far as I know). Sounds like our DAKs maybe should get together :-). My solution was to buy a new Panasonic. I personally question whether it's worth any dollars to repair DAKs (but if you want my old DAK, let me know...) Jane --- ************************ * Jane Marcus * * jane@apollo.hp.com * ************************ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Jan 95 17:50:11 EST From: SELWYN01 Subject: sourdough Message-ID: <16JAN95.19263418.0025.MUSIC@MUSICM.MCGILL.CA> Hi, folks. Let's hope this message gets through to someone! I would like to find out more about sourdough recipes, how to keep it from going too far, etc.etc. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Jan 1995 13:05:42 -0800 (PST) From: obrien@netcom.com (No parking EXCEPT FOR BOB) Subject: Sourdough experiments Message-ID: <199501232105.NAA26670@netcom9.netcom.com> I was asked, via email, for a little more about my experimenting with sourdough in my machine. Particularly, if I'd had good results without adding yeast. (considered "cheating" by many s`dough afficianados) I'm no expert, some of my friends won't even touch the stuff, but I certainly don't mind sharing my techniques - especially with folks likely to have constructive criticism! My correspondent suggested a starter made from simply flour and potato water - something I may try someday. I've always avoided starter recipies with dairy products (like the DAK recipe) but there must be thousands of possible starters, many of which depend on the particular microorganisms in your neighborhood. I recommend the newsgroup red.food.sourdough for starter hints, and in general, to anyone interested in sourdough. My present starters came from a "Goldrush" package originally, purchased at a cooking store on a mall. Since I want to bake in my machine, rather than have to watch the oven, I usually use added yeast. The best results I've had _without_ adding yeast have required the dough to rise for 24 hours or so. I'll put everything in the machine through the dough cycle, and when that completes, I put the dough in a glass bowl, with a damp towel over the top, in the oven with the light on to warm it. The next day, I start the machine, empty (unless I'm doing more dough). When the machine cycles past the "punch down" just before baking starts, I add the already-risen dough as carefully as I can. Alternatively, I was in a hurry once, and when the dough cycle finished, I removed the paddle and set the machine's timer for about 24 hours. Then it went through all the mixing steps (ineffectually) and baked. That wan't the best loaf, the bubbles were too big, but it was nice and sour. Even using added yeast, I like to feed half of the flour to the (already awakened) starter, with just enough water, several hours before dropping it all into the machine. Here's as close as I have to a recipe (measurements are decimal to avoid online ambiguity only, I _do_not_ measure very carefully) I refrigerate my starter in a wide-mouth mason jar (with one tiny hole punched in the lid), and keep it at about 0.75 to 1 cup in size. Stir, then warm starter into activity. (my "warmer" is the oven with the light on) feed 0.5 cup flour and enough water to bring back to batter consistency. (leave in warmer) When fully active, return starter amount to `fridge. (for me, this can be two to ten hours) The rest now goes in (glass) mixing bowl. Immediately add half the flour (1.25 c "Better for Bread" flour) and some water - enough to a thin dough texture - almost, but not, to a batter. Cover bowl with slightly damp towel, leave in warmer. (sometimes I turn out the light) Wait at least until "sponge" stage - bubbles are visible in the glass (time varies a LOT, this can be 2 to 24 hours, and the whole thing can probably fail at this point, so experience which I cannot relate is probably important in preparing and watching this stage) Throw in machine with: 1.25 cups more flour 0.75 tsp salt 1.5 to 2 tsp sugar water - maybe 0.25 cup to start, then add by teaspoon during the first mixing cycle to achieve an even dough that's not too tough for the motor. Follow subterfuge described above to get 24-hour rise time *without* having the machine manipulate dough just before baking. My machine is a DAK, first model. I use the 'french" setting and turn the browing control all the way up. (those hints, and in fact the above "recipe," evolved from a DAK recipe book) Alternatively, at the flour/salt/sugar stage, I put yeast in the machine (before anything else) and I use a little less than the amount in a packet (I buy it in a small brown jar). Then I can just set the automatic cycle and ignore it until done. I have yet to manage really good texture without yeast. The closest I've come took even more work, kneading the dough slightly, somewhere in the middle of the 24 hour rise time. Bob O`Bob obrien@netcom.com -- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Jan 1995 14:50:29 +1300 From: michelle.campbell@stonebow.otago.ac.nz (Michelle Campbell) Subject: Sugarless dough (and posting recipes) Message-ID: <199501170150.OAA11614@arwen.otago.ac.nz> Thanks to everyone who answered my question about sugarless dough. > >I'm curious, the recipe for the Italian bread sponge is from Secrets of >a Jewish Baker, if I posted the whole recipe would that be illegal? Consensus on this list seems to be that it's OK if you credit the originator of the recipe. [And we don't have too many at one time -- Jim] Please post it, it sounds good (but remember the credits!) Cheers, Miche ************************************************************************** Michelle Campbell Internet: michelle.campbell@stonebow.otago.ac.nz My opinions are my own, not those of the University of Otago Beer is furrowed. - Nigel Barley, _The Innocent Anthropologist_ ************************************************************************** ------------------------------ End of Bread Digest V6 #4 ****************************** Bread Digest Mon, 30 Jan 1995 Volume 6 : Issue 5 Today's Topics: a question la ciabata or slipper bread R: Filled Breads (2) Storage of bread and flour time delay for dough cycle only? Where's the Gluten?? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 24 Jan 1995 08:36:24 +0100 From: surban@skidmore.EDU Subject: a question Message-ID: <9501241331.AB01167@scott.skidmore.edu> The breadmaker I purchased for Christmas for my parents is a big success. They use it every day. The only complaint they have is that the bread is dry. Does anyone out there know what they can add to moisten it. They stick to the directions faithfully and don't want to upset the apple cart, but should they add more water, or what? Any help would be appreciated. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Jan 1995 16:19:56 +0100 (WET) From: Bogdan Sovinc Subject: la ciabata or slipper bread Message-ID: <950130161956.33e@ctklj.ctk.si> Please can anybody help to find a recipe for la ciabata or slipper bread. This is Italian bread made of wheat flour. I'm interested to find the recipe, ingredients, and procedure for home baking. Bogdan Sovinc E-mail: sovinc@ctklj.ctk.si Thank you in advance! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Jan 1995 13:58:52 -0500 From: RobieLynn@aol.com Subject: R: Filled Breads (2) Message-ID: <950125135849_6446310@aol.com> * Exported from MasterCook II * Farm Rolled Cheese Bread Recipe By : Hawthorne Valley Farms, Ghent, New York Serving Size : 1 Preparation Time :0:00 Categories : Cheese Breads, Filled Amount Measure Ingredient -- Preparation Method -------- ------------ -------------------------------- 1 Cup Warm Water 1 Teaspoon Sugar 1 Package Active Baker's Yeast 2 1/2 Cups All-Purpose Flour 1/2 Cup Whole Wheat Flour 2 Tablespoons Oil 1/2 Teaspoon Salt 4 Ounces Emmenthaler Or Gruyere Cheese -- grated, at room -- temperature 4 Ounces Cream Cheese -- room temperature 2 Tablespoons Chives -- minced 1/2 Teaspoon Caraway Seeds Cornmeal 1 Egg -- beaten Mix 1/ cup water, the sugar, and the yeast in a small bowl. Let rest for 10 minutes. In a food processor or by hand, mix the yeast mixture, flours, oil, salt and the remaining 3/4 cup water. Knead for 10 minutes or until elastic. Place in an oiled bowl, cover and let rise in a draft-free area until doubled in bulk, 1 to 2 hours. Mix the cheeses with the chives and caraway seeds. On a floured surface roll out the dough to a rectangle measuring approximately 10-by-18 inches. Spread filling evenly over the surface of the dough, leaving a half-inch edge all around. Roll up rectangle, starting with a short-side. Pinch the ends and the seam to seal. Place the bread roll, seam-side down, on a baking sheet sprinkled with cornmeal. Let the bread rise for 45 to 60 minutes. Preheat the oven to 350 degrees. Cut a slit 1/8-inch wide down the middle, along tbe top of the loaf. Brush with beaten egg. Bake for 55 to 60 minutes in the preheated oven. Cool before slicing. Makes 1 loaf. - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - * Exported from MasterCook II * Bread Stuffed W/ Green, Cheese, Peppers, And Olives Recipe By : Susie Jacobs - Recipes from a Greek Island Serving Size : 8 Preparation Time :0:00 Categories : Breads, Filled Amount Measure Ingredient -- Preparation Method -------- ------------ -------------------------------- 4 Packages Dry Yeast 1/2 Teaspoon Sugar 3 1/2 Cups Semolina Flour -- may take an Or; -- additional 1 cup 6 Cups Unbleached Bread Flour -- may take an -- additional 1/2 cup, -- plus extra for -- for rolling. 1 1/4 Cups Whole Wheat Flour 1 1/4 Cups Mixed-Grain Flour; (A Mixture Of Barely, Rye, And Oats) 2 Teaspoons Salt 1/4 Cup Fruity Olive Oil 1/4 Cup Grape Must Syrup Or Molasses* Filling: 1 Pound Onions -- to yield 1 cups -- cooked onions 3 Tablespoons Olive Oil 1 Teaspoon Sugar 1 1/4 Pounds Curly Endive -- or any greens of -- your choice, steamed -- drained and chopped 1 Cup Roasted Sweet Peppers* -- from 1 1/4 lb sweet -- peppers 1/2 Pound Greek Olives -- pitted and roughly -- chopped 1 Cup Feta Cheese 3 Cloves Garlic 1/4 Cup Flat Leaf Parsley -- finely chopped 1/4 Cup Fresh Dill -- choppped 2 Tablespoons Fresh Mint -- finely chopped 1 Teaspoon Rice Or Cracked Wheat -- optional To make the bread dough: Put the dry yeast in a cup with 1/2 cup hot water (just above body temperature, to your finger). Stir in sugar and leave in a warm undisturbed place to prove. Mix the semolina flour, or unbleached bread flour with the whole wheat and mixed-grain flours, adding the salt. Pour onto a work surface, making a hollow in the center. When the yeast is frothy and doubled in bulk, pour it into the center, with the olive oil, molasses, and 1 cup warm water. Mix together to make a cohesive dough, adding more water as needed. Knead the dough, keeping the work surface, the hands and the dough floured, until the dough is velvety and elastic - about 25 minutes. Cover with a damp cloth and leave to rise until almost double in bulk - about an hour. Make the filling, so that it can cool before use. Sauti the chopped onion in the olive oil, adding little splashes of water if they stick. When burnished gold, sprinkle the onions with the sugar and cook until they caramelize. Assemble the greens and roast peppers, chopping them roughly. Drain all the cooked vegetables very thoroughly. If necessary rinse the olives. Make herbed cheese by mixing the feta with the garlic, parsley, dill, and mint. When the dough has risen, punch it down and divide into two slightly unequal pieces. Pat or roll each piece into a circle about 3/4-inch thick. Place the larger circle on an oiled or non-stick baking sheet. Cover both halves and leave to rise in a warm place for about 30 minutes If the filling ingredients are moist, sprinkle the dough laid out on the baking sheet with rice or cracked wheat. Layer the fillings, in order of preference, on the dough, leaving a border of 2-21/2 inches all around the edge. Lay the second circle gently over the filling. Moisten the outer edges of the bottom and roll them around and over the edges of the top. Press to seal. Cut a few diagonal slits in the top for escaping steam and leave the dough to rise until almost doubled in bulk - about 1 hour. Bake in an oven preheated to 350 degrees for 1 hours, or until there is a hollow sound when the hot loaf is tapped on the bottom. - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - NOTES : *To roast peppers: In a large shallow roasting pan, spread the pepper slices so they are not more than 3-4 deep. Sprinkle with 1 teaspoon sugar, 4-6 tablespoons fruity olive oil, and salt and pepper to taste, and mix these in. In an oven preheated to 375 degrees, roast them uncovered for 1 or more hours until the edges of some of some turn brown and crunchy. After the first 30 minutes, stir frequently so they do not burn or stick to the bottom. Don't be surprised by the loss of volume. *Grape must syrup is a honey-like syrup, and is used as a sweeFrom owner-br was before the introduction of sugar. This is called "petimezi" in Greek and "vino cotto" in Italian and can be found in the respective groceries. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Jan 1995 8:20:58 -0600 (CST) From: JENNIFER GRIFFIN/CARL HAYWOOD Subject: Storage of bread and flour Message-ID: <950124082058.6d3b@dsm1.dsmnet.com> I have questions about storing bread and flour. Currently I store baked bread in aplastic bag, after it has cooled. But I notice that this makes the crispy crust go away and leaves us with just a chewy crust. I don't like this, and would prefer a way to keep the bread from getting stale and crispy, but keep the crust nice and crispy. About flour: I know some flour one should keep in the fridge. I keep my whole wheat flour and rye flour there. How about other kinds of flour, like semolina flour. What criteria should I use in deciding whether to keep the flour in the fridge or not. BTW, I live in Iowa, where it is quite dry for a good part of the year, but can be humid in the summer. In the summer we seem to keep *everything* in the fridge. :) Thanks, Jen Griffin losteye@dsmnet.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Jan 95 15:31 EST From: Ed Berlin Subject: time delay for dough cycle only? With my Sanyo, I can have just a dough cycle without going into a complete baking cycle, but cannot do this on a time-delay. Is there any machine that permits programming a dough-cycle on time-delay? Ed ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Jan 1995 20:14:16 -0600 (CST) From: Michael Anderson Subject: Where's the Gluten?? Message-ID: I have looked all over and cannot find gluten. When i ask people always say "what the hell is gluten?" or "do you mean Elmer's Gluten?" What kind of places carry it and in what form does it come? Thanks loads. Michael Anderson Assistant Professor of Music Dana College, Blair Ne 68008 The Trumpet Players' International Network Administrator 402-426-7314 - office 402-426-9063 - home ------------------------------ End of Bread Digest V6 #5 ****************************** Bread Digest Tue, 7 Feb 1995 Volume 6 : Issue 6 Today's Topics: BREAD Digest V6 #5 (2 msgs) bread moisture, bread storage, gluten Function of sugar and salt Garlic in dough Gluten... Greetings and a Stupid Question. Happy Oster owner Sunken Tops Timer & Dough Cycle, Stuck Blade Where's the gluten? (2 msgs) Where to find gluten whole wheat ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 30 Jan 1995 17:21:36 -0500 From: Michael Hirsch Subject: Re: BREAD Digest V6 #5 Message-ID: <199501302221.RAA01178@constance.mathcs.emory.edu> manderson> I have looked all over and cannot find gluten. When i ask manderson> people always say "what the hell is gluten?" or "do you manderson> mean Elmer's Gluten?" manderson> What kind of places carry it and in what form does it come? Try health food stores--the real kind, not the mega-vitamin/massbooster protein drink kind. Sometimes called "vital gluten" or "vital wheat gluten" or just plain "wheat gluten" or even "gluten flour". It looks like a very fine unbleached flour. Good luck, -- Michael Hirsch Work: (404) 727-7940 Emory University, Atlanta, GA 30322 FAX: (404) 727-5611 Internet: hirsch@mathcs.emory.edu BITNET: hirsch@emory.bitnet UUCP: {rutgers,gatech}!emory!hirsch http://www.mathcs.emory.edu/~hirsch/ Public key for encrypted mail available upon request. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Jan 1995 21:04:00 -0500 From: ChezDarcy@aol.com Subject: Re: BREAD Digest V6 #5 Message-ID: <950131205834_9515320@aol.com> In response to your search for gluten... Check out a natural foods store or coop.... they usually sell it in bulk or 1 1b. boxes... the boxes are a lot.. so share generously with friends and let someone else buy it next. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Jan 95 08:11:52 EST From: schapin@mitre.org (Susan Chapin) Subject: Re: bread moisture, bread storage, gluten Message-ID: > >The breadmaker I purchased for Christmas for my parents is a big success. >They use it every day. The only complaint they have is that the bread is >dry. Does anyone out there know what they can add to moisten it. They >stick to the directions faithfully and don't want to upset the apple cart, >but should they add more water, or what? Any help would be appreciated. > Try adding oil (canola oil is good), to 2 TB. Try replacing 1/4 cup flour with uncooked rolled oats. They don't need to stick so closely to the directions -- they may have a poor loaf or two as they experiment, but if they are baking every day they can afford a failure once in a while. The critical factor is the flour/liquid ratio -- if it kneads correctly (and they should know by now what correct kneading looks like) it will be OK. If it is too liquid (doesn't form a ball) add flour one TB at a time. If it is too dry (spins around without folding) add liquid 1 TB at a time. It is OK to use a rubber spatula to help mix in the added stuff (yes, it is OK to lift the lid during kneading). > > I have questions about storing bread and flour. Currently I >store baked bread in aplastic bag, after it has cooled. But I notice that >this makes the crispy crust go away and leaves us with just a chewy >crust. I don't like this, and would prefer a way to keep the bread from >getting stale and crispy, but keep the crust nice and crispy. I am using a breadbox (two 5-sided cubes of clear acrylic that slide into each other) that has a three holes on each end. Nothing will keep the crust truly crispy, but this box keeps it a lot better than does a plastic bag, which I used to use. I also remember that we used to freshen French bread by putting it into a paper bag, moistening the bag by sprinkling a little water on it, and heating it in the oven for a while (a short while that did not cause the bag to catch fire!) > About flour: I know some flour one should keep in the fridge. I >keep my whole wheat flour and rye flour there. How about other kinds of >flour, like semolina flour. What criteria should I use in deciding whether >to keep the flour in the fridge or not. Keep all whole grain flours in the fridge. I keep all my flour in the fridge. When I prepare a bread, I put the dry ingredients excluding the yeast in a plastic mixing bowl, stir to blend, and heat in the microwave for a short time on half power, until the flour is slightly warm. The yeasties love the warm flour, and I don't have to wait for the refrigerated flour to come to room temperature. > >I have looked all over and cannot find gluten. When i ask people always >say "what the hell is gluten?" or "do you mean Elmer's Gluten?" > >What kind of places carry it and in what form does it come? Try health food stores. I find "vital wheat gluten" by two or three manufacturers in several of the health food stores in Northern Virginia. - susan (schapin@mitre.org) (I represent only myself; none of the opinions expressed above are endorsed by my employer.) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Jan 1995 16:55:00 -0500 (EST) From: Bill Thomas Subject: Function of sugar and salt Message-ID: I can't remember which of these has which effect on yeast. Is it sugar that enhances the yeast, and the dough raising, effect and salt that suppresses it? This would seem logical, though I'm no chemist, because sugar would seem to "feed" the yeast while salt would "kill" it. Along these lines, if a bread recipe has salt but no sugar, would cutting the salt slightly, while adding sugar, cause the bread to raise more? ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 4 Feb 1995 14:56:22 -0500 (EST) From: Brian Hostetler Subject: Garlic in dough I made pizza dough the other day and put fresh garlic in it (pressed). The dough didn't rise and had a crumbly texture. Has anyone successfully added garlic to their dough? -- Brian This message sent to you at bulk rate. http://sparrow.bio.indiana.edu/brian/me brianh@silver.ucs.indiana.edu ------------------------------ Date: 31 Jan 95 06:50:48 -0800 From: Joel.Ehrlich@salata.com (Joel Ehrlich) Subject: Gluten... Message-ID: Responding to: Michael Anderson MA> I have looked all over and cannot find gluten. When i ask people MA> always say "what the hell is gluten?" or "do you mean Elmer's Gluten?" MA> What kind of places carry it and in what form does it come? By and large you should be able to find "Vital Wheat Gluten" anyplace which sells bread flour. I find it at $upermarkets, Bakery Discount Outlets and Health Food Stores (the last being the most expensive). It typically is sold in one and two pound bags. Joel ... On second thought, maybe I should have read the instructions first... ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 02 Feb 95 13:36:36 EST From: gunterman@ccmailpc.ctron.com Subject: Greetings and a Stupid Question. Message-ID: <9501027917.AA791760997@ccmailpc.ctron.com> hello..... Just found the "Digest" address for this list and signed on. Have been a Bread Machine (DAK Turbo Baker 4) owner for 3 years now. Just wish I found this list sooner. Can somebody tell me if there is a "real time" version of the list or is it in "digest" form only? [The digest is only a digest, mailed Mondays or Tuesdays. Jim] Thanks! Recipies to be posted soon! JaG John A. Gunterman Macintosh Specialist Technical Support Group Cabletron Systems Inc. gunterman@ctron.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Jan 1995 19:29:21 -0500 (EST) From: Elizabeth Schwartz Subject: Happy Oster owner Message-ID: <199502010029.AA27943@eris.cs.umb.edu> Someone mentionned putting together a breadmaker FAQ: We were given an Oster last summer and make 2-3 loaves a week of 100% whole wheat bread (with some experiments with rye, buckwheat, and cheese breads.) It's been a great machine! It's got a timer, dough cycle, raisin beep, all the features. It makes big, square loaves that are crust on 5 sides and nicely rounded on top. It seems to have some "intelligence" as it makes almost perfect loaves even when we are careless with the ingredients (ok, except for the time we forgot to put ANY salt in...) A few weeks ago, it started making this horrible squealing noise when mixing the flour. Not every time, but when it happened it was really awful. I called Sunbeam/Oster tech support. It took several phone calls to get through, but when I did, the rep said "Hmm, we've heard of a few that did that" and sent us a new breadmaker! We also got a shipping label to send the old one back UPS. I am very impressed that they were willing to send us the new one before getting the old one back. That's customer service! Our new machine just made its first loaf of bread and it was equally, uniformly good. We're very happy with this machine. I get the impression that some of the smaller, cheaper machines are'nt really strong enough to handle 100% whole wheat bread. Betsy (happy customer, no other relation) PS We used two of the prepackaged mixes to test the machine when we first got it, and we ended up taking them to the park to feed to the birds. We'd been eating really good whole wheat bread that we get from the supermarkets and it was a real shock eating that artificial white stuff. I don't know why anyone with a bread machine would use a mix full of chemicals with it! PPS we also bought a bread tray with deep grooves to catch the bread crumbs and it made a huge difference in our kitchen. I reccomend one to anyone with a breadmaker or who wants to buy a present for a bread-making friend!) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Jan 1995 00:15:32 -0600 (CST) From: Betty Kuenzel Subject: Sunken Tops Message-ID: I got a Toastmaster bread machine which I really like (makes 1-1/2 pound loaves, is quiet, etc.) - but I'm having a terrible time with sunken loaves. I watch the moisture content while the dough is being kneaded, so I don't think it's too much moisture - which leaves me with the conclusion that it's too much yeast. (the loaves rise very nicely and then sink during the baking time) I'm using Red Star active dry yeast (not the rapid rise) - and generally make recipes out of Donna German's books. It's becoming quite expensive to keep flopping all these loaves of bread, since I use quite a lot of the different recipes using all the "fun" ingredients - various whole grains, cereals, fruits, nuts, etc. Has anyone else had to cut the yeast back quite drastically? I have one cookbook (Better Homes & Gardens Bread Machine Bounty) in which almost all the recipes call for 1 t. of yeast regardless of whether making a 1 lb. or a 1-1/2 lb. loaf. On the other hand, the recipe book that came with my machine has recipes that call for 2 or more teaspoons - I'm sure reluctant to try that! Thanks for your comments! betty k. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Jan 1995 09:24:05 +0500 From: byates@Newbridge.COM (Barbara Yates) Subject: Timer & Dough Cycle, Stuck Blade Message-ID: <9501311424.AA00640@zonker.newbridge> Ed Berlin asked: "Is there any machine that permits programming a dough-cycle on time-delay?" I got a Zojirushi (the big one with the Home Made Menu feature) for Christmas and the instruction book says you cannot program Dough and use the timer. I was wondering if anyone has accomplished that feat using the Home Made Menu? I have another question for anyone with a Zo. The pamphlet that came with it from King Arthur Flour (I mail-ordered the machine since I can't buy a Zo in Canada) said the most common complaint about the Zo is the kneading blade being stuck in the pan after you bake your bread. They suggest oiling the shaft before placing the blade on it. To unstick the blade you need to soak the pan with warm water in it for 30 minutes. Well, oiling the inside of the blade hole and oiling the shaft has not helped me. EVERY loaf (about 12 different recipes so far) has had the blade stuck in the bread pan, resulting in a torn loaf bottom (not too bad). The only thing the oiling seems to help is freeing the stuck blade from the shaft after brief soaking in warm water. The story I read about the blade remaining in a baked loaf seems impossible for my machine. Is my experience with the *always* stuck blade shared by others? Any ideas for remedying it? I follow the manufacturers guidance of always putting in the yeast last. But I tried yeast first, water last, and it made no difference for the blade sticking. Anybody solved this problem? Thanks. BTW, I *love* my bread machine, even with its quirk. :-) Barbara ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Jan 1995 16:51:43 -0500 (EST) From: Bill Thomas Subject: Re: Where's the gluten? Message-ID: I looked all over Pittsburgh to find "gluten" and failed. I did find some stuff called "bread machine boost," which is essentially gluten. It was kind of expensive -- about $7 for a small bag, from which you use a few teaspoons per loaf. The other thing I found was "high-gluten" flour, though how this differs from regular bread flour, I don't know. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Jan 1995 09:32:23 +0500 From: byates@Newbridge.COM (Barbara Yates) Subject: Re: Where's the gluten? Message-ID: <9501311432.AA00647@zonker.newbridge> I bought gluten from a bulk bin in the local health food store. It was labelled "gluten flour". I tried it in one recipe so far that someone posted to the fat free mailing list. It was a whole wheat cinnamon raisin loaf and it called for 3 tablespoons of gluten. Although this seemed like a huge amount of gluten, I used that amount and it came out great. I was worried that the bread would be too dry or that I'd never get my stuck blade out of the bread pan (see another posting re: this problem), so I added 1 tablespoon of vegetable oil to the recipe, which called for no fat at all. Good luck finding gluten. If you really strike out you should just mail order it from one of the baking mail order companies, such as King Arthur Flour. Get their toll-free number from the operator. Their catalog is great fun to read. Barbara ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Jan 1995 18:45:57 -0800 (PST) From: Anne Elizabeth Callery Subject: Where to find gluten Message-ID: In response to the person who wanted to know where to find gluten, I buy it at the local health food store. Health food or natural food stores are a great place to find "alternative" baking supplies, e.g. flours and sweeteners. Anne >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Anne Callery Palo Alto CA USA callery@leland.stanford.edu <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 Feb 95 23:34 MST From: mormaker@rmii.com Subject: whole wheat Message-ID: Hi, all. I got my Trillium Breadman machine in November and have been fairly happy with it. I bake chiefly 100% whole wheat bread and, although the bread tastes good, it doesn't usually rise as high as I would like it. Well, last night I tried King Arthur's white wheat flour and it made the most wonderful loaf of whole wheat bread. It tasted great, rose very well, and had a light, but not foamy testure. I highly recommend it. I do not work for, or have any interest in King Arthur flour other than that of a satisfied customer. Micky ------------------------------ End of Bread Digest V6 #6 ****************************** Bread Digest Tue, 14 Feb 1995 Volume 6 : Issue 7 Today's Topics: BREAD Digest V6 #6 (2 msgs) Bread Machines Crispy Crust Dough Cycle Garlic in dough High Gluten Flour No Subject Older Panasonic Rye Bread Recipe Request Stuck blade (2 msgs) Sunken Loaves Timed dough cycle Timer & Dough Cycle, Stuck Blade ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 7 Feb 95 15:56:04 CST From: toma@romulus.cray.com (Thomas Arneberg {x66642 CF/DEV}) Subject: Re: BREAD Digest V6 #6 Message-ID: <9502072156.AA02308@romulus.cray.com> > Date: Tue, 31 Jan 1995 09:24:05 +0500 > From: byates@Newbridge.COM (Barbara Yates) > Subject: Timer & Dough Cycle, Stuck Blade > Message-ID: <9501311424.AA00640@zonker.newbridge> > > Ed Berlin asked: > "Is there any machine that permits programming a dough-cycle on > time-delay?" > > I got a Zojirushi (the big one with the Home Made Menu feature) for > Christmas and the instruction book says you cannot program Dough and > use the timer. I was wondering if anyone has accomplished that feat > using the Home Made Menu? I'd be interested to know the same thing. But I use a workaround -- I simply select the normal bread setting, and time it so that the dough is done when I want it. For example, if I want dough to be finished kneading and rising when I get home at 5:00 p.m., I can add the ingredients in the morning, select regular bread, and set the time of completion for 7:30 or so. Thus the machine will knead from 3:30-4:00, and the dough will rise from 4-5:00. I can then take it out and reset the machine when I get home (before it starts baking). > most common complaint about the Zo > is the kneading blade being stuck in the pan after you bake your bread. > They suggest oiling the shaft before placing the blade on it. To I haven't had much luck getting the blade out on my Zoji, either. Out of my 388 loaves, I've probably taken the blade out a couple dozen times. Sometimes I'll try slipping a string underneath it and pulling up, but it's still hard. I'm not convinced there's a downside of not removing the kneading blade each time, though...can anyone elaborate on why this is crucial? - Tom A. --------------------------------------------+---------------------------- ;-) I'd rather be ____ Thomas R. Arneberg | Internet: toma@cray.com :-) singing in a |____| MPP IC Design Group | http://www.mcs.com/~toma :-) Barbershop _| _| Cray Research, Inc. | MADD Member (Mathematicians :-) Quartet! (_) (_) Chippewa Falls, Wisc.| Against Drunk Deriving) --------------------------------------------+---------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: 08 Feb 95 09:15:06 -0800 From: Joel.Ehrlich@salata.com (Joel Ehrlich) Subject: Re: BREAD Digest V6 #6 Message-ID: <68a_9502090700@salata.com> Responding to: Brian Hostetler BR> I made pizza dough the other day and put fresh garlic in it (pressed). BR> The dough didn't rise and had a crumbly texture. Has anyone BR> successfully added garlic to their dough? I have been working in response to a challenge to mage garlic bread in a bread machine. While I still have a long way to go, I can tell you that garlic will flatten a loaf at least as well as too much salt. I have found that I must use more yeast than without the garlic, that the addition of a little citric acid works wonders and that I must add gluten if I want a nice loft to the loaf of bread. I have not yet worked out all the ramifications and haven't yet tried to apply any of these lessons to pizza dough. However, I would stay away from minced garlic, powdered garlic and garlic oil. So far, I have had my best success using roasted garlic mashed and combined with the liquid portion of the recipe. It's worth seeing if that will help you with pizza dough. Joel ... Keyboard not available - Press to continue. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Feb 1995 15:53:52 -0600 From: jcherepy@mindspring.com (J. W. Cherepy,Jr.) Subject: Bread Machines Message-ID: <199502112053.PAA21503@dylan.mindspring.com> I'm considering getting a bread machine and given the various models availables, I'm looking for recommendations and any other info I can get. Is there a FAQ for bread machines? thanks, Bill Cherepy | "It is theoretically possible" Grayson, GA | Lt. Commander Data jcherepy@mindspring.com | U.S.S. Enterprise NCC-1701-D ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Feb 95 14:26:51 PST From: Bill Wilhelmi Subject: Re: Crispy Crust Message-ID: <9502072226.AA12117@hpcvxmk0.cv.hp.com> To keep a bread crust crispy, I folded a platic bag around the edge of the last cut in the loaf. This covers the inner loaf while leaving the uncut portion of the crust exposed. It worked well for me. -- _____________________________________________________________________________ Bill Wilhelmi Hewlett-Packard Workstation Technology Division 1000 NE Circle Blvd. Corvallis, OR 97330 Email: bw@cv.hp.com Phone: 503-715-2758 Fax: 503-715-5258 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 08 Feb 1995 09:07:47 -0700 From: Nathan Gerber Subject: Dough Cycle Message-ID: I have a Hitachi Home Bakery Plus. I've had it since Christmas, and I must say it is very nice to wake up to the aroma of fresh baked bread. We truly enjoy it. One thing that we have not mastered yet is the art of making dough in the machine for rolls. The roll dough recipe that comes in the book with machine just doesn't seem to want to rise. We have tried everything we can think of with no success. The French bread dough recipe works great and the regular bread cyle works fantastic. It just seems to be the roll dough cycle. Any recipes or help that anyone can offer on this topic would be appreciated. Thanks Nathan Gerber ngerber@uvsc.edu ========= I work, therfore I am. ============ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 07 Feb 1995 12:56:05 -0500 (EST) From: 00prneubauer@bsuvc.bsu.edu Subject: Re: Garlic in dough Message-ID: <01HMROCVKFLUI3RPHX@BSUVC.bsu.edu> Brian Hostetler wrote: >I made pizza dough the other day and put fresh garlic in it (pressed). >The dough didn't rise and had a crumbly texture. Has anyone >successfully added garlic to their dough? I have several times made the Garlic-Basil Sourdough bread from Donna German and Ed Wood's book _Worldwide Sourdoughs from your Bread Machine_. (I recommend the book, by the way. It has quite a few recipes that are well worth baking.) They comment that they have heard about rising problems when using fresh garlic but that this particular recipe has been no problem to them. I have had no problem with it either. It has risen quite well for me. I have no idea what circumstances cause the rising problem or why their recipe avoids it, but it is clear to me that fresh pressed garlic *can* be used in a bread recipe. Paul ======== Paul Neubauer 00prneubauer@bsu.edu ------------------------------ Date: 08 Feb 95 09:08:59 -0800 From: Joel.Ehrlich@salata.com (Joel Ehrlich) Subject: High Gluten Flour Message-ID: <689_9502090700@salata.com> Responding to: Bill Thomas BR> The other thing I found was "high-gluten" flour, though how this BR> differs from regular bread flour, I don't know. Same stuff (probably). Bread flour differs from all purpose flour in gluten content only. Joel ... Pie R square? NO! Pie R Round! Cornbread R Square! ------------------------------ Date: Tue, Feb 07, 1995 20.16 From: "Josh k Haygood" Subject: No Subject Message-ID: <199502080412.UAA11030@cello.gina.calstate.edu> I have been considering the purchase of a bread maker for a while now, but there are so many brands. Please send me your thoughts on the machine you have plus any special good or bad points about your machine. Thanks. -josh ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Feb 95 11:03:07 MST From: Jim Haselmaier Subject: Older Panasonic Message-ID: <9502081803.AA25750@mdddemo1.fc.hp.com> I have one of the older Panasonic machines (4 years....I'd guess). Its starting to show some where and I'm wondering who else has this machine and how its holding up. The paddle has started scraping the teflon off the bottom of the pan. Also, sometimes when its mixing it smells like the motor is on its last legs. Can parts be bought for this beast? Is it worth it to replace a motor? Other than those two items its working fine. Thanks. -- Jim Haselmaier Hewlett-Packard Co. / Work Management Operation Ft. Collins, CO Voice: (303) 229-3345 FAX: (303) 229-7182 E-Mail: jimh@fc.hp.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Feb 1995 09:29:57 -0500 From: CrissyMA@aol.com Subject: Rye Bread Recipe Request Message-ID: <950210092931_17950346@aol.com> I've been on FoodWine for about a year and on and off EAT-L and have requested rye bread recipes for bread machines with no responses. Sounds like this might be the place to ask. I too just found this list. Bought a rye bread mix in the grocery store which my husband liked (I thought it was, at best, mediocre). Also, it was $3.00+. Can anybody help me? Chris Marksberry in Houston P.S. - I have a Trillium clone ChefMate. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Feb 95 10:45 PST From: mary_white@sunshine.net (Mary White) Subject: Stuck blade Message-ID: >The story I read about the blade remaining in a baked loaf seems >impossible for my machine. Is my experience with the *always* stuck >blade shared by others? Any ideas for remedying it? I follow the >manufacturers guidance of always putting in the yeast last. But I tried >yeast first, water last, and it made no difference for the blade >sticking. > >Anybody solved this problem? My blade's been stuck in their for months! I don't worry about it. When I use it I just pull out the dried-up bread remaining from the last batch and go ahead. {{ Mary }} ------------------------------ Date: 08 Feb 95 09:06:53 -0800 From: Joel.Ehrlich@salata.com (Joel Ehrlich) Subject: Stuck blade Message-ID: <688_9502090700@salata.com> BR> I have another question for anyone with a Zo. The pamphlet that came BR> with it from King Arthur Flour (I mail-ordered the machine since I BR> can't buy a Zo in Canada) said the most common complaint about the Zo BR> is the kneading blade being stuck in the pan after you bake your BR> bread. They suggest oiling the shaft before placing the blade on it. To BR> unstick the blade you need to soak the pan with warm water in it for BR> 30 minutes. Well, oiling the inside of the blade hole and oiling the BR> shaft has not helped me. EVERY loaf (about 12 different recipes so BR> far) has had the blade stuck in the bread pan, resulting in a torn loaf BR> bottom (not too bad). The only thing the oiling seems to help is BR> freeing the stuck blade from the shaft after brief soaking in warm BR> water. The story I read about the blade remaining in a baked loaf BR> seems impossible for my machine. Is my experience with the *always* BR> stuck blade shared by others? Any ideas for remedying it? I follow the BR> manufacturers guidance of always putting in the yeast last. But I BR> tried yeast first, water last, and it made no difference for the blade BR> sticking. The blades from my Zoji alwayts come out in the loaf. The Zoji is different from most bread makers, the way the blades fit onto the hub, they can be locked to the hub. There is an index pin which makes sure the blades are aligned properly and it can get twisted into a position where it doesn't allow the blade to come off easily. I'd check that the index pin and groove are both clean and straight. I'd also talk to King Arthurs' customer service people (they are good and knowledgeable about the Zoji and respond faster than Zpji customer service) about the problem. They recently helped someone else whose blade simply would NOT come out - at all. Joel ... Nothing's impossible for those who don't have to do it. ------------------------------ Date: 08 Feb 95 09:00:52 -0800 From: Joel.Ehrlich@salata.com (Joel Ehrlich) Subject: Sunken Loaves Message-ID: <687_9502090700@salata.com> BR> I got a Toastmaster bread machine which I really like (makes 1-1/2 BR> pound loaves, is quiet, etc.) - but I'm having a terrible time with BR> sunken loaves. I watch the moisture content while the dough is being BR> kneaded, so I don't think it's too much moisture - which leaves me BR> with the conclusion that it's too much yeast. (the loaves rise very BR> nicely and then sink during the baking time) BR> I'm using Red Star active dry yeast (not the rapid rise) - and BR> generally make recipes out of Donna German's books. It's becoming BR> quite expensive to keep flopping all these loaves of bread, since I BR> use quite a lot of the different recipes using all the "fun" BR> ingredients - various whole grains, cereals, fruits, nuts, etc. BR> Has anyone else had to cut the yeast back quite drastically? I have BR> one cookbook (Better Homes & Gardens Bread Machine Bounty) in which BR> almost all the recipes call for 1 t. of yeast regardless of whether BR> making a 1 lb. or a 1-1/2 lb. loaf. BR> On the other hand, the recipe book that came with my machine has BR> recipes that call for 2 or more teaspoons - I'm sure reluctant to try BR> that! Sunken loaves are almost always an indiciation of too much liquid in the mix. Too much yeast will not cause the bread to fall, it will turn in to a "Mushroom", blossoming out over the top of the pan and pressing against the lid of the machine. Try this, add only 2/3 of the liquid called for in the recipe. Start the machine and let it run for a minute or two. Keep the machine running but open the cover. The dough should be grainly and rough and may not even have formed a ball. Add liquid, 1 teaspoon at a time, waiting 30 seconds or so after each addition, until the doughball forms with a smooth, soft, silky texture (reach right in and touch it). If you add too much liquid, the walls of the pan with be wet and there may be a smear of dough on the bottom of the pan. Add flour, 1 teaspoon at a time, waiting 30 to 45 seconds after each addition, until you have a soft, smooth textured ball of dough with a silky feel. Add 1 more teaspoon of flour, close the cover and go away until your perfect loaf of bread is finished. Joel ... Can you repeat the part after "Listen carefully..."? ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Feb 1995 10:46:00 -0500 From: "jonathan (j.n.) file" Subject: Timed dough cycle Message-ID: <"11626 Wed Feb 8 10:47:22 1995"@bnr.ca> I have a Westbend bread maker. The instructions say that you cannot use the timer with the dough cycle, but I tried it anyway and it works! So...don't believe everything you read...give it a try. Jonathan ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Feb 1995 08:20:23 +0500 From: michael.niemann@mail.trincoll.edu (Michael Niemann) Subject: Re: Timer & Dough Cycle, Stuck Blade Message-ID: <9502081320.AA12737@mail.trincoll.edu> > >From: byates@Newbridge.COM (Barbara Yates) > >I got a Zojirushi (the big one with the Home Made Menu feature) for >Christmas and the instruction book says you cannot program Dough and >use the timer. I was wondering if anyone has accomplished that feat >using the Home Made Menu? > You could create a dough cycle using the home made menu option simply by skipping the second rise and bake cycles (just press the button again to go to the next feature) however, that would not let you accomplish what you want, i.e., using the timer. You can use the timer only for the Basic and French Bread cycles, you cannot use the timer for the home made cycle. I was just as disappointed as you were when I found that out. I can understand why they Raisin, cake and jam cycles would not work on the timer since they all require some kind of action during or after the procedure, but the dough cycle should work with the timer. > >I have another question for anyone with a Zo. The pamphlet that came >with it from King Arthur Flour (I mail-ordered the machine since I >can't buy a Zo in Canada) said the most common complaint about the Zo >is the kneading blade being stuck in the pan after you bake your bread. >They suggest oiling the shaft before placing the blade on it. To >unstick the blade you need to soak the pan with warm water in it for 30 >minutes. Well, oiling the inside of the blade hole and oiling the >shaft has not helped me. EVERY loaf (about 12 different recipes so far) >has had the blade stuck in the bread pan, resulting in a torn loaf >bottom (not too bad). The only thing the oiling seems to help is >freeing the stuck blade from the shaft after brief soaking in warm >water. I am not sure, but I think that the sticking problem refers to getting the blade out of the pan afterwards not to having the blade remain in the loaf. Why would you want the blade to remain in the loaf? Even if you were to pry it out afterwards, the bottom crust would still have a hole. We just start slicing from the bottom first and after two slices the hole is gone. I also like to Zo very much. I bake mostly sourdoughs without yeast and the home made cycle is a real help there. Michael Niemann P.S. I just joined this list and it seems a great place to exchange information about bread makers. Do you guys also exchange recipes? ------------------------------ End of Bread Digest V6 #7 ****************************** Bread Digest Tue, 21 Feb 1995 Volume 6 : Issue 8 Today's Topics: evaluation request Panasonic Bread Machine Help ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 16 Feb 95 9:34:59 EST From: heather@library.carleton.ca (Heather Britt) Subject: evaluation request Message-ID: <9502161435.AA09058@library1.library.carleton.ca> Does anyone have an opinion on the Black and Decker Bread-making machine or the Charlescraft models? Am trying to make a decision as to what model of machine to purchase. Perhaps neither are to be recommended? -- Heather Britt, Systems Librarian, Carleton University Library Net: Heather_Britt@Carleton.CA Phone: 613-788-2600 ext 8189 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Feb 1995 21:36:51 -0500 (EST) From: Spiros Triantafyllopoulos Subject: Panasonic Bread Machine Help Message-ID: <9502180236.AA22196@indy2> [crossposted from rec.foods.cooking] Let me see if the wisdom of the net will save me this time.... A few months ago we purchased a Panasonic Bread Machine, SD-BD65P A few dozen loaves later the kneading paddle became loose in the axle, to the effect that it popped out of the axle. I do not remember it being THAT loose before. Inspection of the paddle revealed that its plastic bushing was a bit worn out, thus the wobble. The cross section of the axle is a D shape, and the 'corners' of the D were worn out, to be more precise. I replaced both the kneading blade and the kneading blade axle for $25 a piece (thank you, Panasonic, i.e. up yours). The new parts demonstrate similar wobble. These are brand new parts from Matsuhita Electric, AKA Panasonic, and while at the parts store I read the service manual myself which specified the correct spare parts for what I got. I have not tried the machine since because I might end up returning the parts or exchanging them. Has anyone run into the above before? Any insights will be appreciated. Thanks much! Spiros (breadless in Indianapolis) -- Spiros Triantafyllopoulos strianta@indy.net Carmel, Indiana OUZO POWER ------------------------------ End of Bread Digest V6 #8 ****************************** Bread Digest Tue, 28 Feb 1995 Volume 6 : Issue 9 Today's Topics: Cinnamon Swirl Bread (ABM) pizza crust ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 23 Feb 95 13:12:28 cst From: SKTHOM@ccmail.monsanto.com Subject: Cinnamon Swirl Bread (ABM) Message-ID: <9501237935.AA793574504@ccmail.monsanto.com> Following is a recipe that appeared in the recent King Arthur Catalog. It sounds wonderful, thought you all might enjoy it! PJ's Cinnamon Swirl Bread 2.5 t instant yeast 3 T sugar 1.5 t salt 3.5 c bread flour .25 c powdered milk 2 T unsalted butter, cut into pieces 1 c + 2 T warm water 1 T cinnamon mixed with 1 T sugar Place ingredients, except cinnamon-sugar, into bread machine and run on "dough" cycle. When machine has completed cycle, place dough on lightly oiled surface and let sit for 5 minutes. Roll into 8X15" rectangle, sprinkle with cinnamon-sugar. Starting with short end, roll dough into tight log. Tuck ends under. Put loaf seam side down in lightly greased bread pan. Let rise in warm place for 1-1.5 hours. Bake bread in 375 oven for 35-40 minutes. May need aluminum foil tent last 10 minutes of baking to keep it from getting too brown. From: King Arthur Flour Catalog, Winter-Early Spring, 1995 Sheri T. skthom@ccmail.monsanto.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 25 Feb 1995 10:46:34 -0700 From: as899@Freenet.HSC.Colorado.EDU (Lee Carkenord) Subject: pizza crust Message-ID: <199502251746.KAA28063@Freenet.HSC.Colorado.EDU> Anybody have a good simple recipe for making pizza dough/crust from scratch?? Lee -- ------------------------------ End of Bread Digest V6 #9 ****************************** Bread Digest Tue, 14 Feb 1995 Volume 6 : Issue 7 Today's Topics: BREAD Digest V6 #6 (2 msgs) Bread Machines Crispy Crust Dough Cycle Garlic in dough High Gluten Flour No Subject Older Panasonic Rye Bread Recipe Request Stuck blade (2 msgs) Sunken Loaves Timed dough cycle Timer & Dough Cycle, Stuck Blade ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 7 Feb 95 15:56:04 CST From: toma@romulus.cray.com (Thomas Arneberg {x66642 CF/DEV}) Subject: Re: BREAD Digest V6 #6 Message-ID: <9502072156.AA02308@romulus.cray.com> > Date: Tue, 31 Jan 1995 09:24:05 +0500 > From: byates@Newbridge.COM (Barbara Yates) > Subject: Timer & Dough Cycle, Stuck Blade > Message-ID: <9501311424.AA00640@zonker.newbridge> > > Ed Berlin asked: > "Is there any machine that permits programming a dough-cycle on > time-delay?" > > I got a Zojirushi (the big one with the Home Made Menu feature) for > Christmas and the instruction book says you cannot program Dough and > use the timer. I was wondering if anyone has accomplished that feat > using the Home Made Menu? I'd be interested to know the same thing. But I use a workaround -- I simply select the normal bread setting, and time it so that the dough is done when I want it. For example, if I want dough to be finished kneading and rising when I get home at 5:00 p.m., I can add the ingredients in the morning, select regular bread, and set the time of completion for 7:30 or so. Thus the machine will knead from 3:30-4:00, and the dough will rise from 4-5:00. I can then take it out and reset the machine when I get home (before it starts baking). > most common complaint about the Zo > is the kneading blade being stuck in the pan after you bake your bread. > They suggest oiling the shaft before placing the blade on it. To I haven't had much luck getting the blade out on my Zoji, either. Out of my 388 loaves, I've probably taken the blade out a couple dozen times. Sometimes I'll try slipping a string underneath it and pulling up, but it's still hard. I'm not convinced there's a downside of not removing the kneading blade each time, though...can anyone elaborate on why this is crucial? - Tom A. --------------------------------------------+---------------------------- ;-) I'd rather be ____ Thomas R. Arneberg | Internet: toma@cray.com :-) singing in a |____| MPP IC Design Group | http://www.mcs.com/~toma :-) Barbershop _| _| Cray Research, Inc. | MADD Member (Mathematicians :-) Quartet! (_) (_) Chippewa Falls, Wisc.| Against Drunk Deriving) --------------------------------------------+---------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: 08 Feb 95 09:15:06 -0800 From: Joel.Ehrlich@salata.com (Joel Ehrlich) Subject: Re: BREAD Digest V6 #6 Message-ID: <68a_9502090700@salata.com> Responding to: Brian Hostetler BR> I made pizza dough the other day and put fresh garlic in it (pressed). BR> The dough didn't rise and had a crumbly texture. Has anyone BR> successfully added garlic to their dough? I have been working in response to a challenge to mage garlic bread in a bread machine. While I still have a long way to go, I can tell you that garlic will flatten a loaf at least as well as too much salt. I have found that I must use more yeast than without the garlic, that the addition of a little citric acid works wonders and that I must add gluten if I want a nice loft to the loaf of bread. I have not yet worked out all the ramifications and haven't yet tried to apply any of these lessons to pizza dough. However, I would stay away from minced garlic, powdered garlic and garlic oil. So far, I have had my best success using roasted garlic mashed and combined with the liquid portion of the recipe. It's worth seeing if that will help you with pizza dough. Joel ... Keyboard not available - Press to continue. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Feb 1995 15:53:52 -0600 From: jcherepy@mindspring.com (J. W. Cherepy,Jr.) Subject: Bread Machines Message-ID: <199502112053.PAA21503@dylan.mindspring.com> I'm considering getting a bread machine and given the various models availables, I'm looking for recommendations and any other info I can get. Is there a FAQ for bread machines? thanks, Bill Cherepy | "It is theoretically possible" Grayson, GA | Lt. Commander Data jcherepy@mindspring.com | U.S.S. Enterprise NCC-1701-D ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Feb 95 14:26:51 PST From: Bill Wilhelmi Subject: Re: Crispy Crust Message-ID: <9502072226.AA12117@hpcvxmk0.cv.hp.com> To keep a bread crust crispy, I folded a platic bag around the edge of the last cut in the loaf. This covers the inner loaf while leaving the uncut portion of the crust exposed. It worked well for me. -- _____________________________________________________________________________ Bill Wilhelmi Hewlett-Packard Workstation Technology Division 1000 NE Circle Blvd. Corvallis, OR 97330 Email: bw@cv.hp.com Phone: 503-715-2758 Fax: 503-715-5258 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 08 Feb 1995 09:07:47 -0700 From: Nathan Gerber Subject: Dough Cycle Message-ID: I have a Hitachi Home Bakery Plus. I've had it since Christmas, and I must say it is very nice to wake up to the aroma of fresh baked bread. We truly enjoy it. One thing that we have not mastered yet is the art of making dough in the machine for rolls. The roll dough recipe that comes in the book with machine just doesn't seem to want to rise. We have tried everything we can think of with no success. The French bread dough recipe works great and the regular bread cyle works fantastic. It just seems to be the roll dough cycle. Any recipes or help that anyone can offer on this topic would be appreciated. Thanks Nathan Gerber ngerber@uvsc.edu ========= I work, therfore I am. ============ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 07 Feb 1995 12:56:05 -0500 (EST) From: 00prneubauer@bsuvc.bsu.edu Subject: Re: Garlic in dough Message-ID: <01HMROCVKFLUI3RPHX@BSUVC.bsu.edu> Brian Hostetler wrote: >I made pizza dough the other day and put fresh garlic in it (pressed). >The dough didn't rise and had a crumbly texture. Has anyone >successfully added garlic to their dough? I have several times made the Garlic-Basil Sourdough bread from Donna German and Ed Wood's book _Worldwide Sourdoughs from your Bread Machine_. (I recommend the book, by the way. It has quite a few recipes that are well worth baking.) They comment that they have heard about rising problems when using fresh garlic but that this particular recipe has been no problem to them. I have had no problem with it either. It has risen quite well for me. I have no idea what circumstances cause the rising problem or why their recipe avoids it, but it is clear to me that fresh pressed garlic *can* be used in a bread recipe. Paul ======== Paul Neubauer 00prneubauer@bsu.edu ------------------------------ Date: 08 Feb 95 09:08:59 -0800 From: Joel.Ehrlich@salata.com (Joel Ehrlich) Subject: High Gluten Flour Message-ID: <689_9502090700@salata.com> Responding to: Bill Thomas BR> The other thing I found was "high-gluten" flour, though how this BR> differs from regular bread flour, I don't know. Same stuff (probably). Bread flour differs from all purpose flour in gluten content only. Joel ... Pie R square? NO! Pie R Round! Cornbread R Square! ------------------------------ Date: Tue, Feb 07, 1995 20.16 From: "Josh k Haygood" Subject: No Subject Message-ID: <199502080412.UAA11030@cello.gina.calstate.edu> I have been considering the purchase of a bread maker for a while now, but there are so many brands. Please send me your thoughts on the machine you have plus any special good or bad points about your machine. Thanks. -josh ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Feb 95 11:03:07 MST From: Jim Haselmaier Subject: Older Panasonic Message-ID: <9502081803.AA25750@mdddemo1.fc.hp.com> I have one of the older Panasonic machines (4 years....I'd guess). Its starting to show some where and I'm wondering who else has this machine and how its holding up. The paddle has started scraping the teflon off the bottom of the pan. Also, sometimes when its mixing it smells like the motor is on its last legs. Can parts be bought for this beast? Is it worth it to replace a motor? Other than those two items its working fine. Thanks. -- Jim Haselmaier Hewlett-Packard Co. / Work Management Operation Ft. Collins, CO Voice: (303) 229-3345 FAX: (303) 229-7182 E-Mail: jimh@fc.hp.