Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1993 Bread Digest Mon, 18 Jan 1993 Volume 4 : Issue 1 Today's Topics: Administrivia DAK bread bakers ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1993 17:17:43 EST From: Jim Carey Subject: Administrivia Message-ID: <00966CDC.ED6C48A0.22951@cykick.infores.com> Welcome to the revived bread-baker mailing list. I've taken over the list from Jeff. Jim Carey jcarey@cykick.infores.com or jim.carey@infores.com Information Resources, Inc. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1993 17:19:44 EST From: Jim Carey Subject: DAK bread bakers Message-ID: <00966CDD.35BDC5C0.22954@cykick.infores.com> I'm a fairly new member of the list. Just before its vactaion, somebody commented that many of you do not like the DAK bread bakers. I'd be interested to hear why, because I'm quite happy with ours. Jim Carey jcarey@cykick.infores.com or jim.carey@infores.com Information Resources, Inc. ------------------------------ End of Bread Digest V4 #1 ****************************** Bread Digest Tue, 19 Jan 1993 Volume 4 : Issue 2 Today's Topics: BREAD Digest V4 #1 (2 msgs) DAK bread bakers Hitachi Home Bakery Plus Yeast on the top or bottom? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 18 Jan 1993 21:10:45 -0500 (EST) From: Brenner@drew.drew.edu, Gabriel Stephen Subject: Re: BREAD Digest V4 #1 Message-ID: <01GTOFCN5RIA000BJS@drew.drew.edu> I have a DAK breadmaker.L and have been very unhappy with it for two reasons: 1) It keeps breaking and 2) The service from DAK is very slow and very expensive. I'd certainly never buy from them again. Hint Sunbeam makes the unit and if you sendt to them directly their service is better. Jeff ------------------------------ Date: 18 Jan 1993 21:19:48 -0500 (EST) From: Brenner@drew.drew.edu, Gabriel Stephen Subject: Re: BREAD Digest V4 #1 Message-ID: <01GTOFNVJDKY000BJS@drew.drew.edu> OOPS it's Welbuilt, not Sunbeam. Welbuilt repair service is loc at c/o Garden State Repairs, 4200 Westside Ave, North Bergen N.J. 07047 Phone # 201-866-1970. Welbuilt Phone # is 516-365-5040. Jeff ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1993 07:12:41 -0800 (PST) From: Tony White Subject: DAK bread bakers Message-ID: Like Jim, I'm very happy with our DAK bread baker and bought one for our daughter for Christmas. Her experience has, likewise, been good. It's human nature to express dissatisfaction with a product when it doesn't meet expectations, but not to express an opinion when it does: we simply assume "that's the way it ought to be". Every product is going to have some lemons. That doesn't mean it's basially bad (just as my experience doesn't mean it's basically good!). Of more concern to me is the comment that DAK customer service is hard to reach and not very helpful. This corresponds to my experience also. I've written the service off as the price I pay for low prices on DAK's products. They *do* stand behind their guarantees, though. My final opinion regarding DAK is that they sell pretty good products at reasonably low prices - but don't expect any more service than you'd get from a garage sale. Tony White ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Jan 93 8:49:01 CST From: margaret@msw104i.b24b.ingr.com (Margaret Wiginton) Subject: Hitachi Home Bakery Plus Message-ID: <199301191449.AA00874@msw104i.b24b.ingr.com> Hi all, Glad to see this mailing list back in business! I received a Hitachi Home Bakery Plus for Christmas. If anyone else out there has this model and would like to chat about recipes and such, please drop me a line. Also, I got a copy of "The Bread Machine Cookbook III" (can't remember the author's name) this weekend, and will try to post some recipes as I try them out. For now, I've got a few of questions ... - Does the weather affect bread rising in a bread machine? I remember my mom saying that you shouldn't bake on days when the humidity is high, because the bread won't rise properly. However, I've had pretty consistent results with my Hitachi, despite a lot of rainy days. - How long do you let a loaf cool before you wrap it up in plastic? I've read that wrapping it too soon makes it soggy. - Should the flour be sifted before you put it into the machine? Advance thanks for your advice, ________________________ Margaret margaret@msw104i.b24b.ingr.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Jan 93 16:14:25 PST From: bmartin@iit.com (Bryan Martin) Subject: Yeast on the top or bottom? Message-ID: <9301190014.AA06871@iitbarr.iit.com> First, congratulations to Jim for reviving the list! I own a Zourjurushi (I hate having to attempt spelling that name in public), and I was wondering if anyone knew what difference in the design of different manufacturer's machines determined whether yeast was added first or last (top or bottom). In the Zourj... machine, yeast is always added last and sits on top of the dry ingredients. But in my friend's R2D2 Bread Machine, yeast is added first and sits underneath all of the dry ingredients. Personally, I have found I get lighter and fluffier loaves from allowing the yeast to sit in the liquid ingredients for several minutes before starting the machine (I have even allowed the yeast to sit in the liquids for several hours using the timer mode, with very good results). It seems to me that, to a point, the larger the yeast population you have revived from their freeze-dried state at rising time, the better off you are.... Comments? BTW, if you wish to prove me wrong, I'll gladly accept several large loaves of banana-nut or zuchinni bread in the mail as experimental data :) ------------------------------ End of Bread Digest V4 #2 ****************************** Bread Digest Tue, 19 Jan 1993 Volume 4 : Issue 3 Today's Topics: BREAD Digest V4 #2 (2 msgs) DAK Machine etc. DAK Motors Zojirubushi Bread makers ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 19 Jan 93 09:53:39 PST From: Renee@cup.portal.com Subject: Re: BREAD Digest V4 #2 Message-ID: <9301190953.1.12491@cup.portal.com> In Digest Vol 4 #2, >From: margaret@msw104i.b24b.ingr.com (Margaret Wiginton) >Subject: Hitachi Home Bakery Plus I have a Hitachi Home Bakery (HB-B101) and have yet to try it for lack of time (believe it or not! I have been moving and getting a house together takes time...). Anyhow, Hitachi will send you a booklet of recipies that have been submitted by other Hitachi owners. They say they are not guarenteed to work, but if they were submitted, my guess is that they will work. Once I dig them up, I will post them here. Renee Roberts ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Jan 93 10:49:32 PST From: obrien@netcom.com (No parking EXCEPT FOR BOB) Subject: Re: BREAD Digest V4 #2 Message-ID: <9301191849.AA29804@netcom.netcom.com> > - How long do you let a loaf cool before you wrap it up in plastic? > I've read that wrapping it too soon makes it soggy. I always take a good look at the crust, comparing it to how hard I want it to be, and leave the loaf in the open on my cutting board for an amount of time I just guess from experience. Then I put it into a big rubbermaid container at the "right" time. This right time also depends on just what bread it is - for sandwich bread, that I'm going to slice all at once, I want it fairly soft, but for some, I like a crisp, hard crust, so those sit out maybe a little longer. Sometimes, I pop it right into the container, but then once or twice during the next day or so, I bring it out, wipe the condensation of the plastic, and put it back. > - Should the flour be sifted before you put it into the machine? I never have. I, too, have a DAK machine that I'm completely satisfied with. My mom has the "Turbo" model and is likewise. Neither of us had needed to get one serviced. DAK is probably still in reorganization-bankruptcy, so I strongly recommend using *only* credit cards to do business with them, but I also hope people do, because I'd like to see them survive it. Bob O'Brien -- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1993 19:39:20 -0500 (EST) From: "J. J. Larrea" Subject: Re: DAK Machine etc. Message-ID: <199301200039.AA00540@sun.Panix.Com> Though I would prefer a square loaf, I'm quite happy with the DAK machine. DAK doesn't build equipment; they just buy in high enough volume that sometimes they get their logo stamped on the housing. In the case of their breadmaker, I'm pretty sure it's the same one sold by Welbilt. I'm new to this mailing-list, so please accept my apologies in advance if the following is redundant in light of prior discussions: I asked Santa for a bread-machine cookbook, and was rewarded with the horribly-titled "The Best Bread Machine Cookbook Ever", by Madge Rosenberg, founder of one of the nicest bakeries in N.Y. Having nothing to compare with, I can't say whether it's truly the "best", but it sure is better than the cookbook that came with the DAK machine. I've been quite pleased, especially with a Panettone (for which the round DAK/Welbilt loaf is perfect). She also discusses the difference between many different models, including the old "yeast on top or on the bottom" question (though she always says to do what the manufacturer recommends). And maybe it is stupid of me to not have realized this before, but she really stresses the need to measure exactly. I was always somewhat interpretive in my breadmaking, like my cooking. So possibly I prefer these recipes to the DAK book just because I'm following them more closely. But they're also crafted more tightly: not "a packet of yeast", but "1 3/4 tsp. yeast", the amount varying from recipe to recipe. The textures have been perfect, and I think this exactitude may explain why. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Jan 93 13:58:11 EST From: Jeff Subject: DAK Motors I think the trouble with the DAK machines is that their motors aren't strong enough for the heavier breads, including some of their own recipes. That is, some of their motors are up to the load and others not. Poor quality control. After having to return the first baker (dented) and second (motor blew) I've had good luck for almost a year with the third by not baking heavy loaves. Frustrating, but they did replace two machines for me. I've noticed, also, in some discount flyers (like DAMART) that the Wellbilt is offered in "factory refurbished" form, so clearly there's a problem with the machine. But I'm happy baking pretty standard-type breads with it, they come out fine, and I really like being able to see the bread thru the dome as it kneads and rises, something the high-priced machines usually don't permit. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Jan 93 12:04:45 -0700 From: diana@bert.cs.byu.edu (DIANA S HALEY) Subject: Zojirubushi Bread makers Message-ID: <9301191904.AA07858@bert.cs.byu.edu> I am planning on buying a breadmaker in the near future, and would like to be given hints on the "best" ones. (Of course, "best" can be relative.) In particular, I would like to know how well the zojirubushi breadmaker works. I want to look up a Consumer Reports issue that deals with breadmakers, but would also like to have some opinion from actual owners. Thanks! Diana ------------------------------ End of Bread Digest V4 #3 ****************************** Bread Digest Wed, 27 Jan 1993 Volume 4 : Issue 4 Today's Topics: Burnt-tasting crust DAK Motors How to get mix-in items into the dough Lemon Poppyseed Bread Loaf Slicing Panasonic Bread Maker RECIPE: Dill Parsley Bread zojirushi ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 20 Jan 93 09:46:00 PST From: Tom Haley Subject: Message-ID: <9301201335.aa19997@ncrcom.DaytonOH.NCR.COM> In response to the 'reviews' I have a zojirubushi bread maker that I am verry happy with. My parents have bought one and so did my sister. It makes nice size loafs, lots of options, cleans easy, has an 800 number for help (my mom says they are nice and helpful), and has always worked very well. I have the Bread maker I & III cookbooks. They have always worked well in my machine. (I even make all three sizes.) tom ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 23 Jan 93 14:40:03 PST From: Patti Beadles Subject: Burnt-tasting crust Message-ID: I have a wonderful recipe for orange bread, but no matter what I do, the outside of the crust comes out tasting burnt. I suspect that the sugar in the bread (1/4 cup) is the problem, but I haven't found a solution. Anybody have any ideas? -- Patti Beadles 503/696-4358 | I don't speak for Intel, nor vice-versa. patti@hosehead.intel.com | 75555.767@compuserve.com | If it wasn't for the last minute, or just yell, "Hey, Patti!" | I'd never get anything done! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1993 14:56:18 EST From: Jim Carey Subject: Re: DAK Motors Message-ID: <00966E5B.80EEA080.23598@cykick.infores.com> From: Jeff >Frustrating, but they did >replace two machines for me. I've noticed, also, in some discount >flyers (like DAMART) that the Wellbilt is offered in "factory >refurbished" form, so clearly there's a problem with the machine. But DAK also sells refurbished machines; our first one was "used". It looked like it walked off somebody's counter (I know it did off ours; 5 AM, it was fine but our glass measuring cup was in several pieces). Jim Carey jcarey@cykick.infores.com or jim.carey@infores.com Information Resources, Inc. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Jan 93 18:29:58 PST From: olpe@etdesg.TRW.COM (Peter R. Olpe) Subject: How to get mix-in items into the dough Message-ID: <9301200229.AA03577@mamacass.etdesg.TRW.COM> I've made several different breads using my Hitachi 201 (?). At the beep I add whatever mix-in items I need (e.g. raisins, pepperoni) Typically the items never get *into* the dough: they just whip around the outside during the needing, and bake at the bottom. Any suggestions? Anyone else have this problem? -Pete Olpe- olpe@mamacass.etdesg.trw.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 24 Jan 93 10:07:26 PST From: Patti Beadles Subject: Lemon Poppyseed Bread Message-ID: As far as I know, this is an original. It's sized for a 1.5 pound (R2D2-style) Welbilt. 1 package yeast 3 cups bread flour 1/4 cup sugar 1 teaspoon salt 1 tablespoon butter 1 egg 2 teaspoons dried, grated lemon rind 1/2 teaspoon lemon extract 7 oz lemonade * 1/4 cup very hot water 2 teaspoons poppyseeds Throw everything in and press play. I use the white bread setting. * I know that 7 oz is a weird measurement, but it seems to be what works. If I use a full cup, then it comes out very gooey, and 3/4 cup is a little too dry. Also, I make this with refrigerated lemonade and the hottest tap water I can get, but I always use the timer. The proper way to do it would be to heat the lemonade and water to 130oF or so. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Jan 93 07:59:23 CST From: longo!longo@attdrs.att.com Subject: Loaf Slicing Message-ID: <9301201359.AA06820@longo.federation> Has anyone found a good way to slice up a loaf of bread made from a Welbuilt/DAK 1.5lb breadmaker? I love my breadmaker, but usually have a difficult time slicing the bread with any uniform consistency. This would be nice for sandwiches especially. Thanks, Mike Longo ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Jan 93 10:52:10 EST From: Sandy=Serkes%Mktg.Corp%PTLcambridge@camb1.ptltd.com Subject: Panasonic Bread Maker Hi Everyone, I am not the email goddess that some of you are, but here's my 2 cents. I own a Panasonic bread maker, which I have never seen anyone mention in this mailing list! It's great. I have had very few problems with it, and I think they were all my fault (old yeast, forgot the water, etc.). I think it may be expensive (it was a gift), but it's worth it. I have had the machine for almost 3 years, and nothing has ever broken. I also don't measure too accurately which is how I can use the DAK 3 cup recipes in my 2-cup machine. Everyting still comes out delicious. I highly recommend it to anyone looking to buy a machine. As far as cost goes, instead of thinking of the immediate cost of the machine, think about the money you will save on bread! I estimate it costs me about 25 cents to make bread as opposed to $1.39 to buy it! If you have your machine for 10 or 15 years, it's got to be worth spending more for a quality machine. -Sandy ---------------- No cute sayings, just my email address: sandys@ptltd.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Jan 93 8:57:10 CST From: margaret@msw104i.b24b.ingr.com (Margaret Wiginton) Subject: RECIPE: Dill Parsley Bread Message-ID: <199301251457.AA08719@msw104i.b24b.ingr.com> Hi all, Here's a recipe from "The Bread Machine Cookbook III," by Donna Rathmell German. I made it last week and it was very good -- pretty, too. (BTW, have the recipes from this book been posted before?) DILL PARSLEY BREAD SMALL MEDIUM LARGE water 2/3 cup 3/4 cup 1 cup olive oil 1/4 cup 1/4+ cup 1/3 cup sugar 1/2 tsp. 2/3 tsp. 3/4 tsp. salt 1/4 tsp. 1/3 tsp. 1/2 tsp. parsley 1 tbs. 1 1/3 tbs. 1 1/2 tbs. dill weed 1 tbs. 1 1/3 tbs. 1 1/2 tbs. bread flour 2 cups 2 1/2 cups 3 cups nonfat dry milk 3 tbs. 1/4 cup 5 tbs. yeast 1 1/2 tsp. 2 tsp. 2 1/2 tsp. flour equiv: 2 cups 2 1/2 cups 3 cups cycle: white; timer setting: medium ________________________ Margaret margaret@msw104i.b24b.ingr.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Jan 93 10:29:09 EST From: sandy@pt.Cyanamid.COM (Sandy Silverman) Subject: zojirushi Message-ID: <9301201529.AA01000@nmr1.pt.Cyanamid.COM> Someone asked about the Zojirushi. We have one (not sure what model). It has worked very well, except it seems to need a little help with kneading dense breads. I think the motor is 91 watts. If you will do a lot of this kind of bread you might want a more powerful machine. P. S. I always use the "french bread" setting even for rye and the like because the rising times seem better; any comments. Also, this model has one programable setting but you have to babysit through the whole procedure to set it. ------------------------------ End of Bread Digest V4 #4 ****************************** Bread Digest Thu, 4 Feb 1993 Volume 4 : Issue 5 Today's Topics: BREAD Digest V4 #4 (2 msgs) Burnt-tasting crust Lemon Poppyseed Bread Loaf Slicing (2 msgs) Response to BREAD SLICING Slicing bread ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 27 Jan 93 23:31:59 CST From: hinz@picard.med.ge.com (David Hinz (hinz@picard.med.ge.com)) Subject: Re: BREAD Digest V4 #4 Message-ID: <9301280531.AA08578@picard.med.ge.com> I've got a DAK machine, and I seem to be having trouble getting the bread to rise to the desired hight. When I first got it, I had several loaves which would hit the dome, such as the egg bread and other light, fluffy ones. Now, the same recipes don't rise as far. I've used the redstar packets, Fleischmann's packets, and am now using Redstar in a bottle, and it doesn't seem to make a difference. The biggest reason I'm interested is that I've been trying to make a nut bread for a neighbor who gave me a bunch of black walnuts (actually from my tree, but he did all the work shelling & so on). I made a loaf using Dak's recipe that's in the small book which comes with the breadmaker, but I had a nice pudding pocket in the top, and it didn't even rise to half the height of the 'can' inside. Any suggestions? Is it a winter thing, a yeast thing, a machine problem, or should I be using the sweet bread or french bread settings? How does the 'turbo' setting effect the rising of the bread? Thank you for any information you can help with. Dave Hinz hinz@picard.med.ge.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Jan 93 23:50:15 -0700 From: meridiem@lamar.ColoState.EDU (Jill Engel) Subject: Re: BREAD Digest V4 #4 Message-ID: <9301280650.AA89381@lamar.ColoState.EDU> In response to Mike Longo's request for ways to slice the DAK/Welbilt bread: The way I've found to get even sandwich size slices is to tip the loaf on its side and slice it, such that the slices are circular. These are about sandwich size and if you use loose fillings, it works well. For parties, I usually slice wedges, but these are not consistant.. still yummy though. And for the person asking about different breadmakers, I'm another satisfied DAK owner. No problems at all and I love the glass dome... Jill ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Jan 93 08:24:44 PST From: hyler@ast.saic.com (Buffy Hyler) Subject: Re: Burnt-tasting crust Message-ID: <9301281624.AA11877@astech.ast.saic.com> >I have a wonderful recipe for orange bread, but no matter what I do, >the outside of the crust comes out tasting burnt. I suspect that >the sugar in the bread (1/4 cup) is the problem, but I haven't found >a solution. Anybody have any ideas? You didn't say what type of machine you were using, but if it is a DAK/Welbilt R2D2 there is a control on the side to control the temperature going from 'light' to 'dark'. Whenever I make a sweet bread I crank this all the way to light the first time I make the recipe and then make a note on how the crust came out. Mostly that is the correct setting for my machine. But I usually set it towards light on all my recipes so my temperature control might be slightly biased towards dark. Check your machine and your manual to see if it talks about this setting. Oh, I am also assuming you are using the Sweet Bread setting to cook. --------------------------------------------------------------------- Buffy Hyler (hyler@ast.saic.com) SAIC, Campus Point San Diego, California --------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1993 17:21:28 -0500 (EST) From: carols@world.std.com (Carol Springs) Subject: Re: Lemon Poppyseed Bread Message-ID: <199301282221.AA29004@world.std.com> In Vol. 4, Issue 4, Patti Beadles writes: > Also, I make this with refrigerated lemonade and > the hottest tap water I can get, but I always use the timer. The > proper way to do it would be to heat the lemonade and water to 130oF > or so. Thanks for the recipe for lemon poppyseed bread! I plan to try it out soon. Just a caveat: I would caution people, in general, to heat cold tap water rather than using hot water from the tap. Hot tap water can contain stuff leached from the pipes that people would just as soon not have in their bread. I find that heating the water isn't all that much extra trouble. -- Carol Springs carols@world.std.