Date: Mon, 10 Jan 1994 Bread Digest Mon, 10 Jan 1994 Volume 5 : Issue 1 Today's Topics: Any experience converting recipies? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 10 Jan 1994 09:29:49 EST From: Jim Carey Subject: Any experience converting recipies? Message-ID: <00978523.B5259E00.6383@cykick.infores.com> Does anyone have any experience converting a hand-made recipe to a machine recipe? Any pointers? Thanks. ------------------------------ End of Bread Digest V5 #1 ****************************** Bread Digest Mon, 17 Jan 1994 Volume 5 : Issue 2 Today's Topics: Bread Recipes Converting manual bread recipies Converting Recipies High altitude baking... My bread has a hole in the bottom! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 11 Jan 1994 21:05:46 -1000 (KST) From: 36FS/DOW <36fsdow@emh.osan.af.mil> Subject: Bread Recipes Message-ID: <9401120705.AA14968@emh.osan.af.mil> I don't have any converted recipes, but I've got two cookbooks worth of machine bread recipes. Would any of those help? -Dave Halla ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Jan 94 08:06:00 est From: "Eisenreich, Pete" Subject: Converting manual bread recipies Message-ID: <2D32A66C@spacenet> > From: Jim Carey > Does anyone have any experience converting a hand-made recipe to a > machine recipe? Any pointers? I've had fairly good luck doing this. The key is to get the flour/water/yeast ratio right. The flour/liquid is not hard, you just reserve some of the liquid and add it slowly as it kneads. (Write down how much liquid for next time.) You probably have a reasonable feel for how much yeast your machine needs. I use 2/3 tsp per cup of flour, and about 3 oz liquid / C. flour. I frequently measure all liquids together, including eggs, honey, etc.. Bread with whole grains or non-wheat flours may require a little more yeast. A slack dough with all white flour doesn't need quite as much. This is for a Hitachi which doesn't seem to need as much yeast as some others. Here's a recipe i recently made in the machine, worked fine. Dilly Casserole Bread, 1960 Pillsbury Bake-off winner. 2.5 C Flour 2 Tb Sugar 1 Tb Dried Minced Onion 2 ts Dill Seed 2/3 ts Salt 1/4 ts Baking Soda 2 ts Yeast 1/4 C Water 1 Tb Butter/Marg. 1 Egg 1 C Creamed Cottage Cheese The 2.5 C flour is kinda odd, but it was half of the published 5 C. I show 2 tsp yeast because most machines use a little more than the Hitachi and I use a little extra on the "rapid" setting. The bread is quite good. I've avoided dill bread probably because of my brain associating it w/ dill pickles, but I remember my mother making this when I was a kid. It was recently re-published in the the Baltimore_Sun, so I gave it a try. Also, I ignored all instructions about heating things on the stove and cooling back down etc.. Just Nuked the cottage cheese for a few seconds to take the chil off. Good luck. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Jan 94 16:43:55 -0600 From: mkjensen@iastate.edu Subject: Converting Recipies Message-ID: <9401142243.AA09041@iastate.edu> I've managed to convert loads of recipes from hand-made to breadmaker without any problems. All you need to do is scale down the quantities of the ingredients so that you have the appropriate amount of flour (ie two cups of flour for a one pound loaf, three cups for a 1.5 lb loaf etc.) then add the ingredients in the order that you normally would for your 'maker. For example, if you have a recipe that calls for 12 cups of flour, 5 cups of water, 2 packets of yeast etc., and you have a 1.5 lb breadmaker, you would use 3c flour, 1 1/4 c water, and 1 1/2 tsp yeast. Handy conversion factors: 1/4 cup equals 4 Tbsp. 1tbsp = 3 tsp If I remember correctly, one packet of yeast is about 1 tbsp. I also find that one small egg works well in recipes that call for 1/2 egg. You may have to play around a bit to find the amount of liquid (usually give or take about a tablespoon) and the amount of yeast (to compensate for shorter rising times) that gives the best results. I have several converted recipes for things like Sally Lunn and cinnamon rolls if anyone is interested. Good Luck! -Martha mkjensen@iastate.edu ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Jan 94 15:44:30 -0500 From: mikeg@endgame.gsfc.nasa.gov Subject: Re: High altitude baking... Message-ID: <199401102044.AA02979@endgame.gsfc.nasa.gov> Is this subject done with? I caught just the tail end and did not know if what little I know about has been said... with my bread machine (a Regal) was a few pages outlining what to do in high altitudes (and high humidities, I think). If there is some interest I could bring it in and post it. And from what I know about converting reciepes is use it the same way you would if you were making by hand. If the loaf yeilds 2 loaves, half it. A one loaf recipe that calls for under 2 1/4 cups of flour should use the small loaf setting on your machine (ie 1lb.) A one loaf recipe that cals for over 2 1/3 cups of flour should use the large loaf setting on your machine (ie 1.5lb). (Unfortuneatly I don't have my book in front of me, so I hope my memory on the amount of cups of flour is correct.) Later, Mike mikeg@asylum.gsfc.nasa.gov ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Jan 94 09:50:52 CST From: JRALLS@VM1.TUCC.TRINITY.EDU Subject: My bread has a hole in the bottom! Hi bread bakers, I'm new to this list--I just received a Maxim (made by Salton) model BB-1 Accu-Bakery for Christmas, and I love it. It makes great bread (the small loaf only). Following the instructions included with the machine, I remove the bread case from the machine as soon as baking is finished. Then I turn the case upside down and "turn the kneading blade mounting shaft one full rotation and shake bread case several times to release loaf." The bread comes out easily, BUT there is _always_ a hole in the bottom of the loaf caused by the kneading blade. The first few times I thought maybe it was because the machine was new, but now... Has anyone else had this problem? My husband wondered if rubbing some cooking oil on the kneading blade before adding the ingredients would help. The bread tastes fine, but would look better without a hole ripped into the bottom. (This also causes the blade to be covered with bread and to stick in the case.) Thanks for your help! JoEllen JoEllen Ralls, Library Asst. IV jralls@vm1.tucc.trinity.edu Authorities control (For real!) So many books, Maddux Library, Trinity University so little time... San Antonio, Texas ------------------------------ End of Bread Digest V5 #2 ****************************** Bread Digest Wed, 26 Jan 1994 Volume 5 : Issue 3 Today's Topics: Cheese & Onion Bread Hole in bottom of bread hole in bread Old World Rye Bread ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 23 Jan 1994 01:02:18 From: esandova@crazyeddie.win.net (Edward D. Sandoval) Subject: Cheese & Onion Bread Message-ID: <323@crazyeddie.win.net> >From the Zojirushi Recipe Book Cheese 'N' Onion Bread 1 1/4 cups buttermilk 2 Tbs butter 1 Tbs sugar 1 tsp salt 1/4 tsp garlic powder 3 1/2 cups bread flour 2 1/2 tsp active dry yeast When beep sounds: 1/2 cup shredded sharp cheddar cheese 1/3 cup minced onion Into baking pan measure milk, butter, sugar, salt, garlic powder, and flour. Sprinkle yeast over flour. Select "light" baking degree; and "raisin bread" program. Press "start." When beep sounds (about 30 minutes into program), open lid and add cheese and onions. Machine will continue kneading while you add ingredients. Close lid and allow cycle to finish. Notes: This is one of my favorites cheese breads, along with the two from Donna Rathmell German, who is published by Nitty Gritty Cookbooks. =================================================================== Edward D. Sandoval Internet: esandova@crazyeddie.win.net 17765 SW Kinnaman Road GEnie: crazy.eddie@genie.geis.com Aloha, OR 97007-3117 Office: U.S. Bank of Oregon Internet: ususbc5b@ibmmail.com Mail Stop ORC-5044 IBMmail: USUSBC5B 17650 NE Sandy Boulevard Phone: 503 261 3937 Gresham, OR 97230 FAX: 503 261 3992 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Jan 94 12:03:03 EST From: fritz@ben.dev.upenn.edu (Katherine Fritz) Subject: Hole in bottom of bread Message-ID: <9401181703.AA15081@ben.dev.upenn.edu> As far as I know, there is NO bread machine on the market that does not leave a hole in the bottom of the loaf from the mixing blade/paddle. If you want bread without a hole in the bottom, my suggestion is to use the machine on the manual/dough cycle, remove the dough, reshape and bake it in a regular bread pan. Personally I would rather have fresh bread with a hole in the bottom than no fresh bread at all. This is not a flame, but I find this a little baffling -- bread machines are designed for convenience, not cosmetics. The other thing that baffles me is when people say they don't like bread machines because they don't like the shape of the loaf. ***** Meanwhile, a hearty "yes! yes!" to the offer of recipes for Sally Lunn! ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Jan 94 09:44:20 EST From: sandy@pt.Cyanamid.COM (Sandy Silverman) Subject: hole in bread Message-ID: <9401181444.AA20359@nmr1.pt.Cyanamid.COM> Just a guess but how about seasoning as you would a cast iron pan, i.e.put some oil on it and run it on the bake cycle. Afterwards, don't clean it with soap; just hot water. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Jan 1994 22:51:22 From: esandova@crazyeddie.win.net (Edward D. Sandoval) Subject: Old World Rye Bread Message-ID: <304@crazyeddie.win.net> >From Continental Mills/Krusteaz, Seattle WA Old World Rye Bread 2 1/2 cups bread flour 1 cup + 2 Tbs warm water 1/3 cup molasses 1 1/2 Tbs vegetable oil 1 tsp salt 1 cup Medium Rye Flour 1 Tbs unsweetened cocoa (optional) 1 Tbs caraway seeds (optional) 2 tsp active dry yeast Place all ingrediants in bread pan, adding yeast last. (Yeast level may need adjusting for various bread machines.) Select "Light Crust" setting and press "Start." After the baking cycle ends, remove bread from pan, place on wire rack, and allow to cool for 1 hour. Notes: I find this to be a great rye recipe! I like a strong flavored rye and use both options to get the full effect. This recipe rises better than some others, but that is probably because the actual rye flour is only one cup. =================================================================== Edward D. Sandoval Internet: esandova@crazyeddie.win.net 17765 SW Kinnaman Road GEnie: crazy.eddie@genie.geis.com Aloha, OR 97007-3117 Office: U.S. Bank of Oregon Internet: ususbc5b@ibmmail.com Mail Stop ORC-5044 IBMmail: USUSBC5B 17650 NE Sandy Boulevard Phone: 503 261 3937 Gresham, OR 97230 FAX: 503 261 3992 ------------------------------ End of Bread Digest V5 #3 ****************************** Bread Digest Mon, 31 Jan 1994 Volume 5 : Issue 4 Today's Topics: BREAD Digest V5 #3 (2 msgs) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 26 Jan 1994 09:08:13 -0700 From: Alan Silverstein Subject: Re: BREAD Digest V5 #3 Message-ID: <9401261608.AA22011@hpfcajs.fc.hp.com> > ...baffles me when people say they don't like bread machines > because they don't like the shape of the loaf. I guess these folks want to have their bread and eat it too. :-) What's surprising to me is that after making about 50 loaves, I don't use the machine much any more... Because it's a hassle to load it up (takes ten minutes) and clean up afterward (takes ten more minutes). Weird huh? All those great recipes and I just make an occasional basic loaf that *usually* rises OK. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Jan 94 09:49:59 EST From: lark aho Subject: Re: BREAD Digest V5 #3 Message-ID: <27JAN94.10620013.0064.MUSIC@NMUMUS> Hi My name is Lark. I AM A MEDICAL LAB TECHNICIAN, BUT ALSO A WIFE AND MOTHER AND MY FAMILY LOVES BREAD. SO I've been making bread for twenty plus years. I owned a bread machine once, but I have been more successful just kneading the dough on a lighly floured surface and feeling it's texture with my hands. You add additional flour to the dough and continue kneading the dough until it is no longer sticky but smooth and springs back at you when you touch it. My family likes potato bread the best. I use milk, vegetable water and eggs in all my receipes, sometimes butter. I always get highrising loaves with lots of flavor. Does anyone else still knead there dough by hand? ------------------------------ End of Bread Digest V5 #4 ****************************** Bread Digest Wed, 9 Feb 1994 Volume 5 : Issue 5 Today's Topics: BREAD Digest V5 #4 (2 msgs) kneeding Making bread by hand ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 07 Feb 1994 23:03:21 -0500 (EST) From: HONN@delphi.com Subject: Message-ID: <01H8MDCW32G28ZGZKI@delphi.com> Hello, I live in Florida where the humidity is kind of unreal. Ive taken a few bread classes locally here, but my loaves are almost never the proper texture. I need some help in finding a a way to correct this problem ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 02 Feb 1994 04:50:11 MST From: Steve Subject: Re: BREAD Digest V5 #4 Message-ID: <0097970F.741EFAC0.12278@fhhosp.ab.ca> >Sender: Bread-mgr@cykick.infores.com >What's surprising to me is that after making about 50 loaves, I don't >use the machine much any more... Because it's a hassle to load it up >(takes ten minutes) and clean up afterward (takes ten more minutes). >Weird huh? All those great recipes and I just make an occasional basic >loaf that *usually* rises OK. I've had mine of over a year now and I haven't bought a loaf of bread since. It takes me about 5 min max to load it up and cleaning consists of filling it with water, letting it sit for a bit and giving it a quick wipe. I bag lunches and nothing beats fresh, hot bread every morning. On weekends, when I usually do something in the outdoors, everyone is alway trying to get me to trade sandwhiches with them! :-) -Steve H ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Feb 1994 10:59:34 -0500 (EST) From: "Allen J. Michielsen" Subject: Re: BREAD Digest V5 #4 Message-ID: > From: lark aho > ......MY FAMILY LOVES BREAD. SO I've been making bread for twenty > plus years. I owned a bread machine once, but I have been more > successful just kneading the dough on a lighly floured surface and > .... My family likes potato bread the best. ... I kinda do the opposite of what you do. I use the bread machine extensivly to simply avoid kneeding by hand. I'll make about 5 loaves on avergae on a sunday afternoon. Xmass week this year, I made 8 loaves and 15 dozen cookies on a sunday afternoon, Last year xmass week I made 20 loaves of bread on a sunday afternoon. (we do a -exchange- at work). I remove the dough before the end of the manual cycle, after about 25 minutes on my machines, move it to a bowl, and start the next. Then I do the punch down, and loaf shaping into the final shape when the next dough is ready. I especially like using the bread machine to cream the butter and blend in the sugar for many cookie recipts. When I'm done using my machine as a mixer, I bake one final loaf in it, to ease cleanup. After cookies, the loaf has a super hard, crunchy, and sweet crust. yummm. I want to try making potato (or potatoe) and chestnut flour. I'm thining about using a dehydrator to dry the chestnuts or potatos then my grain mill. Does anybody have any ideas, or suggestions ?? ) or does anybodu know how to make potato flour ( cheers, al ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 02 Feb 94 09:41:09 CST From: "Paula Danowski" Subject: kneeding Message-ID: <9401027602.AA760210869@ccmail.wiu.bgu.edu> Lark - I've been debating about purchasing a bread machine as my family loves homemade bread (I have 2 teenage boys who consume mass quantities!!). BUT -- I'm with you -- I enjoy kneeding the bread and if I don't feel that I have the time to do that -- I simply let my KitchenAide do the work!! That way I can put the "swirl" in my cinnamon bread!! I would love to have your recipe for potato bread -- I've not tried making this before -- it sounds really good!! Paula danowskp@ccmail.wiu.bgu.edu ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Feb 94 13:11:59 EST From: garlow@sunland.gsfc.nasa.gov (Joanne Garlow) Subject: Making bread by hand Message-ID: <9402021811.AA26353@gsfc743> Someone who likes to make bread by hand wrote in recently (I deleted the message by accident so I don't know their name) asked if anyone still makes bread by hand, because she thought that was the still the superior way in spite of having a bread machine. I have this argument with people all the time: Bread machines DO NOT replace making bread by hand. They replace BUYING bread from the store. I can still make bread by hand anytime I want. But now I have fresh baked bread first thing in the morning (instead of cold cereal). I can make bread 3 or 4 times a week (something that would grow old VERY quickly if I was doing it by hand and each time took 4 hours). And today, for example, I am having my parents over for dinner, so while I am at work, my bread machine is making fresh french bread. It will be ready about 15 minutes after my parent arrive, so they will be greeted with that wonderful smell as soon as they walk in the door. These are times when I would never have made homemade bread anyway. ------------------------------ End of Bread Digest V5 #5 ****************************** Bread Digest Fri, 18 Feb 1994 Volume 5 : Issue 6 Today's Topics: Bread machines vs. bread by hand ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 9 Feb 94 14:28:15 EST From: fritz@ben.dev.upenn.edu (Katherine Fritz) Subject: Bread machines vs. bread by hand Message-ID: <9402091928.AA08984@ben.dev.upenn.edu> I'm a little baffled about messages recently from people who say they would never use a bread machine or won't use one again, or to say that kneading by hand is superior, etc., etc. I thought this list was for bread machine users. Joanne Garlow, I like your distinction about bread machines replacing *buying* bread from the store. That's how I think of mine! I would never claim that bread machines make better bread than those who hand mix, hand knead, etc., etc., but I do kinda bridle when folks ask me why don't I make my bread by hand instead of machine. Fact is, if I didn't have a bread machine, I would never get homemade bread. With the bread machine, I do. Heck, just because I don't take the training wheels off my bike doesn't mean I'm not riding a bike! :-) I've had my Welbilt ABM-100 for three years, and it's the only appliance that lives on my counter -- the rest get put away (though I gave my husband an espresso machine for Christmas, and it appears to have taken up residence next door to the R2D2 ). Hey, whatever happened to the person who offered a bread machine version of Sally Lunn?? Katie ------------------------------ End of Bread Digest V5 #6 ****************************** Bread Digest Wed, 23 Feb 1994 Volume 5 : Issue 7 Today's Topics: BREAD Digest V5 #6 program modification/fastforward/delay/interruption... Sally Lunn for bread machines. Which Machine? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 18 Feb 94 11:41:06 MST From: nkn@Solbourne.COM (Neil Nelson) Subject: Re: BREAD Digest V5 #6 Message-ID: <9402181841.AA15684@underdog.Solbourne.COM> Katherine Fritz asks: >Hey, whatever happened to the person who offered a bread machine version >of Sally Lunn?? Donna German has a delicious Sally Lunn recipe in her first book. If you don't have that book (and everybody should!), I can try to remember to bring the book in to work with me and I will submit her recipe. Neil K. Nelson UUCP: {uunet,boulder}!stan!nkn Solbourne Computer, Inc. Domain: nkn@solbourne.COM 1900 Pike Road Phone: (303) 678-4302 Longmont, CO 80501 Fax: (303) 678-4716 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Feb 1994 18:15:52 EST From: tvasicek@watson.princeton.edu Subject: program modification/fastforward/delay/interruption... Message-ID: <0097A66E.277322A5.9411@watson.princeton.edu> I have a DAK Turbobaker IV (made by Welbilt). Is the manual setting only for kneading the dough? Or is there a way to modify the programs? I am partly responding to, and expanding on Dan Wentz's question about program modification and restarting in case of a power failure. In making the bread machines nearly idiot-proof, they have made them completely inflexible. However, one feature I would not recommend is an automatic resart function for after a power failure. An extended power failure will permit the dough to rise over the top of the bowl and fall onto the heating element. A situation that has arisen in my kitchen several times. It is wonderful to wake up to the smell of fresh bread baking. However, being awakened an hour earlier than expected by the fire alarm, and finding the house full of smoke is an experience I would rather not repeat. I know what Dan Wentz means though. It would be nice to restart the machine after a brief power failure, such as when the silly thing walks away and pulls its plug during the knead cycle. Furthermore, I have occasionally wanted to delay the bake cycle for a slow-to-rise loaf. And I have often wanted to start the bake cycle early when the loaf has risen too quickly and I happen to be around to see it pouring over the heating element. The only solution I know is to pull some or all of it out and bake in my other oven. In these cases I have clearly added too much liquid, too little flour, or too much yeast, etc. But I am often in a hurry and make mistakes. Also, I like to experiment. So there is considerable variability in the loft of my loaves. I take notes and correct the problem with the particular recipe the next time. But the machine's inflexibility is clamping a conservative hand on my bread making. I am willing to live with that. The machine has been our primary bread provider for the last year or so. But it would be nice to have fast-forward and pause capabilities. Of course, as we are often reminded, you can always remove the dough and finish it by hand. If you happen to be around... tv ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 Feb 1994 21:07:59 From: esandova@crazyeddie.win.net (Edward D. Sandoval) Subject: Sally Lunn for bread machines. Message-ID: <356@crazyeddie.win.net> Someone had posted, looking for "Sally Lunn" conversions for breadmaking machines. I have found two. ==================================================================== >From "The Bread Machine Cookbook", 1991 by Donna Rathmell Germann, Nitty Gritty Cookbooks SALLY LUNN Small Medium Large milk 2 Tbs 2 1/2 Tbs 1/4 cup water 1/4 cup 1/3 cup 1/2 cup margarine/butter 3 1/2 Tbs 4 1/2 Tbs 7 Tbs eggs 1 1/2 2 3 salt 3/4 tsp 1 tsp 1 1/2 tsp sugar 2 Tbs 2 1/2 Tbs 1/4 cup bread flour 1 1/2 cup 2 cups 3 cups yeast 1/2 tsp 3/4 tsp 1 tsp Note that this is a very high rising loaf. Use less yeast than normal and DO NOT decrease salt amount. ======================================================================= >From "The Bread Machine Cookbook III", 1992 by Donna Rathmell Germann, Nitty Gritty Cookbooks HERB SALLY LUNN Small Medium Large heavy cream 1/2 cup 5/8 cup 3/4 cup milk 1/4 cup 3/8 cup 1/3 cup eggs 1 1 1/2 2 butter/margarine 2 Tbs 2 1/2 Tbs 3 Tbs sugar 2 tsp 2 1/2 Tbs 3 Tbs salt 1/2 tsp 3/4 tsp 1 tsp basil 1 tsp 1 1/4 tsp 1 1/2 tsp bread flour 2 cups 2 1/2 cups 3 cups yeast 1 tsp 1 1/2 tsp 2 tsp Oregano or rosemary may be used as well, if desired. Evaporated skim milk may be substituted for the cream if counting calories. =================================================================== Edward D. Sandoval Internet: esandova@crazyeddie.win.net 17765 SW Kinnaman Road GEnie: crazy.eddie@genie.geis.com Aloha, OR 97007-3117 Office: U.S. Bank of Oregon Internet: ususbc5b@ibmmail.com Mail Stop ORC-5044 IBMmail: USUSBC5B 17650 NE Sandy Boulevard Phone: 503 261 3937 Gresham, OR 97230 FAX: 503 261 3992 ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 Feb 1994 21:51:33 From: esandova@crazyeddie.win.net (Edward D. Sandoval) Subject: Re: Which Machine? Message-ID: <357@crazyeddie.win.net> Original from Dan Wenz: >I have a borrowed Regal 538N which has few variable settings available. >Is/are there machine(s) available which would allow several settings >for baking times or temperatures, and which would allow me to stop in >the middle of a cycle and restart at some other point, or to restart >after a power failure (battery memory backup), or am I just dreaming? >Thanks in advance. > > ==================================================================== Dan, I have a Zojirushi Model: BBCC-S15 I picked it up for the house for some of the same reasons you meantioned. Although it is not a elaborate as you or I desire, it is still has enough items to make it worth considering over the others. It has the usual "White Bread", "Quick Baking", "Rasin Bread", "French Bread", and "Dough Setting" that you would expect. It also has two you wouldn't, "Cake" and "Jam", but that is getting off the main track here. The menu item it has that others do not is "Home Made" or "Home Made with Memory" setting. You pick your "White Bread" setting and crust "Degree" as normal. But instead of pressing "Start", you press the "Home Made" button. It will begin to go through the knead, rest, knead, rise, stir down, rise, and bake stages... except you must press the "Home Made" button to move it along through the stages. The clock will count the number of minutes in the current stage for you. Pressing and holding or pressing twice quickly will allow you to move through and skip various stages. The "Home Made Memory" setting will automatically run the last entered "Home Made" program. What is unfortunate is that there is no storage facility to keep two or even ten of these home built programs available for recall. It seems to me that it would be very easy for them to add this. They already are keeping one. These custom stages are very good for people who have very slow rising mixes. The stage maximums are: Preheating Knead 1 Rest Knead 2 Rise 1 Rise 2 Bake ----------- ------- ------- ------- ------- ------- ----- Auto 1-10 m 0-30 m 0-120 m 0-30 m 0-120 m 0-120 m 0-60 m I have used the "Home Made" to skip through to make up for times I may have forgotten to add raisin, nuts, etc.. to a dough or any other time I have broken out of one of the regular cycles. You do have to move along the remainder manually, but it saves you from starting over completely. I find it really helps in giving Rye bread and Whole Wheat bread longer times to rise. If you get all your kneading done in the first stage, and use all the rising times, this gets you up to six (6) hours of rising... more than enough I would think!!! =============================================================== As far as a power outage, the Zojirushi has an on-board battery. It is Lithium and is suppose to last 4-5 years. The manual has these comments about power outage: WHEN THE POWER GOES OFF If the power goes off while the machine is running through a cycle, the operation will not be affected if the power returns within ten minutes. If the timer is being used, it will continue to operate. If power is interrupted and returns after more than ten minutes, the cycle will stop and the "Completion Time" indication on the display panel will blink. If the timer had been set, AND it has passed the starting time by more than ten minutes, the panel display will blink "Completion Time" and the machine will start the cycle. If power is interrupted for an extended length of time, remove the dough and begin again with new ingredients when the power resumes. I have never had it fail me in a cycle, and I have come back many times when I have bread ready and the microwave needs it's clock set... so I know I have had some power flickers or outages. =================================================================== Edward D. Sandoval Internet: esandova@crazyeddie.win.net 17765 SW Kinnaman Road GEnie: crazy.eddie@genie.geis.com Aloha, OR 97007-3117 Office: U.S. Bank of Oregon Internet: ususbc5b@ibmmail.com Mail Stop ORC-5044 IBMmail: USUSBC5B 17650 NE Sandy Boulevard Phone: 503 261 3937 Gresham, OR 97230 FAX: 503 261 3992 ------------------------------ End of Bread Digest V5 #7 ****************************** Bread Digest Mon, 28 Feb 1994 Volume 5 : Issue 8 Today's Topics: Bread Makers high-rising bread Squaw Bread like Chart House makes ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 25 Feb 94 00:40:00 -0500 From: tim.bandy@pcohio.com (Tim Bandy) Subject: Bread Makers Message-ID: <24.21945.5.0CB2D778@pcohio.com> From: tim.bandy@pcohio.com (Tim Bandy) Ma> Hello fellow breadsters. I am new to the list. I found out about it Ma> from some 1991 & 1992 files from a shareware CDROM disk. Ma> We have a R2D2 type refurbished Welbilt bread maker we bought a year Ma> ago from DMART. So far, we have not had the problems I found in the Ma> Bread Maker Digest files from two years ago, and we do use the maker Ma> a lot! We decided to try it out due to our frustrated attempts to buy Ma> healthy breads, i.e., bread without fat added to it. Ma> We have a question. We tried a whole grain, no fat added, bagel recipe Ma> that was posted in 1992. The recipe called for 30 seconds in boiling Ma> water. We got raw bagels with 30seconds and we got ruined bagels when Ma> we experimented with longer times. Does anyone have a similar recipe Ma> that works, or any suggestions, such as should we bake them instead? Ma> Thanks, Tim Bandy Ma> ___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12 ___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Feb 94 15:13:47 -0700 From: Lisa Stroyan Subject: high-rising bread Message-ID: <9402232213.AA23927@vger.sde.hp.com> > Furthermore, I have occasionally wanted to delay the bake cycle > for a slow-to-rise loaf. And I have often wanted to start the > bake cycle early when the loaf has risen too quickly and I happen > to be around to see it pouring over the heating element. The only > solution I know is to pull some or all of it out and bake in my > other oven. I just punch it down when that happens to me (and adjust next time). Sometimes this works, sometimes there won't be enough rising time left in the cycle for it to get back up to normal height. Lisa ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Feb 94 15:17:16 -0700 From: Lisa Stroyan Subject: Squaw Bread like Chart House makes Message-ID: <9402232217.AA23929@vger.sde.hp.com> I am looking for a bread machine recipe which duplicates the Squaw Bread like Chart House makes (that really dark bread they serve, not the sourdough). We don't have a local Chart House so I haven't asked them for the recipe; I just have a friend that loves the stuff (I like it a lot too) and would like to be able to make it at home. I know of the one in Bread Machine Magic but it isn't the same. Any ideas? Thanks, Lisa ------------------------------ End of Bread Digest V5 #8 ****************************** Bread Digest Mon, 7 Mar 1994 Volume 5 : Issue 9 Today's Topics: bagels BREAD Digest V5 #8 (2 msgs) Red Lobster Cheese Garlic Bread Sour Dough Starter Today's invention: Cinnamon Apple Bread ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 01 Mar 1994 10:29:28 EST From: tvasicek@watson.princeton.edu Subject: bagels Message-ID: <0097AC76.53561AE5.13715@watson.princeton.edu> Tim Bandy, Did you experiment with different baking times after boiling the bagels? tv ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Feb 1994 11:06:24 -0800 (PST) From: "Tom L. Wallace" Subject: BREAD Digest V5 #8 Message-ID: <9402281107.aa17988@jsbus.jsbus.com> From: Lisa Stroyan Subject: high-rising bread Message-ID: <9402232213.AA23927@vger.sde.hp.com> > Furthermore, I have occasionally wanted to delay the bake cycle > for a slow-to-rise loaf. And I have often wanted to start the > bake cycle early when the loaf has risen too quickly and I happen > to be around to see it pouring over the heating element. The only > solution I know is to pull some or all of it out and bake in my > other oven. The Zororuchi (spelling?) has the ability to set your rise times to custom. My wife is the baker in our house (I got kicked off bread detail when I fried an engine trying to make sourdough) but she says that it is really easy to do, and sets our ww bread for an extra 1/2 hour or so rising time. -Tom ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Tom Wallace - Director, Distribution Sales 108 Whispering Pines Dr. JSB Corporation Scotts Valley, CA 95066 408-438-8300 ext 209; (in U.S. & Canada) 800-359-3408 FAX 408-438-8360 tomwa@jsbus.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Mar 94 11:54 EST From: popcorn@cyberspace.org (Valerie Mates) Subject: Re: BREAD Digest V5 #8 Message-ID: In response to Tim Bandy's question about bagels (which a million people are probably also responding to, so I won't quote the original question here).... To make bagels, you both boil them *and* then bake them in an oven. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Feb 94 20:10:17 PST From: Renee@cup.portal.com Subject: Red Lobster Cheese Garlic Bread Message-ID: <9402282010.1.28616@cup.portal.com> I need the recipe for this. If you have it, please post it here! Renee Roberts ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 03 Mar 1994 13:25:44 -0500 (EST) From: DEAN@suvax1.stetson.edu Subject: Sour Dough Starter Message-ID: <01H9JC4HZ976000PF4@suvax1.stetson.edu> Is this list exclusively for bread machine users? The list description did not indicate this. My question concerns sour dough bread. I have a recipe that uses an non-flour starter. When feeding the starter, you add sugar and potato flakes (instant potato), but no flour. The bread was delicious, if a bit sweet.We found that less sugar produced a loaf that rose beautifully and was not too sweet. Unfortunately, my son dropped the jar of starter and broke the jar. I would love to be able to make this wonderful bread again. Any suggestions? Thanks! Norma Dean ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 07 Mar 1994 08:29:17 -0800 From: Patti Beadles Subject: Today's invention: Cinnamon Apple Bread Message-ID: <9403071629.AA02715@xtg817.intel.com> I decided to try something different last night. It's getting good reviews in the office this morning, so here's the recipe: Cinnamon Apple Bread 1 1/4 C Apple juice or apple cider 1 t salt 2 T butter 2 T brown sugar 3 C flour 1 pkg active dry yeast This makes a 1.5 lb. loaf and works wonderfully in my Zojirushi. I used the light crust setting. This is the best-smelling loaf I've ever made. ------------------------------ End of Bread Digest V5 #9 ****************************** Bread Digest Mon, 14 Mar 1994 Volume 5 : Issue 10 Today's Topics: Apple Cinnamon Bread BREAD Digest V5 #9 More Cinnamon Apple Bread SANYO BREADMAKER Saving Leftovers ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 07 Mar 1994 14:12:04 -0800 From: Patti Beadles Subject: Apple Cinnamon Bread Message-ID: <9403072212.AA04271@xtg817.intel.com> I typed too quickly... a teaspoon or so of cinnamon, too. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 08 Mar 1994 12:08:22 EST From: GDVE80A@prodigy.com (MS SALLI E SCHWARTZ) Subject: Re: BREAD Digest V5 #9 Message-ID: <013.00432174.GDVE80A@prodigy.com> I too did not relize that this list is for bread machines only. Is it possible to include a topic for those of us who believe in the "old fashioned" way. I would love to share recipes and knowlege with others but can find no other venue to do this. Does anyone else wish to participate? Salli Schwartz GDVE80A@prodigy.com OR HONN@gate.net OR HONN@delphi.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Mar 1994 16:59:00 -0500 (EST) From: Kathy Nicklas-Varraso Subject: More Cinnamon Apple Bread Message-ID: Amazingly enough, I've been expirimenting with a Cinnamon bread as well: Cinnamon Apple Swirl Bread 2-1/4 cups flour 1 tsp salt 2 Tbs. Brown Sugar 2 Tbs. Butter 1 Tbs. Dry Milk (Optional) 1 tsp. Cinnamon 1 Cup water or milk You can go one of two ways here: Either use the "Dough" setting, and roll up the dough with the filling, then bake in a conventional manner, or add some chopped apple at the beep. The first way looks better, the second way is easier. Filling: 1 Apple, peeled, cored, and chopped into 1/4" dice 3 Tbs. Brown Sugar 1 tsp. Cinnamon 1 Tbs. Flour 1/4 tsp. nutmeg (optional) Mix all the dry stuff together, then toss over the chopped apple. Roll out the dough into a rectangle, then spread the mixture evenly over the rectangle. Roll the dough along the short edge, like a jelly roll. Place in a greased loaf pan, let rise until doubled, about 45 minutes, then bake in a 350F degree oven for about 40 minutes, until the loaf is nice and brown, and sounds hollow when tapped. Let cool on a rack, devour. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 Mar 1994 14:04:00 -0500 From: glenn.slingsby@canrem.com (Glenn Slingsby) Subject: SANYO BREADMAKER Message-ID: <60.74281.104.0C1980B1@canrem.com> I have recently read some archived files of the first 2 volumes of the Bread Digest and at that time I guess Sanyo hadn't yet started marketing their breadmaker. I purchased one of these a couple of months ago and was wondering if this model has been discussed in the past; if not I would be happy to upload some info. Glenn.Slingsby@canrem.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Mar 94 14:59:35 PST From: Bill Wilhelmi Subject: Saving Leftovers Message-ID: <9403072259.AA02036@hpcvxmk0.cv.hp.com> I really love Grand Central's Sour White rustic sourdough bread. You can get it in Portland and Seattle. This is my model bread for my own baking. I have had a problem with keeping rustic sourdough breads fresh after slicing/ripping off pieces. If I just keep the bread in the paper sack, the exposed inner bread gets stale, but the crust remains crunchy & chewy. If I put the whole thing in a plastic bread bag, the whole loaf stays fresh, but the crust turns to taffy. I have found the following solution to work well. As a compromise, I now cover the exposed part of the bread with plastic wrap, leaving the crust unwrapped, and then putting the whole thing in a paper bag. My inner bread remains fresh and the crust remains crunchy & chewy. I can make a loaf last two or three days this way. I hope this helps. Bill Wilhelmi Technical Marketing Workstation Technology Division Hewlett-Packard Company ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Mar 1994 13:12:11 -0700 From: Dave Jerzycki Message-ID: <9403072012.AA09557@hpgrla.gr.hp.com> >From Renee Roberts............ > ----------------------------- >Date: Mon, 28 Feb 94 20:10:17 PST >From: Renee@cup.portal.com >Subject: Red Lobster Cheese Garlic Bread >Message-ID: <9402282010.1.28616@cup.portal.com> >I need the recipe for this. If you have it, please post it here! >Renee Roberts > ----------------------------- Response.............. Pulled this off the network a while back, can't remember who posted them, but I've made them a few times, they're great. I even added sliced ham to a batch once for the hell of it and they where pretty good. I used cold club soda instead of water, and I normally use about 2 cups of bisquick. Cheddar cheese....about 4-8 oz depending upon the cheese flavor you want. The are fairly easy to fix. Just experiment with the ingredients till you get the flavor you want. Dave Jerzycki Title: RED LOBSTER CHEESE BISCUITS Categories: Bread, Biscuits Servings: 60 1 ts Garlic powder 1 T Parsley flakes 1 ts Italian seasonings 5 lb Bisquick 44 oz ;Water, cold 1 lb Cheddar, sharp; grated 1/2 c Butter Preheat oven to 450 degrees. Mix bisquick, water and cheese. Drop by large spoonfuls onto greased baking sheet. Bake for 8-10 minutes. After baking, (while hot) brush on melted butter or margarine mixed with garlic powder, parsley flakes and Italian seasoning. (Amounts will vary by the size batch you make, but a little goes a long way.) Serve hot. The RL manager's recipe is for a large quantity, so you'll have to reduce the ingredient quantities by the size batch you desire. Note: For a smaller batch I usually use 2 C. Bisquick, 1/2 cup cold water, and 3/4 c. grated cheddar which will yield about 12 biscuits. You may also substitute soda water or gingerale for the water, if desired. ------------------------------ End of Bread Digest V5 #10 ****************************** Bread Digest Tue, 22 Mar 1994 Volume 5 : Issue 11 Today's Topics: "Old Fashioned" Bread Makers BREAD Digest V5 #9 Cranberry bread List for bread *machines* only? SANYO BREADMAKER Saving Leftovers Sourdough recipe book ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 15 Mar 94 04:45:16 -0500 From: pagulayan%harlow.dnet@sb.com (ABRAHAM C&IS APPLICATION DEV. LIMS TEAM) Subject: "Old Fashioned" Bread Makers Message-ID: <9403150945.AA02209@phinet.smithkline.com> Hello... Just to raise my hand up on the suggestion of Salli Schwartz that there is another one here who does bread making by hand. Your experience in bread making would be appreciated by the group "old fashioned" or not. However I did not realise this is only for those using machines though there are a lot who use them. I have had replies to my queries and offered suggestions. The recipes are not so different and I always use them as they are. Perhaps some recipes are easier to do with bread machines. Aside from recipes and questions, maybe the group should share some stories on our bread making experiences e.g. the first time one baked bread, success and failures, funny stories, frustration etc... I am sure we can learn from them too. Abraham pagulayan%harlow.dnet@sb.com The Pinnacles Essex, United Kingdom ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Mar 94 14:51:45 -0500 From: mikeg@endgame.gsfc.nasa.gov Subject: Re: BREAD Digest V5 #9 Message-ID: <199403141951.AA07937@endgame.gsfc.nasa.gov> >I too did not relize that this list is for bread machines only. Is it >possible to include a topic for those of us who believe in the "old >fashioned" way. I would love to share recipes and knowlege with others >but can find no other venue to do this. Does anyone else wish to >participate? Yes and No. The creative process is somewhat similar either via machine or via hand. Because basically a recipe that makes 1 loaf by hand can just be tossed into a bread maker (while one that makes 2 loaves, just needs to be halved). As long as the info is slighted toward the machine I think it would be fine. No one here has to know you don't have a machine. If your recipes center around 1 loaf recipes that make 1 to 1.5 lb loaves. (1lb being about 2-2.5 cups of flour, 1.5lb being 3-3.5 cups of flour.) And you need to enlighten us about the look of the dough, not the feel. (Since machines can't feel, but we can open the top and look at it. :-) And a few other slight changes that may need to be made to allow us (who own machines) follow along. Or hey, go out and get a machine. Then you can have fresh bread all the time, not just specialty breads some of the time. What do you think? Later, Mike mikeg@asylum.gsfc.nasa.gov ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Mar 1994 07:45:55 -0800 (PST) From: "Linda E. Tonkinson" Subject: Cranberry bread Message-ID: CRANBERRY BREAD (in Hitachi) 1 1/8 cup water 3 C bread flour 1 1/2 tsp. salt 3 Tbs sugar 1 1/2 Tbs butter l 1/2 Tbs dry milk l 1/2 tsp dry yeast 1/2 cup dried cranberries Place all ingredients except cranberries in bread machine. Use "bread mix" menu. Add cranberries during kneading, about 25 minutes after start. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Mar 1994 10:33:48 -0700 From: Lisa Stroyan Subject: List for bread *machines* only? Message-ID: <9403141733.AA02252@vger.sde.hp.com> Hey folks, let's clear up this question of whether this list is for bread machines only rather than for bread by hand. My opinion is, of course not! All recipes are welcome, we can often modify them for our preferred use (or make them on dough setting and bake in the oven if using a bread machine). The reason this discussion came up is that someone implied that using a bread machine is inferior to the "real" way and seemed to insult those of us that use them (Maybe it wasn't intended but that is how many of us took it). So someone else responded with something like "hey, this is a bread machine group!" Anyway. Welcome to all and let's share without worrying about whether one way is "better" than the other - there are lots of reasons to prefer either way and we can disagree here and it shouldn't affect the usefulness of this group. My 2 cents, Lisa Lisa Stroyan Fort Collins, CO lisa@fc.sde.hp.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Mar 94 14:54:46 -0500 From: mikeg@endgame.gsfc.nasa.gov Subject: Re: SANYO BREADMAKER Message-ID: <199403141954.AA07945@endgame.gsfc.nasa.gov> I have Donna German's Bread machine cookbook Vol. 1 & 3. I forget which, but she mentioned sanyo machines in one (or both) of them. Great books. But I definately like Vol.3 better than Vol.1 she has definately improved with age. Take care, Mike mikeg@asylum.gsfc.nasa.gov ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Mar 94 15:05:47 -0500 From: mikeg@endgame.gsfc.nasa.gov Subject: Re: Saving Leftovers Message-ID: <199403142005.AA07953@endgame.gsfc.nasa.gov> One of the bread books I read said to use a stalk of celery to keep the bread fresh. Never tried it though. Try putting a stalk of celery in your paper bag with your sourdough. Sounds good in theory. :-) Later, Mike mikeg@asylum.gsfc.nasa.gov ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Mar 1994 08:48:21 -0500 From: mrk@vax002.stockton.edu (Murray Kirch) Subject: Sourdough recipe book Message-ID: <9403171348.AA13246@vax002.stockton.edu> When I started using bread machines (over 5 years ago) I could find no published sourdough recipes for bread machines. I was successful in adapting traditional recipes for my machine. Now there are many books available which include some sour dough recipes. My favorite is German's The Bread Machine Cookbook III. Last week I discovered (and purchased) a new book by German & Wood, Worldwide Sourdoughs From Your Bread Machine (Nitty Gritty Cookbooks), which I am sure will become one of the most used books in my collection. This book contains useful backgound material on sourdoughs and bread machines followed by recipes grouped using three categories: 1) Authentic sourdoughs (full cycle, no commercial yeast) 2) Authentic sourdoughs (dough cycle, no commercial yeast) 3) Pushbutton sourdoughs (with commercial yeast) As the title indicates, there are recipes from all over the world. Here is a sample from category 1 (I have this running in my machine now). Cocoa Rye Bread (1.5 lb) sourdough culture 2 cups white bread flour 1 cup Knead for 5 minues in machine, allow to sit for 8 hours, add the following ingredients and start cycle using French or basic white setting. water 1/4 cup salt 1 tsp. sugar 1 tbs. vegetable oil 1 tbs. cocoa 1/4 cup caraway seeds 1 tbs. vital gluten 2 tsp. rye flour 1 1/2 cups white bread flour 2/3 cup water as needed ----------------------------------------- Murray Kirch Linwood, NJ mrk@vax002.stockton.edu ----------------------------------------- ------------------------------ End of Bread Digest V5 #11 ****************************** Bread Digest Tue, 29 Mar 1994 Volume 5 : Issue 12 Today's Topics: Bread machine desserts- why are my crusts so dark mistake in recipe? Which model bread machine? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 23 Mar 1994 11:27:20 PST From: Heather_Strenzwilk.Roch811sd@xerox.com Subject: Bread machine desserts- why are my crusts so dark Message-ID: <"23-Mar-94 14:27:20 EST".*.Heather_Strenzwilk.Roch811sd@Xerox.com> Hi all, For Christmas my sister-in-law purchased me two bread cookbooks. One is basic bread recipes (called Bread Machine Magic) and I have had much success with it. The other book deals with dessert type concoctions, featuring sweeter, denser doughs than normal bread dough. I've had much less success with these denser doughs. The results are usually heavy and very dark, even if I use the lightest crust setting. I had an R2D2 Welbilt and had all but burned out the motor from almost constant use. Machine number 2 is a Welbilt AB800 which is slightly smaller but much quieter and twice as fast as my old R2D2. I am having the same problem with machine 2 (with dark crusts on sweet/ dense breads.) Regular breads (wheat, white, etc.) are fine- just sweet breads such as raisin are dark. Any ideas? Should I use a different setting than the recipes suggest? Thanks, Heather ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Mar 1994 13:57:20 -0700 From: Jenny Farnham Subject: mistake in recipe? Message-ID: <199403222057.NAA05422@spot.Colorado.EDU> In Digest V5 #9, there is a recipe for Apple Cinnamon Bread which sounds wonderful. However, I noticed that there was no "yeast" listed in the ingriedients. Was this a mistake or is that recipe correct as is? Thanks, Jennifer Farnham Storagetek Boulder, Colorado ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Mar 1994 23:22:08 -0500 (EST) From: David Reeve Sward Subject: Which model bread machine? Message-ID: Hi all, another lurker here. I'd like to get a bread machine at some point in the near future and would like advice :) on which brand/model to get. Thanks, -- David Sward sward+@cmu.edu ------------------------------ End of Bread Digest V5 #12 ****************************** Bread Digest Mon, 4 Apr 1994 Volume 5 : Issue 13 Today's Topics: BREAD Digest V5 #12 BREAD Digest V5 #12, "What Bread Maker" Dark crust problem Which machine to get? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 3 Apr 94 15:45:00 -0500 From: tim.bandy@pcohio.com (Tim Bandy) Subject: BREAD Digest V5 #12 Message-ID: <24.26095.5.0CB2E45E@pcohio.com> -=> Quoting Bread@cykick.infores.com to Tim Bandy <=- Br> Hi all, another lurker here. I'd like to get a bread machine at some Br> point in the near future and would like advice :) on which brand/model Br> to get. Br> David Sward sward+@cmu.edu Hello, David. We have a factory refurbished R2D2 type Wellbilt from DAMART for which we paid $119. We use it regularly and have had it for a year. We are satisfied with it. ___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Mar 1994 16:49:35 -0800 (PST) From: "Tom L. Wallace" Subject: BREAD Digest V5 #12, "What Bread Maker" Message-ID: <9403291650.aa21070@jsbus.jsbus.com> I owned the DAK "r2d2" (Same as wellbuilt "round loaf"), Panasonic, Hitachi and Zorochi (sp?) and the Zo is my favorite. It is the only one that lets you set the time, which is nice if you use a lot of whole wheat, or in my case wheat sprouts. It also has a "window" so you can watch the process. It is solidly built, unlike the others that all broke. Speaking of breaking, there is a reason you so many bread makers sold reconditioned in DAMARK catalogs and similar publications: they do sometimes break. Make sure that the store you buy from has a generous return policy. I found Macys particularly good, but perhaps others are better in your town. Good luck! -Tom ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Tom Wallace - Director, Distribution Sales 108 Whispering Pines Dr. JSB Corporation Scotts Valley, CA 95066 408-438-8300 ext 209; (in U.S. & Canada) 800-359-3408 FAX 408-438-8360 tomwa@jsbus.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 31 Mar 1994 09:45:00 -0800 (PST) From: close@lunch.asd.sgi.com (Diane Barlow Close) Subject: Re: Dark crust problem Message-ID: <9403311745.AA04880@lunch.asd.sgi.com> Heather_Strenzwilk.Roch811sd@xerox.com asked > I am having the same problem with machine 2 (with dark crusts on sweet/ dense > breads.) Regular breads (wheat, white, etc.) are fine- just sweet breads such > as raisin are dark. > > Any ideas? Should I use a different setting than the recipes suggest? The dark crusts that come with sweet breads are due to the carmelizing of the sugar when cooking the bread, which produces much darker crusts than breads with less sugar. So, if you want lighter crusts, either cut down on the amount of sugar/sweeteners in the recipe or do a dough in the bread machine and bake the bread in the oven at a lower temperature (like 325-350). _Laurel's Bread Book_ (I think I got the title correct; I'm doing this from memory now) has an excellent chapter on the effect each ingredient has on the resulting bread. It's a bake-in-the-oven bread making book, but it's still a very useful read for bread machine bakers because the effects of the individual ingredients is still the same, and varying the amounts of the ingredients still has the same effects as baking in the oven -- you just can't control the rising time or baking temperature very well in a bread machine, that's all. -- Diane Barlow Close close@lunch.asd.sgi.com I'm at lunch today. :-) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Mar 94 15:46:35 EST From: fritz@ben.dev.upenn.edu (Katherine Fritz) Subject: Which machine to get? Message-ID: <9403292046.AA26960@ben.dev.upenn.edu> To David Sward -- Choosing a bread machine is basically a personal choice, and members of this list have (probably) every brand there is out there. I personally have a Welbilt ABM-100, commonly called an R2D2 because it looks like R2! I've had it for nearly 3 years and have been very happy with it. The DAK machines are almost identical in appearance to the ABM-100, and are also called R2D2s. Many members of this list have R2D2s, and have been satisfied with them. Not everyone agrees, however. Some folks have complained of R2D2s "walking" off counters or undercooking the center of the loaf. Mine has never walked anywhere; the undercooked centers can be solved by putting aluminum foil over the top glass dome. (The R2D2s all have a high, clear glass dome, which most other machines do not.) Some people don't like the fact that the R2D2s make round loaves, but this doesn't bother me in the least. I have heard good comments about the Zojishuri (sp) and Panasonic machines, but have no personal knowledge or experience with them. The Zoji is probably the most expensive machine out there, as it has a number of options that other machines don't, including a cycle for making cakes and one for making jam. One thing you should know is that all bread machines produce a loaf with a hole or a tear in the bottom. That's because bread machines have a dough paddle to mix and knead the dough. If you don't like the idea of a hole in the bottom of your bread, you'll have to use the manual cycle, take the finished, risen dough out of the machine, reshape it and put it in your own bread pan and bake in your own oven. Things to consider when purchasing a bread machine -- Size of machine. Bread machines come in 2 basic sizes, 1 pound loaf and 1-1/2 pound loaf. There are a few out there advertised as 2 pound loaf machines, but I couldn't tell you much about them. This has to do more with the volume the machine can handle than the actual weight of the loaf. (A 1-1/2 pound machine can handle at least 3-1/2 cups of flour.) This is a factor depending on the size of your family and/or how much bread you eat. If it's just you, a smaller machine might be better. Smaller machines also cost less. Pan loading. R2D2 units must be loaded with the pan in the machine, because they have a hole in the bottom that fits around a spindle, with a washer to prevent leaking. This doesn't bother me, but some people prefer a closed pan that can be filled outside the machine, and then placed in the machine. Your choice. Loaf shape. Again, R2D2 units make round loaves. If you don't like that idea, stick with a machine that makes square or rectangular loaves. Programmability. At minimum, I'd suggest a machine that has a cycle for white bread and a dough or manual cycle. (Dough cycles are useful if you want to make pizza crust, rolls, or other non-loaf yeast breads.) The ABM-100 has a white, French, sweet and dough cycle. Others have fewer or more cycles. Most machine cycles have set lengths of time for kneading, rising, baking. Some machines have a fully programmable cycle, where you can adjust the length of each cycle. A nice feature, but adds to the price. You'll have to decide how important that is to you. Another cycle to look for is a timer cycle, where you fill up the bread pan in advance and set the machine to go off at a later time. This is useful if you like the idea of waking up to the smell of fresh bread, or if you like the idea of coming home from work to a fresh loaf. Not all machines have this feature. Yeast dispensing. All machines tell you to add ingredients in a particular order, some with dry ingredients first, wet on top, and others vice versa. Some machines have a separate yeast dispenser, however, to drop the yeast in at a particular time. The only advantage I know of for this is if you frequently use the timer cycle, in preventing the yeast from reacting prematurely to moisture or sugar. Viewing window. Some machines have a window in the top so you can watch the dough being kneaded. The R2D2s, of course, have a glass dome top. This is useful for checking on whether the dough is too dry or too wet, so that you can make adjustments. Though bread machines can do all the work, it's always a good idea to check on the early stages of kneading, in order to correct such imbalances. Unlike humans, bread machines don't have a "feel" in order to add more flour or liquid to achieve a perfect round dough ball. For that reason, a viewing window can be very important. Darkness control. Not all breads are created equal; darkness control helps adjust for differences in composition in order to prevent a crust that is too dark or too light. That's all I can think of at the moment. Fire away if you have other questions. As for specific brand recommendations, well, I think that's highly individual. I love my Welbilt R2D2, but others love their Zojis, Sanyos, DAKs, Hitachis, etc. Consumer Reports did an article on bread machines last fall (December, I think, or you could check GO CONSUMER on CompuServe), and their top rating went to a machine nobody ever heard of, the Trillium Breadman. ??? I'm sure you'll get other opinions from other folks on this list, too. Good luck! --------------------- Katie Fritz -- Internet: fritz@ben.dev.upenn.edu CompuServe: 71257,3153--S11 Small Mammals Section Co-Leader,Pets/Animals Forum "From what I hear Earth is a podunk little place but they make great pastrami." -- Graetwist, "Roadways," coming soon from Cult Press ------------------------------ End of Bread Digest V5 #13 ****************************** Bread Digest Thu, 14 Apr 1994 Volume 5 : Issue 14 Today's Topics: Archive for low fat bread recipes BREAD Digest V5 #12 BREAD Digest V5 #13 (2 msgs) Freezing Dough gas stove vs. electric paddle scrapping bowl (DAK) problems Recipes: Whole Wheat Bagel Bread and Applesauce Bread SAUSAGE CRESCENTS Stuff in Whole Wheat Bread Two new products for use in bread machine What Bread Maker What bread maker? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 4 Apr 1994 13:10:22 PDT From: HS_.Roch811sd@xerox.com Subject: Archive for low fat bread recipes Message-ID: <" 4-Apr-94 16:10:22 EDT".*.Heather_Strenzwilk.Roch811sd@Xerox.com> I came across this on the eat-lf dl this morning. It has many bread recipes that have little or no fat in them plus many other recipes that are non bread related. My understanding is that MOST of the bread recipes in it are for bread machines. I sent for 2 neat ones - bagel bread and garlic-basil bread. Good luck, Heather Forwarding: >If you have FTP access, you can use anonymous FTP to ftp.halcyon.com >and the recipes are in /pub/recipes. >If you don't have FTP access, you can ask the archive server to >send you recipes via email. Send email to "archive-server@halcyon.com" >(without the quotes). In the body (NOT THE SUBJECT LINE) of your >email message, put the following, for example: >begin >send recipes/condiments/black-bean-salsa >send recipes/dips/fava-puree >end >You will receive a message acknowledging your request and promising to >send you the recipes. Later you will receive the two (in this case) >recipes as two separate mail messages. How much later depends on the >load on the server -- if there are a lot of requests at a given time >it may hold off on sending some stuff until its load is lighter. Be >patient. >Finally, here is the full list of recipes on the server as of about >a week ago. If you want to wade through the confusing nasty generic >help file to find out how to ask for an index of recipes via email, >you can always send a message containing the following to the server: >begin >send help >end ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 Apr 94 22:33:00 -0500 From: tim.bandy@pcohio.com (Tim Bandy) Subject: BREAD Digest V5 #12 Message-ID: <24.26508.5.0CB2E594@pcohio.com> -=> Quoting Bread@cykick.infores.com to Tim Bandy <=- Br> Hi all, another lurker here. I'd like to get a bread machine at some Br> point in the near future and would like advice :) on which brand/model Br> to get. Br> David Sward sward+@cmu.edu Hello, David. We have a factory refurbished R2D2 type Wellbilt from DAMART for which we paid $119. We use it regularly and have had it for a year. We are satisfied with it. ___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Apr 94 15:22:52 CDT From: kevin@spec.mda.uth.tmc.edu (Dr. Kevin McClain) Subject: Re: BREAD Digest V5 #13 Message-ID: <9404042022.AA03072@spec.mda.uth.tmc.edu> I have a Trillium Breadman, so I've heard of it. I got it based on the Consumer's Reports article. Its a good machine and Ive had zero problems .... I got it at Foleys. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 10 Apr 94 22:16:00 -0500 From: tim.bandy@pcohio.com (Tim Bandy) Subject: BREAD Digest V5 #13 Message-ID: <24.26924.5.0CB2E6DE@pcohio.com> Tom, Thanks for the feed back. I read complaints about both the Dak and the smaller R2D2 machines that were two years old. I wonder if your R2D2-type Welbilt experience dates back two years or more. I have recommended refurbished ones such as we own to several friends. They are happy with theirs also. BTW, DAMART is a good mail order company to order from. I am a techie who buys from DAMART- which is an electronics liquidator and mass buyer- whenever I can. Most of the electronics in my home and office came from DAMART. We have purchased heavily from DAMART almost from the time DAMART went into business about four years ago. DAMART sells quite a few refurbished items. Due to my experience with DAMART refurbished items, I do not hesitate to buy such items from DAMART. They have always looked brand new and have worked flawlessly. We buy only brand name refurbished items. The fact that they exist does not indicate anything bad about either the product or the company. Every company finds defective items in the quality control process. Having had mass production experience as a business consultant, I can tell you that with quality products when something goes wrong the malfunction is often the same one or two things. The way I see it a factory refurbished sony cordless phone is better than non-refurbished. Think of the mathematical improbability that a product which already has been found to have "what can go wrong, go wrong" having something else go wrong. Refurbished DAMART products come with warranties. ___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Apr 1994 14:59:55 -0500 (CDT) From: Betty Kuenzel Subject: Freezing Dough Message-ID: Hi, bread people! I'm new to the list, but have read the archives. Am curious about two things: 1. I have a baby Welbilt (the 1 lb. loaf with no bells and whistles) which I intend to use as long as it works; however, having read the discussions about various features, think I'd like to get a Zojirushi (next time) because of being able to customize the cycles (longer rising times, etc.). My machine doesn't have different cycles, only light, med. and dark crust. Anyway - where do you buy the Zoji. Dept. stores? Mail order? 2. I think I'd like to experiment with freezing dough - perhaps to make rolls, and then thaw and bake as needed (or cinnamon rolls, pizza dough, whatever...). At what point in the cycle do you remove the dough? I'm assuming you take it out before the final rise, shape it and freeze it? Thanks for the tips! Betty Kuenzel Columbia, Missouri ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Apr 1994 09:13:17 -0600 From: cshade@mgmserv1.mgm.saic.com Subject: gas stove vs. electric Message-ID: <9404041507.AA27764@mgm.saic.com> Hey folks. I'm new to the list. I live in Montgomery, Alabama. It's raining today. The wisteria, once blanketing the trees with a beautiful purple, now blankets the streets with fading flowers. Dogwoods are blooming strong here, and today it's raining. I like to bake bread. This would be a great bread baking day, if I was not at work. I'm trying to perfect grapefruit bread, which I'll share with you when I make it and I like it. I have an old, old, ancient gas stove. Question: Does bread bake differently in a gas stove, as opposed to an electric (i.e., does it come out more dry, thicker,...)? Christopher X. Shade cshade@mgm.saic.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Apr 1994 14:48:05 -0400 From: edler@jan.ultra.nyu.edu (Jan Edler) Subject: paddle scrapping bowl (DAK) Message-ID: <9404051848.AA17052@jan.ultra.nyu.edu> I have a problem with our DAK Turbo II machine: After we had the machine only about a year, the paddle began scrapping the bottom of the bowl, gouging out the teflon and aluminum. We stopped eating the bread, being unwilling to add aluminum to our diet. After fiddling around a bit, making sure the screws were tight, grinding a bit off the paddle, etc., it didn't get better. In fact, it got worse: serious metal fatigue failure (cracks) in the bottom of the bowl. I ordered a new bowl and paddle (which took months to arrive), thinking that would solve the problem, but it gouged into the aluminum the very first time we tried it again (last week). Has anyone else had this kind of problem? I'm having trouble getting DAK on the phone, but I'm not hopeful they will do anything. I probably won't buy another DAK machine. The first one lasted a couple years, and we were very happy with it, but it died of a deteriorated drive gear. Maybe I expect too much, but I think these things should last longer. We probably make 2+ loaves/week). Jan Edler edler@nyu.edu ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Apr 1994 12:28:28 -0400 (EDT) From: Bob_Sidebotham@transarc.com Subject: problems Message-ID: <4hc40g6SMV1aQ__Vhm@transarc.com> Hi. I just discovered this list. Is there a FAQ? We have a DAK Turbo. For about the first year, we were happy with the results, but now the bread never seems to come out right. It looks right in the pan (although sometimes may fall a little in the center) but tends to be extremely fragile in the upper part of the loaf, towards the center, with a very coarse, bubbly texture. This is so bad that we finally gave up using this machine. What we were never able to figure out was whether the machine was at fault, or whether the ingredients we were using were at fault. Sometimes by an apparent fluke we'd get a good loaf of bread one day, but the next day, the identical procedure would yield a terrible loaf. We tend to use whole grains only, but have exerimented with many different combinations of yeasts, flours, other ingredients, temperatures, etc. in order to try to solve this problem. I realize this description is vague (I haven't actually used the machine for 6 months). Any ideas? Thanks, Bob Sidebotham ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 Apr 1994 10:51:00 PDT From: HS.Roch811sd@xerox.com Subject: Recipes: Whole Wheat Bagel Bread and Applesauce Bread Message-ID: <" 6-Apr-94 13:51:00 EDT".*.Heather_Strenzwilk.Roch811sd@Xerox.com> Here are a few recipes from the low fat archives that I described in an earlier note. Has anyone tried using an egg substitute in place of whole eggs in their bread machien recipes? The package says they can be used in place of eggs in cooking or baking. Any success or failure stories would be appreciated. Thanks, Heather ------------------ Whole Wheat Bagel Bread from (1 1/2 pound loaf) Servings: 12 1 1/2 ts Active dry yeast 1 1/2 ts Gluten 3 c Whole wheat flour 2 ts Salt 3 tb Honey 1 c -warm water If you don't like making bagels but want the texture of bagels with the low-fat nutritional benefits; try this bread. It tastes like a bagel and is especially good sliced and toasted. There is one note for the Panasonic/National machines and that is to use 3 tsp yeast for 1 1/2 lb loaf. I believe that this is for the older Panasonics as I do remember Linda Rehberg saying that the newer models came out after their book was published and that the yeast amounts in her book were not for the newer Panasonics. Upon re-reading I found I missed one thing. I did add a few more tsps of water as the dough ball was not forming to my liking. Let me know if you make this and how you like it. 1437 *Total calories 54 *Total protein 7 *Total fat 1 *Total saturated fat 4269 *Total sodium 45 *Total fibre 4 *Calories from fat 313 *Total carbohydrates ------------------ Applesauce Bread (1 1/2 pound loaf) 1 pk Yeast 2 1/4 c Bread flour 3/4 c Wheat flour 1/2 t Salt 4 T White sugar 1/2 t Cinnamon 1 pn Nutmeg 2/3 c Warm applesauce 1/2 c Warm applejuice 1/2 c Grated fresh apple Put all ingredients into the pan, select white bread, and push start. From Loafing It by DAK ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 Apr 1994 08:05:57 -0700 (PDT) From: "Linda E. Tonkinson" Subject: SAUSAGE CRESCENTS Message-ID: MEAL IN A LOAF 1 1/2 pounds sweet Italian sausage, casing removed or 1 1/2 pouns lean g4round beef 2/3 cup choped green pepper 4 1/2 cups all-purpose flour 2 T sugar 2 t salt l t Italian seasoning 2 pkgs Fleischmann's Rapid Rise yeast 1 1/4 cups hot water 1/4 cup margarine, softened 2 eggs, at room temperature 1 1/2 cups shredded mozzarella cheese (6 oz) vegetable oil 1 T cold water grated parmesan cheese In large skillet, over medium-high heat, brown sausage or beef and cook pepper until lightly browned, stirring occasionally to break up meat. Remove from heat; drain well. Set aside. Meanwhile, set aside l cup all-purpose flour. In large bowl, mix remaining flour, sugar, salt, Italian seasoning and yeast. Stir Hot water and margarine into dry mixture. Mix in l egg and only enough reserved flour to make soft dough. On lightly floured surface, knead until smooth and elastic, about 4-6 minutes. Divide dough in half; roll half to 14 x 8 inch rectangle. Stir cheese into meat mixture; spoon half the mixture down center of dough length. Bring long edges of dough together over filling; seal seam and ends. Shape into crescent; place seam-side down on greased baking sheet. Repeat with remaining dought. Brush loaves with oil; cover loosely with plastic wrap. Refrigerate overnight or up to 24 hours. When ready to bake, remove from refrigerator. Uncover loave carefully; make 4 slashes on tope of each loaf. Let stand at room temperature 10 mintues. Beat remaining egg with cold water; brush on loaf. Bake 400 degrees for 25 minutes or until down. During last 2 minutes of baking, brush again with egg mixture; sprinkle with Parmesan cheese. Serve warm. Refrigerate leftovers; reheat to serve. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Apr 94 13:35 PDT From: sullivan@fa.disney.com Subject: Stuff in Whole Wheat Bread Message-ID: When you get whole wheat bread in the store, it's often filled with yummy, chunky "things" that let you know it's not just flour in there. I know about boiling wheat berries and putting them in bread but I'm not convinced those are the only things in there. Basically, I'm looking for something to add texture to the bread as plain old flour bread can get pretty boring (for me, anyway). I'd like to make a good, hearty, chunky, grainy bread. Is this making any sense? Thanks for whatever hints (other than raisins) you can provide. Michael Sullivan sullivan@fa.disney.com Walt Disney Feature Animation +1 818 544 2683 (voice) Glendale, CA +1 818 544 4579 (fax) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Apr 1994 19:32:03 -0700 (PDT) From: amyk@netcom.com (Amy Kurtzman) Subject: Two new products for use in bread machine Message-ID: <199404140232.TAA23644@netcom9.netcom.com> In the last few days I have come across two interesting new products which claim to enhance machine-baked bread. They are a bit pricey, so I resisted the impulse purchase. I'm wondering if anyone else has seen or tried these yet. Do they sound worth a try or just a waste of money? In Sears (of all places) I saw Red Star Bread Machine Yeast. It was $7 for a 7-ounce jar! Real sticker shock when I noticed the price since I buy a giant 2-*POUND* package of regular Red Star yeast at Costco for about half that price. So what was different about this jar? It included a couple of additional ingredients, a dough conditioner and an emulsifier, whose chemical names escape me at the moment. New product number two was spotted in the April 1994 (in a new, slicker and glossier 8.5 x 11-inch format to boot) Williams-Sonoma catalog. This product is called "Lora Brody's Bread Machine Boost." It is not clear exactly what is in it -- on the front of the package it says "This all natural blend of bakers' ingredients will dramatically improve the rise, texture, crumb, crust and flavor of every loaf of bread you make." On the front of the package it describes the product as a "bread baking enhancement formula and yeast activator." At the top of the bag it says "Goodbye to shrunken, sunken, shriveled loaves!" The product logo is a flying loaf of bread (similar to a flying toaster). Here is the catalog description: "This is the baker's secret! Add this all-natural mix along with yeast, just as commercial bakeries do, and the results will delight you. Your bread will rise considerably higher, with true bakery flavor, superb texture, fine crumb and crustier crust. The 10-oz. package is enough for about 20 loaves, either machine or handmade." It sells for $8.00. Lora Brody is the author of two bread-machine baking books "Bread Machine Baking" and "Desserts from your Bread Machine," coincidentally sold on the same page. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 05 Apr 94 09:49:45 -0400 From: mikeg@endgame.gsfc.nasa.gov Subject: Re: What Bread Maker Message-ID: <199404051349.AA03845@endgame.gsfc.nasa.gov> I have Regal and find it to be very nicely placed. It makes a good textured square loaf. And has been a very good beginnner bread maker for me. I agree with the other poster, that the Zorijshu (sp?) is the cream of the crop, but I wonder how intimidating it is to a beginner bread maker? My regal looks a lot like the Mr. Loaf machines, I think it is made by Trillium for regal (or at least they both share the same manufacturer). One thing I like, that is always over looked is the top. Mine comes off by taking out two screws, which is a bit of a pain, but still very easy. This makes it simple to clean. And with the first over risen loaf you have you will realize how nice it is to take off the lid and clean it in the sink. My in-laws have one of the original Hitachi units (not the plus) and have had problems with it making a consitant loaf. Of course I don't know whether it is the machine, or the operator... Also I would only buy a 1.5 lb machine. They are not much more and all the ones I have seen still make a 1 lb loaf. Plus there are a lot of "instant" mixes coming out. Where all you do is add the packet, yeast, and water and you get: sourdough, wheat, herb, etc... These packages are all being centered around the 1.5 lb machines. They do come with instructions for smaller bread makers, but then why hassle with that? I think you also need a timer option, and I don't think there is a machine out there that does not have one, but make sure. It is great to wake up to the smell of baking bread. good luck, Mike mikeg@asylum.gsfc.nasa.gov ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Apr 94 14:56:00 GMT From: Alan Dare Subject: What bread maker? Message-ID: <9404041456.AA02428@hal.larc.nasa.gov> FYI, Consumer Reports did a report on bread machines a few months back. If your thinking of buying one you may want to check it out. Alan Dare ------------------------------ End of Bread Digest V5 #14 ****************************** Bread Digest Mon, 18 Apr 1994 Volume 5 : Issue 15 Today's Topics: Adding stuff to whole wheat bread Bread additives... BREAD Digest V5 #14 (2 msgs) Bread ingredients & additives Egg Replacer egg replacer; and sprouting wheat berries new product "bread machine boost" No sugar sweet breads Squaw bread recipe Stuff in Whole Wheat Bread Two new products for use in bread machine ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 15 Apr 94 09:20:31 EDT From: Robert P. Sarao Subject: Message-ID: <9404151320.AA11223@us1rmc.bb.dec.com> Hi, My name is Bob Sarao and I am a commerical baker in Leominster MA. I have been reading this file for a while and never enetered anything but I think the time has come for me to do so. First of all let me go on record as saying that you don't need those fancy gizmos and gadgets to make good bread. All you "knead" is time, patience, a little experimentation and love. Granted you can throw all of your ingredients together the night before and have fresh bread in the morning. But honestly how many of you actually do that. Probably not many. Secondly, don't put dough boosters, conditioners or any other adulterants in your home baked bread. I certainly don't and I have have been in the bakery business for over 25 years. Sure they come out with new and improved ingredients that can help me use time in a more efficient way or slow down the proofing process when the bakery is 90-100 degrees (before we turn on the ovens) What you're trying to achieve is a well baked wholesome bread. When you use an R2D2 or CP3O machine, what your getting is in my opinion, a loaf of american bread (Wonder Bread comes to mind). Granted you may get different flavors but the texture is usually quite soft. Lastly, give old time baking a try. Experiment and have fun. Go for hearth baked (with out a loaf pan), right on a cookie sheet even make dinner or sandwich rolls.. Let's see a machine do that. Just my opions. Robert Sarao Tony's Bakery 294 6th Street Leominster, MA. 01453 ------- End of Forwarded Message ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Apr 1994 15:12:34 -0700 (PDT) From: estier@galaxy.csc.calpoly.edu (Ellen Stier) Subject: Adding stuff to whole wheat bread Message-ID: <9404152212.AA18352@galaxy.csc.calpoly.edu> Someone asked about adding things for texture in whole wheat bread. My favorite loaf is one where I add equal amounts of oatmeal (rolled oats), oat bran, and steel cut oats. I got the oat bran and steel cut oats in the "health food" aisle of the regular grocery store. Cornmeal also improves the "crumb" of the loaf and makes a texture more like what you would get in a heavier, store bought loaf. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Apr 94 11:28:06 -0400 From: mikeg@endgame.gsfc.nasa.gov Subject: Bread additives... Message-ID: <199404151528.AA01348@endgame.gsfc.nasa.gov> Someone posted this a few digests ago and I responded with the idea of storing your loaf with a a celery stick, but... I was wondering what ingredents (natural) could be put into my bread to prolong its shelf life. Not against mold, but against drying out and getting hard. (Impossible, right?) I figure there must be something in one of these fancy health food stores, but alas I am not a frequenter of health food stores... Thanks, Mike mikeg@endgame.gsfc.nasa.gov #include "Forgive me for I am a worm...It's better to burn out, than to fade away." ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Apr 94 23:19:00 -0500 From: tim.bandy@pcohio.com (Tim Bandy) Subject: BREAD Digest V5 #14 Message-ID: <24.27770.5.0CB2E8EA@pcohio.com> -=> Quoting Bread@cykick.infores.com to Tim Bandy <=- Br> Message-ID: <0097CF3C.74E28A20.47@cykick.infores.com> Br> Bread Digest Thu, 14 Apr 1994 Volume 5 : Issue 14 Br> I have a problem with our DAK Turbo II machine: Br> After we had the machine only about a year, the paddle began scrapping I have read posts complaining about DAK bread machines and other DAK products for at least three years. I do not buy from DAK, as I find the prices are not that good, the advertising is full of fluff and the products are not very good. I recommend a much better company called DAMART... ___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Apr 94 23:19:00 -0500 From: tim.bandy@pcohio.com (Tim Bandy) Subject: BREAD Digest V5 #14 Message-ID: <24.27771.5.0CB2E8EB@pcohio.com> -=> Quoting Bread@cykick.infores.com to Tim Bandy <=- Br> Bread Digest Thu, 14 Apr 1994 Volume 5 : Issue 14 Br> Has anyone tried using an egg substitute in place of whole eggs in Br> their bread machien recipes? The package says they can be used in place Br> of eggs in cooking or baking. Any success or failure stories would be Br> appreciated. Thanks, Heather Heather, We watch our oil and colesterol fat intake in our house, so we rely heavily on a very good book called "Butter Busters." The first 60 pages alone of this book is well worth the price of the book. In it the author offers and rates replacements of ingredients of recipes which are high in fat. The book is quite thick and it contains many replacement recipes. We learned from the book and trial and error how to replace eggs, butter and lard. Ener G Egg Replacer works very well in recipes. Butter Buds is great for a margerine replacement. Ener G works well for eggs (it is nearly zero fat). Butter Busters is not the best replacement for butter or margerine as a bread spread, but it is an excellent replacement for margerine and butter. Butter Buds just came out with a low fat margerine. We like it but some butter lovers hate it on bread. Fleshman's Ultra lite is better for spreading on bread. ___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Apr 94 08:53:00 edt From: "Eisenreich, Pete" Subject: Bread ingredients & additives Message-ID: <2DAE8D8F@spacenet> > From: sullivan@fa.disney.com > Subject: Stuff in Whole Wheat Bread > When you get whole wheat bread in the store, it's often filled > with yummy, chunky "things" that let you know it's not just flour > I'm looking for something to add texture to the bread as plain King Arthur Flour (Mail order as The Bakers Catalog or something) sells a 10-Grain Cerial that you add like cracked wheat (they send instructions). They also sell cracked wheat, Rye berries, etc.. 800/777-4434. They have a great (and informative catalog), but are somewhat expensive. Have you tried sunflower seed? I get these in the bulk-food section of the grocery quite cheap (raw, unsalted). > From: amyk@netcom.com (Amy Kurtzman) > Subject: Two new products for use in bread machine > ... Williams-Sonoma catalog. This product is called "Lora Brody's Bread > Machine Boost." It is not clear exactly what is in it -- on the > front of the package it says "This all natural blend of bakers' > ingredients will dramatically improve the rise, texture, crumb, crust... King Arthur Flour also sells this. The catalog says it's a mixture of Ascorbic Acid, Distatic Malt Powder and Vital Wheat Gluten. All available separately for much less. Gluten is available in many grocery stores and health food stores for ~$2.50/Lb. (Arrowhead Mills). Some bread flours already contain Malt and Ascorbic Acid. Check the label on Pillsbury or Gold Medal (don't remember which). K.A. sells both. I bought a pound of Malt powder. This is about a 100 year supply (and I don't notice any difference). Ascorbic Acid is Vitamin C. You can also get it at winemaker's/Beermaker's supply shops. It's also the major ingredient in "Fresh Fruit", that stuff you add to fruit when canning/freezing to keep it from turning brown. I haven't tried this since I don't recognize the other ingredients, but I'm getting ready to try an experiment. Fleischman's yeast also lists ascorbic acid as an ingredient. I've seen suggestions to add a squirt of lemon juice, but don't know how close this is. > In Sears (of all places) I saw Red Star Bread Machine Yeast. It was $7 > for a 7-ounce jar! Real sticker shock when I noticed the price since I I see Fleischman's yeast is now labeled "Bread Machine Yeast". Its around $5/4oz.. around here. The 2 Lb bag at the warehouse stores is a much better deal, but they never have it in stock when I want it. King Arthur (again) sells a variety of yeast, including "Instant Bread Machine Yeast" it's about $5/Lb. It work asnd I use less than regular yeast, but its to confusing for me to keep track of how much of which yeast, so I just use regular. I am trying K.A. "Special Inst. Yeast" for sweet and acid breads. No conclusions yet. They send a very informative sheet w/ the yeast explaining various strains. Disclaimer: I don't work for King Arthur or anything, but I think their catalog is great. Also the customer severice is top notch. The prices can be kinda high, but not as high as others (Williams-Sonoma). -Pete E. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Apr 94 20:35 EDT From: popcorn@cyberspace.org (Valerie Mates) Subject: Egg Replacer Message-ID: In Bread digest V5.14, someone asked about egg replacer. I haven't tried it in the breadmaker yet. I discovered the stuff quite recently, at a pot luck dinner when someone brought a broccoli and cornbread dish that was made with egg replacer instead of eggs. The dish was delicious, so I bought myself a box of egg replacer to experiment with. My first egg replacer endeavor was eggless brownies. The egg replacer box has instructions for how much egg replacer powder and how much water to use to replace an egg. So I calculated 2 eggs worth and added it to the brownie mix instead of the eggs. As I poured the brownie mix into the pan, the water started to separate out. I baked the brownies anyway and ended up with a bunch of brownie ingredients, hard as a rock, sitting in a pool of water. This was Ener-G egg replacer, so I called up the Ener-G company to ask what had gone wrong. They suggested whipping the egg replacer with the water before mixing it into the brownie recipe. They said (this sounds odd to me) that in wheat recipes egg replacer tends to behave strangely. (That could be quite relevant to bread making.) My guess at what happened is that all my brownie ingredients were oil-based (butter, chocolate, etc.), and oil and water don't mix, so the water separated out. I'm planning to try making egg replacer brownies again, one day. In the meantime, I have a pudding recipe that says to add an egg yolk for extra richness. Instead, I stirred in some egg replacer. It seemed to work OK: the pudding was a big hit! -Valerie Mates grex@cyberspace.org ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Apr 1994 14:39:36 -0500 (CDT) From: Betty Kuenzel Subject: egg replacer; and sprouting wheat berries Message-ID: Heather Strenzwilk asked about using egg substitutes in bread recipes. I've used EN-ER-GEE (can't recall how to spell it) Egg Replacer, which is a powdered, all natural egg substitute, you mix with water. It's especially handy for those small loaf recipes that call for half an egg. Anyway, I've had good results with it. Michael Sullivan mentioned boiling wheat berries to have "chunky things" in wheat bread. I just wanted to note that you can sprout wheat berries, too, which I think is a lot of fun and tastes great. You soak the wheat berries overnight (or several hours) in a glass jar, then cover the jar with cheesecloth (with a rubber band) and drain off the excess water. Tilt the jar at a 45 degree angle (so excess water drips out) and store in a warm, dry place. Gently rinse and drain once or twice a day. They sprout quickly 2 or 3 days. Use them when they've sprouted about 1/4 inch. Toss them into the machine with the other ingredients. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Apr 1994 15:15:40 -0700 (PDT) From: estier@galaxy.csc.calpoly.edu (Ellen Stier) Subject: new product "bread machine boost" Message-ID: <9404152215.AA18633@galaxy.csc.calpoly.edu> This sounds suspiciously like what a friend of mine buys from a Bosch dealer. Hers is called "dough enhancer" and is very inexpensive in bulk. She shared some with me last time I was there and it REALLY made a difference in the consistency of the loaf. I have yet to find it around here. The ingredients are similar to what some flours have added to them to be called "bread flour", but there's more to it than that. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Apr 94 14:31:42 PDT From: Renee@cup.portal.com Subject: No sugar sweet breads Message-ID: <9404151431.2.24264@cup.portal.com> I am looking for recipes for NO ADDED SUGAR sweetbreads to make in my breadmaker. Any ideas? Any and all recipes or FTP sites are welcome! Renee Roberts Renee@cup.portal.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Apr 94 15:10:37 -0700 From: brad@scripps.edu (Bradley R. Teegarden) Subject: Squaw bread recipe Message-ID: <9404142210.AA02224@boger2.scripps.edu> I am looking for a good squaw bread recipe for a Welbilt bread machine. brad@scripps.edu ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Apr 1994 09:44:52 -0400 From: edler@jan.ultra.nyu.edu (Jan Edler) Subject: Re: Stuff in Whole Wheat Bread Message-ID: <9404151344.AA16873@jan.ultra.nyu.edu> > When you get whole wheat bread in the store, it's often filled with > yummy, chunky "things" that let you know it's not just flour in there. My favorites are seeds, especially: unhulled flax, unhulled sesame, raw sunflower. Also, alfalfa, quinoa, millet, teff, ... (lots of choices). Don't forget rolled oats. You can also get flakes of various other grains: oats, wheat, barley, kamut, ... Good health food stores sell these things. Some things won't work without extra effort: pearled barley, wheat grains, etc.; these require pre-cooking, or they'll be tooth-breakers. Jan Edler ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Apr 94 17:32 PDT From: sullivan@fa.disney.com Subject: Re: Two new products for use in bread machine Message-ID: > flying toaster). Here is the catalog description: "This is the baker's > secret! Add this all-natural mix along with yeast, just as commercial > bakeries do, and the results will delight you. Your bread will rise > considerably higher, with true bakery flavor, superb texture, fine > crumb and crustier crust. The 10-oz. package is enough for about 20 > loaves, either machine or handmade." It sells for $8.00. Lora Brody is > the author of two bread-machine baking books "Bread Machine Baking" > and "Desserts from your Bread Machine," coincidentally sold on the > same page. Sounds like gluten to me. Michael Sullivan sullivan@fa.disney.com Walt Disney Feature Animation +1 818 544 2683 (voice) Glendale, CA +1 818 544 4579 (fax) ------------------------------ End of Bread Digest V5 #15 ****************************** Bread Digest Wed, 27 Apr 1994 Volume 5 : Issue 16 Today's Topics: Gluten has won me over/ Jell-O in bread? Pizza dough Recipes from the lf archives rosemary+oat bran recipe (request) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 18 Apr 1994 13:37:49 PDT From: HS.Roch811sd@xerox.com Subject: Gluten has won me over/ Jell-O in bread? Message-ID: <"18-Apr-94 16:37:49 EDT".*.Heather_Strenzwilk.Roch811sd@Xerox.com> >Gluten is available in many grocery stores and health food stores for >$2.50/Lb. (Arrowhead Mills) I bought some of this over the weekend and decided to try it in my never fail wheat roll recipe. Using the same recipe, but adding 2 teaspoons of gluten, my rolls were even better than normal. Better texture. I will definitely add the gluten to wheat bread dough from now on. On another list a few months ago there was a debate about Red Star vs. Fleischman's yeast and King Arthur vs. bread machine flour. Since RS and KA were highly recommended, I switched from other brands. Yuck! I have never had results as bad as with the 'preferred products.' I have switched back to my old standbys. Perhaps my climate/ bread machine (R2D2) just works better with the other brands. Interesting how people have varied success/ failure with the same products! Someone mentioned to me that they saw a bread machine recipe for a strawberry bread that contained dry Jell-O mix. I cannot imagine such a thing and of coure they don't recall where they saw it. Has anyone seen/ tasted anything like that? Thanks, Heather ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Apr 94 15:34:21 TZ From: Robert Reichel Subject: Pizza dough Message-ID: <9404182150.AA21147@netmail2.microsoft.com> When I was in high school, I worked in a pizzaria in New York, and I'm trying to duplicate the dough that we made there. I remember the technique for preparing the dough, but I can't seem to get the very light, fluffy, infinitely stretchable dough that we had there. I can stretch mine to 16" without any problem, but it's heavier, and stiffer than I remember. So are there special pizza flours? What kind of flour would the average pizzaria use, anyway? We made the dough in big batches in a big Hobart machine, but I don't think lack of kneading is the problem (I use a KitchenAid). Any suggestions would be appreciated. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Apr 1994 13:27:10 PDT From: HS.Roch811sd@xerox.com Subject: Recipes from the lf archives Message-ID: <"19-Apr-94 16:27:10 EDT".*.Heather_Strenzwilk.Roch811sd@Xerox.com> Here are some bread recipe that I found in the low fat archives. 2 are made by hand (rosemary and hiking bread) 2 are for breadmakers (maple syrup and honey peasant) and 1 is made in the microwave (whole wheat). I have made a very similar peasant bread from another Donna Germain book and it was well liked. Heather ------ begin of rosemary-bread -- ascii -- complete ------ >Date: Thu, 12 Aug 93 13:47:00 PDT >From: sally charette This is from Donna Dean's Low-Fat Baking column in today's _L.A. Times_. She's not reliably low-fat. One recipe a couple of weeks ago sported "*only* eight tablespoons of butter." Hmmm. And I quote: This rustic loaf of yeast bread is flavored with fresh rosemary. It would also be delicious made with other fresh herbs such as oregano, basil, thyme, or tarragon. Experiment to find your favorite flavor combinations. (She brushes it with olive oil and sprinkles rock salt on top for flavor and texture. It's up to you.) ROSEMARY BREAD 1 1/2 teaspoons yeast 1 cup warm water (105-115 degrees) 1 teaspoon sugar (perhaps honey could be substituted) 3 cups flour 1/2 teaspoon salt 1/4 cup chopped fresh rosemary 1 tablespoon cornmeal 1 clove garlic, minced 1/8 teaspoon cracked black pepper 1/2 teaspoon rock salt Sprinkle yeast over warm water in small bowl. Stir until dissolved. Stir in sugar. Stir in 1/2 cup of flour until smooth. Let stand until mixture begins to bubble. Combine remaining flour and salt. Stir in yeast mixture and rosemary. Turn out onto lightly floured surface. Knead until smooth and elastic, about 10 minutes. Cover and let rise in lightly oiled bowl until doubled in size, about 1 hour. Punch dough down. Roll to 9-inch circle on lightly floured surface. Place on lightly oiled baking sheet sprinkled with cornmeal. Brush bread with oil mixed with garlic (optional). Sprinkle over cracked pepper and crushed rock salt. Using 2 fingers, poke holes at even intevals over the top of the bread. Let stand about 15 minutes. Bake at 425 degrees, 15 to 20 minutes or until golden brown and loaf sounds hollow when tapped. Remove to wire rack to cool slightly before serving. Makes 8 servings. With the oil, that's 171 calories; 2,949 mg sodium (I'm definetely omitting *that*), 0 cholesterol; 1 gram fat; 35 grams carbohydrates; 5 grams protein; 0.22 grams fiber. ------ end of rosemary-bread -- ascii -- complete ------ ------ begin of hiking-bread -- ascii -- complete ------ >Date: Thu, 03 Mar 94 10:03:57 MST >From: seb1@bighorn.dr.att.com (Sharon Badian, AT&T - GBCS Labs, Denver) Hiking Bread - makes 14 servings, 0.5 gms fat/serv, 3% CFF 1 cup all purpose flour 1 cup rye flour 1 1/4 tsp baking powder 1 tsp baking soda 1/4 tsp salt 1 1/2 cups nonfat yogurt 2 Tbl firmly packed brown sugar 1/4 cup light molasses 1 1/2 cups old fashioned oats 1 cup raisins Lightly spray a 9x5" loaf pan with Pam or use a non-stick loaf pan. Combine flours, baking powder, baking soda and salt in a medium bowl. In a large bowl, beat yogurt, brown sugar and molasses until smooth. Add oats and mix well. Add flour and raisins to combine. The batter (more like dough) is very dry and it takes a little work to mix in all the flour. Put in loaf pan and let rest for 20 minutes. Bake for 45-55 minutes in a 350 degree oven until lightly browned and edges have begun to pull away from the sides of the pan. ------ end of hiking-bread -- ascii -- complete ------ ------ begin of honey-peasant-bread -- ascii -- complete ------ >Date: Wed, 26 May 93 03:16:26 EDT >From: KEVWIL@delphi.com ---------- Recipe via Meal-Master (tm) v7.04 Title: Honey Peasant Bread: DG #4 Categories: Breadmaker Servings: 1 Posted by Gaye Levy DTXT63A 1 1/2 c Water 1 1/2 t Honey 1/3 t Salt Vital Gluten see below ** 3 c Whole wheat flour 1 1/2 t Yeast From The Breadmachine Cookbook IV, Donna German. Medium Loaf. Use 1 1/2 TBL to 3 TBL Vital Gluten (optional). ------ end of honey-peasant-bread -- ascii -- complete ------ ------ begin of maple-bread -- ascii -- complete ------ >Date: Thu, 09 Sep 93 13:58:52 EDT >From: gosselin@tartan.com MAPLE SYRUP BREAD i have a hitachi . it needs 1/2 tsp more yeast than some other makers. btw, if you make a lot of bread you should consider buying a restaurant pack of yeast. my red-star yeast cost about $3 for 2 or 3 pounds. this is a heckuvalot cheaper than those little envelopes. 