Date: Sat, 17 Nov 1990 bread Digest Sat, 17 Nov 1990 Volume 1 : Issue 1 Today's Topics: Welcome to the bread-makers mailing list RECIPE: Dak's Onion-Dill bread recipe ------------------------------------------------------------ Subject: Welcome to the bread-makers mailing list Date: Sat, 17 Nov 90 16:13:33 PST From: jeff@onion.pdx.com Well, this is it. The bread-makers mailing list now has 56 members. I've been waiting to post an introductory message until the "add me too's" dropped off a bit. Anyway, here's some information for everyone. I will be archiving the list. It will be by volume/issue. This issue will start volume 1. If you ever need a back-issue, send email to the bread-request alias and I'll do my best. This list is going to be sent-out in digest format. Originally, I had planed to make things sent out as they were received, but when a couple of messages are being sent out, it creates a lot of uucp connections. Thus, I will be sending an issue out once a day, as long as there's something for it. I'm going to try to have "RECIPE:" at the start of each subject with a recipe in it. Other keywords will be invented as needed. :-) If you have any questions or problems with the list, please send them to me at bread-request. -Jeff - -- Jeff Beadles jeff@onion.pdx.com ------------------------------ Subject: RECIPE: Dak's Onion-Dill bread recipe Date: Sat, 17 Nov 90 16:22:37 PST From: jeff@onion.pdx.com This is the recipe in the DAK catalog with their breadmaker. We've made it a couple of times. It's a pretty decent bread. [ The DAK is the same as the Welbilt, and at $129 is a GREAT buy! -Jeff] 1 package of yeast 3 1/3 cups flour 1/4 cup warm water 3/4 cup cottage cheese 3/4 cup sour cream 3 tablespoons sugar 3 tablespoons minced onion 1 1/2 tablespoons butter 1 1/2 tablespoons dill seed 1 1/2 teaspoons salt 1/4 teaspoon baking powder 1 egg Just dump them in in that order, and press "play" :-) -Jeff - -- Jeff Beadles jeff@onion.pdx.com ------------------------------ End of bread Digest [Volume 1 Issue 1] ************************************** bread Digest Monday, 19 Nov 1990 Volume 1 : Issue 2 Today's Topics: A note from your friendly list maintainer RE: Doneness of bread Re: Doneness of bread (Dave Polakowski) ------------------------------------------------------------ From: "Jeff Beadles" Subject: A note from your friendly list maintainer Note: I'm not sure if these two messages were reflected to the list, so this might be a repeat. If so, I'm sorry, but twice is better than not at all :-) Also, it's Recipe time! Send in your favorites! -Jeff Jeff Beadles jeff@onion.pdx.com ------------------------------ From: Time for a corporate enema Subject: RE: Doneness of bread I don't think cooking time or temperature is your problem. I've had this problem from time to time (and continue to have it from time to time). The most important factors are correct liquid to flour ratio, temperature of ingredients, and freshness of the yeast. Humidity is also a big factor but requires more guesswork than the others. There are guidelines in the recipe booklet for alterations to the ingredients to compensate for different humidity conditions. I've found that if the setup is done properly, the dough will rise properly and not look like a little bowling ball just prior to baking. Then the loaf cooks properly and is done in the center. I takes some practice. We still screw up every now and then, particularly with new or complex recipes. One little trick that's worked for us is to add a little more liquid and a little more yeast than what is called for in the recipe to "get a rise" out of your dough. Good luck and don't give up! /sdd ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Nov 90 09:58:18 MST From: tessi!uunet!Solbourne.COM!polo (Dave Polakowski) Subject: Re: Doneness of bread Pete --- Might be a defective unit. My sister and I went together and bought a DAK unit for my folks for Christmas last year, and it couldn't be turned down far enough to NOT burn the bread. They finally sent it back and got a replace- ment unit, and this one works like it's supposed to. I'd contact Welbilt's service center and ask them about repair or replacement. It should certainly still be under warranty. _-^-_ | Dave Polakowski (303)678-4700 / O O \ | Solbourne Computer, Inc. ---((((---'---U---`---))))--- | Longmont, Colorado DAVE WAS HERE! | [polo@Solbourne.COM] ------------------------------ End of bread Digest [Volume 1 Issue 2] ************************************** bread Digest Tuesday, 20 Nov 1990 Volume 1 : Issue 3 Today's Topics: Some recipes and some ramblings Request for YOUR comments about YOUR Breadmaker ------------------------------------------------------------ From: tessi!uunet!tc.fluke.COM!ardyk (Ardy Kong) Date: Mon, 19 Nov 90 08:17:29 PST Subject: Request for YOUR comments about YOUR Breadmaker I'm interested in obtaining a breadmaker and would appreciate if you would tell me about your breadmaker- if it makes good bread, etc. Would you recommend your breadmaker? Would you buy it knowing what you know about it now? The breadmakers I've 'looked" at are: Welbilt (1 lb) square model Welbilt - the 'dome' model Regal Hitachi Williams-Sonoma (1 and 1-1/2 lb models, I have their catalog). Please email your responses as I think this may have been hashed out elsewhere. Thanks. Ardy [ Andy- Please forward a copy of your summary, and I'll post it to the list and archive it for others. -Jeff] ------------------------------ From: tessi!dad.MENTOR.COM!garryt (Garry Thompson) Date: Tue, 20 Nov 90 10:28:51 PST Subject: Some recipes and some ramblings I have owned my bread machine (Welbilt) for about 2 years now and my only complaint is that it makes round bread. This does make for strange sandwhiches. The number one factor that seems to infleunce rising and baking is the moisture content of the bread. I almost always am around when I start the bread to make sure the moisture content is correct. Humidity and temperature variances really do make a difference. One thing I like to experiment with when I make bread is using different types of oil. I really like using peanut oil in almost all the breads I make, except for pizza dough where I use olive oil. I also use 1/3 to 1/2 whole wheat flour in almost all recipes with no adverse side effects. Here are several recipes from the DAK cookbook that I have used and really liked. I also have my liquid at 100 degrees. What I do is put the measuring cup in the microwave with the probe and set it to 100. This is easy and takes out the geuss work. I have one question for people out there about toasting the bread. It seems there is no way not to burn the crust when you toast it. I really like toasted bread but not real thrilled about burnt crust, any suggestions? Sorry for all the rambling put I was home sick today and got bored :-) Peanut Butter Bread 1 package yeast 3 cups bread flour 1/4 cup brown sugar packed 1/2 cup chunky peanut butter 1-1/4 cups very warm water Oatmeal Bread 1 package yeast 1 cup rolled oats, whirred in blender 3 cups bread flour 1 Tablespoon sugar 1 teaspoon salt 1 Tablespoon soft butter 1-1/4 - 1-3/4 cups warm water Wheat and Honey Bread 1 package yeast 3/4 cup whole wheat flour 2-1/2 cups whole wheat flour 1 teaspoon salt 2 Tablespoons honey 2 Tablespoons butter 1 egg 1 cup plus 1 Tablespoon water I just made this bread using peanut oil instead of butter and it probably is one of the best breads I've made. It had good flavor and great texture. It sliced very well and didn't fall apart like the bread can sometimes. Basic Pizza Dough (From the book Pizza) 1 tablespoon granulated sugar 1 cup warm water 1 envelope active dry yeast 3-1/4 cups bread, semolina, or unbleached all-purpose flour (I like to use 1/2 bread 1/2 semolina) 1 teaspoon salt 1/4 cup olive oil, preferable extra-virgin What I like to do is make up the sauce the night before and set the timer to have the dough ready when I get home after work. Then it's a fairly quick and simple task to make the pizza for dinner. ------------------------------ End of bread Digest [Volume 1 Issue 3] ************************************** Issue 04 did not exist. This is just a place-holder in case someone asks for 1-5 or something. -Jeff Beadles ************************************** bread Digest Saturday, 24 Nov 1990 Volume 1 : Issue 5 Today's Topics: Bibliography of bread maker recipes RECIPES Austrailian Bread and Teff Bread (1&2 of 7) ------------------------------------------------------------ From: tessi!hpupora!sun!portal!cup.portal.com!amy Subject: bibliography of bread maker recipes Date: Sat, 24 Nov 90 14:42:31 PST I would like to compile a bibliography of bread maker recipe collections. So far I know about and have the following: 1. "Loafing It: 58 Easy to Make Bread Recipes; the 1989 Guide to Automatic Bread Making," advertising booklet from DAK Industries, Incorporated. 2. "Narsai's Bread Recipes for the Automatic Bread Bakery," a collection of 7 recipes from KCBS San Francisco radio personality Narsai David. 3. "The Bread Machine," recipe booklet packed with the Welbilt bread maker. Please let me know what other collections you have and I will add them to the list and re-post. I've seen comments from other posters alluding to a new collection or two from DAK. One problem is that most of these publications can't be bought (I would if I could). I'm hoping that by compiling this bibliography we can promote a wider exchange of these recipes via the bread mailing list. Do most people have the original DAK collection? It seems that the latest DAK collection is harder to come by. I'm planning to post the Narsai David recipes to the bread mailing list, a couple at a time. I believe these recipes are less widely distributed (I sent for them after hearing about them on the radio program). Amy@cup.portal.com ------------------------------ From: tessi!hpupora!sun!portal!cup.portal.com!amy Subject: RECIPES: Austrailian Bread and Teff Bread (1&2 of 7) Date: Sat, 24 Nov 90 14:47:20 PST These are recipes 1 and 2 (of 7) from the sheet put out by Narsai David. He is a KCBS (740 AM) San Francisco radio personality, and his food show is broadcast week nights at 7 pm. He also does the KCBS Saturday Kitchen at 10 am. The station has a very strong signal, so during the winter after the change to daylight savings time I can hear the evening program in Los Angeles (it comes in better in the car than the house). Austrailian Bread 1/2 cup rye flour or oat flour 2 cups bread flour or all-purpose flour 4 tablespoons cracked wheat 1 teaspoon salt 4 tablespoons flax seeds, lightly toasted 2 tablespoons sesame seeds, lightly toasted 1 tablespoon malt or molasses 1 tablespoon oil 1 cup water 1-1/2 teaspoons dry yeast Teff Bread Teff is a very tasty grain used for thousands of years in Ethiopia. It is easily the tiniest grain I have ever seen and adds a delicious character to bread. 