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Feb 1995 09:29:57 -0500 From: CrissyMA@aol.com Subject: Rye Bread Recipe Request Message-ID: <950210092931_17950346@aol.com> I've been on FoodWine for about a year and on and off EAT-L and have requested rye bread recipes for bread machines with no responses. Sounds like this might be the place to ask. I too just found this list. Bought a rye bread mix in the grocery store which my husband liked (I thought it was, at best, mediocre). Also, it was $3.00+. Can anybody help me? Chris Marksberry in Houston P.S. - I have a Trillium clone ChefMate. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Feb 95 10:45 PST From: mary_white@sunshine.net (Mary White) Subject: Stuck blade Message-ID: >The story I read about the blade remaining in a baked loaf seems >impossible for my machine. Is my experience with the *always* stuck >blade shared by others? Any ideas for remedying it? I follow the >manufacturers guidance of always putting in the yeast last. But I tried >yeast first, water last, and it made no difference for the blade >sticking. > >Anybody solved this problem? My blade's been stuck in their for months! I don't worry about it. When I use it I just pull out the dried-up bread remaining from the last batch and go ahead. {{ Mary }} ------------------------------ Date: 08 Feb 95 09:06:53 -0800 From: Joel.Ehrlich@salata.com (Joel Ehrlich) Subject: Stuck blade Message-ID: <688_9502090700@salata.com> BR> I have another question for anyone with a Zo. The pamphlet that came BR> with it from King Arthur Flour (I mail-ordered the machine since I BR> can't buy a Zo in Canada) said the most common complaint about the Zo BR> is the kneading blade being stuck in the pan after you bake your BR> bread. They suggest oiling the shaft before placing the blade on it. To BR> unstick the blade you need to soak the pan with warm water in it for BR> 30 minutes. Well, oiling the inside of the blade hole and oiling the BR> shaft has not helped me. EVERY loaf (about 12 different recipes so BR> far) has had the blade stuck in the bread pan, resulting in a torn loaf BR> bottom (not too bad). The only thing the oiling seems to help is BR> freeing the stuck blade from the shaft after brief soaking in warm BR> water. The story I read about the blade remaining in a baked loaf BR> seems impossible for my machine. Is my experience with the *always* BR> stuck blade shared by others? Any ideas for remedying it? I follow the BR> manufacturers guidance of always putting in the yeast last. But I BR> tried yeast first, water last, and it made no difference for the blade BR> sticking. The blades from my Zoji alwayts come out in the loaf. The Zoji is different from most bread makers, the way the blades fit onto the hub, they can be locked to the hub. There is an index pin which makes sure the blades are aligned properly and it can get twisted into a position where it doesn't allow the blade to come off easily. I'd check that the index pin and groove are both clean and straight. I'd also talk to King Arthurs' customer service people (they are good and knowledgeable about the Zoji and respond faster than Zpji customer service) about the problem. They recently helped someone else whose blade simply would NOT come out - at all. Joel ... Nothing's impossible for those who don't have to do it. ------------------------------ Date: 08 Feb 95 09:00:52 -0800 From: Joel.Ehrlich@salata.com (Joel Ehrlich) Subject: Sunken Loaves Message-ID: <687_9502090700@salata.com> BR> I got a Toastmaster bread machine which I really like (makes 1-1/2 BR> pound loaves, is quiet, etc.) - but I'm having a terrible time with BR> sunken loaves. I watch the moisture content while the dough is being BR> kneaded, so I don't think it's too much moisture - which leaves me BR> with the conclusion that it's too much yeast. (the loaves rise very BR> nicely and then sink during the baking time) BR> I'm using Red Star active dry yeast (not the rapid rise) - and BR> generally make recipes out of Donna German's books. It's becoming BR> quite expensive to keep flopping all these loaves of bread, since I BR> use quite a lot of the different recipes using all the "fun" BR> ingredients - various whole grains, cereals, fruits, nuts, etc. BR> Has anyone else had to cut the yeast back quite drastically? I have BR> one cookbook (Better Homes & Gardens Bread Machine Bounty) in which BR> almost all the recipes call for 1 t. of yeast regardless of whether BR> making a 1 lb. or a 1-1/2 lb. loaf. BR> On the other hand, the recipe book that came with my machine has BR> recipes that call for 2 or more teaspoons - I'm sure reluctant to try BR> that! Sunken loaves are almost always an indiciation of too much liquid in the mix. Too much yeast will not cause the bread to fall, it will turn in to a "Mushroom", blossoming out over the top of the pan and pressing against the lid of the machine. Try this, add only 2/3 of the liquid called for in the recipe. Start the machine and let it run for a minute or two. Keep the machine running but open the cover. The dough should be grainly and rough and may not even have formed a ball. Add liquid, 1 teaspoon at a time, waiting 30 seconds or so after each addition, until the doughball forms with a smooth, soft, silky texture (reach right in and touch it). If you add too much liquid, the walls of the pan with be wet and there may be a smear of dough on the bottom of the pan. Add flour, 1 teaspoon at a time, waiting 30 to 45 seconds after each addition, until you have a soft, smooth textured ball of dough with a silky feel. Add 1 more teaspoon of flour, close the cover and go away until your perfect loaf of bread is finished. Joel ... Can you repeat the part after "Listen carefully..."? ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Feb 1995 10:46:00 -0500 From: "jonathan (j.n.) file" Subject: Timed dough cycle Message-ID: <"11626 Wed Feb 8 10:47:22 1995"@bnr.ca> I have a Westbend bread maker. The instructions say that you cannot use the timer with the dough cycle, but I tried it anyway and it works! So...don't believe everything you read...give it a try. Jonathan ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Feb 1995 08:20:23 +0500 From: michael.niemann@mail.trincoll.edu (Michael Niemann) Subject: Re: Timer & Dough Cycle, Stuck Blade Message-ID: <9502081320.AA12737@mail.trincoll.edu> > >From: byates@Newbridge.COM (Barbara Yates) > >I got a Zojirushi (the big one with the Home Made Menu feature) for >Christmas and the instruction book says you cannot program Dough and >use the timer. I was wondering if anyone has accomplished that feat >using the Home Made Menu? > You could create a dough cycle using the home made menu option simply by skipping the second rise and bake cycles (just press the button again to go to the next feature) however, that would not let you accomplish what you want, i.e., using the timer. You can use the timer only for the Basic and French Bread cycles, you cannot use the timer for the home made cycle. I was just as disappointed as you were when I found that out. I can understand why they Raisin, cake and jam cycles would not work on the timer since they all require some kind of action during or after the procedure, but the dough cycle should work with the timer. > >I have another question for anyone with a Zo. The pamphlet that came >with it from King Arthur Flour (I mail-ordered the machine since I >can't buy a Zo in Canada) said the most common complaint about the Zo >is the kneading blade being stuck in the pan after you bake your bread. >They suggest oiling the shaft before placing the blade on it. To >unstick the blade you need to soak the pan with warm water in it for 30 >minutes. Well, oiling the inside of the blade hole and oiling the >shaft has not helped me. EVERY loaf (about 12 different recipes so far) >has had the blade stuck in the bread pan, resulting in a torn loaf >bottom (not too bad). The only thing the oiling seems to help is >freeing the stuck blade from the shaft after brief soaking in warm >water. I am not sure, but I think that the sticking problem refers to getting the blade out of the pan afterwards not to having the blade remain in the loaf. Why would you want the blade to remain in the loaf? Even if you were to pry it out afterwards, the bottom crust would still have a hole. We just start slicing from the bottom first and afteener - as it was before the i I also like to Zo very much. I bake mostly sourdoughs without yeast and the home made cycle is a real help there. Michael Niemann P.S. I just joined this list and it seems a great place to exchange information about bread makers. Do you guys also exchange recipes? ------------------------------ End of Bread Digest V6 #7 ****************************** Bread Digest Wed, 8 Mar 1995 Volume 6 : Issue 10 Today's Topics: BREAD Digest V6 #7 BREAD Digest V6 #8 bread machines Bread Machines... Bread problem Croutons Hello out there, I'm a newbie pizza crust Pizza Dough Recipe rye bread (2 msgs) Rye Bread Recipe Zoji and stuck blade Zo Paddle Removal ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 28 Feb 1995 13:40:42 -0700 (MST) From: "Steven A. Hocevar" Subject: Re: BREAD Digest V6 #7 Message-ID: <950228134042.b43@stimpy.FhHosp.Ab.Ca> >From: mary_white@sunshine.net (Mary White) >>The story I read about the blade remaining in a baked loaf seems >>impossible for my machine. Is my experience with the *always* stuck >>blade shared by others? Any ideas for remedying it? I follow the >>manufacturers guidance of always putting in the yeast last. But I tried >>yeast first, water last, and it made no difference for the blade >>sticking. >> >>Anybody solved this problem? > >My blade's been stuck in their for months! I don't worry about it. When I >use it I just pull out the dried-up bread remaining from the last batch and >go ahead. > >{{ Mary }} I don't know if this will help anybody's problem but it works for me. After I shake out the loaf, I fill the pan up with water to at least over the top of the paddle and let it sit for a couple of hours. The water softens up the dough cementing the blade in and it comes right out. -- Steve Hocevar Steve.Hocevar@CRHA-Health.ab.ca Calgary, Alberta, Canada *Downsize - 5 million lemmings can't be wrong* ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Feb 1995 16:12:44 -0700 (MST) From: gskaid10@idptv.idbsu.edu (Kelly Roberts) Subject: Re: BREAD Digest V6 #8 Message-ID: Hello from Idaho - I have just subscribed to this Bread digest and love all the wonderful recipes. My brother and I received Breadman Breadmakers for Christmas and have made bread almost 3 times per week. We have had no problems at all with these machines. I just wanted to put in a good word for them as I keep reading that people are having problems with their brands. Thanks for all the great recipes and information.... ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Feb 1995 18:11:42 -0400 (EDT) From: CURTISK@NKU.EDU Subject: bread machines Message-ID: <01HNLBJA955E9GW2W2@NKU.EDU> After Christmas when there were sales we bought our West Bend Bread Machine. I want to tell you that we love this thing. It has both 1 and 1 1/2 lb. capacity, dough capacity, whole wheat, and everything that we could possibly need including a window on top for the curious. It was on sale for $139 and the clerk said everyone loved it at Christmas. They also had Hitachis for $100 more. My daughter has one. It is nice for a big family because it has an extension to allow for making a 2 pound loaf and jam. I don't make jam nor do we need 2 pound loaves. (Her paddle gets stuck in the bread and mine doesn't) I think I just lucked out on this Westinghouse, but I can also say that customer service has been wonderful about answering all of my questions about the process. For example, I didn't know why it was necessary to put 4 pieces of butter in each corner if you are using butter. She explained that in the early pre rise this allows the butter to run down the side and lubricate the sides of the pan. Another thing that I have learned (not from them, incidentally), yeast doesn't like salt. Add the salt at a different time than the yeast. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 02 Mar 1995 10:23:32 -0500 From: "Michael E. Grabenstein" Subject: Re: Bread Machines... Message-ID: <9503021523.AA18652@sun.gsfc.nasa.gov> I have a Regal and love it. The pan broke in the 11th month of the 12 month warranty and Regal fixed it for free and paid me for my shipping. (Shiped it back to me free and sent me a check for the shipping charges I had paid for to send it to them.) I am very happy the machine gets what I consider heavy use... A 25 pound bag of flour lasts me between 1 and 2 months. That is white bread flour, which does not account for the Wheat and Rye I use at times too throughout the month... :-) The December 1993 issue of Consumer reports ran down Bread machines (Mine, Regal placed second, or thrid). I bet the December 1994 listed bread machines too, but I have not checked... I think this was the order: 1) Zori. 2) BreadMan 3) Regal One thing consumer reports noted about the BreadMan is that it had a 3 year warranty (Nice). The Zori. that made it into the top position was their top of the line that year. Zori's lower priced model was horribly low on the list... One I have my eye on is the Oster 2 lb. Machine. Looks very similar to the BreadMan's 2 lb. machine, but more inexpensive... Anyone have one? It was brand new fall of 1994. But I am too happy with my Regal to buy any... Regal also had a new model last year. Lots of bells and whistles... anyone have one? I think it made a 2 lb loaf too... One thing to look for with the new 2 lb machines is the height of the pan. Some of the 2lb pans don't seem any taller, just fatter. When what you want is a longer loaf that will produce more slices, not a bigger slice... Later, Mike, Michael.Grabenstein@gsfc.nasa.gov UNIX Administrator GSFC Libraries Project #include Q: What do you call a series of FDIV instructions on a Pentium? A: Successive Approximations. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 01 Mar 1995 20:23:59 +0800 From: bjones@bdt.com (Bob Jones) Subject: Bread problem Message-ID: Well I have a Hitachi bread machine and have used it for about 2 years. Had pretty good luck up until about 6 or 8 months ago. The problem is that the bread rises just fine, but as soon as the bake cycle starts the bread falls to about 1/4 to 1/3 the size. I'm not really into eating hockey pucks. I have tried adding 2T of gluten to the recipe. I have tried both cutting down and increasing the water. I have switched yeasts. I have tried different flour. I really can't imagine it having anything to do with the machine. Can anyone help me with this problem? Bob Jones bjones@bdt.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 Mar 1995 09:40:58 -0500 From: af024@detroit.freenet.org (Clare Smith Long) Subject: Croutons Message-ID: <199503011440.JAA00206@detroit.freenet.org> I made some fabulous croutons from the leftover part of a loaf of Italian Herb Bread. They are very easy (recipe adapted from "Deep in the Heart - Dallas Junior Forum): Croutons 2 Tbsp. olive oil 2 Tbsp. vegetable oil Day old bread cut into small cubes (remove crust if desired) desired seasonings (garlic, Parmesan cheese, etc.) Mix olive oil and vegetable oil together in a small bowl. Spread on cookie sheet. Put bread cubes on cookie sheet and sprinkle with seasonings of your choice. Toast cubes at 250 F. for 40 - 60 minutes. Drain on paper towels. Store in airtight container or plastic bag. -- Clare Long Hartland, Michigan af024@detroit.freenet.org ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 3 Mar 95 14:07 EST From: mercedes@moeller.com (Mercedes Montalvo) Subject: Hello out there, I'm a newbie Message-ID: What's new in the bread world. I'm a sourdough lover. Give me a yell. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Feb 1995 19:48:34 +0500 From: dan@clark.net (dan) Subject: pizza crust Message-ID: <9503010048.AA16779@clarknet.clark.net> > >Anybody have a good simple recipe for making pizza dough/crust >from scratch?? > Lee I got this from rec.food.cooking a year or 2 ago. I like it. scaled back from the industrial size to an amount appropriate for a single family. Disolve in: 1 1/4 cups of warm water (110-120 degrees F) 1 packet active dry yeast 1 1/4 tbsp sugar Allow to sit for 8-10 minutes (builds a good froth, so make sure this is in a 2 cup or larger container, glass is best as it holds the heat nicely) While yeast water is brewing, place in either a mixing bowl of a mixer with a dough hook or the bowl of a bread machine set on manual (no bake cycle): 3 1/4 cups flour 1/2 tsp salt When water is ready, add to flour, along with: 1 tbsp olive oil or butter flavoured oil (latter is personal touch I prefer) Mix thoroughly for about 4-6 minutes, being ready to add flour or water if neccessary (flour can vary from brand to brand) to make a smooth, springy dough. Dough should only be slightly sticky to the firm touch. Remove dough from bowl and place in an airtight bag. Do not seal bag, but leave open in a nearly closed drape (that is, not wide open, but enough to allow gasses from yeast to escape). Set in a warm place for at lest one hour and fifteen minutes. This is the crucial part. Most people don't allow the dough to properly rise, resulting in a tough, unpleasant dough. Roll out to cover a 14 inch pan for thicker crust, 16 inch pan for thinner crust. Permeate crust with fork in a similar fashion to the way used to keep pie crusts from bubbling. Cover with plastic wrap and allow to rise an additional 15-20 minutes. Briefly repeat permeation with fork, though not as thoroughly. Prepare toppings and sauses as desired. Cook pizza at 475 until crusts turns golden brown on edges and cheese is browned and bubbling (presuming your has cheese on it). Dan E dan@clark.net ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 Mar 1995 13:45:16 -0500 From: CrissyMA@aol.com Subject: Pizza Dough Recipe Message-ID: <950301134514_36052518@aol.com> I used this recipe (from ChefMate Bakery Oven CookBook) last week for our first home made pizza. 6 1/2 ounces water 2 1/3 cups bread flour 1 tablespoon dry skim milk 2 tablespoons sugar 1 teaspoon salt 1 tablespoon butter 1 1/2 teaspoons dry yeast 1. Put ingredients in bread case. Select dough mode. 2. When buzzer sounds, remove dough from bread case and place in a greased bowl. Cover it with wrap and let sit for 20 to 30 minutes. 3. Cut into 2 or 3 portions in a round shape. Cover with a clean cloth and rest the dough for about 15 minutes. 4. Flatten dough into a circle, spread it onto pie plate and prick with fork. 5. Glaze with pizza sauce and sprinkle with onion, green pepper, mushroom, salami and cheese. 6. Bake in 400 degree/205 C. oven for 15 to 20 minutes until crust is golden brown. We used a 12-inch pizza pan and had enough dough left to make 4 dinner rolls a few days later. They were good too! Chris Marksberry in Houston >Date: Sat, 25 Feb 1995 10:46:34 -0700 From: as899@Freenet.HSC.Colorado.EDU (Lee Carkenord) >Subject: pizza crust Message-ID: <199502251746.KAA28063@Freenet.HSC.Colorado.EDU> >Anybody have a good simple recipe for making pizza dough/crust from scratch?? > Lee ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 Mar 1995 14:12:35 -0500 From: "John E. Johns" Subject: Rye Bread Message-ID: <199503021912.OAA24610@tso2.tso.uc.edu> Chris Marksberry requested a recipe for rye bread. This is a good light rye from ELECTRIC BREAD: 3/4 C water 1 1/2 C White bread flour 1/2 C Rye flour 1 1/2 T Sugar 3/4 t Salt 3/4 T Butter 2 t cornmeal 1 t Caraway seeds 1 1/4 t Fast rise yeast or 2 t active dry yeast This is the ingredients list for the one pound size. If you need the 1 1/2 pound size, request it and I will post it. I also have a recipe for another rye but didn't post it because I haven't tried it. John in Cincinnati ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Mar 95 14:05 MST From: mormaker@rmii.com Subject: rye bread Message-ID: Someone asked for a rye bread recipe. If you don't like dill, just leave it out. Micky * Exported from MasterCook II * Rye and Dill Bread Recipe By : Serving Size : 12 Preparation Time :0:00 Categories : Fat-Free Amount Measure Ingredient -- Preparation Method -------- ------------ -------------------------------- 5 oz milk, skim -- warmed 6 oz water -- warmed 3 tbsp sugar, brown 1 1/2 tsp lecithin 1 1/2 c flour, whole-grain wheat 1 1/2 c flour, white 1 c flour, rye, dark 1 1/2 tsp salt 1 tbsp caraway seed 1 1/2 tsp dill weed 1 1/2 tsp yeast Put all ingredients in bread machine. Bake on medium setting. - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - NOTES : Makes large loaf. ------------------------------ Date: 01 Mar 95 06:32:44 -0800 From: Joel.Ehrlich@salata.com (Joel Ehrlich) Subject: Rye Bread Recipe Message-ID: <10a_9503021300@salata.com> Responding to: CrissyMA@aol.com CM> I've been on FoodWine for about a year and on and off EAT-L and have CM> requested rye bread recipes for bread machines with no responses. CM> Sounds like this might be the place to ask. I too just found this CM> list. CM> Bought a rye bread mix in the grocery store which my husband liked (I CM> thought it was, at best, mediocre). Also, it was $3.00+. CM> Can anybody help me? Of course. This is an incredible rye bread. It is light, has a great, open texture, good, sweet, rye flavor and rises beautifully. New York Rye Bread (ABM) No. 3252 Yields 1 Loaf 1 1/2 tsp Dry Yeast 3 tsp Caraway Seed 2 Cups Bread Flour 1/2 tsp Salt 1 Cup Rye Flour 7/8 Cup Water, Warm 2 Tbls Sugar 1 Tbls Butter, Melted Add the ingredients to the pan in the order listed. Select "White Bread". Select "Medium" color. Press "Start". --- Mike Coticchio Joel ... It's as easy as 3.14159265358979323846264338327950 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Feb 1995 17:40:02 -0500 (EST) From: SHIRLEY M JOHNSON Subject: Zoji and stuck blade Message-ID: <950228174002.22607878@vaxa.clarion.edu> I've had a Zoji since Christmas and have made many loaves of bread following the instructions in the booklet that came with it (for basic white bread, that is). I've never had a problem with the bread sticking or the bottom of the loaf tearing. Usually, I take the bread out as soon as its comleted baking (I don't wait for the cool-down cycle to complete). The blade remains in the pan and is difficult to remove, however, I've discovered that if I put little water in the pan--enough to cover the blade-- and let it sit for a couple of hours-- the blade easily pulls off for cleaning. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Feb 1995 14:58:31 PST From: "Rob Ryerson" Subject: Re: Zo Paddle Removal Message-ID: <332AB3C3ECC@compctr.ccs.csus.edu> > > most common complaint about the Zo > > is the kneading blade being stuck in the pan after you bake your bread. > > They suggest oiling the shaft before placing the blade on it. To Must have missed the original comments on this. I've never had any trouble getting the paddle out. It always stays in when I remove a loaf (I considered that a feature, instead of having to use pliers to pull it out of a loaf). I set the pan aside to cool. Then just reach in and remove the paddle. Occasionally with some loaves, I soak the pan after it's cooled with water. However, I'm on my second pan. The original one lost the o-ring for the kneeding rod after about 4 months/70 loaves. When I called, I also mentioned that the paddle was a little 'sloppy'. When the replacement pan came, they had included a new paddle. All they asked was that I return the original pan, rod, and paddle. That was almost 2 years ago, and haven't had any problems since. With both pans/paddles, I never had any trouble removing the paddle after baking a loaf. Rob ------------------------------ End of Bread Digest V6 #10 ****************************** Bread Digest Mon, 13 Mar 1995 Volume 6 : Issue 11 Today's Topics: BREAD Digest V6 #10 Re Hitachi machines (fwd) Sunken Loaves Which bread machine to purchase? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 8 Mar 1995 21:48:20 -0500 From: ai379@detroit.freenet.org (Howard Lawson) Subject: Re: BREAD Digest V6 #10 Message-ID: <199503090248.VAA23889@detroit.freenet.org> I'm just getting into bread and students are loading my lots of books, etc. The May/June 1994 issue of Cook's Illustrated mag published by Boston Common Press Limited , Brookline Village, MA lists and rates bread machines as follows: National Bread Bakery, $375, Superb white and wheat, Rate A+ Zojirushi $339, white & wheat good, fully loaded, B+ West Bend Automatic, $200, wheat had pale sunken crust, very goo white and raisin. Excellent manual recipe. B Welbilt $170, stripped model. beautiful loaves. B Hitachi $360, thick, chewy crusts, frequent problems with crinkly tops, B- Toastmaster, $200, Crusts thin and pale C+ Maxim, $275, Very good with white and wheat. Pulverizes raisins, Poor results from recipe in manual C+ Regal, $330, Good wheat bread, raisins burned on bottom, very good reciple in manual, Pan is better for smaller recipes. rated C Breadman, $199. Wheat bread rises perfectly... White and raisin breads are disasters as is recipe. All breads raised to top, then sunk. C Sanyo, $200 White, Wheat, and raisin breads were toal (total) disasters. This machine has a major problem, an undersized pan. rated D. Gosh, I guess we'll be kneading our own bread until all the bugs are out. Hope this helps someone. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Mar 1995 02:34:03 -0700 (MST) From: Janet Stout Subject: Re Hitachi machines (fwd) Message-ID: Here's a dialogue with Bob Jones that resulted from his posted message. He felt that it should be posted to the list (thanks Bob!): Hi Janet, >Hope my netiquette is okay, since this is my first try at a response via >e-mail. I was intrigued by your posting to the bread digest about the >problem with your Hitachi breadmaker, and would love to post this answer >to the Digest and see who else responds, but I haven't a clue how to do >that without you receiving a copy of the whole Digest! But I will >learn... :^). > I think you should send this to the entire digest. It would be interesting to hear if others have experienced the same problem. Just send it to Bread@cykick.infores.com >My Hitachi worked fine for about 2 months, then began doing the same >thing yours is doing. Previous phone contact with Hitachi in the U.S. >resulted >in a courteous, helpful, cooperative, consumer-oriented response, and on an >800 number yet. Unfortunately, when they found out I was calling from >Canada, they told me I'd have to deal with their Montreal people. No 800 >number, and a very rude response that boiled down to "tough, that's not >our problem, talk to whoever sold the machine to you". Needless to say, I >haven't bothered to contact Hitachi about the 'bread hockey pucks' >problem I share with you. I too tried many yeasts and flours and >variations with no luck--it is a machine malfunction we're dealing with here. I did call their 800 number several months ago and really didn't get much satisfaction. They offered help like "did you use the exact ingredients in the handbook?" Not much help really. > >So last week we went back to the store we bought the machine at, and when >I said that I wanted to speak to them about a problem with a bread >machine, the clerk said immediately, "Is it a Hitachi?". Apparently they >were getting an unreasonably large percentage of Hitachi machines being >returned, and they had no hesitation about refunding our money even >though we'd had the machine for about 4 months by then. > This really baffles me. Really all a bread machine does is stir and heat. I can see it stir and I know it heats because it bakes. If fact I know it heats OK because the bread rises OK. When it goes into bake mode, that is just a high heat cycle like an oven. I can't see how the bread machine could be at fault. Did they give you any ideas about the failure mechanism? >We use our bread machine constantly and really miss it, after 10 years of >making bread the old fashioned way every 2 weeks; but we're reluctant to >try Hitachi again. Unfortunately, the selection here is meagre; and we >would have to buy a machine without many of the features we enjoyed with >the Hitachi if we change brands. For the time, we remain in limbo, >gathering info on other brands and hoping the local selection will improve. > >Can you let me know what happens in your case? I assume you'll have to >deal with Hitachi since you've had your machine 2 yrs. Best of luck to you!! I will let you know if I ever resolve the mystery. Thanks for your response! Bob Jones bjones@bdt.com ------------------------------ Date: 09 Mar 95 07:13:41 -0800 From: Joel.Ehrlich@salata.com (Joel Ehrlich) Subject: Sunken Loaves Message-ID: <809_9503100900@salata.com> Responding to: bjones@bdt.com (Bob Jones) BJ> Well I have a Hitachi bread machine and have used it for about 2 BJ> years. Had pretty good luck up until about 6 or 8 months ago. The BJ> problem is that the bread rises just fine, but as soon as the bake BJ> cycle starts the bread falls to about 1/4 to 1/3 the size. I'm not BJ> really into eating hockey pucks. BJ> I have tried adding 2T of gluten to the recipe. I have tried both BJ> cutting down and increasing the water. I have switched yeasts. I have BJ> tried different flour. I really can't imagine it having anything to do BJ> with the machine. You've described an over risen loaf. This is most frequently caused by too much liquid. It can be the result of too much yeast or too much sugar, but either of these is rare - it takes so much yeast or sugar to over raise a loaf in the time allowed by your machine that you would surely have noticed the error. Try the following: Add only 2/3 of the amount of liquid called for in the recipe. Start the machine and let it run for about 2 minutes. Open the cover (leave the machine running.) The dough should be grainy and uneven and may not even have formed a ball. Add the held back liquid, one teaspoon at a time, waiting about 30 seconds between additions, until the dough comes together and smooths out. It should have a smooth, even, elastic texture and should feel soft and dry (reach right in and touch it - turn off the machine if you must, there's no harm in restarting it.) Should the dough be sticky or tacky or should a smear of liquid or dough appear on the walls of the pan or under the paddle, you've gone to far. Add flour, 1 teaspoon at a time, waiting 45 seconds to a minute between additions, until the smears and wetness get picked up by the dough and the dough is as described above. In either event, add 1 more teaspoon of flour, close the cover and go away until your bread is ready. Joel ... Please, God, not *another* learning experience! ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 Mar 1995 00:00:48 -0500 From: vida@crsa.bu.edu (Vida Jakabhazy) Subject: Which bread machine to purchase? Message-ID: <199503090500.AAA10268@crsa.bu.edu> I received a Panasonic b.m. as a present and am trying to decide if it is the right one for my needs. I'd love to get opinions from folks. (I know there's a Consumer Reports article about b.m.s but that was the middle of last year but I believe there are additional models out there now.) Quick background on the Panasonic: model SD-BT10P, whole wheat and basic bread modes, 13-hr timer, 1lb loaves, rapid bake mode (3hrs), light crust setting, and dough mode (and even though it was a gift, I know it cost $149) Would folks suggest suitable models given the following criteria (not in any particular order): 1) square loaf (and preferably one that fits inside those Tupperware sandwich containers. The Panasonic is just a bit too long in one dimension but can easily be trimmed down.) 2) 1lb loaf pan (or a 1.5lb loaf provided you can still make recipes for 1lb'ers in the larger pans - we're only 2 people) 3) variable crust color settings 4) whole wheat mode (ie. direct drive like the Panasonic) 5) dough mode 6) timer 7) cooling mechanism (According to Panasonic's Customer Service, you must take the loaf out when the baking cycle has completed otherwise suffer the consequences. I want the flexibility of not having to take the bread out of the machine to cool provided the engineering on these mechanisms is sound.) 8) quiet (don't want to hear it in the next room) 9) under $200 10) decent track record in terms of longevity and durability Does such a machine exist or should I keep the Panasonic? Thanks!! Vida Jakabhazy vida@crsa.bu.edu ------------------------------ End of Bread Digest V6 #11 ****************************** Bread Digest Wed, 22 Mar 1995 Volume 6 : Issue 12 Today's Topics: BREAD Digest V6 #11 (4 msgs) Helpful Hint pizza crust ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 13 Mar 1995 15:10:08 -0500 (EST) From: Elizabeth Schwartz Subject: Re: BREAD Digest V6 #11 Message-ID: <199503132010.AA06351@eris.cs.umb.edu> One comment on size of loaves: With homemade bread, and our slicing skills, we seem to get about 8 large slices of bread out of a LARGE loaf. With 100 whole wheat flour, the loaf is not much longer than a cube. The two of us go through a large (2-lb?) loaf every other day, just having two slices for breakfast each. So, you might not really need the smaller size loaf. Betsy (anyone have any clever slicing tips?) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Mar 1995 22:51:06 -0500 From: Cdluria@aol.com Subject: Re: BREAD Digest V6 #11 Message-ID: <950313224903_48693832@aol.com> In response to Vida Jakabhazy's query, we have had very good luck with the TRILLIUM bread machine which was top-rated by Consumers Reports in its March, 1993 review. It meets all of her criteria with the possible exceptio of 'noise'. We can hear it in the next room. Its list price is still $200, but we had to call numerous stores to find one that handled the brand. The department store chain, J.B. White, carries the unit. The machine does have a one-hour cool-down cycle which kicks in automatically if you don't remove the bread at the signal, but the manufacturer advises that it is best to remove the bread and cool it on a rack. We have used the machine extensively and have had very few failures. We weigh the flour rather than measuring it, using the King Arthur Flour Co.'s standard of 4 ozs. per cup. Per recommendation of The Ultimate Bread Machine Cookbook (Tom Lacalamita, Simon & Schuster, 1993), we often substitute 1 tsp. of fresh lemon juice for an equal quantity of water as it allegedly enhances the gluten without changing the flavor. While the manufacturer provides a sampling of recipes with his machine, we have found the above-cited cookboook as well as Donna Rathnell German's paperback, "The Bread Machine Cookbook" (Bristol Publishing, Box 1737, San Leandro, CA 94577) to be two good sources of reliable recipes. Hope this will be of help. cdluria@aol.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Mar 1995 23:38:04 -0800 From: flash@well.com (flash gordon md) Subject: Re: BREAD Digest V6 #11 Message-ID: <199503140738.XAA12704@well.sf.ca.us> i just found that rubbermaid makes a "servin' saver 7" that holds 21 cups, or 5 liters. it's the perfect shape for the bread that comes from my old d.a.k. machine (which i believe is similar to the welbilt). well worth the 6 bucks to keep my bread from going bad. and i'd like to echo a previous poster's advice about not blindly following recipes. i *always* make it a point to add maybe 90% of the recommended water after starting the cycle, and then waiting a few minutes to check consistency. since i've started to do this, i've yet to produce a hockey puck. %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% in theory, there's no difference between theory and practice, but in practice, there is. flash gordon, m.d., f.a.c.e.p. http://www.well.com/www/flash flash@well.com / flash@toad.com / flash@sirius.com / flashg@itsa.ucsf.edu ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Mar 1995 14:44:00 -0600 From: laura.brito@llpb.com (Laura Brito) Subject: BREAD Digest V6 #11 Message-ID: <1f8.45101.499@llpb.com> B > Here's a dialogue with Bob Jones that resulted from his posted message. He B > felt that it should be posted to the list (thanks Bob!): B > B > B > Hi Janet, B > B > >Hope my netiquette is okay, since this is my first try at a response via B > >e-mail. I was intrigued by your posting to the bread digest about the B > >problem with your Hitachi breadmaker, and would love to post this answer B > >to the Digest and see who else responds, but I haven't a clue how to do B > >that without you receiving a copy of the whole Digest! But I will B > >learn... :^). B > > B > B > >My Hitachi worked fine for about 2 months, then began doing the same B > >thing yours is doing. Previous phone contact with Hitachi in the U.S. B > >resulted B > >in a courteous, helpful, cooperative, consumer-oriented response, and on an B > >800 number yet. Unfortunately, when they found out I was calling from B > >Canada, they told me I'd have to deal with their Montreal people. No 800 B > >number, and a very rude response that boiled down to "tough, that's not B > >our problem, talk to whoever sold the machine to you". Needless to say, I B > >haven't bothered to contact Hitachi about the 'bread hockey pucks' B > >problem I share with you. I too tried many yeasts and flours and B > >variations with no luck--it is a machine malfunction we're dealing with here. I have a Hitachi machine also, it is a really good solid machine, the problem you are talking about doesn't seem to happen with mine, I have to say that it bakes the best bread I have had from a bread machine! B > I did call their 800 number several months ago and really didn't get much B > satisfaction. They offered help like "did you use the exact ingredients in B > the handbook?" Not much help really. Exact and room temperature ingredients are very important, I have found this out from over a year with my Hitachi....a friend has another brand and has came to the same conclusion... B > >So last week we went back to the store we bought the machine at, and when B > >I said that I wanted to speak to them about a problem with a bread B > >machine, the clerk said immediately, "Is it a Hitachi?". Apparently they B > >were getting an unreasonably large percentage of Hitachi machines being B > >returned, and they had no hesitation about refunding our money even B > >though we'd had the machine for about 4 months by then. To bad to return a good machine like that...but at least they were polite... B > This really baffles me. Really all a bread machine does is stir and heat. I B > can see it stir and I know it heats because it bakes. If fact I know it B > heats OK because the bread rises OK. When it goes into bake mode, that is B > just a high heat cycle like an oven. I can't see how the bread machine could B > be at fault. Did they give you any ideas about the failure mechanism? Even if you have a couple of tablespoons to much flour can kill a loaf, to not enough flour...you have to really be exact (probably you know this...sorry if I am going overboard...) B > >We use our bread machine constantly and really miss it, after 10 years of B > >making bread the old fashioned way every 2 weeks; but we're reluctant to B > >try Hitachi again. Unfortunately, the selection here is meagre; and we B > >would have to buy a machine without many of the features we enjoyed with B > >the Hitachi if we change brands. For the time, we remain in limbo, B > >gathering info on other brands and hoping the local selection will improve. B > > B > >Can you let me know what happens in your case? I assume you'll have to B > >deal with Hitachi since you've had your machine 2 yrs. Best of luck to you!! B > B > I will let you know if I ever resolve the mystery. I haven't ever tried dough enhancer with my machine, I have been tempted, but I have about 5 bread machine books and about 2 inches of internet bread recipes that I use regularly...and they all come out excellent... I have done some dough only recipes and I have to say that it is heaven on earth to eat some Orange Cinnamon Rolls that I have a recipe to....I invented a orange cream cheese topping, and believe me, they are gone in about 10 minutes...all 20 rolls...hehehe just delicious! Don't get down, you will figure it out, are you cleaning the container very well? it is imperitive that there is nothing left in it, the paddle has to be taken out and cleaned well, and the best advice I can give you is to make sure you have the stuff at room temperture, and that it is very fresh stuff, and that you measure it very exacting...besides that, be sure to use Bread Flour! Not regular (it will work, but it isn't the same ) Hope I helped you alittle....I hope so... __ __ / \./ \/\_ Laura Brito Sysop of Laura's Lair Premium Board __{^\_ _}_ ) }/^\ Internet laura.brito@llpb.com Fax-417-683-6187 / /\_/^\._}_/ // / Voice417-683-6196 FIDO1:284/63 BBS417-683-5534 ( (__{(@)}\__}.//_/__________________________________________ \__/{/(_)\_} )\\ \\---------------------------------------- ( (__)_)_/ )\ \> Administrator-ThrobNet Adult Net - Where Adults \__/ \__/\/\/ 12 Lines-19 Gigs-5 Women Sysops! - Cum to Play! \__,--' * Chelle: I've got a tight ass! --- ~ RoseReader 2.52a P004051 Entered at [LAURA'S LAIR] ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Mar 1995 13:14:24 -0800 (PST) From: "Walter W. Doren" Subject: Helpful Hint Message-ID: Rogers Flour, here in Canada, has a suggestion on the back of their bread flour bags that seems to work for me. Add one tablespoon of fresh lemon juice to your liquid, and it seems to improve the natural rising action The whole loaf seems to come out better! Wally Doren wdoren@freenet.vancouver.bc.ca ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Mar 1995 11:14:02 -0400 (EDT) From: CURTISK@NKU.EDU Subject: pizza crust Message-ID: <01HNYVW5OZDA9GWZ9V@NKU.EDU> I tried to make pizza crust. I even spent a bundle for the pan. But when I tried to roll it out it wouldn't give. I did everything the recipe said to do but it seemed to have a memory of it's own and wouldn't stretch out. Can anyone help me. Also I really would appreciate a recipe for hot dog and hamburger buns. I would like to note here that I made a normal loaf of bread in my machine the other day. When I finished I wound up with what appeared to be cornbread crumbs. After careful reflection I think I know what happened to my bread. I had been to the store to buy milk. I noticed that 1% acidopholous milk was the same price as skim milk. I decided oh well I can live with the 1% fat content and acidopholous milk is good for you. I used it in my bread and I think the cultures must have counteracted the yeast. Did anyone ever hear of this. In case you aren't familiar with acidopholous, this is the good bacteria that is in yogurt. It's great in your body because it eats the bad bacteria. Thanks, Mary Curtis ------------------------------ End of Bread Digest V6 #12 ****************************** Bread Digest Tue, 28 Mar 1995 Volume 6 : Issue 13 Today's Topics: BREAD Digest V6 #12 -Reply Bread slicers? Hot Dog and Hamburger buns pizza crust (LONG) pizza reply Please Help! question about loaf shaping Slicing Bread Slicing tips Slicing tips and etc... three responses to Bread Digest V6.12 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 23 Mar 1995 09:25:04 -0600 From: Marie Bays Subject: BREAD Digest V6 #12 -Reply Message-ID: can we please have the recipe for the orange cinammon rolls?? ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Mar 1995 15:36:21 -0500 (EST) From: Elizabeth Schwartz Subject: Bread slicers? Message-ID: <199503222036.AA14477@eris.cs.umb.edu> We're making a lot of dense whole wheat bread, and enjoying it, but we're not eating as much of it as we ate of the store-bought bread because slicing it is such a chore (and messy, too!) I think it would be worth our while to invest in a serious slicing appliance. Does anyone have any suggestions, and do you know any vendors? What is the state-of-the-art in bread slicing technology? I'm picturing some sort of box with slicing guides, or some sort of electric slicer... thanks Betsy ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Mar 1995 21:10:05 -0800 (PST) From: Susan Battle Subject: Hot Dog and Hamburger buns Message-ID: Someone recently asked for a recipe for hot dog and hamburger buns. This is the one that I use and really enjoy. It's not from any one book. It's a compilation that works best for me. I like baking with whole grains, so most of my recipes I change to a 2 whole grains to 1 unbleached white flour mixture. I have a DAK, so you may need to use less water if you have another brand. 1 Tbsp. yeast 1 Tbsp. sugar 1 1/2 tsp. salt 2 c. whole wheat flour 1 c. unbleached white flour 1 egg 2 Tbsp. oil 1 1/4 c. water I set my machine for white manual. When it beeps at completion I sometimes let it sit for a little while. But I usually just take the whole thing out and divide into 8 pieces. Then shape into whatever shape you want. Place buns on a slightly greased baking sheet. Cover and let rise until approximately double. Bake at 450 for 10 minutes, then lower temperature to 350 and bake for another 10 minutes. Before baking you can sprinkle sesame or poppy seeds on top. These are tasty. Enjoy, Susan ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Mar 95 13:50:54 TZ From: Greg Fonda Subject: Re: pizza crust (LONG) Message-ID: <9503222328.AA15900@netmail2.microsoft.com> 1234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890 234567890 | From: CURTISK@NKU.EDU | | I tried to make pizza crust. I even spent a bundle for the pan. But when I | tried to roll it out it wouldn't give. I did everything the recipe said to | do but it seemed to have a memory of it's own and wouldn't stretch out. Can | anyone help me. I had this exact same problem...so I sent out some mail to a local alias asking the same question...here is a stellar responce I got from Robert Reichel. --------------------------------------------------- I worked in a pizzaria in New York during High School, and this is how we did it there. I make pizza about once a month. What usually messes people up is that their dough is not round to begin with, and is not of uniform density throughout. If the dough is not uniformly dense, you end up with it stretching easier in some directions than others, and you end up with a lot of holes and thin spots. Not good. The key to success is a procedure called (amazingly enough) "rounding" the dough. I do this after the first rise, when I divide my large dough up into two individual doughs (my pizzas are always born in pairs, it's easier that way and you have a backup in case you mess one up). So you take your dough out of its warm place and dump it on the counter and pat off all the excess olive oil. It will have a rough texture from the gasses that have built up, and it will be puffy. Punch it down on the counter to get all the gas out of it, and divide it in half. Use a scale, and if one is too big, just cut a little piece off and jam it into the cut part of the other piece. Your goal is to try to keep the outside surface of the dough intact and smooth, so you don't want to stick random pieces of dough to it. Push the dough down on the counter and incorporate any little pieces you've glued on to bring it up to weight. Then, keeping the outside surface up at all times, gently fold the dough over on itself in a downward direction. Pretend your stroking the top of an upright mushroom, with the heel of your hand at the very top and your fingers pointing down. As you stroke, the gluten sheet at the top will stretch and relax. Curve the stuff that comes down with your fingers like you're shoving it up into the base of the mushroom. Rotate 45 degrees and repeat, being careful not to tear the gluten sheet. So it's pull/shove/rotate/pull. Once you've gone around a few times and the dough is a nice tight little ball, scrunch the bottom together into a sort of nipple shape, so that it holds together. If it doesn't hold together, your dough is too oily, pat some off and try again. What you should end up with is a nice firm ball of dough with a round top and a slightly flat bottom that doesn't unravel when you put it on the counter. Let it sit for a couple of minutes, and then oil a small bowl, plop the dough top down into the bowl so the top gets oily, then flip it over so the bottom gets oily, and then with the flat part of your fingers push the dough ball down into the bottom of the bowl so it's like a pancake. Cover with saran wrap and allow to rise. By the way, the only cookbook I've seen that describes this procedure well is "The Italian Baker" by Carol Field. Excellent book, highly recommended. When you're ready to make the 'za, dump the dough out onto a floured surface and pat off the olive oil. Push it down into a pancake and flour both sides. It should be perfectly round at this point. The trick is to keep it that way. Push it down with the flat of your hand like the hands of a clock, keeping it round as you go in circles. It will spread out as much as it can this way, and should remain circular if your surface is will floured (don't be afraid of too much flour at this point, you can always bang it off later). Cup your left hand around the edge of the dough so that your little finger is parallel to the edge, and with the fingertips of your right hand push down into the edge making a trench about 1/2" from the edge. This will be your crust. Go all the way around as evenly as possible. Pick the dough up by this trench and put your fists under the dough so that it's hanging on the knuckles of the back of your hands. Pull you hands ever so gently apart, and inch or two at most. This, combined with the weight of the dough, will cause it to stretch. Give the dough a little toss clockwise and do the same thing. Here again it helps if everything is well floured. Pull, flip, pull, flip, very gently. It helps to have a light source in back of you so you can see thin spots developing. Avoid holes, stay away from thin spots if you can. Once it's to the size you want, flop it down on your peel or screen or pan and tug it into shape. If you've done everything uniformly around the circumference of the dough, you should have a perfectly round pizza with about the thickness of a bedsheet. Once you get good at it this all takes about 20 seconds start to finish. Flipping pizza is a good show, but in my opinion doesn't do much, so don't worry about it. It's not hard, but you occasionally tear a dough, so unless you really trust your dough I wouldn't advise it. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Mar 1995 21:38:40 -0400 (EDT) From: CURTISK@NKU.EDU Subject: pizza reply Message-ID: <01HOHNKR4DHU9LVFBP@NKU.EDU> Pete suggested that I warm the dough for the pizza before trying to roll it. He mentioned warming it in the microwave. Wouldn't this mess up the rising process. Next question, I like rolls and bread that are really yeasty. Would it hurt to use twice as much yeast to get what I want? I recently ate someone's rolls that were not made in the bread machine, and she said that she had a recipe that only took 2 hours overall from start to finish, and she used two envelopes of yeast. I suppose on my bread machine I would have to use the rapid rising cycle, but could I use the regular cycle and get that great taste? Mary Curtis ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Mar 1995 14:30:04 -0500 From: vida@crsa.bu.edu (Vida Jakabhazy) Subject: Please Help! Message-ID: <199503221930.OAA10485@crsa.bu.edu> While researching which bread machine to purchase, I was lent the recipe booklet to the DAK R2D2-like machine by a dear friend. Unfortunately, my car was broken into the other night and my bag stolen along with the booklet. I feel just terrible about it and would like to find out if anyone who has moved on from their DAK to another machine would mind either xeroxing the recipe booklet (I will gladly compensate him or her for time and expenses) or send/sell me their old copy. It won't replace all the notes and splatters in the margins of her original copy, but it would sure make me feel a lot less guilty about the whole affair. (I feel so much worse about the loss of that booklet than my cd discman which was also taken.) Any help would be enormously appreciated!!! Thanks, Vida Jakabhazy vida@crsa.bu.edu ------------------------------ Date: 24 Mar 1995 09:32:58 -0600 From: "Beverly Bradley" Subject: question about loaf shaping Message-ID: <199503241618.IAA08166@netcomsv.netcom.com> question about loaf shaping Recently, there have been several magazine articles about specialty breads , but they seem to include only 'ingredient and mixing' recipes, and not shaping instructions . . . My mother taught me to bake, but we always used loaf pans. Can anyone explain to me how to shape a round loaf of bread ? How do you best achieve a round shape ? How do you prevent a big hollow hole in the middle ? How big a loaf can you make ? (in other words, do I use the equivalent of a loaf pan, or does one loaf pan of dough equate to two round loaves ?) Do you have to use more flour, and make a stiffer dough, to keep it from oozing down into a pancake ? Any advice will be welcomed. . . Thank you. Beverly Bradley ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Mar 1995 11:13:00 -0500 From: aa122@detroit.freenet.org (John F Davis) Subject: Re: Slicing Bread Message-ID: <199503231613.LAA15124@detroit.freenet.org> Betsy Said: >(anyone have any clever slicing tips?) Well I have but two methods I use to slice my loaves from my 1 lb box.. 1: I have a "Fiddlebow" bread knife. This is a special knife Well I'll draw =================================== <--Handel part I____________________I <--Blade part This is viewed from the cuttting edge and is not to scale As you can see the blade forms a "Bow" like a fiddle bow. With the wood handel Since the blade and the handel are PARRELLEL (not "In line" as is "normal") the handel forms a sliceing guide. I get rather good results with this. 2: I use a "Meat Slicer". Mine is a "Hand crank" unit I got at a used store for a good price but it's the good old "Spinning wheel" type slicer like the stores use to slice cheese and lunchmeat. Works well for bread too. And I love fresh bread :) -- John F Davis In Delightful Detroit, Mi. aa122@detroit.freenet.org ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Mar 95 11:01:00 PST From: "Coop, Carolyn A." Subject: Slicing tips Message-ID: <2F71C642@msmail.genicom.com> Okay, here are some suggestions IMHO for easier, neater slicing of homemade bread. Bread slices best when it's cool. A serrated blade is neater than a plain knife and, finally, a *montana* knife works best of all. (Refer to a Williams-Sonoma or Chef's catalog to see what one looks like -- It's basically a "hacksaw" shape with the serrated blade turned to the *side* of the hacksaw.) Now, having said that I'm sure that there are people out there saying to themselves "I didn't make homemade bread just so I could wait till it was cold to slice!" and I agree with you. At our house we only eat bread that we've baked. (If it ain't made at home, it ain't eaten there!) For this reason I make several different types of bread each week: I have a rather plain recipe that I like to use for everyday sandwiches, another dough I use for pecan cinnamon rolls and many other recipes for specialty breads that I use for *hot* breads and special menus. When serving hot bread I still let it cool slightly unless it's something that will be attractive served in torn hunks. It also seems easier to me to slice the loaf down the middle lengthwise first. Then I'm only slicing through half as much doughy middle and the pieces look nicer. The plain recipe follows. I'm sure you all have a similar recipe but this one works *great* for us and allows variation when we want a little something different for our sandwiches. * Exported from MasterCook II * Sandwich Bread Recipe By : Serving Size : 20 Preparation Time :0:00 Categories : Breads Amount Measure Ingredient -- Preparation Method -------- ------------ -------------------------------- 1 1/2 teaspoons active dry yeast 2 1/4 cups bread flour -- divided 1 tablespoon nonfat dry milk powder 2 tablespoons gluten 2 tablespoons powdered whey -- optional 1 teaspoon salt 1 tablespoon butter, margarine or shortening 1 egg 3/4 cup warm water Place ingredients in ABM in order given (or reverse if necessary so liquids are added first). I put the egg in the bottom of a measuring cup and add warm water to equal 3/4 cup. I add more water, if necessary, by tablespoon as the machine starts to mix. Set machine for Normal or Manual setting. I confess that since this is used primarily for sandwiches and my machine makes round loaves, I generally use the Manual setting. To do this, take the dough from the machine when it beeps and quickly form into a log shape. This goes into a large loaf pan covered with a towel and doubles in size in about 45-60 minutes. Bake at 350 degrees for 30 minutes. Cool on rack. This makes excellent plain bread for sandwiches. I vary the recipe by substituting whole wheat flour for up to 1 cup of the bread flour and have also tried using oat flour or finely ground oatmeal in place of 1/2 cup of bread flour. 