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Jan 93 08:41:01 PST From: hyler@ast.saic.com (Buffy Hyler) Subject: Re: Loaf Slicing Message-ID: <9301281641.AA11979@astech.ast.saic.com> >Has anyone found a good way to slice up a loaf of bread made >from a Welbuilt/DAK 1.5lb breadmaker? I love my breadmaker, >but usually have a difficult time slicing the bread with any >uniform consistency. This would be nice for sandwiches especially. I've had excellent success with my electric knife. I also have a bread knife but I get thinner, straighter slices when I use the electric knife. Also, do not cut the bread as soon as it is done, let it cool off completely before cutting (unless it is chocolate chip bread, in which case it is usually consumed in hunks anyway and gone before it has a chance to cool! :-) --------------------------------------------------------------------- Buffy Hyler (hyler@ast.saic.com) SAIC, Campus Point San Diego, California --------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1993 13:24:10 -0600 (CST) From: mikeb@pandora.dell.com (Michael Brundridge) Subject: Loaf Slicing Message-ID: <9301281924.AA17028@pandora.dell.com> > From: longo!longo@attdrs.att.com > Subject: Loaf Slicing > > Has anyone found a good way to slice up a loaf of bread made > from a Welbuilt/DAK 1.5lb breadmaker? I love my breadmaker, > but usually have a difficult time slicing the bread with any > uniform consistency. This would be nice for sandwiches especially. > > Thanks, Mike Longo Mike, We use a powered meat slicer that we purchased at Best for $30 or so. We use it to slice the bread, and things like bulk ham, cheese, etc. that we buy. It works great on the bread, you can adjust it to any thickness you like up to about 1 1/4" or so. Look at places like Sears, JC Penneys, Service Mercandise, Best Products, etc. and you should be able to find one. They sell ones that have plastic cases (like ours) or heavy duty ones made out of all metal. -- Michael Brundridge | Dell Computer Corp | STANDARD mikeb@pandora.dell.com | 1807 W. Braker Ln | DISCLAIMER Associate Staff Engineer | Building C | APPLIES Novell CNE | Austin, Tx 78758 | 512-338-4400 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Jan 93 09:35:59 PST From: bmartin@iit.com (Bryan Martin) Subject: Response to BREAD SLICING Message-ID: <9301281735.AA02389@iitbarr.iit.com> In response to Mike Longo's question about loaf slicing, I have always found that an electric knife works much better than any normal knife (even bread knives) for slicing homemade bread. These electric knives usually sell for around $12, and are intended to be used for slicing or carving meat (we used to only get it out around the Holidays, or for that occasional roast dinner). But they work great on homemade bread! You'll find you have a lot more control over the thickness of the slice you desire, and assuming you keep the knife straight as you cut it, your slice will be very uniform and "sandwichable". For the round Welbuilt/ DAK models, it's best to turn the round loaf on its side when cutting-- it's true you end up with round sandwiches, but then that just calls more attention to the fact that people are enjoying homemade bread. Hope this helps.... -Bryan ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Feb 93 11:31:18 PST From: celia@plato.ds.boeing.com (Celia H Modell) Subject: Slicing bread Message-ID: <9302011931.AA15403@plato.ds.boeing.com> Mike Longo writes: >Has anyone found a good way to slice up a loaf of bread made from a >Welbuilt/DAK 1.5lb breadmaker? >I love my breadmaker, but usually have a difficult time slicing the bread with >any uniform consistency. This would be nice for sandwiches especially. What works for us is a breadknife that we bought at a rennissance faire in Colorado. It is a knife blade held in a wooden handle with one slice of bread's width between the blade and the handle. It works great for slicing any bread, including the round loafs that my DAK machine puts out. I've seen these sort of knives at other faire's and craft shops. I also bought the sandwich maker to go with the DAK bread machines and it seems to work fine although we haven't used it that much yet as it's pretty new. celia celia@plato.ds.boeing.com ------------------------------ End of Bread Digest V4 #5 ****************************** Bread Digest Fri, 12 Feb 1993 Volume 4 : Issue 6 Today's Topics: BREAD Digest V4 #5 (2 msgs) Bread rising problem burnt crust, mix-in items, miscellanious RECIPE: Golden Cheese Bread ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 5 Feb 93 9:06:43 EST From: jane@apollo.hp.com Subject: Re: BREAD Digest V4 #5 > I made a loaf using > Dak's recipe that's in the small book which comes with the breadmaker, > but I had a nice pudding pocket in the top, and it didn't even rise to > half the height of the 'can' inside. I suggest that you add 2 tablespoons of gluten. Gluten will take care of the problem during times when atmospheric pressure is unfavorable for rising. I often use gluten in recipes that do not have bread flour as the primary ingredient. You might experiment to see how much you need. BTW, I used to mail order gluten from the DAK catalog, but now that DAK is having its financial difficulties, I haven't received a catalog in a long time, so I'm not sure if it's still available from that source. Good luck! Jane Marcus jane@apollo.hp.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Feb 93 16:22:55 PST From: dlou@ece.UCSD.EDU (Dennis Lou) Subject: Re: BREAD Digest V4 #5 Message-ID: <9302060022.AA17279@kurosawa> >Date: Wed, 27 Jan 93 23:31:59 CST >From: hinz@picard.med.ge.com (David Hinz (hinz@picard.med.ge.com)) >Subject: Re: BREAD Digest V4 #4 >Message-ID: <9301280531.AA08578@picard.med.ge.com> > >I've got a DAK machine, and I seem to be having trouble getting the >bread to rise to the desired hight. When I first got it, I had several >loaves which would hit the dome, such as the egg bread and other light, >fluffy ones. Now, the same recipes don't rise as far. I've used the >redstar packets, Fleischmann's packets, and am now using Redstar in a >bottle, and it doesn't seem to make a difference. > >The biggest reason I'm interested is that I've been trying to make a nut >bread for a neighbor who gave me a bunch of black walnuts (actually from >my tree, but he did all the work shelling & so on). I made a loaf using >Dak's recipe that's in the small book which comes with the breadmaker, >but I had a nice pudding pocket in the top, and it didn't even rise to >half the height of the 'can' inside. > >Any suggestions? Is it a winter thing, a yeast thing, a machine problem, >or should I be using the sweet bread or french bread settings? How does >the 'turbo' setting effect the rising of the bread? What time of year did you buy your machine (i.e. when was it making nice high loaves)? Where are you (geographically) located? I live in San Diego 3 blocks from the beach and have had a DAK Turbo since November. Sometimes the loaves reach the top of the can and sometimes they are 3/4 the height of the can. The only thing I can ascertain is that it is a atmospheric/seasonal thing. Some things that have helped are to line the top of the machine with foil, use gluten and use the sweet bread setting. While these things have helped me a little, it would seem that something is seriously wrong with my geographic location since a friend with an identical unit had no problems inland but had the same problems I had when he took it to my house. > >Thank you for any information you can help with. > >Dave Hinz hinz@picard.med.ge.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Feb 93 12:45:53 PST From: mdcsc!gdh@uunet.UU.NET (Garrett Hildebrand) Subject: Bread rising problem Message-ID: <9302052045.AA01553@mdcsc> In Bread Digest, Thursday, 4 Feb, 1993, Volume 4, Issue 5, David Hinz (hinz@picard.med.ge.com) states, >I've got a DAK machine, and I seem to be having trouble getting the >bread to rise to the desired hight. When I first got it, I had several >loaves which would hit the dome, such as the egg bread and other light, >fluffy ones. Now, the same recipes don't rise as far. I've used the >redstar packets, Fleischmann's packets, and am now using Redstar in a >bottle, and it doesn't seem to make a difference. Four possibilities come to mind: 1. The use of oil in a recipie will affect rising. Oil inhibits the rise. 2. Is the temperature correct? Some people add ingredients which are out of a refridgerator and this causes the warm water added to cool down. The yeast need a particular environment to thrive, temperature-wise. 3. I have heard of people substituting "light sugar!" The yeast need real sugar, honey or molassis to get started. 4. Have you moved your bread machine to a cold or drafty area? Garrett Hildebrand mdcsc%gdh@uunet.UU.NET or uunet!mdcsc!gdh ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Feb 93 17:47:04 -0700 From: Lisa Stroyan Subject: Re: burnt crust, mix-in items, miscellanious Message-ID: <9302060047.AA13330@vger.sde.hp.com> Hi! This is my first time posting to this list. I have enjoyed the "conversations" so far. I have a few comments - hope no-one minds that they are all mixed together (let me know for the future if you do). First, I think I have a "ChefMate Bakery Oven" - in little print on the back, it says "Seiko". It has most of the "standard" features, and the only things I wish it had are warm-up on timer mode, and possibly that "beep" to tell you to add ingredients (but see below). Anyone else have one of these? Comments? (One person asks:) > I have a wonderful recipe for orange bread, but no matter what I do, > the outside of the crust comes out tasting burnt. I suspect that > the sugar in the bread (1/4 cup) is the problem, but I haven't found > a solution. Anybody have any ideas? My machine has a "sweet bread" setting, which I believe is supposed to solve the problem. You might try cutting down both the sugar and maybe the salt (salt is supposed to regulate the yeast where sugar feeds it). Another thing to try is to go with your normal "good" white recipe, and add/substitute ingredients. For example, instead of following cinnamon raisin bread recipes, at first I took the "white" recipe and added the same amounts of spice/raisins that the real recipe called for. Can we get a copy of your orange bread? Mine never comes out very orange-y. (Another person asks:) > I've made several different breads using my Hitachi 201 (?). > At the beep I add whatever mix-in items I need > (e.g. raisins, pepperoni) > Typically the items never get *into* the dough: they > just whip around the outside during the needing, and > bake at the bottom. Try putting the ingredients in at the beginning - that is what I *have* to do. This works great with raisins - they aren't chopped up at all, and are evenly mixed in. Chocolate chips melt a bit and are marbled through the dough - I consider this a feature, although I still would be nervous about making this bread on the timer, because the chips would get so soft by the time it started that I would have chocolate bread instead! Lisa Stroyan ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 Feb 93 7:33:06 CST From: mswigint@msw104i.b24b.ingr.com (Margaret Wiginton) Subject: RECIPE: Golden Cheese Bread Message-ID: <199302081333.AA02804@msw104i.b24b.ingr.com> Here's another recipe from "The Bread Machine Cookbook III," by Donna Rathmell German. The books says its a "must try" and I totally agree. I served this bread with a big 'ole pot of homemade vegetable soup -- delicious! GOLDEN CHEESE BREAD SMALL MEDIUM LARGE buttermilk 2/3 cup 1 cup 1 1/2 cups butter 1 tbs. 1 1/2 tbs. 2 tbs. egg 1 1 1/2 2 grated cheddar 1/4 cup 1/3 cup 1/2 cup crumbled blue cheese 2 tbs. 3 tbs. 1/4 cup salt 1/4 tsp. 1/3 tsp. 1/2 tsp. coarse black pepper 1/8 tsp. 1/8+ tsp. 1/4 tsp. caraway seeds 1 tsp. 1 1/2 tsp. 2 tsp. wheat/oat flakes 1/2 cup 3/4 cup 1 cup bread flour 1 1/2 cups 2 1/4 cups 3 cups yeast 1 tsp. 1 1/2 tsp. 2 tsp. flour equivalents: 2 cups 3 cups 4 cups cycle: white, sweet; not timer (buttermilk, eggs) setting: light to medium -- ________________________ Margaret mswigint@msw104i.b24b.ingr.com ------------------------------ End of Bread Digest V4 #6 ****************************** Bread Digest Tue, 16 Feb 1993 Volume 4 : Issue 7 Today's Topics: BREAD Digest V4 #6 Gluten availability Lemon Poppyseed Bread Orange Bread Slicing Bread Square Loaves Welbilt Service? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 13 Feb 93 10:59:45 PDT From: ace@tidbits.com (Adam C. Engst) Subject: Re: BREAD Digest V4 #6 Message-ID: As far as cheese bread goes, I've found that the best method is to make an egg bread (I use the recipe in the DAK booklet), and then cube about a cup of cheese (cheddar, muenster, provolone, whatever). Add _half_ of the cheese when you start the machine, and when it beeps a few minutes before the end of the kneading cycle, add the other half of the cheese. That way you actually get some cheesiness noticeable in the bread, rather than just a nice loaf of heavy bread that tastes like cheese. It's best warm or toasted, and we often chomp an entire loaf quickly just as it comes out of the breadmaker. cheers ... -Adam (Please excuse my brevity - I'm trying to avoid hurting my wrists.) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Adam C. Engst | We sharpen the cutting edge. Editor of TidBITS, the weekly | "The best way to predict the future electronic industry newsletter | is to invent it." -Alan Kay ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ace@tidbits.com (my personal address) info@tidbits.com (information about TidBITS and our mailing list) sponsors@tidbits.com (informational files on our sponsors' products) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Feb 93 12:45:20 MST From: Rick Myers Subject: Gluten availability Message-ID: <9302161945.AA13996@hpctdfc.col.hp.com> > Jane Marcus: jane@apollo.hp.com: > I suggest that you add 2 tablespoons of gluten. Gluten will take care > of the problem during times when atmospheric pressure is unfavorable > for rising. I often use gluten in recipes that do not have bread flour > as the primary ingredient. You might experiment to see how much you need. > BTW, I used to mail order gluten from the DAK catalog, but now that DAK > is having its financial difficulties, I haven't received a catalog in a > long time, so I'm not sure if it's still available from that source. Gluten is readily available from almost any health/natural/organic food store - you should not have to mail order it. It sells for $2.00 to $3.00 a pound, less if you buy in bulk. Rick ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1993 11:05:39 -0500 (EST) From: "James J. Murawski" Subject: Re: Lemon Poppyseed Bread Message-ID: <8fTvxHe00Uh_43Epww@andrew.cmu.edu> On 28-Jan-93 in Re: Lemon Poppyseed Bread user Carol Springs@world.std. writes: >In Vol. 4, Issue 4, Patti Beadles writes: > >> Also, I make this with refrigerated lemonade and >> the hottest tap water I can get, but I always use the timer. The >> proper way to do it would be to heat the lemonade and water to 130oF >> or so. > >Thanks for the recipe for lemon poppyseed bread! I plan to try it out >soon. I made the lemon poppyseed bread last week, and it's delicious. The only thing I'll change next time I make it is to use 2 tsp. of rapid rise yeast instead of one packet. It grew a bit too much and stuck to the lid of my breadmaker (Hitachi B201). >Just a caveat: I would caution people, in general, to heat cold tap >water rather than using hot water from the tap. Hot tap water can >contain stuff leached from the pipes that people would just as soon not >have in their bread. I find that heating the water isn't all that much >extra trouble. I poured the water and lemonade into a cup and microwaved it for about 50 seconds to get it hot. ==================================================================== Jim Murawski Sr. Software Engineer (412) 268-2650 [office] Administrative Computing and (412) 268-6868 [fax] Information Services jjm+@andrew.cmu.edu Carnegie Mellon University Office: UCC 155 4910 Forbes Avenue Pittsburgh, PA 15213-3890 "Le Mieux! Le Magnifique! Soixante Six! Claude...NON!" There are 1435 days until Bill Clinton leaves office. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Feb 93 21:37:32 PST From: Patti Beadles Subject: Orange Bread Message-ID: As promised, here's the Orange Bread recipe. Orange Bread (adapted from various recipes) 1 pkg yeast 3 cups bread flour 1/4 cup sugar 1 tsp salt 1 tbsp butter 1 egg 2 tbsp grated orange rind 1 cup orange juice 1/4 cup warm water 1 tsp orange extract I suspect the real trick to getting a strong orange flavor is the orange extract. Use the sweet bread setting if you have one; I had a lot of trouble with burnt-tasting crusts with this recipe. In the Welbilt model, I sometimes got gooey centers (although 90% of the loaf was excellent.) I can't wait to try it in my new Zojirushi. :-) Speaking of which, does anybody know how to feed the silly thing a custom program without actually sitting through the whole cycle? According to the sales clerk it's possible, but she didn't know exactly how to do it. -Patti (who never imagined she'd find a bread machine that makes jelly, of all things.) -- Patti Beadles 503/696-4358 | I don't speak for Intel, nor vice-versa. patti@hosehead.intel.com | 75555.767@compuserve.com | If it wasn't for the last minute, or just yell, "Hey, Patti!" | I'd never get anything done! ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Feb 93 01:31 EST From: popcorn@cyberspace.org (Valerie Mates) Subject: Slicing Bread Message-ID: I've got the Welbilt R2D2 style machine, which I'm quite happy with. To slice tall loaves of bread, I usually use a steak knife to slice the bread in half horizontally. Then I slice each half into parallel vertical slices. This makes for long thin slices that look a bit odd but are easy to use for sandwiches and toast. The most recent DAK catalog has a gadget to use to cut a loaf into evenly parallel circles. It's about $30 and comes with a flour sifter. -Valerie Mates popcorn@cyberspace.org -or- popcorn@grex.ann-arbor.mi.us ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Feb 93 08:09:21 EST From: Warren.Clark@East.Sun.COM (Warren Clark - Online Publishing) Subject: Square Loaves Message-ID: <9302161309.AA03957@chirp.East.Sun.COM> I have a DAK/Welbuilt breadmaker which usually works really well. Trouble is that I like "normal" rectangular loaves. Fortunately, I have a pretty easy solution. I cook the bread in my convection/ microwave oven. Actually, I only use the convection setting on the oven and I am sure that a variant of my technique would work using a conventional oven. I use the breadmaker to make the dough. I modify the recipe to use 4 cups of flour. (This gives me just the right amount of dough to put into two medium size bread pans.) I let it run through the first mix/knead cycle, the first rise cycle, and the second knead cycle. I also make sure that the consistency is right. Sometimes I sprinkle in some extra flour so that the dough is not stickey. When the dough is ready, I flour the countertop and then dump the dough onto the counter. I cut the dough in half, form two fat tubes the length of the bread pan and place them in the pans which I have previously sprayed with Pam. I tuck them into the convection oven and set the oven to run at 100 degrees for 45 minutes or so and then to run at 450 for 20 minutes. The result is homebaked bread that looks like it was made by your grandmother rather than your bread machine. There are some good variations on this approach. One is using a larger pan to make a 3 cup loaf. Another is actually checking the bread after it has risen in the convection oven to make sure that it has risen enough. A third is letting it rise at 150 degrees for 20 minutes. I think this might eventually kill the yeast, but apparently, they run their little yeast hearts out before they expire. This is also a good way to make a loaf quickly. In fact you can shorten the first rise cycle once the bread seems to have risen enough. When you want it to start the second kneading, just press the clear button and start it over. (You will be taking the bread out of the machine as soon as it stops kneading anyway, so it doesn't matter if the machine "thinks" it is doing a first kneading when it is really doing a second one.) Don't forget to shut the machine off (press clear) when you are done. Left alone, the machine will try to continue baking. One other suggestion has to do with wiping flour off your counter top. Never use your sponge when there is a lot of flour. Use a paper towel instead. Whenever I try to use the sponge, I end up with a big glob of paste with a sponge in the middle of it - which does not want to rinse out. Warren ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Feb 93 17:30:34 PST From: Patti Beadles Subject: Welbilt Service? Message-ID: Well, R2D2 bit the dust the other day. Apparently I asked him to make something (a really killer sounding buttermilk cinnamon raisin bread) that was too dense for him. The loaf was a very tasty and wonderful smelling brick, but when I tried to use the machine after that, nothing. I press start, and it clicks once. I suspect that I can kiss the motor goodbye. :-( I called the place that services them, and they said an average repair was about $50, which included the cost of them shipping it back to me. I'm tempted to go buy a new machine, and then either have the old one fixed and keep it around for a "spare", or give it to a friend and let her cope with it. How is the Welbilt service center? Is $50 a reasonable estimate? I know that the Welbilt/DAK motors are notorious for being wimps. What brands have motors that are more capable? -- Patti Beadles 503/696-4358 | I don't speak for Intel, nor vice-versa. patti@hosehead.intel.com | 75555.767@compuserve.com | If it wasn't for the last minute, or just yell, "Hey, Patti!" | I'd never get anything done! ------------------------------ End of Bread Digest V4 #7 ****************************** Bread Digest Wed, 24 Feb 1993 Volume 4 : Issue 8 Today's Topics: BREAD Digest V4 #7 (2 msgs) Breadlist submission Pre-made bread mixes Recipes from "The Bread Machine Cookbook III" ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 17 Feb 1993 20:24:31 -0500 (EST) From: Brenner@drew.drew.edu, Gabriel Stephen Subject: Re: BREAD Digest V4 #7 Message-ID: <01GUUAHNW8N6002X3B@drew.drew.edu> This is in reply to Patti Beadles re: service to the DAK\Welbuilt machine. We had our unit serviced by Welbuilt in North Jersey and it was just fine. Cost was about 50-55 and included replacement of the chip (hope it wasn't intel). Took a couple of weeks though. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1993 10:53 EST From: "Allen J. Michielsen" Subject: Re: BREAD Digest V4 #7 Message-ID: <01GUWJ49D8F4ASB9GW@Sunrise.Syr.Edu> >From: IN%"BREAD@cykick.infores.com" >From: Rick Myers >Subject: Gluten availability[B >> Jane Marcus: jane@apollo.hp.com: >> I suggest that you add 2 tablespoons of gluten. Gluten will take care of... >> ... I often use gluten in recipes that do not have bread flour >> as the primary ingredient. You might experiment to see how much you need.... >Gluten is readily available from almost any health/natural/organic >food store - you should not have to mail order it. It sells for >$2.00 to $3.00 a pound, less if you buy in bulk. Having done this myself, I can easily relate the following... Nobody seems to know what 'Gluten' is, nor can they find it any of their standard 'health source' catalogs. However, it is often listed under something like "Whole Wheat Gluten, Pure Wheat Gluten Extract, or Natural Wheat Gluten" The Key words seems to be WHEAT Gluten in combination with a Whole, Pure, &/or Natural. I stumbled across it in a old fashioned (industrial/resturant) supply, for about $ .70 /lb. I supose that gluten from other types of grain is possible, but that the wheat kernel is high (highest) in high quality gluten suitable for breads. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Feb 93 21:12:05 EST From: realini@med.unc.edu (Anthony David Realini) Subject: Breadlist submission Message-ID: <9302190212.AA11373@cahaba.med.unc.edu> I bought my wife a Dak machine three years ago, and to be real honest, neither of us has been overly impressed with the quality of the bread it makes. The consistency of the loaves has been the biggest problem--the white is too coarse, and the crust is entirely too thick and crunchy, despite all the recommended modifications. This week we finally decided to consider our machine a bread-*kneading* machine, and after the manual cycle runs through, we pop out the dough, toss it in a loaf pan, let it rise 25-30 minutes, then bake at 350 degrees for about a half-hour. The result: the best bread I've ever had, with a total prep time of just over an hour from the time we start getting our ingredients out to the time we start pigging out. Of course, it's not as neat and handy as we'd have liked, but we're at least *using* the machine again. **************************************************************************** * Tony Realini UNC-CH School of Medicine realini@med.unc.edu * * Class of 1993 * * * * "Tell me son, which is it: * * are you *trying* to screw up, or do you just not care?" * * --Robert Croom, M.D. (surgeon) * **************************************************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 Feb 93 15:05:06 PST From: Renee@cup.portal.com Subject: Pre-made bread mixes Message-ID: <9302211505.1.10959@cup.portal.com> Many of the classier department stores have bread mixes that have everything in them, except for the water. The jest being is that you dump it in, add the water, and press go on whatever maker you have. Haven't tried these yet, but with some of the interesting flavors offered, I am tempted. The downside of these is the cost per loaf. They are just as high, if not higher than commercially prepared loaves. One thing I have found and am trying is a box of mixes that I got at Costco Wholesale. Krusteaz Bread and Roll Mix has six different bread mixes and yeast in the box: Sourdough Honey Wheat Berry Garden Herb Harvest Wheat Homestyle Cracked Wheat Anyhow, although more expensive that getting the ingredients myself and mixing them together, it is less expensive than the ones at the department stores. I am giving them a try this weekend, and will let everyone know how they turn out! Cheers! Renee Roberts (Renee@cup.portal.com) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Feb 93 08:42:42 MST From: nkn@Solbourne.COM (Neil Nelson) Subject: Recipes from "The Bread Machine Cookbook III" Message-ID: <9302171542.AA08762@underdog.Solbourne.COM> Am I the only person who feels uncomfortable with seeing recipes reprinted from Donna German's books? Come on people -- you are violating Ms. German's copy- rights! Her books are all excellent, and I strongly encourage anybody with a bread machine to buy one or more of her books. But I sure hate to see her lose some potential sales from people who feel that they can just get all her wonderful recipes from the `net'. Neil K. Nelson UUCP: {uunet,boulder}!stan!nkn Solbourne Computer, Inc. Domain: nkn@solbourne.COM 1900 Pike Road Phone: (303) 678-4302 Longmont, CO 80501 Fax: (303) 678-4716 ------------------------------ End of Bread Digest V4 #8 ****************************** Bread Digest Wed, 3 Mar 1993 Volume 4 : Issue 9 Today's Topics: BREAD Digest V4 #8 (2 msgs) Bread Machine Cookbook Bread Machine cookbooks geography and bread Hitachi for $179 in Damark Recipes from "The Bread Machine Cookbook III" (2 msgs) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 25 Feb 93 13:54:10 EST From: fritz@ben.dev.upenn.edu (Katherine Fritz) Subject: Re: BREAD Digest V4 #8 Message-ID: <9302251854.AA04423@ben.dev.upenn.edu> I've never posted before, but I s'pose I should change that! I have a Welbilt R2-D2 model, and really enjoy it -- I joined the Red Star/Welbilt Bread club, or whatever they call it, and got 60-some recipes from them in a nice recipe box. Just before Christmas they sent me a fold-up card of bread-making tips that folds to fit in the recipe box along with (get this) several holiday bread recipes on 8-1/2x11 paper! (I haven't figured out why they didn't print those on 3x5 cards too! Oh, well.) anyway, I haven't seen anybody post these particular recipes (the holiday ones), and was wondering if there was interest. I'd be happy to post them if so. Katie Fritz Internet: fritz@ben.dev.upenn.edu CIS: 71257,3153 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Feb 93 09:00:16 PDT From: ace@tidbits.com (Adam C. Engst) Subject: Re: BREAD Digest V4 #8 Message-ID: In Regards to your letter <00968A06.C5162C80.29018@cykick.infores.com>: > Am I the only person who feels uncomfortable with seeing recipes reprinted from > Donna German's books? Come on people -- you are violating Ms. German's copy- > rights! As I understand it from a relative who writes cookbooks, recipes cannot be copyrighted, unlike any descriptive text around them. It makes a certain amount of sense - there's no reason to assume that two people couldn't come up with exactly the same recipe independently and both publish it. Thus, cookbook tradition states that you can copy a recipe (the specific ingredients) but you should put the instructions in your own words and if you are writing any preamble, copying is forbidden. Now, in this instance, although people are copying recipes fairly clearly, I would say that no matter what, Donna German wouldn't be too worried. With something like a cookbook, the only way to judge its value is to try the recipes, and people are more likely to try a recipe that's free than take a chance on buying the book first. That's why magazine articles often have reprints of recipes - it's excellent advertising for the book as a whole. If someone was to type in all of the recipes and make it available, that might violate not copyright, but misappropriation laws. They basically, as I understand it, state that you can't use the results of someone else's labor too completely. A quote is fine, a recipe is fine, but you can't just copy everything and expect people not to mind. cheers ... -Adam Disclaimer: I very well may have no clue what I'm talking about. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Feb 93 23:22:21 PST From: Clay Jackson Subject: Bread Machine Cookbook Message-ID: <9302242322.aa06380@cjsysv.UUCP> Neil K. Nelson writes about the copyrights on "The Bread Machine Cookbook(s)". I also feel uncomfortable about that. As a general comment, I've found her books (got all three) give VERY spotty results with my DAK machine. Most of the receipes have required additional liquid, and some (like the Pizza Dough one) I've tried repeatedly and never got right. Has anyone else had a similar experience? -- Clay Jackson - N7QNM clayj@cjsysv.wa.com | uunet!nwnexus!cjsysv!clayj ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Feb 93 15:29:52 EST From: dxy54@cas.org (Dennis Yep (x2456; 3384A)) Subject: Bread Machine cookbooks Message-ID: <9302251529.AA3817@cas.org> There have been so many new bread machine recipe books published the last few years that it is difficult to decide which one to buy. Are there any that are markedly better than the others? =============================================================================== Dennis Yep Internet: dxy54@cas.org Chemical Abstracts Service Bitnet: dxy54@cas.bitnet Columbus, OH 43210 Phone: (614)447-3600 Ext. 2456 =============================================================================== ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Mar 93 18:05:52 PST From: lyson@mprgate.mpr.ca (Angela Lyson) Subject: geography and bread Message-ID: <9303030205.AA03059@kiwi.mpr.ca> The recent discussion here about loaves not rising as nicely before was particularly interesting to me, since we have been having the same experience. We found that reducing the water and increasing the amount of yeast helped, but didn't give us the beautiful loaves we used to get when our machine was new. What has worked (so far) was moving our bread machine! It used to sit at one end of a counter, next to an outside wall. This wall faces north, and it probably has no insulation in it, either. In its new position, at an interior wall (and, it just so happens, next to the refrigerator), our bread machine has been making beautiful loaves again. Hope this information helps someone! ----- Angela Lyson lyson@mprgate.mpr.ca ...uunet!ubc-cs!mprgate!lyson MPR Teltech Ltd. 8999 Nelson Way All programmers are optimists. Perhaps this modern Burnaby, B.C. sorcery especially attracts those who believe in happy Canada V5A 4B5 endings and fairy godmothers. Frederick P. Brooks, Jr. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1993 22:52:57 -0500 From: Michael Hirsch Subject: Hitachi for $179 in Damark Message-ID: <9302250352.AA17432@cs.Princeton.EDU> If any of you are in the market for a machine (or know someone who is) Damark has a factory refurbished Hitachi for $179. This is the model with the jam and rice maker setting (which I have no plans to use) that usually sell for around $300. We just got ours and it's great. We're still experimenting with the basic whole wheat recipe and crust darkness, but so far everything has worked just fine. The kneader is a little scratched and we're thinking of trying to get it replaced, but other than that, no problems. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Feb 93 08:29:34 PST From: hyler@ast.saic.com (Buffy Hyler) Subject: Re: Recipes from "The Bread Machine Cookbook III" Message-ID: <9302251629.AA01077@astech.ast.saic.com> Neil Kelson writes: >Am I the only person who feels uncomfortable with seeing recipes reprinted from >Donna German's books? Come on people -- you are violating Ms. German's copy- >rights! Her books are all excellent, and I strongly encourage anybody with >a bread machine to buy one or more of her books. But I sure hate to see her >lose some potential sales from people who feel that they can just get all >her wonderful recipes from the `net'. I agree on your point if too many are reprinted, but I applaud those who reprint a few of their "favorites" along with the book and author's name. I know for a fact that I bought "The Bread Machine Cookbook I" because of exactly this. Someone posted a few recipes, I tried them at home, they were great, so I went out and bought the book. Not only that, I bought book II as well. So it actually got her two sale she might not otherwise have got. I've been burned too many times on bad cookbooks that I prefer to try a few recipes before investing. The net is a great way to promote this. Now, how many are "too many"? My opinion is that 1-3 recipes are ok, more than that borders on the complaint that you expressed. --------------------------------------------------------------------- Buffy Hyler (hyler@ast.saic.com) SAIC, Campus Point San Diego, California --------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Mar 93 9:28:25 CST From: mswigint@msw104i.b24b.ingr.com (Margaret Wiginton) Subject: Recipes from "The Bread Machine Cookbook III" Message-ID: <199303011528.AA02966@msw104i.b24b.ingr.com> Neil K. Nelson writes: *Am I the only person who feels uncomfortable with seeing *recipes reprinted from Donna German's books? Come on people *-- you are violating Ms. German's copyrights! Her books are *all excellent, and I strongly encourage anybody with a bread *machine to buy one or more of her books. But I sure hate to *see her lose some potential sales from people who feel that *they can just get all her wonderful recipes from the `net'. I understand your concern and I'm glad you brought this up, but I don't think that posting Ms. German's recipes will discourage sales of her books. On the contrary, since I started getting recipes from cooking-oriented newsgroups and mailing lists, I've purchased many, many cookbooks that I wouldn't have even noticed otherwise. (In fact, that's how I learned about Ms. German's books in the first place.) Not only have I gotten lots of good guidance about which books are best, I've had the opportunity to try out a recipe (or at least read it carefully) before investing my money. I should also point out that I don't post entire cookbooks (far from it), I don't claim that the recipes are my own, and I don't profit in anyway from posting them. Of course, I'll refrain from posting anymore of Ms. German's recipes (or anyone else's) if it makes the other readers of this mailing list uncomfortable too. It was (honestly) my understanding that recipe-sharing was one of the reasons the list was established. Comments? ________________________ Margaret mswigint@msw104i.b24b.ingr.com ------------------------------ End of Bread Digest V4 #9 ****************************** Bread Digest Thu, 11 Mar 1993 Volume 4 : Issue 10 Today's Topics: BREAD Digest V4 #9 Flour Storage Discovery Pizza Dough Success ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 4 Mar 93 10:36:05 EST From: Warren.Clark@East.Sun.COM (Warren Clark - Online Publishing) Subject: Re: BREAD Digest V4 #9 Message-ID: <9303041536.AA08818@chirp.East.Sun.COM> Yesterday, my wife put the little paddle from our WelBuilt DAK R2D2 Bread Maker into the Garbage Disposal. Fortunately, the Garbage Disposal was not damaged - I can't say the same about the little paddle. Anybody out there have a "burned out" machine? Maybe we could work out a deal on some of the parts. Besides the paddle, I would kind of like to replace the pan as well as the the little pin that sticks into the side of the pan. We have made so much bread that the pin no longer goes in tightly. (Newer DAK machines do not seem to have this pin arrangement, but I imagine that the paddle is the same.) If anyone has an extra paddle or pan or pin, please let me know. I would especially like to hear from you if you live in the Boston area warren.clark@east.sun.com (Home) 617-894-4156 (Office) 508-442-0329 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 Mar 93 8:29:52 CST From: mswigint@msw104i.b24b.ingr.com (Margaret Wiginton) Subject: Flour Storage Discovery Message-ID: <199303081429.AA01880@msw104i.b24b.ingr.com> Hi folks, This may be obvious to the rest of you, but it took me a while to figure this out ... Years ago, I read that, to ensure maximum freshness, you should store flour in the freezer. I've been doing so ever since, and when I got a breadmachine last Christmas and started buying many different types of flours, I stored them all in the freezer, too. (Of course, flour doesn't freeze into a block or anything; its stays dry and powdery.) Well, the other day, it dawned on me that adding this VERY cold flour to my breadmachine might be inhibiting the rising. So, I took all my flour out of the freezer and let it reach room temperature. Since then, I've made about four loaves -- each one rose so much that it stuck to the lid of the breadmachine, and the texture was *incredibly* light and fluffy! So ... no more flour freezer storage for me. As my young niece would say, "Duh!" ________________________ Margaret mswigint@msw104i.b24b.ingr.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Mar 93 9:37:31 EST From: kla@karen.webo.dg.com (Karen Plaskon) Subject: Pizza Dough Success Message-ID: <9303041437.AA03894@karen.webo.dg.com> Regarding Donna German's books, Clay Jackson said: > I also feel uncomfortable about that. As a general comment, I've found > her books (got all three) give VERY spotty results with my DAK machine. > Most of the receipes have required additional liquid, and some (like > the Pizza Dough one) I've tried repeatedly and never got right. Has > anyone else had a similar experience? I often make the sourdough pizza dough recipe from her first book and have wonderful results. I have a small Welbilt machine and I use the Medium size recipes. I've found that only letting the dough knead for a short time (about 4 minutes) helps to keep it from becoming too sticky. I usually freeze the dough and use it sometime later. -- -- Karen ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Mar 93 13:25:01 EST From: bubba!sgs@superman.att.com Message-ID: <9303041825.AA11508@bubba> Hi Everyone! I just thought I'd share a recipe with you. Its just something I came up with while tweaking the DAK egg bread recipe (I think this compulsion to tweak recipes may be inherited!) I've been using it for sandwich bread this week. I call it Wheat-Egg Bread -------------------- 1 pkg. yeast 2 c. bread flour 1 c. whole wheat flour 4 Tbsp. sugar 1 1/4 tsp. salt 1 egg 3 Tbsp. oil 1 c. warm water Enjoy! Sarah Schwartz sgs@bubba.att.com ------------------------------ End of Bread Digest V4 #10 ****************************** Bread Digest Fri, 19 Mar 1993 Volume 4 : Issue 11 Today's Topics: Bread Machine Yeast Eaten Paddles Flour Storage Discovery King Arthur Address Request Potato bread? Sanyo dough hook ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1993 14:03:06 PST From: wegeng.henr801c@xerox.com Subject: Bread Machine Yeast Message-ID: <"16-Mar-93 17:02:55".*.Donald_L._Wegeng.Henr801C@Xerox.com> I`m new to the Bread Digest, so my apologies if this has been discussed before. I`ve got an R2D2 machine, and have been experimenting with using yeast cakes instead of dried yeast. So far I`ve been very sucessful using one stardard size cake per loaf, disolving the yeast in warm water and adding the yeast/water mixture with the other liquids. I would be interested in hearing the results from anyone else who has tried yeast cakes. Btw, I started experimenting after being unhappy with the strong yeast flavor that I was getting from dried yeast (both Fleishman`s and Red Star). I noticed that store-bought bread doesn`t have such a strong flavor, so it made sense to try to use the same yeast as commercial bakerys. Many (though not all) large supermarkets carry yeast cakes (both Fleischman`s and Red Star). /Don wegeng.henr801c@xerox.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1993 09:41:27 EST From: Jim Carey Subject: Eaten Paddles Message-ID: <00969967.A17CF2C0.984@cykick.infores.com> My wife also ground up our paddle. She ended up ordering a new one through DAK, although I don't know how long it took to get through. Jim Carey jcarey@cykick.infores.com or jim.carey@infores.com Information Resources, Inc. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1993 14:23:03 PST From: wegeng.henr801c@xerox.com Subject: Re: Flour Storage Discovery Message-ID: <"16-Mar-93 17:22:48".*.Donald_L._Wegeng.Henr801C@Xerox.com> >So ... no more flour freezer storage for me. Some types of whole grain flour will begin to turn rancid if stored at room temperature for a long period of time (one source I read said that the shelf life of these flours was about one month). Whole wheat and rye flours are often cited examples. White flours, such as bread flour, apparently do not suffer from this problem because they lack the oily portions of the grain. I store all of my *grain* flour in the fridge, except for a small container that I store at room temperature. When I bake I use the room temperature flour, replacing it from the supply in the fridge. Since I bake about once a week I don`t worry about the flour turning rancid. I`ve read that some bread machines have a pre-heat cycle that makes room temperature storage unnecessary, though mine (an R2D2) doesn`t do this. I also try to purchase flour from a source that has a quick turnover, so that (hopefully) I`m always getting reasonably fresh product. Does all this make a difference? I *think* so, but since I`m usually changing several variables at once I`m not positive. /Don wegeng.henr801c@xerox.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Mar 93 8:42:16 EST From: kla@karen.webo.dg.com (Karen Plaskon) Subject: King Arthur Address Request Message-ID: <9303151342.AA01232@karen.webo.dg.com> Hi. A few months ago I was receiving a catalog from King Arthur's Flour company. They supply many kinds of flours, bulk yeast, and baking supplies. I haven't received a catalog in awhile, and I can't find the address. Does anyone have the address or a phone number I can call to get back on their mailing list? Thanx. -- -- Karen ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Karen L. Plaskon | karen_plaskon@dg.com Data General Corp. | Network Systems Development Division | Open Network Systems Development | ----------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Mar 93 14:33:02 CST From: "Rich Winkel" Subject: Potato bread? Does anyone have a recipie for this? Rich ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1993 13:37:36 -0400 From: jamie@mkseast.uucp (Jamie Haviland) Subject: Sanyo dough hook Message-ID: In a recent article, somebody mentioned a loose pin on their pan. I have a Sanyo machine, which I have had for only a few months. Within the first 30 days or so, the little rubber "O"-ring gasket on the dough hook broke. The would not replace just the dough hook, but wanted to replace the entire machine.... only they didn't have any of them anymore, and didn't know when they would get any more. Contacting Sanyo, I was informed that they couldn't the gasket, but could replace the whole dough hook, at what I considered an excessive price. I went to a local automotive parts dealer and purchase some gasket material (for use against the hot engine block) and cut out a new gasket. It is not perfect, but it does hold the dough hook firmly and doesn't leak. If anybody has a better suggestion, please let me know. Thanks Jamie Haviland (jamie@mkseast.uucp) (902)455-1857 ------------------------------ End of Bread Digest V4 #11 ****************************** Bread Digest Fri, 26 Mar 1993 Volume 4 : Issue 12 Today's Topics: BREAD Digest V4 #10 King Arthur address/phone ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 19 Mar 93 21:40:56 EST From: fritz@ben.dev.upenn.edu (Katherine Fritz) Subject: Re: BREAD Digest V4 #10 Message-ID: <9303200240.AA26438@ben.dev.upenn.edu> > From: Warren.Clark@East.Sun.COM (Warren Clark - Online Publishing) > If anyone has an extra paddle or pan or pin, please let me know. > I would especially like to hear from you if you live in the If you don't have any luck with DAK or someone on the mailing list, you might try calling Welbilt. The number I have for them is below. > From: kat@genisco.gtc.com (Kathryn Fielding) > > I joined the Red Star/Welbilt Bread club, or whatever they call it, and > > got 60-some recipes from them in a nice recipe box. > > What is this, and how do you join? The Welbilt/Red Star Recipe Club is something I found out about on a flyer that came packed with my Welbilt ABM-100 (R2D2 model) bread machine when I bought it two years ago. Here's the info on the recipe club: [[ As previously noted -- this offer has not been available since 1995 -- Reggie, 1996 ]] Naturally I didn't get around to joining until late last fall -- so I got the whole shebang at one shot. Then before Christmas, they sent me a fold-up card with bread-making tips, that fit in my club recipe box, plus some recipes to try for the holidays. I assume you can still join; there's no expiration date on the flyer. I have included one of the recipes they sent me at Christmas time. There were five of them, but my wrists are getting tired from all this typing. 