2-1/4 cups bread flour or all-purpose flour 3/4 cup teff grains or flour (if both are available, try using some flour and some whole grain. The total amount should still be 3/4 cup.) 1 teaspoon salt 1 tablespoon malt 1 tablespoon oil 1 cup water 1-1/2 teaspoons dry yeast When set on a 13-hour cycle, the center collapses and makes a very dense loaf. Variation: 2-1/4 cup flour 1/4 cup poppy seed } excellent loft 1/4 cup bran 1/4 cup millet ------------------------------ End of bread Digest [Volume 1 Issue 5] ************************************** bread Digest Tuesday, 27 Nov 1990 Volume 1 : Issue 6 Today's Topics: couple-o-tips (Robin Rosenberg) ------------------------------------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Nov 90 12:28:52 -0800 From: robinr@pyramid.com (Robin Rosenberg) Subject: couple-o-tips For those of you who are familiar with the DAK Onion-Dill bread recipe (reprinted in digest Volume 1 Issue 1), you might want to try a variation that I like a lot better: substitute dill WEED for the dill seed. It not only has a much stronger herb taste, but the green flecks in the dough are pretty. In the DAK book, I've noticed that most of the fruit breads (like banana and blueberry) don't taste much like the fruit to me. (Perhaps that's because I was raised on banana quick bread, which is more like cake.) I have successfully added 4 bananas (the original recipe called for 2) without it becoming like lead. (For my taste, about 3.5 bananas would be best, but I never felt like eating that last 1/2 a banana, so in it went.) I have also successfully substituted egg substitute (e.g. Egg Beaters) for the eggs, with no adverse effects. (And my picky husband can't tell by the taste or appearance!) Happy bread making, everyone! Robin Rosenberg (robinr@pyramid.com) ------------------------------ End of bread Digest [Volume 1 Issue 6] ************************************** bread Digest Thursday, 29 Nov 1990 Volume 1 : Issue 7 Today's Topics: recipes and a request (Jan Cranny) ------------------------------------------------------------ From: tessi!uunet!mailrus!uflorida!rm1!jan (Jan Cranny) Subject: recipes and a request Date: Wed, 28 Nov 90 12:59:58 EDT These two recipes are taken from "Blue Ribbon Breads", by May Ward and Carol Stine, published by Hodgson Mill. The recipes are for 2 cup bread makers - but I've adjusted them for 3 cups. Both turned out good. Does anyone have a recipe for Sweet potatoe bread ???? Hot Jalapeno Bread 1 package yeast 3 Cups Bread flour 3 tblsp chopped Japapeno peppers ( or to taste ) 1/2 cup Monterey Jack cheese 1 1/2 tblsp sugar 1 1/2 tsp salt 1 1/4 cups water (adjust to your needs ) throw in and bake Buckwheat Applesauce Bread 1 package yeast 3/8 cup Buckwheat flour 2 5/8 bread flour 3/4 cup applesauce 1 1/2 tblsp veg oil 1 1/2 tsp salt 3/4 cup of water ( adjust to your needs ) throw in and bake Jan _____________________________________________________________________________ Jan Cranny jan@rm1.uu.net OR ...uunet!rm1!jan MS E-112, PO Box 407044, Racal-Milgo, Ft Lauderdale, FL 33340 (305) 846-6854 ------------------------------ End of bread Digest [Volume 1 Issue 7] ************************************** bread Digest Friday, 30 Nov 1990 Volume 1 : Issue 8 Today's Topics: Pizza Dough (Bellas) ------------------------------------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Nov 90 13:46:18 PST From: bellas@gamma.tti.com (Bellas) Subject: Pizza Dough I have been experimenting with pizza dough in my welbilt. Here is my current recipe (as always subject to change :-). 1 package yeast 3 cups all purpose flour (I don't use bread flour for this) 1 1/4 cups warm water 1/2 tsp minced garlic 1 tsp salt 2 tbls olive oil I only single rise my pizza dough (that is I let the machine mix and knead and then I remove the ball to rise in a glass dish). What other methods do you use (I seem to have trouble with the manual setting on mine, it kneads forever, or so it seems). What other things have you done with yours on manual or interupted settings. Any good recipes for dinner rolls out there?! -Pete- ------------------------------ End of bread Digest [Volume 1 Issue 8] ************************************** bread Digest Monday, 3 Dec 1990 Volume 1 : Issue 9 Today's Topics: If you have 2 cup flour recipe version, post with 3 cup version ------------------------------------------------------------ From: uunet!att!iwtdw!cmf2 Subject: If you have 2 cup flour recipe version, post with 3 cup version Date: Fri, 30 Nov 90 11:56:25 -0500 Just a request...one of the recent postings had two recipes that were originally 2 cups (of flour) converted to 3 cups. In the future, if the 2 cup version is still available please also post it. It would save those of us who are bad at conversions (calculus destroyed my math abilities) from having to do them. Thanks much. Cathy ------------------------------ End of bread Digest [Volume 1 Issue 9] ************************************** bread Digest Wednesday, 5 Dec 1990 Volume 1 : Issue 10 Today's Topics: buckwheat and rye breads (recipes 3,4&5 of 7) Gooey hole in center of loaf ------------------------------------------------------------ From: tessi!hpupora!sun!portal!cup.portal.com!amy Subject: buckwheat and rye breads (recipes 3,4&5 of 7) Here are three more recipes from the Narsai David sheet (recipes 3, 4, and 5 of 7). Buckwheat Millet Bread 2-1/3 cups bread flour or all purpose flour 1/3 cup buckwheat flour 1/3 cup millet seeds 1 tablespoon malt 1 teaspoon salt 1 cup water 1-1/2 teaspoon dry yeast Strass Rye Bread 1 cup rye flour (or substitute oat flour) 1-1/2 cups bread flour or all purpose flour 1/4 cup cracked wheat 1 tablespoon molasses 1 egg 1 tablespoon oil grated zest of 1/2 orange 1 teaspoon salt 2 teaspoons fennel or anise seeds 1/2 cup water 1/2 cup buttermilk 1-1/2 teaspoon dry yeast Light Rye 3/4 cup rye flour (or substitute oat flour) 2 cups bread flour or all purpose flour 1 teaspoon salt 1-1/2 tablespoons caraway seeds 1 tablespoon malt or molasses 1 tablespoon oil 1 cup water 1-1/2 teaspoon dry yeast Note: to make a dense, fairly heavy loaf, increase the rye flour to 1 cup. ------------------------------ From: bruceb@lccsd.sd.locus.com (Bruce M. Binder) Subject: Gooey hole in center of loaf Hello breadsters: Sometimes, when I make bread from a recipe in the DAK book, I get a hole in the center of the loaf that is uncooked and gooey. Has anyone else had this problem? Is there a way to correct it? More flour? Less yeast? Less liquid? Any suggestions would be appreciated. ___ __ __ ___ ( ,)( \/ )( ,) Bruce M. Binder ) ,\ ) ( ) ,\ Locus Computing Corporation (619) 587-0511 (___/(_/\/\_)(___/ San Diego, California bruceb@locus.com ------------------------------ End of bread Digest [Volume 1 Issue 10] *************************************** bread Digest Friday, 7 Dec 1990 Volume 1 : Issue 11 Today's Topics: Bread Machines responses ardyk@tc.fluke.COM (Ardy Kong) ------------------------------------------------------------ From: tessi!uunet!tc.fluke.COM!ardyk (Ardy Kong) Subject: Bread Machines responses Date: Thu, 6 Dec 90 09:32:20 PST >I'm interested in obtaining a breadmaker and >would appreciate if you would tell me about >your breadmaker- if it makes good bread, etc. > >Would you recommend your breadmaker? Would >you buy it knowing what you know about it now? > >The breadmakers I've 'looked" at are: >Welbilt (1 lb) square model >Welbilt - the 'dome' model >Regal >Hitachi >Williams-Sonoma (1 and 1-1/2 lb models, > I have their catalog). > Here are the responses I got on bread machines. *************************************************************** >From: garryt@dad.MENTOR.COM (Garry Thompson) >Date: Tue, 20 Nov 90 10:28:51 PST >Subject: Some recipes and some ramblings I have owned my bread machine (Welbilt) for about 2 years now and my only complaint is that it makes round bread. This does make for strange sandwhiches. The number one factor that seems to infleunce rising and baking is the moisture content of the bread. I almost always am around when I start the bread to make sure the moisture content is correct. Humidity and temperature variances really do make a difference. .... ***************************************************************** >From: JMH@SLACVM.