1 cup 3 Tbs water 2 Tbs maple syrup 2 Cups unbleached white flour (I use Robin Hood) 1 Cup whole wheat flour (I use Robin Hood) 1/2 Tbs salt 1 Tbs yeast Process in bread machine. ------ end of maple-bread -- ascii -- complete ------ ------ begin of microwave-ww-bread -- ascii -- complete ------ >Date: Sun, 27 Jun 93 07:51:41 CDT >From: "Jim Gregory" Here's an easy way you can make WW bread in less than an hour. I got the idea reading the directions for my new microwave oven (the directions described how to make bread rise faster; I thought why not bake it, too? :-) ): MICROWAVE WHOLE WHEAT BREAD 6 cups whole wheat bread flour 1 1/4-1 1/2 cups warm water 1 tablespoon blackstrap molasses 1 tablespoon honey 1/2 cup warm water 1/4 teaspoon honey 2 teaspoons yeast Mix the last three ingredients in a measuring cup, let sit for a couple minutes, then pour into the flour. Put the honey and molasses into the same cup, add 1 cup water, stir it to dissolve, then pour it into the flour. Mix the dough, adding the remaining 1/4-1/2 cup of water as necessary to get all the flour into the dough. When the dough is ready to start kneeding, put 3 cups of water in a large glass jar or bowl, and put in the microwave for 6-8 minutes on HIGH until it begins to boil. (The water, according to my microwave book, acts as a heat absorber and moderator. I never tried making bread without it, so it may or may not be necessary.) While the water is heating, kneed the dough. (I use an extra-large stainless steel mixing bowl to make bread, so I just kneed the dough in the same bowl I used to mix it. Makes clean up a snap.) Kneed for about 8 minutes, or until the water is boiling. **Very** lightly grease two 6-cup microwave bowls with vegetable oil. Cut the dough into two pieces, form these pieces into balls by turning the sides down and under, "twist" the bottom of the balls closed, and put the two balls into the two bowls, twist side down. Put the bowls of dough into your microwave along with the jar of boiled water and microwave on the low power setting (i.e., "1" or "10") for 20-25 minutes to let the dough rise. The dough will approximately double in size. Don't "punch it down" or kneed it a second time--just microwave on HIGH for 10 minutes to "bake" it. (I do this all at one time by programming my microwave to cook at "10" for 18 minutes, then "HIGH" for 10 minutes.) After "baking", remove the bread by simply turning the bowls upside down and shaking out the bread. You'll have two small round loaves when done. The final product: The crust of the bread will be softer than a traditionally-baked loaf, since the microwave doesn't dry it out and brown it like a traditional oven. Also, the surface of the loaf will be lighter (the whole wheat flour and molasses give the bread a nice light brown appearance). The inside of the bread of the loaf will be nice and moist, with a good crumb structure. (I'm munching on some right now that I just pulled out of the microwave :-) ). The bottom of the loaves tend to be a little bit soggy, but not bad at all. You may have to adjust cooking times to fit the size and power of your microwave. Mine is a 600 W, 0.8 cu. ft. Magic Chef. ------ end of microwave-ww-bread -- ascii -- complete ------ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Apr 1994 16:08:02 -0700 (PDT) From: estier@galaxy.csc.calpoly.edu (Ellen Stier) Subject: rosemary+oat bran recipe (request) Message-ID: <9404182308.AA10451@galaxy.csc.calpoly.edu> I've been experimenting at the request of a friend of mine with a bread that includes both rosemary and oat bran. All the recipes I can find are strictly white/bread flour variety. When I add the oat bran, I get the flavor I want, but the loaf is consistently smaller and more dense. I'll keep experimenting, but wondered if anyone out there already had a recipe that included both ingredients. Thanks, Ellen ------------------------------ End of Bread Digest V5 #16 ****************************** Bread Digest Mon, 2 May 1994 Volume 5 : Issue 17 Today's Topics: Bread Machines Recipe help ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 2 May 1994 10:04:48 -0800 From: "Jay Kravitz" Subject: Bread Machines Subject: Bread Machines Could you send me information on the best bread machines for the money? Thanks...Jay ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Apr 1994 14:09:10 -0400 (EDT) From: Miriam Meier Subject: Recipe help Message-ID: <940428140910.206ad@sals.edu> I tried the following recipe in my bread machine a few days ago and got a very dense loaf--not at all what I had expected. Does anyone have experience with this kind of bread? Perhaps some of you more experienced bread bakers would try it and make some suggestions for improving its texture. The taste wasn't bad. Thanks in advance. Small loaf (1 lb) Ingredients Lge loaf (1 1/2 lb) 1 1/4 tsp active dry yeast 2 tsp 2 c bread flour 3 c 2 Tbsp wheat germ 3 Tbsp 2 Tbsp powdered milk 3 Tbsp 1 Tbsp sugar 1 1/2 Tbsp 1 tsp salt 1 1/2 tsp 1/2 tsp nutmeg 3/4 tsp 1 Tbsp vegetable oil 1 1/2 Tbsp 3/4 c mashed banana 1 c plus 2 Tbsp 1/2 c sour cream or plain 3/4 c yogurt 1/4 c water 1/4 c plus 1 Tbsp 1/2 c raisins or chopped nuts 3/4 c Miriam in Saratoga Springs, N.Y. ------------------------------ End of Bread Digest V5 #17 ****************************** Bread Digest Tue, 10 May 1994 Volume 5 : Issue 18 Today's Topics: Bread Machines Bread machines. Bread machine troubleshooting Cookbook Request/Recipes crumb texture/holes Love me, love my bread machine! :-) Starter and Home Ground Flour with Goldrush troublesome banana bread Zojirushi ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 2 May 1994 16:39:34 -0700 (PDT) From: "Paul A. Sue" Subject: Bread Machines Message-ID: Hi, I'd like to buy a bread machine for my wife's birthday (she's been hinting for one) ... what is a good manufacturer/model ?? Thanks, ---------- Paul A. Sue, Systems Administrator Voice: (604) 279-7975/6377 CANADIAN AIRLINES INTERNATIONAL Fax: (604) 279-2905/6379 600 - 5600 Parkwood Way Richmond, BC V6V 2M2 CANADA Email: P.Sue@CdnAir.CA ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 4 May 94 16:09:12 -0500 From: weede@ncsa.uiuc.edu (Nick Weede) Subject: Bread machines. Message-ID: <9405042109.AA05616@newton.ncsa.uiuc.edu> My only experience with bread machines is with a Panosonic 1 lb. size machine. I have been very satisfied with the machine. It produced consistant quality with very good flavor. However, after the 103rd loaf the mixing motor quit. Fortunately the machine was still under warranty. I returned it for a full credit and purchased a Zojirushi 1 1/2 lb. machine. My choice of a replacement was largely based upon comments from people using this information service. So far I really like the Zo. (Only 5 loaves to date.) I have found the operating instructions difficult to understand particularly on the time delay cycles. Thanks for providing this valuable informational service. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 2 May 94 16:46:23 EDT From: fritz@ben.dev.upenn.edu (Katherine Fritz) Subject: Bread machine troubleshooting Message-ID: <9405022046.AA25098@ben.dev.upenn.edu> I came across this from Pillsbury and thought other folks might find it useful. In addition, Pillsbury offers to answer bread maching baking questions at 1-800-767-4466, weekdays from 8-6 p.m. Central Time. Bread Machine Troubleshooting Guide Problem Possible Cause Solution --------------------------------------------------------------------- 1. Top Inflated, * Too much yeast * Decrease yeast or sugar Mushroom-like * Too much sugar in recipe Appearance * Not enough salt * Try adding a little more * Substituted fast- salt acting yeast for * If substituting fast-acting active dry yeast yeast for active dry, * Yeast was not added decrease amount by 1/4 to according to manu- 1/2 teaspoon. facturer's directions 2. Top and Sides * Too much liquid * Try reducing liquids 1 Cave In * Used canned fruit tablespoon at a time. but did not drain * If using too much coarse well flour, try increasing * Liquid off balanced yeast slightly or reducing by addition of cheese coarse flours and increasing * Used coarser flours bread flour such as whole wheat or rye 3. Soggy Sides * Did not remove bread * If possible, remove bread from pan soon enough immediately when baking is finished. 4. Center of Loaf is * Used coarse flours * For coarse flours, try Raw or Not Cooked or rye adding an extra knead Through * Used moist ingredients cycle. To do this, after such as yogurt or the first knead, let dough applesauce rise, then restart machine at the beginning of a cycle as for a new loaf. * If too many moist ingred- ients are used, try reducing liquids 1 tablespoon at a time. 5. Gnarly, knotted * Not enough liquid * Increase liquid 1 table- Loaves * Too much flour. spoon at a time or reduce flour 1/8 cup at a time. 6. Didn't Rise or * Yeast was omitted. * Make sure yeast is fresh. Flat Loaves * Yeast was old. * Make sure to use room * Liquid used was temperature water. too hot or too cold * Taste the bread to see * Too much salt was if it is too salty, then used. reduce by 1/4 teaspoon at a time. 7. Lower Volume or * Used stone ground * Try substituting bread Shorter Loaves and whole wheat flour for part of the flours. stone ground or whole * Not enough liquid. wheat flour. * Not enough sugar or * Try adding more liquid, no sugar added. sugar or yeast. * Wrong type of flour * Check to make sure bread used. flour, not all-purpose * Wrong type of yeast flour, was used. used. * Check to make sure yeast * Not enough yeast used amount suggested was for the type of yeast you were using. 8. Collapsed While * May be caused from * Try reducing yeast by Baking baking at a high 1/4 teaspoon or reducing altitude water by 1/8 cup. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 05 May 1994 11:05:33 -0500 (EST) From: Ruth C Perry Subject: Cookbook Request/Recipes Message-ID: <9405051105.A23451@ccmailgw.im.battelle.org> Text item: Text_1 Hi, I am fairly new to this group, but have really enjoyed the conversations so far. My husband gave me a Panasonic SD-BT55P/N for my birthday two years ago. It makes one-pound loaf, and has a yeast dispenser so that I don't have to worry about loading the machine in the wrong order. I liked it so much that I gave one to my sister-in-law for Christmas. She now makes bread all the time too. I have never given a gift that has been so much appreciated and so well used! One of my hobbies is to collect cookbooks. After joining this group, base on the recommendations of some of the contributors of this group, I looked at those little books by Donna Rathmell German at the bookstore this past weekend, and bought "The Bread Machine Cookbook V". I tried the Blueberry Oatmeal bread right away. Wow, what a beautiful loaf. So again last night I tried the Garlic Dill Whole Wheat bread, and ended up with an "hockey puck". It just did not rise at all. However, there are a lot of recipes in this book I still want to try. If any of you have favorite cookbooks, maybe you can share them with us. I hate to buy a book and then find out that it just sits on my shelf... So far my favorite bread machine cookbooks are: 1. "Bread Machine Magic" by Linda Rehberg and Lois Conway. I have a small collection of bread machine cookbooks, but always end up making something from this book. It has all kinds of recipes for any occasions. The Banana Oatmeal bread gets the most repeated requests when I made it for friends as gifts. 2. "The Bread Machine Magic Book of Helpful Hints" also by Linda Rehberg and Lois Conway. There are only 30 recipes in this book, but it offers a lot of insights in making bread. My most favorite recipe is in this book: "Lois's Country Crunch Bread". I make this bread to go with a lot of dinners. It has a wonderful crunchy/chewy crust, and the inside is just the right tenderness. To quote the authors: "Now this is what bread should taste like!" Thank you for any recommendations you might have. ====================== Banana Oatmeal Bread ====================== 1-pound loaf 1.5-pound loaf ------------------------ ------------------------ 1/2 cup ROLLED OATS 1 cup 1 EGG 1 3 tablespoons SOUR CREAM 1/4 cup (for Welbilt/DAK, add (for Welbilt/DAK, add 1 tablespoon water) 2 tablespoons water) 1 cup (about 1 large) SLICED RIPE BANANA 2 cups (about 3 medium) 1 1/3 cups BREAD FLOUR 2 cups 2/3 cup WHOLE WHEAT FLOUR 1 cup 1/2 teaspoon SALT 1 teaspoon 2 teaspoons BUTTER 1 tablespoon 1 1/2 tablespoons HONEY 2 tablespoons 2 teaspoons NONFAT DRY MILK 1 tablespoon 1/2 teaspoon CINNAMON 1/2 teaspoon 1/4 teaspoon NUTMEG 1/4 teaspoon 2 teaspoons ACTIVE DRY YEAST 2 teaspoons (for all machines) (for Panasonic/National, use 4 teaspoons yeast) Crust: Light Menu selection: Bake (light) 1. Place all ingredients in bread pan, select Light Crust setting, and press Start. 2. After the baking cycle ends, remove bread from pan, place on cake rack, and allow to cool 1 hour before slicing. ============================= Lois's Country Crunch Bread ============================= 1-pound loaf 1.5-pound loaf ------------------------ ------------------------ 7/8 cup WATER 1 1/8 cup (for Welbilt/DAK, add (for Welbilt/DAK and 1 tablespoon more Zojirushi, add 1 water) tablespoon more water) 2 cups BREAD FLOUR 3 cups 1 teaspoon SALT 1 1/2 teaspoons 1 teaspoon BUTTER 1/2 tablespoon 1 teaspoon SUGAR 1 1/2 teaspoons 1 1/2 teaspoons ACTIVE DRY YEAST 2 teaspoons Crust: Medium Optional bake cycles: French Bread, Rapid Bake, Delayed Timer Note: In the Zojirushi, the authors had better results when they baked it on the Regular cycle rather than the French Bread cycle. 1. Place all ingredients in bread pan and press Start. 2. After the baking cycle ends, remove bread from pan, place on cake rack, and allow to cool 1 hour before slicing. In the book, the authors also included instructions for making the dough in the machine, and then shape and bake the dough in the oven. I have always let the machine do the whole job. It turns out just fine. Happy baking! ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 May 94 12:21:14 EDT From: kvm@med.unc.edu (Kathleen Veness-Meehan) Subject: crumb texture/holes Message-ID: <9405091621.AA17878@maiden.med.unc.edu> I've been trying to get a french/sour dough bread with big holes inside. I use a sour dough sponge and extra yeast, commercial (Gold Medal) bread flour or plain flour, +/- olive oil, +/-milk. Have tried everything. My bread rises fine but after the second rising, deflates if you look at it. I can't seem to find a way to let it rise and then get into the oven ( I bake on unglazed quarry tiles) still retaining big air bubbles. I knead in enough flour to make a firm dough at first, but after the first rising it is real soft. Help! ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 2 May 94 15:51:27 EDT From: fritz@ben.dev.upenn.edu (Katherine Fritz) Subject: Love me, love my bread machine! :-) Message-ID: <9405021951.AA22403@ben.dev.upenn.edu> I've been letting this sit so I could think it over a time or two, before responding -- > Date: Fri, 15 Apr 94 09:20:31 EDT > From: Robert P. Sarao [deletions] > First of all let me go on record as saying that you don't >need those fancy gizmos and gadgets to make good bread. All >you "knead" is time, patience, a little experimentation and >love. Granted you can throw all of your ingredients together >the night before and have fresh bread in the morning. But honestly > how many of you actually do that. Probably not many. The reason I use a bread machine is because I DON'T have the time and patience to do it by hand. I would never try to convince anyone my bread is better than handmade, but it's pretty darn good, and better than storebought -- it's fresher and tastier, has better texture, and has no preservatives. And, yes, I DO use my machine to have fresh bread ready in the morning. [deletions] > What you're trying to achieve is a well baked wholesome bread. When >you > use an R2D2 or CP3O machine, what your getting is in my >opinion, a loaf of american bread (Wonder Bread comes to mind). >Granted you may get different flavors but the texture is usually >quite soft. > > Lastly, give old time baking a try. Experiment and have fun. Go for > hearth baked (with out a loaf pan), right on a cookie sheet even make > dinner or sandwich rolls.. Let's see a machine do that. Sorry, but I disagree. I HATE Wonder Bread-type bread texture, and my bread machine does NOT produce bread with that texture. Don't be a bread snob! :-) Those of us who use and enjoy bread machines are not trying to convince anyone to stop baking bread the old-fashioned way -- why should we give up our machines on someone else's say-so? Nobody ever said a bread machine would make rolls *in the machine.* That's what the dough/manual cycle is for. You just take the dough out and reshape it for rolls, pizza dough or whatever. Lastly, this is not a flame, so please don't take it that way: Didn't anybody ever tell you that this list was originally started for bread-machine users? Yes, it's true! So, go ahead and tell us all about what great bread you make, tips for making it, recipes, etc., but DON'T tell me to give up my machine or that I'm a lesser being because I use one! ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 May 1994 16:27:12 -0700 From: cetfers@cco.caltech.edu (Caltech Env. Task Force) Subject: Starter and Home Ground Flour with Goldrush Message-ID: <199405092327.QAA03242@piccolo.cco.caltech.edu> (Also Posted to Newsgroup rec.food.sourdough) Hi folks, I've been cooking with home ground hard wheat for a while and I have observed that commercial yeast (in this case red star active dry) would go haywire in the home ground flour. I mean forget using the french setting on the bread machine, as the loaves would come out tasting like beer. Reducing the yeast by 50% on all recipes and using a short rise cycle does the job of creating loaves that won't smell like a brewery. This lead me to trying an interesting idea: lets use some wild yeast with the home ground flour. I used some gold rush starter, and for starters, I first worked with Bob's red Mill unbleached bread flour (Hard red Spring wheat endosperm) just to gain enough experience with sourdoughs. My first loaf was a veritable brick. Great door stopper. The next loaf rose a little more, but still pretty flat. And I followed the instructions quite closely. Finally, I decided it was time to try out the big experiment: lets use some home ground wheat. I made a sponge using 1-1/2 cup starter (The starter was made using unbleached flour) and 1-1/3 cup freshly home ground hard winter wheat. After proofing overnight in the oven, something fantastic happened. The goldrush yeast went absolutely haywire in the home ground flour. The sponge smelled so bad like pure alcohol I threw it out. I started over with new starter (1-1/2 cup starter, 1-1/3 cup home ground flour) and this time I skipped the proofing altogether. I just dumped the rest of the ingredients into the breadmachine and pressed start for the french cycle. And 3-1/2 hours later, I got a nice 3/4 of the way risen, flat top loaf of bread. This was a wonderful loaf of bread with plenty of holes. Conclusion: Wild yeast likes wild flour! Looks like domestic yeast for bread making was created to accommodate the modern over-refined flours. Based on this experience, looks like I wont be using commercial yeast anymore. Has anyone had similar experiences? California Institute of Technology CETF - Caltech Environmental Task Force Send E-mail to cetfers@cco.caltech.edu "An earth is a terrible thing to waste" ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 09 May 94 11:08:27 PDT From: Iva Maclennan Subject: troublesome banana bread Message-ID: <9405091808.AA10163@surf.rand.org> Last time, Miriam in Saratoga Springs, N.Y., posted the following troublesome banana bread recipe. She said: > I tried the following recipe in my bread machine a few days ago and > got a very dense loaf--not at all what I had expected. Does anyone > have experience with this kind of bread? Perhaps some of you more > experienced bread bakers would try it and make some suggestions for > improving its texture. The taste wasn't bad. Thanks in advance. Here's her recipe: Small loaf (1 lb) Ingredients Lge loaf (1 1/2 lb) 1 1/4 tsp active dry yeast 2 tsp 2 c bread flour 3 c 2 Tbsp wheat germ 3 Tbsp 2 Tbsp powdered milk 3 Tbsp 1 Tbsp sugar 1 1/2 Tbsp 1 tsp salt 1 1/2 tsp 1/2 tsp nutmeg 3/4 tsp 1 Tbsp vegetable oil 1 1/2 Tbsp 3/4 c mashed banana 1 c plus 2 Tbsp 1/2 c sour cream or plain 3/4 c yogurt 1/4 c water 1/4 c plus 1 Tbsp 1/2 c raisins or chopped nuts 3/4 c This recipe has TOO MUCH LIQUID! I tried the 1 lb. loaf, and it mixed up in the machine much more like a batter than a bread-- I had to add an extra 3/4 cup of flour before it formed a ball. With the extra flour it baked up nicely. The bread was sort of moist and heavy, very banana-y, not very sweet. Really pretty good. Next time, however, I think I would cut back the banana for the small loaf to 1/2 cup, use 2-1/4 to 2-1/2 cups flour, and perhaps increase the sugar to 2 tablespoons. ----------------------------- o Iva S. Maclennan + | \ / /\ RAND + "Furious activity is | \/ / \ Santa Monica, California + no substitute for iva_maclennan@rand.org + understanding." ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 May 1994 13:43:39 -0700 (PDT) From: Marie Spears Subject: Zojirushi Message-ID: Hi, gang. I'm new to this group - just joined today. My husband bought me a Zojirushi bread machine for my birthday in April and we love 100% whole wheat bread - my problem is the bread comes out very dense, very short and doesn't seem to be kneaded properly. I have always made bread "by hand" in the past and thought having a machine do all the work would be terrific. I believe this machine hates me. I made three loaves over the week end and the birds wouldn't even eat them. Any help you can give me will be more than appreciated. ------------------------------------------------------------- Instruction enlarges the natural powers of the mind. ------------------------------------------------------------- Marie Spears University of Washington Libraries Assistant to the Director spears@u.washington.edu ------------------------------ End of Bread Digest V5 #18 ****************************** Bread Digest Mon, 16 May 1994 Volume 5 : Issue 19 Today's Topics: Any machines have a sourdough cycle? BREAD Digest V5 #18 QUESTION- delayed bake opt Quick Bread Setting ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 10 May 1994 11:33:32 -0700 (PDT) From: obrien@netcom.com (No parking EXCEPT FOR BOB) Subject: Any machines have a sourdough cycle? Message-ID: <199405101833.LAA02452@netcom.com> I still have an old DAK "R2D2" that works well. Of course, I've probably only averaged two loaves a month in the six years or so I've owned it. But it's not able to give me the cycle I'd really like. I'd like to make sourdough in the machine in one sitting. I have no time for all the hand work of not using a machine. I'd like a cycle just like the 'french' setting I have, _except_ that I want to be able to greatly lengthen the rise time. I'd like to let some doughs rise in the machine for up to 24 hours, then go right into the bake cycle. Does anyone know of such a machine? By the way, I've had several good experiences with the old machine and using yeast. As I understand it, the yeast will kill off the sourdough culture, but at least the yeast rises fast enough for the machine cycle. The latest recipe book from DAK has one recipe for sourdough, and I simply double the amount of starter called for and reduce the flour and water by 'guesstimate' About 7 out of 8 of these come out just fine. But, at least here in the SFBay area, they get moldy if not consumed within a week. DAK suggests a starter that involves milk, but I stick with my GoldRush, or the GoldRush that's been fed mostly rye. Bob O`Bob -- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 May 1994 20:16:40 -0700 (PDT) From: "Robin Rosenbaum" Subject: Re: BREAD Digest V5 #18 Message-ID: <9405140316.AA24040@pdxgp1> Paul A. Sue (P.Sue@CdnAir.CA) wrote: > I'd like to buy a bread machine for my wife's birthday (she's been > hinting for one) ... what is a good manufacturer/model ?? My husband bought me this one for Christmas/Housewarming; it makes good loaves and is easy to clean. It hasn't a lot of features but does have the virtue of being $20 cheaper than anything else sold around here: MK Home Bakery Mister Loaf, Model HB-210.215 MK Seiko Co., Ltd. 1825 Amenomiya, Kohshoku-Shi Nagano-Ken 387, Japan I'm just as happy about the small number of features (three bake modes, one dough mode, a timer, no yeast dispenser) because the most useful feature in my opinion is ease of cleaning :-) Ruth C Perry wrote: > If any of you have favorite cookbooks, maybe you can share them with us. I bought my first bread cookbook (other than the user's guide that came with) last weekend. Made 3 loaves from it so far and they all turned out great. The Bread Machine Bakery Book_, by Richard W. Langer (1991: Little, Brown, & Co, Boston/Toronto/London) Here's a selection of recipes: garlic herb bread, tomato bread, double chocolate bread, various multigrain breads, pumpkin bread, mock brioche... and a bunch of more "ordinary" breads. There's a volume 2 availible that I'll be picking up as opportunity presents! Banana Bread Recipe Question: I made the following recipe from the bread machine user's guide. Actually this is modified; the recipe verbatim from the guide didn't work at all. It made a nice, moist, slightly heavy but pretty well risen loaf--well, the texture was good for tearing off chunks and eating :-9 The problem: the banana flavor was all but subliminal. This with twice as much banana as the recipe *originally* had called for... Is it possible to make something more banana-y? (1lb loaf) 3 1/2 oz water 2 1/3 c bread flour 1 T sugar 1 t salt 1 T butter (I use stick margarine) 1/2 T nonfat dry milk 2/3 c mashed banana 1 1/2 t active dry yeast -- Robin Hilp, robinr@ichips.intel.com ------------------------------ Date: 10 May 1994 13:00:53 -0500 From: "Krissy Recktenwald" Subject: QUESTION- delayed bake opt Message-ID: <199405101709.NAA29768@mbunix.mitre.org> Subject: Time:1:00 PM OFFICE MEMO QUESTION: delayed bake option... Date:5/10/94 I returned a bread machine because every loaf I attempted on the delayed bake option (up to 13 hours) did not rise. I had tried each recipe on normal bake and the loaves rose perfectly, so I suspect that the yeast got damp while it was sitting in the bread machine, even though I had layered liquids, solids, yeast as directed. Has anyone had success with delayed bake (if so what brand machine), or do I have to buy a machine with a yeast dispenser? thanks, krissy ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 May 1994 16:27:47 -0500 (CDT) From: FJT@INS.INFONET.NET Subject: Quick Bread Setting Message-ID: <940515162747.3633c@INS.INFONET.NET> My Kenmore Bread machine has a quick bread setting for non-yeast breads. It makes a wonderful corn bread, but the banana bread and chocolate chip breads turn out doughy with very thick crusts. Does any one know how to fix these problems or have a good banana bread or other sweet breads without yeast that would work on my quick bread cycle? Lorna Truck fjt@ins.infonet.net Des Moines, Iowa ------------------------------ End of Bread Digest V5 #19 ****************************** Bread Digest Mon, 23 May 1994 Volume 5 : Issue 20 Today's Topics: Banana Bread Recipe Question Banana Flavour BREAD Digest V5 #19 FWD: Re: BREAD Digest V5 #19 Inexpensive bread bakers QUESTION- delayed bake opt Recipe: Challah Bread Recipe: Sour Cream n Chive Potato Bread Recipes: Mustard-Dill Bread and Black Pepper-Onion Bread ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 16 May 94 14:25:03 PDT From: Robert Rounthwaite Subject: Re: Banana Bread Recipe Question Message-ID: <9405162036.AA05156@netmail2.microsoft.com> The amount of banana you are adding to your recipe seems about right, although I sometimes vary the amount I use by quite a bit - if you don't mash the bananas as much, you can use more as you will end up with chunks of banana scattered thru your bread...yumm. As far as the lack of good banana flavor, I would suggest using *really* ripe bananas -- riper than you would usually want to eat out of hand. I generally make banana bread whenever we pick up too many bananas from the store and can't eat em all before they get overripe. btw - you can save extra overripe nanners, peeled, in the freezer (suitably packaged) Robert ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 May 94 05:17:21 -0400 From: pagulayan%harlow.dnet@sb.com (ABRAHAM C&IS APPLICATION DEV. LIMS TEAM) Subject: Banana Flavour Message-ID: <9405180917.AA07051@phinet.smithkline.com> Hello... Robin wrote about having a more banana flavour for bread. I suggest that the bananas should be really ripe. The banana skin would be black and the fruit soft. By this time, the aroma is fully developed. The banana may not look so good but the difference in the flavour is very distinct. Abraham pagulayan%harlow.dnet@sb.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 May 94 16:48 PDT From: mary_white@sunshine.net (Mary White) Subject: Re: BREAD Digest V5 #19 Message-ID: >Date: 10 May 1994 13:00:53 -0500 >From: "Krissy Recktenwald" >Subject: QUESTION- delayed bake opt >Message-ID: <199405101709.NAA29768@mbunix.mitre.org> > > Subject: Time:1:00 PM > OFFICE MEMO QUESTION: delayed bake option... Date:5/10/94 >I returned a bread machine because every loaf I attempted on the delayed bake >option (up to 13 hours) did not rise. I had tried each recipe on normal bake >and the loaves rose perfectly, so I suspect that the yeast got damp while it >was sitting in the bread machine, even though I had layered liquids, solids, >yeast as directed. Has anyone had success with delayed bake (if so what >brand machine), or do I have to buy a machine with a yeast dispenser? >thanks, krissy > I have a Hitachi and make delayed bread all the time with no problem. It doesn't have a yeast dispenser. Mine has a screen in the lid so some air can get in. If no air could enter, the yeast would probably get damp alright, but I haven't really seen any other machines but mine so I don't know if this is standard! Somebody said something about cleaning. What cleaning? You just leave it for a while and all the dough residue dries up, then you can easily shake it out or, if it's tenacious, scrape it out with your fingers. Although I guess if you made a sweet bread with gucky stuff in it you might actually have to wash it. But for normal bread it's not necessary. {{ Mary }} {{ Mary White }} ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 May 1994 12:21:39 EDT From: Jim Carey Subject: FWD: Re: BREAD Digest V5 #19 Message-ID: <0097E907.C11794A0.50@cykick.infores.com> [This was snt to me by mistake. Jim] From: toma@romulus.cray.com (Thomas Arneberg {x66642 CF/DEV}) > Date: 10 May 1994 13:00:53 -0500 > From: "Krissy Recktenwald" > Subject: QUESTION- delayed bake opt > > I returned a bread machine because every loaf I attempted on the delayed > bake option (up to 13 hours) did not rise. I had tried each recipe on > normal bake and the loaves rose perfectly, so I suspect that the yeast > got damp while it was sitting in the bread machine, even though I had > layered liquids, solids, yeast as directed. > Has anyone had success with delayed bake (if so what brand machine), or > do I have to buy a machine with a yeast dispenser? > thanks, krissy Of the 252 loaves I've made with my Zojirushi machine in the last 15 months, I'd say 80% of them were on time-delay (usually overnight). I don't think I've ever had a failure of any kind. I do make sure that the flour completely covers all the liquid, before sprinkling the yeast over the top. - Tom A. -------------------------------------------+----------------------------- ;-) I'd rather be ____ Thomas Arneberg, PE | Internet: toma@cray.com :-) singing in a |____| MPP IC Design Group | going to PromiseKeepers '94 :-) Barbershop _| _| Cray Research, Inc. | Just another roadkill on :-) Quartet! (_) (_) Chippewa Falls, Wis.| the Information Superhighway -------------------------------------------+----------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 May 1994 22:27:59 EDT From: Jim Carey Subject: Inexpensive bread bakers Message-ID: <0097ED4A.4976E300.3@cykick.infores.com> Any suggestions for an inexpensive ( < $180 ) bread baker. I'm happy with my DAK Turbo 4, but my mother-in-law is looking for a lower-cost one. Pointers to dealers would also be nice. Thanks. Jim ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 May 94 21:08:37 -0400 From: Hugh Secker-Walker Subject: Re: QUESTION- delayed bake opt Message-ID: <9405170108.AA09010@hodain.ci.net> Hi Krissy, I returned a bread machine because every loaf I attempted on the delayed bake option (up to 13 hours) did not rise. I had tried each recipe on normal bake and the loaves rose perfectly, so I suspect that the yeast got damp while it was sitting in the bread machine, even though I had layered liquids, solids, yeast as directed. Has anyone had success with delayed bake (if so what brand machine), or do I have to buy a machine with a yeast dispenser? I recently received a WestBend bread machine. I love it! I've used the delayed setting (up to 13 hours too) several times with no trouble at all, though only about 10 hours max. My routine is to put the (cold) water in, followed by salt and sugar which I mix around to dissolve. Then flour, which I push into the corners of the bucket to prevent water from welling up. And then I sprinkle yeast over the top. (I've avoided putting the salt or sugar and yeast together on the flour, thinking that it might be bad for the yeast.) For delayed bake I've stuck to that most simple recipe; I prefer to be on hand for anything more exotic. It helps to be sure how damp your "dry" flour is so you get the flour:water ratio correct. The WestBend has several nice features. One, which may be factor (assuming your returned model was not a WestBend), is that the first thing it does once it starts its cycle is to warm everything slightly for 30 mins, before it even mixes. It makes for more consistent results since everything is at the right temp when kneading begins. -Hugh ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 May 1994 11:00:36 PDT From: HS.Roch811sd@xerox.com Subject: Recipe: Challah Bread Message-ID: <"20-May-94 14:00:36 EDT".*.Heather_Strenzwilk.Roch811sd@Xerox.com> I made this the other night and got rave reviews on the finished product, which looks as good as it tasted. I was a bit scared when I saw a picture of the finished braided bread, but if I can do it, anyone can. The recipe is from Fleischmann's bread machine cookbook. Enjoy. --Heather-- Challah 1 pound Ingredients 1 1/2 pound 1/2 cup water 3/4 cup 1 large egg 1 2 Tab. margarine, cut up 3 Tab. 1 tsp. salt 1 1/4 tsp. 2 cups bread flour 3 cups 4 tsp. sugar 2 Tab. 1 1/2 tsp. bread machine yeast 2 tsp. 1 yolk of large egg 1 1 Tab. water 1 Tab. Add 1/2 cup (3/4) cup water, egg, margarine, salt, sugar, flour and yeast to bread machine pan in the order suggested by manufacturer. Select dough/ manual cycle. When cycle is complete, remove dough from machine to a lightly floured surface. If necessary, knead in enough flour to make dough easy to handle. (For 1 1/2 pound recipe, divide dough in half to make 2 loaves.) For each loaf, divide dough into 2 pieces, one about 2/3 of the dough and the other about 1/3 of the dough. Divide larger piece into 3 equal pieces; roll into 12 inch ropes. Place ropes on greased baking sheet. Braid by bringing left rope under center rope; lay it down. Bring right rope under new center rope; lay it down. Repeat to end. Pinch ends to seal. Divide remaining pieces into 3 equal pieces. Roll into 10 inch ropes; braid. Place small braid on top of large braid. Pinch ends firmly to seal and to secure to large braid. Cover; let rise in warm, draft free place until almost doubled in size, 15 to 20 minutes. Lightly beat egg yolk and 1 tablespoon water; brush over braids. Bake at 375 degrees F for 25 to 30 minutes or until done, covering with foil after 15 minutes to prevent excess browning. (For even browning when baking 2 loaves, switch positions of sheets halfway through baking. Remove from sheet (s); cool on wire rack. Cycle: Dough/ manual cycle ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 May 1994 09:05:14 PDT From: HS.Roch811sd@xerox.com Subject: Recipe: Sour Cream n Chive Potato Bread Message-ID: <"19-May-94 12:05:14 EDT".