'fraid you'll have to wait for future installments for the rest. The recipes come from the Bread Machine Magic book (by Linda Rehberg & Lois Conway, St. Martin's Press, 1992), and were used in an article that Universal Foods Corporation (the makers of Red Star Yeast) sent to newspaper food editors across the country. As the cover letter explains, "The recipes are so outstanding we wanted to be sure that you have your own copy of them." It's interesting that the recipes specify using Red Star yeast. I have Bread Machine Magic and Rehberg & Conway make a point of saying that they preferred Red Star yeast to others. I suppose that's why Universal Foods picked up on the recipes and mailed them to newspaper food editors. SWEET LELANI BREAD 1-1/2 Lb. Loaf 1 Lb. Loaf ------------------ ---------------- 1/4 cup 3 Tbsp. buttermilk (Welbilt/DAK (Welbilt/DAK machine add 2 Tbsp more) add 1 Tbsp more) 1/4 cup 2 Tbsp. reserved pineapple juice 3 Tbsp. 2 Tbsp. butter or margarine 1 (about 1/4 cup) 1 (about 1/4 cup) egg 1/2 cup 1/3 cup canned pineapple chunks, cut up and well drained (reserve juice as above) 1/2 cup 1/3 cup sliced banana 3 cups 2 cups bread flour 1/4 cup 3 Tbsp. whole wheat flour 1/2 cup 1/3 cup shredded coconut 1-1/2 Tbsp. 1 Tbsp. sugar 1 tsp. 1 tsp. salt 1/4 tsp. 1/4 tsp. baking soda 1/3 cup 1/4 cup chopped macadamia nuts 1-1/2 tsp. 1-1/2 tsp. Red Star Active Dry Yeast (Panasonic/ National machines use 3 tsp.) (Welbilt/DAK machines use 2 tsp.) Place all ingredients in bread pan, select "Light Crust" setting, and press START. After the baking cycle ends, remove bread from pan, place on cake rack and allow to cool 1 hour before slicing. -------- Katie Fritz Internet: fritz@ben.dev.upenn.edu CIS: 71257,3153 ------------------------------ Date: 22 Mar 1993 8:39 EST From: a.m.osborne Subject: King Arthur address/phone The King Arthur flour people: have a catalog called The King Arthur Flour Baker's Catalogue that has all kinds of flours (and baking equipment)! Their address is: The Baker's catalogue, RR2 Box 56, Norwich, VT 05055. Their phone number is 1-800-827-6836 (you could probably call for a catalog too). Here's a list of the flours they carry: unbleached all-purpose stone ground whole wheat flour soft winter wheat whole wheat pastry flour 8-grain flour 10-grain flour Cornell mix Ezekiel mix barley flakes thick oat flakes steel-cut (cracked) oats rye flakes triticale flakes wheat flakes wheat berries (kernels) cracked wheat corn germ millet (whole) amaranth brown rice barley white buckwheat cornmeal vital wheat gluten oat pumpernickel white rye semolina soy teff triticale They carry herbs, spices, dried fruits, different sugars, sourdough starters (I just bought their Friendship starter), books, oils, flavorings, pasta, etc. My catalog is getting worn cuz I look through it so much! They are really pleasant over the phone and pack your order VERY well. I highly recommend them! Arlene Osborne ------------------------------ End of Bread Digest V4 #12 ****************************** Bread Digest Sat, 3 Apr 1993 Volume 4 : Issue 13 Today's Topics: Bread & Beer yeasts ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 29 Mar 93 09:12:44 CST From: hinz@memphis.med.ge.com (David Hinz) Subject: Bread & Beer yeasts Message-ID: <9303291512.AA06858@memphis.wmo> Greetings... I've got a DAK R2-D2 model, and get fairly decent results from it. I was wondering, however, about yeasts. One of my hobbies is homebrewing beer, and I've learned a lot about yeasts from my reading on that topic. A couple of questions and observations: >Why not rehydrate the yeast before adding it to the machine? For beer or ale, the technique is to boil a cup of water, cool it to 105 degrees (f), and mix the yeast into the water, cover it, let it sit until it starts, well, yeasting. At that point, you add it to the wort (unfermented beer). How would this work for breadmaking, and reason NOT to? (Oh, I don't know if boiling is necessary, for beer it is because it ferments for weeks or months and you want to kill off nasties. Bread only hangs around for two days anyway!) >Back to the R2-D2 machine, it's not been doing too well in the winter, but if I warm all the ingredients up to room temperature it seems to work a bit better. However, if I put the machine in the time delay mode, the relay clicks & the heating element comes off & on, is it preheating for me or not? If I could bypass the room temperature bit and just have the machine do it by delaying my loaf for an hour or whatever, that'd be easier. So, what's it doing? >I had some ale yeast sitting around that I wouldn't get to use before it went old, so, being in a whimsical state, I threw it in for a loaf of raisin- honey bread. It has a bit of a beer-ey flavor, and rose quite nicely and definately added something to the bread. If you have a homebrew store near you, give this variation a try. If you come up with anything special, let us know! There are ale & lager yeasts in homebrewing, the lager yeast works at even lower temperatures. Would that work for baking in the winter, or when the ingredients are colder? I dunno, I may try it. Dave Hinz ------------------------------ End of Bread Digest V4 #13 ****************************** Bread Digest Sat, 10 Apr 1993 Volume 4 : Issue 14 Today's Topics: Bread Flour Cajun Sourdough French Bread! DAK repairs Flavor of Bread Machine bread ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1993 10:54:51 -0600 (MDT) From: "Steven A. Hocevar" Subject: Bread Flour Message-ID: <930405105451.1c0@stimpy.hsc.ucalgary.ca> In the grocery stores we have up here in Canada, the only "Bread Flour" I can find is a mixture of white and whole wheat flour. The package doesn't mention it has a higher gluten content then the all purpose flour. I was wondering if ALL "Bread Flour" was a mixture of white and whole wheat flours or are there some bread flours out there that are all white with added gluten. -Steve ------------------------------ Date: 5 Apr 1993 8:51 EDT From: a.m.osborne Subject: Cajun Sourdough French Bread! Just thought I'd mention to the bread group that I made a fantastic bread recipe yesterday in my machine! It wasn't a machine-specific recipe but I set it on French Bread, manual cycle and shaped the loaf for my French bread pan. The recipe was from the King Arthur Company's 1991 Winterbake contest (3rd prize, sourdough category) and was for Cajun Sourdough French Bread. Let me tell you, with the addition of the Cajun spices (onion powder, garlic powder, Hungarian sweet paprika (!), whole/crushed black peppercorns, cayenne pepper, etc.) it was HOT! The spices overwhelmed the bread so that the sourdough couldn't be tasted, but I liked it! I halved the recipe but kept the yeast the same. My only negative comment was that it was a bit too dry, and I think the next time I make it, I'll add about a Tablespoon of oil to it. (The color of the loaf was a light rust color and the smell was pure Cajun!) For anyone interested in buying a really good booklet of prize-winning recipes, contact the King Arthur Company. They are still selling the 1991 Winterbake book and now have a 1993 one as well. Arlene Osborne ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 5 Apr 93 9:12:25 EDT From: jane@apollo.hp.com Subject: DAK repairs Hi folks, Our DAK bread machine has not worked since we moved cross country, and the people paid to move us are finally getting around to making amends. The movers propose that they pay for an estimate to fix the machine, and if the problem with the machine appears to be move related, they will also pay the repair. But if the problem is a run of the mill problem that can't be directly seen as related to our move, then we would have to pay the repairs. So, my question is: (in the case that we have to pay for repairs) has anybody had good luck getting a DAK machine repaired? Or is this probably a losing proposition? Before we moved, we generally had few complaints with the machine, which we had owned for 3 years. The only problem it seemed to have was the the crust of a sweet-type bread would come out too dark. Thanks in advance, Jane Marcus jane@apollo.hp.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Apr 93 16:11:24 CDT From: Debra Bettis Subject: Flavor of Bread Machine bread Message-ID: <9304082111.AA25703@sweetpea.jsc.nasa.gov> My husband and I would like to buy a bread machine. My only concern is with the flavor. I have a friend who makes bread several times a week and SHARES! I have noticed that the flavor of the bread is good but that it seems to lack the "yeast" flavor of homemade breads. I have tried several different breads and while better than store bought - they seem to be missing "a little" flavor. You can post responses to the group or reach me via email. Thank You! Debra bettis@sweetpea.jsc.nasa.gov ------------------------------ End of Bread Digest V4 #14 ****************************** Bread Digest Mon, 19 Apr 1993 Volume 4 : Issue 15 Today's Topics: BREAD Digest V4 #14 Bread too dry Canadian versus U.S. flours (Bread digest V4, #14) Fixing a Welbilt/DAK Machine ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1993 09:30:30 -0500 From: Dave Saunders Subject: Re: BREAD Digest V4 #14 Message-ID: <9304120930.AA30461@dave.intercon.com> How should yeast be stored? I had been keeping it in the fridge but after letting it warm a bit, I found that my bread didn't fall as it had been... Dave ----------------------------------| Dave Saunders | Now the world has gone to bed, InterCon Systems Corporation | Darkness won't engulf my head, "Standards-based networking for a | I can see by infra-red, standards-based world." | How I hate the night. -- Marvin ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Apr 93 08:12:13 EDT From: Warren.Clark@East.Sun.COM (Warren Clark - Online Publishing) Subject: Bread too dry Message-ID: <9304121212.AA01632@chirp.East.Sun.COM> In today's BREAD digest, arlene.osborne reports a good tasting cajun bread which "came out too dry." Arlene says she plans to try adding a bit more oil to it next time. That might work, but I have found that bread cooked in smaller pans (i.e. french bread pans) tends to be dry if cooked for the full recommended time. I find that if I chop a couple minutes off the cooking time, I get the moist bread which I love. Also, I think that with "french bread" cooked in a regular oven, you are supposed to have a pan of boiling water in the oven with the bread. That too could affect the dryness. Warren Clark ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Apr 93 19:00:00 PDT From: close@lunch.wpd.sgi.com (Diane Barlow Close) Subject: Canadian versus U.S. flours (Bread digest V4, #14) Message-ID: <9304140200.AA16481@lunch.wpd.sgi.com> Steve writes: > In the grocery stores we have up here in Canada, the only "Bread Flour" I can > find is a mixture of white and whole wheat flour. The package doesn't mention The reason for this is that Canadian all purpose flour *is* the equivalent of American bread flour. For some reason (and I don't know what it is), Americans use all purpose flour with most of the gluten removed, whereas Canadian flour (like Robin Hood brand, etc.) leave the gluten content much higher -- high enough to easily make bread. When I moved to the U.S. I tried to make bread with all purpose flour, just like I had been doing in Canada, but it turned out awful. That's when I saw bags of "bread flour" (teeny things at too-high prices, imho) being sold in U.S. supermarkets. I asked baker friends (professionals) in both places and was told what I have related above. I later read this same explanation in an American cooking magazine. -- Diane Barlow Close close@lunch.wpd.sgi.com I'm at lunch today. :-) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Apr 93 09:48:00 CDT From: longo!longo@attdrs.att.com Subject: Fixing a Welbilt/DAK Machine Message-ID: <9304121448.AA01078@longo.federation> Breadsters, The following information about machine repair was provided by Bruce M. Binder (bruceb@locus.com) a while back, he sent his machine in for service and it took about 3 weeks. When he did receiveit back, it didn't seem like it was repaired to his satisfaction: Welbilt Appliance, Inc. Parts and Service Department 25 Rose Place Garden City, New York 11040 (201) 866-1594 Hope this helps, Mike Longo longo@attdrs.att.com ------------------------------ End of Bread Digest V4 #15 ****************************** Bread Digest Tue, 11 May 1993 Volume 4 : Issue 16 Today's Topics: Storing yeast What went wrong? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 04 May 1993 09:38:41 EDT From: Jim Carey Subject: Storing yeast Message-ID: <0096BFE8.5CE7A040.9518@cykick.infores.com> Dave Saunders wrote: >How should yeast be stored? I had been keeping it in the fridge but >after letting it warm a bit, I found that my bread didn't fall as it >had been... I've always kept mine in the fridge. Most of my bread is made on timer, having sit for about 4 hours (load it at 11 PM, mixing starts around 3 AM; it's great to wake up to the smell of fresh bread :-). I find falling happens more in the winter, and depends on the recipe. -- Jim Carey jcarey@cykick.infores.com or jim.carey@infores.com Information Resources, Inc. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 May 1993 10:34:12 -0600 (MDT) From: "Steven A. Hocevar" Subject: What went wrong? Message-ID: <930510103412.399@stimpy.hsc.ucalgary.ca> I just purchase "Bread Machine Magic" and tried the receipe for "Jallepeno Cheese Bread". It was a failure. A big lump of dense something. It called for 1/2 cup sourcream and 1/8 cup water and 1 egg. Thats all for the liquid. I would expect more. It also mentioned to put the jallepenos and the cheese in with all the over ingrediencs. I have a Regal with a rasin bread setting so that stuff like jalledpenoes and cheese can be added into the batter 10 minutes before the end of the kneeding cycle so they don't get chewed up too much. Why didn't the receipe say to add these ingredience then? I guess what I'm asking is....does anyone have this book and what are your experiences with the receipes in it? -Steve ------------------------------ End of Bread Digest V4 #16 ****************************** Bread Digest Tue, 18 May 1993 Volume 4 : Issue 17 Today's Topics: Bad Jalapeno Bread Bread Machine Magic (2 msgs) Bread Machine Magic cookbook (was: What went wrong?) In search of: the perfect toaster!? Sourdough Starter Yeast and Bread Machine Magic ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 13 May 93 08:32:04 CDT From: longo!longo@attdrs.att.com Subject: Bad Jalapeno Bread Message-ID: <9305131332.AA01062@longo.federation> > I just purchase "Bread Machine Magic" and tried the receipe for "Jallepeno >Cheese Bread". It was a failure. A big lump of dense something. >It called for 1/2 cup sourcream and 1/8 cup water and 1 egg. Thats all for the >liquid. I would expect more. It also mentioned to put the jallepenos and the >cheese in with all the over ingrediencs. I have a Regal with a rasin bread >setting so that stuff like jalledpenoes and cheese can be added into the batter >10 minutes before the end of the kneeding cycle so they don't get chewed up too >much. Why didn't the receipe say to add these ingredience then? >I guess what I'm asking is....does anyone have this book and what are your >experiences with the receipes in it? >-Steve Steve, I can't give you too much advice about your big lump of hard, hot stuff except to say that every time I've tried esoteric recipes involving little water I had at least one failure in the beginning. (I remember an absolutely *awful* experience with a lemon poppyseed bread recipe that I got on the net.) The success that I had were basically due to two things 1.) Very fresh and an adequate amount of yeast and 2.) careful measurement of ingredients and settings on the breadmaker. If you haven't used the breadmaker often (yet) try sticking to more simple and, admittedly bland, recipes like white and whole wheat. Once you've mastered these the Jalapeno Bread will probably turn out much better... Mike Longo Bread Fan, Welbilt Man ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 May 93 12:38:01 PDT From: obrien@netcom.com (No parking EXCEPT FOR BOB) Subject: Re: Bread Machine Magic Message-ID: <9305121938.AA18631@netcom.netcom.com> > Subject: Storing yeast I keep mine in the fridge, but spoon it out into the pan as the very first step. It seems to be able to warm up adequately this way. > Subject: What went wrong? > > I just purchase "Bread Machine Magic" and tried the receipe for "Jallepeno > Cheese Bread". It was a failure. A big lump of dense something. > I guess what I'm asking is....does anyone have this book and what are your > experiences with the receipes in it? I haven't tried that one, but "Linda's Easy Potato Bread" has become a favorite of mine. I have a DAK "R2D2" BTW. I don't keep fresh milk around, so I've worked out a substitution. For the milk and water (3/4 cup milk, 3/8 cup water + 3Tbsp if DAK/Welbuilt) I substitute 1-1/4 c water and 2Tbsp milk powder. Does anyone know if milk powders are all the same strength? Is there a guideline, or is working it out as I did from the ratios always a good idea? As for the book, I also like all the Pumpernickels and "Briscoe's Irish Brown Bread" I may try the sourdough starter just out of curiosity. Has anyone had success making sourdough in a machine? I'd *really* like to do that. My biggest complaint so far about the book is the repeated use of 3/8 cup measures. I know how to fake it, but does *anyone* really have one calibrated like that? Bob O'Bob -- ------------------------------ Date: 12 May 1993 14:24 EDT From: a.m.osborne Subject: Bread Machine Magic In answer to Steve A. Hocevar: I guess what I'm asking is....does anyone have this book (Bread Machine Magic) and what are your experiences with the receipes in it? Yes, Steve, I have this book. I collect cookbooks (have 1700+) and have probably 10 on bread machines alone. Bread Machine Magic is my FAVORITE bread machine book. I have never had a failure with any recipe I've tried from it (but haven't tried the Jalapeno/Cheese bread). The San Francisco Sourdough French bread is my husband's favorite. I make it on the manual setting and use a French bread pan, spray the loaf, and keep a pan of boiling water in the oven during baking. The loaves are wonderful! Sorry to hear you're having trouble. I wonder if it is because you are trying the recipes in a different brand machine? I forget what kinds the authors used in their tests...mine is a Welbilt (R2D2 model). Arlene Osborne ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 May 93 09:23:16 EDT From: dsr@philabs.Philips.Com (Deborah Rech) Subject: Bread Machine Magic cookbook (was: What went wrong?) Message-ID: <9305121323.AA20454@philabs.Philips.Com> After hearing much praise for this cookbook, I special ordered it from Barnes & Noble a couple of months ago. I have generally had very good success with the recipes from it in my Hitachi machine. However, the last recipe I tried with buttermilk, an egg, and a combination of whole wheat and bread flour did not rise fast enough. It was too dense for my tastes. The next time I made it I used the machine through the first rise and then dumped it in a loaf pan to cook in the oven. I do this from time to time anyway since my 8-year-old prefers a conventional- shaped loaf for school sandwiches . 8^) BTW, the buttermilk bread was fine when allowed to rise a little longer. As to failure of the Jalapeno Cheese Bread from Bread Machine Magic, I also think it sounds like there wasn't enough liquid if the recipes called for 3 cups of flour. I find that I always need 1 1/8 cups liquid. Any more and the loaf sags when it cooks; any less and the loaf doesn't mix well. Debby ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 May 93 9:57:06 PDT From: close@lunch.wpd.sgi.com (Diane Barlow Close) Subject: In search of: the perfect toaster!? Message-ID: <9305181657.AA20806@lunch.wpd.sgi.com> I have an older Hitachi bread making machine, one that can produce 1 1/2 lb sized loaves, and I've yet to find a toaster that will fit the whole bread slice (both vertically and horizontally). Most toasters are too short for slices of this bread. I've tried toaster ovens, but they tend to dry the bread out more than toasters. Has anyone found a tall toaster that fits bread machine slices perfectly? (I sure hate white ends on my toast.) Has anyone come up with an alternative solution? (Besides cutting the slices in half?) -- Diane Barlow Close close@lunch.wpd.sgi.com I'm at lunch today. :-) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 May 93 17:30:23 PDT From: Renee@cup.portal.com Subject: Sourdough Starter Message-ID: <9305141730.1.9183@cup.portal.com> I would like to find a good SOUR sourdough starter, like Columbo extra sour bread. Anyone know how to make/buy starter? Renee Roberts Renee@cup.portal.