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU >Date: 13 Nov 90 18:20:50 GMT I have been using one of the cheaper Welbilt bread machines for about 5 months now. It cost ^$100 at Service Merchandise. It makes great bread although their recipe calls for much too much salt (IMHO). The loaves are round, and not easy to slice. It is inappropriate for sandwiches but makes tasty toast. I feel it was a good investment, it sure is nice to wake up in the AM to the smell of fresh-baked bread. Jim Hodgers ****************************************************************** >Date: Tue, 27 Nov 90 16:37:07 PST >From: anilam@Eng.Sun.COM (Anissa Lam) Ardy, We almost got the Welbeit 350 bread maker a week ago, but decided not to buy it at the last minute. I notice the 'pan' which holds the bread actually has a round hole on the bottom. This means that i have to place the pan in the bread maker first, then put the ingredients in. And the space between the maker itself and the pan is quite big. This means that the bread machine will get dirty quite easily. I decided to buy another brand (haven't decided yet) instead. The one i liked is the Pansonic bread machine. The pan can be taken out, put all the ingredients in and then put back to the machine. I may not explain this very well, but hope you will understand that if you are looking at the machine. ... ********************************************************************* >Date: Wed, 28 Nov 90 09:25:58 EST >From: Fred Ullom I bought a Welbilt cheapy bread maker for $129. Works great. You have to get used to the round loaf, though. If you buy a DAK, you get a nice recipe book with it. Once you get the hang of it, you can be creative and throw anything into your loaf. Great fun....Good bread ********************************************************************** >From: erspert@ATHENA.MIT.EDU >Date: Fri, 30 Nov 90 11:30:03 -0500 I got a bread machine a little less than two months ago and love it, as do all my friends. I usually have some sort of fresh bread in the house. Even with just two people living in my apartment, we always finish breads while they're still fresh, plus I've tried freezing and unfreezing bread, and it still tastes great. I've had no trouble making the "vanilla" breads, like French bread, and the fancier ones like orange chocolate chip bread and onion dill bread. Some can be made in five minutes by just dumping in the ingredients, and others require a little work, like whipping egg whites. The only problem is that if you're not there to take the bread out of the machine when it's done, it can get a little soggy. Our machine has a timer, which minimizes this problem. I'd say that the bread machine to get is the Auto Bakery sold by DAK. I bought it for $200, and they've just cut the price to $130, which is better than any prices I've seen in stores. One benefit of buying from DAK is that they send you additional recipes. Between the low price and the additional recipes, I would strongly recommend DAK. I can give you their address or phone number if you need them (plus, it's a fun catalog to get). If you really want to save money, in the latest catalog they've announced that they'll begin selling returned but all right items for even less. Ellen Spertus >Date: Wed, 28 Nov 90 06:33:52 GMT >From: dbw@crash.cts.com (David B. Whiteman) The machine I have is a National Breadmaker. National is the brand name of Panasonic inside Japan; however, Panasonic sells their kitchen products in the US under both brand names. I wish I could tell you that I went to a great effort in selecting the perfect bread maker, but this machine was a prize for watching a cooking demonstration in a shopping mall. I strongly suggest rather than soliciting comments via the net you just go to gourmet cooking stores, and just try out the bread the machines make. I think it is fantastic, but I would not call myself a gourmet critic. All my friends at work gobble down the bread over any other goodies that anyone else brings. I have used the machine 5 times The first three times I used "bread mix" that the gourmet place gave with the machine -- a 3rd party bread mix designed for machines -- open the packet, add water, and pour the yeast into the dispenser. The other times I just made the basic white bread. Each time I was impressed with the results, and the bread was better than my home attempts at making bread from scratch or using frozen store bought dough. I have not used any of the other recipes. This machine has a timer, so you can set the machine for when you want the bread ready. It also has a quick mode which skips the punch down and second rising, and a dough mode which just makes yeast dough from which you can make other stuff from. It also has a light crust mode. The recipe book is extensive. This machine when you use the timer mode immediately mixes the dough without adding the yeast, and then waits for the appropriate period before you want the bread ready, and then adds the yeast and proceeds from there. Other makers don't do any mixing at all until the timer says it is time to make bread -- I don't know which is better. One other thing: midway through the cycle the bread machine makes a loud noise which was loud enough to wake me in another room with the door closed -- this is the punch down between the two risings. I hope this info is useful David >Date: Sat, 1 Dec 90 11:49:34 PST >From: (Jeff C. Glover) I have the DAK bread machine, and have used it for about six months now. It makes great bread, is very easy to use, and has removable elements for easy cleaning. Problems? None I can think of other than it takes four hours to make the bread and I don't want to wait that long. :-) The instruction manual is more than sufficient, and the unit makes larger loafs than most of the other brands. I've seen it discounted at $150, but not recently. Jeff ------------------------------ End of bread Digest [Volume 1 Issue 11] *************************************** bread Digest Thursday, 13 Dec 1990 Volume 1 : Issue 12 Today's Topics: Bread Machine Responses (Toni Arnold) tarnold@SU1B.ess.harris.com Recipes (Jim Blue) blue@azure.cam.nist.gov Re: gooey hole in center of loaf amy@cup.portal.com Recipes: thai rice and pumpernickel(6&7 of 7) amy@cup.portal.com ------------------------------------------------------------ From: tarnold@SU1B.ess.harris.com (Toni Arnold) Subject: Bread Machine Responses This may be a little late but better late than ... We purchased a Hitachi machine a few weeks ago and are very pleased with the choice. Although it was one of the more expensive machines ($199 at Lurias) I liked the fact that it had a square loaf pan and makes a 1 lb. 3 oz. loaf which is close in size to store bought. It has settings for regular bread, rapid bread, mix bread (for adding ingredients) and dough. It also has a setting for light, medium and dark crust. It has a timer which allows you to put ingredients in at night for A.M. bread wake-up call (Wonderful!). I've been able to adapt different bread recipes for this machine easily by keeping the ratio of dry to wet ingredients the same. All in all, after months of deliberating over which machine to buy I'm 99.9% pleased. The 0.1% displeasure is due to the fact that the machine has what my husband calls a "polite" beep and I would prefer one just a little bit louder - but this is something I can live with. Hope this helps, Toni ------------------------------ From: blue@azure.cam.nist.gov (Jim Blue) Subject: Recipes Date: Tue, 11 Dec 90 09:31:46 EST I've had my DAK bread maker for over a year now. Here are a few of my favorite recipes: Masa Bread 1 pkg yeast 1 tsp salt 1 Tbsp sugar 1/2 Cup masa harina 2 1/2 Cup bread flour 2 Tbsp nonfat dry milk powder 1 Tbsp oil 1 3/8 Cup very warm water (exact quantity depends on humidity, etc.) This goes especially well with chili. For variety, try adding 1 or 2 teaspoons of cumin and/or chili powder. Note: masa harina is available in the flour section of many grocery stores, certainly in any Latin-American grocery. * * * * * Oatmeal Bourbon Bread 1 pkg yeast 1 Cup rolled oats (plain old Quaker Oats from the cylindrical box) 3 Cup bread flour 1 tsp salt 2 Tbsp sugar 1 Tbsp nonfat dry milk powder 2 Tbsp bourbon whiskey 1 1/4 Cup very warm water The original recipe, whose source is lost, had Irish Cream instead of the nonfat milk and bourbon. * * * * * Rosemary Garlic Bread (adapted from Bernard Clayton's _Complete Book of Bread_, p. 464) 1 pkg yeast 1 Cup whole wheat flour 2 Cup unbleached flour 1 tsp salt 1 tsp freshly ground pepper 2 Tbsp oil 1 1/2 tsp minced garlic in oil, or 1 - 2 cloves of crushed fresh garlic 1 Tbsp dried parsley 1 tsp dried rosemary 1 1/2 tsp dried oregano 1 1/4 Cup very warm water - -- Jim Blue Center for Computing and Applied Mathematics National Institute of Standards and Technology ------------------------------ From: amy@cup.portal.com Subject: re: gooey hole in center of loaf Date: Wed, 12 Dec 90 20:00:16 PST bruceb@lccsd.sd.locus.com (Bruce M. Binder) writes: > Sometimes, when I make bread from a recipe in the DAK book, I > get a hole in the center of the loaf that is uncooked and > gooey. Has anyone else had this problem? Is there a way to > correct it? More flour? Less yeast? Less liquid? I've experienced this problem also, especially with heavier, moister mixtures like banana bread. Some things I've tried that help are: 1. Always use some harder unbleached bread flour because it has a higher gluten content (the bag is usually labeled something like 'best for bread'). 2. Watch the dough during the initial mixing and don't be afraid to add more flour if it looks too moist. The dough is too moist if it doesn't seem to quickly form a ball. (I love the glass dome feature -- it's fun to observe all stages of the baking process.) 3. Cut down the proportions of the recipe a bit and make a slightly smaller loaf, so all the dough has a better chance of baking. Some of my worst disaste rs have been when the loaf went way over the top of the baking pan. 4. If all else fails, pull out the gooey part and enjoy the rest of the loaf anyway. ------------------------------ From: Subject: recipes: thai rice and pumpernickel (6&7 of 7) Date: Wed, 12 Dec 90 20:03:00 PST Recipes 6 & 7 of 7 from the Narsai David sheet: Thai Rice Black Bread 6 tablespoons black rice 1 cup water 1/2 cup rye, oat or whole wheat flour 2 cups bread flour or all purpose flour 1 tablespoon malt or molasses 1 teaspoon salt 1-1/2 teaspoon fennel or anise seeds 1 teaspoon caraway seed 1-1/2 teaspoons cumin seed 1 tablespoon oil 1-1/2 teaspoons dry yeast Simmer rice in water until just tender. COol and pour into transparent measure. Add water to bring the total measure up to 11 ounces. Add to mixing bowl with the remaining ingredients except the yeast. Place yeast in proper place according to the directions for your machine. Light Pumpernickel 1 cup rye meal or rye flour 1-1/2 cups bread flour or all purpose flour 1/2 cup cracked wheat 1 teaspoon salt 2 tablespoons molasses 1 tablespoon oil 1 cup water 1-1/2 teaspoons dry yeast ------------------------------ End of bread Digest [Volume 1 Issue 12] *************************************** Volume 1 Issue 13 did not exist. Volume 1 Issue 14 was an address change only - removed. *************************************** bread Digest Monday, 14 Jan 1991 Volume 1 : Issue 15 Today's Topics: silence out here Welbilt Gary Fritz ------------------------------------------------------------ From: dee@lamont.ldgo.columbia.edu Subject: silence out here yes, i thought i'd been dropped from the mailing list for lack of participation! i thought surely there would be much post-holiday traffic as everyone tried out their new toys! perhaps everyone, like myself, is on the multi-week waiting list for the low-priced DAK's? has anyone heard if the shortage is being filled and the list is shortening? ------------------------------ Subject: Welbilt From: Gary Fritz > P.S. It's kinda quiet out there! It sure is! This is the first message I've gotten from the list since I signed up 4 weeks ago! C'mon, folks, surely SOMEbody has something useful to contribute... Myself, I haven't been using our machine much because just about every loaf I make lately comes out gooey in the middle. Heavy breads, and the DAK lemon bread (wonderful!) have been especially bad. I looked through the bread archives and saw the suggestions from Bruce Binder (thanks!) but that didn't solve my problem. Partly because Bruce suggests watching the bread to see if you need to add more flour, and I usually make bread with the timer -- i.e. I'm not there when it starts mixing. Can anyone explain the causes of this problem a bit better? Is it caused only by the dough being too wet, or does baking time/whatever affect it, or whatever? Could being at 5000' affect it? I'm using bread flour, and when I'm around to watch the dough it seems to be about the right consistency, and it usually rises just about as much as you'd want. But the last few times I made lemon bread, it was so gooey that I was only able to get a total of about 1 edible slice (in many small pieces) out of the whole loaf. And that's a tragedy!! Possibly related issue: Since I got it, our machine has tended to run hot. The crust would get too brown unless I turned the control ALL the way over to "light". Could this be causing the bread to bake too quickly and not heat the loaf all the way through? I don't know if the Welbilt is smart enough to adjust its baking time for different heats, or if it just bakes for a preset amount of time. If the latter, the too-dark crust shouldn't cause gooey centers -- just the opposite. I decided it was time to send the thing back for repair or replacement. Looking in the owner's manual, it said to "look at the enclosed list of repair centers or call Welbilt." Well, there WASN'T any enclosed list. I've been trying to get through to Welbilt for the past 3 hours. Once they finally answered their phone, and put me on hold for 10 minutes, they said "The person who knows about the bread machine is on another line right now. Let me take your name and she'll call you as soon as she gets off the phone." That was 2 hours ago. Has anyone had any luck calling Welbilt? Do you have the list of repair centers, and if so, what's the nearest one to Ft. Collins, 1 hr north of Denver, CO? Thanks! Gary ------------------------------ End of bread Digest [Volume 1 Issue 15] *************************************** bread Digest Wednesday, 16 Jan 1991 Volume 1 : Issue 16 Today's Topics: gluten (Arlene Osborne) Re: gooey holes in center (Bruce M. Binder) DAK vs Panasonic (Bill Stoll) ------------------------------------------------------------ From: a.m.osborne@angate.att.com Subject: gluten Hi there! I'm still not sure how to get mail to you Jeff, so I hope this works. I would like to try the oat bread recipes listed in the DAK recipe book and am trying to find a source of gluten. I recently went to a health food store and asked the woman for "gluten" and she sold me a 1 pound bag marked "high gluten flr". I was almost expecting a liquid. Did I get the right thing or is this just another bread flour? If it isn't what I need, what should I be looking for? Arlene Osborne [ You can send email to "bread@onion.rain.com" or "...!uunet!onion.rain.com!bread" Mail to "bread@onion.pdx.com" will still be accepted for a while before that domain is dropped. - Jeff ] ------------------------------ From: bruceb@lccsd.sd.locus.com (Bruce M. Binder) Subject: Re: gooey holes in center > Myself, I haven't been using our machine much because just about > every loaf I make lately comes out gooey in the middle. Heavy > breads, and the DAK lemon bread (wonderful!) have been especially > bad. I looked through the bread archives and saw the suggestions > from Bruce Binder (thanks!) but that didn't solve my problem. I was the one who posted the problem, not the suggestion and I still have not been able to get it to work reliably. I have tried adjusting the recipe and the crust setting to no avail. I think maybe the heavy bread just needs more cooking time and the machine can't do it. > Could being at 5000' affect it? I have the problem at 20'. > Has anyone had any luck calling Welbilt? I would be _very_ interested in what you find out from Welbilt. I haven't tried to call yet because I am still experimenting. Could you please post to this mailing list when (if) you find out something? > Thanks! > Gary ___ __ __ ___ ( ,)( \/ )( ,) Bruce M. Binder (619) 587-0511 ) ,\ ) ( ) ,\ Locus Computing Corporation bruceb@locus.com (___/(_/\/\_)(___/ San Diego, California ...!ucsd!lccsd!bruceb ------------------------------ From: wws@cblph.att.com Subject: DAK vs Panasonic I bought a DAK bread maker about 8 months after the first round of price cuts (I paid about $180). I owned a Panasonic which produced excellent bread, but wanted bigger loaves and liked the idea of the glass top so I could watch what happens. I just wanted to make basic whole wheat bread. When I bought the DAK, I gave the Panasonic to a friend. I've been very unhappy with DAK and the bread maker. The bread maker came without the recipe book, so I tried some basic whole wheat recipes that worked fine in the Panasonic. They hardly rose at all, and the resulting bread was pretty disgusting. I figured I needed to use the DAK recipe book, so... I tried calling the 800 number for DAK support. I tried off and on for a week, different times of day, about 10-15 attempts. The phone was busy every time except for two. The first time there was no answer after 20 rings so I figured I had dialed the wrong number or there was nobody there. The second time, a few days later, I let it ring for about 20 minutes. While letting it ring, I wrote them a nasty letter (I'd already written them a nice one). I finally received the recipe book, but received no other acknowledgement of my letters. I thumbed through the recipe book, and there aren't any recipes that just include your basic stone ground whole wheat flour. Their "whole wheat" bread is mostly white flour. I haven't experimented with the thing since about July since there is a wonderful bakery in Lexington KY (Great Harvest), and I've visited Lexington enough to keep bread stocked in my freezer. (Try the herb wheat or sunflower whole wheat if you go to Great Harvest.) There are a couple things I notice that, I believe, make the Panasonic bread maker superior to the DAK. First, the yeast is kept separate from the rest of the ingredients in the Panasonic until kneading time. Perhaps it heats itself to optimal yeast-growing temperature before adding the yeast? I don't know. But I think this is a superior method, especially for me since I like to tell the thing to start 4 hours after I go to bed, and I don't trust the yeast and water together in the DAK for 4 hours before kneading. Well, when I tried it, the bread was n.g. Also, the little blade in the DAK whirs continuously once the thing is activated. For the first five minutes or so in the Panasonic, the blade spins a bit and stops a bit. I think this probably is a better simulation of human kneading. Just seems more logical to me. Anyway, I think the Panasonic produced a good loaf more consistently than my 3-4 trials with the DAK. I will experiment more when I run out of Great Harvest :-) I don't know if Panasonic's customer support is better because I've never had to call them. If anyone has a basic whole wheat bread recipe that works well in the DAK, I'd sure like to hear it! I'd like to use honey instead of sugar, btw... Bill Stoll att!cblph!wws ------------------------------ End of bread Digest [Volume 1 Issue 16] *************************************** bread Digest Thursday, 17 Jan 1991 Volume 1 : Issue 17 Today's Topics: Re: gooey bread Gary Fritz Recipes - French and Light Wheat (Bellas) ------------------------------------------------------------ From: Gary Fritz Subject: Re: gooey bread > > Has anyone had any luck calling Welbilt? > > I would be _very_ interested in what you find out from Welbilt. I > haven't tried to call yet because I am still experimenting. Could > you please post to this mailing list when (if) you find out > something? After trying a few times (the "bread machine" person was supposedly continuously returning calls like mine) I got ahold of Welbilt, and was sort of underwhelmed. The person on the other end didn't seem overly helpful or competent, in my opinion. She suggested placing a piece of aluminum foil, shiny side down, on top of the glass dome to help hold in the heat. She also said to try reducing the water to 1 cup, and add up to 3 Tsp water if the machine was "laboring". Hell, my machine nearly ALWAYS "labors". It's not unusual for the dough blade to *stop* for 4-5 seconds at a time before it bulls its way through the dough. I haven't had a chance to try this yet. I'll report back when I have time to experiment -- in the meanwhile, if Bruce or others try it, let us know how it turns out! Re: inability to get any help from DAK 800 number I suggest calling Welbilt. While they aren't great, they WILL answer the phone and eventually get back to you. > There are a couple things I notice that, I believe, make the Panasonic > bread maker superior to the DAK. First, the yeast is kept separate from > the rest of the ingredients in the Panasonic until kneading time. Perhaps > it heats itself to optimal yeast-growing temperature before adding > the yeast? I don't know. But I think this is a superior method, > especially for me since I like to tell the thing to start 4 hours after > I go to bed, and I don't trust the yeast and water together in the DAK > for 4 hours before kneading. Well, when I tried it, the bread was n.g. Interesting. WHere does the Panasonic keep the yeast? DAK's suggestion of putting the yeast in first, followed by flour, followed by liquid, has worked fine for me. 3/4 of the loaves we've made have been done with a 4+ hr delay, and for the first few months it worked great. It was only after a couple of months that it started making gooey bread. > Also, the little blade in the DAK whirs continuously once the thing is > activated. For the first five minutes or so in the Panasonic, the blade > spins a bit and stops a bit. I think this probably is a better simulation > of human kneading. Just seems more logical to me. I don't think this would really make a difference, as long as you don't abuse the dough or work it so hard that it overheats or something. Even with the dough blade running constantly, most of the dough isn't getting kneaded constantly anyway. So I think overall it's probably no problem. It usually seems to work OK. Gary fritz@hpfclp.sde.hp.com ------------------------------ From: bellas@gamma.tti.com (Bellas) Subject: Recipes - French and Light Wheat Here are a couple of recipes that have always come out good for me. Modified French Bread. 