1/4 cup of wheat germ in lieu of same amount bread flour is another additive that works well. - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - If making this bread in my Welbilt ABM I remove it immediately, place on rack and cover with a towel to let cool. (Covering with a towel while still hot helps the crust stay chewy instead of making it crispy. IMHO, this is desirable for sandwich bread.) Then, when completely cool, I slice the loaf in half, lengthwise, and store in a plastic container. I have more success slicing halfmoon slices than I do with full circles. Use a montana knife to slice when ready to eat. For the traditional loaf, I cool the same way after removing from oven. Store in plasticware until ready to serve and then slice by placing the loaf on its *side* on the cutting board and using the montana knife. I find it easier to slice even, measured slices using the flat side of the loaf as the "top". Of course, when done I *turn* the slice around and it looks normal again ;-)). ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Mar 1995 22:09:05 -0500 (EST) From: -sin(1/x) Subject: Re: Slicing tips and etc... Message-ID: <199503230309.WAA26072@copper.ucs.indiana.edu> > Betsy > (anyone have any clever slicing tips?) I bought something called a Montana Bread Knife. It has an adjustable guard on one side of the blade to keep the cut even and it works really well. I also bought a Crumb Box. It has a removable wooden grated top and a bottom to catch the crumbs. They each cost $26 from Williams-Sonoma, and they work. In addition, I bought one of those plastic bread boxes (WS has them, but I got mine at Kroger for $11). I was skeptical, but the box works well. FINALLY, I got a measuring beaker from WS that is made of plastic and holds up to 2 cups. It has different measuring scales all around it -- making conversion a cinch. Works a helluva lot better than the 1 cup plastic thing I got with my Hitachi... -- Brian http://silver.ucs.indiana.edu/~brianh The Internet: Your old grade school home room. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Mar 1995 08:24:23 -0500 From: Valerie Mates Subject: three responses to Bread Digest V6.12 Message-ID: <199503231324.IAA26037@grex.cyberspace.org> In Bread Digest V6 #12, Elizabeth Schwartz asked if anybody had clever bread-slicing tips. The best thing I ever did for my bread-slicing was to buy a big knife. I'd been using steak knives or dinner knives to cut bread, and often I'd end up with squished, feathered, messy slices of bread. A big bread knife (of the cheap variety) can cut all the way across the loaf at once, which makes much neater slices. Laura Brito says that using exact amounts of room temperature ingredients is very important for her Hitatchi. Interesting... my Welbilt (until it died) consistently made good bread with ingredients that mostly came right out of the fridge and weren't measured terribly carefully. Maybe the cold ingredients didn't matter because it has two kneading cycles, with a rising time in between, which lets the dough come up to room temperature. (Does the Hitachi do that?) And maybe the imprecise measuring didn't matter because I generally checked the consistency of the bread as it's kneading and add liquid or flour until it looks right. And Mary Curtis reports she has had trouble rolling out pizza dough and getting it to stay flat and pizza-shaped. I'm not a terribly huge fan of pizza so I've only made it in my bread maker once or twice, but it's worked OK for me. A number of books say that if you let the dough rise for the full amount of time, it will be stubbornly resistant to being rolled into a pizza shape. My Welbilt came with instructions to take out the dough after the first kneading and let the dough rise in a bowl -- entirely skipping the second kneading and rising cycles. Valerie Mates popcorn@cyberspace.org ------------------------------ End of Bread Digest V6 #13 ****************************** Bread Digest Wed, 5 Apr 1995 Volume 6 : Issue 14 Today's Topics: Baking Stones BREAD Digest V6 #12 BREAD Digest V6 #13 (2 msgs) BREAD Digest V6 #13 -Reply King Arthur bakers catalogue knives Request - Easter Bread (Bootka (sp?)) Room temp ingredients Slicing Bread slicing tip ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 4 Apr 1995 23:39:56 -0400 From: ai379@detroit.freenet.org (Howard Lawson) Subject: Baking Stones Message-ID: <199504050339.XAA14570@detroit.freenet.org> We have a baking stone but have never used. Will someone please comment on how to use it. Specifically: l. How to shape the loaf 2. How long and at what temperature to preheat the stone 3. How long and at what temperature to bake the loaves (2) We are baking a plain white bread made with a combination of milk and water. Thanks a lot. Howard(for Howard and Sue) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Mar 95 10:06 PST From: mary_white@sunshine.net (Mary White) Subject: Re: BREAD Digest V6 #12 Message-ID: This is in reply to Laura's reply to Bob about problems with his Hitachi: ----------------------------- >Exact and room temperature ingredients are very important, I have >found this out from over a year with my Hitachi....a friend has >another brand and has came to the same conclusion... I have had my Hitachi for nearly 2 years and I'm still very happy with it, no problems whatever. I don't worry about temperature, but 90% of the time I used the timer overnight, so by the time the process starts the ingredients are er two slices the hole is gone. I also like to Zo very much. I bake worry about it and have had no problems. It's probably true of all bread machines that it's not safe to improvise. My only failures have been when putting together a loaf late at night and too tired to bother with a recipe. Once I forgot to put in the yeast! I only get creative if I'm going to be there when the kneading starts and can check on the flour/liquid proportions. > >Don't get down, you will figure it out, are you cleaning the container >very well? it is imperitive that there is nothing left in it, the >paddle has to be taken out and cleaned well, and the best advice I can >give you is to make sure you have the stuff at room temperture, and >that it is very fresh stuff, and that you measure it very >exacting...besides that, be sure to use Bread Flour! Not regular (it >will work, but it isn't the same ) I think there's really something wrong with Bob's machine. I rarely clean the container of my Hitachi, just dust out the dry leftovers, and never clean the paddle because it's been stuck in for 6 months. I notice very little difference between bread flour and whatever's on sale. And make excellent bread. Oops, it's Friday, pizza night, time to start the dough right now! Mary White ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Mar 1995 07:04:11 -0800 (PST) From: jfmorgan@netcom.com (Jim Morgan) Subject: Re: BREAD Digest V6 #13 Message-ID: <199503291504.HAA18296@netcom2.netcom.com> hello from northern virginia. i have a dak r2d2 bread maker--which i love and have had no problem after years of use--but the reason for this note is to answer Vita (or Vida) in which she said she would like a copy of dak's recipe book because hers (her friend's) was stolen. i woudl gladly xerox off my booklet for her but the question of the moment is how to get this sent?? please reply. {marlene} :) jfmorgan@netcom.com> > > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 04 Apr 1995 18:06:00 -0600 From: laura.brito@llpb.com (Laura Brito) Subject: BREAD Digest V6 #13 Message-ID: <1f8.47033.499@llpb.com> B > The best thing I ever did for my bread-slicing was to buy a big knife. B > I'd been using steak knives or dinner knives to cut bread, and often B > I'd end up with squished, feathered, messy slices of bread. A big bread B > knife (of the cheap variety) can cut all the way across the loaf at B > once, which makes much neater slices. I found a really excellent item, at Walmart (only thing I can go to around here ) I bought an electric knife with a holder for the bread that will make slices of bread that are exact and uniform! really super, expensive though at $30 B > Laura Brito says that using exact amounts of room temperature ingredients B > is very important for her Hitatchi. B > B > Interesting... my Welbilt (until it died) consistently made good bread B > with ingredients that mostly came right out of the fridge and weren't B > measured terribly carefully. Maybe the cold ingredients didn't matter B > because it has two kneading cycles, with a rising time in between, which B > lets the dough come up to room temperature. (Does the Hitachi do that?) B > And maybe the imprecise measuring didn't matter because I generally B > checked the consistency of the bread as it's kneading and add liquid or B > flour until it looks right. I have found that it will mix better if room temp, I don't think that the exact ingredients will bother the loaf as much, but the Hitachi also has the two kneading cycles and a rising time in between...maybe it isn't as warm? I guess that could be it? Checking is important and alot of people don't check (at I think so hehe) boy do I sound opinionated! hehe Laura Brito ____ ___ __----__ _/\ Fido 1:284/63 Sysop of _/^ __ ^\_ /~^_/ | 15 )/^ ^-^ _/ Voice 417-683-6196 Laura's_/^ _/^ ^\_ ^\ | ./ /~Lines /( _/\. Fax 417-683-6187 Lair _/^_/^--_ ^\_^\-__-~ _/( \ _/ ./ BBS 417-683-5534 BBS./^_/| \_ ~\ 19 \_^\_ /^ _( ~-_ _/ \./\ Administrator of _/^_/ \_ ~\ \ Gigs ^\__^\../^_/^ )\ ~~~~ _\/ ThrobNet Adult <__/ ~\__\| ^\.__./^ ~---____--~~\ laura.brito@llpb.com * Izzy: You can watch TV at 3 am, no one else is watching it then! --- ~ RoseReader 2.52a P004051 Entered at [LAURA'S LAIR] ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Mar 1995 09:06:50 -0600 From: Marie Bays Subject: BREAD Digest V6 #13 -Reply Message-ID: I have a DAK breadmaker if you would like a copy of my manual. I don't know what model it is except that it is the II advanced? model. ------------------------------ Date: 02 Apr 95 09:19:44 EDT From: Larry and Jenny Hutchi <74444.3462@compuserve.com> Subject: King Arthur bakers catalogue Message-ID: <950402131944_74444.3462_EHH46-2@CompuServe.COM> Does anyone have the address for the King Arthur (sorry if I'm spelling it wrong) bakers catalogue? I have been trying for years to make really good bagels and have been told the flour from here will do the trick. Thanks for any info. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Mar 1995 21:48:39 -0400 (EDT) From: CURTISK@NKU.EDU Subject: knives Message-ID: <01HOONAEDYLU9N4539@NKU.EDU> The rule for cooling bread works fine. Put it on a rack for at least 15 minutes to a half hour to firm up--no it won't be cold. I went to the restaurant supply place on Second Street and bought a commercial bread slicing knife for $9.00--no more William Sonoma for me. I love a good restaurant supply house. If you don't do anything else for yourself, locate one of these. They are learning to appreciate individual customers, and are happy to sell you one or two items. I love my knife so much that when I take bread to people's houses I take my own knife along because I know that it will always slice perfectly. It is serrated that is correct, but a tiny bit rounded. If you can't find one of these shops near your home then ask your butcher to help you find a place for a good knife. You need to ask a small butcher shop because they will be happy to give you a source. If worse comes to worse, I can give you the name of a company that deals in my knife that will ship to you UPS. No I have no interest in the company. When I bought my breadmaker it came with a Tupperware bread box. It is perfect for storing bread that keeps all week. If you don't know anyone who sells this stuff (I don't) I'm sure all you have to do is call 800 information and they can give you the Tupperware number. They will ship you one of these perfect bread storers. Mary Curtis ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Apr 1995 07:34:49 -0500 (CDT) From: jaws@brazos.cray.com (Jim Wheeler) Subject: Request - Easter Bread (Bootka (sp?)) Message-ID: <9504031234.AA00284@aransas.cray.com> Hi - I remember my paternal grandmother making an Easter bread she called "Bootka Bread." I believe it had Slovak origins. As I remember, it was sweet, had almonds, white raisins. Anybody know of such a bread, and maybe have a recipe for it? -- jaws@cray.com J.A. Wheeler (713)-297-7834 FAX-(713)-968-1620 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Mar 1995 08:45:47 -0500 (EST) From: kla@karen.webo.dg.com (Karen Plaskon) Subject: Room temp ingredients Message-ID: <9503291345.AA13871@karen.webo.dg.com> We've had some discussions here about using room temp ingredients. I've always used my ingredients straight out of the fridge, but, sometimes my loaves don't come out as well as I'd like. What I started doing is putting everything in the machine, then just setting the timer so it waits awhile (15mins - 1/2 hour) before starting. That way, all of the ingredients have some time to warm up before the machine actually starts. -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Karen L. Plaskon (karen_plaskon@dg.com) Data General Corp., Enterprise Solutions Engineering ----------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Mar 1995 11:30:49 EST From: "Zoe: Coombs" Subject: Re: Slicing Bread Message-ID: <0098E151.018DF1E0.219@bigvax.alfred.edu> Funny that the topic just came up now :-) I was visiting my mother in Florida a week ago and she had just acquired a Presto slicer with Presto electric (serrated blades) knife. I was so impressed with it that I ordered one too and I used it for the first time last weekend (on a dense rye bread). Wonderful! It's billed as being especially for bread machine breads (my mother has a DAK, mine is a Mister Loaf because I couldn't replace my DAK). The thing is a u-shaped cradle that you put the bread into and it has slots all along that you put the knife into. The knife, of course, can also be used on other things (that's how I justified the expense to myself). And you can slice the bread while it is still warm! .. Zoe coombs@bigvax.alfred.edu ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Mar 1995 08:45:36 EST From: tvasicek@watson.princeton.edu Subject: slicing tip Message-ID: <0098E203.1728CDBA.11@watson.princeton.edu> We got a Presto Bread Slicing guide for Christmas last year from my wonderful Sister-In-Law Sue. We love the guide; it perfectly fits the HUGE loaves from our DAK TurboBaker IV. The Presto slicer is just a big cradle with fingers that reach up both sides of the loaf. It has rubber feet to keep it from sliding around on the counter. You simply slice in between the fingers, and there you have it! A long bread knife works best, but we use a regular sized bread knife routinely. We were very suspicious of this contraption at first. The guide is a huge, space-consuming plastic contraption that seemed sure to do little more than scatter crumbs all over the kitchen. It does scatter crumbs (putting it on newspaper or a towell makes it slide around to much -- defeating the nice rubber feet) and it occupies about as much space as a food processor, but we like it just the same. ------------------------------ End of Bread Digest V6 #14 ****************************** Bread Digest Tue, 11 Apr 1995 Volume 6 : Issue 15 Today's Topics: amish friendship bread Baking stones BREAD Digest V6 #14 (2 msgs) Bread knives bread machine blues Bread Stone How-To Easter Bread Fleischmann's Yeast cookbook Garlic Parmesan Bread (ABM) Recipe Hitachi machines Is DAK still in business Lost manual More slicing tips Raisin Paska Bread Room Temp Slicing/DAK/Temps/..?.. slicing bread Thanks for DAK booklet help! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 7 Apr 1995 10:27:24 EDT From: Subject: amish friendship bread Message-ID: <2E55CC31788@wvuohsr.hsc.wvu.edu> Hello all... I am new to the list so if this has been covered before...sorry. Does anyone know whether the starter for Amish friendship bread will stay vital if frozen? I'll appreciate any help...and recipes you may have come up with for the starter. I use it mostly with fruits & nuts, but friends have had good results using it as the basis of savory breads too. Thanks....Alex Alex Lubman PO Box 9145 Office of Health Services Research West Virginia University Morgantown, WV 26506 email alex@wvuohsr.hsc.wvu.edu ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 06 Apr 1995 10:43:07 -0500 (EST) From: 00prneubauer@bsuvc.bsu.edu Subject: Re: Baking stones Message-ID: <01HP0HLQD4EA8ZKF0J@BSUVC.bsu.edu> Howard Lawson wrote: >We have a baking stone but have never used. Will someone please >comment on how to use it. Specifically: >l. How to shape the loaf >2. How long and at what temperature to preheat the stone >3. How long and at what temperature to bake the loaves (2) >We are baking a plain white bread made with a combination of >milk and water. Thanks a lot. Howard(for Howard and Sue) As far as shaping the loaf goes, the simplest way to describe without pictures goes like this: Take the (manually or mechanically) already kneaded ball of dough in your two floured hands. Squeeze with your fingers and push toward your hands together toward your fingertips. This stretches the dough on the visible side and sort of folds the dough from the edges toward the center on the side away from you. Rotate the dough ball around the Z axis (like a steering wheel) and repeat the folding/squeezing. Continue for a while. (:-) This technique produces a round loaf. If you would prefer a somewhat longer loaf, then (after you have done a bit of this shaping/kneading technique) just forgo some of the rotation for a while. Turn the ends under so that you don't have open ends. Pinch together any of the bottom that appears to be loose so that you won't have a big hole at the bottom. Then you can set it somewhere (see below) to rise. I got a stone for Christmas and have been experimenting with it lately. The technique I have come to most recently, which seems to work pretty well for me is to prewarm the oven (at the lowest setting possible) for a few minutes and then leave the oven light on. Then I shape the loa[f,ves], slash the top(s) and let it/them rise on the stone. When I see that it/they are ready to bake I just turn on the oven and bake. I have not really seen that preheating the stone makes all that much difference. I bake the recipe I have been working on most lately at 375 for 35-40 minutes. With 2 loaves, the longer time seems slightly better. Paul ======== Paul Neubauer 00prneubauer@bsu.edu ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Apr 1995 15:45:03 -0400 From: CrissyMA@aol.com Subject: Re: BREAD Digest V6 #14 Message-ID: <950405154459_72855943@aol.com> The King Arthur Flour Baker's Catalogue P.O. Box 876 Norwich, Vermont 05055-0876 Phone: 1-800-827-6836 Chris in Houston ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Apr 1995 13:49:47 -0400 From: CrissyMA@aol.com Subject: Re: BREAD Digest V6 #14 Message-ID: <950406134944_74005721@aol.com> Thought I would post this to the list. Perhaps someone can be of help: Chris Marksberry in Houston The information I am looking for is for a friend who is doing advertising for McGavins, and she needs information to do with new Bread trends, recipes, and any trivia on Bread. If you can help it would really be appreciated, maybe even post it to the Bread Machine Digest and have people eMail me directly. Thanks, --------------------------------------------------------------------- Christine Gerald | UBC Food Group | Email: cgerald@unixg.ubc.ca | "Youth is not a time of life, Manager, Meal Accounts | it is a state of mind." Vancouver, B.C. V6T 1Z2 Canada | Tel: 604-822-5839 | --------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Apr 1995 14:03:00 GMT From: phyllis.johnpoll@ncsl.org (Phyllis Johnpoll) Subject: Bread knives Message-ID: <9504060820135202@ncsl.org> I am almost embarrassed to admit what I use as a bread knife. I went to a home show and got one of those "special deals" from the Ginsu knife people. You know the ones, "two for the price of one and we'll even throw in all these extra knives we couldn't unload anyway"? Well, one of the knives was a butcher knife kind of thing (I don't know the technical terms, but that's what it looked like to me.) I'd never seen a serrated butcher knife before, so when I got home and pulled the fresh loaf out of the DAK, I tried using it to slice the still slightly warm bread. I was pleasantly surprised to find that it sliced the bread as thin as I wanted with minimal loss of structural integrity (I use big words whenever possible - it makes 'em think I know what I'm talking about!) I have discovered that the type of bread that slices best is egg bread (I use the recipe from BREAD MACHINE MAGIC.) And the rye I made from a Krusteaz mix sliced well and tasted good, but barely rose. (In fact, all the Krusteaz mixes I tried had problems of one kind or another. Mostly they tasted nasty, although the french herb mix smelled nice while rising.) I have as yet to get any good results with any of the Sally Lunn recipes I've tried, and my husband keeps begging me to try again because he has such fond memories of it from growing up. Does anyone know of a good one for the bread machine? I tried BREAD MACHINE MAGIC, THE ULTIMATE BREAD MACHINE COOKBOOK and one other (can't remember which.) Is there a trick to this that I am missing? BTW, I haven't seen my DAK cookbook in over a year (never used it in the first place) but since mine was bought used, I never had instructions. If someone would please e-mail me such simple directions as how to use the timer, I'd be grateful. I have managed to get it to work twice but that was sheer luck and I don't have any clue which buttons I pushed in which order. *BB* phyllis ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Apr 95 10:51:37 -0500 From: cbacke@lsumc.edu (Cheryl Backes) Subject: bread machine blues Message-ID: <9504071551.AA05863@unixsrv1.lsumc.edu> I have recently purchased a Breadman Plus (3 months ago). I make (or attempt to make ) bread everyday. I can empathize with the person who reported having many flops with their machine. Even the recipes that come with the Breadman Plus do not work in this machine. I have to stand right by the machine during the mixing/kneading in order to adjust the ingredients. Even then, the loaves rise, then fall during baking. I have contacted the manufacturer on a couple of occasions. They seem to think that I do not have the moisture content correct. I have on occasion made the dough so dry that the loaf does not rise at all. I do live in Louisiana where the humidity is high usually (90% on average); could this affect it? I have varied the types of flour (King Arthur, Gold Medal, Pillsbury) and the types/amounts of yeast, and adding lemon juice, and adding gluten......... I am very frustated. I would never even dream of letting my machine make a loaf by itself (overnight). Does anyone have any suggestions? The person at the manufacturer said that it doesn't take a rocket scientist to make bread in these machines -- why am I having all of these problems? One last question, does anyone know what the difference is with Red Star INstant Active yeast? I bought a pound at the local warehouse and it says to use within 7 days of opening. Can I freeze it? Thanks in advance for any helpful tips. Cheryl ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Apr 1995 15:07:52 -0700 From: lenf@netcom.com (Len Freedman) Subject: Bread Stone How-To Message-ID: <199504052207.PAA08605@netcom5.netcom.com> Howard (for Howard and Sue) wrote: > We have a baking stone but have never used. Will someone please > comment on how to use it. Specifically: > l. How to shape the loaf > 2. How long and at what temperature to preheat the stone > 3. How long and at what temperature to bake the loaves (2) > We are baking a plain white bread made with a combination of > milk and water. Thanks a lot. Howard(for Howard and Sue) We have a stone which we use at least every week, mostly for flatbreads like pizza, foccacia, pitas, and crisp breads like lavosh. I use it less often for _loaves_ of bread, for reasons I'll get to in a minute. When you put fully-risen bread in a pre-heated oven, if everything is working right, the gas bubbles in the bread expand from the heat before the bread begins to harden. This causes the bread to rise that last little bit, maybe 10 or 15%, in the first ten minutes of baking. I find this works best if the oven is just as hot as I can get it when I put the bread in, at least for those first ten minutes or so. Flatbreads cook very quickly, in maybe ten minutes total, so I just turn the oven all the way up to 500 and leave it there! I always heat the oven up with the stone in it. I slide the bread onto the hot stone and slide it off when it's done, then I leave the stone in the oven to cool down. I've never had a problem with bread sticking to the stone! To slide the bread onto the stone, you need a 'peel'. You can get a nice thin wooden paddle made just for this, or use a piece of 1/8" plywood (I use a piece of plywood that used to be the bottom of a drawer). You take about two tablespoons of cornmeal and spread it over the wood, then, after first-rising and punch-down, you shape the dough and put it on the peel. The second rising is done right on the peel, perhaps with a piece of lightly-oiled plastic wrap over the dough to keep it from drying out. When the rising is complete, you take the peel and shake it slightly, making the dough slide around on it a bit to ensure that it's not stuck to the peel. The cornmeal keeps the dough from sticking to the peel. Then you gently slide it off the peel onto the hot stone, using a back- and-forth motion, and begin baking. I used to sprinkle a little cornmeal on the stone too, but it would blacken immediately, and I found it wasn't necessary anyway. Alternatives: Lavosh is sort of like a soda cracker--rolled very flat and not risen a second time. You drape it over the rolling pin and carefully 'unroll' it onto the hot stone. Pitas are rolled thicker and just 'thrown' on the stone by hand. In these cases, cornmeal is not necessary. (By the way, I would encourage anyone to try flatbreads! They're very easy to do and the results are really impressive! I'd be happy to share recipes, techniques, etc.) Now, as to loaves. I have tried to make nice round loaves of bread, but they always come out flat, more like disks than like balls. I can never get dough to rise more than three inches or so. I've heard that it's important to 'pre-stress' the dough before the second rising. For example, to roll it up tightly and seal the edges, then let it rise. This seems to help a little, but by the time the dough is risen, it's all loose again and sags out into a bigger flatter shape than I want. Also, scoring the top of the loaf before baking is supposed to allow the dough to rise vertically rather than sideways. I saw a Julia Child program once where she had the dough rising the second time in a cloth-lined basket. The basket about as high as it was wide. When risen, the dough filled this basket, and then when she dumped it out on the peel, it had sort of grown into shape--it was already roughly spherical and it kept that aspect ratio. I might try that some day. I've never seen one of those baskets in a gourmet store. I'd have to make one. One more thing. You've probably heard this before, but if you want a nice thick chewy crust, you spritz the bread with a sprayer right after you put it in the oven. You use a 'pump' sprayer like the one you use for cleaners like Fantastic or Windex (but get a clean one!) The layer of moisture on on the surface of the dough actually inhibits crust formation in the first few minutes of baking, so you end up with thicker, chewier crust. Commerical ovens for French bread have steam-injectors for this purpose. -- Len Freedman (lenf@netcom.com) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 06 Apr 95 09:48:50 EST From: gunterman@ccmailpc.ctron.com Subject: Easter Bread Message-ID: <9503067971.AA797186930@ccmailpc.ctron.com> To: jaws@cray.com, bread-digest@cykick.infores.com Subject: Easter Bread Here is our family recipie for Easter Bread. it is close to what oyu described except for the almonds(wich you could add) I sometimes throw in some citron. Hope this is what oyu were looking for. * Exported from MasterCook Mac * Babka (Polish Easter Bread) Recipe By : Aliette Ziolkowski (Grandma) Serving Size : 1 Preparation Time :0:00 Categories : Polish Amount Measure Ingredient -- Preparation Method -------- ------------ -------------------------------- 2 cups flour 1/2 cup sugar 1 package yeast 1/2 cup milk 1/2 cup margarine 3 whole eggs -- room temp 1 can raisins, seedless ------------------ 1/2 cup brown sugar -- boiled 1/3 cup water -- boiled 1/4 cup rum -- boiled mix 3/4 cup flour and yeast. combine milk and margarine in a sauce pan till WARM only. and pour into bowl. add remaining DRY ingredients. and Beat for 2 minutes in electric mixer.. add eggs 1 @ a time and up to a 1/2 cup flour to make a thick batter and then beat for an additional 2 minutes. Cover and let rise till doubled. stir in raisins and turn out into a 2 quart greased tube pan. let rise uncovered for 30 minutes. Bake @ 350 for 40 minutes. before removing form pan and while still hot from oven : prick to witha fork and pour rum syrup over cake. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 9 Apr 95 13:18:13 EDT From: Al Sherman Subject: Fleischmann's Yeast cookbook Message-ID: <9504091718.AA29883@hpwalk.an.hp.com> I haven't seen any discussion of the Fleishmann's Yeast "Bread Machine Favorites" cookbook in the digest. My wife ordered it after seeing an ad in the paper. It is excellent. It is a 76 page booklet which contains beautiful photos, a large section of bread baking information and hints, a troubleshooting guide, and more than 60 great recipies. OK, I don't know that all are great, but the few we tried were among the best breads we have made. To make it even more attractive, the cookbook is a bargain! To get a copy, send a check for $2.95 to: Bread Machine Favorites PO Box 5953 Dept A Stacy, MN 55078-5953 Fleishmann's Yeast also has a "Baker's Helpline" at 1-800-777-4959. This is available weekdays between 10 am and 8 pm Eastern time for advice on both bread machine and traditional yeast baking. Enjoy! -Al ------------------------------ Date: 06 Apr 95 04:07:32 -0800 From: Joel.Ehrlich@salata.com (Joel Ehrlich) Subject: Garlic Parmesan Bread (ABM) Recipe Message-ID: <843_9504070900@salata.com> I mentioned the fact that I was tired of poor textured, bad tasting and uninspired garlic breads from my bread machines to many of you a while back. I've been working on the recipe, off-and-on since then. My criteria was simply to develop something which would satisfy me. Well, I think I got there. Here's the way it looks at the moment. Feel free to try it and comment. Incidentally, this recipe is style for the DAK/Welbilt (R2D2) type machines but works equally well on my Zoji. Garlic Parmesan Bread (ABM) No. 3452 Yields 1 Loaf 1 Pkg Active Dry Yeast 2 Tbls Garlic Powder OR 3 1/2 Cups Bread Flour 8 Cloves Garlic, Baked 1/4 Cup Olive Oil 2/3 Cup Parmesan, Grated 2 Tbls Honey 1 1/2 tsp Salt 1/3 Cup Dry Milk Powder 1 Cup Warm Water 1 Tbls Gluten 1 tsp Diastatic Malt Powder All ingredients should be at or above room temperature. If using garlic cloves, peel and bake for 30 minutes at 325 degrees (wrap in aluminum foil for baking.) If using garlic cloves, mash the baked cloves before adding them to the bread machine. Add the ingredients to the pan in the order listed. Select "White Bread". Press "Start". Cool the bread on a rack for at least 1 hour before slicing. Joel ... The Management reserves the right to serve refuse to anyone. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Apr 1995 04:13:02 -0600 (MDT) From: Janet Stout Subject: Hitachi machines Message-ID: This is a lovely group for a newbie like me. I'm finding that computers are even more complex and interesting than bread recipes, though their contents sometimes lack taste. :^) Thanks to Bob, Mary, and Laura for the excellent help and suggestions in the Hitachi dialogue. We tried the works and found that the problem is, in fact, in the machine; and is an unfortunately all too common one with Hitachis. It looks like there is a problem or two with the temperature controls for the rising cycles. The store where we bought our two ill-starred machines has had more than 150 of them returned for this very reason. We have not replaced our Hitachi because despite the inferior support from the company, it is still the strongest and most useful machine currently available in our area. We miss it! We got very used to having a choice of 5 or 6 flavours of bread available. There is lots of new competition appearing on the market now, and we're checking out every one that appears. I have to confess that we rarely, if ever, went exactly by any recipe. We like whole grain breads without any white flour added, so I modified all the recipes accordingly. It wasn't as hard to do as I'd expected, and until the machine crashed we had little trouble getting light, full-sized loafs (1 and 1/2 lb. size). One thing I learned from Fleishmann's bread line might be of interest. The recipes in most bread books are written for U.S. types of flour, and don't work for Canadian flours.(So one way or another, I had to change my recipes!) We'd learned years ago that we could use Robin Hood Whole Wheat Flour in many white-flour recipes in a one-to-one exchange, while other flours we tried gave us the familiar toughened-rock effect. With bread recipes, this was very good to know, since we got very light loaves using no bread flour at all. No, we have no connection with Robin Hood--we're just fans of light whole grain breads. And we second Marie's request to Laura: beg, plead, can we have your orange-cinnamon rolls and icing recipe? Thanks again for all the good info. >From Janet; with help from the Amazing Gord, who not only understands cooking, he understands Machine Innards. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 07 Apr 1995 10:42:48 EDT From: tvasicek@watson.princeton.edu Subject: Is DAK still in business Message-ID: <0098E85C.CA318D20.23@watson.princeton.edu> I would like to buy a DAK bread machine, the Turbobaker IV, for a friend. We love ours because it has been so reliable and it has the largest capacity of any bread machine I've seen. Does anyone know how to reach DAK? Do they have a new phone #? They don't answer at the old number. Does anyone else sell Welbilt (the actual manufacturer of the DAk) machines? I have not seen them anywhere. Are there other machines that can handle four cups of flour -- making a 4+ lb. loaf? Thanks, Tom Vasicek tvasicek@watson.princeton.edu ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 06 Apr 95 09:51:56 EST From: gunterman@ccmailpc.ctron.com Subject: Lost manual Message-ID: <9503067971.AA797187116@ccmailpc.ctron.com> To: bread-digest@cykick.infores.com Subject: Lost manual Sorry to bother the list but I lost vida's direct address Vida, I cant seem to find my manual for my DAK machine! I know I told you I would photocopy it for you but, we moved 6 mos ago and are still living out of boxes. Thus, finding things is not as easy as I thought it was going to be. Sorry (but I _WILL_ keep looking for you) John gunterman@ctron.com ------------------------------ Date: 5 Apr 95 12:15:52 -0700 From: Mike Danseglio Subject: More slicing tips Message-ID: <9504061743.AA02129@netmail2.microsoft.com> I personally hate all the crumbs from slicing a nice crusty loaf of fresh bread. A friend of mine, Peter Stamos, made a suggestion: put a cooling rack over your kitchen sink and slice on that! I have a cooling rack that was bought for cookies, and it fits PERFECTLY over my sink. The crumbs just fall through into the sink, and I wash 'em down. My electric knife seems to work fine with this, and the only problem is that it makes a horrendous noise if you slice onto the metal rack. No harm, just noise. (sounds like a Meat Beat Manifesto song :) -Mike ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 06 Apr 1995 11:01:01 -0500 (CDT) From: Michelle Smith Subject: Re: Raisin Paska Bread Message-ID: <39666.smithml@lafayette.edu> Hello from Easton, Pennsylvania. I have a Breadman Plus bread maker--which hasn't given me any problems in the seven months that I have had it. I was wondering if anyone has a Raisin Paska Bread recipe. I believe it is an Easter bread, because that is when it is sold around here. The bread is moist and sweet with raisins. I was also wondering if anyone has some good fruit bread recipes they would be willing to share with me either through the list or privately. I have been using a few different raisin/cinnamon bread recipes, but usually the bread becomes hard the next day, and does not have very much flavor even though I add cinnamon and sometimes nutmeg. Any suggestions? Thank you in advance for your help!! Michelle Smith smithml@lafayette.edu Provost's Office Lafayette College Easton, Pennsylvania ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Apr 1995 21:08:30 -0400 From: aa122@detroit.freenet.org (John F Davis) Subject: Re: Room Temp Message-ID: <199504060108.VAA22294@detroit.freenet.org> Reguarding the "ROOM TEMPTURE" question. I have NEVER paid attention to that Usuall loaf consists of 1 lb flour at room temp 1/2 lb water at "Tap" tempture Salt, Gluten (If needed) and dry milk powder all at room tempture Butter - Room Temp Yeast at refrigerator temp Results are usualy excelent (If not it's generally the gluten) I't a 1 lb machine that nobody has ever heard of -- John F Davis In Delightful Detroit, Mi. aa122@detroit.freenet.org ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 06 Apr 95 09:55:53 EST From: gunterman@ccmailpc.ctron.com Subject: Slicing/DAK/Temps/..?.. Message-ID: <9503067971.AA797187353@ccmailpc.ctron.com> To: bread-digest@cykick.infores.com Subject: Slicing/DAK/Temps/..?.. All this talk about slicing...... I have a DAK wich I absolutely _LOVE_ (also have the DAK dehydrator and other goodies from them). Anyway, First I noticed a LOT of people on the list have DAK's. Didn't anybody get the slicing jig they offered? It fits the loaves perfectly and the slots in it provide for perfect slices evertime even _HOT_ bread slices nicely. they offered it as part of a package deal along w/ an electric(battery) flour sifter. I too got a 14" bread knife from my local resteraunt supply store here in NH for $12. and it is great! Does anybody have a way to get in touch w/ DAK. I need a new Pan because I wore the coating right off mine and the bread is starting to stick. The # I have doen not work(no answer). I heard they went out of business but I cant get any confirmation on that. As far as tempertures of ingredients, I never bother w/ them! The yeast comes straight out of the fridge as does the 1 egg I always out in to help fight the effects of altitude here in NH. the hot water is straight from the top as hot as it can get. I have NEVER had a loaf "fail" on me _except_ for my first attemp @ pumbernickel, but thats becaue i did not put _ANY_ white flour or gluten in it. you shoudl have seen that stupid crow trying to flu off w/ the 3.5 pound loaf in its talons. it was a real sight to see. And cleaning my machine! perish the thought! I think I had run the blade and pan through the dishwasher once or twice @ the most since I got it. I just(sometimes) wipe the "leavings" out of the pan and start on the next loaf. .?.. Is ther a "real time" version of this list...(ie "not digest") [Note from Jim - No there isn't; I can't really take any more time to filter the "subscribe," etc. requests. Also, the traffic doesn't really support it.] ------------------------------ Date: 6 Apr 1995 13:37:17 -0600 From: "Beverly Bradley" Subject: slicing bread Message-ID: <199504062006.NAA20205@netcomsv.netcom.com> slicing bread In reply to someone's recent questions about slicing warm bread, the type of knife you use and the means by which you wield it are important. I have tried for two years to teach this to my teenagers. All you need is a good bread knife, by which I mean one with a serrated edge and rounded tip. Mine comes from Chicago Cutlery and has a blade that is about twelve inches long, but there are many others available. It is not necessary to purchase the most expensive one, but there is one cardinal rule: This Knife Is ONLY For Cutting Bread. Threaten to use the knife on anyone caught applying it for any other purpose. My loaves generally have a crusty top, so I turn the loaf on its side to slice. It's easier to start the slice here. The most important part is this: Let the weight of the knife's blade draw the knife downward. Most people feel compelled to press down with their wrist and forearm, but this ISN'T NECESSARY, and generally results in a smashed loaf, particularly if the bread is tender or warm. Just slide the blade back and forth smoothly, and let gravity take care of the downward pressure. As I said before, my kids just don't get it. They think that applying more force on the knife will get the food in their mouths faster, I suppose. Anyway, it takes a little patience and practice, but once you get the hang of it, it's easy. Enjoy. Beverly Bradley (Beverly_Bradley@psislidell.com) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Apr 1995 18:47:16 -0400 From: vida@crsa.bu.edu (Vida Jakabhazy) Subject: Thanks for DAK booklet help! Message-ID: <199504052247.SAA25289@crsa.bu.edu> I just wanted to thank the multitudes who offered up their booklets or copies! I have passed along a copy of the booklet to my friend and told her never to underestimate the generosity of bread machine owners! I think this may be a new criteria for friendship... Again, I appreciate everyone's help! Vida Jakabhazy vida@crsa.bu.edu ------------------------------ End of Bread Digest V6 #15 ****************************** Bread Digest Tue, 18 Apr 1995 Volume 6 : Issue 16 Today's Topics: Amish Bread BREAD Digest V6 #15 (2 msgs) Drying sourdough starters Fleischmann's Yeast Bread Machine Favorites Is DAK still in business? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 14 Apr 1995 11:41:39 -0400 From: COMMSRVTEL@aol.com Subject: Re: Amish Bread Message-ID: <950414113249_83090811@aol.com> >Does anyone know whether the starter for Amish friendship bread will >stay vital if frozen? Recipes? I've been using the Amish starter for a couple years and have had good luck with freezing it. The recipe I use the most is for chocolate cake as follows: 2/3 cup oil (shortening)* 2/3 cup sugar 2/3 cup cocoa 3 eggs 1 cup batter 1-3/4 cup flour 1 tsp salt 1/2 tsp baking powder 1-1/2 tsp baking soda 1 tsp vanilla 1/2 cup water (3/4 cup)* Beat together oil, sugar and cocoa. Beat in eggs one at a time. Blend in batter. Add sifted dry ingredients alternately with water and vanilla. Pour into 2-9" pans (greased and floured). Bake at 350 for 30 min. *If you use shortening, increase water. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Apr 1995 23:53:41 -0700 From: flash@well.com (flash gordon md) Subject: Re: BREAD Digest V6 #15 Message-ID: <199504120654.XAA26288@well.sf.ca.us> >DAK is gone as far as i can tell. also: at frye's electronics in palo alto, ca; last friday i noticed they were closing out some "betty crocker" brand bread machines (which looked to be a 1 pound loaf model, similar to other clones) for $39.95. (that's thirty-nine ninety five: no typo). i don't know who makes it, but for that price it seems like a steal. frye's electronics 415/496-6000 i know they mail order electronic stuff. i don't know if they do that for this kind of stuff. good luck! %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% in theory, there's no difference between theory and practice, but in practice, there is. flash gordon, m.d., f.a.c.e.p. http://www.well.com/www/flash flash@well.com / flash@toad.com / flash@sirius.com / flashg@itsa.ucsf.edu ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Apr 95 21:09:52 LCL From: "Tracy L. Carter" Subject: Re: BREAD Digest V6 #15 >Date: Fri, 7 Apr 95 10:51:37 -0500 >From: cbacke@lsumc.edu (Cheryl Backes) >Subject: bread machine blues >Message-ID: <9504071551.AA05863@unixsrv1.lsumc.edu> > > I have recently purchased a Breadman Plus (3 months ago). I make (or >attempt to make ) bread everyday. I can empathize with the person who >reported having many flops with their machine. Even the recipes that come >with the Breadman Plus do not work in this machine. I have to stand right by >the machine during the mixing/kneading in order to adjust the ingredients. >Even then, the loaves rise, then fall during baking. I have contacted the >manufacturer on a couple of occasions. They seem to think that I do not >have the moisture content correct. I have on occasion made the dough so dry >that the loaf does not rise at all. I do live in Louisiana where the >humidity is high usually (90% on average); could this affect it? I have >varied the types of flour (King Arthur, Gold Medal, Pillsbury) and the >types/amounts of yeast, and adding lemon juice, and adding gluten......... I >am very frustated. I would never even dream of letting my machine make a >loaf by itself (overnight). Does anyone have any suggestions? The person >at the manufacturer said that it doesn't take a rocket scientist to make >bread in these machines -- why am I having all of these problems? One last > Cheryl, It must be your humidity. I have a Breadman Plus (Thanksgiving present) and every recipe I have tried has worked, even out of cookbooks written for other bread machines. in fact, as we speak, my french bread has finished baking. ************************************************************************* Tracy L. Carter, Computer Programmer Technician PA100597@UTKVM1.UTK.EDU Univ. of Tennessee College of Social Work **DISCLAIMER: Any opinions stated are not the opinions of my employer! "A conclusion is simply the place where you got tired of thinking!" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Apr 1995 8:53:23 -0600 (MDT) From: "Steven A. Hocevar" Subject: Drying sourdough starters Message-ID: <950412085323.44df@stimpy.FhHosp.Ab.Ca> >From: >Subject: amish friendship bread > >Does anyone know whether the starter for Amish friendship bread will >stay vital if frozen? I'll appreciate any help...and recipes you may >have come up with for the starter. I use it mostly with fruits & >nuts, but friends have had good results using it as the basis of >savory breads too. > >Thanks....Alex I pulled this off the sourdough newsgroup a while back. I hope no one minds me posting it here..... #################################################### How to dry and restart a culture #################################################### from dadams@cray.com (David Adams) Drying: For long term culture storage, store your culture in dried powder form. Ed Woods book doesn't tell you how to do this right out, but I sort of discovered it on my own. Actually I believe it is an old trick. Spread a three foot long section of wax paper on the Table WAX SIDE UP. Smear one tablespoon of fresh culture around evenly and thinly over the surface of the wax paper. Let it dry overnight, and then scrape the dry flakes into a bowl and crunch them (Mortal & pestle style) into small pieces. Put the powder into a labeled zip lock bag and press the air out. The culture forms spores when it starts to dry out. The culture will store in a zip lock bag at normal temperatures like this for 6 months. It will store even longer in the frezer. I find that a zip-lock bag is very convenient way to carry a culture when traveling or moving. Make sure the bag is labled and don't flaunt those little bags of white powder! I find it convenient to do several sheets of wax paper at once. Then when friends ask for a start I spoon two teaspoons into a new bag, and carry it to work, or where ever I will see them next. Another reason I find this convenient is that if you own several different cultures, they don't all have to occupy a bottle in the fridge at once. And it is fairly easy to include a small zip-lock with a teaspoon or two of start in a letter. An easy way to share starts. Restarting: Dr. Wood recomends the following steps for activating dried sourdough cultures: Mix a couple of teaspoons of the dried powder with 1/2 cup of water at 95 to 100 deg F. Mix briefly and let stand for 15 min. Add 1/3 cup of white bread flour, mix well and proof for 24 hours at 85 deg. F. (My start needs 12 hours.) "The jar lid should not be tightened. During the first 12 hours the culture should be stirred once or twice as convenient. "At the end of 24 hours the culture should start to bubble but the time varies depending on which culture is to be activated. Regardless, add an additional 1/2 cup of 85 deg. F. water and 1/2 cup of flour. Then stir vigorously to whip some air into the mixture. Return it to your warm place for 12 hours. When the culture has a layer of foamy bubbles on the surface, it is ready to use. Some of the cultures will fully activate in 24-48 hours, but some may require 3 to 5 days. During this time, keep the culture at 85 deg. F., add water and flour at about 12 hour intervals and stir briskly." (Copied by permission from information sheet sent with culture sample from Sourdoughs International.) ########################################################### ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Apr 1995 15:41:01 -0400 From: "John E. Johns" Subject: Fleischmann's Yeast Bread Machine Favorites Message-ID: <199504141941.PAA08522@hTSO01.Cin.IX.net> In response to Al Sherman: I have tried several recipes from this book with mixed results. Most did not seem to rise properly even thought the recipes called for 1 1/2 teaspoons of yeast for the one pound size loaf. I have an Hitachi breadmaker and mostly use recipes from ELECTRIC BREAD and a Panasonic bread machine book. I have had no problems with my Hitachi except that I am wearing out the pan and blade because of making several batches of grapenuts bread. Incidentally, I wonder is there is a difference in Hitachi bread machines sold in the U.S. and Canada. It seemed to me that the problems occurred in Canada but not in the U.S. I could be mistaken but it would be interesting to know is that is the case. John in Cincinnati ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Apr 1995 00:20:38 -0400 From: LenPH@aol.com Subject: Is DAK still in business? Message-ID: <950414002037_82736411@aol.com> No. I read that they had a warehouse sale some months ago selling off all they had remaining. Len ------------------------------ End of Bread Digest V6 #16 ****************************** Bread Digest Tue, 25 Apr 1995 Volume 6 : Issue 17 Today's Topics: #2(2) BREAD Digest V6 #15 BREAD Digest V6 #15 (3 msgs) BREAD Digest V6 #16 Italian Bread ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 19 Apr 1995 23:17:56 -0400 From: GGDA@aol.com Subject: Re: #2(2) BREAD Digest V6 #15 Message-ID: <950419225451_89338082@aol.com> DAK is in Canoga Park California. Do not know the number, but info should have it. The area code is 818... ggda@aol.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Apr 1995 07:20:43 -0700 (PDT) From: jfmorgan@netcom.com (Jim Morgan) Subject: Re: BREAD Digest V6 #15 Message-ID: <199504241420.HAA29169@netcom17.netcom.com> this for phyllis *bb* regarding her questions about the DAK time settings: i have a DAK and love it and even have the original *"DAK tubro baker IV* owner's manual. Here is the *setting the clock* instructions found on page 5: 1. plug the power cord into an AC outlet *the AM indicator and "12:00" flalsh on and off in the display. 2. pres the H (hour) button to select the present hour, then press the M (minute) button to select the present minute. Press and hold down one of these buttons to quickly advance the hour or minute display. BE SURE THAT THE CORRECT AM OR PM INDICATOR LIGHTS IN THE DISPLAY. 3. Press the CLOCK button to complete the clock setting procedure. *A beep is heard and the indicators stop flashing.* 4. If you make a mistake, press the CLOCK button again and repeat steps 2-3 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Apr 1995 07:34:16 -0700 (PDT) From: jfmorgan@netcom.com (Jim Morgan) Subject: Re: BREAD Digest V6 #15 Message-ID: <199504241434.HAA00385@netcom17.netcom.com> This is for Phyllis *BB* and her question about the SETTING on the DAK--(I sent a reply for setting the clock and forgot to send something about the timer on the machine. So here it is): TIMED AUTOMATIC BREAD-MAKING CYCLE: IMPT: do not use the timer when making bread that contains ingreditents that can easily spoil, such as eggs, butter, milk and meats. to prevent the quality of ingredients from deteriorating, the timer cannot be programmed to delay operation for periods over 12 hours. NOTE: when you set the timer, you are actually setting the end tiame, when the bread will be ready to eat (this includes the dough-making time, the baking time and the cooling time). 1. make sure the innter pot and dough blade are properly installed, then prepare the ingredients for the selected bread. 2. place the active dry yeast (at room temperature) in the inner pot. 3. according to the recipe that you are using: add the dry ingredients to the innter pot and then add the liquid ingredients last. (liquids should be 120 to 130 degrees F to activate the yeast). 4. press TURBO button if you wish to use the faster baking mode. 5. press the SELECT buttoin repeatedly to select the type of bread to be baked. SETTING THE TIMER: 6. press the TIMER SET button. (the timer display lights) 7. press the HOUR and MINUTE buttons to set the time that you want the bread-making cycle to end. (timer can only be set in 10-minute increments) 8. press the TIMER SET button again (a beep sound is heard and the TIMER indicator lights up. the clock display reappears) NOTE: if a mistake is made during timer setting, a long beep will be heard. in this case,or if you want to change the programed "end-of-baking" times, press the CLEAR/STOP button,then respeat steps6-8. 9. to display the programed end-of-baking time for 3 seconds, press the TIMER SET button. 10. when the baking cycle is finished, the beeper sounds. hope this helps, phyllis. {marlene :)} jfmorgan@netcom.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Apr 1995 07:44:47 -0700 (PDT) From: jfmorgan@netcom.com (Jim Morgan) Subject: Re: BREAD Digest V6 #15 Message-ID: <199504241444.HAA01554@netcom17.netcom.com> hi, tom. just read your e-mail on the *bread recipes* newsletter and wanted to answer concerning the DAK bread machine. i have a DAK turbo baker IV, too and love it. i have heard that DAK has folded, gone out of business, vanished some time ago. do not have documented proof of this but i heard this from a couple of sources. {marlene} jfmorgan@netcom.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Apr 1995 18:30:11 -0700 From: bobz@teleport.com (Linda Bobzien) Subject: Re: BREAD Digest V6 #16 Message-ID: <199504190130.SAA19269@desiree.teleport.com> Hi All, I just got a Breadman Plus (used to be Trillium, now called Salton) and I love it. Except for one thing... it is really NOISY. Is this a fluke, or do others that have this machine have similar experiance? As a side note, I returned the Westbend machine that I bought because the motor wasn't cutting it, it would bog down with whole wheat even on the whole wheat setting. Happily, the Breadman plows right through anything. Maybe that's why it's so noisy? By the way, so far all my recipes have worked. thanks for any input. Linda ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Apr 1995 13:36:25 -0400 (EDT) From: Dolores J Casali Subject: Italian Bread Message-ID: Hi, Does anyone have a recipe for Italian Bread. I have a Welbilt machine Thanks, Dolores Dolores J. Casali, Secretary, Student Health Service Insurance and Immunization ------------------------------ End of Bread Digest V6 #17 ****************************** Bread Digest Tue, 2 May 1995 Volume 6 : Issue 18 Today's Topics: BREAD Digest V6 #17 Delayed Baking / DAK / Italian Bread Recipie Grain Mills Italian Bread Recipe spelt ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 27 Apr 95 18:01:35 LCL From: "Tracy L. Carter" Subject: Re: BREAD Digest V6 #17 RE: the breadman plus being noisy. I own one, and yes, it's very noisy. In fact, when it's mixing, it works so hard that it rattles things on the counter. ************************************************************************* Tracy L. Carter, Computer Programmer Technician PA100597@UTKVM1.UTK.EDU Univ. of Tennessee College of Social Work **DISCLAIMER: Any opinions stated are not the opinions of my employer! "A conclusion is simply the place where you got tired of thinking!" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Apr 95 17:34:57 EST From: gunterman@ccmailpc.ctron.com Subject: Delayed Baking / DAK / Italian Bread Recipie Message-ID: <9503277990.AA799029297@ccmailpc.ctron.com> Hi All, 1) On the subject of delayed time baking.... I have a DAK Turbo Baker IV and I know this feature is built in but I have never used it. My concern is that by the time the baking cycle starts(6 hours later) the warm water will no longer be warm enough to activate the yeast. or conversely, the warm water will seep down through the ingredients into the yeast and activate it too soon and I'd find a mess in my machine fron it over flowing the pan over night. Can anybody out the qwell my concerns on this matter. 2) DAK _is_ DEAD I have called every phone # they ever had and they are either all disconected or there is no answer. I even tried calling their Corporate offices. Luckily My machine has _NEVER_ had a single problen after 4 years. opps I should not have said that now it'll probly blow up on me! 3) Italian Bread recipies..try my favorite! * Exported from MasterCook Mac * ITALIAN BREAD Recipe By : John A. Gunterman (gunterman@ctron.com) Serving Size : 16 Preparation Time :0:00 Categories : Breadmaker Italian Amount Measure Ingredient -- Preparation Method -------- ------------ -------------------------------- 1 package Yeast 3 cup Bread flour 2 tablespoon Sugar 2 tablespoon sweet cream butter -- softened 1 cup Hot Water -- Minus 1 TBS 2 egg whites -- stifly beaten Be sure to use "crisp" bread setting and add the egg whites after the rest of the ingredients form a ball in the machine. - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - NOTES : try adding (any or all): Basil, Oregano, Garlic, Thyme, Parmesan, Roman ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Apr 95 15:03:23 -0400 From: martin@cadence.com (Martin Koechel) Subject: Grain Mills Message-ID: I hope this is an acceptable question for this list; but, does anyone have any experience with grain mills (preferably electric)? Thanks! Martin (martin@cadence.com) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Apr 1995 14:33:12 -0400 From: CrissyMA@aol.com Subject: Italian Bread Recipe Message-ID: <950428143252_99712317@aol.com> Delores, This is a recipe a recipe I got from America Online. I have a Trillium clone and it worked well in my machine. Chris in Houston * Exported from MasterCook II * Italian Bread Recipe By : Chiandra/America Online Serving Size : 12 Preparation Time :3:00 Categories : Bread Machine Amount Measure Ingredient -- Preparation Method -------- ------------ -------------------------------- 2 1/2 teaspoons dry yeast 3 cups bread flour 1 teaspoon sugar 1 1/4 teaspoons salt 1 cup water Use the white bread cycle. - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - NOTES : If you like, you can add Italian seasonings - oregano, garlic powder, basil, thyme, etc. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 May 1995 11:42:21 -0400 From: pnh0jhm@pnh10.med.navy.mil Subject: spelt Message-ID: <199505011542.AA01742@pnh10.med.navy.mil> Can anyone supply recipies for wheatless bread...especially, one containing spelt flour? ------------------------------ End of Bread Digest V6 #18 ****************************** Bread Digest Tue, 9 May 1995 Volume 6 : Issue 19 Today's Topics: Beginner's recipies Bread Machine Recall Bread raised probably room temperature. DAK TurboBaker IV Delayed Baking Delayed Timer Baking Grain Mills Mail order source for Zojirushi? spelt breads Spelt Flour West Bend recall Wheatless Bread ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 04 May 1995 12:30:46 EDT From: Jim Carey Subject: Beginner's recipies Message-ID: <0098FDA3.585B6160.4@cykick.infores.com> [This was accidentally sent to me. I've forwarded it here. I've also truncated it. Please try to limit recipie submissions to 2-3 per issue. Thanks, Jim] From: weede@ncsa.uiuc.edu (Nick Weede) I have baked around 400 loaves in my Panasonic and later Zo. Here are a few receipts I experimented with when I first started making bread. Liquids may need to be adjusted for local conditions. GARLIC CORN BREAD First Press Olive Oil 2T Garlic Cloves 4 Egg 1 brown Bread Flower 2 1/2 cups Cornmeal 1/2 cup Salt 7/8t Milk 1T Maple Syrup 2T Poppy Seeds 2t Dill 1T Boost 2t Yeast 1 3/4t BUCKWHEAT/PARMESAN conversion factors: 1/4 cup equals 4 Tbsp. 1 tbsp = 3 tsp WATER 3/4C OIL 1T EGG 1 HONEY 1T WHITE FLOUR 1 1/2C WHEAT FLOUR 1/2C PARMESAN CHEESE 1/3C SALT 1t MILK 1T BOOST 2 1/2 t YEAST 1 1/2t (Zojirushi) SEMOLINA/PARMESAN WATER 7/8 C OLIVE OIL 1T MAPLE SYRUP 1T WHITE FLOUR 1 2/3 C SEMOLINA FLOUR 1/3 C SALT 1t POWDERED MILK 1T CARAWAY SEEDS 1 1/2t BASIL 1T ROSEMARY 1t PARMESAN CHEESE 1/3 C GARLIC 1t BOOST 1 1/2t YEAST 1 1/4t BASIL/OREGANO/PARMESAN WATER 3/4C OIL 1T EGG 1 HONEY 1T WHITE FLOUR 2C PARMESAN CHEESE 1/3C BASIL 1T OREGANO 1/2T SALT 1t MILK 1T BOOST 2t YEAST 2t PARMESAN/BASIL/CARAWAY WATER 7/8C HONEY 2T OLIVE OIL 2T WHITE FLOUR 1 3/4C SEMOLINA FLOUR 1/3C PARMESAN CHEESE 1/3C BASIL 1T CARAWAY 1t MILK 1T SALT 1t BOOST 1 1/2t YEAST 1 1/2t ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 6 May 95 12:41:00 -0820 From: gail@mbbs.com (Gail Shipp) Subject: Bread Machine Recall Message-ID: <291.29.754.0C345520@mbbs.com> I have no idea if West Bend will be sending out individual notices on this recall, but thought I would post the following. From the Washington Post April 26, 1995 The United States Consumer Product Safety Commission and West Bend Company have announced a repair program for 425,000 West Bend Automatic Bread and Dough Makers. The bread makers can overheat and pose a fire hazard. Consumers should check with West Bend before using their bread makers. West Bend is providing free pickup and repair of the affected bread makers, will return each repaired machine with six free bread mixes and will extend the warranty for an additional 12 months. The recall involves all models manufactured between June 1, 1994 and April 9, 1995. Call West Bend at 1-800-367-0111 between 6:00 AM and 10:00 PM Central Time to find out if your machine is recalled and arrange for pickup. gail@mbbs.com (1:261/1137.0) ___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 02 May 1995 10:14:52 From: esther@rochgte.fidonet.org (Esther Vail) Subject: Bread raised with sourdough starter only Message-ID: <799439143.AA08480@rochgte.fidonet.org> Having raised this question before, I feel entitled to brag--I finally did it! After years of occasional attempts with various starters, I got a nice well-risen loaf out of my original model DAK yesterday. I have no idea what caused the success, but I suspect it is that I have never before run a starter as long as my current one (two years; it's a mixture of potato water and bread flour *only* in equal proportions fed with plain water and flour when used), and perhaps it's just now up to full strength. I used this recipe: 3 c. King Arthur white flour 1 1/2 cup starter 2 teaspoons sugar 2 tablespoons oil 1/2 teaspoon salt I had the starter out on top of our hot water heater for about 20 hours before I started the bread. My starter is quite liquid; your proportions of flour to starter may well be different (I had a bunch of flops until I found these proportions worked for me), and you may need to add water if your starter is thick. I used the good old regular cycle. I bring this all up only for those who may, as I did, have had the ambition to make a real sour dough bread at least once. ------------------------------ Date: 03 May 95 08:57:20 -0800 From: Joel.Ehrlich@salata.com (Joel Ehrlich) Subject: DAK TurboBaker IV Message-ID: Responding to: gunterman@ccmailpc.ctron.com JG> On the subject of delayed time baking.... JG> I have a DAK Turbo Baker IV and I know this feature is built in but I JG> have never used it. JG> My concern is that by the time the baking cycle starts(6 hours later) JG> the warm water will no longer be warm enough to activate the yeast. or JG> conversely, the warm water will seep down through the ingredients into JG> the yeast and activate it too soon and I'd find a mess in my machine JG> fron it over flowing the pan over night. JG> Can anybody out the qwell my concerns on this matter. John, The TurboBaker IV and V have a pre-warmer and, if the mixture is too cool, will heat the dough during the initial mixing cycle. Don't worry about the water temperature. I used the delayed start feature on my old Model II and use it now on my Model V and never have had any trouble with the liquid seeping through the ingredient stack to activate the yeast. Not to worry. And congratulations on defeating that cat, Colonel. Joel ... I DID read the manual! That's why I'm confused!! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 May 1995 22:21:20 -0700 From: Darrell_Greenwood@mindlink.net (Darrell Greenwood) Subject: Re: Delayed Baking Message-ID: gunterman@ccmailpc.ctron.com wrote on Thu, 27 Apr 95 : > My concern is that by the time the baking cycle starts (6 > hours later) the warm water will no longer be warm enough to activate > the yeast. Room temperature water activates my dry activated yeast just fine. > or conversely, the warm water will seep down through the > ingredients into the yeast and activate it too soon and I'd find a > mess in my machine fron it over flowing the pan over night. The trick here is to put the yeast in last. i.e., water, dry ingredients, then the yeast. The yeast is not activated until the machine starts with my Black and Decker with delay times of 8 hours. Cheers, Darrell -- Darrell Greenwood, Vancouver, B.C. Darrell_Greenwood@mindlink.net ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 03 May 95 09:46:01 EDT From: ath@io.org (Allen Harris) Subject: Re: Delayed Timer Baking Message-ID: <199505031346.JAA16592@io.org> I use a Regal 1.5 pound bread machine. It works great. Since I work nights and my wife works days, I make bread almost every night with delays from 6 to 12 hours. I have never had a bad loaf using this process. The key is to put the water in first, then the flour which creates a sort of skin between the water and the other dry ingredients, then add the other dry ingredients. The only problem I have had is if there is too much water the paddle never gets into the flour and has problems mixing. Hope this dispells some fears. +++ Allen Harris Toronto, Canada ath@io.org ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 May 1995 08:03:36 -0400 From: jchovan@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (John D. Chovan, Ph.D.) Subject: Grain Mills Message-ID: <199505031203.IAA22367@beauty.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> I use the grain mill attachment to my KitchenAid mixer. I only have used it for relatively small quantities of hard and soft wheat, but I find that one hopperful of each is plenty for the amount of baking I do. I think the price is about $100.00 and you can get it from many sources. I have had mine for about 9 months and use it about once per month. Cleaning it can be tiresome, but I remember my mother cleaning her hand-cranked food grinder when I was a kid, so the cleaning of the grain mill brings back memories. There is an excellent book about baking from home-grown grains that includes a section on grain mills. But, I just cannot remember the title or author. Can anyone help out (Lynda?)? The traditional mills have stones that grind the grain, then there are those that have metal grinders like the KitchenAid. One of the more higher priced models uses impellers that split the grain by hurtling them through a fast spinning gauntlet with ridges. Various purists have their favorite methods. Some say that only stone ground will do, since metal raises the temperature of the wheat, thus pre-processing it, while others claim that any amount of grinding is unacceptable when compared to the impellers. I'm curious what others might think. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 May 1995 13:06:06 -0600 (MDT) From: "j.a. fielden" Subject: Mail order source for Zojirushi? Message-ID: <199505031906.NAA03930@rintintin.Colorado.EDU> Well I've decided to go whole hog and buy the Zoj BBCC-S15. I am looking for the best price deal I can find. Does anyone know a good price source for Zoj machines via mail order? I know a couple of people on this list have the S15, any difficulties or problems with it? How long did it take to decipher the instructions(they didn't appear terribly well written)? Thanks, --jf +------------------------------------------------------------------------+ Jeanette Fielden School: University of Colorado - Boulder Graduate Interdisciplinary Telecommunications Program fielden@colorado.edu http://ucsu.colorado.edu/~fielden/Home.html +------------------------------------------------------------------------+ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 03 May 95 11:33:09 EST From: gunterman@ccmailpc.ctron.com Subject: spelt breads Message-ID: <9504037995.AA799525989@ccmailpc.ctron.com> Well , I could not find totally wheatless recipies but did manage to find two that had spelt as an ingredient.... I have found that I can substitute Rice Flour for Wheat flour in a lot of cases and it seems to work "okay" but not great. The loaves do not seem to rise verry well no matter how much time I give them. Hope this helps John gunterman@ctron.com * Exported from MasterCook Mac * Spelt Bread #1 Machine Made Recipe By : Deborah Rech Serving Size : 14 Preparation Time :0:00 Categories : Bread Machine Amount Measure Ingredient -- Preparation Method -------- ------------ -------------------------------- 1 Tbsp Wonderslim 9 Oz Water 1 Tsp Salt 1 C Spelt Flour 2 C Bread Flour -- white 3 Tbsp Sugar 1 Tsp Active Dry Yeast -- Red Star, if using -- Fleischmann's may -- need more Original recipe called for 2 T butter or margarine instead of Wonderslim. I use the standard bread cycle, light crust setting. This loaf is milder than whole wheat, but has more character than white bread. If you choose to use whole wheat flour (which I think would overwhelm the flavor of the spelt), you would need to add a little gluten to help the rise -- maybe one rounded tablespoon. >From: dsr@philabs.Philips.COM (Deborah Rech) Formatted into MasterCook II by Reggie Dwork reggie@jeff-and-reggie.com - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - * Exported from MasterCook Mac * Spelt Bread #2 Machine Made Recipe By : Deborah Rech Serving Size : 14 Preparation Time :0:00 Categories : Bread Machine Amount Measure Ingredient -- Preparation Method -------- ------------ -------------------------------- 2 Tbsp Canola Oil 4 Oz Milk 5 Oz Water 3 Tbsp Molasses 1 Tsp Salt 1/4 C Rolled Oats 1 C Spelt Flour 2 C Bread Flour 1 tsp Active Dry Yeast -- Red Star-better rise I originally had put a little gluten in the above recipe and it came out a little too light. This further confirmed my belief that spelt must have a good gluten content. >From: dsr@philabs.Philips.COM (Deborah Rech) Formatted into MasterCook II by Reggie Dwork reggie@jeff-and-reggie.com - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - ------------------------------ Date: 03 May 95 06:42:23 -0800 From: Joel.Ehrlich@salata.com (Joel Ehrlich) Subject: Spelt Flour Message-ID: Responding to: pnh0jhm@pnh10.med.navy.mil PNH> Can anyone supply recipies for wheatless bread...especially, one PNH> containing spelt flour? If you order some spelt flour from King Arthur's Flour, they'll include several recipe cards with your order. That's true of just about anything you order from them. Joel ... If it tastes good it's fattening - if it don't it ain't. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 05 May 1995 16:40:25 EDT From: tvasicek@watson.princeton.edu Subject: West Bend recall Message-ID: <0098FE8F.62D319C0.64@watson.princeton.edu> Subj: Bread Maker My brother sent me this note today. I thought some other folks might like to know: My West Bend bread maker was just recalled to correct an overheating problem that can start a fire. West Bend bread machines manufactured between June 1, 1994 and April 9, 1995 (as marked on the information sticker on the back of the machine) are subject ro recall. Mine was manufactured on 12/01/94 and so it is in the middle of the time interval. West Bend will have UPS drop off a shipping box for the bread maker, pick it up 3 days later, and deliver the repaired machine 3 weeks later with 6 free bread mixes. That sort of means that I will be without a bread machine for 4 weeks. But the kids have stopped eating the bread as fast as I make it like they did for the first few months. ... -tv ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 May 95 10:23:20 EDT From: schapin@mitre.org (Susan Chapin) Subject: Wheatless Bread Message-ID: pnh0jhm@pnh10.med.navy.mil asks: Subject: spelt Message-ID: <199505011542.AA01742@pnh10.med.navy.mil> Can anyone supply recipies for wheatless bread...especially, one containing spelt flour? I regularly bake wheatless breads -- I am allergic to wheat flour, though not to gluten. If you can tolerate spelt flour (BTW, spelt is a variety of wheat) then my procedure will work for you: Use almost any recipe where the taste of spelt is appropriate, substituting 2 1/2 cups spelt flour and 1/2 cup vital wheat gluten for every 3 cups regular wheat, and watch the beginning of the knead cycle to adjust water/flour as required. If the bread overrises, use less gluten. I usually use 1/2 cup gluten, 1 cup kamut flour (kamut is another variety of wheat) and 1 1/2 cups other flours (barley, brown rice, buckwheat, corn, potato, oat, ...). I don't have any experience with spelt, because I get the same allergic reaction to it that I do to regular wheat, although I can tolerate kamut just fine. - susan (schapin@mitre.org, all above opinions are my own and are not necessarily known to or agreed to by my employer) ------------------------------ End of Bread Digest V6 #19 ****************************** Bread Digest Tue, 16 May 1995 Volume 6 : Issue 20 Today's Topics: BREAD Digest V6 #19 Zoji BCCS-15 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 10 May 1995 14:17:01 -0400 From: Cdluria@aol.com Subject: Re: BREAD Digest V6 #19 Message-ID: <950510141634_113851740@aol.com> Can anyone recommend a good 'Recipe Manager' program, either Shareware or a commercial program that has a demo copy one an try out? For MSDOS or WINDOWS. I have about 500 recipes in ASCII format that I have collected over the years and would like to import them into a program that can re-size, search by ingredients or categories, or keyword, etc. A nice-to-have (though not essential) feature would be the ability to record the date the recipe was last served, and to whom. I downloaded a program called MEAL-MASTER. For building up a recipe file from scratch, it wouldn't be bad. But for importing existing recipes it I find it exceedingly rigid. Not only do I have to rewrite each recipe to fit the program's format, but the error-handling routines do not allow for easy access or correction -- at least, not in the version posted on the BBS. ------------------------------ Date: 10 May 95 06:27:50 -0800 From: Joel.Ehrlich@salata.com (Joel Ehrlich) Subject: Zoji BCCS-15 Message-ID: <0c5_9505110900@salata.com> Responding to: "j.a. fielden" JAF> Well I've decided to go whole hog and buy the Zoj BBCC-S15. I am JAF> looking for the best price deal I can find. Does anyone know a good JAF> price source for Zoj machines via mail order? I doubt you'll be able to find a discount mail order source for this machine, it's just too popular. You can mail order them from King Arthur's Flour at 1-800-827-6836, but you'll pay full price. However, they do have an excellent (and free) customer service department with some very knowledgeable Zoji people in it. JAF> I know a couple of people on this list have the S15, any difficulties JAF> or problems with it? How long did it take to decipher the JAF> instructions(they didn't appear terribly well written)? The machine isn't hard to learn to use. Getting the most out of its programming flexibility takes some time and it is useful to be fluent in Japlish. Joel ... Press any key to continue or any other key to quit. ------------------------------ End of Bread Digest V6 #20 ****************************** Bread Digest Tue, 23 May 1995 Volume 6 : Issue 21 Today's Topics: a good 'Recipe Manager' program....... BREAD Digest V6 #20 (3 msgs) Digest Submission Meal Master ect Menu Management Program Suggestion (2 msgs) Orange Roll Recipe Sourdough Recipes (ABM) Zoji BCCS-15 Zoji source ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 17 May 95 08:07:58 EST From: gunterman@ccmailpc.ctron.com Subject: a good 'Recipe Manager' program....... Message-ID: <9504178007.AA800723278@ccmailpc.ctron.com> Might I recommend MasterCook(both for Mac and Windows) it will do all the things you are loking for and more. It is simply the best recipie program I have ever had the pleasure to use. they have a BBS that you may download a Demo Version of the software from. the BBS # is... (512) 327-9814. I have used both the Windoze and Mac versions and have been pleased w/ my purchases. John A. Gunterman Macintosh Specialist Technical Support Group Cabletron Systems Inc. gunterman@ctron.com (cute ASCII character intentionally left off) ______________________________________________ The opinions expressed in this message are solely mine. If they coincide w/ ctron's opinion's it is purely coincidental. ______________________________________________ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 May 95 15:53:22 CDT From: marym@mpd.tandem.com (Mary Matejka) Subject: Re: BREAD Digest V6 #20 Message-ID: <9505162053.AA02395@europa> I recently bought a Hitachi 103B bread machine. It is one of those whose directions call for ice water. I followed directions and got hocky pucks. So I have been playing around and thought others on the list might be interested, as the hocky puck questions show up here occasionally :-) What is working at the moment: (1 y.o yeast, stored in the freezer, and room temps of around 80-85 degrees) is to proof the yeast (2 tsps) in warm water with 1 TBS of sugar til it is quite foamy. (10 to 15 minutes), use the rapid bread cycle (2:30) and use enough water to give the "normal" dough consistency. (Somewhat softer than handmade bread, but a cohesive lump during kneading.) I am using a scant teaspoon of pure gluten for regular flour, and no extra gluten with King Arthur's french bread flour. This give me bread all the way past the top of the pan. On regular cycle it will run over. So hang in there, Hitachi's do work. It is so much quieter than the DAK/Welbuilt R2D2 unit that I used to own. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 May 1995 00:02:58 -0400 From: JanicePru@aol.com Subject: Re: BREAD Digest V6 #20 Message-ID: <950517000256_121424670@aol.com> I too was looking for a good recipe management program. My Mom has entered about 300 recipes over the past 4 years into an old data base program which is really awkward to use. I found the meal master program which is available on line to be better, but still not what I was looking for to completely manage my kitchen. I just recently purchased a commercial program called " THE MASTERCOOK Silver Platter Cookbook" by Arion. So far I have been very pleased. It allows me to enter recipes easily, create menu plans, formulate shopping lists, resize recipes and even get nutritional information on my own recipes (as long as I enter the number of servings). I can also import all of the Meal-Master recipes into the program. There are also over 600 recipes in the program from the California Culinary Academy. The only thing I can't do with it is transfer all of the recipes my Mom entered in the old data-base. The program is unable to read the format she entered them in. If any one has any suggestions on how I might be able to get them into the new format, please let me know. I have only just begun to re-type the recipes and any help or suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Anyway, I am really enjoying the "Silver Platter Cookbook" program and highly recommend it. Happy Cooking, Janice ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 May 95 19:28:00 -0820 From: dale@mbbs.com (Dale Shipp) Subject: Re: BREAD Digest V6 #20 Message-ID: <291.33.754.0C34578E@mbbs.com> -=> On 05-16-95 08:14, Bread@cykick.infores.com <=- -=> spoke to All about BREAD Digest V6 #20 <=- Br> Date: Wed, 10 May 1995 14:17:01 -0400 Br> From: Cdluria@aol.com Br> Subject: Re: BREAD Digest V6 #19 Br> Message-ID: <950510141634_113851740@aol.com> Br> Can anyone recommend a good 'Recipe Manager' program, either Shareware Br> or a commercial program that has a demo copy one an try out? For MSDOS Br> or WINDOWS. I have about 500 recipes in ASCII format that I have Br> collected over the years and would like to import them into a program Br> that can re-size, search by ingredients or categories, or keyword, Br> etc. That sure sounds like Meal Master to me. Because of its ability to do all of those things, it needs to have specific fields for the ingredient names and amounts. That forces a rigid format on it. There is a program that helps convert free formatted recipes into MealMaster format. It is called MMCONV, an inexpensive shareware program written by Rodney Grantham. It is available at a number of FIDONET public BBS. Do not know if it is on AOL or not. You could point your AOL WWW browser to http://www.primenet.com/~wilson/mm/mealmast.html where you will find latest version of mealmaster, of MMCONV and other food related things. Br> A nice-to-have (though not essential) feature would be the ability to Br> record the date the recipe was last served, and to whom. Not directly -- but you can always edit the recipe to add that in later. Br> I downloaded a program called MEAL-MASTER. For building up a recipe Br> file from scratch, it wouldn't be bad. But for importing existing Br> recipes it I find it exceedingly rigid. Not only do I have to rewrite Br> each recipe to fit the program's format, but the error-handling Br> routines do not allow for easy access or correction -- at least, not in Br> the version posted on the BBS. Try out MMCONV. I think you will find that it makes the process of converting *much* easier. Read the DOC file that comes with it for some helpful hints. As to commercial programs, I can also recommend MasterCook II which is a windows program, cost is about $30. Another shareware program that does not have the rigid format requirements is called Qbook. That you can find on the ftp site at oak.oakland.edu. It does not do any resizing, or shopping lists though. dale@mbbs.com (1:261/1137.0) ... Shipwrecked on Hesperus in Maryland. 19:11:52 17 May 95 ___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 May 95 11:09:47 cst From: "SHERI K THOMASSON" Subject: Digest Submission Message-ID: <9504168006.AA800674083@ccmail.monsanto.com> Here's a bread recipe I recently concocted to resemble Muffaletta bread. 1 c warm water 1 T sugar 1 pkg dry yeast (about 1 T) 3 c bread flour 1.5 t salt 2 T veg shortening I put all the ingredients in my bread machine and run on "dough" setting. When done, I take it out, roll it into a large, not too thin, rectangle. Then I sprinkle on 1 can of chopped green chiles and 1 to 1.5 cups shredded cheddar. Roll up jelly roll fashion, then form the roll into a coil shape. On greased baking sheet, spritz with olive oil. Cover with plastic. Rise 1 hour. Cook at 425 for 10 mins. Reduce to 375 and bake 25 mins. Hope you enjoy it if you try it! My family loves it! Sheri T. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 May 1995 12:35:10 -0400 From: aa122@detroit.freenet.org (John F Davis) Subject: Meal Master ect Message-ID: <199505171635.MAA10886@detroit.freenet.org> Cdluria@aol.com Writes: >Can anyone recommend a good 'Recipe Manager' program, either Shareware or a >I downloaded a program called MEAL-MASTER. For building up a recipe file from >scratch, it wouldn't be bad. But for importing existing recipes it I find it >exceedingly rigid. Not only do I have to rewrite each recipe to fit the >program's format, but the error-handling routines do not allow for easy >access or correction -- at least, not in the version posted on the BBS. There are probrams such as QBTOMM which make the importation of recipies in Meal Masher (er) Master easier. However I like Q-Book myself. True it lacks many of the advanced features Meal Master has such as the ability to print a "Shopping list" for you but it will let you import in most any format with little editing. I have recipes in my file that were originally Q-Book. Meal Master, Master Cook, and Kitchen Assistant as well as my favorate which is MANUAL V1.26.51 (and or HAND-TYPE V 1.26.51) With Q-Book you put "-Begin Recipe Export-" before the message and then "Title: " followed by the title on the next line and "Keywords:" followed by keyword1, keyword2, keyword3 (what ever the keywords are, for example any recipe imported from this list would have Keywords: ABM, Bread, (more if needed) Need more keywords than will fit on one line, Well you can have a second Keywords: line, or a third or 4th or however many Next comes the text of the "recipe" (Actually any text file up to 72 char's wide, that's the ONLY format consideration in this part) and finally a "-End Recipe Export-" Now in case you haven't guessed, -Begin Recipe Export-,Title: ,Keywords: and -End Recipe Export- are all macro keys on my word processor so they are easy The file is stored in compressed format as well thus saving you many bytes of disk space (I understand the latest Meal Masher will do that too but haven't seen it up close). Searching is on titles and keywords only. The latest version allows you to search on multi keywords using the and/or/not logic (IE: BREAD and ABM or BREAD not ABM if you don't want to use the abm to make it) Neet program. The latest version also allows you to change all occurances of a given keyword to something else. Example MACHINE to ABM or the other way around. And there is much more. You can also do "Manual Imports" where you mark a recipe from a text (ASCII) file and then give the program the title and keywords. It provides it's own -Begin Recipe Export- and -End Recipe Export- but I don't like that feature as it's way too slow on this venerable old 8088, Yes it runs in dos, and on a 8088 with a herc card. Only one considerations CONFIG.SYS must say FILES=30 or so as if you don't have a FILES statment in CONFIG.SYS it will crash! -- John F Davis In Delightful Detroit, Mi. aa122@detroit.freenet.org ------------------------------ Date: 17 May 95 07:07:18 -0800 From: Joel.Ehrlich@salata.com (Joel Ehrlich) Subject: Menu Management Program Suggestion Message-ID: Responding to: Cdluria@aol.com CL> Can anyone recommend a good 'Recipe Manager' program, either Shareware CL> or a commercial program that has a demo copy one an try out? For MSDOS CL> or WINDOWS. I have about 500 recipes in ASCII format that I have CL> collected over the years and would like to import them into a program CL> that can re-size, search by ingredients or categories, or keyword, CL> etc. CL> A nice-to-have (though not essential) feature would be the ability to CL> record the date the recipe was last served, and to whom. CL> I downloaded a program called MEAL-MASTER. For building up a recipe CL> file from scratch, it wouldn't be bad. But for importing existing CL> recipes it I find it exceedingly rigid. Not only do I have to rewrite CL> each recipe to fit the program's format, but the error-handling CL> routines do not allow for easy access or correction -- at least, not in CL> the version posted on the BBS. Meal Master is a great program. You have cited its greatest shortcoming. If you don't wany a rigid format like M-M, try QBook. It too is sharware but has the virtue of being a free-format recipe file manager. Joel ... OK, YOU'VE REACHED THE BOTTOM OF THE MESSAGE. WAKE UP!!! ------------------------------ Date: 18 May 95 16:34:41 -0800 From: km@salata.com (Karen Mintzias) Subject: Menu Management Program Suggestion Message-ID: <83c_9505181800@salata.com> JE> Meal Master is a great program. You have cited its greatest JE> shortcoming. If you don't wany a rigid format like M-M, try JE> QBook. It too is sharware but has the virtue of being a JE> free-format recipe file manager. I think it needs to be mentioned however, that Meal-Master is a full-fledged database program, with boolean search mechanisms available for ALL parts of a recipe, shopping lists, resizing, and Metric-English conversions, while Qbook is basically a shell that allows archiving of text and searching on user-specified "keywords". ObBreadStuff: My sourdough starter (made with only flour, water and a bit of fruitsource syrup) seems to be thriving at long last, and now I'd like to start making bread with it. Anyone have any tips on doing sourdough in a Hitachi 201 machine? How much starter do I need to use for a regular loaf? Thanks, Karen ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 May 1995 10:14:13 -0700 From: Laura Bridges Subject: Orange Roll Recipe Message-ID: <199505161714.KAA01935@vod.continuus.com> About a month ago, someone described what sounded like really delicious orange rolls (or breakfast bread with a sweet orange sauce tested to perfection...). Whoever you are, how about sharing that recipe? It sounds wonderful!! Thanks in advance, laura@cwi.com ------------------------------ Date: 19 May 95 16:55:16 -0800 From: Joel.Ehrlich@salata.com (Joel Ehrlich) Subject: Sourdough Recipes (ABM) Message-ID: <576_9505200921@salata.com> Karen Mintzias wrote about Menu Management Program Suggestion to Joel Ehrlich on 18 May 95 16:34:41 saying... KM> I think it needs to be mentioned however, that Meal-Master is a KM> full-fledged database program, with boolean search mechanisms KM> available for ALL parts of a recipe, shopping lists, resizing, and KM> Metric-English conversions, while Qbook is basically a shell that KM> allows archiving of text and searching on user-specified "keywords". KM> ObBreadStuff: My sourdough starter (made with only flour, water and a KM> bit of fruitsource syrup) seems to be thriving at long last, and now KM> I'd like to start making bread with it. Anyone have any tips on doing KM> sourdough in a Hitachi 201 machine? How much starter do I need to use KM> for a regular loaf? There are a lot of recipes for sourdough bread in bread machines. Some are authentic (they don't use yeast). Some are less so (they do). Some use a sponge to sour the dough, some don't. All use some kind of timing trick to get the time needed for the bread to rise. I have tried all of those which follow. All produce great bread (with MY starter from Dick Adams). Let us know how they work with yours. Best Machine Sourdough Bread (ABM) No. 3327 Yields 1 Loaf 3/4 Tbls Yeast 1 Tbls Oil 2 1/4 Cups Bread Flour 1 Cup Sourdough Starter 1 Tbls Sugar 1/2 Cup Warm Water 1 tsp Salt All ingredients except the water should be at room temperature before starting. Add the ingredients to the pan in the order listed. Select "White Bread". Press "Start". ~~~ Adapted by Joan Mershon from a recipe by Helen Fleischer Multi Grain Sourdough Bread (ABM) No. 3217 Yields 1 Loaf 2 tsp Dry Yeast 3 Tbls Cracked Wheat (use 3/4 Cup Rye Four Wheatena Cereal) 2 Cups Whole Wheat Flour 1 tsp Salt 1 1/2 Cups Bread Flour 4 Tbls Molasses 3 Tbls Wheat Germ 3 Tbls Olive Oil 3 Tbls Oat Bran 1/2 Cup Sourdough Starter 1/2 Cup Corn Meal 2 Cups Warm Water 2 Tbls Gluten Add the ingredients to the pan in the order listed. Select "White Bread". Press "Start". ~~~ Sharon Stevens Wesley Pitts' Sourdough Bread (ABM) No. 3445 Yields 1 Loaf 3 Cups Bread Flour 1/2 tsp Baking Powder 1/2 Cup Sourdough Starter 1/2 tsp Salt 1 Tbls Sugar 1 Cup Warm Water 1 Tbls Butter All ingredients should be slightly above room temperature before starting. Add the ingredients to the pan in the order listed. Select "White Dough". Press "Start". At the completion of the dough cycle, select "Whole Wheat Bread" and commence a delayed start cycle due to complete in 8 1/2 hours. ~~~ Wesley Pitts Sourdough French Bread (ABM) No. 3204 Yields 1 Loaf 1/2 Tbls Yeast 1 tsp Salt 2 1/4 Cups Bread Flour 1/2 Cup Water, Tepid 1 Cup Sourdough Starter 1 Tbls Sugar Add all the ingredients to the pan in the sequence listed. Select "French Bread". Press "Start". Slowly drizzle the water into the machine while it is running. Add water until the dough forms a rough ball which cleans the sides of the pan. If there is a wet smear under the dough paddle, slowly add flour until the smear is gone. Let the dough knead for a few minutes. There should be no wet smear under the dough paddle and the dough should have a slightly tacky feel to it (your finger should come away clean). If the dough feels dry instead of slightly tacky, add a just a few drops of water. NOTE: You may replace 1/2 cup of bread flour with 1/2 cup of rye flour and add 1 teaspoon of caraway seed to make a sourdough rye bread. ~~~ Joyce Monschein Joel ... Error #21234 ... Hard Drive playing dead to scare user. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 May 1995 12:24:24 -0400 From: Sandal@aol.com Subject: Zoji BCCS-15 Message-ID: <950517114729_121875916@aol.com> Joel.Ehrlich@salata.com (Joel Ehrlich) writes: >> I doubt you'll be able to find a discount mail order source for this machine, >> it's just too popular. I used to hang out on GEnie, where there was a lot of talk about a guy who sold Zojis at a discount. Apparently he works in a rehab facility that uses breadmachines as therapy, and he became a rep so that they could get a good price, and started selling them in order to keep his volume up. They say he's very helpful. I don't know whether this information is still valid, but as of last year he could be reached at: Irwin Franzel Delta Rehabilition, Inc. 411 Bryn Mawr Island Bradenton, FL. 34207 (813) 758-9093 I bought my Zoji from King Arthur Flour because I needed to use a credit card, but as I recall I could have saved about fifty bucks if I'd ordered from Irwin. It's definitely worth checking into. Sandi F. in Fayetteville, AR sandal@aol.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 May 1995 09:39:54 -0600 (MDT) From: "j.a. fielden" Subject: Re: Zoji source Message-ID: <199505171539.JAA17323@rintintin.Colorado.EDU> |------------------------------ | |Date: 10 May 95 06:27:50 -0800 |From: Joel.Ehrlich@salata.com (Joel Ehrlich) |Subject: Zoji BCCS-15 |Message-ID: <0c5_9505110900@salata.com> | | Responding to: "j.a. fielden" | | JAF> Well I've decided to go whole hog and buy the Zoj BBCC-S15. I am | JAF> looking for the best price deal I can find. Does anyone know a good | JAF> price source for Zoj machines via mail order? | | I doubt you'll be able to find a discount mail order source for this machine, | it's just too popular. You can mail order them from King Arthur's Flour at | 1-800-827-6836, but you'll pay full price. However, they do have an excellent | (and free) customer service department with some very knowledgeable Zoji | people in it. | Actually I did find a reasonable mail order source for the Zoji. I received three different messages about Delta Rehab, two about King Arthur's and one about Zabar's. Incidentally I found no place selling the machine for the MSRP of $350 (verified when I called Zoji with some questions). The typical price was $299, the same as I found in a local store here in Boulder. This is the composite info I received about Delta Rehab, sounds like they could be useful for a number of things: You can get a brand new one for $260.00 this includes the shipping! Regular retail is $350. If you don't mind a small dent in one they will sell it for $195-220. This is the lowest prices in the country. Call the toll free number, 1-800-641-9093. The company's name is Delta Rehab. They sell some items, including this mahcine, but their main business is to solve bread maching baking problems. And now for a completely separate question: Has anyone tried kneading pasta dough in their bread machine? +------------------------------------------------------------------------+ Jeanette Fielden School: University of Colorado - Boulder Graduate Interdisciplinary Telecommunications Program fielden@colorado.edu http://ucsu.colorado.edu/~fielden/Home.html +------------------------------------------------------------------------+ ------------------------------ End of Bread Digest V6 #21 ****************************** Bread Digest Tue, 30 May 1995 Volume 6 : Issue 22 Today's Topics: BREAD Digest V6 #21 Cookbook programs Delta Rehab electronic catalog Hockey pucks ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 24 May 1995 09:14:35 -0400 From: annminer@nauticom.net (Ann Miner) Subject: Message-ID: <199505241314.JAA04855@pgh.nauticom.net> A couple points: About the recipe software. I'm an enthusiastic MasterCook user. There is also a terrific shareware program available now which you can use to format "unformatted" recipes for importing into MasterCook (or to go through Meal-Master's conversion program for that matter). You can do the formatting with mouse clicks - very easy and efficient. The program is called TXTTOMC and is available on the Arion (makes MasterCook) home page: http://www.arion.com/mstrcook.html and in the Windows cooking library on AOL (among other places, I'm sure.) About Irwin Franzel and the Delta Rehab (sellers of Zoji S15s). I bought a Zoji from Irwin last year and have met him personally. He does a great job and is very knowledgeable about baking in the Zoji. He has recently discounted his machines another $10 or so. He will E-mail a catalog to you - he's availabe at CPXD31A@prodigy.com Ann ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 May 1995 17:16:48 -0400 From: Cdluria@aol.com Subject: Re: BREAD Digest V6 #21 Message-ID: <950528171646_14965146@aol.com> Re: Menu Management Programs Query: Thank you all for your many responses and helpful suggestions. You guys are really great! We did finally settle on Master Cook II and are happy with it. Carlos ------------------------------ Date: 24 May 95 07:46:06 EDT From: Larry and Jenny Hutchi <74444.3462@compuserve.com> Subject: Cookbook programs Message-ID: <950524114606_74444.3462_EHH82-1@CompuServe.COM> I use a cookbook program that I bought at Sam's wholesale club for under $50. It comes with it's own recipes and allows adding of your own (fairly easy) and creates shoppping lists, sizes recipes, nutrional profiles etc. It's called Micro Cookbook 4.0. I wonder if anyone else is familiar with this program and the other two mentioned in the last digest. One was called "The Mastercook" and one was called Meal Master. I am satisfied with my Micro Cookbook but am wondering if I'm really missing something in one of those others. Can anybody comment? Also, what's a BBS? It was mentioned in reference to a program demo? Thanks. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 May 1995 09:56:00 -0600 (MDT) From: "j.a. fielden" Subject: Delta Rehab electronic catalog Message-ID: <199505301556.JAA10032@rintintin.Colorado.EDU> I have received the Delta Rehab electronic catalog from Irwin at cpxd31a@prodigy.com If anyone want's a copy I'll be more than happy to forward it. They offer the Zoji S-15, S-15A, and have a special on them for $250 complete for a new one right now. They also have a finnish pan($25) that will let you bake bread in your machine without the hole in the bottom. You put it in after the first rise cycle. According to catalog this is an exclusive Delta Rehab item. Parts, grinding mill, books, yeast, dough conditioner, and non-stick pastry boards are also available, bread knives bread boards etc. are available from time to time. Their number is 1-800-641-9093 +------------------------------------------------------------------------+ Jeanette Fielden School: University of Colorado - Boulder Graduate Interdisciplinary Telecommunications Program fielden@colorado.edu http://ucsu.colorado.edu/~fielden/Home.html +------------------------------------------------------------------------+ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 May 1995 13:14:37 +0800 (MYT) From: "E. S. Chan" Subject: Hockey pucks Message-ID: > From: marym@mpd.tandem.com (Mary Matejka) > > I recently bought a Hitachi 103B bread machine. It is one of those > whose directions call for ice water. I followed directions and > got hocky pucks. > My old Panasonic said to cool down everything, but I would get inconsistent results (h.p.'s). I gave up and just used everything at whatever temperature and I'm in Malaysia where it's 90 F every day. It didn't seem to affect the results, in that once in a while I get a compact loaf, but usually the loaves are at least to the top of the pan, and often way over. I find that the difference is in the (1) yeast quality, (2) yeast quantity, (3) right amount of water, and (4) dough conditioner additive. I get the most inconsistent loaves when I change yeast brands or it comes from a different batch. I was lucky and purchased some very effective powdered yeast in bulk and it always gives good loaves. I've stored it in airtight jars at room temperature for 9 months and it is still OK. I use 1/2 - 1/4 more than the recommended amount. Yes, slightly more water seems to be better than not enough, but you really have to be careful because it's easy to add too much. Do it spoon by spoon if you're not sure, and watch the dough to make sure it doesn't get runny. The bakery goods shops here sell an unbranded "dough conditioner" that helps the elasticity and refines the bread. It's a white powder that looks like cornstarch. I use an amount equal to the recommended amount of yeast. The amazing thing is that with common plain white flour I get pretty good bread. However, because the conditioner makes the holes very tiny, some people who are used to naturally tougher bread might not like the spongy texture. Hope this helps, Gene Chan, Malaysia ------------------------------ End of Bread Digest V6 #22 ****************************** Bread Digest Tue, 6 Jun 1995 Volume 6 : Issue 23 Today's Topics: BREAD Digest V6 #22 Dak Newbie signs on ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 31 May 1995 13:56:17 -0400 From: CrissyMA@aol.com Subject: Re: BREAD Digest V6 #22 Message-ID: <950531135616_18199248@aol.com> In a message dated 95-05-30 15:45:15 EDT, you write: >From: Larry and Jenny Hutchi <74444.3462@compuserve.com> >Subject: Cookbook programs It's called >Micro Cookbook 4.0. I wonder if anyone else is familiar with this program >and >the other two mentioned in the last digest. One was called "The Mastercook" >and >one was called Meal Master. I am satisfied with my Micro Cookbook but am >wondering if I'm really missing something in one of those others. Can >anybody >comment? I purchased Micro Cookbook 4.0 for Windows a couple of years ago and had disastrous results with my system. Other people that I know who had also purchased the program ran into similar problems. Just curious if you're running the DOS or Windows version. I'm now using Mastercook II for Windows and really love it. Makes shopping lists, has nutritional info, menus, you can enter your own recipes, and comes with several cookbooks. It's never crashed. I believe it's available for about $25. Chris in Houston ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 May 1995 18:21:55 -0400 (EDT) From: CURTISK@NKU.EDU Subject: Dak Message-ID: <01HR4GMB73SUBWC153@NKU.EDU> We have a friend here who has a Dak breadmaker which is not putting out good bread. I told him that maybe it was the breadmaker and someone said that they went out of business. Is this so? Who would handle repairs for this? He really loves his breadmaker and makes a lot of bread Mary Curtis ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Jun 1995 12:20:57 -0400 From: ephraim@stonewire.com (Ephraim Vishniac) Subject: Newbie signs on Message-ID: <95Jun2.123928edt.13445@gate.stonewire.com> I've just joined this list, but I've been baking my own bread for about a year and a half. I realized a couple of years ago that I'm allergic to corn, which pretty much rules out commercially baked bread. If anybody else here is similarly allergic, I'll be happy to swap corn-avoidance tips. I bought a small-loaf Panasonic and make about five loaves a week, mostly white, but occasionally whole-wheat or cheese bread. I used to make a lot of light rye, but I seem to be allergic to that, too :-(. I'm very pleased with the Panasonic, which gives consistent and delicious results. The only failures I've had were due to pilot errors (forgot the paddle, measured wrong) or power outages. What motivated me to seek out this list was an interest in baking non-wheat breads. As I'm already allergic to corn and rye, I worry about becoming sensitized to wheat. One alternative that I recently heard of is spelt. I bought a couple of pounds at Bread & Circus this week, but haven't tried it yet. I'm told that I can substitute it for ordinary bread flour, perhaps with some additional wheat gluten, so I intend to try that tomorrow. If you have any experience with alternative flours, or know of a good book on the subject, please let me (or the entire list) know. I'll be very interested to hear about it. On a different topic, this list would be easier to find if it were mentioned in the Publicly Accessible Mailing Lists (PAML) or the rec.food.cooking FAQ, both of which are maintained by arielle@taronga.com. A bread baking Web page would be another good thing, but that would require some real effort on somebody's part. Ephraim [Msg from Jim - As far as I know, this list is in the List of Lists. I've never heard of the PAML, but I'll add it to the rec.food.cooking FAQ. Thanks for the tip] ------------------------------ End of Bread Digest V6 #23 ****************************** Bread Digest Wed, 14 Jun 1995 Volume 6 : Issue 24 Today's Topics: Bad Bread Results BREAD Digest V6 #23 (3 msgs) Spelt bread -- thanks for the help! troubleshooting bread machines ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 07 Jun 95 05:51:19 -0800 From: Joel.Ehrlich@salata.com (Joel Ehrlich) Subject: Bad Bread Results Message-ID: Responding to: CURTISK@NKU.EDU MK> We have a friend here who has a Dak breadmaker which is not putting MK> out good bread. I told him that maybe it was the breadmaker and MK> someone said that they went out of business. Is this so? Who would MK> handle repairs for this? He really loves his breadmaker and makes a MK> lot of bread Mary Curtis Yes, they're out of business. That means there's no one to help your friend but us. A bread machine is only a machine. While it is possible for a machine to be bad and produce disappointing bread, it is highly unusual. It's more often the person using it expecting it to be truly automatic and not understanding the role they must play in the cycle. Why not tell us more about the problem? Once you tell us what kind(s) of bread are being tried and what kind of results they are getting, I'm pretty sure we'll be able to figure out what is wrong and what needs to be done to get the kind of results they want. Joel ... Sandwich: a faulty attempt to make both ends meat. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Jun 1995 20:44:52 PST From: "Rob Ryerson" Subject: Re: BREAD Digest V6 #23 Message-ID: <7B5D140839@compctr.ccs.csus.edu> > >Micro Cookbook 4.0. I wonder if anyone else is familiar with this program > I purchased Micro Cookbook 4.0 for Windows a couple of years ago and had > disastrous results with my system. I'd replied privately to the original msg, but thought I'd comment on the follow up here. I've been using Micro Cookbook for Windows for a while. Initially I had problems also. Specifically, running After Dark and the Billminder option of Quicken will cause G.P Faults for Micro Cookbook V4.0C. However, I liked the program, and decided to do without those two features. I talked several times with Tech. Support at Pinpoint, and although they indicated they were trying to come up with a fix, I've never seen any code. Yesterday I received by snail mail, a flyer offering Micro Cookbook V5.0, with a 10,000 recipe CD-Rom version available, all for $19.95. It is being markedted by PC Zone, and has a bunch of new features, including import functions from other cookbook formats. Perhaps the best feature will be that it is MS Access based now, which may clean up some 'unique' database designs in the original product. I jumped on the Pinpoint BBS, but didn't find any product announcements. So, I left a couple of questions. If anyone is interested, drop me a private note, and I'll reply when I have correct, current information. As far as I know, this will be the first cookbook package that can directly import from other formats. Might be enough to push Micro Cookbook over the rest. Rob ------------------------------ Date: 7 Jun 95 10:13:20 EDT From: Cherie Ambrosino Subject: Re: BREAD Digest V6 #23 Message-ID: <9506071743.AA1765@notes.cch.com> I'm pretty sure DAK sold its breadmaker company to someone so I don't know who would handle repairs - but I've had a Dak for about 8 years, and 2 years ago mine started turning out hockey pucks - out of the blue! After weeping miserably for a while, I tried different things to fix the problem. It may just be superstition at this point, but I now am back to regular high quality loaves by: Moving the Breadmaker! I keep it on the floor away from the window - don't know why this should work but it does Proofing the yeast with the warm liquid and sugar/honey/fruitjuice [I never used to have to do this And adding loads of gluten [I usualy use whole grain flours, but I even add it now with white flour] I also don't do the yeast on the bottom thing anymore [it says to do that in the Dak instructions - I just proof the yeast as above and pour it on top of the other ingredients Last but not least, I cover the glass dome - aluminum foil and sometimes even a towel on top - watch the air vents! Hope this helps - and if you do find out where to get service on a DAK let us know on the line - mine's fine today but if it ever breaks I'll be weeping again ;) Cherie ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 09 Jun 95 15:06:09 EST From: gunterman@ccmailpc.ctron.com Subject: Re: BREAD Digest V6 #23 Message-ID: <9505098027.AA802735569@ccmailpc.ctron.com> Well I can definitavely say 2 things on this subject... Dak _IS_ out of business! too bad too cause I really like my "R2-D2" (5 LB loaf) model DAK machine.. Welbilt serveice centers _can_ service the unit. however some of them may be reluctant to do so for "political" reasons. ie.. oyu bought Dak rather than ours.. suffer!" But they _ARE_ the same thing! just a different lable.... _______________________________________________________________________________ ----------------------------- Date: Tue, 30 May 1995 18:21:55 -0400 (EDT) From: CURTISK@NKU.EDU Subject: Dak Message-ID: <01HR4GMB73SUBWC153@NKU.EDU> We have a friend here who has a Dak breadmaker which is not putting out good bread. I told him that maybe it was the breadmaker and someone said that they went out of business. Is this so? Who would handle repairs for this? He really loves his breadmaker and makes a lot of bread Mary Curtis ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jun 1995 11:59:01 -0400 From: ephraim@stonewire.com (Ephraim Vishniac) Subject: Spelt bread -- thanks for the help! Message-ID: <95Jun12.120113edt.13444@gate.stonewire.com> Thanks to help from Ann Miner and Susan Chapin, I baked a palatable loaf of spelt bread this week. It tastes and smells very much like whole wheat bread, but somewhat milder. I liked it. My three-year-old son ate it without remark, but the eight-year-old refused to try it. My wife doesn't care for whole-wheat bread, and didn't care for this, either. Averaging out the suggestions I received, I arrived at this recipe for a small loaf: 1 tsp. yeast 2 cups spelt flour (Arrowhead Mills) 1/4 cup vital wheat gluten 1 tbsp. dry milk 2 tbsp. sugar 1 tsp. salt 1 tbsp. butter 7 oz. (7/8 cup) water I used the standard white-bread cycle. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Jun 95 08:21:47 -0500 From: cbacke@lsumc.edu (Cheryl Backes) Subject: troubleshooting bread machines Message-ID: <9506091321.AA20406@unixsrv1.lsumc.edu> I appreciate all of the feedback regarding my problems with the Breadman Plus. Sometimes I feel like it would be easier to make the bread by "hand." I have thought that maybe I am expecting too much from the machine, and I would like to know exactly what other people's experiences are with loaf loft, etc. My dough usually rises very high, but then sinkswith sourdou flat or sunken. The highest loaf I've ever achieved (even using the maximum amount of ingredients) is about 8 inches. Is this normal? None of my loaves have rounded tops, either. I do tend to use part whole grains in all of the loaves - could this be affecting it? I'm starting to suspect the humidity down here in New Orleans (I usually reduce the liquid in all recipes by at least 2 Tbsp.). Does anyone else out there have a similar experience with climate? I have tried dough enhancers, etc., all with the same results. Should I think that maybe there is a problem with the machine? I've had it 6 months, and have tried just about everything I could think of (or that was suggested), and I still can't get consistently good results. HELP! Cheryl ------------------------------ End of Bread Digest V6 #24 ******************************