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 May 93 9:33:47 EDT From: fritz@ben.dev.upenn.edu (Katherine Fritz) Subject: Yeast and Bread Machine Magic Message-ID: <9305121333.AA10503@ben.dev.upenn.edu> Regarding yeast storage -- I purchased a 2-pound bulk package of Red Star yeast this past winter, and the package clearly states that it should be refrigerated in a tightly closed container after opening. My understanding has always been that yeast keeps longer if refrigerated. This is NOT to say that yeast will perform better if cold, just that it will keep longer. I try to let my yeast warm up a little before starting a cycle, 5 minutes or so. I haven't had any problems with handling the bulk yeast this way. > I just purchase "Bread Machine Magic" and tried the receipe for "Jallepeno > Cheese Bread". It was a failure. A big lump of dense something. > > It called for 1/2 cup sourcream and 1/8 cup water and 1 egg. Thats all for the > liquid. I would expect more. It also mentioned to put the jallepenos and the > cheese in with all the over ingrediencs. I have a Regal with a rasin bread > setting so that stuff like jalledpenoes and cheese can be added into the batter > 10 minutes before the end of the kneeding cycle so they don't get chewed up too > much. Why didn't the receipe say to add these ingredience then? I'd say *when* you add the jalapenos is more a matter of personal preference -- if you don't want them ground up so much, add them near the end of the kneading cycle. Personally, I would think in a recipe of this type, it would be better to have these ingredients more evenly distributed, but that's just my opinion. > I guess what I'm asking is....does anyone have this book and what are your > experiences with the receipes in it? I have "Bread Machine Magic" and have never had a failure from any recipe I've tried. I don't remember this particular one, though -- I'll try to take a look at it. A question for our moderator -- Jim, I have a friend on CompuServe who has for some reason been unable to get a subscription message through to you. Could I give you her address to add her? Also, about how many subscribers are there on this list? Katie --------------------- Internet: fritz@ben.dev.upenn.edu CIS: 71257,3153 ------------------------------ End of Bread Digest V4 #17 ****************************** Bread Digest Thu, 20 May 1993 Volume 4 : Issue 18 Today's Topics: 3/8 cup measures and the perfect toaster BREAD Digest V4 #17 Bread Machine Magic (2 msgs) Sourdough Toasters for bread machine slices Toasting ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 19 May 93 22:31 EDT From: popcorn@cyberspace.org (Valerie Mates) Subject: 3/8 cup measures and the perfect toaster Message-ID: > My biggest complaint so far about the book is the repeated use > of 3/8 cup measures. I know how to fake it, but does *anyone* > really have one calibrated like that? > I've got a 1/8 cup measuring cup, but mostly it lives in the washing machine for use in laundry detergent. :) > Has anyone found a tall toaster that fits bread machine slices > perfectly? (I sure hate white ends on my toast.) Has anyone come up > with an alternative solution? (Besides cutting the slices in half?) > With some toasters you can rotate the toast while it is toasting by using your fingers to turn the part of the toast that sticks out. Other toasters get too hot for this. Of course, the middle of the slice gets toastier than the parts that have spent time outside the toaster, but at least everything gets somewhat toasted this way. Another way to do this is to set the toaster for fairly light toast, wait 'til it pops, and then put the toast in upside down for another go-round. -Valerie Mates popcorn@grex.cyberspace.org ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 May 93 09:58:02 EDT From: Warren.Clark@East.Sun.COM (Warren Clark - Online Publishing) Subject: Re: BREAD Digest V4 #17 Message-ID: <9305191358.AA07734@chirp.East.Sun.COM> Renee - I bought some sourdough starter at the San Francisco airport about a year ago. I have had a LOT of fun with it and the best bread I have made is from this starter. I don't use the bread machine though. I usually make it completely by hand on a Saturday. The first rising is supposed to take about 4-6 hours. If I am in a hurry, I put it on the radiator (during winter) or at 100 deg in my convection microwave oven (convection only). Normally, I just mix it up before I go to bed on a Friday night and let it sit on the counter until I wake up in the morning. Then I mix in the rest of the flour and put it into "Pam'd" pans. I then let it rise to three times its original size. This second rising is supposed to take about 2-3 hours, but I usually let it go 4-8 Finally, I bake it at 450 for 16 - 20 minutes depending on the size of the pans I use. I like it to be just golden brown on the top. But you say you want the bread to be VERY sour. I made some like that once accidently, but I THINK I know what I did wrong (or right depending on how you look at it.) I had not been tending to my starter very well - I think I had let it sit for 2 months in the refrig without doing the "pour off a cup and then add a cup of flour/water" routine, so I was afraid that the starter might be severely weakened. But, I figured that since bacteria are pretty tough to kill completely by not feeding them, some of them would still be alive. Note that by this time, the starter had gotten pretty - shall we say "rude" - it definitely smelled like starter. So - even though the starter smelled strong, I figured that that the bacteria were weak, so I used two or three times what the recipe called for. Then, again because I figured that the bacteria were weak, I let the first rising go ALL DAY on my spot near the radiator that stays at about 100 deg. The resulting bread was REALLY sour. I loved it. My wife hated it. Bottom line is that the sourness is probably more a factor of how long you let the bacteria work rather than the bacteria you use. Also, the recipe which comes with the starter calls for 2 cups of water, one cup of starter, 2 tsp ea salt & sugar, and eventually 7.5 - 8 cups of flour. I think that makes the dough TOO stiff. I just make sure it is good and stiff without worring about forcing in all the flour. By the way, you might get the impression from this that I am not the most fastidious guy when it comes to following recipes. My basic bread recipe goes something like this: Throw two or three cups of flour and a teaspoon or two of yeast into the machine. Add sweetener - honey or sugar. Put in some wet stuff - fruit juice - a pureed zucchini - a banana - water - whatever. Butter or oil turns out to be optional. Then throw in a cup of oatmeal or some wheat germ or something depending on your mood. Run the machine for a minute and look at the glop. If it is too dry, add water and if it is too wet add flour. The point of all these recipes is getting the dough to the right consistency and that is more important than what the recipe calls for. The rest of the stuff does not seem to matter. I have the same approach to sourdough bread. If the bread is supposed to rise for 4 hours, and I am going to be out, I let it rise for 8 hours. The little yeasts and bacterias don't seem to care much. Warren Clark ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 May 1993 8:51:20 -0600 (MDT) From: "Steven A. Hocevar" Subject: Bread Machine Magic Message-ID: <930519085120.736@stimpy.hsc.ucalgary.ca> >From: obrien@netcom.com (No parking EXCEPT FOR BOB) >I haven't tried that one, but "Linda's Easy Potato Bread" has become >a favorite of mine. >Bob O'Bob I tried the Cinnamon Rolls this weekend. They were so good, I made another batch right away. You gotta try them....... >From: a.m.osborne >Bread Machine Magic is my FAVORITE bread machine book. I have never had a >failure with any recipe I've tried from it (but haven't tried the >Jalapeno/Cheese bread). The San Francisco Sourdough French bread is my >husband's favorite. I make it on the manual setting and use a French bread >pan, spray the loaf, and keep a pan of boiling water in the oven >during baking. The loaves are wonderful! I started a starter on sunday. Its seems to be coming along nicely. I'll try your method when I'm ready to make my first loaf. >Sorry to hear you're having trouble. I wonder if it is because >you are trying the recipes in a different brand machine? I forget >what kinds the authors used in their tests...mine is a Welbilt >(R2D2 model). >Arlene Osborne I have a Regal. I don't think it was because of the type of machine. I was thinking that it could be the sour cream we get up here in Canada. Maybe its not as moist as the cream available in the States. Anyway, the next time I try a receipe with sour cream in it, I'll watch it closely and add extra water when/if needed. >From: dsr@philabs.Philips.Com (Deborah Rech) >As to failure of the Jalapeno Cheese Bread from Bread Machine Magic, I also >think it sounds like there wasn't enough liquid if the recipes called for >3 cups of flour. I find that I always need 1 1/8 cups liquid. Any more >and the loaf sags when it cooks; any less and the loaf doesn't mix well. >Debby I guess the lesson I learned was that water is a variable and when ever I try a new receipe, I should watch the kneading to make sure the dough is moist enough. >From: Renee@cup.portal.com >I would like to find a good SOUR sourdough starter, like Columbo >extra sour bread. Anyone know how to make/buy starter? >Renee Roberts I'll send you the receipe for the starter given in the Bread Machine Magic if you don't already have one/it. Thanks, everyone, for your responses. Bread Machine Magic looks like a wonderful book and of the receipes I've tried (Cinnamon Rolls, Chili Burgers and Jalapeno Bread) only the Jalapeno Bread failed (I should have watched it more closely). The Chili Burgers seems to be very practicle for the busy ninty's family. Give them a try. -Steve ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 May 1993 08:24:46 PDT From: wegeng.henr801c@xerox.com Subject: Re: Bread Machine Magic Message-ID: <"19-May-93 11:24:39".*.Donald_L._Wegeng.Henr801C@Xerox.com> I also have a copy of Bread Machine Magic, and overall I have been very pleased with the recipes for the Welbilt R2D2 machines. I have had some problems, though. Some of my early attempts with this book either did not rise well, or did not seem to knead very well. I`ve concluded that my problems were related to my not being careful about measuring ingredients, and to the fact that in the winter my house is kept at about 64 degrees F with fairly low relative humidity. Now that the weather is warming up I`m having much better success. /Don wegeng.henr801c@xerox.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 May 1993 03:35:35 -0400 (EDT) From: "J. J. Larrea" Subject: Re: Sourdough Message-ID: <199305190735.AA17373@sun.Panix.Com> Renee Roberts (Renee@cup.portal.com) asks: > I would like to find a good SOUR sourdough starter, like Columbo > extra sour bread. Anyone know how to make/buy starter? In "The Best Bread Machine Cookbook Ever", Madge Rosenberg says: This is an ingredient to keep on hand so you can make sourdough bread anytime: Mix 1 cup of flour with 1 cup of water and a pinch of yeast. Stir until creamy. Leave the mixture alone for a week in a large glass or plastic container, unrefrigerated. It is a living culture that bubbles and smells weird [sure does! -JJ]. The different strains of yeast in the atmosphere work on it. Sours made from the same ingredients vary from place to place because of the ambient conditions. No one has made San Francisco sourdough in the Midwest yet, although commercial bakeries have tried. At least once a week, use your starter or discard 1/2 cup of it, and be sure to replenish it with equal amounts of flour and water stirred together until they are smooth and creamy. This keeps the starter fresh and active. After the initial week, you can store the starter in the refrigerator, but bring it up to room temperature for baking by making the water in the recipe just warmer than body temperature and mixing the two together before they go in the bread machine. A very large number of the recipes in this book use sourdough, but I have not yet made any of them. So I'll post a non-sourdough recipe which I made and found excellent: Soutine's Rosemary Wheat Bread (Soutine's is Madge's bakery) Ingredient Small (1 lb) Loaf Large (1 1/2 lb) Loaf active dry yeast 1 1/2 tsp 2 1/2 tsp bread flour 1/2 cup 3/4 cup whole wheat flour 1 3/4 cup 2 2/3 cup wheat bran 2 tbsp 3 tbsp dried rosemary 2 tsp 1 tbsp salt 1 tsp 1 1/2 tsp vegetable oil 3 tbsp 1/4 cup honey 3 tbsp 1/4 cup water 3/4 cup 1 cup + 2 tbsp Enjoy! - JJ Larrea (jjl@panix.com) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 May 93 21:15:23 -0600 From: Lisa Stroyan Subject: Toasters for bread machine slices Message-ID: <9305190315.AA21722@vger.sde.hp.com> Someone asked about alternative solutions to the toaster problem. This may be obvious, but what about a toaster oven? That is what we use. We gave away our toaster after installing the toaster oven, because it is so much more versatile, and normal toast is cooked just fine as well. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 May 93 14:27 CDT From: proud@ihlpe.att.com Subject: Toasting >From: close@lunch.wpd.sgi.com (Diane Barlow Close) >Subject: In search of: the perfect toaster!? > >I have an older Hitachi bread making machine, one that can produce >1 1/2 lb sized loaves, and I've yet to find a toaster that will fit >the whole bread slice (both vertically and horizontally). Most >toasters are too short for slices of this bread. I've tried toaster >ovens, but they tend to dry the bread out more than toasters. > >Has anyone found a tall toaster that fits bread machine slices >perfectly? (I sure hate white ends on my toast.) Has anyone come up >with an alternative solution? (Besides cutting the slices in half?) > >-- >Diane Barlow Close > close@lunch.wpd.sgi.com > I'm at lunch today. :-) > What I found that works with my Hitachi is to toast the bread in my toaster oven. The oven is more than large enough to toast the bread and in the long run I have just thrown out my regular toaster. Jeff Alltop proud@ihlpe.att.com ------------------------------ End of Bread Digest V4 #18 ****************************** Bread Digest Thu, 27 May 1993 Volume 4 : Issue 19 Today's Topics: Sourdough useage ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 21 May 93 08:13:49 EST From: "Lori Steinmetz" Subject: Sourdough useage Message-ID: <0096CD38530FB780.20400B69@csps.com> I picked up some sourdough starter when I was in San Francisco. With this was made a huge batch of the stuff (one gallons worth). It was then put into my food dehydrator (drier), an oven set at 100 degrees will do the same (for 12 hours or more). Once it was all dried up, I pulverized it and put it into a zip lock bag. This was then used to restart more starter (and it did work). Or, added to my bread for great flavor. Use one or two tablespoons put in with your yeast. I have found best results if you allow both the yeast and starter to sit in your liquid for 5 minutes or so. Another source for a good sour dough starter is Knots Berry Farm in Anaheim, CA. ------------------------------ End of Bread Digest V4 #19 ****************************** Bread Digest Fri, 4 Jun 1993 Volume 4 : Issue 20 Today's Topics: Sourdough Recipe from Dak Why don't 'they' do it? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 31 May 1993 07:37:10 -0400 From: mrk@vax002 (Murray Kirch) Subject: Sourdough Recipe from Dak Message-ID: <9305311137.AA03570@vax002.stockton.edu> I have been baking with Dak machines for several years. In fact, I currently own the orginal Dak Auto Bakery and the newer Turbo Baker IV. I think they are wonderful. I also bought Turbo Baker II but was not satisfied with it. I returned it and received a full refund from Dak.) Of the many bread machines books I have used, I like the 4-volume set by Donna German best (especially Volume 3). I developed my own sourdough recipes that produced very good results but switched to her recipes; they involve less work and they also produce very good sourdough bread. Here is another nice and simple sourdough recipe. It appears in a booklet sent by Dak to purchasers of the Turbo IV. I used ordinary bread flour, the "Oat/French" setting, and the regular (4 hour) cycle. The booklet states that the shorter turbo cycle also works. Sourdough Bread (from Dak for Turbo Baker IV) 1 package yeast 3 cups Better for Bread white flour 1 teaspoon salt 1 teaspoon sugar 1 cup water (very warm) 1 cup sourdough starter Add ingredients in the order listed. Select either "White" or "Oat/French" setting and turn the brown control to darkest setting. ---------------------- Murray Kirch mrk@vax002.stockton.edu ----------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 May 1993 8:26:29 -0600 (MDT) From: "Steven A. Hocevar" Subject: Why don't 'they' do it? Message-ID: <930528082629.42d@stimpy.hsc.ucalgary.ca> From: "Lori Steinmetz" >It was then put into my food dehydrator (drier), an oven set at 100 degrees >will do the same (for 12 hours or more). Once it was all dried up, I >pulverized it and put it into a zip lock bag. > >This was then used to restart more starter (and it did work). Or, added to >my bread for great flavor. Use one or two tablespoons put in with your >yeast. This sounds wonderful. Can a person buy "sour powder"? If not, how come? Is it not commercially viable? -Steve ------------------------------ End of Bread Digest V4 #20 ****************************** Bread Digest Fri, 11 Jun 1993 Volume 4 : Issue 21 Today's Topics: Dry starter Sourdough Blues Sour Powder ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 4 Jun 93 17:46:34 PDT From: obrien@netcom.com (No parking EXCEPT FOR BOB) Subject: Dry starter Message-ID: <9306050046.AA06761@netcom.netcom.com> Someone asked about buying "sour powder" or dried sourdough starter. Yes, I have bought Goldrush brand starter packets on a couple of occasions. I've obtained them from an up-market kitchen goods mall store. I also posted yesterday, to rec.food.sourdough, a fairly long description of my experience inventing a sourdough recipe for my machine. I'd send it to the list if there's interest, but it's mostly just a narrative of my first effort. I'm very interested in the factors that affect the bread, mine came out too coarse in texture and didn't rise enough, but at least it was edible, which is probably not bad for a first attempt experiment :-) Bob O'Bob -- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Jun 93 10:53:22 CDT From: longo!longo@attdrs.att.com Subject: Sourdough Blues Message-ID: <9306071553.AA00371@longo.federation> Breadsters, I've been reading, with interest, the messages about sourdough recipes and storage of dehydrated starter. My problem is I tried to make a starter from scratch using 1 cup unbleached white flour, 1 cup water and 1.5 tsp of active dry yeast. I let it sit on my counter for about 5 days to turn all yucky (it didn't get that bad actually) i kept pouring off the clear water-like liquid on top, then I used 1 cup of the moist stuff in a sour-dough recipe - I admit it was somewhat cold coming from my fridge by this point. I used very warm water - the loaf rose just fine but there was *no* real sour dough taste - just a yeasty-dry one. Does anyone have any ideas, or perhaps a better sourdough recipe? Thanks a ton, I have an Welbuilt ABM-100 Mike Longo (longo@attdrs.att.com) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Jun 93 9:08:16 PDT From: Bill Wilhelmi Subject: Sour Powder Message-ID: <9306071608.AA12621@hpcvxjme.cv.hp.com> From: "Steven A. Hocevar" Subject: Why don't 'they' do it? >This sounds wonderful. Can a person buy "sour powder"? If not, how come? Is >it not commercially viable? > >-Steve Recently I bought some starter from the local grocery-store bakery. It turned out not to be starter at all, but some kind of sour powder. I then noticed some packages of commercially produced sourdough bread contain ingredients such as lactic acid, etc. Probably going to Safeway bakery or something like that, you can discover the powder. I haven't used it, but I still have it--it might make a good film developer. -- Bill Wilhelmi Hewlett-Packard - OSSD CV 1000 NE Circle Blvd. Corvallis, OR 97330 bw@cv.hp.com ------------------------------ End of Bread Digest V4 #21 ****************************** Bread Digest Mon, 21 Jun 1993 Volume 4 : Issue 22 Today's Topics: BREAD Digest V4 #21 helping "tired" DAK motor ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 14 Jun 93 08:14:22 EDT From: prh65@cas.org (Pauline Hodges --D65 x2701--) Subject: Re: BREAD Digest V4 #21 Message-ID: <9306140814.AA28235@cas.org> Try making your sourdough starting using equal amounts of milk and flour and just letting it sit out. Don't pour off the clear liquid--stir it back in. I've just started making sourdough bread with some starter that had been in the freezer for maybe as long as 8 years--and boy is it good!! Polly ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Jun 93 10:11:04 PDT From: kenr@storage.tandem.com (Ken Rose) Subject: helping "tired" DAK motor Message-ID: <9306141711.AA04318@orleans.storage.tandem.com> I've had the DAK "R2D2" bread-maker about 2 years, and after about one and a half years the motor seemed to lose power. It would stall while making the heavier doughs. I was talking this over with some other engineers at work, and one suggested that the motor needed cleaning, since dust and flour might be weaking the contact between brushes and so on. Well, I figured I'd give it a shot and flipped the unit upside down to unscrew the base. A little junk came floating out, I could hear the sounds of crumbs moving around, and I removed the rubber feet hoping to find screws underneath them. There aren't screws underneath them, so I put them back in and decided to try the job on a weekend when I had more time. In the interim I made another loaf of bread, and I'll be darned if merely inverting (and shaking a bit) the unit didn`t help the motor! I`ve used it twice since to make sure it wasn`t a fluke, and on recipes that used to stall the motor it keeps on going. So if you have a DAK unit, and the motor seems to stall, try turning it upside down and shaking it a bit before you decide its ready for the big bakery in the sky. -- Ken ------------------------------ End of Bread Digest V4 #22 ****************************** Bread Digest Tue, 29 Jun 1993 Volume 4 : Issue 23 Today's Topics: BREAD Digest V4 #22 Bread machine commits suicide! FWD: Sears now sells Welbilt/DAK R2D2 Stronger Motor For An R2D2? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 22 Jun 93 08:37:44 EDT From: sandy@pt.Cyanamid.COM (Sandy Silverman) Subject: Re: BREAD Digest V4 #22 Message-ID: <9306221237.AA14592@nmr1.pt.Cyanamid.COM> To follow up on the post about turning the machine over and getting out the crumbs: I knew there was some kind of "hitch" in my Zojirushi; it wasn 't kneading properly. I turned it over, took off the bottom plate and found that part of the belt was worn. I called Zoji in California and asked about buying a new belt. They said they would send one for free even though I couldn't prove that we got it less than a year ago (gift) (still under warranty). Pretty nice, I thought. Sanford Silverman >Opinions expressed here are my own< American Cyanamid sandy@pt.cyanamid.com, silvermans@pt.cyanamid.com "Yeast is Best" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Jun 93 08:04:01 EDT From: Is engineering fun yet? 22-Jun-1993 0758 Subject: Bread machine commits suicide! Message-ID: <9306221204.AA22197@us2rmc.bb.dec.com> A friend of mine has the same R2D2 bread machine model that I have. He set it up to make bread this past weekend. As always, it was gyrating wildly on the counter top like a rodeo bull. He noticed that it seemed to be getting suspiciously close to the edge of the counter top when, suddenly, it leaped over the edge and hurtled towards its death on the kitchen floor below. He ran to the side of his bread machine, but it was too late. CPR could not revive it. It left no note, no explanation for this bizarre act of self-inflicted violence. It had always been a quiet, hard-working bread machine and seemed quite happy...up to the end... The wake was closed-casket. Funeral will be for immediate family only. The bread machine leaves its owner, his wife, their child, and their dog. /sdd ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1993 13:39:45 EDT From: Jim Carey Subject: FWD: Sears now sells Welbilt/DAK R2D2 Message-ID: <0096E68B.27F971A0.20319@cykick.infores.com> This was sent in by landers@ibm150.mgmt.purdue.edu: I noticed in last Sunday's insert that Sears is now selling the Welbilt R2D2 model (identical to DAK). I wonder if they'll also be carrying parts and doing service? Also, anyone know if DAK is out of business as has been rumored? -- Jim Carey jcarey@cykick.infores.com or jim.carey@infores.com Information Resources, Inc. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1993 05:41:02 PDT From: wegeng.henr801c@xerox.com Subject: Stronger Motor For An R2D2? Message-ID: <"22-Jun-93 8:40:45".*.Donald_L._Wegeng.Henr801C@Xerox.com> Hi, I`ve got a six month old Welbuilt R2D2 machine. I bought the machine because I wanted to make whole grain bread, and I`ve been disapointed that the motor isn`t strong enough to kneed heavy doughs (my mistake). I started thinking the other day that it might be possible to put a stronger motor in my machine. Has anyone investigated this? It seems logical that the motor from the (insert model number here) DAK machine that`s intended for whole grain bread ought to fit into my machine. I would be interested in hearing from anyone who has replaced the motor in a Welbuilt or DAK machine (even if you didn`t upgrade to a stronger motor). I would also be interested in hearing whether the heavy duty DAK machine can really handle heavy doughs. Thanks, /Don wegeng.henr801c@xerox.com ------------------------------ End of Bread Digest V4 #23 ****************************** Bread Digest Tue, 6 Jul 1993 Volume 4 : Issue 24 Today's Topics: Auto Reply from Watch_Mail for 23-JUN-1993 15:00 to 6-JUL-1993 00:00 BREAD Digest V4 #23 Bread machine commits suicide! Stronger Motor For An R2D2? Stronger motors Suicidal bread machines ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 29 Jun 93 21:24:32 EDT From: Is engineering fun yet? 29-Jun-1993 2130 Subject: Auto Reply from Watch_Mail for 23-JUN-1993 15:00 to 6-JUL-1993 00:00 Message-ID: <9306300124.AA07109@us2rmc.bb.dec.com> Sorry, I cannot respond to your mail at the moment. I am out of the office until Tuesday, July 6th. In my absence, Richard (STAR::) Sayde should be able to answer questions on Debug Tools or CSPL. You could also try Anne McElearney (EVMS::RIX), Burns (SKYLAB::) Fisher, or Jim (EVMS::) Goddard. Richard will also be acting moderator of STAR::EXTENDED-VAX and STAR::CSPL. So send those membership requests/problems his way. Since you're disappointed with my mailwatch message so far, if you're interested in where I am THIS time (and don't mind tasteless song lyrics!), read on.....with the theme from The Beverly Hillbillies running through your mind..... Let me tell you a little story about a man named Steve The annual drive to Illinois is his pet peeve. Champaign, Illinois is the place we gotta be So he loaded up the van and drove the family...to Illinois, that is...Land O'Lincoln...no swimmin' pools... Next thing you know, 'ol Steve's behind the wheel stoppin' at McDonalds for each and every meal Corn to the left...Corn to the right Drivin' cross-country all day and all night Night, that is...Don't wanna stop... Three days later Steve arrives in Champaign No feeling in his legs. In his neck a stabbing pain. Out from the house comes the cast from Hee-Haw. Oops...My mistake...It's grandpa and the in-laws. In-laws, that is, and their dog, Max. The in-laws say, "This is where you're gonna stay!" 85 degrees at night; 90 by day. Sweatin' like a pig for more than a week Gotta wait an hour just to take a leak No A/C...One bathroom... After a week that seems like a year Pedal to the metal, we're gettin' outta here! Home in New Hampshire is where I'd rather be Got three bathrooms when I need to pee Pee, that is, and poop sometimes too... Then, at last, it's back to work I go Back to relax, little do they know But Mother DEC says, "You gotta use vacation time! Or we'll take it all away...every single dime!" Dime, that is...Got no money left... /sdd ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Jun 93 9:17:06 EDT From: fritz@ben.dev.upenn.edu (Katherine Fritz) Subject: Re: BREAD Digest V4 #23 Message-ID: <9306301317.AA25111@ben.dev.upenn.edu> Regarding Sears selling Welbilt R2D2 model bread machines: This is not new: my husband bought my Welbilt R2D2 machine at Sears more than 2 years ago. Also, DAK is not out of business (I just got a new catalog from them the other day), but I understand is reorganizing under Chapter 11 protection. Katie --------------------- Internet: fritz@ben.dev.upenn.edu CIS: 71257,3153 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 01 Jul 1993 10:25:03 EDT From: Jim Carey Subject: Re: Bread machine commits suicide! Message-ID: <0096ED82.73290D40.22482@cykick.infores.com> Ours tried to commit suicide, but only succeeded at killing our glass measuring cup. It happened to have been used, and had a large dent in the side when we got it (I assume it did this before). Now when we use it, we leave it sitting on our gas stove with one of the burner covers (the thing the pots sit on) removed. The front cover holds the machine in place. By the way, if the stove is turned on, it generates an overheat error code and locks up. The code isn't documented anywhere, so if you ever see an unexplained error code, check the ambient temp. -- Jim Carey jcarey@cykick.infores.com or jim.carey@infores.com Information Resources, Inc. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 4 Jul 93 14:17:43 HST From: richard@pegasus.com (Richard Foulk) Subject: Re: Stronger Motor For An R2D2? Message-ID: <9307050017.AA15356@pegasus.com> >I`ve got a six month old Welbuilt R2D2 machine. I bought the machine because I >wanted to make whole grain bread, and I`ve been disapointed that the motor >isn`t strong enough to kneed heavy doughs (my mistake). I started thinking the >other day that it might be possible to put a stronger motor in my machine. Has >anyone investigated this? It seems logical that the motor from the (insert >model number here) DAK machine that`s intended for whole grain bread ought to >fit into my machine. > Nah. I've had a DAK machine for a few years now and never felt that the motor was too weak. (It's possible that older machines have stronger motors, but I doubt it.) Assuming your recipe doesn't have rocks in it, I'm pretty sure I can adjust it to work with my machine with little trouble. Generally you just add more water. It's my impression that the machines that are meant to handle whole wheat, etc., better, differ mostly in their ability to extend rise times and such. -- Richard Foulk richard@pegasus.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 01 Jul 1993 10:10:16 EDT From: Jim Carey Subject: Stronger motors Message-ID: <0096ED80.621F1780.22475@cykick.infores.com> We recently bought the heavy duty DAK machine. It seems to hold up fairly well under heavy whole wheat breads. We make a lot of 100% whole wheat breads in it. The only thing I miss is the sweet cycle. Anyone know which is closest? -- Jim Carey jcarey@cykick.infores.com or jim.carey@infores.com Information Resources, Inc. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Jun 93 08:08:49 CDT From: hinz@memphis.med.ge.com (David Hinz) Subject: Re: Suicidal bread machines Message-ID: <9306301308.AA01127@wmo.med.ge.com> The note about the R2D2 breadmaker which leapt to it's death is a truly tragic tale indeed. I have noticed suicidal tendancies in my machine as well, and my solution is to keep it on a rather short leash. Y'see, I wound the cord back up, so it can't get more than about 1.5 feet from the outlet. If it wobbles too close to the edge, it'll unplug itself. I've only had this happen once, but I guess this means it works. It must have been tugging at that plug for quite some time. So, you might want to think about putting a shorter leash on your little beastie there. Dave Hinz ------------------------------ End of Bread Digest V4 #24 ****************************** Bread Digest Tue, 13 Jul 1993 Volume 4 : Issue 25 Today's Topics: Suicidal bread machines ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 6 Jul 93 18:44:25 -0600 From: Alan Silverstein Subject: Re: Suicidal bread machines Message-ID: <9307070044.AA04126@hpfcajs.fc.hp.com> > If it wobbles too close to the edge, it'll unplug itself. "The attention span of a computer is only as long as its power cord." I guess that's still true even when it's wrapped in a bread maker. ------------------------------ End of Bread Digest V4 #25 ****************************** Bread Digest Tue, 20 Jul 1993 Volume 4 : Issue 26 Today's Topics: English muffin recipe? Hitachi Wear King Arthur Flour Baker's catalog Recipes wanted: recipe for best sweet-rolls ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 14 Jul 93 09:08:59 EDT From: greg@viewlogic.com (Gregory Larkin) Subject: English muffin recipe? Message-ID: <9307141308.AA11024@elvis> Hi, Does anyone have a bread machine recipe for English muffins? I have made calzones and bagels in the machine (manual mode) so far, and I would like to try muffins. Thanks! Greg Larkin Viewlogic Systems, Inc. Marlboro, Massachusetts, USA greg@Viewlogic.COM ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Jul 1993 20:53:10 -0500 (EST) From: Brian Hostetler Subject: Hitachi Wear I've got a Hitachi HB201 or whatever. Anyway, I've noticed that some of the metal coating on the bottom of the inside of the machine is starting to wear off. Anyone else experiencing this? -- Brian "C15H15N2-CON(C2H5)2" --don't leave earth without it... bhostetl@indiana.edu, bhostetl@silver.ucs.indiana.edu, bhostetl@leave.me.alone ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1993 16:58:56 EDT From: Jim Carey Subject: King Arthur Flour Baker's catalog Message-ID: <0096FBDE.74DC3B20.24999@cykick.infores.com> We recently received a copy of the King Arthur Flour Baker's catalog. It has a large collection of stuff having to do with baking. One thing it does have is a large collection of specialty flours like Amaranth, chickpea, and others. Their white flour prices are high compared to what is in our Stop and Shop, but it is a supply for the other types of flours. Their order number is 1-800-827-6836 (daytime hours Eastern time). Their 24-hour fax number is 1-802-649-5359. -- Jim Carey jcarey@cykick.infores.com or jim.carey@infores.com Information Resources, Inc. Me speak for them? HAH. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Jul 1993 08:07:22 -0400 (EDT) From: roca@sequoia.sequoia.com (Michael C. Roca) Subject: Recipes Message-ID: <9307141207.AA31025@sequoia.sequoia.com> Jeff Marsh wrote: >I susbscribed to this group several weeks ago and there has been no activity. >So, in reality, this is a test, and a question as to whether people would like >to start using this group to exchange recipes, experiences with bread machines, >flours, etc. I am interested in sharing recipes. I have recently purchased a book called _BreadMaker_Recipes_II_ by Donna (I can't remember her last name, but "Baker" would be appropriate.) I would be willing to share a couple of the recipes from that book after I try them, just so others can decide if they want to purchase the book themselves. I would also be willing to share a couple of the recipes that my wife and I use regularly. One is the Pizza Bread recipe from DAK. Our family loves this kind of bread. Also, I like the conventional loaves, so most often, when time allows, I will mix the dough in the Welbilt and then do the rising and baking conventionally. I can share my own "white bread" and "corn and molasses bread" recipes, if anyone is interested. Happy Baking, Michael C. Roca -- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Jul 93 11:22 EDT From: "Tamara Shaffer" Subject: wanted: recipe for best sweet-rolls Message-ID: <199307141523.AA19185@mozart> I like the recipe that came with my DAK, but I'd like to try what *you* think is the best recipe for breakfast sweet-rolls. Cinnamon, apple, raisin, etc. Please send those recipes! TAMARA sastls@mvs.sas.com mommy to Melissa (5/1/91) and Sarah (5/3/93) ------------------------------ End of Bread Digest V4 #26 ****************************** Bread Digest Wed, 21 Jul 1993 Volume 4 : Issue 27 Today's Topics: Auto Reply from Watch_Mail for 16-JUL-1993 14:00 to 2-AUG-1993 00:00 Bagel recipe for bread maker BREAD Digest V4 #26 breadmaker compendium? English muffins and bagels Excellent bread machine recipe book! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 20 Jul 93 22:27:56 EDT From: Is engineering fun yet? 20-Jul-1993 2234 Subject: Auto Reply from Watch_Mail for 16-JUL-1993 14:00 to 2-AUG-1993 00:00 Message-ID: <9307210227.AA20647@us2rmc.bb.dec.com> Nope, I'm not here and won't be back until August 2nd. It's highly likely that as you're reading this, I will have just emerged from a brisk, ocean swim, cool droplets of salt water still clinging to my heaving chest. I firmly stroke my soaked hair back away from my eyes, my rippling biceps pumped full of blood from the vigorous swim. The salt still stings my eyes as torrents of water gush through my ears and nostrils, numbing my usually-acute senses. Slowly, salt water, warmed and stained by its brief voyage through my cranium, deliberately oozes from each orifice and streams down my neck like rivers of molten lava, only wetter. My hair glistens and sparkles in the intense sunlight, painted pure gold by the sun god himself. Majestically, my athletic legs carry me to my towel, which anxiously awaits my embrace on the steaming hot sand. But much to the towel's surprise, I instead hurl my body upon it, turning to expose my massive upper torso to the scorching heat, my eyelids pressed tightly together. There I lay so vulnerable...so innocent...and the towel still rigid with astonishment. My body tingles as the sun bakes every pore, my brain focused on the smells and muffled sounds of the beach. A radio in the distance is playing songs I remember from High School, awakening sensations and feelings in that young, high school athlete. My brain, now mature and sophisticated, quickly realizes that all future daydreams such as this might possibly take place from a prison cell...and immediately switches to thoughts of the Red Sox. I drift off into a hypnotic state, paralyzed like a victim of an alien abduction, and, coincidentally, resembling a Red Sox batter with an 0-2 count, looking at a fast ball right down the middle of the plate. Children are laughing and playing. They must not be MY children. And no wonder. They are cooking food on my grotesquely overdeveloped shoulders which, now hideously sunburned, are radiating sufficient heat to melt the polar ice caps. I'm intrigued and impressed by the childrens' ingenuity, who are using the gargantuan sun blisters to hold the food in place. The waves are crashing nearby, blending into the numerous conversations which I can hear ever so clearly. Someone is weighing the pros and cons of a sex-change operation. Another is describing details of recent hemorrhoid surgery. Suddenly, I'm distracted by a pregnant woman in a thong bathing suit. A voracious horsefly seizes the opportunity to make its assault, tearing a huge chunk of flesh from my tender inner thigh. My hand springs like a cobra, clutching the gorged fly and squeezing the very life from its puny body as I laugh maniacally with satisfaction. Wary glances from strangers seem to be questioning my sanity. How dare they? Bwah ha ha ha!!! Several distinct odors waft across my flared nostrils in the sea breeze, blended with the disarray of the gene pool in West Virginia. As with the analysis of a fine wine, my brain works to decipher each component of the aroma. Cigarette smoke mingles with suntan lotion and the mellow, smoky, and yet somewhat fruity stench of decomposing seaweed, shellfish, and crustaceans. I reach into the cooler for an ice cold beer. The bottle sweats profusely in the noonday sun, much like the scene at a Miami Weight Watchers meeting in July. Sand sticks to the neck and mouth of the bottle as it approaches my lips and then crunches noticeably between my teeth. I swallow huge gulps of the icy cold liquid which travels instantly to my lower intestine, rumbling violently like a thunderstorm in the Texas Panhandle. I suddenly realize my horrible oversight, not taking care of nature's business before leaving for the beach, a mistake now haunting me in the noonday sun. As cramps stab and slash at my insides like Jason from Friday the 13th, inconspicuously, and with the deftness of a KGB agent, I measure wind speed and direction. A small group of elderly foreigners are sitting downwind as I hatch my evil plot. With the precision of an F16 fighter pilot, I unleash my weapons of mass destruction. The mother all gas clouds drifts like a laser-guided missile towards its unsuspecting prey. As the first victims begin reeling with terror, my face displays an expression of utmost innocence, like that of a newborn child. No one suspects. One by one, the elderly victims fall helplessly like Digital stock, deprived of their life-sustaining oxygen. Sorry about that. A postal worker with a gun to my head made me type all that in! In my absence, Richard (STAR::) Sayde should be able to answer questions on Debug Tools or CSPL. Unfortunately, he'll be on vacation for part of the time too. You could also try Anne McElearney (EVMS::RIX), Burns (SKYLAB::) Fisher, or Jim (EVMS::) Goddard. Richard will also be acting moderator of STAR::EXTENDED-VAX and STAR::CSPL. So send those membership requests/problems his way or try the others mentioned above if Richard's not available. Keep the company afloat until I return from vacation. /sdd ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Jul 93 14:23:25 EDT From: greg@viewlogic.com (Gregory Larkin) Subject: Bagel recipe for bread maker Message-ID: <9307211823.AA20856@elvis> Here is a recipe for bagels from _The_Best_Bread_Machine_Cookbook_Ever_ by Madge Rosenberg. re: Bagel recipe for bread maker 1.5 teaspoon yeast 2 cups bread flour 1.5 tablespoon sugar 1 teaspoon salt .75 cup water 1 tablespoon barley malt syrup 2 tablespoons poppy seeds, sesame seeds, kosher salt, or minced onion, or whatever! 1. Add all ingredients for the dough except the barley malt syrup in the order suggested by your bread machine. Process on the manual cycle. 2. At the end of the cycle, remove the dough from the machine. Preheat the oven to 375 degrees. In a large pot, bring 2 quarts of water to a boil. 3. While the water comes to a boil, divide the dough into 8 pieces. Roll each piece into a rope 12 inches long. Make a circle of each piece, overlapping the ends by at least an inch and pressing or rolling the overlap tightly to seal. Let the bagels rise for only 5 minutes. 4. Add the malt syrup to the boling water. Lower the bagels a few at a time into the water. As soon as the bagels rise to the top, remove them with a spatula and place on a lightly greased baking sheet. Sprinkle with .75 teaspoon of any of the toppings over each bagel and bake for 20 minutes, or until golden. NOTES: I couldn't find barley malt syrup, so I used molasses. It seems to work in almost the same way. I make 4 bagels out of this recipe, instead of 8. They seem to be the same size as the kind you would buy in the store if there are 4 of them. If you want them smaller, make 8. Enjoy! Greg Larkin Viewlogic Systems, Inc. Marlboro, Massachusetts, USA greg@Viewlogic.COM ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Jul 1993 10:50:23 -0500 (CDT) From: Sandy Duveneck Subject: Re: BREAD Digest V4 #26 Message-ID: I'd love the Pizza Bread recipe. |Sandy Duveneck If you tell the truth | |UW-Parkside you don't have to remember | |Kenosha, WI anything. Mark Twain | ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Jul 93 11:40:03 PDT From: meb4593@icdfs.boeing.com (Michael Bain) Subject: breadmaker compendium? Message-ID: <9307211840.AA02320@icdfs.ca.boeing.com> Is there a summary/recommendation list of breadmakers? I've been using my KitchenAid mixer to make bread, however my dad sent me a Zorisushi (sp) breadmaker which promptly was smashed by the Post Office. Now I'm looking for a replacement. As a reference, our Costco has a Hitachi for about $160 that looks good, but maybe not as good as the Zorisushi. --------------------------------------------------------------------- Good news is just life's way of keeping you off balance. --------------------------------------------------------------------- Michael Bain (206) 294-1181 Boeing Commercial Airplane Group Seattle, WA 777 Division meb4593@icdfs.ca.boeing.com --------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jul 93 21:33:28 PDT From: ace@tidbits.com (Adam C. Engst) Subject: English muffins and bagels Message-ID: How'd you do the bagels? I've done pizza and calzone dough, but haven't been able to find a good bagel recipe. I've played with english muffins, but the closest I came (I let it be a bread) involved using about a tablespoon of vinegar to a white bread. Kind of worked. cheers ... -Adam In Regards to your letter <0096FCC0.F16755C0.25215@cykick.infores.com>: > Does anyone have a bread machine recipe for English muffins? I have made > calzones and bagels in the machine (manual mode) so far, and I would like > to try muffins. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Jul 93 14:33:29 EDT From: greg@viewlogic.com (Gregory Larkin) Subject: Excellent bread machine recipe book! Message-ID: <9307211833.AA20944@elvis> Hi, I just wanted to tell you all about *another* bread machine recipe book. We got it along with the bread machine and it has some great recipes in it. It's called _The_Best_Bread_Machine_Cookbook_Ever_, and it's written by Madge Rosenberg. The publisher is HarperCollins Publishers, Inc., 10 E. 53rd Street, New York, NY, 10022. There are good descriptions of types of flours, various ingredients, and types of machines. There are about 7 machines listed and the author claims to have made each loaf of bread in each machine. Also, there are ingredient amounts listed for small loaves (1 pound) and large loaves (1.5 pounds). There are addresses for flour and ingredient suppliers, too. We have made the following breads from the book: (there are 150 recipes total) Anadema Cracked Wheat and Artichoke Grapefruit and Poppy Seed Double Pumpkin White ;) Challah Oatmeal Sweet Potato (!) Buttermilk Pumpernickel Cracked Wheat and Pepper Curried Banana and Pumpkin Carrot and Thyme Enjoy! Greg Larkin Viewlogic Systems, Inc. Marlboro, Massachusetts, USA greg@Viewlogic.COM ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Jul 1993 9:41:03 -0600 (MDT) From: FARLEY Message-ID: <930721094103.2040644d@WSC.COLORADO.EDU> I have an English Muffin recipe or two for bread machines as well as an excellent recipe for English Muffin Loaf Bread. Also, I am interested in sweet roll recipes -- I tried one from my bread machine cookbook and was disappointed... Thirdly, I would love to have the Pizza bread recipe someone mentioned that they had... TIA, Laurene Farley Western State College of Colorado adp_laurene@wsc.colorado.edu ------------------------------ End of Bread Digest V4 #27 ****************************** Bread Digest Thu, 29 Jul 1993 Volume 4 : Issue 28 Today's Topics: BREAD Digest V4 #27 COMB has $80 Welbilt English Muffins! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 23 Jul 93 02:37:18 EDT From: Lee/Lynn Lightfoot <72730.1006@CompuServe.COM> Subject: BREAD Digest V4 #27 Message-ID: <930723063718_72730.1006_FHG39-1@CompuServe.COM> Here is my pizza bread! 2 c bread flour 1 Tbs oil 1 tsp salt 2 Tbs sugar 7/8 c milk 1/4 c mixed Parmesan and Romano cheese (grated) 1.5 tsp yeast Make dough using DOUGH setting Let rest for 20-30 minutes Seperate into as many balls as you want pizzas... will also make one 12" pizza knead a little and let rest for 10 minutes shape into flat circle(s) and place on a baking pan and prick with a fork let rest for 10 min at room temp brush with Pizza sauce, sprinkle with Mozzarella cheese at top with your favorite topping (if you want bread to go with a meal... it is good with just the sauce on it!) Bake in 400 deg F. oven for 15-20 min or until golden ** Lynn *;-) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Jul 93 7:35:13 CDT From: William Martin Subject: COMB has $80 Welbilt I just got a catalog from the discounters/liquidators C.O.M.B. which has the rectangular-shaped Welbilt "The Bread Oven" for $79.99 and free shipping. That strikes me as being a lower price than I've seen before, but I may just be misremembering, of course... It's a "refurbished" item, "like-new" with a 60-day warranty. I guess one might consider this a way to avoid infant mortality in unused appliances... :-) Stock # C709-1045. 800-328-0609. It's on the back cover of the catalog labelled "Aug./Sept. 1993" with a purple cover. The free shipping offer terminates Sept. 15 93. The catalog blurb does NOT specify the weight of bread loaf baked or the exact Welbilt model number. Will ------------------------------ Date: 23 Jul 93 17:02:31 EDT From: Lee/Lynn Lightfoot <72730.1006@CompuServe.COM> Subject: English Muffins! Message-ID: <930723210231_72730.1006_FHG47-2@CompuServe.COM> Gregory was looking for an English Muffin recipe??? I don't have this sized down for my machine... but here is the recipe from my book of 'regular' bread recipies... as for sour dough muffins... I would assume you would need to add your proper starter to the recipe. AGAIN... THIS IS NOT SIZED FOR BREAD MACHINES! I have put it here to help you compare recipies!!! 5 to 5.5 c bread or all-purpose flour, approximately 2 packages dry yeast 2 Tbls sugar 1 tsp salt 1/2 cup nonfat dry milk 1.25 c hot water (120 deg - 130 deg) 3 Tbls butter, room temp. Cornmeal Griddle or baking sheet = 1 heavy metal, electric, or soapsonte griddle, or heavy skillet, or baking sheet 1) In a large mixing or mixer bowl measure 3 cups flour, and the dry ingredients. Stir to blend together. Add the butter to the hot water and pour into the dry ingredients. Beat for 2 minutes with the mixer flat beater, or 150 strokes with a wooden spoon. Add the egg. Stir in the remaining flour, 1/4 c at a time, until the dough is a rough, shaggy mass. If using a mixer, change to the dough hook. 2) Turn the dough onto a floured work surface and knead with a strong push-turn-fold motion until the dough is smooth, elastic, and feels alive under your hands. Inthe mixer, the dough will clean the sides of the bowl and form a ball around the hook and move with it. If the dough sould continue to be sticky, add liberal sprinkles of flour. Knead for 10 minutes. 3) Pat the ball fo dough with lightly greased fingertips and place in a bowl. Cover with plastic wrap and set aside at room temperature to double in size, about 1 hour. 4) Punch down the dough, knead for 30 seconds, and set aside to rest for 1 minutes. Sprinkle the work surface with cornmeal and turn the dough onto it. Roll out the dough until it is 1/4" thick. If it resists the rolling pin and pulls back, let it rest for 1 or 2 minutes. Cut into 3" round (4" for eggs Benedict) with a cookie cutter. 5) Sprinkle the work surface with cornmeal and put the rounds under a towel. Let rise until they are doubled in size to about 1/2" thick, 45 minutes. 6) Heat the electric griddle to 325 deg. or preheat teh oven to 450 deg 20 minutes before baking. 7) Bake the muffins for 2 min on each side. Do not cook fast, so avoid the hot center of the griddle; place the muffins around the sides of the griddle. Reduce heat and bake for 6 additional minutes on each side or a total of about 16 minutes. Don't scorch. 8) If using th oven, place the cut muffins on teh baking sheet and bake for 15 min, turning them over after 6 or 7 minutes. They will rise and swell to look rather like puffballs. (if using a convection oven, reduce heat 50 deg.) 9) Remove the muffins fromt eh griddle ro baking sheet. Cool on a metal rack before toasting. Pull apart with the tines of a fork, or the fingers, to toast. These freeze well and keep for months inthe deep freeze at 0 deg. ** Lynn *;-) ------------------------------ End of Bread Digest V4 #28 ****************************** Bread Digest Fri, 6 Aug 1993 Volume 4 : Issue 29 Today's Topics: Other bread related mail exploders ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 30 Jul 93 07:36:00 -0500 From: tripos!jupiter!kathy@wupost.wustl.edu (Kathy Clark Jupiter1) Subject: Other bread related mail exploders Message-ID: <9307301236.AA00094@jupiter.tripos> Does anyone know of any other bread related mail exploders? Thanks, Kathy Clark kathy@tripos.com ------------------------------ End of Bread Digest V4 #29 ****************************** Bread Digest Tue, 31 Aug 1993 Volume 4 : Issue 30 Today's Topics: bread machine repairs ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 24 Aug 93 21:59:53 EDT From: "J. Lowe" Subject: bread machine repairs We have Regal Deluxe Automatic Breadmaker whose rotating mechanism no longer wo rks. Does anyone know a way to repair it or a cheap place to buy a replacement pan? The motor still makes noise, but nothing turns and the mechanism can't be turned even by turning the paddle. ------------------------------ End of Bread Digest V4 #30 ****************************** Bread Digest Tue, 7 Sep 1993 Volume 4 : Issue 31 Today's Topics: Bread Machine Blues making bread with spelt ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 7 Sep 93 09:39:50 From: troy@centerline.com Subject: Bread Machine Blues Message-ID: <9309071339.AA15303@blade> Greetings, I received a Sanyo bread machine last year as a christmas present. For the first 5-6 months of this year I made a fresh loaf of delicious bread every week. Then summer came and the weather became much more hot and humid and I haven't been able to make a descent loaf of bread since. The main problem is that the loaf seems to collapse at some point during the baking process. Does anybody out there know what I need to change in the recipe/baking process to stop this from happening. I miss my weekly fresh bread :-( Thanks. --Troy Runkel troy@centerline.com ------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 Sep 1993 10:05:32 -0400 From: Gene Amdur Subject: making bread with spelt Message-ID: <93Sep1.100536edt.16169@orasis.vis.toronto.edu> I've recently been given about 4 kilos (8lbs) of spelt flour both white and whole wheat. Does anyone know the difference between spelt and regular flour in terms of liquid requirements? Has anyone made any loaves with spelt on their bread machine? I'd love to see some recipies. --gene ------------------------------ End of Bread Digest V4 #31 ****************************** Bread Digest Wed, 15 Sep 1993 Volume 4 : Issue 32 Today's Topics: Bread Machine Blues Recipes with blueberries Sour Dough Starter (2 msgs) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 08 Sep 1993 09:28:51 +0100 From: Lory.Lee@infores.com (Lory Lee) Subject: Re: Bread Machine Blues Message-ID: <199309081332.AA14142@iri14> Troy, >.......... The main problem is that the loaf seems to collapse at some >point during the baking process. Does anybody out there know what I >need to change in the recipe/baking process to stop this from >happening. I miss my weekly fresh bread :-( Thanks. > Mix in 1/4 cup of wheat gluten with the flour. You can find wheat gluten at most Health Food stores. -Lory /* * Lory Lee Information Resources Inc. * lory.lee@infores.com 200 Fifth Avenue * (617) 890-1100 ext 7549 Waltham, Mass 02154 */ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Sep 93 08:46:59 -0500 From: tripos!jupiter!kathy@wupost.wustl.edu (Kathy Clark Jupiter1) Subject: Recipes with blueberries Message-ID: <9309081346.AA25584@jupiter.tripos> Does anyone know a good bread recipe for bread made with blueberries? I have the 1lb loaf size. Thanks in advance. Kathy Clark ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Sep 93 20:27:20 EST From: DLJACK01@ukpr.uky.edu Subject: Sour Dough Starter I am new to making bread so I have a request many of you (I'm sure) have heard too many times already. I need to know how to make the starter for sour dough bread. I'm not too picky about what variety. Any (and all) are fine. Thanks. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Sep 93 19:59:52 EST From: DLJACK01@ukpr.uky.edu Subject: Sourdough Starter I need to know how to make the starter for the above. ------------------------------ End of Bread Digest V4 #32 ****************************** Bread Digest Wed, 22 Sep 1993 Volume 4 : Issue 33 Today's Topics: Blueberries and Bread! loaves with sunken tops ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 17 Sep 93 08:41:14 EDT From: greg@viewlogic.com (Gregory Larkin) Subject: Blueberries and Bread! Message-ID: <9309171241.AA09139@elvis> Kathy, Here is a recipe that I made last night in my bread machine. The blueberries seem to congregate near the bottom of the loaf a bit! This make a 1 lb. loaf. Blueberry and Oat Bread 1.5 teaspoons yeast 1.75 cups plus 2 tablespoons bread flour .5 cup rolled oats 2 tablespoons wheat germ 1 tablespoon vegetable oil 3 tablespoons brown sugar 1 teaspoon salt 3 tablespoons unsalted butter 2/3 cup water .75 cup blueberries 1. Add ingredients except the blueberries in the order suggested by your bread machine manual and process on the basic bread cycle according to the manufacturer's directions. 2. At the beeper (or at the end of the first kneading in the Panasonic or National), add the blueberries. NOTES: This loaf came out pretty soft. I didn't think it was cooked fully, with the normal bake setting, but once I let it cool completely, it seemed to firm up a bit. Enjoy! Greg Larkin Viewlogic Systems, Inc. Marlboro, Massachusetts, USA greg@Viewlogic.COM ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Sep 93 23:09:30 PDT From: lyson@mprgate.mpr.ca (Angela Lyson) Subject: loaves with sunken tops Message-ID: <9309160609.AA15452@kiwi.mpr.ca> We ran into this problem ourselves, and have solved it by slightly reducing the amount of water in the recipe. For a one-pound loaf, we generally use half a tablespoon less water. Hope this helps. ----- Angela Lyson MPR Teltech Ltd. lyson@mprgate.mpr.ca 8999 Nelson Way ...uunet!ubc-cs!mprgate!lyson Burnaby, B.C. Canada V5A 4B5 ------------------------------ End of Bread Digest V4 #33 ****************************** Bread Digest Wed, 29 Sep 1993 Volume 4 : Issue 34 Today's Topics: Blueberries Italian bread sunken loaves ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 23 Sep 93 08:56:34 -0500 From: tripos!jupiter!kathy@wupost (Kathy Clark Jupiter1) Subject: Blueberries Message-ID: <9309231356.AA02278@jupiter.tripos> I tried Gregory Larkin's recipe for blueberry and oat bread but modified it by using a mixture of DRIED blueberries and raisins. I also added close to 1/8C water. It tasted great and makes good french toast. Kathy Clark ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Sep 93 16:57:17 -0400 From: pagulayan%frgen.dnet@smithkline.com Subject: Italian bread Message-ID: <9309272057.AA01763@smithkline.com> Hello everyone... Does anyone have good recipes/book for making Italian country breads? I am looking for a recipe for the bread called PUGLIESE. Thanks... Abraham ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1993 23:29:24 -0400 From: edler@jan.ultra.nyu.edu (Jan Edler) Subject: sunken loaves Message-ID: <9309230329.AA15106@jan.ultra.nyu.edu> >From the Laurel's Kitchen Bread Book I learned that one of the causes of sunken loaves is insufficient salt. Apparently salt acts to moderate the yeast, so the amount can be tricky: too much and the bread won't rise enough, too little and it rises too fast, then collapses. So, try slightly increasing the salt. I use about a teaspoon with about 3 cups flour. Also, as previously mentioned, the amount of water is critical. In my opinion it is the single greatest weakness of current automatic breadmakers. They do not sense the moisture content of the dough, as a person does when making bread by hand. Accurate measurement isn't enough, as moisture content of different flours varys considerably, even by season. And humidity has an effect. It seems to me a qualitative improvement in breadmaker design would be to figure out how to sense moisture. Another possibility is to just sense physical resistance to kneeding; if it is too tough, squirt in a bit more water, but this strategy might be too simplistic. Jan Edler edler@nyu.edu PS I make all our bread in a DAK turbo II machine. Our original DAK machine wore out after a couple years. PPS I heartily recommend the Laurel's Kitchen Bread Book. It says essentially nothing about automatic bread makers, but has lots of basic information about the bread making process, especially when dealing with whole grain flours. I have found the recipes easy to adapt (just divide down to about the 3 cup range for the flour). ------------------------------ End of Bread Digest V4 #34 ****************************** Bread Digest Fri, 1 Oct 1993 Volume 4 : Issue 35 Today's Topics: Pane Pugliese Sunken Loaves ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1993 20:33:17 -0700 (PDT) From: Kathleen B Warner Subject: Pane Pugliese Message-ID: Carol Field's The Italian Baker (Harper & Row, 1985) has a recipe for Pane Pugliese. She recommends a mixer to knead it, and has VERY thorough instructions. Here are the ingredients and some brief instructions. Pane Pugliese (2 large or 3 small loaves) 1 1/4 teaspoons dry yeast or 1/2 small cake (9 grams) fresh yeast 1/4 cup warm water 3 cups water, room temperature 4/5 cup (200 grams) Biga (starter made from 1/4 tsp dry yeast, 1/4 c warm water, 3/4 cup room temperature water, and 2 1/2 cups flour. Let this rise 6-24 hrs at cool room temperature, and store in the refrigerator until wanted) 7 1/2 cups (1000 grams) unbleached all-purpose flour 1 Tablespoon + 1 teaspoon (20 grams) salt Proof the yeast in the warm water. Add 3 c water and the starter, mix till blended. Add flour and salt, mix till dough comes together and pulls off the sides of the bowl. Knead 3-5 minutes in a mixer, longer by hand. Dough will be very soft and elastic. Let rise about 3 hours, shape into 3 round loaves or 2 big flattish ones. If you have baking stones, place loaves on whatever you use to slide them into the oven with, or on your baking sheets on sprinkled corn meal if you don't. Let rise about 1 hour. Preheat oven to 450F, and 5 to 10 minutes before baking flour the loaves' tops and dimple them with your fingers. Bake 50-60 minutes for big loaves, 30-35 minutes for little ones. Tap the loaves to test for doneness (hollow=done) and cool on a rack. I don't know if The Italian Baker is still in print, but it is an excellent book, well worth hunting for. Senza il pane tutto diventa orfano. (This, and some other sayings, came from her introduction.) Kathy Warner (kwarner@halcyon.com) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Sep 93 05:52:01 -0400 From: pagulayan%frgen.dnet@smithkline.com Subject: Sunken Loaves Message-ID: <9309300952.AA28767@smithkline.com> Hello... Sunken loaves can also be caused by a dough which has risen too much before being placed in the oven. The dough rises some more before all the yeast are "killed". This may cause the collapse. Make sure that - the dough rises only about a third more from the container - the oven temperature is hot enough to stop the yeast activity ( about 150 deg. Fahrenheit). Normally the baking temperature is higher than this so check that the oven is pre-heated. I agree with Jan Edler that salt affects the activity of the yeast. Aside from this, salt adds flavour though some breads do not have any salt added in them e.g. several southern Italian breads. This was to prevent early bread spoilage because salt attracts moisture. Also, their prosciutto hams normally are salty enough. Jan Edler made a very good comment how machines do not detect the write amount of moisture. Doing it by hand, one can really feel how much moisture is required. I suppose technology one day would be able to do it but it is fun to make bread by hand. It is a good stress reliever! Bye now.... Abraham ------------------------------ End of Bread Digest V4 #35 ****************************** Bread Digest Mon, 11 Oct 1993 Volume 4 : Issue 36 Today's Topics: Any info on Dak Turbo Baker IV? Low Gluten bread ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 4 Oct 93 22:42:35 EST From: "Lloyd Robbins - X5726 - Cogito eggo sum - I think, therefore I 'm a Subject: Any info on Dak Turbo Baker IV? Message-ID: <199310050243.AA00402@core1.hssc.ksc.nasa.gov> Hi, all. Just joined the list. I have a Turbo Baker IV (the whole wheat machine) on backorder from DAK. I've scanned through the archives looking for comments on this machine, and only found one mention of it (positive). Any other net.opinions? Are the references to the DAK R2-D2 machine talking about the Turbo Baker II? Or is this a different machine? I gather from the msgs in the archives that some of these units had a motor problem. Has anyone with the TB IV (sounds like a Star Trek item :-) ) had any of these or any other problems? Sounds like I need to tie an anchor to that bugger to keep it on the counter. Thanks in advance for any info. |-------------------------------------------------------------------------| | Lloyd G. Robbins | Harris Space Systems, Rockledge, Florida | |-------------------------------------------------------------------------| | lloyd-robbins@ksc.nasa.gov | Managing programmers is like herding cats. | |-------------------------------------------------------------------------| ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 07 Oct 1993 12:08:25 EDT From: Jim Carey Subject: Low Gluten bread Message-ID: <00973A93.1FF0FE40.6094@cykick.infores.com> Has anyone done any low-or-no gluten bread in their machines? My wife is bothered by the gluten, and we're looking for ideas. -- Jim Carey jcarey@cykick.infores.com or jim.carey@infores.com Information Resources, Inc. Me speak for them? HAH. ------------------------------ End of Bread Digest V4 #36 ****************************** Bread Digest Fri, 22 Oct 1993 Volume 4 : Issue 37 Today's Topics: (2 msgs) Low Gluten Bread (2 msgs) Oven cleaner on bread oven? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 17 Oct 93 11:28:10 EST From: candyman@gatecom.com (TOM HAM) Subject: Message-ID: <9310171807.AA17733@netcomsv.netcom.com> I would like some new Batter Bread recipes. I don't use a bread maker and can use up to 8 cups of flour. Gateway Online ... 38 Line Multi-user Interactive Information System Taylor, Michigan - (313)291-5571 2400 baud (313)291-5571 9600 baud Sysops: Bill Mullen - Jeff Breitner ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1993 20:38:29 -0400 (EDT) From: Allen J Michielsen Subject: Message-ID: I just had an opportunity to read your bread list inquiry, in regards to problems with glutton sensitivity. Her glutton sensitivity should be to one (or a few) types of grain, and not all glutton in general. From your posting, I think you are implying Wheat Glutton sensitivity. I have tried a great deal to make in a bread machine, breads which are very high in non-wheat flour. However, it has been without much success. The timing of the cycle and the sensitivity of the dough are not compatible. However, if you are going to make the bread by hand, I would suggest playing with the following. 1. Looking for a source of Oat, Chestnut, Rye, or Durham Glutton. Chestnut glutton is available in Italy, so somebody should import it or order it... 2. Buy a small coffee mill, and grind your own cracked or rolled oats (Old fashioned Oat Meal cereal is a good, easy to find source for rolled). Be sure to grind as fine as possible to release as much of the available Oat Glutton as possible. 3. Increase the preliminary mixing time, and decrease the mixing consistency to thick water (like thick soup), with the non Wheat Flours. The water releases more of the available glutton from the flour. Then, use the required amount of cake or pastry flour (wheat flour, very low in glutton) to thicken the dough out to a normal bread like consistency. Even with the use of wheat bread flour, less of the wheat glutton will be released because the kneeding cycle is more complete. 4. Reduce the maximum rise of the final dough, and do not try to complete multiple rises with the dough (this requires more dough for a normal size loaf, and results in a coarser &/or denser bread). 5. As strange as this sounds... Buy all Wheat Glutton, and use only a 1/2 a teaspoon of it with the dough, which is made from _all_ _non_Wheat flours. I believe that the small additional pure glutton is less than the total amount of wheat glutton which is in bread made from mostly of all wheat flour, and all of the glutton content is used in the elasticity of the bread and none (little) remains in the product flour. 