3 cups bread flour 2 1/2 - 3 tsps yeast (one package is 2 1/2) 1 1/2 tsp salt 2 1/2 tsp sugar 1 tbl butter 1 1/2 cups warm water + 2 tbls I have made this in both the Welbilt (DAK) units and the Hitachi. Use the French setting on Welbilts and the "regular" on Hitachi. Light Wheat Bread 2 cups bread Flour 1 cup wheat flour 2 1/2 - 3 tsps yeast 1 1/2 tsp salt 1 1/2 tbl sugar 1 1/2 tbl dry milk power 1 1/2 tbl butter 1 1/2 cups warm water - 2 tbl * Pete Bellas "Cogito ergo spud" * * Citicorp/TTI I think therefore I yam. * * Santa Monica, CA * * Path:{philabs|csun|psivax}!ttidca!bellas or bellas@ttidca.tti.com * ------------------------------ End of bread Digest [Volume 1 Issue 17] *************************************** bread Digest Saturday, 19 Jan 1991 Volume 1 : Issue 18 Today's Topics: The DAK machine (Kami Olsson-Tapp @day) Question (Robin Rosenberg) ------------------------------------------------------------ From: m2xenix!uunet!telesoft!kami (Kami Olsson-Tapp @day) Subject: The DAK machine I have had my DAK/Welbilt machine for a year now and bake bread at least once a week. There are a few things I have noticed: 1) Putting a piece of tinfoil in the dome makes for a much better crust on the top. It also saves on cleanup when my bread over-rises. This was recommended by Consumer Reports in their comparisons of the machines. 2) DAK doesn't remember its customers. I got a copy of the "Gourmet Gazette" with the new recipes from a friend who just got his DAK -- DAK claimed I was on the list but I have never gotten anything from them since I ordered the machine. 3) Breads with lots of sugar do better on the "sweet bread" setting or with the knob turned all the way down. If I use more than 2 teaspoons of sugar/honey/brown sugar it will burn otherwise. The DAK "Golden Egg" bread recipe is almost as good and doesn't burn when you cut the sugar in half and turn the knob to light. 4) Bread is much better when baked right away and warm liquid is used rather than using the timer (especially in the winter -- this did not matter as much last summer). 5) The bread is texture changes when it rains or is humid. I almost always get a concave top when it rains. 6) Oat Blead flour is wonderful. I like to use 1.5 cups better for bread, 1.5 cups oat blend, yeast, 1 t sugar (brown, white or honey), 1 T butter, 1/2 t salt and 1.25 cups warm water. 7) I get yeast in 1 pound bags from a restaurant supply house ("Smart and Final"). For Fleischmanns or Red Start I user 1.5 teaspoons. For Fermipan I use 1 teaspoon. I pay about $2/lb and it lasts a long time. 8) Heavy breads (e.g., Anadama) come out gooey in the center. 9) 1/2c instant mashed potatoes added to white or oat bread make it moister and make the little bit that is left better the next day. I put the flakes in below the flour if I am using the timer. Keep those ideas coming .... ------------------------------ From: robinr@pyrxbooter.pyramid.com (Robin Rosenberg) Subject: question Has anyone made rolls or "specialty breads" like challah in the bread machine? I'm trying out DAK's challah recipe today, but ideally I'd like to be able to take it out after the kneading, braid it, and throw it in the regular oven. Has anyone done anything like this? Any ideas on how long it would take to completely knead the dough, and how long I'd need to bake it in the oven? (Does the DAK recipe work ok for this, or is there something better I should use?) Thanks much. Robin Rosenberg (robinr@pyramid.com, or {sun|uunet|decwrl}!pyramid!robinr ------------------------------ End of bread Digest [Volume 1 Issue 18] *************************************** bread Digest Thursday, 24 Jan 1991 Volume 1 : Issue 19 Today's Topics: Kami's comments (Gary Fritz) recipes by weight (John Whitmore) ------------------------------------------------------------ From: Gary Fritz Subject: Kami's comments Thanks, Kami, for your excellent suggestions! A few comments/questions: > 1) Putting a piece of tinfoil in the dome makes for a much > better crust on the top. It also saves on cleanup when > my bread over-rises. This was recommended by Consumer > Reports in their comparisons of the machines. INSIDE the dome? Interesting. I'm pretty sure the person at Welbilt suggested putting it ON the dome... presumably to reflect heat back in. I'll miss being able to see the dough inside, but I think your suggestion makes more sense. I'll give it a try. > 4) Bread is much better when baked right away and warm liquid is used > rather than using the timer (especially in the winter -- this did > not matter as much last summer). > 5) The bread's texture changes when it rains or is humid. I almost always > get a concave top when it rains. These comments make me wonder if some of my "gooey center" problem is caused by weather changes. For the first month or two the machine made great bread 2 or 3 times a week, but by December it was turning out gooey gunk. I wonder if the winter temperature and/or humidity could be the culprit? I suspect overnight bread would have particularly bad problems, since my setback thermostat lowers the temp to about 55-60F at night. But lately all my bread has had gooey centers even when I started the machine right away during the day. Has anyone experimented with salvaging gooey bread? I.e. cutting off a slice, discovering it's gooey, and tossing it in the oven a while to finish? Would this work at all, and if so, would it only work if you did it before the bread cooled? > 6) Oat Blend flour is wonderful. How so? Taste, texture, ? Speaking of which, we made an oatmeal bread based on the DAK recipe and threw in some walnuts. It was good, but it had sort of a "powdery" texture to it. The recipe calls for regular non-instant oatmeal, but we used "quick" oatmeal because that's what we had on hand. We ground it up in a blender like the recipe specified. Would it work better to use regular non-instant oatmeal? > 8) Heavy breads (e.g., Anadama) come out gooey in the center. The heaviest I've made was the Onion Pecan bread in the DAK book. Which was wonderful, by the way! It was heavy enough that it, and a bottle of red wine, made our dinner one night. :-) But it's not an incredibly dense loaf. It sounds like there's no way to make dense bread in the DAK/Welbilt. Oh well... Gary ------------------------------ From: John Whitmore Subject: recipes by weight I've had a Welbilt bread machine for about four months now, and have gone through about 55 pounds of flour (i.e. a loaf every two or three days). I had expected the machine to be a net money sink (at a loaf a week, for $0.20 instead of $1), but the calculation has to be amended. Since my daily requirements are about 2500 kcal, and at 296 kcal per 100g of bread, I've got 100,000 of the 300,000 calories I've eaten this last season from bread. That means the bread machine has supplanted about 1/3 of my diet (which is ALL more expensive foods). If you don't mind stuffing the machine before you go to sleep, you can save a lot of money baking your own bread. The actual price of white bread is around $0.18/loaf; flour is $3.80/25# and yeast $3.19/2# at the local cost club. Raisin bread is double the price. Using individual foil-packed yeast doses would add an extra $0.25 per loaf. Okay, I DO like fresh bread (perhaps inordinately so), and maybe it will get monotonous after a while... but maybe not. In the meanwhile, here's an easy way to guarantee reliable results from the machine. I got a balance (Ohaus Autogram 1000) that weighs up to 1 kg, with 0.1g accuracy, and have been weighing all the ingredients. Careful cooks do this routinely (my sources assure me), and it's much more reliable than the usual volume measures. My balance was $10 at Salvation Army, but new ones (from Edmund Scientific) cost circa $140. In case anyone wants to do the same, here is the Welbilt set of recipes with gram-equivalents (reprinted without permission from Welbilt 'The Bread Machine' pamphlet, which seems not to be copyrighted in any way.) These recipes are for the glass dome-top model, like the DAK unit. White Bread 6 g 2.25 tsp yeast Welbilt 'The Bread Machine' 450 g 3 c bread flour white bread cycle 7 g 1.5 tsp salt 13 g 1.5 tbsp sugar 12 g 1.5 tbsp powdered milk 15 g 4.5 tsp shortening or butter 300 g 1.5 c less 3 tbsp warm water Raisin Bread 7 g 2.5 tsp yeast Welbilt 'The Bread Machine' 450 g 3 c bread flour white bread cycle 7 g 1.5 tsp salt 26 g 3 tbsp sugar 12 g 1.5 tbsp powdered milk 5 g 2 tsp cinnamon 15 g 4.5 tsp shortening or butter 300 g 1.5 c less 3 Tbsp warm water after secondary kneading (1 hr 37 min) when beeper sounds 125 g 0.75 c raisins added to dough; bread done 2 hr 45 min later ** original recipe was 3.4g (1.5 tsp) cinnamon and 85 g (0.5 c) raisins; I insist on extra raisins, and Gail(enochson@maven.u.washington.edu) insists on extra cinnamon. Wheat Bread 7 g 2.5 tsp yeast Welbilt 'The Bread Machine' 188 g 2.25 c bread flour white bread cycle 132 g 0.75 c whole wheat flour 7 g 1.5 tsp salt 13 g 1.5 tbsp sugar 12 g 1.5 tbsp powdered milk 