*.Heather_Strenzwilk.Roch811sd@Xerox.com> This recipe comes from a Fleischmann's breadmaker cookbook. I have tried 3 recipes so far and each was successful. I have a DAK/Welbuilt machine. For this recipe I used non fat sour cream, no name brand snipped chives and leftover real mashed potatoes with no problem. Enjoy --Heather-- Sour Cream n Chive Potato Bread 1 pound Ingredients 1 1/2 pound Potato mixture: 1/2 cup water 3/4 cup 1/3 cup chopped peeled potatoes 1/2 cup 1/4 cup dairy sour cream/ low fat yogurt 1/3 cup Dough: 1 Tab. butter or margarine 1 Tab. 3/4 tsp. salt 1 tsp. 2 1/4 cups bread flour 3 1/2 cups 1 Tab. Spice Islands snipped chives 4 tsp. 2 tsp. sugar 1 Tab. 1 1/4 tsp. bread machine yeast 1 1/2 tsp. Potato mixture: In a small saucepan combine water and potato. Bring to boiling; reduce heat. Cook, covered, 8 to 9 minutes or until potato is very tender. Do not drain; cool. Mash potato in the water. Measure potato mixture. Add cour cream and enough milk to make 1 cup (1 1/3 cups for 1 1/2 loaf.) Dough: Add potato mixture and dough ingredients to bread machine pan in the order suggested by manufacturer, treating potato mixture as a liquid. Recommended cycle: Basic/ white bread cycle; medium/ normal color setting To save time: Use instant potato flakes instead of fresh potato. Use 1/4 cup for 1 pound loaf (1/3 cup for 1 1/2 pound loaf). Place flakes in a 2 cup measure and add 1/4 cup (1/3 cup) sour cream and enough water to equal 1 cup (1 1/3 cup.) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 May 1994 09:38:18 PDT From: HS.Roch811sd@xerox.com Subject: Recipes: Mustard-Dill Bread and Black Pepper-Onion Bread Message-ID: <"19-May-94 12:38:18 EDT".*.Heather_Strenzwilk.Roch811sd@Xerox.com> Some more from the Fleischmann's bread machine cookbook. I have not tried either of these yet but I plan on making the Black Pepper-Onion for a cookout this weekend. Enjoy --Heather-- Mustard-Dill Bread 1 pound Ingredients 1 1/2 pound 2/3 cup water 1 cup 2 tsp. Dijon-style mustard 1 Tab. 1 Tab. butter or margarine 1 Tab. 3/4 tsp. salt 1 tsp. 1 1/2 cups bread flour 2 1/4 cups 1/2 cup whole wheat flour 3/4 cup 2 Tab. nonfat dry milk powder 3 Tab. 2 tsp. packed brown sugar 1 Tab. 3/4 tsp. Dry dill weed 1 tsp. 1 1/2 tsp. bread machine yeast 2 tsp. Add ingredients to bread machine pan in the order suggested by manufacturer, adding mustard with water. Recommended cycle: Basic/ white bread cycle; medium/ normal color setting. Timed-bake feature can be used. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Black Pepper-Onion Bread 1 pound Ingredients 1 1/2 pound 2/3 cup water 1 cup 1 Tab. butter or margarine 1 Tab. 3/4 tsp. salt 1 tsp. 2 cups bread flour 3 cups 2 Tab. nonfat dry milk powder 3 Tab. 2 tsp. sugar 1 Tab. 1 tsp. dry minced onions 1 1/2 tsp. 1/2 tsp. Med. grind Java Black Pepper* 3/4 tsp. 1/8 tsp. Garlic powder 1/4 tsp. 1 1/2 tsp. bread machine yeast 2 tsp. Add ingredients to bread machine pan in the order suggested by manufacturer. * If using a finer grind of pepper, reduce the amount to 1/4 tsp. for either loaf size. Recommended cycle: Basic/ white bread cycle; medium/ normal color setting. Timed-bake feature can be used. ------------------------------ End of Bread Digest V5 #20 ****************************** Bread Digest Tue, 31 May 1994 Volume 5 : Issue 21 Today's Topics: Any machines have a sourdough cycle? My yummy calzone experiment, or tonight's breadmachine dinner Recipe: Lemonade Bread Recipe: Whole Wheat Oatmeal Bread Rye or Whole Wheat Bread ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 25 May 1994 14:46:13 -0400 (EDT) From: Mary Beth Lohse Subject: Any machines have a sourdough cycle? Message-ID: <199405251846.OAA07227@racketball.cis.ohio-state.edu> In a previous posting, obrien@netcom.com writes: > I still have an old DAK "R2D2" that works well. Of course, > I've probably only averaged two loaves a month in the six years > or so I've owned it. But it's not able to give me the cycle > I'd really like. > > I'd like to make sourdough in the machine in one sitting. I have > no time for all the hand work of not using a machine. I'd like a > cycle just like the 'french' setting I have, _except_ that I want > to be able to greatly lengthen the rise time. I'd like to let > some doughs rise in the machine for up to 24 hours, then go right > into the bake cycle. > > Does anyone know of such a machine? > > By the way, I've had several good experiences with the old machine > and using yeast. As I understand it, the yeast will kill off the > sourdough culture, but at least the yeast rises fast enough for > the machine cycle. The latest recipe book from DAK has one recipe > for sourdough, and I simply double the amount of starter called for > and reduce the flour and water by 'guesstimate' > About 7 out of 8 of these come out just fine. But, at least here > in the SFBay area, they get moldy if not consumed within a week. > DAK suggests a starter that involves milk, but I stick with my > GoldRush, or the GoldRush that's been fed mostly rye. > > > Bob O`Bob > -- > > I've never heard of a machine that has a sourdough cycle. I make sourdough bread in my DAK all the time, using added yeast. The commercial yeast guarantees that the bread will rise; the sourdough mostly adds flavor and maybe a little to the rise. I don't know what you mean by "the yeast will kill off the sourdough culture", since the yeast is added to the other bread ingredients, not to the culture itself. This is my favorite sourdough bread reciped for a DAK: ******************************************************* Mary Beth's Sourdough Whole Wheat Bread Take 1 cup of starter and add 1 cup of flour and 1 cup of warm water (110 degrees). Mix well, cover with plastic and let proof in a warm draft-free area for 6 - 12 hours. Remove 1 cup of this culture for the recipe below and store the rest in the refriferator for next time. Put ingredients in machine in the order shown. yeast 1 1/2 tsp bread flour 2 cups whole wheat flour 2 cups salt 1 tsp sugar 2 tsp canola oil 2 tbsp milk (110 degrees) 2/3 cup starter 1 cup I have used both the regular white bread cycle and the sweet cycle with success. ******************************************************* I have found that the sourdough bread recipes in Donna German's books work well. (See "The Bread Machine Cookbook" and "The Bread Machine Cookbook III"). The medium size recipes make a nice size loaf. The large size tends to rise over the pan. -- Mary Beth ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 May 1994 22:12:25 -0700 From: Patti Beadles Subject: My yummy calzone experiment, or tonight's breadmachine dinner Message-ID: <9405310512.AA04774@pdxgp1> This is why I love my bread machine. Note that I have a tendency not to measure things, so use your imagination for the filling. Crust: 1 1/4 C warm beer 1 t salt 2 T sugar 1 T olive oil 3 c bread flour 2 t yeast Filling: 4 roma tomatoes, chopped 3 cloves garlic, minced fresh basil, chopped 1 chicken breast, cooked and cubed fresh parmesan cheese, shredded feta cheese, crumbled Choose your favorite method for making dough. While you're waiting, combine the tomatoes, garlic, and basil, and set aside. Divide the dough into two balls, and roll one into a circle appx. 12" in diameter. Layer half of the circle with parmesan cheese, chicken, tomato mixture, and a liberal dose of crumbled feta. Fold crust over and seal the edges. Repeat with other half of dough. Bake at 350 for ~15-20 minutes. When done, brush the crusts with melted butter, and enjoy. This makes two good-sized calzones. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 May 1994 00:55:27 -0700 (PDT) From: hazel@netcom.com (Boston-Baden) Subject: Recipe: Lemonade Bread Message-ID: <199405240755.AAA20096@netcom.com> Recipe: Lemonade Bread (Bread machine) "Sweet, but not cloying, and slightly tart, this is good beach food or porch food. If you slice and wrap the bread in your beach towel before you leave home, there will be no paper or plastic wrapper to add to the trash on the beach. Just shake out the crumbs before you dry off. Small Loaf (1 lb.) Ingredients Large Loaf (1.5 lb) 1.5 tsp active dry yeast 2.5 tsp 1.25 cups bread flour 1.75 cups + 2 TB 1 cup whole wheat flour 1.5 cups .75 tsp salt 1.25 tsp 1 TB sugar 1.5 TB 1 TB vegetable oil 1.5 TB 1/3 cup frozen lemonade concentrate, 1/4 cup thawed .5 cup + 2 TB water 1 cup Add all ingredients in the order suggested by your bread machine manual and process on the basic bread cycle according to the manufacturer's directions. [The Best Bread Machine Cookbook Ever, by Madge Rosenberg, pg. 53; 1992, Harper Collins Publishers Inc., New York] -- hazel-chaz@netcom.com - Home of Margarita Jell-O, an alcoholic use for lime jello. Email me with "request margarita" as subject or message for recipe. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 May 1994 10:37:03 PDT From: HS.Roch811sd@xerox.com Subject: Recipe: Whole Wheat Oatmeal Bread Message-ID: <"27-May-94 13:37:03 EDT".*.Heather_Strenzwilk.Roch811sd@Xerox.com> This recipe is from Donna Germain s Bread Machine Cookbook. I made this last night in my old R2D2 Welbuilt and it handled the dough pretty well. I used egg substitute and a teaspoonful or so of gluten but otherwise followed the recipe and measured accurately. The top was a bit sunken but the crust was nice and brown and thick for the large size loaf. I used the white bread setting and set the dial for the lightest crust. Enjoy --Heather-- Whole Wheat Oatmeal Bread Small Medium Large Water 2/3 cup 1 cup 1 1/3 cups margarine/butter 2 1/2 tbs. 1/4 cup 5 tbs. eggs 1/2 1 1 1/2 sugar 1 1/3 tbs. 2 tbs. 2 2/3 tbs. salt 1 1/4 tsp. 2 tsp. 2 1/2 tsp. bread flour 1 cup 1 1/2 cups 2 cups whole wheat flour 1/2 cup 3/4 cup 1 cup oats 1/3 cup 1/2 cup 2/3 cup wheat germ 2 1/2 tbs. 1/4 cup 5 tbs. nonfat dry milk 2 1/2 tbs. 1/4 cup 5 tbs. yeast 1 tsp. 1 1/2 tsp. 2 1/2 tsp. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 May 94 14:54:57 CDT From: cvxhab@Arco.COM (Bick Harry A (713)860-7056) Subject: Rye or Whole Wheat Bread Message-ID: <9405261954.AA24604@Arco.COM> I seem to have a consistent problem with making rye or whole wheat bread with my bread machine. It comes out too dense. I have tried adding more yeast and adding gluten flour with no success. Any suggestions? ------------------------------ End of Bread Digest V5 #21 ****************************** Bread Digest Tue, 7 Jun 1994 Volume 5 : Issue 22 Today's Topics: Making whole wheat bread rise well in a bread machine ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 2 Jun 1994 10:44:45 -0700 From: cetfers@cco.caltech.edu (Caltech Environmental Task Force) Subject: Making whole wheat bread rise well in a bread machine Message-ID: <199406021744.KAA02434@piccolo.cco.caltech.edu> cvxhab@Arco.COM (Bick Harry A posted the following: ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: cvxhab@Arco.COM (Bick Harry A (713)860-7056) Subject: Rye or Whole Wheat Bread Message-ID: <9405261954.AA24604@Arco.COM> I seem to have a consistent problem with making rye or whole wheat bread with my bread machine. It comes out too dense. I have tried adding more yeast and adding gluten flour with no success. Any suggestions? ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- The main reasons I found for lack of rise in my bread are, in order of importance: 1) Ingredients are too cold: warm up the water in the microwave (or by whatever other means) first. Once I did that, the bread started rising quite well. 2) Pre-knead the dough for 15 minutes. This makes a huge difference. Just set the machine on the cycle you want and press start. After 15 minutes, press stop and then restart the cycle from the beginning. If you want to make the bread on the timer, then just put all the ingredients into the breadpan EXCEPT for 1 cup of flour and the yeast. Let the machine knead the stuff in the breadpan for 15 minutes and then press stop, and add the last cup of flour, add the yeast on top, and set the timer. 3) Not enough liquids: there, one has to be careful. Not enough liquid will prevent the bread from rising well, but too much liquid will make it rise well, but then it will collapse. This is especially true with Rye bread. Too much liquid will make it so that the insides of the bread will spill out when you removed the bread at the end of the cycle. 4) You use gluten, so this might not matter. But just in case, make sure your wheat flour is made from hard wheat. You should not have to use gluten. For the rye bread, gluten should also not be necessary, but if you really like fluffy bread, then add it anyways. Hope this helps. California Institute of Technology CETF - Caltech Environmental Task Force Send E-mail to cetfers@cco.caltech.edu "An earth is a terrible thing to waste" ------------------------------ End of Bread Digest V5 #22 ****************************** Bread Digest Mon, 13 Jun 1994 Volume 5 : Issue 23 Today's Topics: bread machines, tips Sour Cream - Poppy Seed bread SUBMISSION: Turkish Bread ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 07 Jun 1994 15:27:19 -0400 (EDT) From: Cheryl Sousa Dwyer Subject: bread machines, tips Message-ID: <771017239.452744.CLS@MATH.AMS.ORG> Topics: Bread Machines, Hints and Tips Topic: Some of my experiences with bread machines I recently owned an MK SEIKO, MR LOAF bread machine and after repeated use for 1 1/2 years the motor burned out. Although it made an 'ok' loaf, I didn't want to purchase the same machine again for the afore mentioned reasons. DAMARK a mail order company has been mentioned as a place to buy bread machines, new or reconditioned. This is probably ok, but they don't generally offer the latest release in bread makers. Fortunately, I live an an area that offers a great deal of variety in shopping stores so LECHMERE is where I purchased my new TOASTMASTER 1 1/2 lb bread maker. If you have a LECHMERE in your area I would definitely recommend checking them out. They must have had over a dozen different models to choose from and the sales staff seems informed enough to give unbiased opinions. To my knowledge, there really hasn't been a good price/quality comparison done on machines lately and the sales clerk confirmed this as well. She did say that since the beginning of the year there have been over a dozen new bread makers on the market and they really didn't even have the room to display them all. She said the 'TOASTMASTER' and 'REGAL' bread makers are now at the head of the class surpassing 'PANASONIC'. There was another brand that rated the highest, but since it wasn't in my price range I didn't really pay much attention. Another great thing was the cost, the 'TOASTMASTER' sells for $199.00, but there having a sale this week so I purchased it for $149.00. So far I've been very pleased, it offers 4 different cycles for bread making that I think will help solve some of the inconsistency in the rising and texture that I experienced with the 'mr loaf' machine. The cycles are 'QUICK BREAD' done in 2:40 hrs/min, SPECIALTY BREADS that takes somewhere around 3:30 hrs/min and 100% WHOLE WHEAT that takes around 4:00 hours, and DOUGH only. I think the 100% whole wheat is probably what makes this a better bread machine because heavy dough would imply a better motor. It has a delay timer, and a light, medium, and dark selection for crust. TIPS My 'TOASTMASTER' doesn't have a yeast dispenser, but I found that it really isn't necessary. Most recipes call for adding the yeast last, however if you put the yeast in FIRST then add all the dry ingredients, then the liquid it works very nicely and the yeast will not be exposed to the surrounding elements until it starts to mix. It was also mentioned in recipe book that came with the machine, that garlic and cinnamon were unfriendly to yeast and acts like a meat tenderize would to meat. It is suggested to use no more than the recipe calls for and add it in the second cycle after the dough as already been mixed. Well I am about out of things to write about today, hope I haven't bored everyone to much. Until next message happy bread making...... ------------------------- THANKS. Cheryl Lynn Sousa Dwyer, Ext. 4021 Programming and Analysis ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Jun 94 13:31:00 edt From: "Eisenreich, Pete" Subject: Sour Cream - Poppy Seed bread Message-ID: <2DFA098A@spacenet> I got this out Fleishmann's recent breadmachine cookbook ($2.95). It turned out quite well. Very nice texture. (I used lite sour cream.) .5 C Sour Cream .5 C Water 1 Lg Egg 2 T Butter/Marg. 1 ts Salt 3 C Bread Flour 4 ts Sugar 1.5 ts Poppy Seeds 2 ts yeast Pete.Eisenreich@jhuapl.edu ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 09 Jun 94 19:36:58 -1600 From: berge@atsibm.murdoch.edu.au Subject: SUBMISSION: Turkish Bread Message-ID: <9406101136.AA07469@atsibm.murdoch.edu.au> A restaurant in Sydney Rd, Melbourne, called Alasya, served a Turkish flat bread that was baked in a brick oven. It was best eaten VERY fresh; by the time leftovers were a day old, they were already going hard. I have cooked Valentina Harris's recipe for Foccaccia bread, and it is similar, but the Turkish bread was more golden in colour and had large air gaps in the bread. If anyone has a recipe for this, I would really appreciate it, as I now live on the west coast of Australia, a little too far away to ask the chef! Thanks in advance, Rae. Please send to berge@atsibm.murdoch.edu.au ------------------------------ End of Bread Digest V5 #23 ****************************** Bread Digest Tue, 21 Jun 1994 Volume 5 : Issue 24 Today's Topics: Garlic Herb Bread ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 15 Jun 1994 08:52:37 -0400 (EDT) From: "Eileen Driscoll" Subject: Garlic Herb Bread Message-ID: <31959.efd2@cornell.edu> I made the following dough in my bread machine, rolled into 8 circles and cooked it on the gas grill. It should be just as good cooked as a loaf of bread. A wood fire would probably give a wonderful taste. Garlic Herb Bread 1 tsp yeast 1 tsp sugar 2 1/3 cup flour 2 TBSP cornmeal 1 tsp salt Heat 2TBSP olive oil 3 cloves of garlic crushed 1/2 tsp Herbes de Provence 1/2 tsp black pepper until the garlic is clear and it smells good Add to the bread mix 3/4 cup water Use the dough cycle and roll out into 8 rounds. You can cook it on the grill (watch carefully) or in the oven. I have a question. My Panasonic bread machine is starting to make electrical noises and smell funny. I bought it through Chef's catalog and they will exchange or refund it. Should I get another Panasonic? If not, what other mail order sources offer reasonable prices? Here in centrally isolated upstate New York, we don't have many choices when we go shoppping. Thanks. Eileen --------------------------------------------------------------------- Eileen Driscoll efd2@cornell.edu Director of Computing 607-255-3228 (office) ILR/Cornell 607-277-7593 (home) 181 Ives 607-255-7774 (fax) Ithaca, NY 14850 ------------------------------ End of Bread Digest V5 #24 ******************************