6. Personally, I rate rye flour the worst (common) grain for available glutton. Oat, Durham, Semolina, or Semolina further beaten up in a coffee mill are the best in that order for available glutton fro bread. Good luck, let me know how you make out... Cheers, al Al. Michielsen, Crouse Hinds School of Management, Syracuse University InterNet: amichiel@mailbox.syr.edu amichiel@sunrise.acs.syr.edu Bitnet: AMICHIEL@SUNRISE ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1993 23:31:07 -0400 From: edler@jan.ultra.nyu.edu (Jan Edler) Subject: Re: Low Gluten Bread Message-ID: <9310150331.AA16251@jan.ultra.nyu.edu> > Has anyone done any low-or-no gluten bread in their machines? My wife > is bothered by the gluten, and we're looking for ideas. Here is what the Laurel's Kitchen Bread Book suggests: "Maura Bean and Kazuko Nishita of the USDA Western Regional Research Laboratory in Berkeley tested every available natural and synthetic gum, trying to find one that could do what gluten does. They came up with methylcellulose, not exactly what you might call a natural food for sure, but it works. The gum is extracted from cellulose fiber, and is impressively non-toxic." They give the following footnote: "'Evaluation of the health aspects of cellulose and certain cellulose derivatives as food ingredients.' FASEB/SCOGS Report 25 (NTIS PB 274-667) 1974; cited in 'The Food Additives Book', Willis A. Gortner and Nicholas Freydberg, Bantam 1982, page 508." This is what they say about getting it: "Your local health food store may be able to get methocel for you. Otherwise it can be ordered by mail, but it is expensive, $7 for half a pound as we go to press. Half a pound will be enough for 24 loaves. To order by mail write to: Ener-G Foods, Inc. P.O. 24723, Seattle, Washington 98124-0723 Ask for Methocel K4M (90 HG4000). Ask for a copy of their product list too. This company sells a variety of products for people with severe food allergy." They go on to give three methocel & rice flour bread recipes. I have no idea if they are readily adaptable to automatic breadmakers. I've never used methocel, never looked up the references, and never ordered anything from Ener-G Foods. If any of you do try it, I'd appreciate hearing about it because I also know someone who is allergic to wheat gluten. Jan Edler edler@nyu.edu ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Oct 93 15:24:56 PDT From: faigin@aero.org Subject: Low Gluten Bread Message-ID: <199310192225.AA12524@aerospace.aero.org> For some recipies that would be good for low-gluten bread, check out the "Gluten Free Gourmet" and "More From the Gluten Free Gourmet" by Bette Hagman. My wife has used all of the yeasted recipes (except English Muffins) in the first book in our breadmaker (she's gluten-free), until the second book came out. The second book as an entire *chapter* on machine breadmaking, including sourdough (yum!) recipes. Words of warning: these breads won't rise as high, and due to egg and milk content are perishable. Use promptly, or slice and freeze. After several years off of gluten, she finds that they do taste good and make good sandwiches and toast. Daniel ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1993 13:41:01 -0230 From: "Michael Coyne, Grenfell College, Memorial University of Subject: Oven cleaner on bread oven? Message-ID: <00974020.38779040.27281@Leif.ucs.mun.ca> My bread machine (1 lb. Welbuilt) has quite a lot of baked-on material on the inside. I am wondering if anyone has used an oven cleaner (Easy Off, for example) on their oven, and if so, with what results. Thanks. Michael Coyne mcoyne@kean.ucs.mun.ca ------------------------------ End of Bread Digest V4 #37 ****************************** Bread Digest Sat, 30 Oct 1993 Volume 4 : Issue 38 Today's Topics: BREAD Digest V4 #37 correction to previous message glutton sensitivity Low Gluten Bread Other bread-related mail exploders ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 25 Oct 1993 11:41:15 +22311624 (CDT) From: Richard Kershenbaum Subject: Re: BREAD Digest V4 #37 Message-ID: On Fri, 22 Oct 1993 BREAD@cykick.infores.com wrote: > I just had an opportunity to read your bread list inquiry, in regards to > problems with glutton sensitivity. Her glutton sensitivity should be to > one (or a few) types of grain, and not all glutton in general. From your > posting, I think you are implying Wheat Glutton sensitivity. Gluttony is supposedly a sin, but it's best not to be overly sensitive about it. Perhaps the person in question is just a gluten for punishment... --- Richard ============================================================================== | Richard M. Kershenbaum Bitnet: richard@ukanvax | | Manager, Technical Services Internet: richard@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu | | The University of Kansas Fax: (913)864-0485 | | Computer Center Phone: (913)864-0445 | | Lawrence, Kansas 66045 | ============================================================================== ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 24 Oct 93 14:49:15 -0400 From: davew@cs.UMD.EDU (David G. Wonnacott) Subject: correction to previous message Message-ID: <9310241849.AA21963@elan.cs.UMD.EDU> Oops - there is a crucial comma missing from the last sentence of my previous message - "if you can't send me mail" should, of course, read "if you can't, send me mail". Dave W ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 24 Oct 93 12:26:42 PDT From: ace@tidbits.com (Adam C. Engst) Subject: glutton sensitivity Message-ID: In Regards to your letter <0097469E.84312760.9337@cykick.infores.com>: > I just had an opportunity to read your bread list inquiry, in regards to > problems with glutton sensitivity. Yeah, it's a problem when you invite a glutton to dinner and they eat everything in your fridge, isn't it? I'm pretty sensitive to that problem too. :-) :-) :-) cheers ... -Adam Adam C. Engst, TidBITS Editor -- ace@tidbits.com -- info@tidbits.com Author of The Internet Starter Kit for Macintosh -- tisk@tidbits.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 24 Oct 93 14:45:57 -0400 From: davew@cs.UMD.EDU (David G. Wonnacott) Subject: Re: Low Gluten Bread Message-ID: <9310241845.AA21943@elan.cs.UMD.EDU> I friend of mine who is allergic to wheat gluten recently discovered a grain called "spelt". I believe it is just about the closest grain to wheat in terms of how its flour behaves when you bake, but it is not close enough to wheat to cause my friend problems. I believe she has been quite successful at baking by simply substituting spelt flour for wheat flour, even in bread machine recipes. I'm not sure where you could find it - if you can't send me mail, and I'll ask and post the response. Dave W ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Oct 93 12:15:20 -0500 From: tripos!jupiter!kathy@uunet.UU.NET (Kathy Clark Jupiter1) Subject: Other bread-related mail exploders Message-ID: <9310251715.AA00560@jupiter.tripos> Does anyone know of any other bread-related mail exploders to which I might subscribe? Thanks in advance! Kathy Clark kathy@tripos.com ------------------------------ End of Bread Digest V4 #38 ****************************** Bread Digest Wed, 17 Nov 1993 Volume 4 : Issue 40 Today's Topics: Book recommendation Buying a bread maker. Cleaning interior of bread machine ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 17 Nov 1993 10:50:29 -0800 (PST) From: close@lunch.asd.sgi.com (Diane Barlow Close) Subject: Book recommendation Message-ID: <9311171850.AA12742@lunch.asd.sgi.com> I found this on rec.food.cooking: From: howard@locus.com (Howard Moskovitz) Subject: *** Great New Bread Machine Books (2) *** Date: Mon, 15 Nov 93 19:17:37 GMT I was out & about this weekend and found two new books that I think every bread machine owner should get. The first is also a must for anyone who has been thinking about buying a machine and has lots of questions - its a FAQ file in print! 1) "The Bread Machine Magic Book of Helpful Hints" Linda Rehberg & Lois Conway (c) 1993 St. Martin's Press $10.95 (US) The ladies who wrote "Bread Machine MAgic" are back with a new work that elaborates on how to use your machine, how to get the best results, how to troubleshoot problems. It includes a nice comarison of all the machines on the market including tips on how to get the best results from the machines. It also includes some recipes. A *must* for the owner or prospective buyer. 2) "Bread Machine Baking - Perfect Every Time" Lora Brody & Millie Apter (c) 1993 Morrow $20 (US) This is a spiral bound hardcover book with 75 recipes. What makes this book unique and possibly the best book for the new owner, is that each recipe is repeated, completely, for each set of machines that differ. For example a recipe will be repeated for Hitachi, Panasonic, Wellbilt/Dak, Zojirushi, etc. If two or more machines use the same recipe they are grouped together. The repeated recipes are complete with ingredients and instructions. I haven't tried the recipes yet so I can't give an opinion on their taste, but the explicitly repeated recipes should leave no question about how to make it in *your* machine. I think it also fives the best hard comaprison data yet if you're trying to develop your own recipes. Enjoy, Howard. -- Diane Barlow Close close@lunch.asd.sgi.com I'm at lunch today. :-) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 09 Nov 1993 13:55:11 EST From: pkt@canctr.mc.duke.edu Subject: Buying a bread maker. Message-ID: <00975490.82050560.129@canctr.mc.duke.edu> I apologise in advance if this question has been asked many times, but I have just discovered this list thanks to Diane Barlow. I am hoping for a bread machine for christmas and am wondering what is the best model. Specifically can anybody tell me what the West Bend one is like? It is the cheapest one that can make a large 1 1/2lb loaf and I presume it is made in the U.S.A Thank-you, Petra ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 Nov 93 21:08:13 -0800 From: John Whitmore Subject: Cleaning interior of bread machine Message-ID: <9311090508.AA04339@carson.u.washington.edu> jeq@lachman.com (Jonathan E. Quist) writes: [ replying to inquiry about using Easy-Off oven cleaner in a Welbilt bread machine} I don't know the Welbilt specifically, but the machines I looked at before buying all appeared to have a fair amount of stuff on the inside that I wouldn't trust caustic oven cleaner on. He's right. The main ingredient in most oven cleaners (all the old-fashioned types) is lye, which can dissolve aluminum quite handily. The tub and the bayonet-locking mounting mechanism contain aluminum. What I used was a solution of bicarbonate of soda in water; just paint it on the dirty spots, and bake a loaf of bread. Then rinse off the residue (a lot of the cruft will come off with it) and paint more solution on, and... bake a loaf of bread. I was able to get the most recalcitrant stuff off after three iterations. John Whitmore ------------------------------ End of Bread Digest V4 #40 ****************************** Bread Digest Thu, 25 Nov 1993 Volume 4 : Issue 41 Today's Topics: Amish Friendship Bread grain mills Question ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 18 Nov 93 07:53:40 EST From: DLJACK01@ukpr.uky.edu Subject: Amish Friendship Bread Can anyone out there send me a starter for the above? I'd appreciate it. Thanks in advance. ;) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Nov 1993 14:59:25 -0500 (EST) From: susans Subject: grain mills Message-ID: <931119145925.f04f@tiger.hsc.edu> I was wondering whether anyone has ever tried grinding their own grain. King Arthur advertises a manual grain mill which looks good, but I hear from friends that manual machines tend to take a long, long time and are sometimes very noisy. The electric mills seem rather expensive. I usually bake a couple of 1 1/2 lb loaves a week and tend towards the heavier, grainier breads. Any thoughts out there? Susans@tiger.hsc.edu ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Nov 93 17:46:01 -0500 From: dilhar@uu2.psi.com (protosoft) Subject: Question Message-ID: <9311222246.AA00661@uu2.psi.com> I remember reading here or in another group about a guy on CompuServe who advertised selling bread machines. It was to the benefit of a charity group and the cost was about $250. I can not participate in this group (bummer). However I would really appreciate hearing from any of you who can put me in touch with this Bread Machine Source. I would also be interested in looking at a bread machine FAQ and product review. If someone out here in bread/net land could email any information they have I would really appreciate the help! Thanks ! debra@protosoft.com "God, grant me this one wish....a newsfeed!" ------------------------------ End of Bread Digest V4 #41 ****************************** Bread Digest Sun, 12 Dec 1993 Volume 4 : Issue 43 Today's Topics: BREAD Digest V4 #42 Crust HELP! New bread blade? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 04 Dec 93 19:22:34 EST From: "Lee\\Lynn Lightfoot" <72730.1006@CompuServe.COM> Subject: BREAD Digest V4 #42 Message-ID: <931205002233_72730.1006_FHG60-1@CompuServe.COM> J.A. Wheeler..... re: Spaghetti Bread and liquid/dry order... I was always taught you should put the dry in first so that it does not ball up in the liquid because of surface tension. Try dropping some flour into a cup of water, and see how the flour sits on top of the water... then put some water into some flour and see how the water is dispursed into the flour! ** Lynn *:-) ------------------------------ Date: 3 Dec 1993 10:20:26 From: George Kavanagh O/o Subject: Crust Message-ID: Concerning Crust: I heat up a 4" x 4" X 1" block of steel on a burner for about 30 minutes till its 500-600 degrees F, place it in an old roasting pan (using tongs!), place the pan in the bottom of the hot oven, slide in the rizen bread, pour 24 oz of water into the roasting pan and close it all up. Great volumes of staem are generated, which: a) keep the dough's surface moist & elastic longer than without the steam, so that the bread rises higher, and b) creates a thin chewy crust. I remove the pan & remaining water after 15 min or so (Be careful, steam burns!) and let the bread finish cooking as normal. I usually make "freeform loaves" (i. e., baked on pizza tiles on an oven rack, without a bread pan) so that the crust is an "all over" thing. Julia Child recommends this method for "French Bread". She uses a common brick; I thought a brick might crack, and had the steel, so I use it. Enjoy! ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 Dec 1993 11:12:30 -0600 (CST) From: Mark Engelberg Subject: HELP! New bread blade? Message-ID: <9312061710.AA20734@gothamcity.jsc.nasa.gov> I own a DAK Turbo Baker IV. The other day, my significant other dropped the kneading blade of my bread machine into the garbage disposal. I need a replacement part, but as always seems to be the case with DAK, the part is on back order until February!!! I have heard that the DAK bread machine is similar to other machines such as the Hitachi. I would greatly appreciate any pointers to customer service/ordering departments of similarly constructed bread machines so that I can buy a kneading blade compatible with the Turbo Baker from another company. Thanks in advance for the suggestions, Mark Engelberg mle@gothamcity.jsc.nasa.gov ------------------------------ End of Bread Digest V4 #43 ****************************** Bread Digest Sun, 19 Dec 1993 Volume 4 : Issue 44 Today's Topics: BREAD Digest V4 #43 (2 msgs) Bread paddle replacement High Altitude Baking Needs replacement blade New Bread Blade ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 13 Dec 93 9:16:52 EST From: jane@apollo.hp.com Subject: Re: BREAD Digest V4 #43 > From: Mark Engelberg > > I have heard that the DAK bread machine is similar to other machines > such as the Hitachi. I would greatly appreciate any pointers to > customer service/ordering departments of similarly constructed bread > machines so that I can buy a kneading blade compatible with the Turbo > Baker from another company. > The DAK is most similar to Welbilt, so I'd try this avenue first. If you don't hear from someone on the net, you might go to some store that carries Welbilt and take a look at the literature that comes with the product. I used to be a DAK owner, but it died when we moved last year. My husband just bought me a Panasonic machine, and I'm wondering if any other Panasonic users have had good luck using recipes from the DAK cookbook? Jane Marcus jane@apollo.hp.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Dec 93 12:54 EST From: popcorn@cyberspace.org (Valerie Mates) Subject: Re: BREAD Digest V4 #43 Message-ID: > > Date: 04 Dec 93 19:22:34 EST > From: "Lee\\Lynn Lightfoot" <72730.1006@CompuServe.COM> > Subject: BREAD Digest V4 #42 > Message-ID: <931205002233_72730.1006_FHG60-1@CompuServe.COM> > > J.A. Wheeler..... > > re: Spaghetti Bread and liquid/dry order... I was always taught you should put > the dry in first so that it does not ball up in the liquid because of surface > tension. Try dropping some flour into a cup of water, and see how the flour > sits on top of the water... then put some water into some flour and see how > the water is dispursed into the flour! > > ** Lynn *:-) > Actually, whether to put in wet or dry ingredients first seems to depend on the brand of your breadmaker. I've got a Welbilt (same as a DAK) and the instructions say to always put the dry ingredients in first. Most other machines seem to want the wet ingredients first. More specifically, the Welbilt instructions say to put in the yeast first, then the rest of the dry ingredients, then the liquid ingredients. I think this is in case you are using the timer cycle, to keep the yeast dry until the machine is ready to start mixing and kneading. -Valerie ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Dec 93 9:55:03 EST From: fritz@ben.dev.upenn.edu (Katherine Fritz) Subject: Bread paddle replacement Message-ID: <9312131455.AA12223@ben.dev.upenn.edu> To Mark Engelberg: The DAK bread machines are practically twins of the Welbilt ABM-100. You might try calling Welbilt at 516-747-9595 (Warranty Service & Parts). Katie Fritz --------------------- Internet: fritz@ben.dev.upenn.edu CIS: 71257,3153 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Dec 93 09:57:43 -0800 From: Julia Rodriguez Subject: High Altitude Baking Message-ID: <9312151757.AA07549@hpclbis.cup.hp.com> We just purchased the Trillium Breadman as a present. Is anyone out there baking bread at high altitude? The first run of this breadmaker will be at 7000 ft. Are there modifications we should make to the recipes? Julia ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Dec 93 18:37:10 PST From: Renee@cup.portal.com Subject: Re: Needs replacement blade Message-ID: <9312141837.1.25901@cup.portal.com> Since Welbilt makes the machine, perhaps they may be of help to you? It is possible that there may be differences in the machine that DAK makes, but I think they are the same. Renee Roberts ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Dec 1993 06:32:39 -0600 (CST) From: "Michael L. Kaufman" Subject: New Bread Blade Message-ID: <199312131232.AA21590@delta.eecs.nwu.edu> > The other day, my significant other dropped the kneading blade of my > bread machine into the garbage disposal. I need a replacement part, > but as always seems to be the case with DAK, the part is on back order > until February!!! It is worse then you think. I have had one on order since August. Every month DAK sends me a letter saying 30 more days. When I got the letter saying that they were not expected to ship in Febuary, I called them and they said that the didn't know for sure when the paddle would ship and would I like to buy a new Breadmaker IV instead. If anyone knows of somewhere else to buy a paddle please post, as I have essentialy given up on DAK. Thanks, Michael ------------------------------ End of Bread Digest V4 #44 ****************************** Bread Digest Thu, 23 Dec 1993 Volume 4 : Issue 45 Today's Topics: Administrivia BREAD Digest V4 #44 HIGH ALTITIDE BAKING High Altitude Baking ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 23 Dec 1993 13:18:44 EST From: Jim Carey Subject: Administrivia Message-ID: <0097771E.B482BC20.2585@cykick.infores.com> This will be the last bread digest for this year. I'll be out next week, so the next one will be early in January. Have a happy New Year's. Jim ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Dec 93 9:04:14 EST From: jane@apollo.hp.com Subject: Re: BREAD Digest V4 #44 > From: Julia Rodriguez > Subject: High Altitude Baking > > We just purchased the Trillium Breadman as a present. Is anyone out there baking > bread at high altitude? The first run of this breadmaker will be at > 7000 ft. Are there modifications we should make to the recipes? We used to live at high altitude in Colorado and many recipes required some experimenting. We consistently added an extra tablespoon of liquid to all bread recipes, otherwise they came out too dry. We sometimes had problems with the middle of the bread being gooey, and the fix for this is to add 2 tablespoons of wheat gluten (which we got mail-order from DAK). The other problem was with sweet-type breads getting cooked too dark, even on the lightest setting, and we never did find a way to fix this problem. Now that we are at sea-level, we don't have any of these problems. Hope this helps! Jane Marcus jane@apollo.hp.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Dec 1993 9:10:17 -0700 (MST) From: FARLEY Subject: Re: HIGH ALTITIDE BAKING Message-ID: <931220091017.2040a005@WSC.COLORADO.EDU> Julia, I've been successfully using my Regal Deluxe breadmachine for a year now, with few adjustments for altitude (I like at 8700 ft.). Upon purchasing my machine, I contacted the Regal Bread Helpline and they suggested that I make no altitude adjustments. On the rare occasion that a loaf flops, I simply do ONE of the following the next time I use that particular recipe: 1)Use about 1/4t. less yeast, 2)Use about 1/2t. less "fat", or 3)Decrease liquid by about 1T. Good luck! Laurene lfarley@wsc.colorado.edu ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Dec 93 09:46:33 -0700 From: Lisa Stroyan Subject: Re: High Altitude Baking Message-ID: <9312201646.AA24461@vger.sde.hp.com> > Subject: High Altitude Baking > Is anyone out there baking > bread at high altitude? The first run of this breadmaker will be at > 7000 ft. Are there modifications we should make to the recipes? > Julia Yes, I am in Fort Collins, Colorado; I am not sure how high it is but over a mile anyway. If you have a "small" loaf setting as well as a large, make it first, because sometimes the altitude will cause the bread to overrise significantly and you will have a doughy mess with the larger loaf. If this ends up being your problem, you should decrease the yeast and/or water. I usually decrease the yeast by 1/4-1/2 tsp, for a machine that calls for 2 tsp, I use 1.5 or 1.75 tsp. But, lately I have not had to do this - I think it has something to do with the moisture in the air - and I need the full 2 tsp to make the bread rise. I highly recommend Bread Machine Magic; for some reason all of their recipes seem to work well in my machine, with the yeast requirements they say. I think that is because they were careful to get correct moisture content in the bread, which will also affect the rising. I believe they also have a good discussion of how salt regulates and moisture and sugar increase the growth of the yeast, which is helpful when figuring out how to use recipes designed for other machines. Good luck, Lisa ------------------------------ End of Bread Digest V4 #45 ******************************