15 g 4.5 tsp shortening or butter 300 g 1.5 c less 3 tbsp water Rye Bread 7 g 2.5 tsp yeast Welbilt 'The Bread Machine' 188 g 2.25 c bread flour white bread cycle 115 g 0.75 c medium rye flour 7 g 1.5 tsp salt 13 g 1.5 tbsp sugar 12 g 1.5 tbsp powdered milk 4 g 1.5 tsp caraway seeds 15 g 4.5 tsp shortening or butter 300 g 1.5 c less 3 tbsp water French Bread 7 g 2.5 tsp yeast Welbilt 'The Bread Machine' 450 g 3 c bread flour French bread cycle 5 g 1 tsp salt 4 g 1.5 tsp sugar 5 g 1.5 tsp shortening or butter 335 g 1.5 c water ** originally 7 g (1.5 tsp) salt and 360 g (1.5 + 2 tbsp) water, which is excessive (too much water => loaf too dense) Sweet Bread 5.5g 2 tsp yeast Welbilt 'The Bread Machine' 308 g 2 c plus 1 tbsp bread flour sweet bread cycle 3.5g 0.75 tsp salt 45 g 5 tbsp sugar 12 g 1.5 tbsp powdered milk 15 g 1.5 tbsp shortening or butter 167 g 0.75 c plus 2 tbsp water 1 large egg Panettone 7 g 2.5 tsp yeast Welbilt 'The Bread Machine' 308 g 2 c plus 1 tbsp bread flour sweet bread cycle 3.5g 0.75 tsp salt 24 g 3 tbsp powdered milk 45 g 5 tbsp sugar 167 g 0.75 c plus 2 tbsp water 5 tbsp butter 1 medium egg 0.75 tsp vanilla extract after 2 hrs, beeper sounds; add 0.5 c raisins, soaked in water or warm water 3 tbsp candied orange peel pieces bread ready 2 hr 45 min later Croissants 7 g 2.5 tsp yeast Welbilt 'The Bread Machine' 450 g 3 c bread flour French bread MANUAL cycle 7 g 1.5 tsp salt 22 g 2.5 tbsp sugar 5 g 1.5 tsp shortening or butter 280 g 1.25 c water after 2 hr 2 min, beeper sounds remove dough, flatten and place in freezer (1 hr) in a greased pan; roll out the chilled dough, cover with butter slices and roll to incorporate 170 g 1.5 sticks chilled butter, thinly sliced Chill in freezer for 1 hour Fold dough in thirds, roll lightly, and chill in refrigerator for 2 hours Roll until 1/8" thick; cut into triangles; brush with beaten egg 1 large egg, beaten and roll from base to tip of triangle; form horn shape and let rise covered with a cloth in a warm place. When doubled in size, brush with remaining egg and bake in preheated oven, until golden brown Table Rolls 6 g 2.25 tsp yeast Welbilt 'The Bread Machine' 450 g 3 c bread flour White bread Manual cycle 7 g 1.5 tsp salt 13 g 1.5 tbsp sugar 12 g 1.5 tbsp dried skim milk 15 g 4.5 tsp shortening or butter 230 g 1 c plus 1/2 tbsp warm water 1 large egg After 1 hr, 37 min, the machine will beep; remove dough and form into 12 equal balls; let rise on greased pan for 30 min. Form balls into teardrop shape and roll until 1/8" thick; roll up strip, starting at wide end. Let rise 50 min. Brush rolls with beaten egg/water mixture 1 large egg, beaten (for glaze) with water Bake in preheated 375 F oven until golden brown Happy Baking! John Whitmore ------------------------------ End of bread Digest [Volume 1 Issue 19] *************************************** bread Digest Saturday, 26 Jan 1991 Volume 1 : Issue 20 Today's Topics: Gooey center (Bruce M. Binder) Sourdough Bread (Susan) Re: Gooey center (Kami Olsson-Tapp @day) ------------------------------------------------------------ From: bruceb@lccsd.sd.locus.com (Bruce M. Binder) Subject: Gooey center Breadsters: > These comments make me wonder if some of my "gooey center" problem > is caused by weather changes. For the first month or two the > machine made great bread 2 or 3 times a week, but by December it > was turning out gooey gunk. I wonder if the winter temperature > and/or humidity could be the culprit? I suspect overnight bread > would have particularly bad problems, since my setback thermostat > lowers the temp to about 55-60F at night. But lately all my bread > has had gooey centers even when I started the machine right away > during the day. I had a similar situation. I have posted in the past asking about gooey centers, but I neglected to mention that the first few times with the same recipes, the loaves came out fine. I don't think it was quite winter when I started getting gooey centers. I wonder if somehow the machine is at fault. Maybe the heating element doesn't get as hot. Maybe the seals that keep in the heat are not working as efficiently. I think we should collectively try to figure this one out before our warranties expire. > > 8) Heavy breads (e.g., Anadama) come out gooey in the center. > The heaviest I've made was the Onion Pecan bread in the DAK book. > Which was wonderful, by the way! It was heavy enough that it, and > a bottle of red wine, made our dinner one night. :-) But it's not > an incredibly dense loaf. It sounds like there's no way to make > dense bread in the DAK/Welbilt. Oh well... I made a loaf of Oat Bran Wheat bread from a DAK recipe. The directions warn that the loaf hardly rises and is about four pounds when finished. It is true; the loaf was "incredibly dense" (and not too appetizing IMHO). My point is it was cooked all the way through with no gooey center. This was in the first few weeks I had the machine. I have not tried this recipe recently. I will post more as I know more. ___ __ __ ___ ( ,)( \/ )( ,) Bruce M. Binder (619) 587-0511 ) ,\ ) ( ) ,\ Locus Computing Corporation bruceb@locus.com (___/(_/\/\_)(___/ San Diego, California ...!ucsd!lccsd!bruceb ------------------------------ From: smack@aerospace.aero.org Subject: Sourdough Bread Hi Fellow Breadmakers! Have any of you experimented with sourdough bread in your machines?? My all time favorite bread (well, after raisin) is sourdough but I haven't seen any recipes adapted for the makers. Anyone have a recipe or any ideas for adapting a regular one? Never having made one the regular way, I am a little leery of experimenting without some advice. I have a Hitachi, which I love. I haven't had many problem -no gooey bread centers; just some that rose too high and bumped the top. My only complaint is the lack of recipes that came with it, and the few that it has don't call for enough yeast. My friend, who has a DAK, loaned me her recipe book and I have tried many. My favorites are the Maple-Oatmeal and Onion-Dill; the worst was one of the dense oatmeal breads with the heart by it. It would have broken my foot if it had fallen on me. Thanks, and happy Breadmaking! Susan aka smack@aerospace.aero.org ------------------------------ From: uunet!telesoft!kami (Kami Olsson-Tapp @day) Subject: Re: bread Digest V1 #19 (Gooey centers) Answers for Gary: > Has anyone experimented with salvaging gooey bread? I.e. cutting off > a slice, discovering it's gooey, and tossing it in the oven a while > to finish? Would this work at all, and if so, would it only work > if you did it before the bread cooled? You could try slicing it an baking it into toast rusks. I believe that if you were going to put it back into the oven, you would need to do it right away without letting it cool. > > 6) Oat Blend flour is wonderful. > How so? Taste, texture, ? Speaking of which, we made an oatmeal bread > based on the DAK recipe and threw in some walnuts. It was good, > but it had sort of a "powdery" texture to it. The recipe calls for regular > non-instant oatmeal, but we used "quick" oatmeal because that's what we had > on hand. We ground it up in a blender like the recipe specified. > Would it work better to use regular non-instant oatmeal? Oat Blend flour has great flavor and a nice texture -- it is not as dense as whole wheat flour (the one whole wheat loaf I tried using the basic DAK recipe came out like a "healthy hockey puck"). It is a General Mills flour and is available in San Diego in 2 and 5 pound sacks. Try the DAK recipe oat again, but let the machine grind the oats -- we have done this with great success. You can also add more oats at the beeps before fermentation to get some extra texture and a denser bread. ------------------------------ End of bread Digest [Volume 1 Issue 20] *************************************** bread Digest Wednesday, 30 Jan 1991 Volume 1 : Issue 21 Today's Topics: Sourdough starters (JOEL MOZER) Golden Sesame Loaves (forwarded) (R.K. Wright) DAK & whole wheat (Bill Stoll) ------------------------------------------------------------ From: JOEL MOZER Subject: Sourdough starters I've been meaning to pass along a few of my sourdough bread recipes for some time. Now that someone has asked, I guess that its about time to do it. Here is how I made my starter: 1 cup water 1 cup flour 4 tablespoons milk (or buttermilk) 2 tablespoons sugar Combine all ingredients in a glass bowl and allow to stand in a warm place for a few days (or maybe a week). The starter will smell wonderfully sour and be about the consistancy of pancake batter when the fermentation gets going. To feed my starter, I always add equal parts of milk and flour along with a "scoop" of sugar (about 1/4 cup per cup of milk and flour). I find that it is the sugar that really determines how quickly the starter recovers after a feeding. Sourdough French Bread: 1 cups "proofed" sourdough batter 1 1/2 tablespoons dry yeast 1/2 cup tepid water 2 teaspoons sugar 1/2 teaspoon salt 3 cups all-purpose flour Make the batter the night before. This is done by taking 3/4 cups of the starter and adding 3/4 cup flour and 1/2 cup warm water and letting it sit out overnight. What is not used the next morning, can be tossed back into the starter. To finish the job, just toss all of the ingredients into the machine and enjoy. (Note: I usually use the "french bread" setting on my Welbuilt, but I don't think it is critical.) Sourdough Chili Bread: This one combines three of my favorite things: sourdough, chiles, and my bread machine. Make the dough as above, adding two 4-oz. cans of chopped chiles (or better yet fresh chiles). I also like this recipe made into about a dozen rolls. Sourdough Pancakes: This one isn't made in the bread machine, but it is the best use of sourdough that I know of. These are the ones my grandmother made me when I was young, so I may be a little biased. 1 cup sourdough batter (I don't proof this one) 1/3 cup oil 1 c flour 1 egg 1/2 teaspoon baking soda 1/2 teaspoon salt 2 teaspoon baking powder 1 cup milk Combine the ingredients with a plain old mixer and spoon by 1/4 cupfulls onto a hot pan (I don't put any grease in my pan, but Pam helps if it isn't non-stick). ------------------------------ From: rkw@love1.ftl.fl.us (R.K. Wright MD) Subject: OVO-LACTO: Golden Sesame Loaves (for bread machine) (forwarded) [ This was from rec.food.recipies. I'll forward bread machine recipies as I see them - Jeff ] >From: rkw@love1.ftl.fl.us (R.K. Wright MD) >Newsgroups: rec.food.recipes >Subject: OVO-LACTO: Golden Sesame Loaves (for bread machine) >Organization: Hunt and Wright's Home Below is your recipe modified for the Hitachi. Thanks. [adapted from a recipe on the back of a Pillsbury Flour package] [originally by Andrew Mossberg...modified for Home bakery machine] Golden Sesame Loaves 1/2 cup water 2 Tbs. butter 1/4 cup honey 1 egg 2 cups bread flour 1 Tbs instant dry milk 1/2 cup toasted sesame seed 1 1/2 tsp. salt 2 Tbs. sugar 1 1/2 tsp. active dry yeast Put liquid ingredients into bread maker. Come back in 4.3 hours and take it out. ------------------------------ From: wws@cblph.att.com Subject: DAK & whole wheat > ... > Interesting. WHere does the Panasonic keep the yeast? DAK's suggestion > of putting the yeast in first, followed by flour, followed by liquid, > has worked fine for me. 3/4 of the loaves we've made have been done with > a 4+ hr delay, and for the first few months it worked great. It was only > after a couple of months that it started making gooey bread. > ... > > Gary > fritz@hpfclp.sde.hp.com The Panasonic has a little compartment on top with a little hatch. You put the yeast in there, and it feeds the yeast to the inside at the appropriate moment. I did follow DAK's suggestion of yeast, flour, liquid in the loaves I tried. From following the discussion here, I think my problem is that the DAK machine simply can't handle 100% whole wheat flour. Unfortunately, I prefer not to use white flour in my breads. Since I was able to use 100% whole wheat flour in the Panasonic, I figured the DAK was inferior in this regard, and have been trying to guess what the problem is. If it's not the yeast feed or the way the blade constantly spins in the DAK, maybe it's the size of the DAK or the proportions I used in my recipes? Has anyone used the DAK to make 100% whole wheat bread with any success? Bill Stoll att!cblph!wws ------------------------------ End of bread Digest [Volume 1 Issue 21] *************************************** bread Digest Wednesday, 6 Feb 1991 Volume 1 : Issue 22 Today's Topics: Hello (Martha J. Underwood) Hitachi HB101 (Mary Lindstrom) ------------------------------------------------------------ From: "Martha J. Underwood" Subject: Hello Hi, I am new to this list and I have a request. I recently got a Welbilt Bread machine (the domed one) and I have completely lost the DAK book with the various recipes. How can I get one? I am interested in any sort of recipes for breads both quick and yeasted. Thanks in advance. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Martha Underwood Blessed Be mu10@andrew.cmu.edu ------------------------------ From: lindstro@stat.wisc.edu (Mary Lindstrom) Subject: Hitachi HB101 I too just bought an Hitachi (model HB-B101) at the local warehouse store for $179. The reason they are showing up for this price may be that Hitachi has brought out a new model (HB-B201?). I saw it in a cooking store for $289. I think the only difference is that the new model has two extra settings: steamed rice and jam. The jam idea was intriguing but not worth the extra $110 to me. I have tried my new toy only once because our kitchen is in the demolition phase of a remodel project and even finding the flour was a major accomplishment. The bread was wonderful. The positive comments I read on this list about the Hitachi helped me decide on it. The only negative about the Hitachi (so far) is that the selection of baking cycles does not include one with an extra long rise (called French on some of the other machines I think). I decided I could get along without this by using the dough cycle and controlling the length of the second rise myself when I wanted to make this kind of bread. Not perfect but an ok compromise. A minor annoyance is the rather uneven manual. Some of the stuff was not edited by an accomplished user of the English language. It can also be hard to find specific information that you want. However there is a great table listing problems with bread and probable causes/solutions. (Sorry - no mention of gooey centers). The manuals do not include many recipes but instead encourage you to experiment. They suggest weighing ingredients for more accuracy and give suggested dry to wet ingredient ratios for best results when adapting other recipes. This seems like a very reasonable approach since the marginal time and money cost of a failed experimental loaf of bread is minimal. (BTW does anyone have a good guess as to the cost for the electricity to make a loaf?) Before I ran across the Hitachi on sale I had been gathering info from the net and other sources on which machine to buy. The following is for others who are still trying to decide. These are the reasons I didn't choose the other machines: Welbilt/DAK Problems with Welbilt/DAK making consistent bread (described on this mailing list). The window on the Welbilt/DAK effecting the browning of the crust mentioned here and in Consumer Reports). Pan which must be in machine when filled Round loaf (Note that I am not sure that all of these comments apply to all machines made by Welbilt/DAK) Maxima Accu-bakery Price ($350+ at kitchen stores) Panasonic/National 1 and 1.5 lb sizes No cool down cycle. I thought this was important because I didn't want to have to be there exactly when it finishes (see Consumer Reports article). Price ($250+) Regal Never saw it offered for sale (I saw it referred to on the net only). Is it the same thing as the Maxima Accu-bakery? - ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Here is a description of the Hitachi. Maybe others would be willing to post a similar description of their machines? There seems to be a lot of interest out there about the differences between the machines. It might also be interesting to do a survey of the mailing list about how the bread actually comes out. Hitachi HB-B101 Design - Has very small glass window in lid. This shouldn't cause browning problems like in the Welbilt/DAK but it also pretty much requires a flashlight to see in. Has lid which can be removed Pan can be filled outside of the machine. Does not have yeast compartment. Washability - Pan must be washed by hand. (I assume that this is because it includes some moving parts on the underside which have lubricant) Rest of machine looks pretty cleanable with a damp cloth. Loaves - Square, Upright 3 different sizes of loaves (7.1 oz, 14 oz, 1.3 lb (1,2, and 3 cup)). I have no idea how it does this. You do not tell the machine what size loaf you are making. Baking options - Table entries are in minutes. The manual says the times vary depending on the temperature. Pre-knead | Rest | | Knead | | | First rise | | | | Punch down | | | | | Second rise | | | | | | Bake | | | | | | | Finish | | | | | | | | bread 7 5 16-24 60-70 0.3 70 53-60 20-31 rapid bread 7 5 16-24 15 0.3 45 55 20-28 Dough 7 5 16-24 64-72 -------------------- mix bread same as bread The mix bread is only different in that the machine beeps 3 times approx. 25 minites after starting to tell you that it is time to add things like raisins and nuts. 3 browning choices (light, med, dark). I don't know if these vary the baking time or the temp or something else. Timer for delayed bake up to 13 hours. Misc - has lock button which keeps you from reprogramming it when it is in the middle of making bread (you can "unlock" it at any time) Gives error codes for power interrupts of more than 10 min (How does it know?) or if you try to start the machine when the baking chamber is too cold or too hot. Mary Lindstrom lindstro@stat.wisc.edu ------------------------------ End of bread Digest [Volume 1 Issue 22] *************************************** bread Digest Sunday, 10 Feb 1991 Volume 1 : Issue 23 Today's Topics: Some Ideas (Martha Underwood) recipes for bread maker (Xuelei N. Hua) what else - bread (Stephan Poole) ------------------------------------------------------------ From: "Martha J. Underwood" Subject: Some Ideas I've just finished reading all the past articles and digests and I have a few ideas: First a bit of background. I got a Welbilt dome for Christmas at a department store. I spent $188 and it was on sale. Since the DAK model would have taken 2 months to arrive I was willing to pay the extra. Since then I've only made 3 loves of bread (a fourth is in the works) and all have been good. I've had only the Welbilt booklet to work with and I made: white, french and white (in that order) The first white was good, about like I'd make myself, but the crust was tough and undercooked. The french was good, I'd turned up the heat a bit and again we had tough crust and a bit burned. The second white was excellent. Considering I made it on Saturday, things went crazy and we did not eat it until monday night. Even then only a few bites. The difference? I used bread flour instead of all purpose. I could not believe the difference it made! The bread had the bakery texture and aroma and had little of the heavyness I associate with homemade bread. I'd bought the bread flour just to see if it would help, IT DOES! Now, we'll see how the french bread does. :-) If my machine starts giving me soggy centers in a while I'd suspect the machine is mis-designed and we should all contact the company (in one letter) 20-40 people all making the same complaint should turn their heads! Thanks all. Oh, where can I get the DAK booklet? I've lost mine. (we were shipped one once, before we even had a machine!) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Martha Underwood Blessed Be mu10@andrew.cmu.edu ------------------------------ From: "Xuelei N. Hua" Subject: recipes for bread maker Hi, I just bought a Welkilt bread maker. I tried french bread and it did not rise enough, I don't know why. Can you give me some advise? And also it came with only a few recipes, I am interest in to get more recipes. Would you please add my name to your mailing list? I appreciate that very much. My address is "xnhst2@unix.cis.pitt.edu" Thanks. Shirley Hua 2/6/91 ------------------------------ From: poole@eniac.seas.upenn.edu (Stephan Poole) Subject: what else - bread Hello everyone, I am new to this group and just wanted to say hello. My name is Stephan Poole and I am student at the University of Pennsylvania. An engineering student with a lust for cooking and more recently with baking. I'm still novice when it comes to bread but I love doing it anyway for reasons I am sure you understand. So, recently I had some delicious 7-grain bread. I have never tried making this and would like to know if there are any REALLY good recipes out there. Thanks. I look forward to hearing from you. - -Stephan (poole@eniac.seas.upenn.edu) ------------------------------ End of bread Digest [Volume 1 Issue 23] *************************************** bread Digest Wednesday, 13 Feb 1991 Volume 1 : Issue 24 Today's Topics: Note from Jeff (Jeff Beadles) Graham Flour bread recipe (Robin Rosenberg) Hitachi Bread Maker-Got it! (Ardy Kong) Recipe: Oven-baked dinner rolls (Sean Cleary) ------------------------------------------------------------ From: jeff@onion.rain.com (Jeff Beadles) Subject: A note from Jeff... Just a note to let people know where the bread mailing list stands. Currently there are 102 people directly on the list. Several sites send the list to multiple users. Whew! It's growing by an average 2-3 users a day currently. Issue 25 will be the last in volume 1. I'll start up with volume2 issue 1 after the next issue. Happy bread-making, -Jeff - -- Jeff Beadles jeff@onion.rain.com ------------------------------ From: robinr@pyrxbooter.pyramid.com (Robin Rosenberg) Subject: Graham Flour bread recipe Has anyone tried the Graham flour bread recipe that's in the DAK book? I tried it for the first time a few days ago, and it was the closest thing to concrete I've ever seen come out of the bread machine. Completely inedible. I almost had to chisel it to break it apart. Has anyone else tried this recipe? (Did I do something really wrong? I *thought* I remembered to put everything in!) Robin ------------------------------ From: ardyk@tc.fluke.COM (Ardy Kong) Subject: Hitachi Bread Maker-Got it! I finally got my Hitachi Bread Maker (with my raincheck from before Christmas). I made a 'small' loaf of the basic bread receipe from the Hitachi recipe book. It turned out fine. My next loaf ('medium') is going to be wheat, raisins, and pecans (a combination of Hitachi receipes). I'd like to make my bread less salty. Anybody have any ideas what percent one can cut down on the salt and still have the bread turn out right?? Ardy ------------------------------ From: Sean Cleary Subject: Recipe: Oven-baked dinner rolls - ----- Recipe for oven-baked dinner rolls: 1 pkg yeast 3 1/4 cup French white flour 1 T gluten 1 T sugar 2 t salt 1 1/4 c warm water set machine (Welbilt R2D2 model) on french bread, manual form dough into 6 or so blobs bake at 375 deg F with either a pan of water in the oven or a bit of water splashed on top of the blobs. - ----- Experiences with gluten: We've got "Natural Wheat Gluten" which we add to the flour. Too much leads to bread that is too elastic but other than that, we've been very happy with it. Gluten makes the bread lighter and less dense. It takes about 1 t per cup of flour, especially whole wheat flour, to have a nice texture and density. - -Sean. Sean Cleary 3915e Math Sci;UCLA Dept Math; 405 Hilgard Ave LA CA 90024 scleary@math.ucla.edu UUCP: !{ucsd,ames,rutgers,uunet}!math.ucla.edu!scleary ------------------------------ End of bread Digest [Volume 1 Issue 24] *************************************** bread Digest Friday, 15 Feb 1991 Volume 1 : Issue 25 Today's Topics: Honey Whole Wheat Bread (Rick Turley) Flour types (Mary Lindstrom) Corn Bread (Bellas) Cheese Bread (Bellas) RE: Sourdough Bread.... ------------------------------------------------------------ From: Rick Turley Subject: Honey Whole Wheat Bread As a new subscriber to this newsletter, I thought I'd better pay my dues. Here's a Honey Whole Wheat recipie direct from Welbuilt. I've tried it a half dozen times and it's the only recipie I have that's come out perfect every time. It has a really nice crisp crust. Ingredients 1.5 lb. Loaf 1 lb. Loaf ----------- ---------- ------------ Yeast 1 pkg 1.5 tsp. Bread Flour 2 cups 1 1/3 cups Whole Wheat Flour 1 cup 2/3 cup Salt 2 tsp 1 1/2 tsp Cool Butter 1 T 2 tsp Honey (80 deg) 1/4 cup 6 tsp Milk (80 deg) 1 cup 1/3 cup Water (80 deg) 1/3 cup 1/3 cup Egg (room temp) 1 large (2 oz.) 1 large (2 oz.) I usually add 1 T of water for the 1 lb. loaf and find that it works perfectly. This recipie came as a teaser to join the "Welbilt/Red Star Recipie Club." I did join ($14.99) and am supposed to recive 15 recipies every three months for a total of 60 recipies. I'll post as many as I can as I receive them. I you'd like to join yourself the address is: [[ As of 1995 this offer was no longer available.]] [[ I deleted this address. -- Reggie, 1996]] They'll send you a yeast thermometer and a recipie file too. Now I have a question for you all..... My other bread all tend to "fall" during baking. I've tried cutting back on the yeast substantially and all I end up with is a short loaf that falls. Any ideas? Thank you all for your previous good information in this newsletter. Rick Turley ------------------------------ From: lindstro@stat.wisc.edu (Mary Lindstrom) Subject: flour types Hello - Does anyone out there know of a mail order source for gluten? I have not had any luck with finding bread flour. Also, it seems that some people substitute self-rising flour for bread flour. Does this work? As I understand it self-rising flour contains baking powder and is more appropriate for non yeast breads. And one last question, I do have a local source for semolina flour (hard wheat flour for making pasta) can this be substituted for bread flour or is the grind different? ------------------------------ From: bellas@gamma.tti.com (Bellas) Subject: Corn Bread Pete's "Great with Chili" Corn Bread 2 3/4 cups bread flour 1 cup yellow cornmeal 1 cup whole kernal corn 1 egg 1 tbl butter 1 1/2 tsp salt 2 tbl sugar 1 tbl honey 1 1/4 cups warm water At our chili cookoff we went through 3 loaves of this in about 10 minutes! -Pete- * Pete Bellas "Cogito ergo spud" * * Citicorp/TTI I think therefore I yam. * * Santa Monica, CA * * Path:{philabs|csun|psivax}!ttidca!bellas or bellas@ttidca.tti.com * ------------------------------ From: bellas@gamma.tti.com (Bellas) Subject: Cheese Bread This is one of the recipes from the DAK book that really come out good. I am sending it for the benifit of those without the book. I have made this in my Welbilt and my sisters Hitachi, both with excellent results. Cheese Bread 3 cups bread flour 1/4 cup dry milk powder 1 tbl butter 1 tsp salt 2 tbl sugar 1 1/4 cups warm water 2 cups (6 oz) cheese (I use medium cheddar) -Pete- * Pete Bellas "Cogito ergo spud" * * Citicorp/TTI I think therefore I yam. * * Santa Monica, CA * * Path:{philabs|csun|psivax}!ttidca!bellas or bellas@ttidca.tti.com * ------------------------------ From: mozer@earth.atmo.arizona.edu Subject: RE: Sourdough Bread.... [ This is email that has been forwarded to the list. -Jeff ] Rick, Glad to hear that you are trying the sourdough. I like the stuff and use it quite a bit. Unfortunately, some of my most favorite recipies aren't made in the bread machine (like pancakes, or sourdough chocolate cake). When my grandmother passed away, I inherited her recipe box full of sourdough recipes. When you get tired of making bread, let me know and I'll pass some along. Anyway, in answer to your questions: > 1) There's no yeast in the starter. Is this right? I've never > seen a starter without yeast. I'm sorry, did I forget to list yeast in the recipe? I did use yeast in my starter (probably one package). Many authors (the "frugal gormet" for example) claim that it is possible to get a starter going without yeast. In this case you are relying on the local airborn yeast to get in your starter. This, I would imagine, is a little more risky than just adding the yeast yourself. I'm told that African "friendship bread" is made in this manner. > 2) What does "proofed" mean? Is it just the process you describe > of adding flour and water the night before? Yes, proofing is just the process of getting your starter active before using it. Some call this "making the sponge." I find it difficult to think about making bread the four hours in advance needed by the bread machine, and almost impossible to think about it a day in advance. I therefore often skip this step. I have a very active starter which starts bubbling away as soon as it gets up to room temperature so it really doesn't make much difference. Some people think that proofing the starter makes the final product taste more sour, but I haven't really noticed a difference. > 3) You call for "all-purpose flour." Is this instead of "bread > flour?" Don't you need the added gluten for this recipie? I've used both types of flour with my sourdough. I never add gluten to the all-purpose flour and it comes out just fine. Your mileage may vary. By the way, I often find myself without any all-purpose flour to feed my starter after making the bread (we go through the stuff pretty fast since getting the machine). In such cases, I just through what ever I have into my starter. If I have the bread flour, it throw it in; if not I put whole wheat flour in. Once I even put rye flour in it. None of these seem to hurt the starter. In fact, it gives it a little more character. In general, I find that it is difficult to kill the starter if you use it often enough (once a week is reccomended). Even if I let mine sit in the refigerator for a long time (more than a month), I have always been able to "revive" it with a good feeding. Sometimes the starter separates with an oily layer on top--I just stir it in. Even if the thing dries up, I can get it going by adding some liquid. I am told however to toss it out if it turns pink or if it starts smelling like terpentine. Well, good luck and happy sourdoughing. Joel Mozer ------------------------------ End of bread Digest [Volume 1 Issue 25] ***************************************